General True Crime Shows

[azshadowwalker]

I have no problem with unresolved cases. As someone who has had the murders of two friends go unsolved for almost two decades, it's more common than the tidy stories that most of the shows do over and over. The very reason for putting unsolved cases on is to try to get information to solve them by putting them in front of a big audience. If people don't talk about unsolved cases, they remain unsolved. That's a bigger problem to me. 

[TaraS1]

I caught a rerun of Dr. Phil on OWN this morning that featured Candi Hall and the other wife from that Dateline episode where Candi's husband Rob murders the other lady's husband, Emmett, because Emmett and Candi were having an affair.  I had no idea they were ever on Dr. Phil, so I hate that I had to miss the second half.  But from the previews, it seemed like Candi was just as bitchy and smug and awful as she was on Dateline.  I will never forget that episode because she was practically gleeful about getting to tell the story of two men fighting over her, like she was auditioning for a soap opera.  I always loved the little twist at the end that she went to prison for fraud or bad checks or something.

[smittykins]

She did, but only served about eighteen months(of a 15-year sentence IIRC).  And I believe it was for embezzling from her employer before Emmett Corrigan.

Edited September 11, 2018 by smittykins

[funky-rat]

I caught the Web Of Lies ep again the other day about Breck Bednar - a 14 year old from the UK.  I had seen part of that one prior, and thought I recorded the rest (I had to go somewhere) but it didn't record for some reason.  I thought there had to be more to the story than what the show let on.  I did some digging, and I am unable to post links here right now, but yeah, there was more to it - the depth of which may never be known.  Lewis Daynes is one seriously messed up individual.  I'm not normally one to applaud lawsuits to police for not doing their job, but Breck's mother was practically screaming from the hilltops that her son was being groomed by an online predator - as recently as 3 weeks before he was killed, and they did nothing.  I was glad to see she got a settlement.  And of course, Daynes' lawyer says it wasn't his fault because he has Asperger's and can't make good judgements.  I know several people with Asperger's.  One just won a buttload of stuff on a game show.  None have ever killed someone.

[Annber03]

Oh, weird you mention that story, 'cause I just finished watching a show on the Reelz channel called "Stalkers Who Kill" that focused on that same case. The way the show discussed it was kinda hokey (they had actors playing Breck and Lewis throughout and having conversations with each other in between the interviews with other people involved with the case), but yeah, they went into way more detail about Lewis' creepy grooming. I've seen that "Web of Lies" episode, too, and they made it sound more like these were two guys who became friends only for that friendship to go horribly wrong. 

It's a very sad, disturbing case indeed, and I share in your frustration with the police.. How often do we hear law enforcement telling parents that they should be more alert to their kids' activity online, and report this stuff? This mom did all the "right" things that parents are told to do in these kinds of situations, from restricting her son's internet access to being literally right at his shoulder when he was online to trying to tell people what was going on. And yet her efforts were in vain. 

[funky-rat]

I'm going to have to see if I can find that Reelz show online.  

[Queena]

Did anyone watch Twisted Sisters? 

[Annber03]

I did. I remember hearing that case on another show on another channel once, but again, I think this one went into a little more detail. Such a sad story.

[Queena]

7 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I did. I remember hearing that case on another show on another channel once, but again, I think this one went into a little more detail. Such a sad story.

It is. The family is really upset. Apparently, there were a few lies told. 

[Annber03]

Oh, really? What kinds of lies are they claiming?

Totally different topic for a moment, but I saw this article today-sounds like a perfect subject for some kind of true crime episode:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/author-apos-murder-husband-apos-084531800.html

[Sile]

On 9/4/2018 at 3:19 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

Well, I watched an episode of Twisted Sisters on ID last night and it was rather amusing. I never did see or hear Khloe Kardashian, so that was a blessing. I think she's the executive producer.....lol, whatever. I try to put that out of my mind. 

 The one last night was about two sisters who murdered and attempted to murder innocent people, mostly family members, because they believed this 9 year-old child (son to one sister) spoke to angels and told them to do it, really for no reason. (1989) Very bizarre.  And, I think she's still in prison.  No remorse at all.   One survivor was the sister's brother, who survived being shot and the man's little baby.  Two year old shot while in his highchair. Survived, but, paralyzed. His mother was killed, as well as another man, who just happened to be in the wrong place. 

I didn't watch it, but what you describe doesn't sound very amusing.  You use that word a lot in this thread and I don't get it.  I'm really not trying to hammer you, but just wondering if your definition of the word is different than the standard meaning?

Quote

I saw one of the several documentaries on the Ramsey case when they came out last year (all around the same time).  I watched one, but not the other ones.  I must have skipped the one you reference.  I was honestly burned out on that case, and had seen so many where a ton of different theories were sent around, so I just passed.  The Lou Smit one was from a number of years ago (I'm not confident he's even still alive), but I'll see if I can find it on YouTube.  It was well done.

