S04.E23: Two Graves

[FineWashables]

Because when you decide to sail around the world, the first thing you need on the sailboat is an untrained puppy.

 

 

[Julie23]

Eh, glad it's over, but the biggest cliff hanger for me was what happened to Carl and the puppy? 

[LucyEth]

What's up with Victoria calling Louise "poppet?" Who is she, Mrs. Doubtfire?

I know, I thought I heard that incorrectly.  What does that mean?  She meant nothing to Victoria, they act like she knew from a child.  Louise was just nuts.

[Shermie]

Louise was great when she was married to Nolan; they wasted so much comic potential there.

Anyway, the finale was good enough for this show. Expectations were low, and it wasn't terrible, so there's that. Not much to brag about for the showrunners, when it's not as crappy as viewers expected, but Confucious says you reap what you sow. (I know that's actually from the Bible)

I thought that the boat was going to blow up, setting Nolan up for revenge (or maybe Charlotte or even Louise, who knows?), but then they took the puppy on board and we know you don't blow up puppies on TV, ever.

[nobody30]

Eh, glad it's over, but the biggest cliff hanger for me was what happened to Carl and the puppy? 

 

They just left for their honeymoon, where did it say they left for good and made a trip around the world? They would have been back in a week or so probably, I guess grandma Stevie and Nolan can take care of Carl and the puppy for a week.

[GuyAwks]

As someone who's been a vocal critic of this season, I adored that finale. Really, there's nothing it could have done which would have impressed me more than what we got.

 

This episode really justified David's resurrection for me. Looking back on how his arc on the show has played out, his death here gives the show so much symmetry. I'm actually so glad that they brought David back this season- the show wouldn't be anywhere near as dramatically rich if he hadn't returned only to die again. Also, bonus points for finally showing us another winter in the Hamptons. It was a beautifully shot and scored scene and is probably my favourite on the show.

 

I'm not crazy about Jack and Emily (at least not as much as I used to be) but they provide the foundation of the show. Bringing them together tied everything up perfectly and made me feel like every season has been building to something meaningful. It's the storybook ending I never thought I'd get to see and I'm so glad ABC decided to take the safe route with this one.

 

Here's to a brilliant 4 years of this show. Thanks for leaving me a very satisfied customer.

Edited May 11, 2015 by GuyAwks

[nobody30]

Because when you decide to sail around the world, the first thing you need on the sailboat is an untrained puppy.

 

Sail around the world? Where did you get that from? It's their honeymoon, you usually don't sail around the world then. They just took David's boat to honor his memory, not to be gone for good. It didn't even say they left the Hamptons for LA, they still could be living in the beachhouse.

[St. Claire]

I was ready to throw a sock ball at the television with the "Amanda got Victoria's heart" scene, since organ donation from someone with a gunshot wound to the torso is a complete no-go (even Revenge couldn't pull off that medical miracle), so I was relieved that it was just a crazy dream. I watched this show from the first episode to the bitter end, since I have an unhealthy, co dependent relationship with nighttime dramas who hang on a season or two past their prime. I was watching for the camp factor:

• David died at the perfect, memorable moment of having just had a meaningful conversation with his loving daughter
• flowers covering the first name on the Clarke grave- attempted misdirect to show that Amanda had died from Victoria's last moment gun wielding (because, please, as though they really were going to kill her off)
• speaking of which, Victoria had great aim for someone who'd been spewing blood for however long it took for David and Amanda to have their little heart to heart about how she shouldn't become a killer
• Amanda just happened to find another person who needed Nolan's super-duper revenge skills to clear a loved one's name

[Primetimer]

Revenge ends with its final, defiant gasps of nonsense -- and we're there to tally them up!

Read the story

[Whimsy]

I don't remember Jack's exact words, but I took his speech at the wedding to mean they were going on a prolonged trip.  Maybe that was just an assumption, but I too was like "what about Carl and the puppy"?  If I misunderstood what Jack said, I'll feel much better because that's a crappy way to treat your kid.  "I have a new wife and a new life- no time for you!".  Can someone post Jack's speech, or at least the part about them sailing away?

 

I took the Victoria heart thing as the nightmare and that it was not true.  I am surprised so many people think Amanda actually ended up with the heart. 

