S30.E14: It's A Fickle, Fickle Game / S30.E15: Worlds Apart Reunion

[BK1978]

Glad to see Mike has kept up the streak of having a sucky winner every other season.  Well I guess the streak has really only been the last four seasons starting with Tyson (Sucky winner), Tony (Good winner), Natalie (Sucky winner), Mike (Good winner).  That being said I would have been happy with a Carolyn victory as well because I thought she played a pretty good game and even a Rodney victory would not have been that bad.

 

 

[Andromeda]

What I wondered about Will and his alleged apology at Ponderosa-does he realize he can prove Shirin is lying or telling the truth about what he said?  We see Ponderosa.  I have a feeling it went as Shirin said it did.

Is Ponderosa more than just video snippets? Is there an actual live feed like in Big Brother?

[LadyChatts]

Is Ponderosa more than just video snippets? Is there an actual live feed like in Big Brother?

 

Sadly, no.  It's just an edited video clip of the ousted Survivor in the time after their boot.  But I wish!  I think this seasons Ponderosa, at least with the first 3, would have been fun to have more footage of.  And I forgot, they don't always do a Ponderosa of the final 3.  They did when they first started it, but it hasn't been every season.  With this season, they may have really wanted to avoid all the Will/Shirin drama that they could.  So we may never know what was said, although Will didn't deny giving the "apology" Shirin quoted at the reunion.

[lilabennet]

Damn.  I would gladly trade any of the people that made the cast for Shane.  Even Stephen or Joe.  This sucks.

[LadyChatts]

Damn.  I would gladly trade any of the people that made the cast for Shane.  Even Stephen or Joe.  This sucks.

 

I wouldn't trade Joe, even though I fully expect him to be an early target, but I'd give up Stephen.

[loki567]

I haven't been on Shirin's side for most of the season but I got to admit that I loved the fact that she didn't accept Will's passive-aggressive, "accept this apology so I can look better in front of the audience," apology. And then she clearly laid out why it was bullshit. Kudos, Shirin. 

 

Why does Jeff constantly ask the young popular guy about his dating life at the reunion? It's so creepy. 

Edited May 21, 2015 by loki567

[Andromeda]

Could someone jog my memory re: Shane? Seems to be a lot of disappointment about him not making the cast. I watch every season -- I've been watching since season 1 (only missed the very first episode, but caught up on that later.) That said, my memory for names and faces is fairly wretched. What did he do that makes him memorable and a desirable returnee? Thanks in advance.

[Bananasandsocks]

So this season has the accomplishment of making me doubt Survivor's editing more than any other. I'm convinced now that Survivor is a classist and racist show and that Dan and Will are its victims. Both of those individuals were portrayed negatively in light of Shirin (who I mistakenly sympathized with due to the racist and classist editing of the show). Turns out, Shirin is a white person who earned millions in her twenties. She is a Yahoo executive. Nobody seemed to like her while there. Since she's a corporate executive, that's to be expected. She probably is intolerable.

 

White corporate (millionaire) executive Shirin accused Will, an African-American man, of lying about his bringing back all the food he won as a secret reward (which he had honestly admittedly to receiving and honestly brought back). Will understandably overreacted upon hearing about the rich white executive's accusations that he was stealing from the all-white (except him) tribe. Survivor portrayed Will, the black man, as the evil one. Survivor's editing portraying Shirin as the victim of the black man's aggression. That decision was racist. This is not to say that Will was not a goat or should have won. It is to say that Survivor should be boycotted by anybody that cares about racism.

 

Then Dan. I felt Dan came across in the reunion as credible. He frankly admitted that his comments about "slapping" Shirin were inappropriate. As he should. Shirin never admitted that a white millionaire falsely accusing a black man of stealing from the all-white tribe was inappropriate. That is to her and Survivor's shame. I can understand how a blue collar man like Dan wouldn't get along with an elitist like Shirin and might be provoked to say extreme things about her. We were not shown how a corporate executive like Shirin managed to annoy every single person on the island to hell. Why is that?

 

It should be added that it is not exactly controversial that being adopted creates certain trauma and psychological issues. The idea promoted by Survivor that Shirin's alleged witness to domestic violence somehow automatically trumps Dan's status as adoptee is disgusting (and, I can only assume, borne of classism, i.e., favoritism to a Yahoo executive).

Edited May 21, 2015 by Bananasandsocks

[loki567]

Could someone jog my memory re: Shane? Seems to be a lot of disappointment about him not making the cast. I watch every season -- I've been watching since season 1 (only missed the very first episode, but caught up on that later.) That said, my memory for names and faces is fairly wretched. What did he do that makes him memorable and a desirable returnee? Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

This pretty much sums up that entire season. 

