S02.E03: The Nightcomers

[Meredith Quill]

Episode Synopsis:

 

In a flashback, Vanessa meets The Cut-Wife, who teaches her how to harness her powers. Isolated at her lonely cottage on the moors, The Cut-Wife quickly realizes the extent of Vanessa’s powers and warns her of the danger that lies ahead and the evil that pursues her.

[Primetimer]

You knew Vanessa had powers, but did you know she received on-the-job witch training? Here's what else we learned this week in Vanessa's second flashback episode!

Read the story

[I-Kare]

I realize this was an important part of Vanessa's journey and we learned things we needed to learn, but it feels like the entire episode could have been wrapped up in 20 minutes to the same effect and we could have moved on to something else.

[Iamsweetdee]

Don't know about anyone else, but I watched this one in about 20 minutes.

[crimsongrl]

I'm already tired of the witches. The only storyline I care less about is Dorian and his sexual adventures.

I hope the team forms a real plan next week. Maybe take out one of the witchy daughters and let Madame Kali suffer a bit.

[Glade]

I liked this episode, but yes, there are other present-day stories I am eager to see.  This did make me want to rewatch season one's appearance by Madam Kali to see if any of this back story could be read.   Meanwhile Victor, Dorian, and perhaps Ethan could use character-building flashback episodes (or half-episodes) of their own.

[Bec]

Absolutely. Vanessa has gotten two episodes that are all her so far? And Victor, Dorian, and Ethan - not even one, right? Unless I'm forgetting something?

 

Okay, I wasn't very excited about yet another all Vanessa all the time flashback episode, but I did really like the Cut-Wife. My feels at the end of her! All the feels! I would be tempted to burn that town to the ground to avenge her if I were Vanessa. So I don't know why people (on the show) keep saying Vanessa might be evil. I don't think so. I'm more evil than her.

 

When the Cut-Wife told Vanessa she was in danger, my inner dialogue was "Vanessa, you in danger, girl!"

 

How did Vanessa manage not to finish her sentence for her when she started quoting Shakespeare? I did not have such restraint. As soon as she started "By the pricking of my thumbs…" I cut right in: "Something wicked this way comes!" and then laughed my ass off.

 

Sometimes I make my own entertainment!

[teddysmom]

I loved this episode. Patti Lupone was amazing. And the fact she's Evelyn's sister and they're in a feud over Vanessa? Vanessa "interning" under her?

I do agree that it's time for the Scoobies to kick some Nightcomers' ass. F*** those bitches.

I don't think it stalls the momentum, there's a reason we need this information. Just sit tight, it will all be explained.

the local men send these girls to The Cut-Wife, and then spit on her when they pass each other on the road.

 

Kind of like certain members of the House GOP, 

[diebartdie]

I really loved this episode, loved the character of Joan Clayton with her weird orange and green eyes, loved her tutelage of Vanessa, loved taking a break from all the men folk and the men folk pain, loved that when all is said and done Vanessa is motivated by pure love for Mina, loved that it was a powerful feminist story. It was horrifying witnessing the end of the cut wife, it was amusing witnessing the degradation of the tin pot dictator of that town but I still loathe Madam Kali. It was dreadful but interesting the contrast of Joan being branded with the sign of the devil by a woman she loved vs Vanessa being branded with the sign of jesus by strange men who hated her for "not being them". While I agree this episode didnt seem to advance the main story (we'll see whether or not that's true as the season unspools), this may be my favorite episode of the entire show, season 1 included.

[Latverian Diplomat]

I was glad to have this episode, for a couple of reasons.

 

One, we really needed a "good witch" to balance all the over the top evil of this season's antagonists. And supernatural elements aside, the Cut-wife is the type of person who was a victim of witch hunts.

 

Secondly, I want Vanessa to be a fighter, not a damsel in distress. So, I liked seeing someone actually train her and strengthen her and prepare her, and NOT promise to protect her (because they can't).

[AzureOwl]

This may feel like nitpicking, but there’s a small plot hole this episode. If the Cut-wife’s land was given to her by Oliver Cromwell and she’s been living there for centuries, how is it that the locals haven’t noticed that she’s the next best thing to immortal?

[blixie]

 

how is it that the locals haven’t noticed that she’s the next best thing to immortal?

 

 

Well they have noticed, they all think she is a witch and she is spoken of far and wide to London even, and locals go to to her for help, and are generally scared of her. 

 

I was glad to hear the Cut Wife admit that Vanessa is extremely powerful, but the nature of her power is in flux, and that was WHY she gave her the help, to keep help her fight for the Daywalker side of her power, even if it was mostly to spite Evelyn. I also liked that this helped explain why, in the face of all she's seen, Vanessa still clings to her Catholicism and her beliefs, as she was counciled that a loss of faith could push her into Evelyn and The Maters clutches.

