S04.E22: Cry Havoc

[bentley]

 

I'm skeptical that Theresa would ever give up any info about Nick under duress. He's the guy who showed her she wasn't insane, opened up his home to her, educated her about their heritage, believed in her as his replacement, and generally has just been the awesome big brother she never had. The fact that she was willing to put down Juliette—whose evil side she'd never previously experienced firsthand—on his behalf without hesitation tells me her loyalty is pretty much unshakeable.

 

Awww...that almost made me tear up a little. I love the Nick/Trubel relationship. 

[OtterMommy]

I think Juliette is for real dead because of speculation that Bitsie's tired of the show and wants to make movies.  Which sucks, because I liked the character and the actress and yeah, I'm sad she's dead.  What worse is this mess seems to be setting up Nick and Adalind as a couple.  Oh well, if rape is inevitable, I guess we'll have to lie back and "enjoy" it.

 

I'm hoping that the reappearance of Meisner will put an end to the possibility of a Nick and Adalind relationship.  I mean, Diana has an attachment to Meisner and if Adalind wants to be with her daughter, Meisner is the way to go.  Plus, he's hot.  (Not that Nick isn't....) And he has successfully played the Knight in Shining Armor to Adalind, which Nick did not.

[Commando Cody]

I think the writers were trying to tie up every loose end in the final.  Maybe not very well, but they only had 40 minutes to fit everything in.  I took it to mean they were moving on in other directions.  

 

I seriously doubt they are going to revisit the Jack the Ripper case - unless he possesses someone else.  I think they're just done with the story.  They couldn't even continue a featured story line like finding some keys.  There was no follow up on Zombie Nick attacking a family - except for a police officer interviewing Juliette and Rosalie.  And that was the end of that.  

 

I think the writers should introduce some sort of squirrel type Wesen, because they seem to very distracted by them.  

[Free]

I think the writers were trying to tie up every loose end in the final.  Maybe not very well, but they only had 40 minutes to fit everything in.  I took it to mean they were moving on in other directions.

 

I definitely see that, with them wrapping up the Royals stuff after meandering for 4 seasons, and then possibly the Keys/Map storyline next season.

[DeeDee79]

I guess we'll be waiting until October to find out (but won't actually find out until next May).

 

So true! These writers looovvee to drag out a story!

[icewolf]

How sad is it that the keys haven't been seen or mentioned AT ALL this season outside of the opening? I'm sure the writers have completely forgotten about that plot because they were so enamored with HexenJuliette.

[DeeDee79]

I'm hoping that the reappearance of Meisner will put an end to the possibility of a Nick and Adalind relationship.  I mean, Diana has an attachment to Meisner and if Adalind wants to be with her daughter, Meisner is the way to go.  Plus, he's hot.  (Not that Nick isn't....) And he has successfully played the Knight in Shining Armor to Adalind, which Nick did not.

 

This is what I was hoping as soon as he appeared. Considering he was basically working for Renard and the Royals that they were actively trying to keep Diana from are dead I don't see a reason not to reunite Adalind with her daughter. Nick can be a father to his child without there being a relationship between them. I don't mind Adalind as a character but Nick/Adalind would be totally absurd given their history.

Edited May 16, 2015 by DeeDee79

[WedgeOfSpite]

I actually enjoyed the final. Granted that may be because I am a very casual viewer, don't expect much from the show, and got the one thing I really wanted, which was a dead Juliette. It looks like The Royals were tied up nicely too. I haven't had enough viewing experience to get sick of them, per se, but I wasn't impressed by them just in the episodes I did watch. Though I will say I did think the guy who played Kenny was an okay actor. Which may not seem like much, but given the amount of scenes he had with BT, the ability to act was appreciated by me. I was neutral on the character, though certainly wasn't sad to see him get offed by Nick. 

 

I don't think the type of accent will matter, by the way. Not like most American's would know the difference between a Cockney accent vs RP accent, but the whole going off with cops after being arrested, and ending up dead? Hmmm. Even if Wu made up the story that the guy escaped, got out of his handcuffs, they had a fight, Kenny had a weapon that Wu then used to save his life, rather than his say, gun or a taser, he still would had called it in. Oh well, handwave moment for sure.

