S02.E21: S.O.S. (1) / S02.E22: S.O.S. (2)

[mac123x]

I laughed out loud at the Zach Snyder-esque "speed up, slow down" fight scene between Skye and Multiple-Woman.  Straight out of The 300.  It was thoroughly distracting. 

 

Also, when Lincoln and May were fighting off about a dozen of the clones:  "More of them will just keep coming"  "Unless we take out the source".  You're just waiting until now to say that?  The "source" was standing in the open the whole time, take her out immediately and avoid the bruises.

 

I'm convinced Jemma will be back as an anti-Inhuman weapon.  I just wonder if she'll be returned by the goo before anyone realizes she's gone.  Plopped back on the floor a few minutes later with no recollection of what happened.  The next day she shakes hands with Skye who immediately keels over dead.  I can dream, can't I?

[xqueenfrostine]

Not sure why 33 felt the need to be in May form as she went from one place to another, and Ward of all people should be aware of that possibility, but I did like that it happened because of May's trickery on the radio. That gives Ward another reason to hate May and drive his actions.

This was in the episode. May lead Kara to believe that there were other SHIELD agents in the building by talking into the radio, knowing Kara was listening, and telling people not to let their guard down until they see her face as one agent had already mistaken Kara for May just because of the way she looked from behind. Kara donned May's face thinking it would aid her in taking out more SHIELD agents (who weren't even really there). I agree Ward should have been more cautious, but I think he was just eager when he saw the opportunity to get the jump on "May" given how hard she beat his ass last year

[ottoDbusdriver]

I'm convinced Jemma will be back as an anti-Inhuman weapon.  I just wonder if she'll be returned by the goo before anyone realizes she's gone.

 

At the minimum I hope someone like Fitz notices that the door to the Monolith was left wide open, and wonders "hmmmm, where did Jemma go ?"

 

ETA: Especially after Mack made that remark that they weren't opening that box containing the Monolith for a 1000 years.

Edited May 14, 2015 by ottoDbusdriver

[kitlee625]

At the minimum I hope someone like Fitz notices that the door to the Monolith was left wide open, and wonders "hmmmm, where did Jemma go ?"

 

ETA: Especially after Mack made that remark that they weren't opening that box containing the Monolith for a 1000 years.

 

That line really makes it crazy that the Monolith just exploded out of its box and swallowed Simmons. Seriously, SHIELD doesn't have a better box?

[CathieA]

Does Tahiti implant knowledge as well as erase it?  Cal as a doctor of humans did not have enough education to be a veterinarian.  Veterinarians treat all species, not just one.

[tankgirl73]

I liked the theme of good-people-going-bad. Sometimes for good reasons.

Jiaying was a good person. Cal loved her sincerely. She was a 'healer' but she despised the way she needed to heal -- she would reject the sacrifices people made to her, but they would make them anyway. Then Whitehall ripped her apart. That damaged her. Cal was able to repair her body, but not her mind.

Cal was a good person. Everything he did was to protect his family and try to bring it back together. His newly-crazy wife wouldn't accept him anymore as he was, so he desperately tried to make himself stronger. Instead it made him crazy too.

Agent 33 was a good person. She got mind-f***ed by Hydra and then by Ward. Everything she did after that was out of a warped sense of needing closure, she felt betrayed by SHIELD/Bobbi. She honestly believed that what she and Ward shared was "love".

The miscellaneous Inhumans. They did not go to war because they had always hated humans and were just waiting for their chance to exterminate them. They went to war because they believed they were being hated and hunted by the humans. It was self-defense. Perhaps my favourite line/scene in the entire episode was when Lincoln stopped Skye from killing the redhead "source". He said "We're not bad - just misled." Literally and figuratively.

[DeLurker]

Jiaying was a good person. Cal loved her sincerely. She was a 'healer' but she despised the way she needed to heal -- she would reject the sacrifices people made to her, but they would make them anyway. Then Whitehall ripped her apart. That damaged her. Cal was able to repair her body, but not her mind.

Cal was a good person. Everything he did was to protect his family and try to bring it back together. His newly-crazy wife wouldn't accept him anymore as he was, so he desperately tried to make himself stronger. Instead it made him crazy too.

KM totally sold me on this.  And I loved that as much of a nutter as he was, he could still see the truth in somethings - like knowing Raina was manipulative and deceitful from the getgo.

[Mz Anthrope]

The goo container was compromised by Fitz. Gonzales had it for a long time without incident. Even REALShield would have noticed any missing Redshirts.