 

Overall, I am just glad this is over.  I was pulling for an Emily/Amanda and Jack happy ending for a long time, but then they got so far away from that relationship that it felt really rushed for them to get a HEA in the end.

 

Anyway, glad to get that hour each week of my life back!

[nobody30]

Seriously "Previously TV" and Matt Debenham? Sorry, but that was the worst recap of an TV series finale I have ever read. Revenge was full of plotholes, and tough kind of a soap it's fair to critize that, it was painful to watch many times.But I'm sorry, Jack calling his wife by her real name is an issue, and where did you get that scientific studie from, that says everybody pointing a gun at someone will fire immediately if somebody else does, wth? Gun shot wounds to the chest can never be survived? Ever? When did Jack say they take a trip "around the world" exactly? And the final point, wth again, that is what you take from all that, seriously? You should consider reading the real Count of Monte Cristo then, maybe that will shed some light, I give you an hint, the ending is pretty much the same, of course far less cheesy and much more poetic, but still.

[Free]

So, that was it, huh? I guess they tied up everything, but that sure was rushed. I'm just glad I don't have this show hanging over my head while I wait for it to end anymore.

 

NO, I do not want this. This story is done, I don't want them extending it for anybody.

 

Exactly, thankfully it got cancelled.  As for the finale itself, it was so painfully paint by numbers finale checklist, but oh well, it's over now and that's what matters.

[Artsda]

It was a good finale, they knew the series was ending for sure. Loved it ending with Nolan and his praising "Ams" for well played. 

 

I felt bad Daniel was stuck for eternity in between his parents.  

 

Jack finally got to take his boat trip he's been attempting since the show started. 

[JenE4]

Well, I gave up on this show around the winter hiatus--and even when I watched in the fall, I fell asleep every episose, so I really don't know what was going on this season. Yet, when I heard it was the series finale, I tuned in for nostalgia's sake--and because nothing else better was on last night. I figured I was going to be lost on the storyline, and I was (Victoria blew up her house to frame Emily? Wasn't that Emily's house now anyway--but Emily seemed to be back at her old house with David? And I thought the redhead was married to Nolan and on his "side"? Apparently Emily is back to being Amanda? OMG, is that Coutney Love--WTF?!? And it seems like a few more people are dead now...), but, anyway, what really confused me was the disparity in this episode's stoyline.

 

In the scene in which Emily was going to shoot Victoria but her father did instead, Victoria was saying how these live-stream cameras will get her convicted of muder afterall. Then when David shot Victoria, Emily started yelling how SHE wanted to kill Victoria--until she got shot, too. So, why wasn't David convicted of murder and Emily of attempted murder or intent to murder or what have you? What happened to the video feed?! 

 

And why in the world would Jack and Amanda/Emily sail away on a murder wedding boat?! Don't the brides always get shot on the boat?! No wonder why Emily was having PTSD nightmares. Even if it's a different boat, it was still a little creey that Emily was shot on her wedding night on the boat--and Jack's FIRST Amanda Clarke wife was also killed on the boat.

 

And, as others have already mentioned, it was a cop-out having Emanda/Amily live happily ever after and David just dying of cancer as the second "grave." At the very least maybe have Victoria get two shots off so that someone else involved actually suffered the second grave consequences of revenge.

 

And, dear lord, when Emily and Nolan were talking about what he would do in the next phase of his life now that he has 4 years' worth of vengeance training under his belt and then some random kid comes looking for a revenge conceirge or whatever, I thought I heard there might be a spin-off--but hopefully that was just a joke. I mean, I guess if they went back to a red Sharpie case-of-the-week storyline, it could be a fun show, but this series just ruined me. If I heard that idea 2 years ago when the show started going downhill, I would have been in, but once David showed up and killed Conrad, oh, no, I'm not having anything to do with this show again!

[AndySmith]

One big giant pile of "meh". Oh well, its over.

Unpopular opinion: I liked Victoria. Popular opinion: I liked Nolan. Everyone else, couldn't care less about. So the fact that one of them got a happy ending and the other died (for realz dis time!!!) was...well, hey, 50/50 for me.