 

Juliette whole thing about not knowing they were going to kill Kelly? Sure, Jan. How did they think they were going to get Diana from her from a Grimm...by using harsh language? She told them all about the neighbors (who were also slaughtered), and set Kelly up. Then she Boots Were Made For Slow Walking down the staircase when Kelly was fighting for her life. Which she heard, and despite being the superpoweriest Hexenbiest that ever biested, she did jackshit to save Kelly. She also did jackshit to save Diana from the people who she worked with to kill Kelly, excuse me, was just soooo naive about. 

 

I did think there was a flicker of...something? when Juliette was in the car with Kenneth, and he was ordering the troops to go after Nick to kill him. But it was gone in a second, and BT just can't handle that kind of nuance so it was back to her impression of a Redwood. 

 

And speaking of bad acting, yeah, the person who plays Trubel is also not good. But the character was interesting enough in the last two episodes, and killed (pleaseohpleaseohplease let it be stick) Juliette, that I'm willing to let it slide more. 

 

I will see if the show keeps Juliette dead in the next season, if they do I might keep watching this show. 

Edited May 17, 2015 by WedgeOfSpite

[seacliffsal]

What a fabulous episode!  The action was nonstop and addressed multiple storylines.  However, I was a bit worried at the end when Juliette initially did not fight back when Nick was choking her.  I momentarily was upset as I thought they were trying to redeem Juliette and I immediately thought of all of the neighbors whose deaths she was responsible for as she gave all of the information to Kenneth as well as Kelly's death.  I just couldn't believe it-then when she turned on Nick I didn't know what would happen and then BAM!  crossbow arrow to the heart!  I was so excited to watch Juliette die.  This opens so many story lines while harkening back to Aunt Marie's original advice to break up with Juliette as otherwise there would be huge problems (and there were!).  

 

What a great season finale!

[ShadowFacts]

I was out doing yard work and I got more and more critical of Juliette's "death" scene.  Why on earth would she want to kill Nick? He's done absolutely nothing to elicit that from her.  As for her feeling guilty and wanting death by Grimm, that makes little sense, either.   She's kind of sorry, she didn't realize Kelly would die, but it wasn't a real apology, certainly not enough to show she is despondent and wants to die.  I can kind of half way buy Nick's not wanting to fight anymore given that his mother is gone because of his horrible girlfriend, but not really totally.  I think he would fight to the death even if he couldn't initially choke her.  Yet I'm glad it was Theresa who did what had to be done.  If only it sticks.

[hincandenza]

This show has plot holes so big, they should be called plot Stargates at this point. Here's one no one's mentioned yet (among hundreds): Portland is landlocked but for its rivers, yet the king kept talking about a "big boat". Why... not take a plane from Portland to Vienna like everyone else? Stargates, you guys.

Still, I watched this show as I always do now, blisteringly high as f*** on our state's yummy medibles. I tell you, when I am high, I care so much less about the lousy writing and incomprehensible character development. It's great fun that way! :) This show is never going to be deep, or well thought out, or wrap up with some cathartic final season. It is a distraction show, a semi-serious live action cartoon.

Like ottermommy, the first thought I had when the king died was "Well, this will be an interesting line of succession", but more likely the Viennese royals will just be forgotten. Odd, since Eric's death was significant enough to make international news, yet the death of their King in Portland won't even make a blip (much less that their own local boy precinct captain is now second in line as heir to a royal throne!). Stargates!

That also makes toddler Diana third in the line of succession, even as the bastard daughter of a hexenbeist and a royal who is himself the son of a hexenbeist and the now-dead king.

And because my mind went there, while we don't know what royals *are* exactly, if we assume they're some kind of "special"... if Nick and Adalind's baby grows up accelerated fast, then the two kids could incest to a hybrid- or I guess, "tri-brid"- child some day. Grimm-math says that kid would be half royal, three-quarters hexenbeist on mom's side (Sean/Adalind) and half Grimm, half hexenbiest on dad's side (Nick/Adalind).

I'm calling the series finale now: a half hexenbiest, quarter Grimm, and quarter royal child that is the first union of all three magical strains in probably thousands of years. They will one day inherit the royal throne, acquire all seven keys- along with the Hitler coins- and use their super amazing magical powers to build the single largest plot Stargate this world has ever seen. :)

Edited May 17, 2015 by hincandenza

[Quickbeam]

During the Juliette death scene, all I could think was "wow, Bitsie still can't act".