And didn't Fitz just put his hand up or on it and we heard a 'kerchunk'?  I was wondering if something he'd done (inadvertently or on purpose) unlocked the cube.  Hmm... Fitz with a super boss badass arc?  I could see the actor pulling it off :-)

 

 

Other odd thoughts (husband and I watched it last night):

Raina mentioned she was going to become an angel... a herald.  I wonder if she knew she needed to be killed to transform completely.  She said that this would be the last time Skye saw her (if I am remembering correctly), which indicates to me that she may still be able to communicate with her

 

Coulson said he had an idea for his hand.  I looked at my husband chuckling and said, "Wonder if he means a 3D model of Iron Man's hand?"  Something he and Deathlock came up with would also be really cool.  

 

Loved Lincoln's line about their not being bad, just misdirected.  Would love to see what he could do in Skye's "Secret Army"

 

Mac being "pulled back in" and Bobby calling it quits.  I don't know that Hunter will be able to let it go so easily.

 

Mae starting to walk away and stopping... said under my breath, "forgot your gun" and then she pulled it out.  I often wonder if my husband secretly wishes he could watch these alone first.  :-)

 

Ax Mac was absolutely awesome!  From start to finish the man showed up, stood up, and rocked it.  

 

Still an eyebrow arch on Fitz.  Coulson isn't so much the 'long arm of the law' as he used to be.  And Hunter is still hot.   

 

ETA:  LOVED Bobby in this ep.  The whole fingers thing had me looking away a lot, but her popping them out to shit kick Ward was beautiful.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Mz Anthrope

[sinkwriter]

 

And didn't Fitz just put his hand up or on it and we heard a 'kerchunk'?

 

If leaning on it or putting his hand up against it is all it takes for that very important containment box to pop open, SHIELD has major issues. That part was really lame to me.

[ChelseaNH]

They tried to help her twice.  Both times, she refused their help.

If Kara were able to throw off the effects of her compliance training in order to accept their offer of help, what help would she need from them?  If she were a free agent, she could get herself out.  Both times, SHIELD agents left her unconscious while they scampered away.  If they really wanted to help Kara, they should have grabbed her up and taken her with them, no?

 

But selling out a comrade

Accidentally selling out a comrade.  Bobbi provided the location of a safe house.  She didn't know it was occupied.  That said, she didn't know that it wasn't occupied, either.  She made a gamble -- one that allowed her to save 12 other SHIELD agents.  In the end, she did owe Kara an apology -- but not under duress, and not until she had an idea how it would affect Kara's recovery.

[tankgirl73]

Raina mentioned she was going to become an angel... a herald.  I wonder if she knew she needed to be killed to transform completely.  She said that this would be the last time Skye saw her (if I am remembering correctly), which indicates to me that she may still be able to communicate with her

 

When she said she was going to become a herald, she didn't mean future.  She meant, that was what she had always been meant to be, and now it was coming to pass.  Her transformation was already complete, and her role in the big game was nearly finished.  She was a herald for the big change coming (Skye becoming leader of a new team of Inhumans), her role was to be the impetus for the change in leadership by having Skye witness her mother killing Raina.  The death of Raina was desitned to be the downfall of Jiaying.  Her destiny was to die in order to herald a new order.  She realized that she herself was not destined to be the leader, but that she still had an essential and pivotal role to play in the new leadership.  She saw the future, realized she wasn't in it, and accepted her fate for what it was. 

 

She didn't say they wouldn't see each other again -- they DID see each other again (when Skye saw her killed).  She said they would not speak again.  So there will be no communication.

 

I actually really loved Raina's end.  I know many folks here felt it was anti-climactic, but I think that was kind of the point.  She had these grand ambitions, always wanting more, more, more, always believing she had a great and important destiny.  But she finally realized she was both right and wrong.  She DID have a great and important destiny, just not the one she expected.  Her destiny was to die in that moment, and she walked up to it willingly, in full knowledge of what Jiaying was about to do.  She embraced it, because she had seen the future and knew it must be that way. 

[KirkB]

I can't quite work out HOW the cage opened. We'd seen the thing turn liquid and then solid again, several times. How did it manage to turn liquid with enough force to burst open the door of the cage? Had it just not tried hard enough before? I guess, if it's sentient or something, there was something about Jemma it wanted to take a closer look at but it didn't look like it exerted any more force than the other times. And by the way, if your cage can be so easily opened from within, you don't have a very good cage.

[myril]

Fitz played around with something on the side of the box when talking to Emma. You can hear a thud and then a short noise of air hissing. He comprised the seal of the box, at least enough, that it opened when the brunt of the liquid hit the wall. Being distracted by getting Simmons out on a date Fitz must have not realized, that they should have better checked the seal of the box immediately.

[sinkwriter]

When the box needs to contain something potentially volatile, if it's one little clasp or corner that can be compromised by someone fiddling with it, instead of needing a passcode or lock & key or personal retina scan or something more high tech to access entry, then I think the writers made a bad call. It shouldn't be that easy to accidentally pop it open. Surely there could have been another way to have Emma get sucked in.