@funky-rat Lou Smit passed quite a few years ago.  I know that Joe Kenda was also asked to look into the case, but he refused because he said that the case had been so bungled there was no way other than an outright confession that the case could really be solved.  I don't know if he was approached in conjunction with or in addition to Smit.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Sile
spelling

[funky-rat]

9 minutes ago, Sile said:

 

@funky-rat Lou Smit passed quite a few years ago.  I know that Joe Kenda was also asked to look into the case, but he refused because he said that the case had been so bungled there was no way other than an outright confession that the case could really be solved.  I don't know if he was approached in conjunction with or in addition to Smit.

The special that Smit did on TV was a long time ago - he walked through the house and showed how an intruder could have done it (in his opinion).  I don't remember how long.

[Annber03]

35 minutes ago, Sile said:

I know that Joe Kenda was also asked to look into the case, but he refused because he said that the case had been so bungled there was no way other than an outright confession that the case could really be solved. 

Oh, wow, I didn't know that. I totally understand his refusal to get involved-he's absolutely right about the case being bungled. But it would've been interesting to see what his takeaway would've been had he worked that case. I get the feeling if he were on it, it probably would have a better chance of being solved. 

[LuvMyShows]

On 9/13/2018 at 12:48 PM, Sile said:

 I know that Joe Kenda was also asked to look into the case, but he refused because he said that the case had been so bungled there was no way other than an outright confession that the case could really be solved. 

This reminded me of something I've noticed.  Kenda has a low-key straight-forward personality, and Carl Marino portrays him in a somewhat similar way, even though there is almost no physical similarity.  The actor and actress portraying Rod Demery on Murder Chose Me and Lindy Gligorijevic on Killer Closer do a pretty good job too. And there are quite a few others where the actor does a good job portraying the real detective.  But on the new show ATL Homicide (on TV One), with the detectives Vince Velasquez and David Quinn, the actor portraying Velasquez does a great job capturing Vince's personality, but the actor portraying David Quinn is awful at capturing Quinn.  Quinn has swagger and game, but the actor playing him is just very soft-spoken and respectful.  It seems like he must have been cast for a physical resemblance, but I don't think he even has that.  Has anyone else noticed this?

[renatae]

Last night, I rewatched  "The Burning Bed," the true story of Francine Hughes, whose husband savagely beat her all the time. The cops never did anything (it was the 70's) and would only arrest him if they caught him in the act, then they would release him right away. She divorced him at one point, and both her mom and his family gave her grief over it. She wound up going back to him several times, once to nurse him back to health after he was seriously injured in a crash.

Her in-laws lived next door and she would hide there sometimes and sometimes the kids would run over there to call the police when he was beating her. Once he started fighting the police, and in rushed his parents and a brother, yelling and trying to pull the police off him! They constantly made excuses for him and kept pressuring her to return whenever she left him. I wanted to slap them silly! Then during her trial, his mother denied he'd ever hit her or that Francine had ever hidden there. Their denial and enabling were in a class all by themselves.

.

Edited September 16, 2018 by renatae

[walnutqueen]

I'm just settling down to watch "Unspeakable Crime: The Killing of Jessica Chambers" (Oxygen).  Apparently, there's also a 7 part podcast about it, too.  Less than 15 minutes in, and I am HOOKED.  Please don't spoil me if you know how this all turns out!  ;-)

[Brattinella]

Did any of you watch the Inside the Manson Cult last night?  It was surprisingly good (and new video!).  LOTS of never before seen stuff with most members represented.  I've been studying the Manson family for many years, and it was full of new information.  If they show it again, do watch.

[cuppasun]

I watched it, Brattinella. I've been fascinated (morbidly, admittedly) with Manson & followers since reading Helter Skelter decades ago, my first foray into true crime. I'm particularly interested in the last few years in the stories from new or different sources, and found several that were fascinating: Restless Souls: The Sharon Tate Family's Account of Stardom, the Manson Murders, and a Crusade for Justice by Alisa Statman and Brie Tate which was heartbreaking and fascinating; Member of the Family: My Story of Charles Manson, Life Inside His Cult, and the Darkness That Ended the Sixties by Dianne Lake and Deborah Herman (Dianne Lake was one of the earliest and the youngest member of the Family)--I have both of those on audiobooks, and am still listening to the second. There's also a multi-episode run on the podcast You Must Remember This, called Charles Manson's Hollywood (episodes 44-55) that was incredibly well-done and researched, I recommend it wholeheartedly.

Last night's special was pretty cool. I'm always braced for stuff like that to just be sensationally-packaged retreads of the same old available material, but it was truly fascinating and somewhat disturbing to see the footage of Family life and members at the time. I remember reading about Bugliosi's interviews with Paul Watkins, and it was kind of amazing to see so much footage of him at the time. The interviews with Catherine (Gypsy) Share and Dianne Lake were sad and interesting as well. 

