S04.E16: Poor Unfortunate Soul

[KarateKate]

Fanwank: seems the reason Hook doesn't consider Ursula getting her happy ending to run counter to 'villains can't have happy endings' is that he views himself as the villain of Ursula's story. She was the sweet mermaid that he corrupted ergo she wasn't the villain-- he was.

I'll buy it.

I loved Ernie Hudson as Poseidon, but I had mixed feelings about OUaT gutting Ariel's story to give it to Ursula. I mean, clearly the elevation of Cruella to having magical powers is worse, but... I'll buy it with the earlier poster's point (sorry uncredited poster!) that since Ursula made a point that she was named after powerful, ancient Ursula and changed herself to be more like her *might* not be the same Ursula/Sea Witch from Ariel's story. Which actually makes it MORE confusing the overlap in stories and soundtracks, but I'm only buying into these enough to let me not sink into the bubbling disdain for uneven storytelling.

[rachel1496]

Now we have confirmation that the events in Wonderland have already happened, so I can continue to ask: WHERE IS YOUR WIFE, WILL?

Seriously.  Why are you here, where is your wife, why are you making out with Belle and how is it that talking to Hook about your time in Wonderland doesn't remind you that you have a damn wife you might want to go looking for?  I have some seriously unhealthy amounts of rage over this whole turn of events but I don't even care. 

For an Ursula-centric episode it left me with more questions than I already had.  What exactly did she do that was so bad that she was banished to the land without magic and who banished her?  How did she end up with Cruella and Mal?  Can she really grab her father's trident and declare herself an evil sea goddess and it happens just like that?

[BoPeeps]

Aside from the normal pot hole riddled adventure continuing, which I have come to accept because it is what it is...there were some sparkling moments. Now that I think about it, this show is a continued success because of sparkling moments that keep us entertained, not because of any continuity or in-depth development.

 

My favorites first and yes, they involve the luscious pirate and are quite shallow.

The Coat

The Boat (yes, I know, love, it's a ship but that doesn't rhyme with coat!)

The Eye Emotes

The Scruff was enough to satisfy my yearning for the return of tough Hook.

 

Better yet and not at all shallow...The Single tear trickling down Emma's cheek when she hears that she is Hook's happy ending. Her (and his) vulnerability was soul grabbing. No need for an "I love you"~ these were much more poignant words. Emma was ultimately open and human and trembling with emotion. So was Hook. A delightful and deeply sweet moment.

Good stuff.

 

Fun Stuff: The frying pan to the back of Cruella's head.

Pinocchio's very creepy growing nose and the even creepier torture. Rumple was oddly subdued and somewhat out of powerful Dark One character for most of the show, but this unexpected dark humor was...fun.

Smee being back!

One liners and their perfect delivery. SIZE MATTERS.

 

And a total aside (yes, actually, losing one's ability to sing IS horrendous to someone who sings their way through life. Devastating.)

 

The show redeemed itself quite a bit last night :)

[Spartan Girl]

Good episode and I loved seeing Ariel again, but I kind of feel like Ursula's subplot in the season was too short.  But then again, maybe it's better that they didn't drag it out.

[Zuleikha]

Except Regina got her happy ending in the book. That's how it ended. Regina won. The End. So no. This author plot is stupid.

 

But then Emma came to town, started literally restoring the lost happy endings, and broke the curse. All with the book present and actively involved. So I don't think it's too fanwanky to assume that Regina lost her happy ending when Emma broke the curse, especially given that Regina literally did lose the happy ending she got in the book, or that Emma's presence as the Savior is tied into the book and author magic. The main problem, for me, is still trying to map what's been told to us (heroes end up happy and villains end up unhappy) and what's been shown to us in which characters explicitly identified as heroes have unhappy endings (Marion being executed) and we just saw someone identified as a villain end up happy.

 

I am not wild about the execution of the author plot so far--too confusing with no understanding of who the Sorcerer and Author are, what their powers/limits are, and whether we should be concerned about the Sorcerer thinking it necessary to imprison the Author (after all, the Sorcerer has previously been shown to us as a powerful force in opposition to the Dark Ones, which would seem to imply the Sorcerer is a force for goodness or at least light magic). But I think the bones of the idea are solid and were established as part of the Once Upon a Time world from the very beginning. IMHO, the execution would be better if the arc had simply stayed focused on the Author quest without the Queens of Darkness distraction or if the writers were just willing to write some exposition to ground the arc. Last night, we spent so much time with Ursula, and yes, the story with her was interesting and moving and I really enjoyed it. But at the same time, all that time spent with Ursula meant there was no time for any of the characters to meaningfully react to August's revelation that the Sorcerer trapped the Author and question what that all means (as well as ask him how he knows that!).