Edited May 18, 2015 by blixie

[spaceghostess]

Like last season's booby hatch episode, I found this one painful, but necessary.

 

That said, I could have lived without seeing Patti LuPone--whose image from NYC ads for Broadway's Evita (co-starring Mandy Patinkin as Che!) is an integral part of my childhood t.v. memoryscape--tarred and burned alive. Still, excellent casting. She's an actress I never thought I'd see on this show; what a wonderful surprise.

 

Pros: LuPone; the peeling back of another layer of the exquisite onion that is Vanessa Ives; valuable real estate holdings, yay!

 

Cons: Crispy! Lupone; horrible people doing horrible things; incomplete narrative bookending--If the episode begins with Vanessa sitting on the bed with Ethan to relate her story, it should conclude with Vanessa (hair now dry, Ethan looking gobsmacked) sitting on the bed, concluding said story. See Shakespeare for "story within a story" done right. Sorry, it's a pet peeve of mine.

 

Jury's out on Chekov's Book of Evil that Makes the User Ring the Evil Bell that Can't Be Un-rung.

 

I'm SO ready for an Ethan-centric episode (or three), immediately followed by a long-overdue Sembene ep. C'mon, Show!

 

P.S. Been thinking about (original) character names:

Ethan (strength & constancy) Chandler [candlemaker (hence, light bringer)]; Vanessa (butterfly) Ives (Derived from the hermit St. Ives?), and Caliban's alias, John (graciousness; grace or mercy of god) Clare (light) . . .

 

Thoughts?

 

Edited to fix wonky spacing and messed-up link

Edited May 18, 2015 by spaceghostess

[Latverian Diplomat]

This may feel like nitpicking, but there’s a small plot hole this episode. If the Cut-wife’s land was given to her by Oliver Cromwell and she’s been living there for centuries, how is it that the locals haven’t noticed that she’s the next best thing to immortal?

It's an interesting question From their perspective there's always been a Cut-wife living in that creepy house on the moor, but it can't be the same woman, can it? It's not like they have old snapshots to compare. In that sense, it takes an immortal to tell an immortal, or at least, to be sure.

 

And, Cromwell must have been in a bad way. He was too big a dick (IMHO) to give land to an old lady in perpetuity unless he really owed her something.

[Ravenya003]

Well, I loved it. Everything I've come to expect from this show.

 

However, I would still rank it below "Closer Than Sisters" in the Whole Episode Flashback category. "Closer Than Sisters" gave us hugely important insight on Vanessa and Malcolm's background, as well as the demon that haunts Vanessa. Here? I'm not sure what we learned that we didn't know before. The book will certainly be a Chekhov's Gun, and the significance of the scorpion is explained, as is where Vanessa got her tarot cards - but I was hoping for some definitive answers on WHAT exactly is happening to Vanessa (basically, the as-yet-unexplained relationship between the devil/Vanessa's demon/Dracula/Mina's "master"/Amonet/Amon-Ra). I mean, that was why she WENT there in the first place, and by the time she left I feel the only thing she'd picked up was a traumatic experience and some herb-lore. 

 

Still, it was a great forty-five minutes of television - so atmospheric and haunting. I don't know how the show does it, but watching a singular episode is like watching a movie - it seems to go on for so much longer than 45 minutes, and it packs in so much despite its slow pacing. 

 

I did notice though that they made a point of ensuring that Vanessa never saw Madame Kali's face. It maintains the continuity that they never met before that ill-fated seance. 

[eyewatchtv]

Riveting episode. Vanessa's backstory is like no other and Eva Greene, as always, was excellent.

[LittleIggy]

Enough Vanessa already!

[Bec]

Watching the Cut-Wife burn was horrible, but this show excels at making us watch horrible images and having it be a powerful and necesscary part of the story. Kind of like the baby thing last week. Except I think what happened to the Cut-Wife was worse. I mean, they tarred her first, those bastards! They didn't just kill her, they took extra steps to make it as painful and torturous as they can.

 

Still want to burn that town to the ground. To. The. ground.

[Maum]

The Cut-Wife had the same eyes as Caliban... That explained Vanessa's 'you have beautiful eyes' comment.

I was confused because I was convinced at first that the Lord of the manor (can't remember his name) was Vanessa's father (whom we saw briefly last season).

I thought maybe Evelyn had seduced him to get to his daughter.

I take it she managed to stay hidden enough that Vanessa didn't recognise her when they met at the seance?

[diebartdie]

Well she had one eye similar to Caliban's, the other was green, nice contrasting colors symbolizing the dual nature of such a creature that can live hundreds of years, wielding incredible powers yet living so simply and always trying to stay in the light. Contrast that with Evelyn who gave into the darkness hundreds of years ago so lives in wealth, comfort and beauty with no dichotomy to bother her, and two eyes the same flat brown.  

