S01.E10: Marco

[Ronin Jackson]

He didn't go from "I have to quit this life and go back to my clients" to "Screw this, I'm going to be a criminal". He went from "I have to go back to my clients" to "I'll pull the good 'ol Rolex scam with my buddy Marco one last time, before going back" to "Sh*t! My buddy Marco dropped dead after spending the past 10 years doing crap he didn't like doing, and I've been doing stuff for the last decade which I fundamantally didn't enjoy, because I was trying to please somebody else; do I really want the legal training Iworked so hard to obtain to be employed in a practice I really don't find to be enjoyable?"

 

Your points about Jimmy's motivation are sound. (our earlier debate was not so much a disagreement but not discussing the same subject, which seems to be the cause of many internet debates). Jimmy's impulses for being a schemer have been established in the series for a while, and audiences have responded so well to his earnestness in helping Chuck, helping Kim and the Sandpiper residents that some of those impulses may be getting lost. The show started with him running the scam with the skateboarders to acquire the Kettelmen's services, which led to him eventually taking a bribe, which was his seed money for the billboard ruse. Even his work with the elders, he's doing the elaborate bingo games and jello cup ads, making a much bigger spectacle out of advertising to them than your typical elder lawyer. Even his attempt to "make things right" with the Kettlemen's involved hiring Mike to break into their home and coerce them against their will. When he needed help with the wills he left them in Chuck's house knowing Chuck would do the work for him. It's been there the whole season and this episode established why he made the decision he did during that crossroads moment well. The threads with Chuck have been closed off well, and while I expect the character to return, they could be done with it if they chose to go that route. There is definitely more to tell with Kim.

[wrestlesflamingos]

Now that Walt is dead and Jesse has likely disappeared for good, what charges might be waiting for Saul? When he finds out those two are gone, might he resurface without fear of pursuit by the authorities?

Many, many murders including two DEA agents. Saul never returns to ABQ.

[carrps]

I will agree with Chuck on one thing --- apples. Red Delicious apples may be red, but they are not delicious. Fuji and Honeycrisp are my favs. But I do like Granny Smith -- with salt.

Second the recommendation for "Getting On" on HBO. Excellent series. My sister works in a hospital and says it's spot on, too.

[Starchild]

What did he have to do with the actual murders? Unless they were active participants, lawyers are not liable for their clients' crimes, are they?

 

ETA: I can't recall now: was Saul running from the law, or from other bad guys who were after Walt and Jesse (e.g., the bikers, drug cartels).

Edited April 7, 2015 by Starchild

[ShadowFacts]

Jesse made a comprehensive videotaped confession where prosecutors could unearth dozens of counts of money laundering for sure. Didn't Saul connect Walt with the exterminator crew which was robbing people? Much that he was doing was criminal. He wouldn't have gone to the vacuum cleaner guy unless he thought his situation was dire.

[Ohwell]

I will agree with Chuck on one thing --- apples. Red Delicious apples may be red, but they are not delicious. Fuji and Honeycrisp are my favs. But I do like Granny Smith -- with salt.

I found myself nodding in spite of myself when Chuck was lecturing the kid about the apples, because he was spot on.  Honeycrisps are more expensive, but those are the only ones I'll eat now.   Fujis are good also, but delicious are tasteless crap and they're not that juicy so they're hard on the gums.  So yeah, the Tin Foil Bastard was at least right about the apples.

[Starchild]

Jesse made a comprehensive videotaped confession where prosecutors could unearth dozens of counts of money laundering for sure. Didn't Saul connect Walt with the exterminator crew which was robbing people? Much that he was doing was criminal. He wouldn't have gone to the vacuum cleaner guy unless he thought his situation was dire.

Has anyone watched the entire confession on the DVD? Was Saul explicitly implicated in anything criminal by Jesse? Yes Saul's position was dire when he ran, but was it because he feared prison? Or execution?

[ShadowFacts]

I don't think they ever showed the whole confession, only him starting out.  Hank had said he had to tell everything, and I guess I assumed he at least hit all the high points.  I think Saul feared prosecution, and being murdered.  Any one of those meth kings and assorted henchmen (who haven't already been killed) would have a strong motive not to ever want him to talk, as in getting himself a deal with the government.

[lucindabelle]

Hah yeah, I agree with chuck, but he was a dick about it. The more he said "it's a small thing" the worse it got. If you have a shopping list, just write it out yourself. Why make it a big deal in which it becomes this personal interaction with you subtly putting down the shopper?

Just exert some effort and specify what you want.

 

Oh but wait, it's sooooo much more gratifying to let someone get it wrong and belittle them.

