S01.E21: Grodd Lives

[TwistedandBored]

Way to turn Iris's anger and feelings of betrayal into some romantic drama. What a big let down!

 

Iris: You lied to me about everything that is happening to you this past year.

 

Barry: You lied to me about some feelings you might have had or have for me. 

 

Or something like that.

 

Seriously, the two situation is not fucking the same. Grodd and the little we saw of Wells I enjoyed it. 

 

What the fuck was up with Joe turning into such a baby when it came to dealing with Grodd? 

[La Dee Da]

Poor Eddie - I didn`t feel a lot of urgency in searching for him and Wells was mean girling him with his spoilers.  It would be nice to have Eddie reflect on the impact of what he now knows on his life (e.g., whether to forgo fatherhood). 

 

 How it's hard to buy Barry's "We're BFFs!" responses, when you hide something that big (and, nice try, Barry, but no: Iris lying to you/herself that she doesn't have feelings for you, is still far behind what you did.  Thanks for playing, though.)  

 

I thought they did a nice job with Iris` reactions - hopefully there will be a little friction going forward, in terms of her involvement with the team and the extent to which she was kept in the dark, despite her forgiveness.  This counter argument by Barry made me cringe - I was worried for a moment he has going to dig a bigger hole by telling her they kissed before he reversed time.  Also, Iris must have been loitering in the super secure and unmonitored labs a couple of times, as she jumped in at the right moment in conversations to drop a truth bomb. 

 

So, Wells has a backup particle accelerator/time machine, yes?  

[Carrie Ann]

Those of you who are so pissed at Barry for hiding his secret from Iris: are you also pissed at Iris for hiding her feelings from him? 

 

I already said this in my previous post, but the show created a false equivalency here. These two issues do not carry the same weight, by any stretch of logic.

 

Barry keeping Iris in the dark about being The Flash actually put her in more danger, arguably got at least one person killed, and it meant that he was hiding the biggest part of his life from her--and twisting everyone else in knots to do it.

 

Iris didn't tell Barry that she has thought about him romantically. That's it.

 

But if we were to pretend that these things were equal, then if I were to be mad at Iris for "hiding" her feelings for Barry for the last few months, man, I guess I'd have to be 50 times as mad at Barry for hiding his feelings for 15 years. Right?

 

I genuinely believe that Iris was in the dark about her own feelings for Barry (willfully or no) until he confessed his to her, and then I think she started to figure out where she stood. So I certainly don't blame her for not just jumping at the first sign that she might feel something for him, when she was already in a committed, loving relationship. That's Iris being confused, not willfully LYING to Barry.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[driedfruit]

Can't someone lock the frakking door at Starlabs ?  Iris just saunters in and no one knew she was even in the building.

 

It's probably locked and Iris must have a key card from back when she used to visit Barry there.

[diebartdie]

How is the gang stil, using Star Labs with Wells gone? Whose paying the utility bills and the rent? Shouldn't Wells have turned off the lights by now? Why are Barry and the others not fretting about a new place to work? Surely they know they can't stay there forever now that Wells is gone and working against them.

That bugged me a lot. Im glad Iris let Barry know how she really felt though, everyone did her wrong.

[Whodunnit]

There doesn't appear to be much of an effort to lock or secure anything (except the meta prisoners). Fort Knox this ain't. Maybe they just don't see a point with Wells because he not only built the place, and has secret entrances, he's also faster than a speeding Barry and could just whoosh past them every time someone got through the front door. Even so, you would think that they would at least try to get the blueprints, and keep an eye on the cameras for some forwarning that he's coming.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Whodunnit

[Ann Mack]

Way to turn Iris's anger and feelings of betrayal into some romantic drama. What a big let down!

 

Iris: You lied to me about everything that is happening to you this past year.

 

Barry: You lied to me about some feelings you might have had or have for me. 

 

Or something like that.

 

Seriously, the two situation is not fucking the same. Grodd and the little we saw of Wells I enjoyed it. 

 

What the fuck was up with Joe turning into such a baby when it came to dealing with Grodd? 

Joe mentioned that he is "terrified of regular gorillas" in the sewers so I think his reactions were justified and realistic (well acted realistic in a fictional show) especially given the size of GRodd and Joe knowing what GRodd is capable of.

[quarks]

That was fun, until the very end. Which wasn't enough to ruin the fun.