[LittleIggy]

Evelyn's eternal youth must be running out.

[TiffanyNichelle]

I realize this was an important part of Vanessa's journey and we learned things we needed to learn, but it feels like the entire episode could have been wrapped up in 20 minutes to the same effect and we could have moved on to something else.

I agree. While I loved Vanessa's backstory episode last season, this one was a snoozer. All I got out of it is she now has a dangerous book and that Evelyn has been after her for years. Got it. Oh and humans will do awful things to people when they are in a group.

[Maum]

I don't know if she has the book though. When she left it looked like she'd left it behind. She might have to go back and fetch it.

[Kat]

 

I'm SO ready for an Ethan-centric episode (or three), immediately followed by a long-overdue Sembene ep. C'mon, Show!

Gosh, yes! I mean, I get that the writer etc are probably trying to keep Ethan's full background a mystery for as long as possible, and they most likely have a great plan all outlined for the season, but I really think the viewing audience would benefit from an episode dedicated to Ethan. 

And if they want to throw in another sex scene with him and Dorian? I certainly won't protest!

 

I don't know why I was surprised at how awesome Patti Lupone was in this role, but she seriously made the character of the Cut-Wife come alive.

I'm loving season 2 of this show already way more than I expected.

[islandgal140]

However, I would still rank it below "Closer Than Sisters" in the Whole Episode Flashback category. "Closer Than Sisters" gave us hugely important insight on Vanessa and Malcolm's background, as well as the demon that haunts Vanessa. Here? I'm not sure what we learned that we didn't know before. The book will certainly be a Chekhov's Gun, and the significance of the scorpion is explained, as is where Vanessa got her tarot cards - but I was hoping for some definitive answers on WHAT exactly is happening to Vanessa (basically, the as-yet-unexplained relationship between the devil/Vanessa's demon/Dracula/Mina's "master"/Amonet/Amon-Ra). I mean, that was why she WENT there in the first place, and by the time she left I feel the only thing she'd picked up was a traumatic experience and some herb-lore. 

 

 

I thought a not altogether small clue was Joan saying that Lucifer was not the only one to fall. What that means? Anyone's guess. Another clue is that we now know for sure that Vanessa is not fully human. Joan stated only those that are fully human can pass the stones and Vanessa could not. Is she not human just because she was born that way or because something is inhabiting her? Don't know. I am thinking whichever scenario, whatever it is, it was the other one to fall with Lucifer and maybe that is why the devil is so keen to have her and why he will never stop searching for her. Somehow consolidating with her will give him full dominion over man and earth. 

 

I just hope this doesn't descend into Supernatural with angels vs demons. No thanks.

 

Madame Kali and her coven must die.  Helen McCory looks like she is having a hell of a time though.

 

Right now I will settle for a "W" in the column of Team Vanessa. 

 

Patti LuPone is an underrated acting goddess. With his love for mature actresses, wonder why Ryan Murphy (although his material isn't consistently good) never tapped her for his American Horror Story series. 

 

Co-sign that although the Vanessa and the actress who plays her is great,  it is time for the other characters, especially Chandler and Sir Malcolm/Sembene to get some shine.

Edited May 19, 2015 by islandgal140

[Iamsweetdee]

I just hope this doesn't descend into Supernatural with angels vs demons. No thanks.

 

Isn't it pretty much already there. 

[TiffanyNichelle]

 

Patti LuPone is an underrated acting goddess. With his love for mature actresses, wonder why Ryan Murphy (although his material isn't consistently good) never tapped her for his American Horror Story series. 

He did. She was on the Coven season. Not a huge part but she was there.

[FurryFury]

Well, I'm not going to complain it was all Vanessa. For me, she's the center of the show and the real story the writers want to tell. Nothing else on it is as compelling as her and some storylines (Frankenstein's creatures and Dorian Gray especially) feel like complete filler.

 

That said, I'm not a huge fan of Madame Kali. But I liked Joan and her bond with Vanessa a lot and all scenes with them kept me glued to the screen. Eva Green was fantastic as usual.

[emma675]

While I think this could have been told in 20 minutes, it was good back story to have and I appreciate Vanessa's struggle even more now. I do wish they had book-ended the episode with Vanessa and Ethan, though. And I do agree, Vanessa should have burned that town to ashes after what they did to the Cut Wife.

 

Madame Kali needs to be taken down hard. She freaks me out.

[raven]

 

but I really think the viewing audience would benefit from an episode dedicated to Ethan.

Yes, please!  I know I would benefit.

 

OK, I covered my eyes with the rabbit, why did it have to squeal??