[peeayebee]

And Krazy 8 is delivering Dr Pepper.

I saw that last week and thought hey wait a minute I recognize him!!!   

What did you see last week? Oh, and where in 'Marco' did Krazy 8 appear? Was it at the bar in Cicero?

 

I found myself nodding in spite of myself when Chuck was lecturing the kid about the apples, because he was spot on.  Honeycrisps are more expensive, but those are the only ones I'll eat now.   Fujis are good also, but delicious are tasteless crap and they're not that juicy so they're hard on the gums.

My absolute favorite now is Pink Ladies. My second is Tango. I don't like Red Delicious either.

Edited April 7, 2015 by peeayebee

[Umbelina]

I will agree with Chuck on one thing --- apples. Red Delicious apples may be red, but they are not delicious. Fuji and Honeycrisp are my favs. But I do like Granny Smith -- with salt.

Second the recommendation for "Getting On" on HBO. Excellent series. My sister works in a hospital and says it's spot on, too.

The trick to Red Delicious is to eat them in season, late fall.  I live in the PNW, and they are "delicious" when they've just been harvested.  The problem with Red Delicious once they are shipped away, is that they keep well in appearance, and are popular, so stores try to stock them year round.  Once a few months have passed though, they get mealy and tasteless, even though they still LOOK good. 

 

Oh, and I love Granny Smith too--with Stilton.  Yum. 

 

I think the reason Honey Crisps and others always taste better is that most stores, especially stores far from where they are grown, like ABQ, only stock them soon after harvest, so they don't have time to lose their taste.

 

I don't think they ever showed the whole confession, only him starting out.  Hank had said he had to tell everything, and I guess I assumed he at least hit all the high points.  I think Saul feared prosecution, and being murdered.  Any one of those meth kings and assorted henchmen (who haven't already been killed) would have a strong motive not to ever want him to talk, as in getting himself a deal with the government.

 

I wonder if Jesse would have outed Saul?  Probably.  Maybe not though.  Saul only laundered money early on in Walt's career.  I'll have to watch again to see what else Saul could be charged with, and try to figure out if he was running more from the drug guys, or the law.  There is also the chance that the tape was never found.  We saw it at the Nazi place, but who knows if it was still in the tape player, I kind of doubt it, surely they would have watched a few movies since then.  Maybe it was buried with the money, or hidden with it?  Maybe it was shot to shit in all the gunfire? 

 

A little help, what kind of tape was it, DVD or something else?

 

If Jimmy McGill (not Saul Goodman) started practicing law in some far away state, would ABQ even pick up on it after enough time had passed?

Edited April 7, 2015 by Umbelina

[ghoulina]

Kim is a softer version of Chuck. Neither of them are ever going to treat Jimmy as an equal. Whats worse? Leaving abruptly or watching someone you love pity you?

 

I don't think Kim looks down on Jimmy. She went to bat for him against Hamlin, something that could have cost her her job. I don't think we've seen anything close to that kind of loyalty out of Chuck. And then she tried to help him land the partner job at the other firm. I don't think she did that out of pity. I think she truly believes that Jimmy is a good lawyer, who deserves a real chance. One Chuck would never give him.  I don't think how those two feel about Jimmy or treat him are even close to comparable. 

 

It just occurred to me he might have been suppressing some rage about what Chuck did to him that he somehow let the lid off in that parking lot.  At that moment, and it appears impulsive, he completely threw off taking that great opportunity because it was just too Chuck-like and he is now renouncing all things Chuck might have approved of.

 

I could totally buy that. If it had been clear. I just didn't feel that anything about his decision was clear. But Gilligan does love ambiguity. Maybe we'll get more about his motivation next season?

[haydensterling]

I'm a bit concerned that what we heard from Jimmy to Kim regarding her concern and the hug "that was nice" was also suppressed rage.  I really want Kim and Jimmy's relationship to continue in some way.  I don't think he's pissed at her--he apologized for giving her shit--but I think he's emotionally pretty shut down right now and I seriously just need this guy to have one person that he trusts to have his back actually have his back. It doesn't have to be romantic.  He just needs someone who accepts him for whoever he is. Part of the problem being that I think Jimmy himself doesn't know, though it appears he's definitely moving in a direction. 

It would be really gross if Kim ended up with Hamlin, although I sort of always thought this was where the show was headed anyhow, and though shipping is about the least of my concerns I just thought I'd throw this out there.

[Umbelina]

I really don't see it as renouncing Chuck or Marco.  It's much more about finding out what HE wants.  He's done doing what other people want him to do.