There was one thing that stood out to me, and not in a good way--I've been trying to figure out why they did it. In the obligatory retelling of the events of Tate-LaBianca, the special left out even mentioning Linda Kasabian, as if she hadn't been there at all. Even more puzzling, when moving on to the extremely abbreviated recounting of the trial, the only reference to a "star witness" was Dianne Lake, when it was, of course, Kasabian who was the star witness, arguably perhaps the most important witness, as she actually saw the events at Cielo Drive (though didn't participate). I know she has since changed her name and stays out of the public eye, and I don't blame her--but were the filmmakers not allowed to mention her? It seems a very strange omission.

I can't bring myself to delete the show from my Tivo...no idea if it will be repeated, and I suspect I may want to rewatch sometime! : )

[Brattinella]

I'm glad to find a fellow Manson-phile, cuppasun.  I was a teenager when these events occurred, and while not living in the LA area, the group did several forays into my neck of the woods.  I was exactly the right age and disposition then, and it would not have taken much to persuade me to go with them.  I loved going to music festivals and communes, and it was the luck of the draw that our paths didn't cross.  My copy of Helter Skelter is dog-eared, and I think the Steve Railsback movie was the best one ever made on the subject.  This new version gives so much more information, I will probably re-watch it, as well.

[walnutqueen]

I watched, too.  I have some interest in this subject.

Most of you have heard my Mansonite story, (more than once!!!) so you can skip this post; but for the newcomers:

I lived in a barn on 30 wooded acres in the Pacific Northwest (B.C. Canada) my senior year of high school.  My cousin was a biker, and knew one of the Manson snitches who had fled up to our neck of the woods after spilling the dirt to Bugliosi.  That guy lived armed to the teeth in total terror, and for good reason.

One dark night, when I was fortunately entertaining a few friends, there was a knock on my barn door.  Two scary ZZ Top looking guys claimed they'd seen my light from the road (impossible, I was at the back of 30 wooded acres), and wanted to smoke pot with us.  These guys were talking strange, and kept referring to "Charlie" and coming back for another "visit".  I didn't put 2 and 2 together until they left, and one of them remarked how cool my barn walls would look written in blood.

I told my cuz about it the next day, and lived in abject terror until he came back and told me I had nothing to worry about any more.  I knew better than to ask any questions, but I am quite certain my bikers made those Mansonites disappear- forever.

I've had a soft spot for bikers ever since.   They may well have saved my sorry ass.   ;-)

[Brattinella]

1 hour ago, cuppasun said:

There was one thing that stood out to me, and not in a good way--I've been trying to figure out why they did it. In the obligatory retelling of the events of Tate-LaBianca, the special left out even mentioning Linda Kasabian, as if she hadn't been there at all. Even more puzzling, when moving on to the extremely abbreviated recounting of the trial, the only reference to a "star witness" was Dianne Lake, when it was, of course, Kasabian who was the star witness, arguably perhaps the most important witness, as she actually saw the events at Cielo Drive (though didn't participate). I know she has since changed her name and stays out of the public eye, and I don't blame her--but were the filmmakers not allowed to mention her? It seems a very strange omission.

I agree with you that Linda Kasabian had way more involvement (though not responsibility) than Dianne Lake.  I think Linda probably is tired of being referred to at all in this context. 

[Sile]

3 hours ago, cuppasun said:

There was one thing that stood out to me, and not in a good way--I've been trying to figure out why they did it. In the obligatory retelling of the events of Tate-LaBianca, the special left out even mentioning Linda Kasabian, as if she hadn't been there at all. Even more puzzling, when moving on to the extremely abbreviated recounting of the trial, the only reference to a "star witness" was Dianne Lake, when it was, of course, Kasabian who was the star witness, arguably perhaps the most important witness, as she actually saw the events at Cielo Drive (though didn't participate). I know she has since changed her name and stays out of the public eye, and I don't blame her--but were the filmmakers not allowed to mention her? It seems a very strange omission.

I can't bring myself to delete the show from my Tivo...no idea if it will be repeated, and I suspect I may want to rewatch sometime! : )

They also didn't mention Leslie Van Houten at all, other than the footage of her walking down the hall and being included in the "women also got the death penalty" statement and the silent round up at the end.  But no mention of her or being at the LaBianca home (or Kasabian and Atkins, who were along for the ride but left with Manson.

I was surprised to learn that Beausoleil is still in prison.  He's one that you don't hear much about, since he was already out of commission by August.  But he would probably be out by now if he weren't tainted with the Manson association.  He admits his crime, knows it was a mistake and shows remorse.  Lots of murderers don't even get sentenced to more than 20 years or so.  Or has that just been in recent years that murder sentences seem so inadequate?

[callie lee 29]

6 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

I watched, too.  I have some interest in this subject.

Most of you have heard my Mansonite story, (more than once!!!) so you can skip this post; but for the newcomers:

I lived in a barn on 30 wooded acres in the Pacific Northwest (B.C. Canada) my senior year of high school.  My cousin was a biker, and knew one of the Manson snitches who had fled up to our neck of the woods after spilling the dirt to Bugliosi.  That guy lived armed to the teeth in total terror, and for good reason.