Edited May 21, 2015 by loki567

[enlightenedbum]

Shane is a ridiculous person who quit smoking (three packs a day!) literally when he stepped on the show.  He was then put on a tribe with a whole bunch of eccentric people and Cirie.  And immediately made an alliance with the most other eccentric person, Courtney.  They hated each other.  He was also allied with Aras the yoga dork and Danielle who has a temper.  Did he get along with them?  No.  Did he frequently ask to be removed from that alliance?  Yes.  Did they keep voting with him?  Yep.  Did literally everyone on that tribe hate everyone else on that tribe except Cirie?  Yes, yes they did.

 

Somehow, they won like every challenge and dominated the season, despite being utterly dysfunctional.  Only Terry's incredible streak of luck/immunity wins kept them from being top six.  The whole season is pretty hilarious, frankly.  Partly because they got the perfect observer person as the not insane member of the tribe.  Cirie is one of the best narrators the show's ever had.

Edited May 21, 2015 by enlightenedbum

[yankee1151]

I wouldn't trade Joe, even though I fully expect him to be an early target, but I'd give up Stephen.

I think I'd trade any of the guys for Shane, with the possible exception of Varner.  

 

I think Joe will be an early boot too.  I hope not, but I think he'll be eaten alive.  Really hoping that Terry and Kass are very early boots.  I have no desire to even hear them speak.  Maybe they can do like Palau(?) where 2 people have to get right back on the boat because they weren't picked for a tribe.  Kass can ride off into the sunset like the crazy singing lady from that season.  

[lilabennet]

Could someone jog my memory re: Shane? Seems to be a lot of disappointment about him not making the cast. I watch every season -- I've been watching since season 1 (only missed the very first episode, but caught up on that later.) That said, my memory for names and faces is fairly wretched. What did he do that makes him memorable and a desirable returnee? Thanks in advance.

Remembering this segment never fails to brighten my mood.

Edited May 21, 2015 by lilabennet

[yankee1151]

And here's more... 

[mojoween]

It's funny to me that I remember that Peih-Gee was popular, and I remember that I didn't like her, but I don't recall why any of that happened.

[Bryce Lynch]

Will got off way too easy.

I have to partly defend Will. While he went way over the top in ripping Shirin, we seem to forget that Shirin started the conflict and was way out of line with him.

He sacrificed HIS reward and shared the food with her and the rest of the tribe, and she had the gaul to falsely accuse him of holding back some of the food (which would have been his right to do anyway).

Perhaps a "victim of domestic violence and verbal assault" should have more empathy for others and should not viciously attack their character, without cause.

Also, Shirin was an unbearably annoying person who seemed to be almost universally despised by the tribe.

Will was wrong to say what he said, but Shirin owed him an apology as much as he owed her one.

With her and "Choas Kass" on the show next season, I don't think I will be tuning in.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Bryce Lynch

[choclatechip45]

Probst also didn't want Jonny Fairplay back for FvsF, but he was overruled on that one, too.  I think Jiffy does have some say and is brought onboard for pitching ideas and look at prospective contestants, but apparently not as much say as I thought he did.

 

It's been reported that he pushed for Gervase and Tina for BvW. He does have an executive producer credit can't remember what season that started.

 

The best part about Casaya was that they all chose each other in a school round pick.

[Bryce Lynch]

I thought Shirin was fine and Will was a well rehearsed ass. Shirin has every right to know why he made those comments.

He made the comments, because after he generously sacrificed HIS huge food reward to the tribe, the most annoying and useless contestant in the history of the show falsely accused him of being a liar and holding back most of the food.

He went way over the top, but she prokoked him and was as bad as he was.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Bryce Lynch

[choclatechip45]

I'm more curious how Will got her cell phone number? Did she give it to him after this was all over? Did he ask another contestant? If your are going to seek out someones number I would expect a phone call as an apology.

[ProfCrash]

He made the comments, because after he generously sacrificed HIS huge food reward to the tribe, the most annoying and useless contestant in the history of the show falsely accused him of be a liar and holding back most of the food.

He went way over the top, but she prokoked him and was as bad as he was.

I see, so that is why he called Jenn and Mike, who made the same comments, soulless and unloved?

See, the thing is, he made his point about the food. He then verbally attacked one person, convienently the social outcast who was physically the weakest of the three who questioned his generosity. He pulled aside Jenn and told her that he was fine with her and that he loved her. After telling Shirin that she had no soul.

So, yeah, no.

[Bryce Lynch]

BTW, did Mike kind of dance around the auction question as to whether it was a bad move or if he should have apologized for it?

I wonder if Rodney has man bun envy. Looks like he's growing his hair out.

I never got why what Mike did at the auction was such a big deal. He hesistated and considered breaking the pact, but ended up buying the letter from home. Nobody was harmed in the slightest by what he did.

Besides that, anyone who is not willing to trade a letter from home for an advantage in the game doesn't really deserve to win.

[Bryce Lynch]

I see, so that is why he called Jenn and Mike, who made the same comments, soulless and unloved?

See, the thing is, he made his point about the food. He then verbally attacked one person, convienently the social outcast who was physically the weakest of the three who questioned his generosity. He pulled aside Jenn and told her that he was fine with her and that he loved her. After telling Shirin that she had no soul.