[Ottis]

This was in the episode. May lead Kara to believe that there were other SHIELD agents in the building by talking into the radio, knowing Kara was listening, and telling people not to let their guard down until they see her face as one agent had already mistaken Kara for May just because of the way she looked from behind. Kara donned May's face thinking it would aid her in taking out more SHIELD agents (who weren't even really there).

 

 

That's what I was referring to when I posted "May's trickery." I understand what happened.I still  don't know why 33 chose to stay in *May's* form as she went from place to place. No other people were around, if they had shown up she could have changed form to May if she wanted, and she woud have avoided what actually happened. She chose the form of Ward's target, which she knew was Ward's target. ANYONE else would have been better for those moments. But, plot wank is why she did it, I guess.

[Donny Ketchum]

This was in the episode. May lead Kara to believe that there were other SHIELD agents in the building by talking into the radio, knowing Kara was listening, and telling people not to let their guard down until they see her face as one agent had already mistaken Kara for May just because of the way she looked from behind. Kara donned May's face thinking it would aid her in taking out more SHIELD agents (who weren't even really there). I agree Ward should have been more cautious, but I think he was just eager when he saw the opportunity to get the jump on "May" given how hard she beat his ass last year

Why does Ward hate May so much that he wants to kill her?  I know why she wants to kill Ward.  But other than the damaged larynx, I don't see what Ward would have against May.

 

She made a gamble -- one that allowed her to save 12 other SHIELD agents.  In the end, she did owe Kara an apology -- but not under duress, and not until she had an idea how it would affect Kara's recovery.

Twenty-four.  She mentioned two dozen agents, not one dozen.

[DeLurker]

Why does Ward hate May so much that he wants to kill her?  I know why she wants to kill Ward.  But other than the damaged larynx, I don't see what Ward would have against May.

 

Didn't she nailgun his foot to the floor at the end of S1?

He may have tried to push her face in the table saw, but in Ward Think that would be a pittance compared to what happened to him.

[thuganomics85]

Honestly, I'm kind of fine that underneath the simply crazy, Ward has an ego and he totally hates the fact that he basically got beat.  Even before his turn to the dark side, I remember he was talked up as the ultimate badass; I could have sworn he was even mentioned in the same breath as Natasha/Black Widow.  So, I can totally by that it eats him up, that Melinda thrashed him like she did, and that he totally wants to even the score.

Edited May 15, 2015 by thuganomics85

[SnoGirl]

Fitz played around with something on the side of the box when talking to Emma. You can hear a thud and then a short noise of air hissing. He comprised the seal of the box, at least enough, that it opened when the brunt of the liquid hit the wall. Being distracted by getting Simmons out on a date Fitz must have not realized, that they should have better checked the seal of the box immediately.

I re-watched the scene, unless Fitz compromised the door's hinges, I don't think it's his fault. When the liquid pops out, the door opens on the other side. Unless the lock for the door is by the hinges, I think Fitz just slipped on the glass.

Although I'm sure that won't keep Fitz from blaming himself once he figures it out.

[tankgirl73]

Yeah, I'm betting that the cage had actually never been secure enough, and the thing was deliberately biding its time.  That there is something about Jemma that was finally what it was looking for.  And that Jemma is somehow going to be changed next season.  Alive, released, but changed.  That's what kree/inhuman/etc stuff does, it changes people.  There's got to be some sort of payoff for Jemma's anti-powered-people zealotism this season.  That could go in two forms: 1) she becomes an altered, powered person herself (deliciously ironic), or 2) she becomes a 'slayer', a weapon intended to hunt down and kill the inhumans (taking her prejudice to its extreme logical conclusion).  Which, in a sense, is also an altered, powered person, but she would miss that delicious irony. 

 

In either case, she's likely very far from 'herself', in personality I mean. Like when Mack was taken over.  And that's why they threw in the romance snippit -- whether she was really going to be interested in him or just wanting to finally talk about it and get all their cards on the table properly, Fitz will be left in limbo.  She was snatched away from him right before he was going to find out.  Physically still there right in front of him, but not the same person anymore.  Poor Fitz, as though he hasn't been through enough.

[DeLurker]

Honestly, I'm kind of fine that underneath the simply crazy, Ward has an ego and he totally hates the fact that he basically got beat. Even before his turn to the dark side, I remember he was talked up as the ultimate badass; I could have sworn he was even mentioned in the same breath as Natasha/Black Widow. So, I can totally by that it eats him up, that Melinda thrashed him like she did, and that he totally wants to even the score.