[Ronin Jackson]

What did you see last week? Oh, and where in 'Marco' did Krazy 8 appear? Was it at the bar in Cicero?

I was thrown by the Krazy 8 references in this thread too, thinking I'd missed something. I had to use Google to learn it's all over his appearance in a Dr. Pepper commercial. Being dogmatically commercial free, I don't think I missed anything. I would like to see Krazy 8 and Emilio show up on the actual show though (Emilio is already an established Saul connection).

[ToastnBacon]

Has anyone watched the entire confession on the DVD? Was Saul explicitly implicated in anything criminal by Jesse? Yes Saul's position was dire when he ran, but was it because he feared prison? Or execution?

He was clearly implicated in Walt and Jesse's criminal enterprise from money laundering to his role in poisoning that kid.

The Feds are after him for certain...

It is Huel's and Skyler's testimony that would sink him, not the Jesse video... The Nazi crew stole that video from Hank's house.

Edited April 7, 2015 by ToastnBacon

[Umbelina]

Good point. 

 

I can't see Skylar testifying really, (5th amendment and trading the information about where the DEA agents are buried.)  She's pretending she had no idea about any of this, other than being threatened by her husband. 

 

Huel?  Much more possible, although he really doesn't strike me as the snitch type, and I don't know how much even a public defender would advise him to confess about.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Umbelina

[ShadowFacts]

 

A little help, what kind of tape was it, DVD or something else?

 

If Jimmy McGill (not Saul Goodman) started practicing law in some far away state, would ABQ even pick up on it after enough time had passed?

I think it was a DVD, can't swear to it.  And I want to think that the FBI, DEA, Justice Department and their assorted technologies would catch a Jimmy McGill trying to get a Nebraska law license, but who knows, maybe not.  I personally am too risk-averse to think it would be a good idea to try.  Saul probably would have to create a whole new identity.

[Bannon]

Your points about Jimmy's motivation are sound. (our earlier debate was not so much a disagreement but not discussing the same subject, which seems to be the cause of many internet debates). Jimmy's impulses for being a schemer have been established in the series for a while, and audiences have responded so well to his earnestness in helping Chuck, helping Kim and the Sandpiper residents that some of those impulses may be getting lost. The show started with him running the scam with the skateboarders to acquire the Kettelmen's services, which led to him eventually taking a bribe, which was his seed money for the billboard ruse. Even his work with the elders, he's doing the elaborate bingo games and jello cup ads, making a much bigger spectacle out of advertising to them than your typical elder lawyer. Even his attempt to "make things right" with the Kettlemen's involved hiring Mike to break into their home and coerce them against their will. When he needed help with the wills he left them in Chuck's house knowing Chuck would do the work for him. It's been there the whole season and this episode established why he made the decision he did during that crossroads moment well. The threads with Chuck have been closed off well, and while I expect the character to return, they could be done with it if they chose to go that route. There is definitely more to tell with Kim.

I like making Howard more sympathetic, because I think it opens story possibilities with regard to the Kim/Howard/Saul dynamic. If Howard really isn't a complete unfiltered creep, and begins to treat Kim respectfully, then it becomes more believable that Kim sees HHM as her obvious best future, and associating with Saul dangerous to that future. Howard was pretty one dimensional before, and now we see the possibiity of more to him, and that nearly always makes for better drama.

 

My favorite crime related movie ever is "Goodfellas", because in my view it does the best of getting to what lies at the heart of a lot of criminality; the criminals think it is fun. Now the real life people played by DeNiro and Pesci in that movie were the worst of the worst, and the worst fictional characters of BB had nothing on them in terms of depravity. If you remember the (also real life) Morrie character in that movie, who eventually gets killed with an ice pick by Pesci, he kind of reminds me of a far less competent and somewhat less noble version of Saul. Not a black hearted predator of the weak, but rather a guy enamored of the fun at the edge of the worst criminality. I hope Saul, who is a lot more intelligent and disciplined than Morrie in "Goodfellas", never gets a Morrie-like end in his Omaha future. 

Edited April 7, 2015 by Bannon

[nachomama]

So we all agree red delicious are yucky? 

[ToastnBacon]

When Jimmy was talking to Kim in the garage and Kim said, "that's very adult of you." And he replies with, "The Dali Lama has nothing on me." They both knew that wasn't true.

I said earlier that I thought Kim had already rejected him as a lover a long time ago. Their relationship wasn't going anywhere as a couple.

Now, I'm not sure they can even be close friends again.

Jimmy rejected the law firm and all of its trappings, Kim is clearly a part of that world.