[stealinghome]

Was Ursula ever even really evil? She`s kind of like a smarter version of Karen from Mean Girls. Shes the non malicious one who just goes along with what her mean girl friends do. Its not a perfect metaphor, but I am keeping this Plastics thing going as long as I can!

See, I think one thing the show was actually smart about with Ursula is not showing us all of her terrible deeds (like, oh, murdering a village, cursing an entire land, murdering one's wife, plotting to kill one's grandson...) and then 20 seconds later turning around and declaring "She deserves a happy ending! No, really!" I don't have a problem fanwanking/believing that Ursula did do some pretty bad crap, but because I didn't see it on my screen, it doesn't give me a visceral "oh HELL NO" to the prospect of her redemption.

 

I will laugh my ass off if in, like, 4x18 and 4x20 Cruella and Maleficent get their happy endings similar to how Ursula did in this episode, and Regina and Rumpel are left scratching their heads and staring at each other and being like "Gee, what is the common denominator between those three and not us? It can't be that they changed their behavior...can it???"

[Dani-Ellie]

So I don't think it's too fanwanky to assume that Regina lost her happy ending when Emma broke the curse, especially given that Regina literally did lose the happy ending she got in the book, or that Emma's presence as the Savior is tied into the book and author magic.

 

I think it would have helped had Regina not framed her desire to find the Author way back in 4x01 as because the Author is not giving her a happy ending. By her own logic, this Author is giving everyone else happy endings but her only evidence of this is a book in which the only one who won at the end of story is her. So the logic of Regina's original position doesn't track because like, the Author gave you your happy ending, Regina. The fact that it ultimately wasn't your happy ending is just life, not the Author's fault. If she'd framed her desire to find the Author as a way to find her happy ending rather than because the Author gave everyone else one but didn't give her one to begin with, I think it would have gone down easier.

 

I don't have a problem fanwanking/believing that Ursula did do some pretty bad crap, but because I didn't see it on my screen, it doesn't give me a visceral "oh HELL NO" to the prospect of her redemption.

 

This. Less is more with this stuff. It may be fun to show your villains being villains but you can't then turn around and cry "But they deserve happiness too!" when they've been shown irreparably ruining other people's happiness.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Dani-Ellie

[coops]

There were some things I liked about this episode, the scene were Gold was forcing August's nose to grow into the fire was a highlight, very tense and creepy scene. The homages to the little mermaid film were great. However I think I have managed to work out one of the show's major flaws while watching this episode. One of the first rules of writing is 'show dont tell' and in this episode there is SO MUCH telling! Some examples:

-The scene where Ursula explains to Hook how she broke into her father's vault and stole that cheap looking braclet thing. Wouldnt it have been far more satisfying to watch a scene where she steals it? At first the viewer would be wondering what she is up to but all would become clear once her fish tail turned into legs. Or she could even steal her father's staff to turn her tail into legs thus setting up the scene later when she uses the staff to turn her tail into tenticles.

-The scene where Ariel appears and hurriedly explains how she appeared with the jolly rodger. Erm what? It just went totally over my head, surely there could have been a better way to get her to appear without some babbling speech explaining away a de ex machina.

- Ursula's Dad appeared and quickly informed us how Ariel came to find him. If there had been a scene before, however short, of Ariel rushing off saying she was going to find someone who could help them then at least the sea kings appearence wouldnt of seemed so out of the blue.

Thats an awful lot of telling going on! Part of the reason for this is they dont have the time to show stuff so they have to explain away everything, if the seasons weren't split into two maybe this wouldn't be such a problem.

I'm kind of disappointed with Ursula. How was she a villian, what did she do exactly that made her a Queen of Darkness? Is she gone now? If treated right she could have been a villian for a whole season... what a let down!

[YaddaYadda]

So, mermaids are able to open portals under water?  Is that what I got from the show?  Ursula opened an underwater portal to Arendelle to get the Jolly Roger and Ariel brought Poseidon to Storybrooke through a portal?  Is this how they're able to cross realms?  Why didn't Ursula use that ability to escape her father?  Also, you're a mermaid, girl, just swim to that place your mother loved so much.