So, yeah, no.

I don't recall exactly what happened, but I think Shirin was the one accusing him most strongly or at least the one he heard the most. Maybe he should have gone off on all of them.

Also, Shirin made herself an "social outcast" with her constant bizarre and annoying behavior.

Also, it wasn't just his generosity, but his integrity that she questioned. She basically called him a liar. And when a person who is starving, just shared his food with the group, and then gets called a liar by a useless, annoying member of the group, who nobody can stand, it is natural for him to get angry.

He went way over the top, but he was provoked and he did apologize more than once. She refused to accept the apologies (and apparently LIED in front of millions of people about it) because she is a drama queen.

Will had a very bad moment. Shirin's whole existence seems to be an ongoing bad moment.

[cooksdelight]

Did Jeff speak to Vince at all? Did he have feathers in his hair? What about the pretty girl with the long black hair who went first? It seemed so much focus was spent on the bad guys that the rest of the people -- even the winner -- were ignored.

I think the reason Carolyn didn't get a second invite was her attitude through the majority of the show. Nose in the air, smug, entitled (to me). She only became likable when she was scrambling to stay in the game. If her own tribemates only give her one vote, my opinion of her must not be too far off.

[Wings]

 

And Shirin with all that self-indulgent agony.

 

Perfectly phrased, millennium.  Bringing this up again coupled with "I made my first million by the age of 25,"  may make her an early boot.  This could be my wishful thinking at play but I am an optimist!   I do not see these veterans putting up with her fragile psyche.  

[Bryce Lynch]

Well, we all knew he wasn't going to stoop to voting for a woman.

LOL! Actually, I think Dan wanted to make himself look good by voting for Mike after he was "real" at FTC.

On a related note, someone suggested that Rodney didn't vote for Carolyn because she is a woman. As much as I despise Rodney, I am convinced it was a combination of his alliance with Will and the fact that Carolyn voted for him and beat him that caused him to vote that way. It was bitterness not misogyny, in this case.

[LizBug]

Anyone else think it was totally bizarre when Shirin kept quoting players from other seasons??  "As xxx from season yyy said 'blahblahblah'".  If she was doing that during the game (and I don't doubt it), no wonder people didn't want to be around her.  

 

Feel a bit sorry for the captive audience (errrr ... new cast) during the flight to Cambodia. 

When were Will & Shirin at Ponderosa together?  As a member of the final three wasn't he at camp until after the FTC?  If there was joint time at Ponderosa, it was while everyone was packing and leaving.

[choclatechip45]

I hope we get some footage of the green room or the bus. I'll laugh if they seat Varner/Kimmi next to each other on the plane over. I have to say Stephanie's reaction to T-bird not getting on made me like her. I thought Jeremy's reaction was pretty classy considering Shane was right next to him.  I did laugh at Max's reaction when Shane didn't get on because it was the most genuine moment I have seen from him so far.

[LizBug]

Just read Mike's interview with Gordon Holmes (Xfinity TV blog - http://my.xfinity.com/blogs/tv/2015/02/10/survivor-blue-collar-mike-i’ll-be-the-biggest-liar-you’ve-ever-seen/)before the season.  This could be why he had more empathy for Shirin than others did.

 

Holmes:Your bio delves into some really personal things; not having a father growing up, being molested as a child…

Holloway: You don’t have to speak soft when you say those things. Those were tragedies that I went through as a child that I think could have molded me into being a horrible person or depressed all the time. But luckily, I had great family members that have taught me how to be a man. Taught me how to deal with those situations. To be honest with you, at age fifteen I became a Christian. That was a massive weight lifted from my chest. Growing up without a dad, you don’t understand the love bond between men. You don’t understand the love bond between a man and a younger man that is teaching them how to grow up. Becoming a Christian and having my pastor who is Don Couch mentor me to be a man… What it is to be responsible. What it is to stand up for what is right. Not to idly let things happen, but to be a voice for the voiceless. Being molested was rough, and it’s something that is with me. But, instead of being a hindrance or a crutch, I look at it as a strength now. I am able to reach out to those people who aren’t able to voice what happened to them and move past it. And, if somehow I’m able to help heal a young man or a young woman who has gone through the same things as I have, then that is not only my obligation, but it is my duty as a human to help someone else out.

 

 

[candall]

Count me in the group who doesn't buy Mike as likeable. He was a bit of a douche early on, but simply got overshadowed by pure awfulness.

 

From a Survivor standpoint, Mike didn't have much of a strategic game, as he consistently torpedoed his standing among his alliance when he was in it. Socially, he was pretty significantly disliked by most players, but the combination of his strategic ineptitude pushed him into becoming friends with the people on the outs. Only by the graces of his physical play and the overall lack of physical prowess by the remaining cast did these not come back to bite him.

 

I have to say that, the more I think about it, the more dissatisfying this end is. Of course, virtually any other end would've been equally or more dissatisfying...so...I don't know.