He is Saul now, and he is going to intentionally thumb his nose at that class of lawyers.

I don't see Kim or Jimmy trying too hard to stay close to one another.

Kim is Hamlin's girl now.

[TVFan17]

I only have a minute to rattle off several random comments -- I'll have to come back later and try to make some actual sense! -- but wanted to mention these things before they slipped my mind:

 

1.  Loved the Kevin Costner reference!

 

2.  Loved the Belize reference!  I was waiting for Belize to come up sooner or later, and when it did the first thing I wondered was, "Is Marco going to go to Belize by the end of this episode?"  (I was still surprised that Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould chose to name another character Marco, when they have a Marco in Breaking Bad -- though the two Marcos couldn't be more different in demeanor and personality.)

 

3.  Loved the Georgia O'Keeffe reference!  I couldn't help but think of Jane and Jesse.

 

4.  Loved all of the "B" balls that kept popping up during Bingo -- I will be interested to see if those Bs are talked about on the podcast.

 

5.  I couldn't help but wonder who it was that Mike was about to start working with/for (the person he was discussing on the phone).

 

6.  I loved the explanation of the Chicago Sun Roof -- I had been wondering what it meant and was glad to finally have that riddle solved.

 

7.  It was a good, solid finale that left me eager to see Season 2, as the transformation from Jimmy to Saul speeds up and new, interesting clients and characters come into play.  It's a shame that we will likely have to wait until February for S2.  I am even slightly eager to see what happens with Chuck at this point, and he has annoyed me all season long.

[shapeshifter]

You knew Jimmy was out of sorts during Bingo when he didn't remind everyone to take their was selected.

What was the physics that caused the blue-striped Bs to keep coming out?

 

There was a listlessness to this ep that made me restless watching it. The other episodes have been bang on point, but I didn't think this one was...

I thought it bookended the first episode that way.

 

...I mention this because Hamlin told Jimmy that Hamlin always kind of liked Jimmy, that Hamlin used to call Jimmy "Charlie Hustle"...

Charlie and Chuck are both diminutive forms of Charles. I thought of the nickname as meaning that Jimmy was the young hustler brother of Charles/Chuck. I also thought it was kind of a backhanded compliment.

If they show any more Cicero scenes next season, there better be shivering and snow, or it won't be Chicago.

Edited April 7, 2015 by shapeshifter

[ToastnBacon]

"Charlie Hustle" is a common compliment that coaches use to praise a motivated player. Like an earlier poster said it is strongly linked to Pete Rose, who was the epitome of " Charlie Hustle"...

That was until Pete Rose was mired by a gambling scandal and the term took on a double meaning.

Edited April 7, 2015 by ToastnBacon

[editorgrrl]

If they show any more Cicero scenes next season, there better be shivering and snow, or it won't be Chicago.

The Chicago scenes are filmed in Albuquerque.

On the "Better Call Saul" Insider podcast, they talked about how they digitally added snow on the ground outside the cop bar in "Philadelphia." But I bet they'll set most flashbacks in non-winter.

Edited April 8, 2015 by editorgrrl

[FoundTime]

I’m putting a lot of the weight of how I’m reading this on (1) Peter Gould writing and directing the epi – Saul is his character, and (2) I don’t believe Vince Gilligan does anything by accident – so I feel like there’s something especially important in what the season left us with in the last scene. Specifically to the latter, I feel like Jimmy felt, after his week with Marco and how it all ended, that any money you “legitimately” earned by using your skills and abilities and talents, was rightfully yours, whether it was 80 bucks for a Kennedy half-dollar or half of the Kettlemans’ 1.6mil. (Or his cut of Walter White’s ill-gotten gains.) Whereas we see that for Mike (and true to his character, I think) it’s all (just) about the job.

 

The idea of Jimmy going with the Santa Fe firm was intriguing – though at first I was confused, as it would take the show’s setting out of ABQ, then I thought, well, why not? We don’t know what happened to Jimmy before he became Saul – that’s the whole point of the show, after all. But I got the feeling, as Jimmy was rehearsing his greeting the Santa Fe lawyers, that he realized he wasn’t meant to be in that kind of environment.

 

I don’t think any of this precludes his continuing to help his elder law clients.

 

Hoping we get to see more of Kim next season; there is clearly a backstory between her and Jimmy and I want to know more about it. I came to be very fond of their relationship.

 

The montage for me was an old-timey movie device. Not my favorite artsy shot in the VG oeuvre but it made its point.

[Ohwell]

The problem with Red Delicious once they are shipped away, is that they keep well in appearance, and are popular, so stores try to stock them year round.  Once a few months have passed though, they get mealy and tasteless, even though they still LOOK good.