[Free]

I was out doing yard work and I got more and more critical of Juliette's "death" scene.  Why on earth would she want to kill Nick? He's done absolutely nothing to elicit that from her.  As for her feeling guilty and wanting death by Grimm, that makes little sense, either.   She's kind of sorry, she didn't realize Kelly would die, but it wasn't a real apology, certainly not enough to show she is despondent and wants to die.  I can kind of half way buy Nick's not wanting to fight anymore given that his mother is gone because of his horrible girlfriend, but not really totally.  I think he would fight to the death even if he couldn't initially choke her.  Yet I'm glad it was Theresa who did what had to be done.  If only it sticks.

 

Yeah, it makes no sense whatsoever.  Her initial motivation was supposed to be getting revenge on Adalind, but then she suddenly blames Nick and others for the unforseen side effect, so she teams up with the Royals, who is a stranger at this point, to go after Nick instead of Adalind.

 

We constantly hear how she can't control herself, but then we see her perfectly lucid when she's destroying the trailer, or kidnapping Diana or attacking Nick and the others when she says she likes her powers.  It's all over the place.

[OtterMommy]

This show has plot holes so big, they should be called plot Stargates at this point. Here's one no one's mentioned yet (among hundreds): Portland is landlocked but for its rivers, yet the king kept talking about a "big boat". Why... not take a plane from Portland to Vienna like everyone else? Stargates, you guys.

 

Actually, this one makes sense.  A number of smaller cruise ships and yachts will dock on the Willamette in downtown Portland and then head up the Willamette to the Columbia and then out to sea.  And, once, this unbelievably huge boat that just sails around the world continually (I believe it is a cruise ship for the uber-rich) docked downtown.  I was working in downtown PDX at the time and had a cube that looked out over the river and it was like someone had built a skyscraper overnight.

 

So, if they were in North Plains as they claim, it would make sense that they would take a helicopter into Portland.  North Plains is about 20 miles west of Portland and the highway going into town there is notorious for being clogged up for no reason at strange times of the day and night.  And, there are a few helipads on roofs in downtown PDX.  Heck, even if they were going to the airport to fly to Vienna, I would totally buy that some washed up descendant of erstwhile royalty who has no power but a lot of money would copter it to the airport.

Edited May 17, 2015 by OtterMommy

[OtterMommy]

I have not watched yet, but as much as I'd like to believe Juliette is well and truly dead, I cannot rejoice until the beginning of next season. 

 

Also,

this.

 

I think I want to smack some showrunners.

 

Replying in the Juliette thread ...

 

 

(And good to see you , Sweet Tooth!  I was waiting to hear what you thought of the finale!)

[Starchild]

So this season was all about having Juliette and Adalind literally switch places?

 

That? Is bullshit. I blame all the folks who said Nick had more chemistry with Adalind than Juliette. ;)   Seems the producers listened, though.

 

Even after she became a hexenbeiste I thought Juliette had real potential as a member of Team Grimm, maybe more than ever. I never considered Juliette one of my favourite characters, but I have been getting more and more bored with this show, and for some reason I feel little motivation to come back next season.

[Free]

I have not watched yet, but as much as I'd like to believe Juliette is well and truly dead, I cannot rejoice until the beginning of next season. 

 

Also,

this.

 

I think I want to smack some showrunners.

 

What makes it worse is that they're going to drag this out whether or not they'll cop out, nothing good to actually look forward to.

[theatremouse]

I don't remember if his ID had a country on it, but the family name listed was Bowes-Lyon, which is the surname of the family of Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother. The British royal family is heavy on the German ancestry, so they seem to be playing on the interconnectedness of European royalty.

I may have imagined it, but I thought something on the computer screen of Kenneth's info said "Deutsche".

[WearyTraveler]

A lot of people from Europe have British accents.  I teach English in an academy in Spain and all the programs here are British English. All the listening exercises have British accents too because the closest English speaking country is Britain.  So, Kenneth having a British accent is not so weird.

[formerlyfreedom]

One last reminder, before Delete-A-Palooza starts. Please spoiler tag the interviews about next year (because it's ALL speculation from them at this point), or take the convo to the Spoilers discussion. @SilverStormm and I thank you.

[Mojeaux]

I still don’t think Kelly is dead. I believe the head is a fake, or else their props department is craptastic because it totally looked fake. Furthermore, I do not for one minute believe Diana would let Kelly die. I also believe the woman on the phone with Trubel is Kelly. Trubel seemed a little underwhelmed by the news that that head was Nick’s mom. I can’t explain it, but too many things are off for Kelly to be dead.