 

Good stuff:

 

1. Grodd!  I mean, ok, I laughed my way through it, but I think that was part of the point. It was so over the top, especially the bits where Grodd leapt into the air, that I couldn't help it.

 

2. Grodd doesn't like bananas. You tell Joe that, Grodd. 

 

3. Clancy Brown is back on my screen, and that is always a plus.

 

4. Cisco, happily applying movie logic to every situation. Awesome.

 

5. Of course Grodd just happens to chase Barry onto some train tracks which just happen to have an incoming train. Of course.

 

6. Iris knows! And was immediately useful, which was both great for Iris, and a plus for me since it proved what I've been saying all along, that it would be better for everyone if Iris was in on the secret.

 

7. Plus, at this point, everyone is, right? That little conversation with the Captain asking Barry and Joe for the Flash's help wasn't a random conversation, right?

 

8. Iris giving both Barry and Joe some hard truths. I was cheering her on every step of the way.You go, Iris, you go. I also liked her scene with Caitlin. And speaking of Caitlin --

 

9. Thank you, Caitlin, for reminding Barry that Iris provided practical help, and that you're alive because of Iris.

 

10. More Coast City references! Oh, Arrow, Flash, don't tease my little heart like this. I'm now actively looking for green rings.

 

11. And Grodd has become King Kong. YAY!  

 

Questionable things:

 

1. What is the gorilla eating? I know that E Online released the little deleted scene that explained what everyone else is eating, but what about the gorilla?

 

2. As everyone else is pointing out, how exactly did Iris just waltz into Star Labs like that, and how did her father just waltz into the newsroom like that, and speaking of the newsroom, what sort of news organization just has one employee around in the evening/night? Especially in a city that has a rampaging supernatural gorilla? I know the budget for this episode had to go to Clancy Brown and the gorilla instead of extras, but are you kidding me?

 

3. Man, Wells, pointing out that Eddie doesn't get the girl - ok, sure, but if Eddie is your great great whatever grandfather, than Eddie clearly got some girl. No need to make Eddie's entire life a complete failure just because one of his girlfriends decided to marry someone else in one of the timelines. I mean, really, Wells, given that that headline doesn't appear for ten years, for all we know at this point, Eddie did get the girl, and then died in a car crash, and then she turned to Barry.  (Probably not since she's using West-Allen, not West-Thawne-Allen, but still.)

 

3. The Arrow/Flash timeline is confusing me.  In this episode, Cisco said he called Lyla to get some information from ARGUS, which, fine, but Lyla quit ARGUS a few episodes ago on Arrow, right? I'm actually loving these little mentions and crossovers and things, but I really hope that if this continues next season all three shows sit down with a nice calendar and map out all the dates so I'm not going What? and Huh? like this.

 

Bad things:

 

1. Equating Iris not telling Barry about her feelings to Barry keeping a secret like this from her? Not cool, show. Not cool. I get why Barry did it, but Iris should have called him on that as well. Iris was in a relationship with someone else - and it's not at all clear from the show if she even knows what her feelings are. Barry kept something from her that at least twenty other people knew, while calling her his best friend - a secret that put her and her father and her boyfriend in danger.  Not the same thing, Barry. I'm not sure the actors were buying it either - they did have some solid scenes tonight, but the bit 

 

2. I figured this would happen, and well, ok, they were just fighting a supernatural gorilla, but I really feel that Iris forgave Joe and Barry way too fast.  They lied to her about Barry's identity, the murder of her mentor, and her boyfriend's kidnapping. These are not small things, and I didn't want to see them cleared up in one episode - glad though I was to see Iris step up and help Barry fight off Grodd's mental abilities. I know there's only a couple more episodes to go, and those episodes have to squeeze in another crossover and the Reverse Flash plot, but I really wanted to see more from Iris here. At least one episode more.

 

But the rest of the episode was entertaining enough to let me overlook that.

[cynic]

The writing on this show continues to make no sense, but I honestly enjoyed this episode. And no, it had nothing to do with the telepathic gorilla. Other than TC killing it as Wells, I watch this show for Barry and Iris. I've always thought GG and CP had great friends chemistry as Iris/Barry and great romantic chemistry as Flash/Iris and I thought tonight they finally melded the two. Also, I was glad to see CP get so much to do. I love her natural acting style and thought she did really well with Iris' reaction. Both she and GG were pulling at my heart tonight. But seriously Barry, time and place, man. Time and place!