 

Personally, I find it insulting that Carolyn only got one vote. She arguably played as well as Mike did. Better strategically, not great socially, decent physically.

 

Okay, so you know how no one liked Shirin?  When Will was frustrated (understandable) that his gameplay generosity move was met with suspicion (reasonable, based on big vs. tiny bags of beans) he ripped into Shirin.  Something like "everyone here hates you and there's no one back home who cares whether you live or die either"--it was poisonous and brutal.  I don't think Will, in particular, would have had the confidence to throw that kind of shit at anyone else, but Shirin felt like a safe target.  And he was correct, because everyone sat and silently observed.  Why bother to put yourself out for the likes of Shirin? 

 

Except Mike.  He stands up, walks over to her, gets her on her feet and walks her out of there.

 

Compare that incident to the Big Bad where Mike almost made an underhanded move--which would have netted him "a huge advantage in the game" btw--and then changed his mind at the last minute and stuck with the honorable route.

 

Then he plays about the last third of the season all by himself, making multiple moves to upset the status quo in the alliance, trying to force each of them to question where they stand in the pecking order.  He could have saved Shutupdan if the moron had cooperated; arguably, he did save Carolyn by putting the word in her ear that she was going to be the vote.  He helped her more than once, in spite of the fact she couldn't say anything besides "Get Mike out."

 

And finally, he powered through five individual immunity challenges.

 

How in the world is this guy not justified as the million dollar winner?

 

As for Carolyn, I think the odds are against women in Survivor and she was good at challenges.  But mentally, Carolyn had the security of her HII for 33 days, on top of the security of her post-merge allies, and I think that gives you more strength than a chicken dinner.  Even after everyone (but Mike) voted for her, she was all "Final Four!" with her alliance the minute they hit camp.  Building that fire was the only hour she spent in Mike's shoes--totally on her own and desperate.

[wallflower75]

I have a feeling Kass will get voted off early.  And probably be put on a tribe opposite Spencer and Tasha.  She didn't get my votes, but not surprised she made it.

 

I'm of two minds about Kass--either she's going to go far because of how unlikeable she was the first time and someone will use her as a goat, or she's going to get voted out early because you'll never be able to trust her.  She didn't christen herself "Chaos Kass" for no reason.

 

Just wanted to add real quick--I was kind of surprised that Carolyn didn't get voted into Season 31, especially since Shirin did.  I figure Shirin for cannon fodder based on her game and her confession at FTC--unlike past "reunion cast" seasons, she won't be an unknown entity as some previous contestants coming back for a second chance were.

Edited May 21, 2015 by wallflower75

[millennium]

So this season has the accomplishment of making me doubt Survivor's editing more than any other. I'm convinced now that Survivor is a classist and racist show and that Dan and Will are its victims. Both of those individuals were portrayed negatively in light of Shirin (who I mistakenly sympathized with due to the racist and classist editing of the show). Turns out, Shirin is a white person who earned millions in her twenties. She is a Yahoo executive. Nobody seemed to like her while there. Since she's a corporate executive, that's to be expected. She probably is intolerable.

 

White corporate (millionaire) executive Shirin accused Will, an African-American man, of lying about his bringing back all the food he won as a secret reward (which he had honestly admittedly to receiving and honestly brought back). Will understandably overreacted upon hearing about the rich white executive's accusations that he was stealing from the all-white (except him) tribe. Survivor portrayed Will, the black man, as the evil one. Survivor's editing portraying Shirin as the victim of the black man's aggression. That decision was racist. This is not to say that Will was not a goat or should have won. It is to say that Survivor should be boycotted by anybody that cares about racism.

 

 

Survivor has always trafficked in racial and sexist stereotypes.   To watch the show is to accept it.

[millennium]

Okay, so you know how no one liked Shirin?  When Will was frustrated (understandable) that his gameplay generosity move was met with suspicion (reasonable, based on big vs. tiny bags of beans) he ripped into Shirin.  Something like "everyone here hates you and there's no one back home who cares whether you live or die either"--it was poisonous and brutal.  I don't think Will, in particular, would have had the confidence to throw that kind of shit at anyone else, but Shirin felt like a safe target.  And he was correct, because everyone sat and silently observed.  Why bother to put yourself out for the likes of Shirin? 

 

Except Mike.  He stands up, walks over to her, gets her on her feet and walks her out of there.

 

Compare that incident to the Big Bad where Mike almost made an underhanded move--which would have netted him "a huge advantage in the game" btw--and then changed his mind at the last minute and stuck with the honorable route.

 

Then he plays about the last third of the season all by himself, making multiple moves to upset the status quo in the alliance, trying to force each of them to question where they stand in the pecking order.  He could have saved Shutupdan if the moron had cooperated; arguably, he did save Carolyn by putting the word in her ear that she was going to be the vote.  He helped her more than once, in spite of the fact she couldn't say anything besides "Get Mike out."

 

And finally, he powered through five individual immunity challenges.