[kili]

I will laugh my ass off if in, like, 4x18 and 4x20 Cruella and Maleficent get their happy endings similar to how Ursula did in this episode, and Regina and Rumpel are left scratching their heads and staring at each other and being like "Gee, what is the common denominator between those three and not us? It can't be that they changed their behavior...can it???"

 

Ursula did not change her behavior. Last episode, she was involved with kidnapping a child (while also trashing Grannies, burning a police car and drinking! whatever). This episode, she participated in the torture of a man (who had recently been re-aged), made a deal to turn on her friends, attempted to kill Hook (he did give her the shell and it was her intent to kill him) and threatened to kill Snow. But, Hook (with an Ariel assist) worked to get her a happy ending anyway. Her Dad had finally learned his lesson too. So, once she got her happy ending, she was happy and may stay that way.

 

Now, the story seemed to imply that she is back on the right path and she did honour her deal with Hook (but even Regina and Rumple are momentarily honorable when they get what they wanted and thought would be their happy endings, only to quickly revert).

 

Now, Hook and Poseiden did do wrong things to Ursula which they fixed, but she did not redeem herself. She didn't right any of the wrongs that she did. She did not modify her behavior.

 

So, the lesson here isn't "Be good and be content with what you have and you will get your happy ending". The lesson from this episode is that "If you are evil, it is somebody else's fault and you will get your happy ending when they finally get off their duffs (and avoid being killed by you) to give you your happy ending." So,it sounds like it's Snow's job to give Regina her happy ending and Hook's job to give one to Rumple. No behavior modification required. Or maybe it is all up to the Author.

 

In other news, I'm a little vexed with Elsa bottling up poor Ariel that way. She should check for innocents before pulling a stunt like that. She got the pirates off the ship. Was Ariel alive in there or was she momentarily kind of frozen (the ship was in full sail in the bottle which implies it was frozen because there was no wind in there). But, we got to see Ariel again and it was a neat little twist.

[OnceUponAJen]

Well Ariel was able to cross realms underwater, from Neverland to Storybrooke in S3 and back again. I guess that's their explanation as to how it's done.

[retrograde]

On rewatch, my favorite moment of the episode is Snow being thrown by Ursula's tentacle:

[Curio]

Thats an awful lot of telling going on! Part of the reason for this is they dont have the time to show stuff so they have to explain away everything, if the seasons weren't split into two maybe this wouldn't be such a problem.

Speaking of telling and not showing...did they basically confirm that Hook traded the Jolly Roger to Blackbeard in exchange for a magic bean during the missing year? If so, [insert your expletive of choice] you writers! That was the one detail of Hook's adventure from the missing year that still had some mystery about it, and now you went and showed us your poker hand before you could play your cards. I've been holding out hope that maybe some day we would finally get to see that adventure play out on screen to solve that mystery, but now there's really no point to showing it because the writers have divulged everything about that story via some brief off-handed dialogue. Ugh, this pisses me off more than it should. (And no, it's not an issue of splitting the seasons into two that's causing the lack of time. It's a matter of the writers liking other inconsequential plots more. Sure, we could have seen Ursula breaking into her father's things or Ariel bringing Ursula's father back to Storybrooke, but the writers would rather show a pointless dream sequence about Regina and Robin, devote scenes upon scenes of Henry and Regina looking over a book with a magnifying glass, or purposely not show us things to make the "reveal" more "surprising." That's just sloppy, lazy writing.)

 

I'm also disappointed Hook seems to be buying into this author nonsense, too. Like many of you already pointed out, he literally just gave Ursula her happy ending without needing any help from an author. But I suppose it's in character for him to be self-loathing and believe his happy ending will get taken away from him again like it did with Liam and Milah. The way I see it, Hook is kind of the "agnostic" amongst all of this Operation Mongoose bullshit. Obviously, part of him knows that villains can potentially get happy endings, otherwise he wouldn't have perked up at Ariel's comment about villains going about it the wrong way or he wouldn't have gone through the trouble of getting Ursula's father back to reconcile. But there's still a part of him who worries that maybe there's some truth to all of it, even though it makes no freaking sense, because he sees Regina attempting to be a better person and still being unhappy. (Even though that's more about Regina's inability to see the good things around her instead of some author's fault.)