Aw, I felt for Eddie tonight. I've really been warming up to him these last few episodes. On the other hand, I love JLM, but Joe is on my last nerve. I couldn't even be worried about him as he was damseled yet again.

Caitlin and Cisco continue to be too over the top for me in different ways. With her, it's the exaggerated acting. With him, it's the overdone fanboy characterization.

Oh yay, another crossover next week. :/

[Xenith22]

As everyone else is pointing out, how exactly did Iris just waltz into Star Labs like that, and how did her father just waltz into the newsroom like that, and speaking of the newsroom, what sort of news organization just has one employee around in the evening/night?

I'm still giving the benefit of the doubt that the newspaper building has a security guard working the front desk  Joe, like Barry works for the police and so would be potentaily allowed admission without issue.  The guard could also know that both of them are acquainted with Iris and thus know they are okay to visit her?

 

As for STAR labs, there could be a similar situation with a guard at the building that knows Iris, another explanation is that Barry gave her an emergency keycard to access the building before the generator incident, or a third option is that Cisco temporarily disabled the buildings security until he could examine everything to be sure that Wells does not have any nasty surprises embedded in the buildings security code?

 

I thought they did a nice job with Iris` reactions - hopefully there will be a little friction going forward, in terms of her involvement with the team and the extent to which she was kept in the dark, despite her forgiveness.

What Iris does not know yet is about Joe denying Eddie permission to propose to Iris.  She may have forgiven him for not telling her about Barry...but that is taking making decision for her/protecting her to an entirely other level and should be treated as such. Edited May 6, 2015 by Xenith22

[Actionmage]

I'm still giving the benefit of the doubt that the newspaper building has a security guard working the front desk  Joe, like Barry works for the police and so would be potentaily allowed admission without issue.  The guard could also know that both of them are acquainted with Iris and thus know they are okay to visit her?

 

I might agree with this if The Picture News hadn't been shown to not have a front desk or any security. The paper is set up like a FedEx Office store- anyone can walk in off the street.  Where Barry ate the ghost pepper? That is where Joe and Iris talked; it is the same set.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Actionmage

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Can't someone lock the frakking door at Starlabs ?  Iris just saunters in and no one knew she was even in the building.

Between Star Labs and the Arrow lair, anyone can just wander in off the street whenever they please.

 

enough with the man in yellow. Sounds like the guy who owns Curious George.

I guess that makes Grodd the Wells version of Curious George. Mr. EB and I make Curious George jokes whenever anyone on this show mentions the man in yellow. It's not quite the same as everyone talking about the man in the suit on Person of Interest. i also laughed when they named one of the criminals the burning man. He's from Black Rock City, right?

 

As soon as I saw Cisco's mind control device/tin foil hat for Barry, I thought of this.

 

I guess Eobard must have supplied A on Pretty Little Liars with all that surveillance equipment.

[Trini]

x

 

Poor Eddie's gonna need a lot of huggin' when this is all over.  Poor guy.

 

 

Not much Eobard/Harrison this time, but Tom Cavanagh still made the most of it.  Loved how he kept trolling poor Eddie.  You are such a dick, Eobard! 

 

 

Poor Eddie - I didn`t feel a lot of urgency in searching for him and Wells was mean girling him with his spoilers.  It would be nice to have Eddie reflect on the impact of what he now knows on his life (e.g., whether to forgo fatherhood).

 

 

3. Man, Wells, pointing out that Eddie doesn't get the girl - ok, sure, but if Eddie is your great great whatever grandfather, than Eddie clearly got some girl. No need to make Eddie's entire life a complete failure just because one of his girlfriends decided to marry someone else in one of the timelines. I mean, really, Wells,

 

Shame on me; I forgot my weekly Poor Eddie comment! Seriously, Eobard? I knew you were evil, I didn't think you were mean. Poor Eddie.

 

 

1. What is the gorilla eating? I know that E Online released the little deleted scene that explained what everyone else is eating, but what about the gorilla?

 

Wait, what? Tell me more...

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Well, it's definitely not bananas!

[Oscirus]

OK I liked that episode, I mean the villain wasn't really present but still. Friggin Grodd.

 

- Barry you might want to stop using that supersonic punch. It only knocked Girder down and Grodd just caught it with ease.

 

- So Barry if that prison isn't for regular humans then why was Pied Piper imprisoned there?