 

How in the world is this guy not justified as the million dollar winner?

 

 

He was justified only because someone had to win it.   "Powered through" individual immunity challenges?  He had no competition!  He was up against idiots and lardasses.  

 

And don't disrespect the word "honorable" by applying it to what Mike did at the auction.   He did an asshole thing, then chickened out only when he saw it was going to blow up in his face.   There's nothing honorable about that.   

 

Why not just say, "I'm happy the flag-waving, Jesus-pimping white guy won!" instead of trying to repackage Mike as something he isn't.

[ProfCrash]

I don't recall exactly what happened, but I think Shirin was the one accusing him most strongly or at least the one he heard the most. Maybe he should have gone off on all of them.

Also, Shirin made herself an "social outcast" with her constant bizarre and annoying behavior.

Also, it wasn't just his generosity, but his integrity that she questioned. She basically called him a liar. And when a person who is starving, just shared his food with the group, and then gets called a liar by a useless, annoying member of the group, who nobody can stand, it is natural for him to get angry.

He went way over the top, but he was provoked and he did apologize more than once. She refused to accept the apologies (and apparently LIED in front of millions of people about it) because she is a drama queen.

Will had a very bad moment. Shirin's whole existence seems to be an ongoing bad moment.

The show showed Mike and Jenn and Shirin discussing the food. The Show as aired had Mike and Jenn discussing it with others at camp, not Shirin. Shirin was shown with Mike and Jenn in a bonus clip looking for the food and questioning. Tyler told Will that Shirin, Mike, and Jenn were all saying the same thing. Will attacked Shirin and only Shirin. He didn't say anything to Mike. He pulled Jenn aside and told her that he loved her all was good. Will choose one person, Shirin. He could have had his say on the food and stopped but he didn't. He told her she was unloved at home and had no soul. That has nothing to do with the game or food. That is flat out an attack. And, if Shirin is too be believed, it was not the first time he called her soulless.

 

As for questioning his integrity, bull fucking shit. Did Sierra, Lindsey, and Kelly question Mike and Dan's integrity when they questioned whether the bag of beans they brought back was really a sign that they had not taken the idol clue? Sierra flat out says it is a small bag of beans and she doesn't believe them. Mike and Dan even discuss how the women responded to the bag and they shrug it off. So and Joaquin were caught lying about the food.

 

People lie in Survivor. People accuse others of lying in Survivor. Will lied in Survivor. He lied about his vote for Hali. He lied about being aligned with White Collar at the merge, he lied so well that Hali thought Shirin had voted for her. So Will's integrity was fair game because he had lied, more then once. Hell, he lied to Vince and voted him out. This has been the game since day freaking one. Questioning Will's sharing the food was legit strategy. Will calling them on it was legit. Will would have been fine by pulling out the cooler and putting the food in and saying "Yup, there it is." He wins points with his alliance and negates the campaign by Jenn, Mike, and Shirin.

 

Will calling Shirin soulless and saying she was unloved was not legit game play. That was Will melting down and bullying someone.

 

I am over the integrity defense. There is no defense for what Will said or his lack of an apology in the game or outside of the game. Hell, even Dan knew that what Will had said would be seen as crossing a line and gave a fake apology to Shirin that came across as sincere.

 

I suspect Probst went easier on Will at the reunion because he had one really awful moment and Dan had one per episode. I also suspect that Probst pulled the clip from the Whore comment because that and the slap were two of the examples that Dan kept harping on in his interviews. The slap one was easy enough to deal with, we know he didn't physically slap Shirin and that he wasn't going to. The problem with that comment is that combined with everything else that Dan said to and about women, the comment was pretty awful. The whore comment was so easy for CBS to pull the clip and show the lead in and remind people as to the immediate response, which was "whoa, whoa, whoa" and not "ha, ha, ha", was a simple reminder to Dan that it was not edited to make him look bad. The other specific comment that Dan mentioned was the Sierra apology and his defense there was Kelly was part of the barrage of BS directed at Sierra and that Sierra hurt Dan by wanting him to sit out the calling challenge.

[mojoween]

Gah I'm reminded how much I don't like Shirin other than the Sarah Palin comment. "I made my FIRST million by 25."

Well...good for you. Now playing for the money is not the only reason to play Survivor, but you don't have to rub it in when you have money and a lot of people don't.

Can you imagine the plane ride with her? "Kimmi remember in Australia when Alicia said she would always wave her finger in your face? Kelly did you hear me quote Sue? Vytas will you teach me how to do yoga like on your season? OMG Terry I remember how you said the love for your wife is greater than Aras's love for his mother, do you feel weird that you're playing with Aras's brother?"

Shane kissing Jeremy's head was adorable. I feel saddest for Shane most of all.

[Wings]

Will just didn't like Shirin so he blasted her.  Okay, it happens.   Mike gave credit to Jesus for his win (hand me my rifle) and Caroline and Sierra looked beautiful.   That is my recap.  

[JudyObscure]

Will is the worst.