A nice flip (and ending for me) would have been Emanda ending up in an insane asylum, scribbling away double infinities on the wall, while Victoria pays her one last visit and then heads off to a fabulous life on the French Riviera, and Nolan continues being Nolan.

Edited May 11, 2015 by AndySmith

[alexa]

I think I was so relieved for the show to end with Amanda, Jack, and Nolan alive, that I thought it was just fine.  Perhaps my expectations are a little low, but at this point I just didn't want it to end with everyone miserable.  I have lived with miserable and this show for a long time, and didn't need it to end that way.  I actually thought they did a decent job considering how badly they had messed up the show and its storylines.

 

I thought it made sense for David to die that way, and at least him and Amanda had time together.  Of course I was glad to see Victoria gone.  I was glad Louise came around, and Margaux as well.  And though Amanda and Jack don't thrill me, them being together makes sense and brings a decent ending.

 

I guess I thought the heart thing was real for some reason.... although she dreamed I guess I got confused between the flashback they had previously and then the dream.  I thought it was kind of a cool twist for her to have Victoria's heart--kind of like will the heart impact her future or will it give that heart a kinder new life?  :-)  But I guess that is not the case, so forget that.  

 

I was confused at first about that guy coming to see Nolan, and what that picture in the paper meant, and then figured out it had to do with his future opportunities, and not that we are supposed to know that person.

[backformore]

I guess I thought the heart thing was real for some reason.... although she dreamed I guess I got confused between the flashback they had previously and then the dream.  I thought it was kind of a cool twist for her to have Victoria's heart--kind of like will the heart impact her future or will it give that heart a kinder new life?  :-)  But I guess that is not the case, so forget that.

 

Yeah, I thought the heart transplant thing was supposed to be real.   And Amanda now getting Victoria's "heart"  was both literal - the actual organ, and somehow symbolic - that she is now as vicious as Victoria was.   because Charlotte had specified that she could never know about the heart.   and I thought the "bad dream"  was supposed to be a dream that might actually be related to Victoria.  (only because there have been stories in the past about people getting transplants and somehow being affected by the donor's DNA)  

It's an interesting IDEA, but totally unrealistic, because you don't get to give hearts away like they were family heirlooms. 

 

But the episode had a lot of flashbacks and jumps in time, I wasn't sure if her getting Victoria's heart WAS supposed to be a dream - or that it happened, AND she wasn't told, but was having some weird recollection while sleeping, that it happened.  

 

I'd love some verification on this - or was it supposed to be vague?  

[TobinAlbers]

 

Louise was great when she was married to Nolan; they wasted so much comic potential there.

 

Yeah, she was really great as another connection for Nolan. And in a spin-off the two of them together in hijinks as they helped others avenge as they were taught would've been a nice kind of platonic Heart-to-Heart/Remington Steele + Will and Grace kind of vibe.

 

 

I felt bad Daniel was stuck for eternity in between his parents.

That is depressing. And pretty as he was in life. Caught in the middle.

[Free]

Well, I gave up on this show around the winter hiatus--and even when I watched in the fall, I fell asleep every episose, so I really don't know what was going on this season. Yet, when I heard it was the series finale, I tuned in for nostalgia's sake--and because nothing else better was on last night. I figured I was going to be lost on the storyline, and I was (Victoria blew up her house to frame Emily? Wasn't that Emily's house now anyway--but Emily seemed to be back at her old house with David? And I thought the redhead was married to Nolan and on his "side"? Apparently Emily is back to being Amanda? OMG, is that Coutney Love--WTF?!? And it seems like a few more people are dead now...), but, anyway, what really confused me was the disparity in this episode's stoyline.

 

In the scene in which Emily was going to shoot Victoria but her father did instead, Victoria was saying how these live-stream cameras will get her convicted of muder afterall. Then when David shot Victoria, Emily started yelling how SHE wanted to kill Victoria--until she got shot, too. So, why wasn't David convicted of murder and Emily of attempted murder or intent to murder or what have you? What happened to the video feed?! 

 

And why in the world would Jack and Amanda/Emily sail away on a murder wedding boat?! Don't the brides always get shot on the boat?! No wonder why Emily was having PTSD nightmares. Even if it's a different boat, it was still a little creey that Emily was shot on her wedding night on the boat--and Jack's FIRST Amanda Clarke wife was also killed on the boat.