 

-Yea Cisco, instead of inventing weapons for people, you might want to work on the security for your lab. Just saying. Also for the love of Buddha, quit it with the "cute" dialog.

 

- It's weird that once again that Caitlin has somehow become the mother hen of the lab.

 

- I'm putting it out there now. Eddie and Eodbard are the same person.  Lock it in.

 

- Now for the Iris stuff. As much as I would've liked Iris's anger to be a multiple episode arc with both men begging and pleading for Iris's forgiveness while she scoffs and refuses, this way made a lot more sense. Kudos to the writers. Her betrayal had an arc and even when she wound up forgiving the men in her life, she didn't let them off the hook.  I also felt that this was one of the few times that we saw the connection that those two had. That being said, the insertion of the love stuff into the conversations in that arc was clumsy at best.

 

- Finally let's count the amount of episodes that Joe has been damseled- 1, 3,4, 7 kinda, 15, 21.  Maybe you should start taking your own advice, dude.

[BkWurm1]

Still not sure why Wells is holding on to Eddie. I thought he was going to transport himself into him but no such thing happened. So what gives?

 

Is it possible that Wells grabbed Eddie cause he was too close to getting the girl?  I mean, Wells has messed with the future.  He's accelerated the timeline to turn Barry into the Flash and it was while Barry was in a coma that Iris started dating Eddie and it's been heavily implied that if Barry hadn't been in a coma she wouldn't have agreed to a date with Officer Pretty Boy so maybe Wells had to step in and derail Eddie's proposal for fear that Eobard Thayne never existed.  

 

It would also mean that the future isn't set in stone.   I like Iris.  I like Barry but I just don't feel any passion between them.   I'm not saying the show can't get there but I'm sooooo not feeling it now and all this heavy handed anvil dropping with the name in the paper and then with Joe being apparently a hard core shipper, (which gives me a weird and icky vibe) it's all tell not show.   

 

I've seen Barry pine and saw Iris being friendly and I hear them labeled BFF's but it feels all surface and flash not real or earned.  Like the part where Iris got through to Barry and helped him break Grodd's mind control.  I was fine with the set up, I just didn't feel it in the scene.  I just don't get the proper emotional weight I need between them to well, care about their possible love lives. 

[Whodunnit]

Electric Boogaloo, now I want a space headband.

I think the chief totally knows he's the Flash. Cops tend to have good observational skills.

[BkWurm1]

What is the gorilla eating? I know that E Online released the little deleted scene that explained what everyone else is eating, but what about the gorilla?

 

 

http://www.eonline.com/news/653799/the-flash-s-biggest-mystery-is-finally-solved-watch-this-deleted-scene   Just ran across this deleted scene from tonight's episode. 

[Trini]

...  I enjoyed the Grodd stuff, but it really helped looking at it from a B-movie perspective.  I mean, it had all the traits: shoddy CGI (this being the CW, I wonder if they just borrowed the gorilla footage from The 100), ...

 

It's been speculated elsewhere that the only reason a gorilla was on The 100 was because it was a test run for Grodd. Both shows are from the same parent company; but I don't know who does the special effects for each show.

 

ETA: Although a quick glance through IMDB shows no names in common; so maybe not.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Trini

[chelsie]

I think it was necessary for Iris and the storyline for her to "reconcile" with Barry/Joe.

I like that she outlined her points in an intelligent logical manner. There was no violence (thankfully) or words said in anger that cannot be unsaid. I think she has forgiven to an extent but this will have long-lasting repercussions; issues with trust etc.

[Enero]

What if Eddie was strapped to a chair and nobody cared? Never mind food. Does the poor guy get pee pee breaks?

 

I liked this episode a lot, and I'm glad they gave Iris a meatier role. Everyone deserved what they got. She's forgiving because she's not totally petty. Her boyfriend has been kidnapped, and her dad almost got killed. There are bigger things to worry about than her ego. Everyone apologized. If she kept harping on them and being a jerk while all of this stuff was going on, I would have been pissed. I love the way they handled it. She said everything that needed to be said. She got Joe to admit that letting her in on it might have saved lives, which is what we've been saying.

 

Barry apologized multiple times.

 

Right now, everyone needs to concentrate on keeping people alive. There's a psychic gorilla roaming the sewers, a time-traveling villain, and a man tied to a chair with no food. There's stuff happening, and everyone needs their head in the game.