One dark night, when I was fortunately entertaining a few friends, there was a knock on my barn door.  Two scary ZZ Top looking guys claimed they'd seen my light from the road (impossible, I was at the back of 30 wooded acres), and wanted to smoke pot with us.  These guys were talking strange, and kept referring to "Charlie" and coming back for another "visit".  I didn't put 2 and 2 together until they left, and one of them remarked how cool my barn walls would look written in blood.

I told my cuz about it the next day, and lived in abject terror until he came back and told me I had nothing to worry about any more.  I knew better than to ask any questions, but I am quite certain my bikers made those Mansonites disappear- forever.

I've had a soft spot for bikers ever since.   They may well have saved my sorry ass.   ;-)

Holy crap, that is terrifying!! I've never once been scared about living in a rural area. Now I'm a little weirded out....

I haven't read to many books on the Manson family, though I've read a lot online. I have found if you check out to many books on serial killers at your local library they start to look at you a little sideways.

[nokat]

13 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

I watched, too.  I have some interest in this subject.

Most of you have heard my Mansonite story, (more than once!!!) so you can skip this post; but for the newcomers:

I lived in a barn on 30 wooded acres in the Pacific Northwest (B.C. Canada) my senior year of high school.  My cousin was a biker, and knew one of the Manson snitches who had fled up to our neck of the woods after spilling the dirt to Bugliosi.  That guy lived armed to the teeth in total terror, and for good reason.

One dark night, when I was fortunately entertaining a few friends, there was a knock on my barn door.  Two scary ZZ Top looking guys claimed they'd seen my light from the road (impossible, I was at the back of 30 wooded acres), and wanted to smoke pot with us.  These guys were talking strange, and kept referring to "Charlie" and coming back for another "visit".  I didn't put 2 and 2 together until they left, and one of them remarked how cool my barn walls would look written in blood.

I told my cuz about it the next day, and lived in abject terror until he came back and told me I had nothing to worry about any more.  I knew better than to ask any questions, but I am quite certain my bikers made those Mansonites disappear- forever.

I've had a soft spot for bikers ever since.   They may well have saved my sorry ass.   ;-)

I'm a newbie and haven't heard the story yet. Wow. My "if only" story is boring in comparison. I was at a bar in my early twenties, and had a woman try very hard to get me out to see her boyfriend in her car. Even while a bit tipsy, I knew something wasn't right.
 

[nokat]

Every time I see the Publisher's Clearing House ad, I think, that's a murder.  $2500 a week when you die? 
 

[funky-rat]

On ‎9‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 2:22 PM, Brattinella said:

Did any of you watch the Inside the Manson Cult last night?  It was surprisingly good (and new video!).  LOTS of never before seen stuff with most members represented.  I've been studying the Manson family for many years, and it was full of new information.  If they show it again, do watch.

What channel?  I want to see if I can find it on demand.  Helter Skelter was my first foray in to true crime - the 2nd was Fatal Vision.

[Jaded]

8 minutes ago, funky-rat said:

What channel?  I want to see if I can find it on demand.  Helter Skelter was my first foray in to true crime - the 2nd was Fatal Vision.

It aired on FOX.

[Surrealist]

On 9/19/2018 at 3:27 PM, walnutqueen said:

I watched, too.  I have some interest in this subject.

Most of you have heard my Mansonite story, (more than once!!!) so you can skip this post; but for the newcomers:

I lived in a barn on 30 wooded acres in the Pacific Northwest (B.C. Canada) my senior year of high school.  My cousin was a biker, and knew one of the Manson snitches who had fled up to our neck of the woods after spilling the dirt to Bugliosi.  That guy lived armed to the teeth in total terror, and for good reason.

One dark night, when I was fortunately entertaining a few friends, there was a knock on my barn door.  Two scary ZZ Top looking guys claimed they'd seen my light from the road (impossible, I was at the back of 30 wooded acres), and wanted to smoke pot with us.  These guys were talking strange, and kept referring to "Charlie" and coming back for another "visit".  I didn't put 2 and 2 together until they left, and one of them remarked how cool my barn walls would look written in blood.

I told my cuz about it the next day, and lived in abject terror until he came back and told me I had nothing to worry about any more.  I knew better than to ask any questions, but I am quite certain my bikers made those Mansonites disappear- forever.

I've had a soft spot for bikers ever since.   They may well have saved my sorry ass.   ;-)

OK. First time reader of your story. 

 

Holy. Shit.

[Tdoc72]

Did anyone watch this week’s Evil Lives Here about Kimberly Cargill who murdered her kids babysitter because she was going to testify in a custody hearing?  At the very end, her son says she sent him about 30 letters and then my dvr cut out. I know he wants no contact with her but did he read them or not?  

[renatae]

On 9/19/2018 at 3:27 PM, walnutqueen said:

I watched, too.  I have some interest in this subject.