Nick and Adalind have chemistry, this is true, and it would be a logical ’ship (if there had to be one) sans Meisner, but Adalind’s chemistry with Meisner was OFF THE CHARTS and nobody had any reason to think he’d be back. You just know that baby adores him, and as someone upthread said, he’s successfully played knight in shining armor to Adalind once. So this:

Now I want him to get his freak on with Adalind and they raise a whole mess of babies.

From your lips to the show-gods’ ears.

If BT has another year on her contract, well, crap. DO. NOT. WANT.

I saw the tweet about the show moving back to 9:00 next season. She posted a pic of Nick and one of her, Monroe, & Rosalee. I don't think this means that she'll be back, I think it means that she loves the show and the actors and will continue to support it.

I will choose to interpret it this way.

And speaking of badasses, Trubel has returned. She finds out that a woman she cared about

Am I the only one who thought there was some not-good tension there between Juliette and Trubel? As in, they didn’t like each other but were pretending? I could believe it was lack of chemistry because heaven knows, BT has no chemistry with anyone else, either, and the girl who plays Trubel was a n00b actor at the time. I never got the feeling that there was anything other than vague hostility there.

I like Adalind as sort of the bumbling, wanna be villain. I do NOT like her as one of the "good" guys--

Cosign.

[evilmindatwork]

You guys, I am done with Grimm. I started watching because it was a delightful, original, quirky show. Now it's death, betrayal, and angst. That's just not what I signed up for. I want my charming cop procedural with Scooby gang assists. Like, if I want to watch deep exploration of the human psyche I have Mad Men, The Good Wife, and Six Feet Under. The Grimm writers aren't even good at it. They should just stick to what they know. 

 

ETA: I don't CARE about Nick's journey after losing his mom and his girlfriend. I do not care! This show is supposed to be about Nick being a cop and a Grimm getting to know a new world. Nothing about his devastation and darkness interests me. 

Edited May 17, 2015 by evilmindatwork

[possibilities]

I really think the coins and keys were wrapped up when Nick gave them to Kelly and she took them somewhere to be hidden and/or destroyed. It was a cheap and lazy ending to what had previously been a big deal plot thread, but that's how they do things on Grimm.. I am okay with not hearing more about it because I don't think they have it in them to do anything interesting with it. If they bring them back, it will just be the same thing it was every time in the past-- someone gets hold of them, gets into a power hungry frenzy, and Nick has to fight them to the death. The end.

 

Remember when this show was clever, campy, and fun? Remember the Reapers? Or Monroe accidentally yanking someone's arm off and having to go home and do pilates to get a grip on his non-violence again? Remember when there were wesen criminals, wesen victims, wesen caught between a rock and a hard place? Remember when Nick was trying to be a by the book cop, not a wild-eyed vigilante? All those conflicts were interesting. We don't necessarily have to go back, but I'd like to see some thought being put into the stories, so it's not just a poorly lit procedural with animal masks.

[anarchyangel84]

••It's funny to see one post saying with certainty that Juliette IS alive and then another one saying that she is, without a doubt, dead. I think she IS DEAD. I don't know why the writers would keep her alive, that would be stupid. If someone somehow heals her, that would be stupid too... She was shot with an arrow- IN THE CHEST. I saw BLOOD run out of her mouth!

•• I am very confused about this FBI lady and Trubel. But this is my little theory:: What if she only went with what's his name for a few days and she's been with FBI lady all along? BUT she decides to leave or escapes & FBI lady knows the only place Trubel would go is Nicks. So maybe Trubel agrees to go back only AFTER she helps Nick. That lady said something like, "Go get her." I don't see her talking about Juliette- why would she? I don't remember a whole lot about FBI lady- have to watch it tomorrow, but I don't remember her being interested in ANYONE but Trubel. FBI lady & her little team may have a problem with the dead woman in the living room. Then again, maybe FBI lady won't be that surprised or maybe she won't care about anything but Trubel!?

[Prevailing Wind]

This is from the interview that was spoiler tagged, but the quote by itself isn't spoilery:

 

"Rosalee and Monroe got married. How many marriages can you really have?" Kouf quips.

Well, how many pregnancies can you really have?  Kouf needs to just shut up.