Well said.

It says everthing that in spite of Dan Foley's endless hours of airtime, spent being a totally disgusting asshole -- Will, in just a relatively tiny speck of time, managed to be the worst Survivor ever. Sorry Mrs. Will screeching doesn't offset reality, we know what we saw, and we saw a man who does treat people that way. A man so judgmental and cruel, he can actually tell another person that she has no soul, and then as an "apology," tell her she needs to work on her forgiveness skills so she won't burn in Hell. Worst. Ever.

[phlebas]

Obviously I am an Army of One on here when it comes to being happy Shane isn't returning.  Watching him gives me the same feeling I had when I saw a clip of Anna Nicole Smith's reality show: "Put down the camera and get this person some help!" Clearly, YMMV.

 

I hope I never have to hear Dan or Will's voice again.

[mojoween]

Ok one last thought. Dan is a loathesome, despicable human whose redeeming qualities appear limited. But I do find it interesting that they brought up his "I want to slap her" but never brought up the numerous instances of Shirin calling people stupid, including Dan, and other things she said in interviews on the island.

[phlebas]

Ok one last thought. Dan is a loathesome, despicable human whose redeeming qualities appear limited. But I do find it interesting that they brought up his "I want to slap her" but never brought up the numerous instances of Shirin calling people stupid, including Dan, and other things she said in interviews on the island.

Calling out people who called Dan stupid would have forced Jeff to talk to more contestants, but the reunion would have been two hours longer.

[candall]

I have to partly defend Will. While he went way over the top in ripping Shirin, we seem to forget that Shirin started the conflict and was way out of line with him.

He sacrificed HIS reward and shared the food with her and the rest of the tribe, and she had the gaul to falsely accuse him of holding back some of the food (which would have been his right to do anyway).

Perhaps a "victim of domestic violence and verbal assault" should have more empathy for others and should not viciously attack their character, without cause.

Also, Shirin was an unbearably annoying person who seemed to be almost universally despised by the tribe.

Will was to say what he said, but Shirin owed him an apology as much as he owed her one.

With her and "Choas Kass" on the show next season, I don't think I will be tuning in.

Wow.  Shirin speculated that Will might have pulled a maneuver that was an EXACT DUPLICATE of one this cast had already seen earlier:  choosing to bring back X amount of food to the camp instead of 2X the amount of food.  (Share the big bag of beans versus take care of yourself and gift the others with a tiny bag of beans?)

 

Considering the possibility of a game play move is smart, is never out of line, and doesn't even come close to a vicious attack.

 

Now if she had stood over him and had a meltdown about how he's a thief and a liar who steals from his local convenience store and cheats on his wife, then I'd agree with you that they should swap apologies.

[ProfCrash]

Other thoughts:

 

I am ok with the cast for 31 but a bit bummed that Shane, Sabrina, and T-Bird did not make it back in. I would have been thrilled to not see Woo, Spenser, Kass, Shirin, or Joe on the cast. Kass because she annoyed me and I did not like how she played the game. Woo because he was a floater who was boring and has not strategy. Spenser, Shirin, and Joe because I would prefer to see them in a few years as opposed to right now.

 

Carolyn's husbands name is Jo-El (I am assuming it is spelt differently) All I could think of is that he is related to Superman.

 

Sierra really was awful at this game. She has Carolyn, who has won immunity and played an idol, and she could not deflect the votes to Carolyn.

 

Which returned me to Carolyn, she won immunity and played an idol and was still seen as canon fodder because the men were just that sexist and/or she was not all that great at the social game. I think Rodney voted for Will because he was pissed at Mike for not voting out Carolyn and he couldn't vote for a woman. Hali gave Carolyn a softball and Carolyn whiffed. All she had to say was that she was seen as a Mom because she had kids their age and yet she still beat how many of the younger people in challenges and won immunities and was on a ton of teams that won reward. And then discuss how she knew to hide the idol and was willing to take out her number one alliance mate because he was a threat to win. Instead she totally whiff.

 

Mike is not an all American winner. He is no where near perfect. He made some sexist remarks and that auction move was flat out awful. He was paranoid, for good reason, but he was no Tony in his overly paranoid response to everything. Tony was at least humorous, to me, with his floundering but overall figured out how to make it work. Mike also stepped up in the right moments. He did step in when Dan/Rodney where berating Sierra. He did step in when Will was attacking Shirin. He did win a lot of challenges. He was also pretty controlling and demanding. I can see where he would come off as condescending. He didn't exactly know how to approach people to persuade them. But overall, I think Mike is a good person who is working on improving himself and will learn and grow from some of the things that were said to him.

[ProfCrash]

Did Jeff speak to Vince at all? Did he have feathers in his hair? What about the pretty girl with the long black hair who went first? It seemed so much focus was spent on the bad guys that the rest of the people -- even the winner -- were ignored.