Dang! Good recall! Ward was said to be in a similar strata to Romanoff when Coulson was putting the original Scooby Gang together. Edited May 15, 2015 by DeLurker

[MisterGlass]

I think Coulson said he had the highest marks since Romanoff.  I'm not sure that puts him in her league, though.

 

Someone may have already confirmed, but yes, Hal sings "Daisy, Daisy" in 2001: A Space Odyseey.  Despite the sentient computer part, Hal and Cal have plenty in common.

 

I am onboard with the idea that the something in the cage was waiting for a chance to snatch someone and picked Simmons.  Maybe it's a portal.

[APSimpson]

And didn't Fitz just put his hand up or on it and we heard a 'kerchunk'? I was wondering if something he'd done (inadvertently or on purpose) unlocked the cube. Hmm... Fitz with a super boss badass arc? I could see the actor pulling it off :-)

 

Coulson said he had an idea for his hand. I looked at my husband chuckling and said, "Wonder if he means a 3D model of Iron Man's hand?" Something he and Deathlock came up with would also be really cool.

Now that would be mind-blowing if Fitz did it intentionally! But whoa, talk about going dark! Or maybe Simmons returns dressed in black leather like Olivia Newton John in Grease and she starts singing to Fitz that he better shape up!

 

I actually had some consternation about Coulson losing his hand. At first I thought this isn't permanent, right? They'll get him a bionic hand like Luke Skywalker, right? Then I thought maybe there's nothing they can do or Coulson wants to leave it like that as a profound reminder of what he's been through. After all, Fury lost an eye, so maybe Coulson is cool without the hand. It's a Director thing. But when he said "I'm looking at some options," it assured me he'll have something done. The question is, will he get the new hand right away or later?

 

Accidentally selling out a comrade. Bobbi provided the location of a safe house. She didn't know it was occupied. That said, she didn't know that it wasn't occupied, either. She made a gamble -- one that allowed her to save 12 other SHIELD agents. In the end, she did owe Kara an apology -- but not under duress, and not until she had an idea how it would affect Kara's recovery.

Well said. Bobbi never set out to wrong Kara, but she took it personally and couldn't forgive Bobbi. And Bobbi had reached out to Kara, too, made a friendly offer during the little chat they had back at the base. But Kara was a willing participant in Ward's endgame which was kidnapping Bobbi and forcing her to "admit her sins." It's tragic, but Kara chose her path.

 

I actually really loved Raina's end. I know many folks here felt it was anti-climactic, but I think that was kind of the point. She had these grand ambitions, always wanting more, more, more, always believing she had a great and important destiny. But she finally realized she was both right and wrong. She DID have a great and important destiny, just not the one she expected. Her destiny was to die in that moment, and she walked up to it willingly, in full knowledge of what Jiaying was about to do. She embraced it, because she had seen the future and knew it must be that way. 

There have been a lot of Star Wars references made about Coulson losing his hand and how that's similar to Luke Skywalker; and the "join with me Skye" talk Jiaying had with Skye on the deck at the end, and now this: Raina knowing she's going to die but will become something greater, or in her case, fulfilling her destiny. It's somewhat like Ben Kenobi facing Darth Vader knowing Vader would kill him.

 

or 2) she becomes a 'slayer', a weapon intended to hunt down and kill the inhumans (taking her prejudice to its extreme logical conclusion). Which, in a sense, is also an altered, powered person, but she would miss that delicious irony. 

 

In either case, she's likely very far from 'herself', in personality I mean. Like when Mack was taken over. And that's why they threw in the romance snippit -- whether she was really going to be interested in him or just wanting to finally talk about it and get all their cards on the table properly, Fitz will be left in limbo. She was snatched away from him right before he was going to find out. Physically still there right in front of him, but not the same person anymore. Poor Fitz, as though he hasn't been through enough.

That "slayer" reference reminds me of Baldur's Gate 2, or maybe I've just been up way too long ;)

 

That's an intriguing idea, if Simmons returns and she's not herself. I would love to see Fitz be there with her to help her through.

[ottoDbusdriver]

I actually had some consternation about Coulson losing his hand. At first I thought this isn't permanent, right? They'll get him a bionic hand like Luke Skywalker, right? Then I thought maybe there's nothing they can do or Coulson wants to leave it like that as a profound reminder of what he's been through. After all, Fury lost an eye, so maybe Coulson is cool without the hand. It's a Director thing. But when he said "I'm looking at some options," it assured me he'll have something done. The question is, will he get the new hand right away or later?

 

Maybe with the GH325 swimming though his system, Coulson will simply regrow his hand.

[xqueenfrostine]

Does Tahiti implant knowledge as well as erase it?  Cal as a doctor of humans did not have enough education to be a veterinarian.  Veterinarians treat all species, not just one.