[Free]

You guys, I am done with Grimm. I started watching because it was a delightful, original, quirky show. Now it's death, betrayal, and angst. That's just not what I signed up for. I want my charming cop procedural with Scooby gang assists. Like, if I want to watch deep exploration of the human psyche I have Mad Men, The Good Wife, and Six Feet Under. The Grimm writers aren't even good at it. They should just stick to what they know. 

 

ETA: I don't CARE about Nick's journey after losing his mom and his girlfriend. I do not care! This show is supposed to be about Nick being a cop and a Grimm getting to know a new world. Nothing about his devastation and darkness interests me. 

 

I think I'm there especially with the interviews, it doesn't seem promising at all.

[theatremouse]

I also believe the woman on the phone with Trubel is Kelly. Trubel seemed a little underwhelmed by the news that that head was Nick’s mom. I can’t explain it, but too many things are off for Kelly to be dead.

While I'm not 100% convinced Kelly's really most sincerely dead (although I'll be super annoyed at another bait-and-switch season ending death because: cheap), I am 100% convinced the person on the phone was FBI lady. It sounded like the actress who plays her. So, much like the voice of "Jack" gave away who that really was, for me, so does this.

Mock me later if I'm wrong. I may be riding an endorphin wave from actually successfully predicting a plot point for once. (T shot J. YAY.)

Edited May 17, 2015 by theatremouse

[blueray]

I finally got around to watching this and the episode before it. They finally killed Juliette! I'm so happy about that. Though it would have been nice if Nick killed her, but I take it.

 

I loved that he killed Kennith very badass. And all the stuff with Bud was awesome. Overall a good episode.

[dgpolo]

If someone somehow heals her, that would be stupid too... She was shot with an arrow- IN THE CHEST. I saw BLOOD run out of her mouth!

 

Did you not see the Captain shot in the chest mulitple times? It may be stupid but it has been done. On 'supernatural' shows like Grimm and Buffy and Arrow etc. death doesn't necessarily mean dead.

OT (my son in law was upset with The Flash because Cisco died, I said -time travel- and sure enough, not dead)(I debated on spoiler tagging that but it has aired so decided not to?)

I had not thought about Diana and Kelly, maybe, since Diana remembered Meisner maybe she also remembers her mother and was not upset with Kelly's death because she was just waiting to get back to Adalind.

I did think Trubel was not very surprised about Kelly's death but I'm not sure why.

I never like it when the 'monster of the week' shows develop these huge complicated back stories that involve conspiracies and multiple characters. They did it with XFiles and even Dr Who. I don't care. I like the character and the resolution of a story in an hour or less. If I wanted conspiracies I'd watch something else.

[Mojeaux]

I am 100% convinced the person on the phone was FBI lady. It sounded like the actress who plays her. So, much like the voice of "Jack" gave away who that really was, for me, so does this.

I’m perfectly willing to concede this because I didn’t catch Jack’s voice was Renard’s.

Also, Meisner. Because reasons.

[OtterMommy]

Am I the only one who thought there was some not-good tension there between Juliette and Trubel? As in, they didn’t like each other but were pretending? I could believe it was lack of chemistry because heaven knows, BT has no chemistry with anyone else, either, and the girl who plays Trubel was a n00b actor at the time. I never got the feeling that there was anything other than vague hostility there.

 

I thought this for a while.  I mean, Juliette had every reason to be uneasy about Trubel--Nick brings her out of nowhere, she has both a history of "mental issues" (although we know that was the Grimmness) and a record, and she and Nick have a connection that Juliette and Nick will never have.  However, Juliette seemed very supportive of Trubel when she had to deal with the FBI and Trubel seemed especially sad about leaving Juliette at the Christmas episode.

 

So, I don't know.... It would probably make more sense for there to be tension between the two, but the writers put in enough things to the contrary that I don't know if it can go either way without consistency issues.

[OtterMommy]

I still don’t think Kelly is dead. I believe the head is a fake, or else their props department is craptastic because it totally looked fake. Furthermore, I do not for one minute believe Diana would let Kelly die. I also believe the woman on the phone with Trubel is Kelly. Trubel seemed a little underwhelmed by the news that that head was Nick’s mom. I can’t explain it, but too many things are off for Kelly to be dead.

 

I'm in the camp that is pretty sure Kelly is dead (Kelly, dead; Juliette, alive: although I wish it were vice versa) however, I also thought the head looked well, like a bad prop job.  However, Nick and Hank immediately recognized it, so I bought it.  

 

I did totally think, though, when the helicopter pilot got up and pushed the king out the door that it would turn out to be Kelly.  But, Meisner really was so, so much better.