Actually Barry never apologized. He talked about wanting to tell her the truth, stopped short of defending his lie (and Joe) and turned what he did back on Iris to say she wasn't honest about her feelings for him, but he never apologized. That said, I get what you're saying and agree. It would behoove Iris to "forgive" Joe and Barry for now. They have a common goal of trying to save Eddie, but who knows what will happen after he's rescued.

Also when rewatching the episode, I was trying to recall when Iris first found out about the man in yellow, was it an episode I missed? Because when she went to Barry to tell him that Eddie had been kidnapped, she referred to the man in yellow as if he was someone she and Barry had discussed before. Was this a plot hole by the writers?

[driedfruit]

Also when rewatching the episode, I was trying to recall when Iris first found out about the man in yellow, was it an episode I missed? Because when she went to Barry to tell him that Eddie had been kidnapped, she referred to the man in yellow as if he was someone she and Barry had discussed before. Was this a plot hole by the writers?

 

Iris knew about the Man in Yellow all her life. Her talks with Barry about the impossible that nobody believed him for implied as much. 

 

I really do think that a flashback to Iris and Barry as children, or at least young teens, is essential. With a friendship that goes so far back, a scene or two like that would go a long way. 

Edited May 6, 2015 by driedfruit

[Enero]

Iris knew about the Man in Yellow all her life. Her talks with Barry about the impossible that nobody believed him for, etc.

Yes, but she'd never seen him in reality. As far as she knew (and Barry would think she knew) the last time he'd seen him was when he was a child.

You'd think Barry would've picked up that something was off, just for the mere fact that Iris wasn't more emotional about a) seeing the man in yellow in reality, seeing proof that he actually was real. Shouldn't she have come in saying "I saw the man that killed your mom" shouldn't that have been what Barry would've expected to be said by an oblivious Iris? and b) that Eddie had been kidnapped by the very person that killed his mom. We, the audience, knew why she wasn't overly emotional. She'd had some time to process, but Barry didn't. As someone stated about him in last week's episode, he was so busy trying to deflect and deny the truth, that he didn't realize what she was saying meant.

Upon further thought I wonder if Iris not only went there to see if maybe she could get some kind of roundabout update on Eddie, but also to see if based on what she was saying, if Barry would figure out she knew that he was the Flash.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Enero

[driedfruit]

Yes, but she'd never seen him in reality. As far as she knew (and Barry would think she knew) the last time he'd seen him was when he was a child.

 

 

Why would she need to? She likely had vivid detail of what he looked like from Barry, and once Flash came around, she would've recognized the resemblance of a speedster. Flash but in a yellow suit, who takes out Eddie and nearly kills her (so obviously he's evil). It's a reasonable leap. 

 

It's not like speedsters are plentiful...yet.

Edited May 6, 2015 by driedfruit

[Oscirus]

Upon further thought I wonder if Iris not only went there to see if maybe she could get some kind of roundabout update on Eddie, but also to see if based on what she was saying, if Barry would figure out she knew that he was the Flash.

 

She wanted to give him a chance to tell her the truth. Once she realized that this was going to go on forever if she let it, she dropped all pretenses and confronted him at the lab.

[Enero]

Why would she need to? She likely had vivid detail of what he looked like from Barry, and once Flash came around, she would've recognized the resemblance of a speedster. Flash but in a yellow suit, who takes out Eddie and nearly kills her (so obviously he's evil). It's a reasonable leap.

It's not like speedsters are plentiful...yet.

I probably didn't explain myself clearly. My point was that Barry should've picked up that something was off, because as far as he knew Iris had seen the man in yellow for the first time when he kidnapped Eddie. So her telling him about TMIY should've been more "omg the man in yellow is back!" Maybe not that dramatic, but definitely more alarming than it came off. But Barry didn't pick up on this. Edited May 6, 2015 by Enero

[bluvelvet]

Actually I was very happy with how Iris expressed her anger. She didn't go all nuclear but she expressed her anger quietly. I actually loved that she said she was more disappointed than angry. For some reason that packs more of a punch for me.

I liked West Allen before but now I'm actively shipping.

You can be upset with someone and still understand why they did it. Also I don't think she has fully forgiven them, but the "almost dying" always puts things in perspective. She also very nicely articulated why they were wrong.

Edited May 6, 2015 by bluvelvet

[cambridgeguy]

 

Some of you are being wayyy to practical.  Who gets paid in a superhero series/movie?  These people don't have jobs where they have to worry about paying bills , having the lights on etc.