 

So I could see Hook's inner good angel vs. bad devil sitting on his shoulders telling him different outcomes to Operation Mongoose. This has obviously been eating away at him since that "beware of lurking pirates" scene when he still considered himself a villain and was thinking about the possibility of losing Emma. His "I hope so" after Emma says he has a mark in the hero column has a lot more weight and significance to it after watching this episode.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

Speaking of telling and not showing...did they basically confirm that Hook traded the Jolly Roger to Blackbeard in exchange for a magic bean during the missing year?

 

All the angst from 317 was for nothing.  Hook got himself cursed for like nothing.  And Ariel got to slap him three times in total which I still find pretty hilarious.

 

I don't know if it's Ariel I love or if it's Joanna Garcia who makes her all kinds of awesome with her line delivery.

[LizaD]

This show is so stupid I can't take it anymore. It's not even stupid in an entertaining ridiculously cheesy way but more like "I can feel my brain cells dying" kind of stupid.

 

So if the problem is Emma in the land without magic, why don't they just go back to the stupid Enchanted Forest? That seems a whole lot easier than trying to corrupt Emma of which we've seen no concrete plan or action yet. But they've already transported entire kingdoms back and forth at this point, it should be easier than peeling a banana.

 

Or since the way to time travel is already known and the ingredients are so easy to get, why the hell isn't that an option?

 

Hook literally was witness to Ursula's happy ending, of which he and Ariel gave to her and had nothing to do with some stupid Author, and then a second later is being all emo about the author and losing his? WTF? Seriously, none of this crap makes any sense.

 

They found yet another way to travel to land without magic and I don't buy the whole Rump was trying to figure out a way to bring magic along with him, hence the need for the Dark Curse explanation. Because the way to bring magic with him was using Snow and Charming's stupid hair. He could've pocketed that vial while hitching a ride on Ursula's tentacles. And if Snow and Charming's hair is enough to power the magic in Storybrooke, how are they not bald? Along with Cinderella and her prince or Aurora and Phillip?

[patchwork]

The ship in the bottle spell is of out of line with Elsa's power set that I'm going to headcanon that the spell itself was given to her by the rock trolls (if something's weird in Arendelle they're usually involved somehow). Elsa threw a rock or something at the Jolly Roger which is why Ariel thinks Elsa did it.  

 

I'm also choosing to believe that Ursula is on the Killian Jones path to redemption, going with her father is like Killian hanging around with the Charmings in that it puts them in a place where they can do good and change their behaviour but it's not a Regina style instant gratification quick fix.  

 

With the Jolly Roger back Emma can live somewhere other than her parents overcrowded apartment so there's that yay!  

Edited March 23, 2015 by patchwork

[coops]

I'm guessing Rumple could not have used a mermaid to get to a land without magic because the mermaids couldnt get to our world, only other magic worlds. The reason why they can now I guess is because Storybrooke has magic now.

[Delphi]

Finally an episode I could stand to rewatch. I loved everything for the most part. Ariel is so good, I would love to have some sort of adventure time with the jolly roger and have Ariel and Hook there. Something like Voyage of the Basset, if anyone's read that book.

I liked August. And I loved Snow abd her frying pan, frying pans, who knew, right? I wish they'd give Belle something to do though, she's so underused it's sad.

Snowing really needs to stop with all their skewed morality bullshit.

[DeLurker]

I don't know if it's Ariel I love or if it's Joanna Garcia who makes her all kinds of awesome with her line delivery.

So this.  I love her Ariel and they do a good job of making her relevant when she shows up in a story that I always look forward to seeing her.  I am glad she is not a regular though because then I think she would suffer from the same pointless non-stories that Red, Will, Belle (at times), etc...get.

 

I generally don't like when a show has a woman slapping/hitting a man as ok, but it didn't bug me in the least when Ariel slapped Hook.  JoAnna Garcia Swisher has some serious charisma.

 

I like S4 version of August a lot more than S1.

 

When Ursula had tentacled Snow she kept looking up.  I was expecting there to be a chandelier or something that Emmy would drop on her head.

 

I loved the cartooney styling of Rumple's No Trespassing sign.

Edited March 23, 2015 by DeLurker

[kili]

Speaking of telling and not showing...did they basically confirm that Hook traded the Jolly Roger to Blackbeard in exchange for a magic bean during the missing year? If so, [insert your expletive of choice] you writers!

 

Worse, it is a total ret-con. If Hook traded the Jolly for the Bean with Blackbeard, then he would have known that Blackbeard wasn't dead when Zariel came to town. If Blackbeard isn't dead, then just tell Ariel to go shake him down for the whereabouts of Eric.