 

Still I enjoyed this episode; Patti Lupone was very good and had a great rapport with Vanessa. "My name is Joan Clayton" :(  I caught the throw away remark about full humans being able to pass by the rocks, so Vanessa must not be fully human, or is supernaturally tainted I guess.  Did Vanessa fall with Lucifer?  or is she a descendant somehow?  I thought we got some interesting clues.

 

The whole crowd standing in judgement was so tense, I just didn't realize how awful what they were planning was.  Joan didn't seem to scream though so maybe she was able to use her powers/knowledge to suppress the pain?  That's what I tell myself anyway. 

 

 

Helen McCory looks like she is having a hell of a time though.

 

For sure - she looks like she's having so much fun, especially watching the poor cows tip over.

[rozen]

Ah, so Vanessa knows Verbis Diablo because the Cut-wife taught her, I guess she was just lying earlier when she said she didn't know what she was saying?

 

For me, this is the Vanessa Ives show, so I'm down for all Eva Green tearing it up, all the time. She is such a fearless actress. I don't think anyone else on the cast can go toe-to-toe with her, so I imagine they're frontloading all of Vanessa's backstory so it doesn't distract from the rest. 

 

I thought Ethan's last ditch efforts were only a temporary solution. Is Vanessa now permanently free of possession? Or is the clock ticking down to when the devil returns and drags her into Kali's lair? Actually, I'm surprised it allowed her to learn witchcraft from the Cut-Wife. I was cringing the whole time, expecting her to get taken over and rip the witch to pieces like she tried to do to that psychiatrist. She certainly seemed to have sexual trauma in her past, if Kali is the one who branded her. 

 

So that backasswards town traded a herd of cattle for a herd of dead daughters once they start dropping in childbirth. Grats, brahs, way to prioritize. 

 

Maybe Vanessa is a descendant of Lillith? 

 

Still holding onto my conspiracy theory of this being a fight between Death and the Devil with Vanessa as the football.

[Door]

I loved this episode. I was happy to see Patti Lupone randomly appear and be badass, per usual. This backstory was needed, imo. We need to know at least a bit of why Vanessa knows the tarot and can read people the way she does. Also, I must confess I liked the episode because it explained that Vanessa is a "Little Scorpion." As a Scorpio, I enjoyed that. 

 

Now I want to go back and rewatch The Seance to see how much, if anything, Madame Kali gives away. 

Edited May 20, 2015 by Door

[paramitch]

This episode broke my heart, but in a good way. And right from the start, it's beautifully set up with Ethan's quiet, respectful entrance into Vanessa's room and space. I especially loved Josh Hartnett's decisions here -- he walks softly, he looks to her for cues, and then, even when he finally questions her, he whispers. I found it lovely and strange and really perfect. (I cannot believe this is the same guy I used to make faces at in terrible Michael Bay movies.)

 

I loved it. It was a genuinely new chapter for Vanessa that (much as I love her) managed to go beyond her being a victim of an outside force and was instead a graphic example of how much will and strength she actually carries within herself. It was like a perfect little gothic horror story, with plenty of genuine magic and sadness and pathos. I loved Patti LuPone here and how she invested this coarse, frightening woman with so much strange emotion, sympathy, and courage in the end. Her eyes on Vanessa's at the end will haunt me for a very long time. 

 

For me, "Penny Dreadful" has always, always been about moments and emotions and atmosphere. For me, I was thrilled with 60 minutes. I would have been just as thrilled with 100. It was a gorgeous chapter that told us a lot about Vanessa and moved her along from "let's watch her endure untold torments" and into "I am the mistress of my fate, underestimate me at your peril." I LOVED the moment at the end when Vanessa is so fixated on Joan that she never once seems to consider that she herself may be in danger. She disregards it. It doesn't matter. And even when they brand her, and the awful lord tells her to "Scream for me," she doesn't. She lets out a groan of pain but nothing else. Again, Vanessa is so much stronger than her body. That's what fascinates me. She looks like a fainting Victorian princess. But she is far more beautiful and wonderful than that, not least because EG is totally willing to play up her strangeness and distortion (much as I adore Claire Danes, for me, Eva Green makes the risk of "Homeland" Carrie's "ugly crying" sessions seem tame). 

 

So I don't know why people (on the show) keep saying Vanessa might be evil. I don't think so. I'm more evil than her.

 

My take on Vanessa's occasional conflicting "evil" reads by others is that -- apologies for the grotesque analogy -- but that it's very much like a human being with a parasite. She gives conflicting readings not because of who she is, but because of what is living within her. In this case, a power that seems on some level to be aware and actively malicious.