 

Possibly?  Most of the other Tahiti patients we met earlier this season were essentially given entirely new lives and identities, rather than just having their memories selectively edited like Coulson's was.   Implanting the skill and knowledge of a vet would obviously be more complicated that the memories of a different life, but given all of the mad science-y things Cal got up to in his quest to become more than human, it's possible that he was already doing an extensive study of a variety of different species (he did included gorilla testosterone in his elixir after all) and so they might not have had to build that part of his new identity from scratch.

[Donny Ketchum]

[Kara] honestly believed that what she and Ward shared was "love".

Everything about their interactions told me it was love.  Or at least that things were moving that way.  Kara did seem more into it than Ward, mind you, but Ward had been in the middle of setting up a life with her at the time Coulson, Hunter, and Fitz had found them, and they did seem happy together.  In fact, they did from the moment they were first shown teaming up to track down that doctor.  Add in Ward's reaction to realizing he'd accidentally killed her to having her picture, not Skye's, at that bar, and wanting to go after S.H.I.E.L.D. for her death, and I'd say it's a good enough indication.

 

So yes.  I think it was love, or at least getting there.

[xqueenfrostine]

That's what I was referring to when I posted "May's trickery." I understand what happened.I still  don't know why 33 chose to stay in *May's* form as she went from place to place. No other people were around, if they had shown up she could have changed form to May if she wanted, and she woud have avoided what actually happened. She chose the form of Ward's target, which she knew was Ward's target. ANYONE else would have been better for those moments. But, plot wank is why she did it, I guess.

 

It's not just plot wank.  I'm not sure when you're imagining Kara would have had to opportunity to change her face if there had been a SHIELD agent lurking somewhere sight unseen.  As far as Kara knew, there were SHIELD agents still in the building in locations completely unknown to her where she could stumble across them without hearing or seeing them, meaning they would have the opportunity to see her face before she had the opportunity to change her appearance.  So doing things half way wasn't an option.  Either she took the risk and changed her appearance, or she didn't.  Given that Ward knew that Kara frequently dons May's appearance and might have reason to do so in front of SHIELD agents, she probably expected that he wouldn't be so quick to shoot someone who looked like May that she'd be dead before she had the opportunity to let him know that it was really her,

 

Everything about their interactions told me it was love.  Or at least that things were moving that way.  Kara did seem more into it than Ward, mind you, but Ward had been in the middle of setting up a life with her at the time Coulson, Hunter, and Fitz had found them, and they did seem happy together.  In fact, they did from the moment they were first shown teaming up to track down that doctor.  Add in Ward's reaction to realizing he'd accidentally killed her to having her picture, not Skye's, at that bar, and wanting to go after S.H.I.E.L.D. for her death, and I'd say it's a good enough indication.

 

So yes.  I think it was love, or at least getting there.

 

Eh.  I don't think it was love.  Not because I think Ward was conning Kara, just because I don't think Ward in his current state is capable of love.  Given his family history and life experience, I literally don't think he knows how to love or what love is supposed to look like.  I think Bobbi was right when she compared Ward's grooming of Kara to the way Garrett groomed Ward.  The bond between Garrett and Ward was the most significant relationship in Ward's life (and in a gross way, maybe the closest thing to a healthy relationship he had ever had) and it seems he was in many ways modelling his relationship with Kara to the one he had with Garrett.  Not because he had sinister aims for Kara, but because that's what he knows.  And while I think that's geniune, it's too twisted and spiritually toxic to be anything approaching love.

[Donny Ketchum]

Eh.  I don't think it was love.  Not because I think Ward was conning Kara, just because I don't think Ward in his current state is capable of love.  Given his family history and life experience, I literally don't think he knows how to love or what love is supposed to look like.  I think Bobbi was right when she compared Ward's grooming of Kara to the way Garrett groomed Ward.  The bond between Garrett and Ward was the most significant relationship in Ward's life (and in a gross way, maybe the closest thing to a healthy relationship he had ever had) and it seems he was in many ways modelling his relationship with Kara to the one he had with Garrett.  Not because he had sinister aims for Kara, but because that's what he knows.  And while I think that's geniune, it's too twisted and spiritually toxic to be anything approaching love.

And yet . . . he's about to go after S.H.I.E.L.D. because of what happened to Kara.  Sounds pretty much like he loved her (or at least felt something for her) to me.

Edited May 15, 2015 by Donny Ketchum

[jhlipton]

That was one hell of a ride.  LOVED it!!!  Best season finale so far (going to be hard to beat).

 

I liked the way they left Bobbi and Hunter.  If the spin-off had happened, they were poised to leave SHIELD; since it didn't Hunter's still in and Bobbi can come slowly back.