 

I'm getting to the point where I'm wishing for a Grimm spinoff with Meisner, Adalind, and Trubel....

Edited May 17, 2015 by OtterMommy

[dgpolo]

 

I'm getting to the point where I'm wishing for a Grimm spinoff with Meisner, Adalind, and Trubel....

and Bud.

[ShadowFacts]

I don't think this has been discussed, forgive me if I missed it.  Why would anyone think Juliette could be trusted with Diana?  She tried to kill Adalind and her unborn baby, why would she have the warm fuzzies about Adalind's first child?  I think Kenneth was aware of this animosity, right?  Even if not, the audience knows, and it's not very logical that she would be disposed to give a crap about Adalind's daughter, even if she isn't also Nick's.  It does not compute.

[theatremouse]

Unless they're assuming Diana's "specialness" means basically... they assume Diana can take care of herself and wouldn't/couldn't let Juliette do anything to her/ Juliette wouldn't be stupid enough to try to find out?

I'm not saying I think they portrayed this well or established it or anything. It's just me cobbling together a theory.

Or maybe K just assumed J was a sufficient villain and his having said "help me get Diana for XXX rewards" means she actually wanted XXX rewards. J's animosity was always presented as toward A, not D. I suppose you might worry she'd get vengeance on A by killing/harming D, but really handing D over to the royals doesn't necessarily imply J "gave a crap" about Diana or was expected to have warm fuzzies. It just meant she had no particular desire to murder the kid, but was also equally willing to hand her over to strangers.

I think we were supposed to be puzzled at why J was suddenly cuddly and caring with Diana when she saw her, given she'd not shown any signs of being affectionate or caring to anyone in...well I was going to say weeks but the timeline here is so jacked I suppose it could've been days. or hours. But I digress.

I come away with two thoughts: I wonder if some of Juliette's cuddliness with Diana (which J herself seemed a little surprised by) might have been some mind control from Diana. If she remembers Juliette from when she was a newborn (and Juliette was nice to her then) either Juliette was genuinely surprised by her own continued responsiveness to Diana as before, or Diana was basically just making her treat her the way she wanted to be treated in the now.

The second thought is: did we ever see Juliette genuinely alone with Diana? If not, that perhaps Kenneth wasn't necessarily trusting her all that much after all.

Also I felt dumb when it finally hit me in the helicopter and the king said "you really ARE a princess". <headdesk>

Edited May 17, 2015 by theatremouse

[OtterMommy]

I think we were supposed to be puzzled at why J was suddenly cuddly and caring with Diana when she saw her, given she'd not shown any signs of being affectionate or caring to anyone in...well I was going to say weeks but the timeline here is so jacked I suppose it could've been days. or hours. But I digress.

 

It could be that Juliette had some sort of connection to Diana.  When Adalind first showed up at their house, Juliette was very caring towards Diana (making sure she was warm and dry and telling Adalind to take care of her).  Then, a few episodes ago when Juliette was a Hexenbiest but Nick didn't yet know, there was a scene where Kelly sent a picture of Diana (who, strangely, looked to be about 9 months old and I think that was only a month or so ago in "Grimm time.") Juliette was all huffy about Adalind and then she saw the picture of Diana and instantly turned soft and talked about how beautiful she was.

Edited May 17, 2015 by OtterMommy

[Happytobehere]

I don't believe for one minute that Juliette s dead and gone. Watch for the writing trickery that brings her back to life and magically cures her. We will get an entire season of horribly acted Juliette angst with everyone telling her how uber awesome she is and how if she does not forgive herself and accept her awesomeness the world will cease rotate.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Happytobehere

[WedgeOfSpite]

I never like it when the 'monster of the week' shows develop these huge complicated back stories that involve conspiracies and multiple characters. They did it with XFiles and even Dr Who.

 

But X-Files was set up with conspiracies from the pilot on (Trust No One). Sure it had MOTW, but it always had govermental cover-ups (and how big were they?) as part of the foundation of the show. The problem was that over time that became so elaborate that having it make sense, probably would have been impossible.

 

That does seem different from Grimm, which granted I don't know a lot about, but it seemed to me to be more MOTW based, with some conspiracy stuff (I think there was some Royals hints in the first season with Renard? or at least I remember from the episodes I watched, that he was part of a larger plot) throw in. Though it seems that the execution of that was very sloppy. So that one could count on the MOTW aspect not to suck as much, maybe? 