 

And that's assuming that Blackbeard wouldn't have been true to form and bragged all over about  being saved by Hook's friend. Or been true to form and immediately ransomed Eric anyway. Dude just lost his ship and his crew - like he's not going to play the only trump card he has to get back in the business. Eric's kingdom has money and Blackbeard needs to get a ship and his reputation back. The reason Hook killing Blackbeard was so bad was that it supposedly ruined any chance of finding Eric.

 

I'm okay with Blackbeard living and eventually recpaturing the Jolly - I'm not okay with Hook knowing he is alive and being duped by Zariel.

Edited March 23, 2015 by kili

[YaddaYadda]

Snowing really needs to stop with all their skewed morality bullshit.

 

Snowing need to get off their high horses and drop the holier than thou attitude given whatever it is they have buried in their closet.  I don't know if there's a reason they have them behaving themselves like that.  So Ursula maybe turned Hook because of his legitimate outburst back in Gold's shop?

 

Really, David?  After everything he has done?  Don't project your fears unto your daughter and her boyfriend.  Please.  Actually, just stay away from them.

 

ETA - For the sake of continuity, the dagger was seen when Regina released the dagger, writers.  Belle gave Regina the dagger to do her little ceremony, so no, the last time Hook saw it was like two days ago, not six weeks ago.

Edited March 23, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[stealinghome]

Ursula did not change her behavior. Last episode, she was involved with kidnapping a child (while also trashing Grannies, burning a police car and drinking! whatever). This episode, she participated in the torture of a man (who had recently been re-aged), made a deal to turn on her friends, attempted to kill Hook (he did give her the shell and it was her intent to kill him) and threatened to kill Snow. But, Hook (with an Ariel assist) worked to get her a happy ending anyway. Her Dad had finally learned his lesson too. So, once she got her happy ending, she was happy and may stay that way.... Now, Hook and Poseiden did do wrong things to Ursula which they fixed, but she did not redeem herself. She didn't right any of the wrongs that she did. She did not modify her behavior.

I disagree that she didn't modify her behavior. Not saying she was, like, a shining beacon of morality in this episode, but more than being willing to go on Team Good, what stuck out to me is that Ursula reconciled with her father. She accepted his apology and said she wanted to move on and be better/happy, and made the magnanimous choice ("you took it from me once...I don't want to do the same thing to you"), in a clear reversal of her going dark moment earlier. For all their lip service, that's something I've yet to see Regina and Rumpel truly do. Ursula, to me, had the Hook-in-2x21 (I think 2x21, anyway) moment of realizing that she needs to move on with her life and stop living in the past. Again something Regina and Rumpel haven't ever truly done.

 

This is also where the show loses me with Ursula versus, say, Regina and Rumpel. Ursula did evil things, I'm sure, but she just didn't have the sadism that we see so often in Rumpel and Regina. Regina and Rumpel genuinely look like they're having orgasms when they do evil things, torture innocent people, etc. It's had for me to buy that they're villains because of circumstance as much as personality when they constantly look like they're getting off on doing evil.

 

I had forgotten that Ursula was all "The Author is the only person who can give me what I want!" and Hook was all "Yeah, no." I'm tentatively hoping that that means the Author is going to be all "you dumbasses, you make your own happy endings"...but then I'll still be so annoyed we had to waste a half-season teaching Idiot Regina something that a two-year-old has the basic reasoning skills to figure out.

[pezgirl7]

Regarding Blackbeard: Couldn't Hook have thought that it was too late for Eric to be saved? He probably thought Eric was already dead, especially after the way Eric's cape floated on the water. Saving Eric was a time-sensitive matter, and it could have been months, maybe even a year, since Ariel first started looking for Eric in the EF, so it was probably too late to save him, ergo the angsty Hook. Apparently he didn't stop to have a conversation with Blackbeard about it, when trading his ship. Although yea, you'd think the whole "How are you alive?" would come up at some point during the transaction. Ah well.

 

Regarding happy endings: Ursula just got her happy ending back, but in the minds of some of the characters, she could still have it taken away, just like Regina had hers taken away. Hook could still lose Emma, even if it's at no fault of his own. Although he seems to be more worried about losing her due to him returning to his villainous ways. Stupid, yes, but not completely unrealistic.

Edited March 23, 2015 by pezgirl7

[Zuleikha]

So if the problem is Emma in the land without magic, why don't they just go back to the stupid Enchanted Forest?