 

I really loved this episode, loved the character of Joan Clayton with her weird orange and green eyes, loved her tutelage of Vanessa, loved taking a break from all the men folk and the men folk pain, loved that when all is said and done Vanessa is motivated by pure love for Mina, loved that it was a powerful feminist story. It was horrifying witnessing the end of the cut wife, it was amusing witnessing the degradation of the tin pot dictator of that town but I still loathe Madam Kali. It was dreadful but interesting the contrast of Joan being branded with the sign of the devil by a woman she loved vs Vanessa being branded with the sign of jesus by strange men who hated her for "not being them". While I agree this episode didnt seem to advance the main story (we'll see whether or not that's true as the season unspools), this may be my favorite episode of the entire show, season 1 included.

I felt much the same way. I have no doubt that this actually factors into the big story of the season in lots of ways, so that worked fine for me. I love your analogy here of Vanessa branded in hate versus Joan branded in love. Yet both were equal betrayals and both resulted in the women being marked by the powers they had once held sacred above all others and then renounced.

 

I agree with you on the feminist front myself. Vanessa is traditionally the character we girls see off to the side, fainting picturesquely while men flock to save her (think of Lucy or Mina in Stoker's original "Dracula"). Instead, she is consistently given the primary point of view, she is presented as a complex and courageous character who must also battle her inner demons, yet who is refreshingly warm, honest, sexually adventurous (but always a lady), and who is consistently willing to put her life on the line for those she loves. As she did for Mina. As she does for poor Joan, here. As she did for her friends last season.

 

One, we really needed a "good witch" to balance all the over the top evil of this season's antagonists. And supernatural elements aside, the Cut-wife is the type of person who was a victim of witch hunts.

 

Secondly, I want Vanessa to be a fighter, not a damsel in distress. So, I liked seeing someone actually train her and strengthen her and prepare her, and NOT promise to protect her (because they can't).

Wonderfully said! It was very interesting to see Madame Kali fairly transparently -- we see her love and hate, we see her voraciousness, her twisted love, her contempt for men. And yet there are spaces she cannot enter because of the choices she has made. I really love that (and huge kudos to Helen McRory, and actress I adore, and who can here look beautiful or disturbing, old or young, vengeful or impish, as needed. I just love her.

 

Meanwhile: Most of all, I adore Vanessa -- she is everything that is both right and wrong with gothic literature, and I love the way the show is circumventing that in these really striking creative ways.

 

This may feel like nitpicking, but there’s a small plot hole this episode. If the Cut-wife’s land was given to her by Oliver Cromwell and she’s been living there for centuries, how is it that the locals haven’t noticed that she’s the next best thing to immortal?

It worked for me. How many visitors did Joan probably get? One or two a week, a month? People barely looked at her as it was. She was a thing, not a person. I can fully believe this woman lived in a hut and worked (however roughly) in care of the women there and yet people barely knew who she was or what she looked like.

 

That said, I could have lived without seeing Patti LuPone--whose image from NYC ads for Broadway's Evita (co-starring Mandy Patinkin as Che!) is an integral part of my childhood t.v. memoryscape--tarred and burned alive. Still, excellent casting. She's an actress I never thought I'd see on this show; what a wonderful surprise.

 

Pros: LuPone; the peeling back of another layer of the exquisite onion that is Vanessa Ives; valuable real estate holdings, yay!

 

Cons: Crispy! Lupone; horrible people doing horrible things; incomplete narrative bookending--If the episode begins with Vanessa sitting on the bed with Ethan to relate her story, it should conclude with Vanessa (hair now dry, Ethan looking gobsmacked) sitting on the bed, concluding said story. See Shakespeare for "story within a story" done right. Sorry, it's a pet peeve of mine.

 

Jury's out on Chekov's Book of Evil that Makes the User Ring the Evil Bell that Can't Be Un-rung.

 

P.S. Been thinking about (original) character names:

Ethan (strength & constancy) Chandler [candlemaker (hence, light bringer)]; Vanessa (butterfly) Ives (Derived from the hermit St. Ives?), and Caliban's alias, John (graciousness; grace or mercy of god) Clare (light) . . .

Great observations! My suspicion is that this may have very well ended with Ethan and Vanessa on paper, or even in first edit, but that the ending was far more powerful with Vanessa simply taking her grim leave and heading off into the dangerous future. Dramatically, it worked for me.

I cannot tell you how much I love your name originations and explorations. I definitely hope Logan was keeping those in mind when putting together the arcs of his characters. And agreed that LuPone was simply stunning.

 

Well, I loved it. Everything I've come to expect from this show.