 

Anyhew, I can see wanting to get back to more of the Wesen part of the show, and less of the Juliette, various babies, various Royals, drama. So the show seemed to do a good job of cleaning house with the Royals aspect. I hope I hope I hope that they do as good a job with Juliette aspect, because I just can't with her. Her character was really bad the last few episodes, and this 'I didn't know they were going to kill Kelly' crap in the last one, was well, crap. And oh yeah, before she tried to kill Nick again. Which leads me back to being happy Trubel put several arrows in her. 

Edited May 17, 2015 by WedgeOfSpite

[tennisgurl]

All I can say is, Kelly better not be really for real dead. No way did the Queen Mother of Grimm get killed off off screen, and so lamely. I refuse to live in that world. I reject your reality and replace it with my own. 

[OtterMommy]

All I can say is, Kelly better not be really for real dead. No way did the Queen Mother of Grimm get killed off off screen, and so lamely. I refuse to live in that world. I reject your reality and replace it with my own. 

 

I do think Kelly is dead, mostly because it is hard to argue with a head in a box.

 

That being said, I do think the writers are keeping just a tiny door open just in case.

* It could have been Kelly,not Trubel, in the burned out trailer?

* How would Meisner known to have gotten involved in all this?

 

The first point is one of those that doesn't really matter right now.  It could have been Kelly, bu if Kelly is dead, what difference does it make (of course, how would Kelly know where the trailer was.  I still think it was Trubel, but I can see the writers try to get around it).

 

To the second point...It is not at all inconceivable that Kelly had been in contact with the Meisner, either directly or through the resistance, for quite some time.  She could have said something like, "I'm going to PDX to save my son, but be ready in case anything happens to me" to him. Or she could have been in cohoots with him.  Who knows?

 

Again, I still think she is dead, dead, dead.  But, I can still see the writers down the road trying to get out of that one little fact.

[Free]

I don't believe for one minute that Juliette s dead and gone. Watch for the writing trickery that brings her back to life and magically cures her. We will get an entire season of horribly acted Juliette angst with everyone telling her how uber awesome she is and how if she does not forgive herself and accept her awesomeness the world will cease rotate.

 

Yuck, please don't give them any of these ideas, this was already awful enough to drop it.

[squidprincess]

 

* How would Meisner known to have gotten involved in all this?

Meisner was Sean Renard's assassin, wasn't he?  Sean had him kill Eric, then in another episode, had him assist him in making contact with the Resistance.  I just figured Renard had Meisner infiltrate the King's staff (like Sebastien had Eric/Viktor's) and wait for an opportunity.  Meisner doesn't need to be connected to the Resistance at all at this point in time.  (Though he likely is.)

Edited May 17, 2015 by squidprincess

[OtterMommy]

Meisner was Sean Renard's assassin, wasn't he?  Sean had him kill Eric, then in another episode, had him assist him in making contact with the Resistance.  I just figured Renard had Meisner infiltrate the King's staff (like Sebastien had Eric/Viktor's) and wait for an opportunity.  Meisner doesn't need to be connected to the Resistance at all at this point in time.  (Though he likely is.)

 

There was an episode in the first half of the season where Renard met with the leader of the resistance and, from what I remember, Renard only knew that Meisner was in hiding and he had no contact with him.  Also, Renard did seem pretty down in the mouth when Hank told him that the King had Diana, so I doubt he knew that Meisner was on the helicopter.  

[Prevailing Wind]

 

* How would Meisner known to have gotten involved in all this?

I really expect the writers have no clue.  He just served the convoluted plot right then.

[OtterMommy]

I really expect the writers have no clue.  He just served the convoluted plot right then.

 

Sadly, I think you are right.  This is just the 185,375th time that they thought the audience wouldn't question what they were doing....

[BruceAE]

Juliettes injuries looked very-bad, but possibly not fatal-bad (depending on contract negotiations for next season ...)

 

I was disappointed the wholesale murder of the neighbours has gone un-noticed by anyone.  Surely this would be a massive case for the Portland PD - I want to believe the appearance of the FBI at the end will play into this, but suspect the deaths of 10-12 civilians neighbouring the house of a police detective may go forgotten.

 

I liked the shrink-wrapped head play, and using the powers of the Police to capture Kenneth.  I'm surprised they didn't start leaning on the powers of Law & Order to battle the Royals (who leave a trail of dead bodies wherever they go) earlier.