Actually, they generally work for some nebulous agency that can pay the bills (Argus), are independently wealthy (Batman, Iron Man), mooch off their wealthy benefactor (the Avengers), have money issues (Spidey), or actually have a job (Superman, Barry).  Now, whether or not the ones with job should actually still have it after running off all the time is another issue.

 

The Star labs thing has always been dubious since three people were apparently able to keep everything running, but at least Wells is rich and can pay the bills.  Maybe they can convince Ray Palmer to buy the place.

 

Ironically, now that Iris knows everything they STILL aren't taking any precautions.  All of Barry's close friends should be hunkered down, not wandering about as if nothing has happened. 

[Actionmage]

(From the link BkWurm kindly linked )

 

And now we finally have our answer! E! News has an exclusive first look at a very important deleted scene from tonight's episode, "Grodd Lives," that shows exactly how all the metahumans have been fed this entire time on the show...and it's actually quite extravagant. And we're maybe a little bit jealous of it...apart from the whole, being-a-prisoner thing.

 

(italics mine)

 

No, the scene shows us what the prisoners are eating, not how. We are to believe that the murderers and Peek-A-Boo just let Caitlyn hand food in to them? Just stop, Show. Either show us something thoughtful and reasonable or just quit bringing it up. The "explanations" are starting to feel like trolling, to me.
 

Edited May 6, 2015 by Actionmage

[quarks]

And also, they cut the scene for time. I understand why - it was a slightly shippy Barry/Caitlin moment on an episode meant to focus on Barry/Iris, and apart from the prisoners' choices in takeout, didn't really give us any new information or advance the plot of the episode at all - but that also suggests that the show didn't think this question was important enough to answer within the show.

[cambridgeguy]

The dietary preferences of a supervillain is a bit of trivia that doesn't really matter in the long term.  What people (presumably) care about and want addressed is how the heroes can be judge/jury and lock people up without due process since a metahuman is still a human with certain rights.  You don't see Superman tossing every human criminal with powers into the Phantom Zone, for example.  That's more than a one minute throwaway conversation.

[JTMacc99]

Can't someone lock the frakking door at Starlabs ?  Iris just saunters in and no one knew she was even in the building.

HA!  I thought that the first time.  The second time she just walks in behind them I laughed and yelled at the TV, LOCK THE DOOR YOU MORONS!

[shrewd.buddha]

How is the gang still using Star Labs with Wells gone? 

Yeah, a building as big as a football stadium - that doubles as a superhuman prison  - - and only three people work there..  Now only two.

Who is doing all the cleaning? 

 

Also, Team Flash have access to a super AI from the future named Gideon.  Did they somehow forget that? 

[TobinAlbers]

Nobody feeling an urgent need to find Eddie sucked. Forget his being Iris' boyfriend, but Joe, that's your partner! Your cop partner whose back you're supposed to have and who has had your back several times over the season. It felt like that subconsciously they wrote Eddie off since he's related to the enemy camp or else they all realize Eddie has some kind of plot armor that'll protect him until they get around to really trying to find him.

 

On the subject of Barry keeping secrets from Iris, honestly, even if they are BFFs, Barry being The Flash really is his secret to share or not share as he sees fit. Just like Iris's feelings are hers to divulge if she wants. However, in the case of Iris and her feelings, she's let them more than once affect Barry by her indirect sabotage of his relationship with Linda. Barry keeping his secret of being the Flash is tricky in that since he was keeping his exploits a secret, Joe and Iris were not in danger due to his being the Flash unless they both inserted themselves into Flash business - which they both did.

 

Grodd scaring the crap out of Joe with the mind control was pretty convincing. He'd have fainted if he knew how Grodd likes to chomp on brains.

 

Wells' hair going full evil just cracked me up. Eddie bashing the name Eobard shows he wasn't gonna go out without snarking.

[JTMacc99]

Actually I was very happy with how Iris expressed her anger. She didn't go all nuclear but she expressed her anger quietly. I actually loved that she said she was more disappointed than angry. For some reason that packs more of a punch for me.

I agree. I like Disappointed. Disappointed is definitely the right way to get to Barry.