 

And, as others have already mentioned, it was a cop-out having Emanda/Amily live happily ever after and David just dying of cancer as the second "grave." At the very least maybe have Victoria get two shots off so that someone else involved actually suffered the second grave consequences of revenge.

 

And, dear lord, when Emily and Nolan were talking about what he would do in the next phase of his life now that he has 4 years' worth of vengeance training under his belt and then some random kid comes looking for a revenge conceirge or whatever, I thought I heard there might be a spin-off--but hopefully that was just a joke. I mean, I guess if they went back to a red Sharpie case-of-the-week storyline, it could be a fun show, but this series just ruined me. If I heard that idea 2 years ago when the show started going downhill, I would have been in, but once David showed up and killed Conrad, oh, no, I'm not having anything to do with this show again!

 

Exactly, it needed to end, shame it had to be overly sappy and rushed, but it doesn't matter anymore I guess.

[nara]

I know, I thought I heard that incorrectly.  What does that mean?  She meant nothing to Victoria, they act like she knew from a child.  Louise was just nuts.

Louise heard incorrectly too.  She thought Victoria called her puppet, so she went ballistic and betrayed Victoria's location...

:)

[calipiano81]

"Poppet" was actually Louise's nickname when she and Victoria first met at the Claremont psychiatric institution back in Episode 1 of this season.

Edited May 11, 2015 by calipiano81

[Cocoa Puff]

Okay the finale was just alright I am happy that Jack and Amanda got together at the end. Side note I loved the Jmanda Wedding!! I am about so scour the web to find Amanda's wedding dress i LOVED it! I liked the was of roses, decor, EVERYTHING! I need to pin all of that yesterday!

ETA: Just found the wedding dress online.. and it was custom made by the show's costume designer, major sad face.

Edited May 11, 2015 by carolinagirl81

[Trini]

 

I'd love some verification on [the heart transplant] - or was it supposed to be vague?

 

I think it was supposed to be vague; but I'm interpreting it as she DID get Victoria's heart, because I like that ending better.

[RedheadZombie]

I thought Margaux redeemed herself in the end, and the actress killed her scenes.  I wouldn't have minded her going free. 

 

For some reason, I thought they were sailing around the world, too.  I wondered why they left Carl and Sammy 2.

 

How bizarre that Jack could so easily start calling her Amanda.  Even more bizarre - a man with two wives named Amanda Clarke.

 

If Nolan helps the boy vindicate his mother, that's called justice, not revenge.

 

Charlotte seemed very happy at the end.  I don't know how.  She knows for sure that her biological father killed her mother.  I'm sure she suspects that he also killed Conrad.

 

They have repeatedly shown the double infinity sign in the bannister this season.  They don't seem to remember that Amanda (last season?) pulled out a knife and destroyed the carving.

 

[LucyEth]

"Poppet" was actually Louise's nickname when she and Victoria first met at the Claremont psychiatric institution back in Episode 1 of this season.

I totally missed that one, thanks.

[Happy Harpy]

I loved S1 to bits, stopped watching during S2 (like a whole bunch of many, many, people, it seems). I watched the finale out of curiosity after making sure that Emily, Nolan and Jack all survived.

 

I was out of the loop for too long so I wasn't invested in anyone except in those three characters, but OTOH I enjoyed everything that was about them in the episode; and if the show had been about that OPT3 taking down the Graysons and their goons/accomplices after S1 I'd never have stopped watching. The Nolan/Amanda scenes were the best. And I always rooted for Jack back then, he was the only truly decent character of the bunch in my eyes (with Nolan).  I also liked that Charlotte and Amanda had developped a sisterly relationship, and the Declan mention. Oh, and it was nice to see Donna from NYPD Blue -who was Jack's mom, wow, good parentage! 

There was some awkwardness and even I could see it was rushed and the writing wasn't tight, but I didn't mind too much. The only moment I truly disliked was the mention of Aiden, because I couldn't stand him (I might have tried S3 if he had been gone) and he embodied everything that was wrong with the show for me, including the eye-rolling whatever ominous siiicriiit society name it was. 