 

However, I would still rank it below "Closer Than Sisters" in the Whole Episode Flashback category. "Closer Than Sisters" gave us hugely important insight on Vanessa and Malcolm's background, as well as the demon that haunts Vanessa. Here? I'm not sure what we learned that we didn't know before. The book will certainly be a Chekhov's Gun, and the significance of the scorpion is explained, as is where Vanessa got her tarot cards - but I was hoping for some definitive answers on WHAT exactly is happening to Vanessa (basically, the as-yet-unexplained relationship between the devil/Vanessa's demon/Dracula/Mina's "master"/Amonet/Amon-Ra). I mean, that was why she WENT there in the first place, and by the time she left I feel the only thing she'd picked up was a traumatic experience and some herb-lore. 

 

Still, it was a great forty-five minutes of television - so atmospheric and haunting. I don't know how the show does it, but watching a singular episode is like watching a movie - it seems to go on for so much longer than 45 minutes, and it packs in so much despite its slow pacing. 

I totally agree -- this show wears me out. I watch one episode and it feels as if no time has gone by, but also as if I just watched a full, rich and totally complex feature film. Just wonderful stuff.

 

I did think this gave us a huge amount of information -- we know that Vanessa is in some ways a Daywalker and witch, and a born mystic and enchantress. We now know how long she's been hunted, by whom, and how she learned everything from the angelic/demonic language to her talent for the Tarot (and I loved the symmetry that Vanessa deals out the Tarot just as Joan once did. I also loved the bigger picture of the story -- for me, "Closer Than Sisters" is an exercise in penance, in victimhood as Vanessa tries to pay for what she feels is her own evil (her sexual adventurousness and curiosity -- very Victorian).

 

Yet to me this episode was its opposite -- about the price women pay for expressing that sexuality (babies or pain and potential death and guilt or social ostracism and threat of rape), the price of power (especially for women), about what some women are willing to do to keep it, about what others, especially men, are willing to do to obliterate it, especially in the face of their own fears. I never loved Vanessa more than when she bit the lord's hand and then held the knife at his throat. She's a freaking goddess. Even as they burned Joan, her only thought was for Joan, for her friend, this old woman who had taken her in. I found it incredibly moving.

 

Well she had one eye similar to Caliban's, the other was green, nice contrasting colors symbolizing the dual nature of such a creature that can live hundreds of years, wielding incredible powers yet living so simply and always trying to stay in the light. Contrast that with Evelyn who gave into the darkness hundreds of years ago so lives in wealth, comfort and beauty with no dichotomy to bother her, and two eyes the same flat brown.  

 

 

I don't know why I was surprised at how awesome Patti Lupone was in this role, but she seriously made the character of the Cut-Wife come alive.

I'm loving season 2 of this show already way more than I expected.

I am too -- I'm finding it very rich and nuanced, and I appreciate the chance to delve further into these characters and their emotions. The key to me of "Penny Dreadful" has always been that at its core it is about a small group of incredibly gifted lonely people seeking solace. So every time one makes a connection I'm both thrilled and terrified for them -- I want these people to be happy. Most are truly decent people grappling with inner demons (and even Victor is simply seeking to undo death itself). These are definitely stories I find interesting.

 

I thought a not altogether small clue was Joan saying that Lucifer was not the only one to fall. What that means? Anyone's guess. Another clue is that we now know for sure that Vanessa is not fully human. Joan stated only those that are fully human can pass the stones and Vanessa could not. Is she not human just because she was born that way or because something is inhabiting her? Don't know. I am thinking whichever scenario, whatever it is, it was the other one to fall with Lucifer and maybe that is why the devil is so keen to have her and why he will never stop searching for her. Somehow consolidating with her will give him full dominion over man and earth. 

Really great speculations. I loved that line and found it very poetic. As with so much of this show, it could be taken either as a blessing... or as a curse. Or both.

Edited May 20, 2015 by paramitch

[shimarella]

I loved loved loved this episode. It was a completely self-contained gothic romance movie; so well done in all the ways. It definitely gave a bit of insight and backstory to Vanessa and Evelyn, without ringing all the bells and hitting us over the head with too much. Patti Lupone just killed it. That character was so theatrical in her language and gestures and yet she didnt feel like an overblown archetype. 

 

Last season's flashback was more solidly tied to the ongoing story, true, but this one just felt better done in every way, including how it was shot. They both added great value to the series. 

 

I would watch this one again. 

[Bec]

Even though I have to admit it's Victor's story I'm most interested in...

 

Agreed that Vanessa is certainly written as the center of the show. She is getting some very "hero's journey" material here, as some sort of chosen one with special powers that everyone wants, who struggles between good and evil. And the main villain is pretty much her opposite.

 

the ending was far more powerful with Vanessa simply taking her grim leave and heading off into the dangerous future. Dramatically, it worked for me.

Yes, I love that part.