 

And in my opinion, the best way to start the next episode is Iris sitting down with Barry, Caitlin and Cisco and hearing Barry say, "... and that's how we got to where we are today."  I think that a full retelling of every burning man, time travel, hot/cold gun, future room, Wells reveal and Giant Gorilla should do everything we need. She should be overwhelmed with all of the information, reasonably pleased that secrets were now being shared, and we can be okay with the idea that Iris is up to speed and can be expected to be a fully participating member of the team.

[Gregg247]

The reason Grodd was so frightening was that the actor who plays Joe (I can't remember his name at the moment) really sold it.  He looked so terrified when being forced to turn the gun on himself, and when Grodd roared in his face, that I actually got scared!  When he screamed "Somebody help me!" as his hand turned the gun in the direction of his own head, I completely bought his fear.

 

This is why you hire good actors for shows like this.

[Smug47]

I loved their reasoning behind finding Grodd. "Grodd and Wells are like father and son, Wells is using Grodd as a distraction, we need to find Eddie, if we find Grodd we find Wells!" Like, just agree that a giant intelligent gorilla is a better mission than finding Eddie and his mussed up hair. 

I did love Wells this episode. He doesn't have to hide any longer, so the glasses are gone and that combined with the lighting gave his face a super creepy vibe. I could believe that he was a whole different person, and Cavanagh is knocking it out of the park.

I think that in this episode Iris' anger was justified and well reasoned, and I hope it plays out for he next episode and into next season a bit (barring any timeline resets). She can still love Barry and Joe and also be angry with them and have trust issues. Just because they had a heart to heart in the hospital doesn't mean that everything should be forgiven, and she should definitely discover the extent to which Joe has been trying to control her choices and options. Now that she actually knows what is going on and doesn't have to piece everything together (which I think she did admirably, if a little slowly), she can protect herself and help the team as well. The only part that I disliked was the team Flash meeting at the end where they sort of tacitly agreed that Iris passed her trial and can be part of the team now. Your club is not that exclusive, dicks.

[Racj82]

I don't care about STAR Labs. Their security system, how they get paid, the jails, none of it. That's the least of their concerns right now. If Wells wants to get them, he'll get them. They and I have more important things on my mind when it comes to this show.

[SimoneS]

I don't care about STAR Labs. Their security system, how they get paid, the jails, none of it. That's the least of their concerns right now. If Wells wants to get them, he'll get them. They and I have more important things on my mind when it comes to this show.

 

I was so caught up in the drama last week that I never thought about security or financial situation regarding Star Labs. Usually, I at least wonder how they feed the prisoners and the plumbing in the cells, but I was pretty mesmerized by Clancy Brown (forever the Krugan from Highlander to me) that none of that occurred to me. The only thing thought that I did have was that the team needs Amanda Pays' character to guide them now which I have been saying for the last couple weeks. I suppose, the showrunners could claim that there is a trust funding Star Labs.  

Edited May 6, 2015 by SimoneS

[TwistedandBored]

Joe mentioned that he is "terrified of regular gorillas" in the sewers so I think his reactions were justified and realistic (well acted realistic in a fictional show) especially given the size of GRodd and Joe knowing what GRodd is capable of.

 

I didn't know that. I was just taken aback by how much begging and crying Joe did in his scenes with Grodd. I was like dude, stop crying and beginning and think of a way to get out of there. 

[Primetimer]

Grodd's scary-looking and crazy strong, but it's his mental abilities that really put Barry to the test.

Read the story

[The Real Chon]

While I agree with the sentiment that Iris should have been told Barry's secret, I'm not on the Iris is justified bandwagon. In fact, I think in this episode she came off as a whiny, entitled harpy. She had made it clear on numerous occasions that she was "with Eddie" and that her and Barry's relationship had changed, and by that measure, Barry owed her nothing. Pulling the friendship card was hollow, too, because what did she bring to the relationship? "Wah! You don't tell me stuff!" "Wah! You better save my dad!" "Wah! You save people all the time, why can't you save Eddie?!?" "WAH! Why won't you give me an exclusive for my job?!?" Never once showed an ounce of concern about what Barry was going through with this change, particularly with his overdeveloped sense of duty and fair play. She was selfish.

[KirkB]

Didn't Joe have cracked/broken ribs by that point? I've never had that problem but I imagine it hurts like hell. So constant pain just from breathing coupled with having a giant telepathic gorilla in your face and in your head would make just about anyone a little weepy.

 

BTW, I loved Grodd. He's not the kind of villain I want to see every week, it would ruin the fun, but I like the idea he shows up every once and a while and everyone just freaks.