Rumple can't. He didn't cast the curse. If we follow the 3A finale logic, only Snow can return Storybrooke to the Enchanted Forest but the cost would be Henry and Emma again. Henry and Emma already made the choice to stay in Storybrooke with their family rather than returning to NYC. None of the other characters appear to want to return (which in my headcanon will always be because after a year of living with ogres and medieval levels of technology again, all of the Storybrooke denizens were all f** this noise, we want indoor plumbing and electricity again).

 

Also, for all the jokes about the many ways to travel between worlds, the show really hasn't done a bad job of closing them down. Mermaids can only bring what they can carry. Regina destroyed the bean field so magic beans are a rare commodity again, and they only open brief portals. Jefferson's hat was destroyed. I don't know the deal with the white rabbit in Wonderland, but the White Rabbit hasn't been seen in Storybrooke since Snowing's return curse. The pegasus feather sail on the Jolly Roger was burnt and Pan's shadow was destroyed. No one knows about Dorothy's silver slippers. Yes, there's always a convenient portal discovered when plot requires it, but it's not like the current characters can saunter between worlds willie nillie.

 

 

 

Because the way to bring magic with him was using Snow and Charming's stupid hair.

The True Love vial only worked because Storybrooke had the Lake Nostos well in it. Without the well, the potion wouldn't have brought magic. Without the curse, the well wouldn't have existed.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Zuleikha

[stealinghome]

If we follow the 3A finale logic, only Snow can return Storybrooke to the Enchanted Forest but the cost would be Henry and Emma again.

I don't think the 3A finale logic applies here, though, because in 3A, they were specifically changing Pan's curse into a different curse, and that's why only Regina could do it. There's no curse happening this time--we're now in a state like 2A/2B, where everyone is just in Storybrooke. There's nothing preventing everyone from just hitching a ride with Ariel and Ursula and going back to the Enchanted Forest one by one. Or they could have Ariel go trade the Jolly Roger for a bean again (since apparently they're not that hard to get on the black market). Emma and/or Regina could go build Jefferson another hat. Etc etc etc. I disagree that the show has done a good job of closing down ways to hop between worlds. Like, yeah, they've made it harder than hopping on a city bus--but not by a whole lot.

Edited March 23, 2015 by stealinghome

[coops]

Speaking of world hopping I'm still waiting to know how Ursula and Cruella got into our world in the first place. Ursula's story looks done and dusted and the question still hasn't been answered yet.

[LizaD]

 

Rumple can't. He didn't cast the curse.

So? He can still go back by hitching a ride with Ariel or Ursula and her dad. Or I'm sure there's a convenient spell tucked away somewhere. And the people are no longer under any curse.

 

 

Mermaids can only bring what they can carry.

Things can be shrunken and brought back to size. And Ursula's tentacles opened the portal and reached all the way over there to bring something back. They didn't even know the Jolly was shrunken so the expectation was Ursula could retrieve that big ship.

 

 

Regina destroyed the bean field so magic beans are a rare commodity again, and they only open brief portals.

But Tiny is still alive and in Storybrooke presumably so they can grow a whole field of beans again.  If he's not there, they can go fetch him. She destroyed the beans, not the soil. Or they can damn well replicate the soil conditions with magic. "Brief" as it may be but apparently it was long enough to get the entire kingdom to go through it as was the plan in S2.

 

 

The True Love vial only worked because Storybrooke had the Lake Nostos well in it. Without the well, the potion wouldn't have brought magic. Without the curse, the well wouldn't have existed.

 

Actually that was never explained. The well only looked like it was dissemanting the magic. All we know about Lake Nostos is that it "brings back what once was" so unless Land without magic once had magic, Lake Nostos would do bupkis. And if Land without magic once had magic in it, then it should've been way easier to get to it and it wouldn't have been LWM. Rump himself said "magic can never be destroyed" it only changes form so yeah.

Edited March 23, 2015 by LizaD

[Dani-Ellie]

But Tiny is still alive and in Storybrooke presumably so they can grow a whole field of beans again.  If he's not there, they can go fetch him. She destroyed the beans, not the soil.

 

He can't cultivate something that doesn't exist. Regina took a couple beans from the field and torched the rest; I'm assuming the destruction went down to the roots. The beans Regina took were used by Greg and Tamara to take Henry to Neverland and then Hook et al to follow them. There are no beans or bean seedlings left in this world.