 

I believe that Lincoln will join Skye's team very early in the 1st episode next season.

 

Talk of what will become of Simmons had me channelling Rob Zombie: she'll be more human than [in]Human.

 

Jiaying sucking the life out of that poor guy = Glory sucking the life out of her followers (Angel)*

I think you mean Jasmine (as played by the magnificent Gina Torres).  Glory was the God on BtVS.

 

So yes.  I think it was love, or at least getting there.

Or as close as two psycho/sociopaths can get.

[justjoan]

 

And yet . . . he's about to go after S.H.I.E.L.D. because of what happened to Kara.  Sounds pretty much like he loved her (or at least felt something for her) to me.

 

Possibly love, possibly "that was mine and you broke it." I lean toward him being unable to love Kara or anyone, but it's not like he knows that about himself. He thinks he's both righteous and wronged, and now he has "tragic lost love" to add to the checklist. Not a self-aware fella.

 

 

Yeah, I'm betting that the cage had actually never been secure enough, and the thing was deliberately biding its time.  That there is something about Jemma that was finally what it was looking for.  And that Jemma is somehow going to be changed next season.  Alive, released, but changed.

 

That's what I've been thinking. Artifacts with malign, or at least inhumanly amoral, intelligence are all over the place in fiction, from the One Ring and its ancestral Rhinegold, to numerous swords and spellbooks that whisper their owners to their doom, to the underpinnings of the MCU, the Infinity Gems (or actually I guess they've been renamed Stones?). Obviously we don't know yet if the Kree Stone belongs in that club, but it's certainly weird and creepy enough to be possible. Humans are notoriously susceptible to the whammy by such artifacts; all it takes is a nudge here and a push there, and suddenly a latch is jarred loose and an airlock opened just enough, and the mission can begin.

 

Or not, but I'd find that a lot more believable than "this lock has held up through however many years and a full-out SHIELD/ HYDRA war, but one bump from a skinny geek and... pop!" That's just silly.

[FurryFury]

Possibly love, possibly "that was mine and you broke it." I lean toward him being unable to love Kara or anyone, but it's not like he knows that about himself. He thinks he's both righteous and wronged, and now he has "tragic lost love" to add to the checklist. Not a self-aware fella.

 

I want for May's ex (or is he not an ex anymore? Whatever, Blair Underwood) to get his hands of Ward and psychoanalyze him. Could be loads of fun.

[tv echo]

I think you mean Jasmine (as played by the magnificent Gina Torres).  Glory was the God on BtVS.

You're right.  I did mean the character played by Gina Torres on Angel.  Thanks!

[Bruinsfan]

Oh thank god, I thought it was just me. I've never seen Dichen in anything else, and her performance as Jianying does not make me inclined to go hunt down anything else. Except, maybe whomever cast her in this role. Because, hello Whedons: I know she was on Dollhouse, but there are Asians who can act in Hollywood.

I am also more than thrilled to find others who share my opinion! Let's be best friends forever!

 

Yeah Dichen wasn't good on this show, I actually like her better on The 100, I think that character fit her strengths better.

Does she play a robot on that show? Or a statue?

 

I don't think I've ever participated in this show's forum, but I came around tonight to see what people thought of Dichen Lachmann as the season's big bad. Unfortunately the dress is white and gold to me; I didn't mind her much in Dollhouse, but since then she's sucked the life out of every scene I've seen her in in Being Human, The 100 and now this. By this point I was past being annoyed and genuinely curious about how she keeps getting cast in these reasonably big roles with her totally flat affect. I guess there's something there I'm not seeing. (As an aside, is she pregnant? Her face seemed fuller.)

Lots of my friends just love her from Dollhouse, and I absolutely cannot see a hint of whatever it is they're getting from her. I know people have different responses to different actors, but this gulf is so broad and deep I wouldn't be surprised to find out Lachmann is actually able to hypnotize people into perceiving her stone-faced monotones as an engaging performance and I'm part of a small group who are immune for some unknown reason.

 

Some consider Abba's SOS to be one of the best pop songs. But might be more a tune for Ward.

Just as long as it's not a character played by Pierce Brosnan doing the singing. I'd be 100% in favor trigger-happy SHIELD agents shooting first and asking questions later if that ever happens!

[xqueenfrostine]

And yet . . . he's about to go after S.H.I.E.L.D. because of what happened to Kara.  Sounds pretty much like he loved her (or at least felt something for her) to me.