I think the reason Carolyn didn't get a second invite was her attitude through the majority of the show. Nose in the air, smug, entitled (to me). She only became likable when she was scrambling to stay in the game. If her own tribemates only give her one vote, my opinion of her must not be too far off.

Vince could have been included in the parade of men who behaved badly on the island with his stalker-like behavior. They actually did bring it up subtely when they showed the long hug and Jenn's response to the long hug.

 

They ignored pretty much everyone who wasn't involved in bad behavior that was over the top. So they ignored So, Vince, Nina, Lindsey, Max, Kelly, Hali, Jenn, Tyler, and Carolyn.  Kind of amazing. They were so thrilled to have the Season 31 vote so they could move away from the Season 30 folks.

[ghoulina]

Did anyone else find it ridiculous that Rodney calls even his dad "bro"? Frankly, I was surprised they didn't send his mom, so she could immediately cater to his every whim and make up for the horrible birthday he just had. 

 

I liked seeing the relationship Mike has with his mother, it explains a lot of about his work mentality and why he's always going, going, going. He shouldn't be so hard on others, but I get it. 

 

Normally it would be kind of boring watching Mike win challenge after challenge after challenge. But since I basically couldn't stand anyone else that was left, it thrilled me greatly. Plus, seeing Dan's face at tribal each time Mike had an II around his neck was priceless. 

 

And let's talk about Tribal(s) and the members of Ponderosa.

 

Sierra! Your eyebrows are back to normal! Thank God. 

 

Tyler....is it just me, or does dude look perpetually bored at Tribal? He just looks like he was in the middle of something really important and is highly annoyed he's been forced to come. 

 

And Dan. I don't know what's funnier - the fact that he's the only one who looks EXACTLY the same when he's ostensibly cleaned and groomed himself, or the epic eyerolls he makes every time Mike talks. 

 

I just can't with Dan and his hatred of Mike. I know they're cool now, but the visceral contempt dripping off of Dan any time he talked about Mike just seemed wildly out of proportion to me. I know, I know, Mike went back on his word at the auction. Get over it. It's a game. It's not like no one else on your tribe was 100% loyal to you. Rodney had a sub final four that did not include his other BC members, and I don't see Dan getting all hot and bothered over that. 

 

Anyhow, I always vacillate about taking a goat to FTC vs. someone who really deserves to be there. OTOH, why not make it easier for yourself to win? OTOH, if you really respect the game, you might see it as better to bring someone who truly played. Of course, if that's the case, send home Will - not Rodney. Rodney at least tried. But, for whatever reason, I was glad to see Mike brought Carolyn. I didn't love Carolyn. At some points she downright irked. But at the end of the day, I think she was one of the other few who actually played the game, and played it well. She wasn't a challenge beast, but she was mentally all there. She made people like her, but she was stealth. She hung onto that idol FOREVER and played it at exactly the right time. She made moves, and shifted alliances when she needed to. She was cunning, and she was good. 

 

Mike's game was less intelligent, but he fought hard and he was damn good at challenges. Dude has crazy good balance and he never gave up. 

 

Will....well, Will is a dead fish, just as Shirin said. That was truly the best laugh of the night. Man, I was dying. I'm not sure what to think about their whole thing. Honestly, I didn't really feel Will was sincere in his apology. I truly think Will is just a nasty person, and he apologized because of the backlash. He actually seemed angry when he was apologizing, to me. But, nothing good ever really comes of not accepting an apology. It just makes you look petty. I would have just said, "Thank you, Will" and gone on with my life. But that's just me. 

 

Okay, so I loved Jenn's speech at FTC, calling them all (well, not ALL) out as the bitter babies that they were. But then I was massively confused when Jeff put it to them, how would the vote have changed if Rodney had been in the F3 and not Carolyn....and Jenn raised her hand that he would have voted for Rodney? Da fuq???? 

 

I loved Probst calling Dan out during the reunion. I hate when people are all, "Editing, editing, I'm not a bad guy, I swear". So yea, here's the full scene....no talk of "Your mama jokes. Caught. I still think Dan is gross, but at least he humbled himself and apologized. However, I was waiting for some talk of all the nasty shit Rodney said as well. Oh well, I guess I will settle for his petulant ass finally getting a birthday cake. 

 

All in all, while I didn't like a great many of them, I found this to be a very satisfying, enjoyable finale. 

[CarolMK]

I'm also happy that Shane isn't returning. My 17 year old son and I have almost every season of Survivor on DVD, and I remember that not only did Shane threaten to quit more than once, he seemed batshit crazy in a lot of his footage.

I'm excited to see Andrew Savage and Jeff Varner return.

[riverheightsnancy]

As much as I enjoyed Shane and his Blackberry, the reason that I did not vote for him was because he just seemed much too erratic and really on that edge where it was not funny to watch after a certain point. I really cannot imagine what it was like in person (well actually I can, I have worked with patients like this-they put everyone on edge).  It reminded me of when Brandon Hantz was in his second season. To me (as a psych professional) that we were seeing pathology (whatever it could be) and that was upsetting and disturbing to watch. Shane continually says that he will kill people if they cross him and there is a bit of an edge to it that makes my radar go up. (e.g., Dan saying that he wanted to kill Shirin for being annoying was completely different than the intonation and the way Shane would say it). In my recollection there have been at least 5 - 10 people that I really thought should have been pulled from the game based on signs of psychological distress. Brandon and Shane were two of those in my view. 