 

The character moments in the episode were great.  Everything involving Wu, Rosalee and Monroe was gold.  The writers know how to generate those great small moments, even as they fail at motivation and plot in a wider sense.

[Actionmage]

I was disappointed the wholesale murder of the neighbours has gone un-noticed by anyone.

 

To be fair, in show-time, last episode and this are the same night.  Juliette and Ken weren't telling anyone. Teresa didn't know.  No one else has gone to visit these folks in the middle of the night.  I figure it will cause Nick some more grief in S5.  If I was a neighbor on the other side of the murdered neighbors? I'd politely ask the trouble-magnet cop to please find another neighborhood.  Not polite, but Nick's got to think about that angle if he's calling out folks who could give a crap about humans.

 

I thought this for a while.  I mean, Juliette had every reason to be uneasy about Trubel--Nick brings her out of nowhere, she has both a history of "mental issues" (although we know that was the Grimmness) and a record, and she and Nick have a connection that Juliette and Nick will never have.  However, Juliette seemed very supportive of Trubel when she had to deal with the FBI and Trubel seemed especially sad about leaving Juliette at the Christmas episode.

I figured it was normal character growth. As OtterMommy stated, there was the initial distrust on both sides, but they came to respect and care for the other, as much as you can in the relatively short amount of time Juliette and Teresa had. It's like that Glarkware shirt: "I was in the shit."  Both ladies had been in the same shit and bonded through their experiences.  Just because Teresa was able to kill Juliette without a happy dance or a single, glistening tear? It doesn't mean  anything but Teresa being willing to step up when Nick couldn't make the final decision.  If Teresa heard Juliette plead for Nick to kill her, Teresa could guess that normal Juliette was wanting to die, so she took a hard call from Nick and did what Juliette wanted.

 

Well, how many pregnancies can you really have?  Kouf needs to just shut up.

 

Amen and huzzah!

the keys haven't been seen or mentioned AT ALL this season outside of the opening?

 

I am okay with not hearing more about it because I don't think they have it in them to do anything interesting with it. If they bring them back, it will just be the same thing it was every time in the past-- someone gets hold of them, gets into a power hungry frenzy, and Nick has to fight them to the death. The end.

See, due to that first quote, I can't quite agree with the second one.  ITA that the writers have lost interest in making a good story, much less a cohesive world-build, but because Aunt Marie's/ Nick's key is in the show open every episode, even casual viewers might wonder periodically about what's up with that key?  

 

It was only the coins that caused the negative effects; the keys, to date, have maps carved on them that lead to a super-powerful ( supposedly destructive) McGuffin and the Knights Templar hid the McGuffin. You get all 7 keys together, you can make a map that shows where to find the McGuffin.  Nick has his and Josh's dad's keys. 

[jhlipton]

Count me as another who hopes that Juliette is dead, dead, dead.

 

When the chopper wa landing, I told Nick and crew to assign one person to get to the chopper, kill the pilot and disable the bird so the King had no way out, and was massively disappointed when it took off.  Now I'm head-cannoning that one did go to the helicopter and saw Meiner there.  Mmmmkay!

 

As far as the eyewitness or Kennteh's accent, who is going to care?  The PD have their culprit, conveniently dead and unable to make a fuss.

 

I come away with two thoughts: I wonder if some of Juliette's cuddliness with Diana (which J herself seemed a little surprised by) might have been some mind control from Diana. 

 

Another bit of great acting by Bitsie.  "I'm great with kids" as she scruncthes the top of Diana's hair.  Ugh. 

[friendperidot]

I just remembered a thought I had when Diana turned on the death ray look at the king. Hello, my name is Diana, you killed my mother, prepare to die.

 

Another thought, illegitimate children are rarely the heirs to thrones, unless they are legitimized some how and I don't think that has ever happened with Renard, so how could his daughter be a princess unless the king decided to recognize her and legitimize her. Which, since he was trying so hard to get her I guess he was going to do.

[squidprincess]

 

Juliettes injuries looked very-bad, but possibly not fatal-bad (depending on contract negotiations for next season ...)

One of the arrows went through her throat (you can see the point come out of the other side when she's laying in Nick's arms)  They could probably still resurrect her, but between the blood, the arrow point, and her eyes staying open - Hollywood shorthand for "she's dead, Jim" - I think there's a good chance she's staying dead.  YMMV.