 

I have no idea how it can rate for someone who watched the show in its entirety, but as a S1 watcher, I liked it and I'm glad they didn't go with some "everybody dies so that it looks edgy". 

Edited May 11, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[GaT]

How bizarre that Jack could so easily start calling her Amanda.  Even more bizarre - a man with two wives named Amanda Clarke.

 

 

I didn't even think of that, but you're right, that's really strange.

[Bort]

I thought Margaux redeemed herself in the end, and the actress killed her scenes. I wouldn't have minded her going free.

After being so single-mindedly obtuse, stubborn and misguided, Margaux did not sway me in her 11th hour change of heart. Karine Vanasse did kill the scene, I agree. I even remembered why I liked Margaux last season but too late for me.

How bizarre that Jack could so easily start calling her Amanda. Even more bizarre - a man with two wives named Amanda Clarke.

Once, Emily "came out," didn't they decide to change Carl's birth certificate and Jack's wedding certificate?

They have repeatedly shown the double infinity sign in the bannister this season. They don't seem to remember that Amanda (last season?) pulled out a knife and destroyed the carving.

I remembered that but didn't think it too much of a stretch of the imagination that Emily sanded it down and recarved it.

[Free]

 

How bizarre that Jack could so easily start calling her Amanda.  Even more bizarre - a man with two wives named Amanda Clarke.

 

Also add in the fact that they had sex in the place where her ex died, of all the places they could've done it.

 

 

After being so single-mindedly obtuse, stubborn and misguided, Margaux did not sway me in her 11th hour change of heart. Karine Vanasse did kill the scene, I agree. I even remembered why I liked Margaux last season but too late for me.

 

It was a forced turn after pointlessly making her ott evil, same with Louise.

[nara]

Okay the finale was just alright I am happy that Jack and Amanda got together at the end. Side note I loved the Jmanda Wedding!! I am about so scour the web to find Amanda's wedding dress i LOVED it! I liked the was of roses, decor, EVERYTHING! I need to pin all of that yesterday!

ETA: Just found the wedding dress online.. and it was custom made by the show's costume designer, major sad face.

You could tweet them and ask if they will share/sell the design for you to have custom made...

[scrambled eggs]

The finale was better than I had expected. Mostly I was glad that Nolan got the last line and Louise made the right decision to go to him and Emily. Though would have been nice if Patrick had shown up, was wondering where he was. 

[Cabarb]

So I've been hearing all these rumors about a "spin-off."  Somebody please tell me that's an actual thing, and that it will be Nolan exacting revenge for the guy at the end of the episode.

[CleoCaesar]

Am I the only one who doesn't get what the big deal is about Emily getting Victoria's heart? It's an organ that is literally responsible for you not being dead. Unless you believe in bad juju or whatever, take it and move on with your life.

 

I can't imagine a situation where Emily (I refuse to call her Amanda) doesn't know where they got a heart for her. She's not on a organ recipient waiting list, and hearts aren't exactly easy to come by. Sure someone could have just said to her that someone else in the hospital died, but there's no way it wouldn't cross Emily's mind that there WAS a fresh corpse lying next to her. Gee, I wonder whose heart I got! Not to mention, none of the doctor or nurses or anyone knew that Victoria was the unwitting donor (is that even legal?).

[IDFfm0870]

What a bunch of crap!

 

I haven't seen too many episodes of this season, but sort of knew what was going on via this site and a good friend of mine who really enjoyed most of the series. I planned on watching the finale with my friend, maybe together with last weeks episode. Tonight I spontaneously decided to watch the finale only. I was curious. And stupid, as it turns out.

 

For whatever reason, I thought the finale would be a two hour finale. And while watching it just now without knowing the real length of it, I was quickly wondering how terribly rushed it all felt, and this feeling hit me like a bad migraine about every five minutes at least. Midway through, I just knew I could only be wrong about the two hours.

 

Amanda's new guy had just been killed, so let's have Jack frak her, why not. Doll parts face killer is on her way, so let's have Jack run into her knife. Victoria and Emily possibly both dead, so let's fast forward and see Amanda alive at her dad's grave, followed by a flashback to dying David talking about dying and then of course dying on the porch with Amanda crying unconvincingly at his side, and so on...