I really don't read his ending that way at all. He's a guy on the run from SHIELD (who will be back to hunting him down after what he did to Bobbi), who yes, is also upset over the death of his companion. But it's doubtful that his only motivation is avenging Kara and we actually don't know what he has planned other than apparently trying to reconstitute Hydra under his leadership. As for whether or not he felt something for Kara, I'm quite certain that he did. But it wasn't love. Had he been genuine at the end of The Dirty Dozen when he asked Coulson to accept Kara into SHIELD and help her recover who she was before Hydra, I might have believed there was a possibility that Ward loved her but the finale showed how much Ward was shaping her in his own image rather giving her back herself. One act is selfless, the other act is selfish, and I think that difference says everything. In the end I just don't think Ward loved Kara any more than he loved Skye.

[BPOX]

Wow, there certainly are a lot of people who are pretty idealistic about love. I'd be pretty comfortable saying Grant loved Kara, in his own destructive way. That's even with me feeling like Grant's defining character trait is really good liar. I felt like he was playing the boyfriend to her, but I also feel like Grant tends to kind of live his lies a bit too, even while he's making up his facts on the fly.

Edited May 16, 2015 by BPOX

[MisterGlass]

 

Possibly love, possibly "that was mine and you broke it." I lean toward him being unable to love Kara or anyone, but it's not like he knows that about himself. He thinks he's both righteous and wronged, and now he has "tragic lost love" to add to the checklist. Not a self-aware fella.

 

'The mine and you broke it' angle would align well with psycopathy.  Ward has an edge of narcissim and he seems to think of himself as a victim of circumstance (my family did me wrong, Skye shot me, and so on), and Kara's death will be something else he lays at Shield's feet. 

[tennisgurl]

Yeah, I think that's totally how Ward seems to think. He considers himself to always be a victim of someone else. He keeps rewriting his own story, to make himself the hero, and anyone who "wrongs" him in any way is a bad guy, or at least is in the wrong, and need to apologize to Ward. Its why he can, with being malicious or taunting at all, and Fitz how he`s been doing, after Ward pushed him into the ocean, leading to his near death, and struggles with brain damage. It just does not enter into his head that people could still be mad at him. It was Hydra`s fault! 

 

He loved Kara as best he could, but it was not a pure, selfless kind of love. It just seemed like he liked being around a person who saw him as a hero, and actually bought into his rewriting of history. Just like how he was (still is?) obsessed with Skye, who also saw him as a hero. He likes people who buy into his story he writes about himself in his own mind. 

[Tim Thomason]

Yeah, Ward loved Kara as much as he loved Skye (in my opinion). If things had gone south with Kara, he'd probably move on and eventually get a new girlfriend.

 

I'd like it if next season opened up three months later (as happened in Season 2 and was the norm on Whedonesque shows), with Jemma acting just like her regular self. With only us, the audience, remembering what happened in the cliffhanger. And then they could build up something odd about her throughout the first half of the season. Maybe she's really cold around Skye. Maybe she's doing something secret that she insists is nothing important when almost caught by Coulson/May/Fitz. Basically make this super-Kree weapon into an expert undercover infiltrator and planner, which would fit the show to a T, in my opinion.

 

I know it's been done before, sorta, but this would be known from the get-go. And there would be good speculation about the endgame and how much Jemma is still around in Faux!Jemma and may or may not be affecting its actions. Although I hope we don't get a "fight it, Simmons! We know you're still in there!" scene.

[KirkB]

That would be a good way to do it, actually. As long as Simmons is returned before Fitz gets back or anyone else wanders in (since the unknown alien artifact is clearly not being guarded) and doesn't LOOK any different, there is no way for anyone but us to even be aware anything has happened to her. It's an interesting idea, so long as they don't forget about it or let it drag on too long,

Edited May 16, 2015 by KirkB

[xqueenfrostine]

Wow, there certainly are a lot of people who are pretty idealistic about love. I'd be pretty comfortable saying Grant loved Kara, in his own destructive way. That's even with me feeling like Grant's defining character trait is really good liar. I felt like he was playing the boyfriend to her, but I also feel like Grant tends to kind of live his lies a bit too, even while he's making up his facts on the fly.

 

It's not that my ideas about love are all that idealistic, I just think it's as dumb to call any relationship with a romantic angle where one party isn't clearly leading the other party on love,  I mean, we don't try to convince ourselves that Garrett loved Ward, even though he clearly felt some sort of paternal pride for Ward and there was some sort of foster father/foster son dynamic going on between them.  

[Sandman]

If it's destructive, it ain't love. Robert A. Heinlein (not a notably wide-eyed or romantic writer) once wrote that "Love is the condition in which another's well-being is essential to your own." Not a bad working definition, I'd say.

Narcissists like Ward and Garrett will never work for anything but their own interests, and never take responsibility for their own choices.

[DEM]

I re-watched the scene, unless Fitz compromised the door's hinges, I don't think it's his fault. When the liquid pops out, the door opens on the other side. Unless the lock for the door is by the hinges, I think Fitz just slipped on the glass.