Most of you have heard my Mansonite story, (more than once!!!) so you can skip this post; but for the newcomers:

I lived in a barn on 30 wooded acres in the Pacific Northwest (B.C. Canada) my senior year of high school.  My cousin was a biker, and knew one of the Manson snitches who had fled up to our neck of the woods after spilling the dirt to Bugliosi.  That guy lived armed to the teeth in total terror, and for good reason.

One dark night, when I was fortunately entertaining a few friends, there was a knock on my barn door.  Two scary ZZ Top looking guys claimed they'd seen my light from the road (impossible, I was at the back of 30 wooded acres), and wanted to smoke pot with us.  These guys were talking strange, and kept referring to "Charlie" and coming back for another "visit".  I didn't put 2 and 2 together until they left, and one of them remarked how cool my barn walls would look written in blood.

I told my cuz about it the next day, and lived in abject terror until he came back and told me I had nothing to worry about any more.  I knew better than to ask any questions, but I am quite certain my bikers made those Mansonites disappear- forever.

I've had a soft spot for bikers ever since.   They may well have saved my sorry ass.   ;-)

 

[nokat]

I've become addicted to Nightwatch Nation and PD Live. Yes I know they have their own forums.
 

[nokat]

On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 6:13 PM, Tdoc72 said:

Did anyone watch this week’s Evil Lives Here about Kimberly Cargill who murdered her kids babysitter because she was going to testify in a custody hearing?  At the very end, her son says she sent him about 30 letters and then my dvr cut out. I know he wants no contact with her but did he read them or not?

I usually watch every ID episode, I missed that one. The last thing I watched was Deadly Women, the Australian show than some of you roll your eyes at. I still have The Perfect Murder on the DVR. Also Homcide Hunter, my my my.
 

[walnutqueen]

On 9/19/2018 at 8:21 PM, callie lee 29 said:

Holy crap, that is terrifying!! I've never once been scared about living in a rural area. Now I'm a little weirded out....

I think your odds are slightly better for not getting brutally murdered living out in the sticks.  Funny thing, but since that incident, I've never been afraid of being alone, or living alone.  :-)

 

On 9/20/2018 at 3:25 AM, nokat said:

I'm a newbie and haven't heard the story yet. Wow. My "if only" story is boring in comparison. I was at a bar in my early twenties, and had a woman try very hard to get me out to see her boyfriend in her car. Even while a bit tipsy, I knew something wasn't right.
 

You are most fortunate to have listened to your instincts!

 

On 9/21/2018 at 1:29 PM, Surrealist said:

OK. First time reader of your story. 

 

Holy. Shit.

Yup.  But that shit?  Was unholy.  ;-)

 

On 9/22/2018 at 7:21 AM, renatae said:

 

HEE!!!  How you captured a picture of my face right after those two fuckers left is beyond me - kudos!  ;-)

[TipseyGirl]

On 9/19/2018 at 3:27 PM, walnutqueen said:

I watched, too.  I have some interest in this subject.

Most of you have heard my Mansonite story, (more than once!!!) so you can skip this post; but for the newcomers:

I lived in a barn on 30 wooded acres in the Pacific Northwest (B.C. Canada) my senior year of high school.  My cousin was a biker, and knew one of the Manson snitches who had fled up to our neck of the woods after spilling the dirt to Bugliosi.  That guy lived armed to the teeth in total terror, and for good reason.

One dark night, when I was fortunately entertaining a few friends, there was a knock on my barn door.  Two scary ZZ Top looking guys claimed they'd seen my light from the road (impossible, I was at the back of 30 wooded acres), and wanted to smoke pot with us.  These guys were talking strange, and kept referring to "Charlie" and coming back for another "visit".  I didn't put 2 and 2 together until they left, and one of them remarked how cool my barn walls would look written in blood.

I told my cuz about it the next day, and lived in abject terror until he came back and told me I had nothing to worry about any more.  I knew better than to ask any questions, but I am quite certain my bikers made those Mansonites disappear- forever.

I've had a soft spot for bikers ever since.   They may well have saved my sorry ass.   ;-)

Whoa.

On 9/16/2018 at 6:19 PM, walnutqueen said:

I'm just settling down to watch "Unspeakable Crime: The Killing of Jessica Chambers" (Oxygen).  Apparently, there's also a 7 part podcast about it, too.  Less than 15 minutes in, and I am HOOKED.  Please don't spoil me if you know how this all turns out!  ;-)

I came here to see if anyone else was watching. Very intriguing. Man, those poor men and women who were first responders. I don't imagine you could ever get over seeing something like that :(

[Coffeewinewater]

12 minutes ago, TipseyGirl said:

Whoa.

I came here to see if anyone else was watching. Very intriguing. Man, those poor men and women who were first responders. I don't imagine you could ever get over seeing something like that :(

Yes, they seemed completely wrecked by what they saw that night.

The prosecutor trying to make the Jury believe that the lights on the very dark video was Jessica's car, wow. 