 

There were some flashes of the blood scorpion on the stone and other stuff from this episode in the season premiere. It makes more sense now that I can put it in some kind of context. I was pretty confused when I first watched the premiere.

[FurryFury]

Agreed that Vanessa is certainly written as the center of the show. She is getting some very "hero's journey" material here, as some sort of chosen one with special powers that everyone wants, who struggles between good and evil. And the main villain is pretty much her opposite.

 

I think that the main villain will ultimately be Vanessa herself - or rather her fear of herself. While The Devil (and his servants) may seem like objective characters, he's really just a big metaphor, and she will have to understand and come to terms with those parts of herself that she associates with him (for example, her powers and her sexuality). The show's called "Penny Dreadful", I think, because it's a rather subtle meta on the Victorian society and how it's come to be viewed. I think Vanessa's first flashback was a commentary on fear of sex that's one of the most well-known characteristics of that era. Magic, and fear of it, was also a traditional metaphor for men's fear of female agency, so it makes sense that Vanessa's story and the character herself will tackle this theme next.

 

It's stuff like this that makes me believe this is her story, much more than any other character's. No other story is layered like that and weaved in the fabric of the show. Also, it's telling she's the only original character in the main cast (well, I'm not sure if Sir Malcolm was in Dracula, never read the original book).

[Ravenya003]

The show's called "Penny Dreadful", I think, because it's a rather subtle meta on the Victorian society and how it's come to be viewed. I think Vanessa's first flashback was a commentary on fear of sex that's one of the most well-known characteristics of that era. Magic, and fear of it, was also a traditional metaphor for men's fear of female agency, so it makes sense that Vanessa's story and the character herself will tackle this theme next.

 

 

I think this is on-point, especially as the reason penny dreadfuls were called as such is not just because of the price, but because of the concern the general public had over what their contents would do to the lower classes (who were the main audience). There was plenty of pearl-clutching over the fact that the "rabble" were filling their heads with stories of murder and monsters and blood-thirstiness. 

[Bec]

I like the idea of Vanessa's character for all the reasons y'all bring up, but the execution could use a little work. Right now it's like she's doing the same demonic voice/face over and over and over. And the show almost always has her doing it at length. That's why it feels old hat already.

[ganesh]

Kind of like certain members of the House GOP

 

You have won the internet. I really was disgusted at how the town despised Joan but still sent the women to her. 

 

 

I thought a not altogether small clue was Joan saying that Lucifer was not the only one to fall.

I have to think that Vanessa would somehow be tied to the others who fell, which was already stated, but that's what I thought when it was said on the show.

 

Nowadays, "acting" = actors saying lots and lots and lots of words. Shows are really overwritten. For being the main character in the episode Eva Green didn't have a ton of dialogue. More often than not, I think it's typically a better show when you tell the actors what the story is, where you're going, and then get out of the way and let them actually act. This was a really good example. I like Game of Thrones, but so so so much talking talking talking all the time. 

 

I was a little worried that Eva Green is so totally method that she cut herself and made the scorpion in her own blood. 

 

I also kind of wished that they cut back to the present to show Ethan sitting there, like, "uh ok. I wasn't expecting *that*."

 

It could also be that because of who Vanessa is (that we are learning) that the others are drawn to her. 

[darkestboy]

I loved that episode. My favourite so far this season. Largely standalone but clearly set up with stuff that will pay off later on like that book Vanessa was given at the end.

Liked that we got an origin story for the Scorpion as well, very cleverly done too.

Cut Wife was a brilliant guest character and both Patti LuPone and Eva Green were captivating to watch. They played off each other so well.

I did like that the Cut Wife and Madame Kali were sisters as well and that the latter ensured her sister was burned to death too was a nasty twist but expected.

I did miss the rest of the cast a little but this was a superb piece of writing and acting and beautifully shot as well, 9/10

[Dobian]

I guess the mid-season Vanessa flashback episode is going to be a staple.  This one was terrific, a classic piece of gothic horror.  The slow, steady build-up to that horrific final scene was excellently paced.  Patti LuPone was fantastic as the cut-wife, Eva Green stands out again, and Helen McCrory's smooth malevolence is captivating and cringe-worthy at the same time.

[tennisgurl]

Normally, I get irritated when a show focuses too much on one character, but in this case I`ll make an exception, because a. Vanessa has always been the the hero of the show to me, so it makes sense that they would focus on Vanessa, and b. because Vanessa is awesome. I adore her on every level. She rocks. I loved this episode. This is a show that is not so interested in a super complicated, fast moving plot, it loves spending times on rich dialogue, characters, and atmosphere, and its amazing. Its really like nothing else on TV right now, which, in a time where more and more TV is trying to be like other, more successful shows, is very impressive. 