Now that you mention it, I do remember reading an article last year about stores stocking those things year round because they're supposed to be so popular in the U.S.  

[editorgrrl]

I’m putting a lot of the weight of how I’m reading this on (1) Peter Gould writing and directing the epi – Saul is his character, and (2) I don’t believe Vince Gilligan does anything by accident – so I feel like there’s something especially important in what the season left us with in the last scene. Specifically to the latter, I feel like Jimmy felt, after his week with Marco and how it all ended, that any money you “legitimately” earned by using your skills and abilities and talents, was rightfully yours, whether it was 80 bucks for a Kennedy half-dollar or half of the Kettlemans’ 1.6mil. (Or his cut of Walter White’s ill-gotten gains.) Whereas we see that for Mike (and true to his character, I think) it’s all (just) about the job.

 

Peter Gould spoke to Entertainment Weekly about the finale and season 2.

Standing in the parking lot, touching the ring, what was going through [Jimmy's] head? How did get from walking into the interview, rehearsing what he was going to say, to ‘Screw this!’?

 

Our goal was to have the audience fill some of that in and do some of the math on their own. I don’t want to trample the things that people are bringing to it, but you have to think that the fact that he’s playing with that little pinky ring that was Marco’s has something to do with it. The fact that as he drives away he sings “Smoke on the Water,” which is sort of Marco’s theme. You have to think that those things mean that he’s not giving up on his Slippin’ Jimmy self. Who knows? Maybe he’s found a way he thinks to make Jimmy McGill and Slippin’ Jimmy both live at the same time. Maybe he’s found a way to use all his abilities. Whatever it is, he’s in a good mood about it.

[LoneHaranguer]

What Peter Gould said sounds suspiciously like it's not something they entirely worked out and are looking for viewers to fanwank what happened.

[wrestlesflamingos]

I'll be the jerk here, I like red delicious apples. Have 3 of em now. So what.

[ShadowFacts]

 

What Peter Gould said sounds suspiciously like it's not something they entirely worked out and are looking for viewers to fanwank what happened.

I agree, and it totally ignores the conversation with Mike.  I mean I know the episode title is Marco's name, there's the lengthy Marco Chicago interlude, he dies, Jimmy is wearing his ring, Smoke on the Water is playing, so YEAH, that's all in his head, but what else? 

[peeayebee]

I was thrown by the Krazy 8 references in this thread too, thinking I'd missed something. I had to use Google to learn it's all over his appearance in a Dr. Pepper commercial.

Ohhhh. Thanks. I thought there was a scene where Krazy 8 is working as a Dr Pepper deliverer, bringing boxes into that bar. Now I guess I'll look that commercial up.

 

 

What Peter Gould said sounds suspiciously like it's not something they entirely worked out and are looking for viewers to fanwank what happened.

 

I don't agree, but I also don't think they wrote that very well. Yes, it's good to leave something for the audience to figure out. Intelligent viewers don't want everything spelled out for them. But I really don't think this quite worked. I'll have to see if I feel any differently when I rewatch.

[peggy06]

Kim is a softer version of Chuck. Neither of them are ever going to treat Jimmy as an equal. Whats worse? Leaving abruptly or watching someone you love pity you?

Bingo. When Kim embraced Jimmy at HHM, Jimmy hardly responded. He said, "That was nice." Jimmy knows the score, knows Kim pulled strings for him. That wasn't what he ever wanted. I don't know if Kim will return, but for me, their storyline could be considered closed. It was rude of him, but I guess he'd rather cut it off cold than be condescended to - even in the very nicest way. 

 

Haydensterling wrote:

If anything, I'm trying to watch this show as divorced from BrBa as I can, because at this point I really am more interested in Jimmy than in seeing Walt or Jesse show up on my screen--although not gonna lie, I kind of wanted that when this was first announced.

 

 

I agree. I don't think about Walt or Jesse or Gus when I watch this show. This is a different show and a different kind of show. I'm pleasantly surprised by how good it is. 

 

As for the quickness of the turnaround, I don't know. This is a man who was rocked back on his heels by a brother's betrayal, just when he thought he was finally about to get the validation he'd wanted from that brother for years. Then his old friend from home drops dead practically in front of him. You don't get over those kind of shocks in a day or a week. His demeanor throughout the episode was of a man struggling with something. Maybe his decision was crazy, maybe it wasn't the best he could have made, maybe on another day, he'd have done something different. Clumsy or not, I still prefer that he made his fate rather than was cornered into it.