 

Momentum is the key word here, MOMENTUM ! And sadly, this finale had not a single one.

 

There were some nice reminders of the show's intriguimg first season, the song during the wedding, the infinity symbol on the porch, the puppy etc. But just when I calmed down from the bull on speed I was watching, the next shit was just waiting in the wings.

 

One thing I am not sure I understood correctly at all: When Victoria visited her mother in the hospital, did the dying monstrosity tell her daughter that Victoria had seduced her own father unknowingly? Ugh migraine ... Or was her father the one she killed? What a sad mess either way.

 

During Amanda's and Jack's wedding when we saw Victoria's daughter, it hit me how much the dysfunctional Grayson family element was missing. If they were to ressurect a character, it should have been Conrad Grayson. Victoria and Amanda had an fascinating connection, but if anyone was able to bring out the best and worst in Victoria, it was her dear old late husband. Too "late" to be ressurected unfortunately it seems.

 

There were some tiny little moments that ware not as bad as the rest, but simply because I didn't see them coming. Amanda receiving Victoria's heart was one of them. The irony ... could have been so good. Charlotte was quite good here, and her ending - even if there was only a feel of it as we saw her all but 30 seconds altogether - was the only one's I felt ok about. And then Amanda waking up on the boat to ... nothing. Jack and her floating into the ocean. And this is an Amanda and Jack shipper here, one of the two. And, thanks to this finale, no more. I didn't feel Emily van Camp for a second in any of her scenes with Jack. Guess her personal view on things must have transpired here.

 

And now Nolan starts a new Revengenda. Why? Just because Amanda told that random guy to contact him? That is the ending, side by side with Ams and Jack on the boat?

 

There have been series finales that I have seen that gave me all sorts of different feelings, joy and tears for a family whose future marriages and deaths we were part of fast-forward style while the youngest, sudden indifference to an island show thanks to 20 final minutes of purgatorial boredom to disappointment and sadness when spy mommy was all of a sudden to be nothing more than a cold hart bitch during her finale moments alive follwing the oh so sad demise of spy addy.

 

I cannot recall that I have been ever seriously ANGRY about a series finale, but there you go. All the rush of this eppy made me wish that it had been a two hour finale, so that I could have enjoyed it on a superficial level at least, maybe. Oh well ...

 

Before you embark on this journey of revenge ...  think twice and run. Run fast and don't look back!

[Gizmo321]

They have repeatedly shown the double infinity sign in the bannister this season.  They don't seem to remember that Amanda (last season?) pulled out a knife and destroyed the carving.

 

Thank you! I thought I was the only one remembering that the carving got destroyed. I suppose with David alive he could have recreated it....however...they all seemed tobe acting like it was the original carving....

[Trini]

I linked a couple of interviews in the Media thread that answer some of the questions brought up here.

[skye230]

I thought the finale was fantastic!

I thought it was fantastic too.....loved it

[LucyEth]

What happened to Mason the writer and Victoria's ally?  Don't think they closed out his story.  Also, I don't believe Amanda got Victoria's heart.  Someone would know.  That is not something that is kept a secret.  

[backformore]

Amanda's new guy had just been killed, so let's have Jack frak her, why not

 

Jack should be careful.   Being Amanda/Emily's boyfriend tends to mean you will have a very short life. 

 

ETA:  from this interview http://tvline.com/2015/05/11/revenge-victoria-father-series-finale-interview-madeleine-stowe/

yes, Amanda DID get Victoria's heart. 

Edited May 11, 2015 by backformore

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Sorry, Madeleine Stowe, but for me the show canon is what we see on screen in the final edit. I have the same issue with OUAT on occasion too. If the actors, directors, showrunners, etc. have to explain things that weren't shown on screen, that's a failure on the show's part. As far as I'm concerned, Amanda's nightmare is just that - a nightmare. If the show wanted me to believe that she actually got Victoria's heart, they shouldn't have shown that scene as a dream sequence told from Charlotte's POV.

[rspad]

ETA:  from this interview http://tvline.com/20...adeleine-stowe/

yes, Amanda DID get Victoria's heart.