 

Hook could still lose Emma, even if it's at no fault of his own. Although he seems to be more worried about losing her due to him returning to his villainous ways. Stupid, yes, but not completely unrealistic.

 

This. I didn't feel like Hook was all "But I can't get my happy ending because I'm a villain!" but more that he was all "I'm getting a taste of it now but it could always slip away again."

Edited March 23, 2015 by Dani-Ellie

[Donny Ketchum]

And apparently Emma has great darkness in her heart.  Emma is Riku, apparently.  Any previously.tv users out there who don't know who Riku is, go look him up on the Kingdom Hearts wikia and be confused :)

I know who Riku is!  My brother plays the KH games all the time!

 

It was a pretty good episode, and definitely one I plan to watch again while it's still on my DVR.  Regina's voice coming out of Snow was probably one of my favorite parts, along with all things in the Ursula/Hook backstory, Ariel appearing, and seeing the warden from Oz back on my screen!

 

Also, I was impressed that they cast the role of a powerful god with a man of color rather than the expected white man.

 

I, too, am surprised that one Queen of Darkness had her happy ending restored so quickly, but I'm not complaining.  I'm guessing Cruella's happy ending is coming in the next couple of weeks, and they're spacing out their endings.  Maleficent has always felt like the main one of the trio, so I'm betting they're saving her for last.

 

Still, great episode.  But I'm not looking forward to next week.  I'm fearing that it will wreck Charming and Snow's characters for good. :(

[The Cake is a Pie]

I'm guessing non-sea creatures can't just hitch a ride on a mermaid's tail to travel between realms because they cannot breathe underwater. They would drown. I know they swim fast, but probably not fast enough for a human to just hold his breath. Rumple's supposedly immortal, but death by drowing only to revive later would probably still be pretty painful.

Maybe they need to get cracking on inventing an underwater scuba suit that can be towed by mermaids.

[kili]

I disagree that she didn't modify her behavior. Not saying she was, like, a shining beacon of morality in this episode, but more than being willing to go on Team Good, what stuck out to me is that Ursula reconciled with her father.

 

Yes, but she got what she thought would be her happy ending without having to do a redemptive thing to get it - in fact, she was quite bad. When Hook first told her that he would get back her happy ending, she clearly didn't expect that to mean "reconcile with Dad". She thought it was getting her voice back. She is very upset when the magic doesn't work to get her voice back.. She isn't upset because Hook didn't have Poseiden in his safe. She is shown listening to opera, not gawping at a picture of her dad.

 

Hook getting her Dad to back and her Dad begging for forgiveness were just bonuses. She ups her happiness by accepting his apology and swims off happily into the sunset.

 

I whole heartedly agree that villains would be happier if they would be more forgiving, be content with the good things they already have in their lives and stop with the vengence seeking. In that, Ursula left with her happy ending, forgiving her dad, content with having her voice back (despite all those years without it) and giving up on vengence. Her father too will be happier giving up his vengence.

 

But, Ursula did not get what she thought was her happy ending by being good. She got it because she was willing to be a traitor and selfishly go for her own happy ending at the expense of her friends'. She got it because Hook didn't want revenge for nearly being killed. She got it because Ariel didn't want revenge on Hook for him not helping her and because she is just a great gal.

 

Ursula  got handed a happy ending with two bonuses despite no behavior modification on her part. Regina, Rumple, Cruella and Mal aren't going to learn anything from that. They are just going to be mad because some hero hasn't worked tirelessly to get them everything they ever wanted and more despite trying to kill said hero in the process. There is no lesson for them in Ursula's happy ending because they already think that the universe is unfair for not handing them a happy ending on a silver platter.

[TigerLynx]

If this SL ends with Hook dying to save Emma from being evil, I'm going to hunt down Rumple, Regina, and the rest of the annoying idiots myself.

[iMonrey]

I'm totally confused how Ariel fit into all of this. OK - we know Hook sold or lost (which was it and why?) the Jolly Roger to Blackbeard. And Blackbeard almost killed Anna and Kristoff in Arendell. So - Elsa punished Blackbeard by shrinking the Jolly Roger? How did Ariel get into the spell and what was she doing in Arendell? The last time I remember seeing her, she had been reunited with her prince in Storybrooke.

 

I can kind of see where this is going - the season will probably end with Emma turning all EVIL and then next season she'll be the big-bad. That might actually be an improvement. I'm really tired of the all the episodes focusing on the guest stars while the main characters take a back seat in the story.