Edited April 8, 2015 by peggy06

[ghoulina]

1.  Loved the Kevin Costner reference!

 

That chick was crazy, getting all offended that he wasn't Kevin Costner. You just now realized that? You really think Kevin Costner would take you back to an air mattress in a basement in Cicero???

[John Ramos]

@TaraAriano CHUBOWSKI

[ShadowFacts]

That basement apartment was pretty depressing.  I liked that Marco had a crockpot, though.  I'm thinking the woman had an extreme case of beer goggles.  Lots of beer.

[SignGuy]

The Chicago scenes are filmed in Albuquerque. On the "Better Call Saul" Insider podcast, they talked about how they digitally added snow on the ground outside the cop bar.

That was s'posed to be Philadelphia, weren't it?

[editorgrrl]

That was s'posed to be Philadelphia, weren't it?

Yep—I'll fix that.

[SignGuy]

But your point stands. Even the snowy New Hampshire scenes from the penultimate Breaking Bad episode were filmed in New Mexico.

[shapeshifter]

That was s'posed to be Philadelphia, weren't it?

Huh? What? You guys are killing me here. I just figured out that I did not miss a Crazy 8 cameo in the actual episode, and now you're telling me they were in Philly, not Cicero???

Anyway, is this the commercial all you fine upstanding cable-paying citizens saw?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WegzlLehL5o

Edited April 8, 2015 by shapeshifter

[SignGuy]

Huh? What? You guys are killing me here. I just figured out that I did not miss a Crazy 8 cameo in the actual episode, and now you're telling me they were in Philly, not Cicero???

Anyway, is this the commercial all you fine upstanding cable-paying citizens saw?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WegzlLehL5o

Cicero was Cicero. Philly was earlier, during Mike's back-story.

And yes that's the commercial. Krazy 8 looks so happy. In another life ...

[lucindabelle]

Peter Gould spoke to Entertainment Weekly about the finale and season 2.

You all know this about me by now, but I'm just unimpressed with the Creator's Word. He can say what he meantall day long, but if it's not what we saw, it's not waht happened. The actor didnt play it, the signfiicator didn't become a sign.

[ketose]

I don't know that Jimmy's "transformation" this episode is any different than his decisions in the season so far. Jimmy scrapes by, then tries to do something shady to eventually become legitimate. He tries to get the Kettlemans as clients with his sales pitch. Then he tries to scam them. Then he does everything he can to not get his cohorts killed. He finally gets the Ketlemans and he delivers them back to Kim anyway.

 

Every episode has been ups and downs in Jimmy's career. Most of his victories have been due to his schemes (the rigged sign and the elderly clients) and his failures have been due to going straight (losing control of the Sandpiper case, losing the Kettlemans as clients). In order to do the right thing for the Kettlemans, he had to do two shady things, track them down and steal their money.

 

Besides being shady, he's had to hide his talents in front of his clients. One thing about Saul on Breaking Bad, he always told Walt and Jesse how much shady stuff he had to do to make their arrangement work. He was proud of it, and he could tell them because they were in on it. I very much doubt we're there quite yet.

[Toaster Strudel]

I hope the positive interactions between the characters remain, that is a central tenet of the show for me; how much people love Jimmy, and how good he is to those that love him.

 

Honeycrisps are the only apples worth eating.  They are like Fujis, only better.  Someone should tell Chuck.

[Irlandesa]

So much good stuff to respond to...

One last thought.  Jimmy hasn't abandoned his rest home clients.  They are in excellent hands, two top law firms.  They are much better off for having met Jimmy, and yeah, they like, trust, and will miss him.  He doesn't have to please them anymore either.  Bingo is over.

Great thoughts but I don't think Jimmy is necessarily done with the elder clients.  In fact, working freelance for HHM might be the way for him to maintain his independence yet serve the clients he found.  I just think he's done trying to be just like his older brother.  That doesn't necessarily mean he won't continue to interact with an older clientele but next time a Nacho walks through the door, he'll work to keep him a client, regardless of where that money comes from. No more creative accounting to justify taking dirty money.

 

 I suspect it was written that way in the event BCS was not renewed.

BCS was renewed shortly after the pilot was shot.  So when this episode was written, they already knew they were getting a second season.

 

Honeycrisps are more expensive, but those are the only ones I'll eat now. 

Not to belabor the apple talk but if you like Honeycrisp, you might like one of its hybrid varieties called Sweet Tango.  They're my apple of choice these days.  To bring this on topic...does that 1.6 million represent Jimmy's forbidden fruit?

 

Jimmy rejected the law firm and all of its trappings, Kim is clearly a part of that world.