I do believe Jessica said Eric. 

[Brattinella]

The case of Jessica Chambers, along with Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom are still so haunting and awful in my mind.  I can't bear to even think of their suffering.

[walnutqueen]

4 hours ago, TipseyGirl said:

Whoa.

I came here to see if anyone else was watching. Very intriguing. Man, those poor men and women who were first responders. I don't imagine you could ever get over seeing something like that :(

 

3 hours ago, Coffeewinewater said:

Yes, they seemed completely wrecked by what they saw that night.

The prosecutor trying to make the Jury believe that the lights on the very dark video was Jessica's car, wow. 

I do believe Jessica said Eric. 

 

1 hour ago, Brattinella said:

The case of Jessica Chambers, along with Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom are still so haunting and awful in my mind.  I can't bear to even think of their suffering.

That one first responder on the witness stand who tried, choking back tears, to describe her : "Her hair looked like she'd stuck a finger in a light socket".  Then when asked "are you still a first responder?", the answer was a quiet but very telling "No".  Heartbreaking.

And what happy horseshit about her burned lips being unable to form words was THAT?  She clearly said "Help me, help me" to the first person she saw, and was communicating with a dozen people on scene; many heard her say "Eric".  

This is why I hold NO respect for "expert witnesses", who are paid to play for whatever side happens to nab them first.  Looking at a few of the famous (and infamous) of those so-called highly-regarded "experts".  No.  Just because their claim to fame is having testified on a bunch of high profile cases (JFK, anyone?), doesn't mean SHIT.  They are professional trial testifiers, that's it.

[TipseyGirl]

38 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

 

 

That one first responder on the witness stand who tried, choking back tears, to describe her : "Her hair looked like she'd stuck a finger in a light socket".  Then when asked "are you still a first responder?", the answer was a quiet but very telling "No".  Heartbreaking.

And what happy horseshit about her burned lips being unable to form words was THAT?  She clearly said "Help me, help me" to the first person she saw, and was communicating with a dozen people on scene; many heard her say "Eric".  

This is why I hold NO respect for "expert witnesses", who are paid to play for whatever side happens to nab them first.  Looking at a few of the famous (and infamous) of those so-called highly-regarded "experts".  No.  Just because their claim to fame is having testified on a bunch of high profile cases (JFK, anyone?), doesn't mean SHIT.  They are professional trial testifiers, that's it.

Honestly. And for the DA to say that he hoped the jurors could overcome the fact that several first responders said they heard Jessica say "Eric did this. Eric burned me." Wow. I call shenanigans on that bullshit. Eric sounds NOTHING like "Quentin". Why should they dismiss that??

When they showed Cole (the young man choking back tears) leaving the courthouse, my heart ached for him. I hope he finds peace and comfort.

Edited September 23, 2018 by TipseyGirl

[InDueTime]

On 9/21/2018 at 8:13 PM, Tdoc72 said:

Did anyone watch this week’s Evil Lives Here about Kimberly Cargill who murdered her kids babysitter because she was going to testify in a custody hearing?  At the very end, her son says she sent him about 30 letters and then my dvr cut out. I know he wants no contact with her but did he read them or not?  

I didn't see the episode, but I've seen the story on Snapped and Deadly Women.

[renatae]

9 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

 

 

That one first responder on the witness stand who tried, choking back tears, to describe her : "Her hair looked like she'd stuck a finger in a light socket".  Then when asked "are you still a first responder?", the answer was a quiet but very telling "No".  Heartbreaking.

And what happy horseshit about her burned lips being unable to form words was THAT?  She clearly said "Help me, help me" to the first person she saw, and was communicating with a dozen people on scene; many heard her say "Eric".  

This is why I hold NO respect for "expert witnesses", who are paid to play for whatever side happens to nab them first.  Looking at a few of the famous (and infamous) of those so-called highly-regarded "experts".  No.  Just because their claim to fame is having testified on a bunch of high profile cases (JFK, anyone?), doesn't mean SHIT.  They are professional trial testifiers, that's it.

Exactly! She was communicating with everyone. No one argued about her telling her name. No one argued with the fact she made other statements everyone understood. But she is only unable to correctly state the name of her assailant, so they can come up with a suspect whose name does not even remotely resemble "Eric?"

This is also how I feel about "experts" who testified Darlie Routier's very obviously not superficial wounds were superficial. They not only contradicted the surgical reports and my own lying eyes, they were proven wrong by the still present scars. She could still be guilty, but lies like these are unconscionable.

Darlie from around 2017. You can still see the scar traversing her neck:

 

Edited September 24, 2018 by renatae

[Brattinella]

Yes, well I still believe he did it.  No amount of four part episodes will convince me of his or Darlie's innocence.

[renatae]

He who? Which case are you talking about? Do you mean Quentin?