[Haleth]

Thank you for you for your loyalty even when you don't like everybody.

 

Wow.  TPTB must have gotten tons of negative feedback from fans if Probst even made a passing reference to it.  So much for the delusion of "best season ever!"

 

As for the 3 mysogynist idiots, Will still doesn't get it.  You don't apologize to someone by lecturing them about how they need to be ready and willing to accept it.  That is up to Shirrin.  Loved that Jeff pulled no punches when it came to Dan, but of course that was only because of his behavior after the show aired and had nothing to do with his behavior during the filming.  Rodney looked ridiculous in his clownish suit.  And even more ridiculous with the birthday accessories.

 

Next season?  Like many I'm surprised Carolyn and Shane didn't make it.  I'd hoped Kass would not, so ugh.  So glad Tasha and Spencer did.  And I may be one of the few people on the planet that likes Terry.  Like Mike he had to keep winning to stay in it.  Should be an interesting season.

 

She came across as cold, calculating and unlikeable

 

Is that the opposite of cool, calm, and collective?

Edited May 21, 2015 by Haleth

[ghoulina]

I have to partly defend Will. While he went way over the top in ripping Shirin, we seem to forget that Shirin started the conflict and was way out of line with him.

He sacrificed HIS reward and shared the food with her and the rest of the tribe, and she had the gaul to falsely accuse him of holding back some of the food (which would have been his right to do anyway).

Perhaps a "victim of domestic violence and verbal assault" should have more empathy for others and should not viciously attack their character, without cause.

 

But Shirin didn't viciously attack his character. A few of the tribe members were speculating that he hid a portion of the food, mainly Mike and Jenn. Shirin was with them during this conversation, but she was by no means the ring leader, or running around camp telling everyone else. I really would have liked it addressed why Will ONLY went on the attack against Shirin, and not the other people who were questioning his character. 

 

And I never once saw Shirin react "visciously" to him. Despite Will stepping out of the game and attacking her on a VERY personal level, she remained very calm and collected. 

 

 

 

 

Will still doesn't get it.  You don't apologize to someone by lecturing them about how they need to be ready and willing to accept it.

 

Will is really full of shit. He seems to love to just get a little dig in where he can. At FTC Sierra asked him what qualities he saw in the other two that he would like to have himself, and he starts off by mentioning Mike's "work ethic", but then dovetails that into talking about how bossy and controlling Mike was. Which, maybe that's true, but that wasn't the question and it just makes YOU look like the asshole. 

Edited May 21, 2015 by ghoulina

[ProfCrash]

Yeah, it was ugly out there. Jeff has been talking about the Reunion for three weeks. They know how people responded. Dan made things worse for himself in his interviews. Will is lucky that he didn't go out before the final 5 because I think Will would have been in the same position as Dan.

 

Dan got hammered because he strongly blamed the editing and the people reporting on the show. He flat out went called Dalton Ross, Rob C, and Gordon Holmes on their coverage of him. You don't go after three of the bigger names in Survivor Coverage and repeatedly blame the editing and talk about the footage they didn't show and complain that they didn't show you crying on day 2 and not expect Jeff to eviscerate you on national television.

 

Will had not interviewed yet so he didn't build up CBS's ire. And Will had one shockingly awful moment. Other then that, Will seems to have been a dead fish floating on the water that no one cared to eat but was happy to maneuver around to help their games. Will should be thrilled that Shirin is on Season 31 because it means that he will not have to deal with her rebutals after his interviews and by the time she is back it will be forgotten by most folks.

 

I am not surprised Carolyn didn't make it. She was under the radar the entire season. The few times we saw her she was being smug (Sitting at camp when everyone else was looking for the idol because she knew she had it, telling Shirin she and Max were annoying while sitting in the shelter, generally looking smug at tribal, and when she finally was shown speaking at tribal it was pretty straight forward "6-3, duh") We didn't see Carolyn trying to court people or trying to get to know folks. I came to respect her game at the end, she won challenges and played idols and handled the four votes perfectly, but she was not a mover or a shaker. She was a number for a long time and someone that was seen as a floater by her own alliance. Her edit was not exactly favorable.

[Primetimer]

The results of the fan vote for Survivor Season 31’s all-star cast are revealed. ...Oh yeah, and someone won Season 30 too.

Read the story

[alexa]

I was just wondering if something had changed in regard to when you can post?  Typically the topic is closed until the show is over, so that there isn't the ongoing during episode chatter.  Perhaps this one was handled differently for some reason?

[ProfCrash]

alexa: I think that was more of a TWoP thing. I could be wrong though.