Not quite...

Madeline Stowe says in that interview that Emily got the heart in the original draft, but they changed things up in the end:

TVLINE | Let’s talk about Emily possibly getting Victoria’s heart. Your thoughts on that twist?

I’d like to think Victoria always had a mighty heart, but nobody knew it. So now she’s got her enemy’s heart — which might not be so bad. When we did the table read, it absolutely happened. But they wanted to go for a little more poetry and have it be in her psyche so that you saw she was troubled by this. They’d never tell a transplant recipient who gave the heart unless both sides agreed to it. In the original draft, it absolutely happened.

Agree with ElectricBoogaloo...what I see on screen counts for me.

 

Emily Van Camp is also on the side of "nightmare", that Victoria will just haunt her forever...

“The part about the heart was strange and we wanted to make it clear that it was a psychological idea that she couldn’t leave Victoria behind. So we incorporated this in a dream sequence — it’s Amanda/Emily’s worst nightmare, and we had to flesh out what the dream meant. Where is it coming from? Sunil made it clear that it was a psychological frame of mind, even though she received a happy ending. The idea that Victoria will follow her for the rest of her life is an interesting one. You don’t want to see Amanda get off without any kind of pain or suffering,” she says.

 

“She doesn’t have Victoria’s heart — that’s a strange and iffy thing. But the idea psychologically that Grayson will haunt her for the rest of her life is absolutely true. The dream is symbolic; the idea that Emily will never truly be happy. She was driven to be this person by this woman, which in turn created so much hate in this young girl. To have her gone is bittersweet in a weird way.” added VanCamp.

And Sunil Nayar just seems to like the debate it's created:

TVLINE | I know it was supposed to be open-ended, but did Amanda really get Victoria’s heart?

What I’m hearing from people’s reactions is that they don’t know whether that’s true or not. For me, I think that’s great. I think that the show lives in the world of nightmares and memories, so for the psychological nature of it, it’s good regardless; you realize this is going to haunt Amanda for the rest of her days. It’s a fun question for the audience to toy with: If it did happen, what does that mean? It’s a bizarrely theoretical cliffhanger, which I hope inspires conversation. I like the debate of it.

The mystical, spooky heart wrap-up was “a big discussion” says Nayar who looped in VanCamp and Stowe. “They had strong opinions about it, but I felt we struck the right balance. The show is fueled by the nightmares that Amanda Clarke had as a child.  The question of Amanda’s heart will linger in the air and never have an answer. It plays with the ‘two graves’ Confucius philosophy and ultimately the feeling that the heart captures every moment of a person’s past in the physical and metaphysical sense.”

Edited May 11, 2015 by rspad

[KaveDweller]

I thought the idea with the heart was that we were supposed to wonder about it, because Emily is going to be wondering about it.  She can't shake the dream even though she keeps hearing it's not true.

 

I felt like everything that happened after the double shooting was a reshot ending they added at the last minute, and that originally something different was supposed to happen.

[calipiano81]

Am I the only one who doesn't get what the big deal is about Emily getting Victoria's heart? It's an organ that is literally responsible for you not being dead. Unless you believe in bad juju or whatever, take it and move on with your life.

I don't see it as a big deal either. In speech, we often used "heart" as equivalent to one's soul or spirit, but the heart organ is just a functioning object. So, whether or not Emanda got Victoria's heart seems moot to me since Emanda surviving is the bigger deal. But my view is that the scenario was just what it was shown to be...a nightmare and not real.

Edited May 12, 2015 by calipiano81

[calipiano81]

Was it really necessary to spend episode time flashbacking again to Victoria's relationship with her mother? Just having one of the character's saying "Victoria's used her mother's body" would probably have been enough. And did the body need to be her mother's? Wouldn't any corpse have sufficed?