Fitz slipped the lock, and there was a loud clicking sound when he did it. Even Simmons noticed it, but apparently she didn't realise what it meant.  After Fitz left, Simmons walked around to the side Fitz had been standing on, noticed that the door was partially open, and moved toward it while saying, "Ugh, what --."

 

That was kind of rinky-dink writing.  Surely the safety mechanisms on the box should have been much stronger and more extensive!

[Tim Thomason]

That would be a good way to do it, actually. As long as Simmons is returned before Fitz gets back or anyone else wanders in (since the unknown alien artifact is clearly not being guarded) and doesn't LOOK any different, there is no way for anyone but us to even be aware anything has happened to her. It's an interesting idea, so long as they don't forget about it or let it drag on too long,

 

With very little evidence, I think the Kree Stone has some sort of really subtle mind control powers. Not enough to get Jemma to fully open the casing and walk into the stone, but enough to make Fitz (unknowingly?) walk up to the case and nonchalantly break the seal. And perhaps enough to make any outside guard go on a bathroom break. And most likely enough to get the security office to temporarily disconnect the camera to that cargo hold for maintenance that afternoon.

[Leia1979]

Fitzsimmons reminded me too much of Fred and Wesley from Angel this episode, so I should have known something bad was coming. If Simmons comes back all Illyria-like, I'm going to be very unhappy. 

 

I'm still enjoying evil Ward, even though I don't think he's capable of anything more than Hydra-lite (hmm, does Hydra-light sound less like a diet beverage?).

 

Hopefully Coulson can reveal he's alive to his ol' buddy Tony Stark (seriously, worst kept secret anyway) and get an awesome new hand.

[KirkB]

I don't know. As much as I hated what happened to Fred, that Illyria makeup and outfit was creepy cool. 

 

Ward is more interesting like this, I just hope we don't see him for a while. He's smart enough to stay away from Coulson and them for a while, at least until he can get a new power base going and that takes time.

 

Technically, Fury wasn't lying when he told the Avengers that Coulson died. He did, he just didn't stay that way. But what in universe reason is there to keep it hidden from them now? 

Edited May 19, 2015 by KirkB

[Chicago Redshirt]

Does Tahiti implant knowledge as well as erase it?  Cal as a doctor of humans did not have enough education to be a veterinarian.  Veterinarians treat all species, not just one.

Clearly there is some implanting of knowledge in so far as the person's given some false memories.

 

While your typical doctor does not have enough education to be a veterinarian, let's keep in mind that Cal is a genius mad scientist, and so might have enough knowledge of the species that your typical vet might work with (dogs and cats) to do a reasonably good job. 

[Sakura12]

Didn't Cal use Gorilla DNA in his formula? He may have some knowledge on animals. 

[Bruinsfan]

Hey, in the comics Henry Pym started out as an entymologist and then invented shrinking and growing gas and created Ultron. They don't pay a lot of attention to specialization.

I don't know. As much as I hated what happened to Fred, that Illyria makeup and outfit was creepy cool.

I loathed Fred (to this day I suspect hearing "Handsome mayunnn, saved me from the monsters!" again would result in me waking up from a rage blackout in a room full of dismembered bodies...), so having an episode devoted to her grisly death and another to every expert on the planet telling her friends that her soul had been burned up in the process, no backsies, suited me just fine.

[blackwing]

I hope Luke Mitchell sticks around and joins the team of people with powers.  I wouldn't mind seeing Multiple Redhead either.  There has to be a reason why Lincoln saved her.  I hope Raina is gone for good.  I liked the character before her transformation.  After her transformation, I couldn't stand her.

 

Since May is taking a break and going off on her own for a bit, I truly hope that we get to see some of it.  I want to see her go visit her mother.  I still can't believe they cast the incomparable Tsai Chin and then used her for about 2 minutes.  We need to see more of her.

 

Whatever the faults of Dichen Lachman's acting abilities, I still think it's pretty awesome that the three of the four biggest female roles were played by Asian women.  When was the last time something like that happened on mainstream American TV?  The only other show that has as much or more racial diversity in the casting is Hawaii Five 0.

[FurryFury]

Whatever the faults of Dichen Lachman's acting abilities, I still think it's pretty awesome that the three of the four biggest female roles were played by Asian women.  When was the last time something like that happened on mainstream American TV?  The only other show that has as much or more racial diversity in the casting is Hawaii Five 0.

 

Well, it's not THAT rare. Brooklyn Nine-Nine has two Latina women and only one white, Sleepy Hollow has, I guess, 2 black females now, Jane the Virgin is full of Latino characters (3 of them women)... But if you're talking about specifically Asians, yeah, that's kinda rare, I guess.