On 9/21/2018 at 8:13 PM, Tdoc72 said:

Did anyone watch this week’s Evil Lives Here about Kimberly Cargill who murdered her kids babysitter because she was going to testify in a custody hearing?  At the very end, her son says she sent him about 30 letters and then my dvr cut out. I know he wants no contact with her but did he read them or not?  

I saw this but can't say absolutely whether he read them or not, because I'm not sure whether he even said. I did get the sense from how he was talking that he hadn't read them.

[walnutqueen]

On the Case with Paula Zahn :

So, the mothers of the missing stage a public protest, and THEN the cops decide to cave to media attention and investigate?  "Once we realized we had 9 girls missing, all approximately the same age, all in this 2-3 mile radius, we got on it right away".  No.you didn't.  And how in the fuckety fuck do the cops NOT notice this until the mothers bring attention to it?  You're the fucking COPS, and it is your fucking J.O.B.  Gah!

[psychoticstate]

On ‎9‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 3:35 PM, cuppasun said:

I watched it, Brattinella. I've been fascinated (morbidly, admittedly) with Manson & followers since reading Helter Skelter decades ago, my first foray into true crime. I'm particularly interested in the last few years in the stories from new or different sources, and found several that were fascinating: Restless Souls: The Sharon Tate Family's Account of Stardom, the Manson Murders, and a Crusade for Justice by Alisa Statman and Brie Tate which was heartbreaking and fascinating; Member of the Family: My Story of Charles Manson, Life Inside His Cult, and the Darkness That Ended the Sixties by Dianne Lake and Deborah Herman (Dianne Lake was one of the earliest and the youngest member of the Family)--I have both of those on audiobooks, and am still listening to the second. There's also a multi-episode run on the podcast You Must Remember This, called Charles Manson's Hollywood (episodes 44-55) that was incredibly well-done and researched, I recommend it wholeheartedly.

Last night's special was pretty cool. I'm always braced for stuff like that to just be sensationally-packaged retreads of the same old available material, but it was truly fascinating and somewhat disturbing to see the footage of Family life and members at the time. I remember reading about Bugliosi's interviews with Paul Watkins, and it was kind of amazing to see so much footage of him at the time. The interviews with Catherine (Gypsy) Share and Dianne Lake were sad and interesting as well. 

There was one thing that stood out to me, and not in a good way--I've been trying to figure out why they did it. In the obligatory retelling of the events of Tate-LaBianca, the special left out even mentioning Linda Kasabian, as if she hadn't been there at all. Even more puzzling, when moving on to the extremely abbreviated recounting of the trial, the only reference to a "star witness" was Dianne Lake, when it was, of course, Kasabian who was the star witness, arguably perhaps the most important witness, as she actually saw the events at Cielo Drive (though didn't participate). I know she has since changed her name and stays out of the public eye, and I don't blame her--but were the filmmakers not allowed to mention her? It seems a very strange omission.

I can't bring myself to delete the show from my Tivo...no idea if it will be repeated, and I suspect I may want to rewatch sometime! : )

 

On ‎9‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 4:27 PM, walnutqueen said:

I watched, too.  I have some interest in this subject.

Most of you have heard my Mansonite story, (more than once!!!) so you can skip this post; but for the newcomers:

I lived in a barn on 30 wooded acres in the Pacific Northwest (B.C. Canada) my senior year of high school.  My cousin was a biker, and knew one of the Manson snitches who had fled up to our neck of the woods after spilling the dirt to Bugliosi.  That guy lived armed to the teeth in total terror, and for good reason.

One dark night, when I was fortunately entertaining a few friends, there was a knock on my barn door.  Two scary ZZ Top looking guys claimed they'd seen my light from the road (impossible, I was at the back of 30 wooded acres), and wanted to smoke pot with us.  These guys were talking strange, and kept referring to "Charlie" and coming back for another "visit".  I didn't put 2 and 2 together until they left, and one of them remarked how cool my barn walls would look written in blood.

I told my cuz about it the next day, and lived in abject terror until he came back and told me I had nothing to worry about any more.  I knew better than to ask any questions, but I am quite certain my bikers made those Mansonites disappear- forever.

I've had a soft spot for bikers ever since.   They may well have saved my sorry ass.   ;-)

 

On ‎9‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 5:30 PM, Brattinella said:

I agree with you that Linda Kasabian had way more involvement (though not responsibility) than Dianne Lake.  I think Linda probably is tired of being referred to at all in this context. 

I missed the airing of the Manson special but I found it on You Tube.  Unfortunately I started watching later in the evening and when I was tired so I missed a portion.  I'll have to rewatch.  

From what I saw, however - - the videos were fascinating.  That Catherine "Gypsy" Share, who was one of the older Manson family members and pregnant herself could state that she never thought about Sharon Tate's baby - - but did think about Sharon on occasion -- was chilling.  The disconnect is mind blowing. 