Edited May 12, 2015 by calipiano81

[Waldo13]

I found the finale bittersweet and satisfying but it seemed to be a little bit rushed. I'm going to speculate that there were a few scene changes because the show was cancelled. If there was going to be another season I would imagine that the cliffhanger would be with Amamda in the operating room after being shot. IMO there was really nothing wrong with Amamda seeking revenge because of the injustices done to her and her father. Also, any collateral damage was a result of the original conspirators trying to cover up there deeds and the struggle between the Graysons themselves. Conrad and Victoria were both control freaks that was so concerned with who and what they can control but ultimate had no control over each other. Pepe Le Pew only knew that her father was dead and blamed Amanda but I don't think she knew that Conrad killed her father in an effort to cover up the plane crash. Victoria was fearful for her children in condemning David but little did she know, at the time, that Conrad was behind it all. Conrad and Victoria killed numerous passengers and than Daniel was complicit so he was guilty after the fact. Amamda never killed anyone and in the end she still hasn't. Jessica Rabitt spun like a top that actually corrected her dizziness. I'm glad she finally realized who was her benefactors.

Loved the final scene between Amanda and Nolan. It actually brought tears to my eyes. I vote for giving Nolan his own show with guest appearances by Amanda. In the end, Amanda gave Nolan a purpose in life once again. All in all Amanda deserved a happy ending.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I thought Amanda's nightmare was just to illustrate that she is afraid all of her revenging caused her to become as heartless and cruel as her enemy Victoria, not that she actually believed she got Victoria's physical heart.

[Fat Elvis 007]

Random questions I asked myself during this finale:

--What kind of Appalachian stripper name is "White Gold?"

--Do the characters care even less about Ben's death than I do?

--Is Victoria Grayson really just gonna Tom Sawyer her own funeral without even a hint of a disguise?

--Like, where are your big sunglasses?

--What alternate names did they come up with for Courtney Love's assassin? "Pearl Necklace?" "Crystal Meth?"

--Oh, NOW you have your big sunglasses, Victoria? Did you decide to put them on AFTER you got back inside your hotel room?

--"Daisy Chains?"

--Is it really that easy to escape a maximum security prison?

--"Black Gums?"

--Is Emily gonna FIGHT Courtney Love?

--"Courtney Love?":

--Why would they make one of the best scenes of the finale, and Charlotte's best scene ever, an ambiguous possible dream sequence?

--Emily was cool and all in this episode, but why didn't she fight anyone? I like to watch her fight.

Snark aside, this was a surprisingly good finale, way better than I thought possible after this trainwreck of a season. Then again, this show has always been good at endings, its the interminable middle that always feels like the writers have no fucking clue how to fill time in between revenging. This season has felt LONG. I feel like Margot and Louise have been on this show for a cumulative seventeen seasons, and I can barely remember a time when David wasn't alive.

[Free]

Jack should be careful.   Being Amanda/Emily's boyfriend tends to mean you will have a very short life.

 

He won't, that's why he was the last one standing after the others died.

[Congo]

Who the hell were all those people at the wedding? Emily has one friend (Nolan) and Jack isn't particularly social either.

[renatae]

I somewhat liked this hodgepodge. I did want Emily and Jack to be together, but it sort of felt flat when they fleshed it out - perhaps because it was rushed. The chemistry wasn't there for me, even though I wanted them to be together from the beginning.

 

I didn't really get the feeling that Nolan was going to get into professional revenge - more like righting wrongs, as the revenge aspect really wasn't big with him, even while working with Emily - he just wanted to help her obtain justice, but often cautioned her against the revenge aspect.

 

Um, was her scallywag mother saying that Victoria actually had sex with her father?

 

 

Unfortunately, that's exactly what she was saying. Eww. One of the many things that often made me feel a little bit sad for Victoria - so much angst in her past that one would think she could have some empathy with Emanda. But, nooo. I thought Madeleine Stowe was smashing throughout this series, for being able to engender both hatred and empathy from me. Her glittering, teary eyes in so many scenes alternately portrayed her own hatred/revenge and her conflicted, broken heart and soul at many turns.

 

Although perhaps it was not the original intent, I'm thinking the two graves wound up being Victoria and Conrad. Somewhat messy that Daniel was there, too, but I imagine he's not supposed to count since he redeemed himself. It could have been David and Victoria, whose affair pretty much set this all in motion.

 

Personally, I was satisfied that Margaux gave up on her revenge for her losses, since after learning that Daniel willingly gave up his life for Emily, her vendetta really made no sense to me and I'm glad she decided to quit.

Edited May 12, 2015 by renatae