Kim is Hamlin's girl now.

I don't think it's a total repudiation of everything in that world.  I just think he's going to stop being a part of it.  And I also think his feelings for Kim are so strong that he's not going to completely shut her out.   But his choice to to go greyer will eventually take him further from her while she definitely seems to fit in at HHM. Will she hook up with Hamlin as suggested above?  I'm not sure but I could see it being yet another small thing that pushes Jimmy to become Saul as I think she, along with Chuck, was a reason for him to play it straight.

 

What Peter Gould said sounds suspiciously like it's not something they entirely worked out and are looking for viewers to fanwank what happened.

I think the biggest issue with the episode is that it's the season finale.  I don't think that ending would be so difficult to accept if it weren't for the fact that it has a sense of finality to it...until next season, anyway.  If there were another episode next week, we'd know soon if that last scene was Jimmy 100% embracing being a lawyer who was a criminal or if it was just big talk foreshadowing a larger shift but the one he takes the next day is actually much smaller.  I suspect the latter but we won't know for sure until next season.

 

And yes, Gould does sound like he's leaving things open ended.  Gilligan did that too.  I don't recall him ever totally shooting down fan speculation.  He could be asked whether or not Walt was actually Mike's long lost son and he'd say something like "Well that's an interesting theory."  So they do like the audience to speculate and interpret.  And no, they don't always have everything figured out.  They have the hiatus to figure out where to take Jimmy next.  So anyone who binges this show likely won't be as frustrated by this episode as some of us are.  Because I agree with a review I heard--it felt simultaneously slow and rushed.

[duVerre]

 

 

Jimmy rejected the law firm and all of its trappings, Kim is clearly a part of that world.

He is Saul now, and he is going to intentionally thumb his nose at that class of lawyers.

I don't see Kim or Jimmy trying too hard to stay close to one another.

Kim is Hamlin's girl now.

 

I don't think they'll draw the line between A and B quite so quickly or directly. It ain't over til it's over.

 

 

Didn't seem forced or rushed to me at all. To the contrary, I think it was a perfectly logical and natural progression of events. Jimmy finally picked a side, and it was the side that fits best with his true nature. Which isn't that of a "bad guy" but a guy who's comfortable with the seedy underbelly. A guy who doesn't necessarily see grifters as "bad guys" any more than the griftees. A guy who doesn't see things in black and white, a guy who takes a certain kind of pride in defending somebody who maybe pulled a simple Chicago Sunroof to stick it to a douchebag and got himself into one hell of a bind because of it. A guy who is no longer ashamed of being looked down upon by the 1%. A guy who's no longer interested in being shit upon by The System. A guy who isn't beholden to what he's "supposed to" do or be. He's finally free. Free of Chuck, free of HHM, free of all of it

 

This is exactly how it seems to me--on paper. In real life, a lot of big, bold decisions happen in stages, for a number of overlapping reasons. But I don't think the writers really telescoped Jimmy's experience in an exciting way. They didn't make them feel urgent enough. I wasn't thinking "Oh boy, now we're in for it! Can't wait! What will happen, what will he do?" It was more like, "Yeah, figured you'd make this decision, but what took you so long?"

 

Maybe I needed to see Jimmy in complete, prostrate despair about Marco's death. I know that he was grieving, and I saw it onscreen as far as it went. But I wish it had been shown more profoundly. IMO, the bingo-calling was incredibly moving. You could feel that Jimmy, feeling so much grief and disillusionment about Chuck, was fighting to just keep his head above water and function. If somehow the show had been able to make me see more of how Marco's death affected Jimmy, his eventual decision to go off on his own (professionally) would have felt more urgent, more like something Jimmy would do to save his own emotional life.

 

Or not. I'm just a viewer, so what do I know. I guess I just feel a bit marooned. I like mystery a lot, and I don't need things to be spelled out for me. Even so, the conclusion left me out in the cold. Jimmy's decision didn't seem to matter. ... Well, objectively, of course, I know it matters; it's the turning point of the whole series--but somehow all the plots point came together, made a small light and just fizzled out.

Edited April 8, 2015 by duVerre

[queenanne]

I too don't think we've seen the last of Kim, TPTB spent too much time caring about Odenkirk and Seehorn's chemistry for 10 episodes, in that case.  (I wouldn't say she's not going to wind up with Howard either - now that he's been shown nice to Jimmy there's room for some renewed betrayal - but I don't think they have that kind of relationship now, at any rate.)

 

I'm also looking very forward to Jaul/Saul eventually I think.  His "evil" never bothered me because it was skillful as a chess grand master, or someone plucking the strings of a marionette, so my morals can be bought for some entertainment, lol.