I too was surprised that Linda Kasabian wasn't mentioned.  I've always felt that Kasabian wasn't just  an innocent little hippy-dippy flower child, standing by, and no one will convince me otherwise.  There's a documentary that's probably about 10 years old in which she appeared in a horrible wig and semi-shadow and she STILL sounds in absolute awe over Tex Watson.  She admitted that she rolled Steve Parent's body for his wallet, which had never come out before.  If she was so innocent, and so disgusted by what her "Family" members had done, why not admit that somewhere in the four decades previous?  She also apparently got into quite a bit of legal trouble, along with her daughter - - drugs, I think.  

I've got the physical book and audible version of "Restless Souls" and it's a tearjerker.  I was in tears driving down the road, listening to how these unspeakable and pointless crimes ripped apart the Tate family, and how Sharon's mother put away her daughter's photos and wouldn't discuss Sharon for a decade after her murder.  (And that's just the Tate family; that's not including the families of the other victims.)  The book had some controversy - - Brie's name is actually Brie Ford (she is Sharon's niece and Sharon's sister Patti's daughter); Alisa Statman was Patti's partner in her last years and some say she was obsessed with the murders and met/hooked up with Patti because of them and possibly lived at the Cielo home before it was torn down.  Debra Tate isn't mentioned much in the book and she has disavowed it.  Regardless, still an inside look at that family's pain and suffering.

I had read of @walnutqueen's frightening Mansonite encounter and it's still scary.  God only knows how much the Manson Family actually did.

[SunnyBeBe]

On 9/21/2018 at 9:13 PM, Tdoc72 said:

Did anyone watch this week’s Evil Lives Here about Kimberly Cargill who murdered her kids babysitter because she was going to testify in a custody hearing?  At the very end, her son says she sent him about 30 letters and then my dvr cut out. I know he wants no contact with her but did he read them or not?  

He said that he had no interest in seeing her, but after that, he said that in some of those 30 letters she claimed that the truth would come out and her innocence would be proven.   This bothered him, but, I guess that means that he did read a few of them or someone read them and told him about what she was saying. 

[LuvMyShows]

Don't judge me, but when the real world gets too intense, true crime stories are just too overwhelming, so I watch...Hallmark Mysteries.  Yes, they are idiotic, but they are also predictably formulaic and always have a treacly-sweet subplot with a nice resolution, and they are insanely G-rated.  I'm in that mini-phase right now, with series like "Flower Shop Mystery", "Murder She Baked", and "Aurora Teagarden".  Does anyone else watch this stuff?  No?...just me?

Edited September 25, 2018 by LuvMyShows
added punctuation

[kathyk24]

On ‎9‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 9:08 AM, walnutqueen said:

On the Case with Paula Zahn :

So, the mothers of the missing stage a public protest, and THEN the cops decide to cave to media attention and investigate?  "Once we realized we had 9 girls missing, all approximately the same age, all in this 2-3 mile radius, we got on it right away".  No.you didn't.  And how in the fuckety fuck do the cops NOT notice this until the mothers bring attention to it?  You're the fucking COPS, and it is your fucking J.O.B.  Gah!

I think when teens go missing the police believe they ran away so why should they bother looking for them? I also think waiting 24 hours before launching a formal investigation gives killers a head start.

[Coffeewinewater]

11 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

Don't judge me, but when the real world gets too intense, true crime stories are just too overwhelming, so I watch...Hallmark Mysteries.  Yes, they are idiotic, but they are also predictably formulaic and always have a treacly-sweet subplot with a nice resolution, and they are insanely G-rated.  I'm in that mini-phase right now, with series like "Flower Shop Mystery", "Murder She Baked", and "Aurora Teagarden".  Does anyone else watch this stuff?  No?...just me?

 

Oh I love these movies but my current Direct TV package doesn't carry the channel . I'm looking into seriously adding because I need fluff murder she wrote type mysteries. I love love true life crime. but these are awesome when life gets too dark.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Coffeewinewater

[Brattinella]

I also love the Hallmark channel (I think our cable has two versions).  They are wonderfully sweet mysteries.

[auntjess]

On 9/25/2018 at 11:53 AM, LuvMyShows said:

Don't judge me, but when the real world gets too intense, true crime stories are just too overwhelming, so I watch...Hallmark Mysteries.  Yes, they are idiotic, but they are also predictably formulaic and always have a treacly-sweet subplot with a nice resolution, and they are insanely G-rated.  I'm in that mini-phase right now, with series like "Flower Shop Mystery", "Murder She Baked", and "Aurora Teagarden".  Does anyone else watch this stuff?  No?...just me?

Don't watch these, but have favorite mystery books that I'll reread.
My chill out TV shows are old What Not to Wears and new favorite, Dr. Pimple Popper.

23 hours ago, kathyk24 said:

I think when teens go missing the police believe they ran away so why should they bother looking for them? I also think waiting 24 hours before launching a formal investigation gives killers a head start.

Agree, but I thought the wait was universal.  Then I remember seeing one, where cops were suspicious because the husband did not report wife missing right away.
He said he thought he had to wait, and I believed him.  (He hadn't killed her.)

Edited September 27, 2018 by auntjess