 

 

I agree with you on the feminist front myself. Vanessa is traditionally the character we girls see off to the side, fainting picturesquely while men flock to save her (think of Lucy or Mina in Stoker's original "Dracula"). Instead, she is consistently given the primary point of view, she is presented as a complex and courageous character who must also battle her inner demons, yet who is refreshingly warm, honest, sexually adventurous (but always a lady), and who is consistently willing to put her life on the line for those she loves.

I love this observation! Its one of the many things that I love about this show, and find so fascinating. Every character is such a Gothic Novel archetype (pale, posses waif, tough American cowboy, mad scientist, great white hunter), but each character subverts their archetype, the more we get to know them. Vanessa is the fainting waif who is actually strong, tough, and powerful, Sir Malcolm is the great explorer who did horrible things, and is haunted by his mistakes, Ethan is the brash American, who is actually very gentle and empathetic (and bisexual), and Victor is the mad scientist with the heart of a poet who wants to understand death out of a humanistic instinct. And is kind of a dork. That`s why I do want them to do more with Sembene and Dorian. I feel like they could do so much with them.

 

And I feel like they will. In a time where I trust few shows, I actually do trust this one. Trust me when I say that is high praise.  

 

That being said, when do we get our Ethan flashbacks? I still cant believe that Ethan, the guy I thought would be the asshole view point character who got to much screen time, became my second favorite character, after Vanessa. 

Edited May 21, 2015 by tennisgurl

[FurryFury]

I'm not sure who's my second favorite character is (I think I like Victor, Ethan and Sir Malcolm equally), but yeah, it's time to get more backstory on Ethan. And Sembene deserves something really cool, too.

I'm just annoyed we spend SO MUCH TIME on Caliban and Brona. I mean, I don't hate Brona, but all this stuff is so far removed from the core of the show that it's bound to be annoying (at least for me).

[ganesh]

How about Vanessa literally getting branded by a hot iron and saying "ugh" like she stubbed her toe? I got a paper cut on my thumb and I was writhing around on the floor in abject pain. 

[Bort]

How about Vanessa literally getting branded by a hot iron and saying "ugh" like she stubbed her toe? I got a paper cut on my thumb and I was writhing around on the floor in abject pain.

That was the point. The guy wanted to hear her scream and she wouldn't give him the satisfaction.

[diebartdie]

Sembene deserves something really cool, too.

I'm just annoyed we spend SO MUCH TIME on Caliban and Brona. I mean, I don't hate Brona, but all this stuff is so far removed from the core of the show that it's bound to be annoying (at least for me).

I agree with this so so so much. Caliban is my least favorite character on this show, he just sucks. No freekin' reason for him to be all "oh woe is me, Im so hideously disfigured and I dont have a soul, boo hoo" Dude looks to have a scar, well look around, LOTS of people have scars and back then no one had plastic surgery. He doesn't have a soul? Prove ANYONE has a soul and then we can talk. He is literate, incredibly strong and has no fear of death, plus his freeky eyes are very attractive to some people. He just needs to get over himself and start living his life like everyone else manages to do somehow. He and Brona could disappear from the show and if I even noticed, I would be so damn happy about it.

[ganesh]

I know that was the point. I was saying Vanessa is BAMF even when being branded. 

[Slovenly Muse]

I LOVED this episode, for all the reasons elucidated above. This show never fails to push ahead with its story, even in flashback episodes, and there's no real sense that it they're making it up as they go along... Logan seems to really know where this is all going, and this season is taking off!

 

My one question is, if Kali wanted Vanessa badly enough to have her sister burned alive and get the people of the village to push past the protection on the house to get to Vanessa... then why did she let Vanessa just walk away afterward? Why not take her while she was shocked and weak and in pain from having been branded, or wait for her outside the cottage and nab her when she tried to leave? Joan said the Nightcomers were all very aware of Vanessa's movements from the time she crossed into their land. So why go to all the trouble of removing all the protections between them and her, and then not use that window they created to make their move? From the way Kali demanded that Joan send Vanessa out to them, it sounded like their goal was to take physical possession of her and deliver her to their master. And then they enacted a plan to get to Vanessa, and it worked. So then why didn't they take her? Why just let her go? I just found it so perplexing at the end when she woke up alone in the cottage and then just walked out the door and away, while the narration reminds us that the Nightcomers will hunt her for the rest of her life. Didn't they just win? Where were they?

 

I'm hoping this will be explained later on.

[For Cereals]

Loved the episode. Loved Patti Lupone. Most importantly, I loved the gray knitted sweater Vanessa was wearing. I'm not a goth or steampunk but I need it in my life.

[Jordan27]

Wow, Patti Lupone was outstanding.  Best guest role I've seen on a show this year.

The show is outstanding.  I can't say enough Eva Green, my new favorite actress.