[Oscirus]

Skyler definitely gave up Saul, two agents got killed. There's no way they'd let her stonewall them.

 

I don't see this as being a quick transition, it was ten years in the making. And as others have pointed out, he was running scams even when he tried to do good.  I think the only difference between him now and at the beginning of the show is that he's a bit more morally compromised. I doubt that he'll look out for his friends as much as he did. If he gets a good client, he'll keep them.  But ultimately, he'll be the same person with the same friends until they tire of his new outlook on life.

 

I wonder how Kim will react if she one day shows up at the Cinnabon he's working at as she's passing through town on the way to another case

[SlackerInc]

Also, as far as the first scene of the season, and all we know about Saul?  That was the first scene, not the last, and I have serious hopes that Saul doesn't stay at Cinnabon by the time this series ends.

 

There's been a steady drumbeat along these lines ever since the pilot; as long as that continues I'm going to be a broken record trying to counter it.  I think people who want to see more of Saul in Omaha have completely missed the point of that prologue.  I seriously hope the PTB do not return there, except perhaps for a minute or two at the very end of the series (like, Saul/Gene pops out the tape and goes to bed, or alternately, eats a bullet).

 

My absolute favorite now is Pink Ladies. My second is Tango. I don't like Red Delicious either.

 

I was hoping someone would mention Pink Ladies!  Just as good as Honey Crisp IMO, but much easier on the wallet.

 

I'll be the jerk here, I like red delicious apples. Have 3 of em now. So what.

 

Hey, I figured someone had to be eating them (beyond school cafeterias looking to save money), or they wouldn't be so ubiquitous in stores.  That's a good, inexpensive situation for you then.  :)

Edited April 8, 2015 by SlackerInc

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Scrambled thoughts.

 

• I thought the mark in the Kennedy half-dollar scam was a cop or maybe a numismatist who was having a nice laugh to himself, just hoping that they would be stupid enough to take him on.
• I never saw Saul as a particularly evil or nasty person.  He was no saint, either.  I am completely buying the Jimmy that we are seeing.  
• Ernesto wasn't being abused, as far as I can tell, in any way by Chuck.   He was there to do a job and Chuck well outlined the demands.  When Ernesto wasn't writing down the tasks, Chuck rightly requested he do so.  When the requests were totally personal, Chuck clearly acknowledged that he was asking for stuff beyond the bounds of a standard lawyer.  If anything, I thought Chuck was too nice.
• In an interview of PG released Tuesday, I read where Saul was most definitely supposed to make his first appearance by the end of this season.  But, they discovered they loved the nice/kind/conflicted Jimmy so much that they put off Saul's coming.  Had they known what they would end up feeling about Jimmy, Nacho would not have been introduced as early as he was.  I totally believe this.
• I've decided that ultimately Jimmy is Gollum.  The pull of what Marco's ring represents ends up driving his actions and his core self-belief.  Now, I would dearly love to know if Saul was wearing that ring at the Cinnabon or in his Nebraska digs.
• I was super pleased to see Mike in this ep.  This may have been me, but I was rapturous over Banks' slightly brighter face when he first encountered Jimmy.  He had the beginning of a twinkle in his eye.  The dialogue was fantastic.  Mike chooses the work he does and Jimmy had just made his life decision.  Criminal peas in a pod.
• Jimmy would have most likely have had to go into debt to accept a partnership.   I get it.  However, there is every reason to believe that the new firm would have been pleased as punch to make him "of counsel," which would have meant nice dollars in his pocket right away, and freedom to do a ton of other stuff.  This whole gambit was just not necessary to the story.  Given that they knew they were delaying Jimmy's final transformation, it most certainly was not needed in this ep. 
• What became of the Cutlass?
• I did not get the feel that Jimmy was all that "off" during the vast majority of the Bingo rant.   Yeah, he wasn't Matlock, but the looks of concern from everyone before he did his walk-around didn't seem warranted.  He just wanted the darn game to end.  That final "mic drop" was anachronistic to me.  It has become  "thing" now to do that.  It was not a thing back then.
• I sure hope that Jimmy is going to go one-on-one against Howard on some case.  That encounter with grudging respect each way was really good.  That truce will die a very quick death if they have a legal battle of any sort.
• The bottom line for me on this ep is that TPTB took great indulgence.  They MORE than earned it.  I love them for allowing BO and ME to help take them to places they had not foreseen and brilliantly adapted.  Brilliantly.  This is a wonderful show and we are all invited on one helluva ride.