 

Iris didn't need to rage on Barry or Joe. What would it have accomplished? She was pissed and rightfully so, but I think the disappointment and anger together sold a lot better. 

 

And while equating keeping the Flash secret to her feelings does come from the writers, in story it is Barry saying it. It's flawed reasoning, yes, but it's Barry trying to justify things, to her and to himself. Doesn't mean he's right.

 

And Barry WAS searching for Eddie. It was the opening. Did people want to watch a whole episode of nothing but him running around looking for Eddie? He said he checked everywhere. While I doubt that's literally true, we don't even know if Eobard and Eddie are still in CC.

[miracole]

Loved the way they had Iris handle the situation.  They even had her give Barry one last chance to come clean on his own.  I like that they had her more disappointed  than mad beacause that's why she's angry at them, the fact that they didn't trust her enough or think her capable enough to deal with the truth. That's disappointing, she thought that they knew her better than than that and that she knew them better than that.  No matter who else has entered the equation She and Barry are supposed to be best friends, him being the flash was definitely something Iris should have been told. She wasn't whiny at all. She stood up for herself and every point she made was valid.

 

I do want Barry and Iris to end up together but between Joe treating Eddie like crap for wanting to Marry Iris and wells trolling Eddie I also kinda want Eddie to get the girl. They need and extra Iris or at least reality...

[TobinAlbers]

 

I do want Barry and Iris to end up together but between Joe treating Eddie like crap for wanting to Marry Iris and wells trolling Eddie I also kinda want Eddie to get the girl. They need and extra Iris or at least reality...

 

I really want Eddie to get an awesome lady as well and have been racking my brain trying to think of a kick ass female superheroine that he'd be interesting with but given that Eddie is a second tier supporting they ain't gonna waste time on giving him someone unless they're on the show (Caitlin or Iris) or become an integral second lead on the show OR Eddie's importance changes and he becomes a higher profile supporting character. If not then he'd almost do better joining the spin-off to grow as a character and get a better love story over there.

 

There is the theory that Eddie may indeed be more important than Eobard realizes in that the phrases he used of him being utterly forgettable are used to describe Booster Gold whose heroism is intentionally wiped from common history knowledge.

Booster Gold's son? Rip Hunter who is a lead on the spin-off. So Eddie may actually be a hero in disguise and/or have a bigger destiny that currently predicted.

[Unclejosh]

I was under the impression that Star Labs was basically shut down after the incident and no one knows that people still work there and that Team Flash was working in secret.  Am I misremembering?  

[Trini]

I was under the impression that Star Labs was basically shut down after the incident and no one knows that people still work there and that Team Flash was working in secret.  Am I misremembering?  

 

Well, all the Flash and meta-human stuff is definitely supposed to be secret; but I don't think STAR Labs still (barely) functioning is a secret. Because STAR Labs (via Cisco) did help out the CCPD with the heat shields in that episode with Capt. Cold.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Trini

[chelsie]

They were looking for Eddie. I think they figured he maybe with Wells, and to find Wells they needed to find Grodd.

[quarks]

I was under the impression that Star Labs was basically shut down after the incident and no one knows that people still work there and that Team Flash was working in secret.  Am I misremembering?  

 

Arrow had a side comment a couple of episodes back that included talking to a hospital doctor about Star Labs, and the hospital doctor just going with it, so I think the general public is supposed to be aware that Star Labs is still going, just not at the same level.

[AudienceofOne]

I was hoping there'd be some payoff to the treatment of Iris this season and was not disappointed. In that respect, despite the fact it degenerated into a romance discussion, this episode was great. Iris didn't let anyone off the hook, although the "I was furious until your life was in danger and now I forgive you" trope is too overused. Joe deserved way more of a bollocking than that.

 

I thought the MetaGorilla was about as ridiculous as MetaGorilas inevitably will be but I could handwave that. The thing that annoyed me was the final Iris/Barry ship stuff. I thought that was tacky. Iris realising she needs to break up with Eddie should have had far more of a lead-in and shouldn't have been so connected with her finding out Barry is the Flash. At least wait until he's not being held hostage. And saying, "I need to wait until he's not being held hostage" is not waiting.

 

But I feel the show has quite cleverly rolled out some comic book tropes (clueless, damsel love interest for example) and then pulverised them nicely. It's elevated it for me quite a lot.