[FabulousTater]

This. I didn't feel like Hook was all "But I can't get my happy ending because I'm a villain!" but more that he was all "I'm getting a taste of it now but it could always slip away again."

Yes and no (IMO). Hook thinks that he, in the end, can't keep his "happy ending"(Emma), and therefore can't have his happiness with her because no matter what it will be taken from him because he was a villain. Effectively it's the same as "I can't get my happy ending because I'm a villain because author!" that Rumple, Regina, Cruella, and Mal are yammering on about. (No one point out that if Hook is Emma's happy ending all this falls apart, again. This whole author plot is a house of cards built on a raft on the ocean in the middle of a tsunami!)

 

Hook starts off the conversation with Emma by saying how frighteningly easy it was for him to start slipping back into his old villainous ways, and that slippery slope that he almost fell down on re: Ursula (by pulling the gun on her) was a reminder to him that he was very much a villain. He then goes on to say that therefore, if the author theory is to be believed (as true), then he can’t get a happy ending, that he will at some point lose Emma, no matter what because he’s a villain and according to Regina, who says that according to the author, villains don’t get happy endings, period.

 

That completely flies in the face of the fact that Ursula, a villain, just got her happy ending in this very episode. And so for Hook to suddenly worry that he’ll lose Emma because “villains don’t get happy endings” because the author says so is contrary to what he just flipping learned and was also plainly told by Ariel — that perhaps villains don’t get their happy endings “because villains go about getting them the wrong way.” — and not because the author is controlling their lives.

 

*SMH* The show writers seem to go above and beyond to contradict themselves at every opportunity and expose the idiocy of the whole author plot at every turn.

 

Fanwank: seems the reason Hook doesn't consider Ursula getting her happy ending to run counter to 'villains can't have happy endings' is that he views himself as the villain of Ursula's story. She was the sweet mermaid that he corrupted ergo she wasn't the villain-- he was.

Well, that just makes villainy relative doesn’t it. Every single character has a “villain”in their story. Regina is a villain in Emma’s story (Regina tried to kill infant Emma, caused her to be separated from her family, tried to kill Emma multiple times, almost killed (or effectively did kill) her son, etc.), but according to Regina, Emma is a villain in her (Regina’s) story (‘cause Emma ruined her life, dontcha know). Snowing are supposedly heroes when they beat Regina (and King George) in The Enchanted Forest of yore and got their happily ever after, but wait, according to Regina, Snow is a villain in her story for telling a secret (when she was 10!) and ruining her happiness. Hell, they’ve set it up so that Snowing is the villain in Maleficent’s story now too.

So by this relative villainy logic, everyone is a villain and therefore no one should be getting a happy ending ever. And yet, the villains and Woegina believe the heroes ( Emma, Snowing, and Co.) have their happy endings (which HA! have you looked at the heroes’ lives?!? Their lives suck just as much (if not much more) as everyone else’s, once again exposing the utter stupidity of the all powerful author). But if the villains turn Emma into a villain as well, then the villains can get their happy endings because making her another villain somehow breaks the “villains don’t get happy ending” clause invented by the author. ... W.T.F.

 

Has anyone’s brain exploded yet from taking in all this nonsense? *repeated headdesk* . JFC, I hope we have found the bottom of the Echo Chamber of Lunacy, or at least hope there’s a maximum amount of stupid that this show can produce because there’s only so much viewers can take of this shit.

 

*SMH* This is all so stupid. Thinking about this actually does kill brain cells...

Edited March 23, 2015 by FabulousTater

[Mari]

*SMH* This is all so stupid. Thinking about this actually does kill brain cells...

Is it the thinking about it, or the copious amounts of alcohol that it sounds like our community consumes in order to watch the show? (Or both.  It could be both.)    :)

 

If this were almost any other show, I'd think the constant in-show contradictions were there on purpose, to demonstrate that Regina and company are deluded for searching for the Author or the Sorcerer, expecting a perfect happy ending to appear.

 

Unfortunately, it's TS,TW and they've demonstrated too many times that what is happening on the Once in their reality, is not what is being shown on my television every week.

[YaddaYadda]

How did Ariel get into the spell and what was she doing in Arendell? The last time I remember seeing her, she had been reunited with her prince in Storybrooke.

 

In the episode the Jolly Roger, 317.  Everyone was pulled back to the EF and Eric was kidnapped by Blackbeard.  Ariel found him at Hangman Island which was outside of the curse's reach.  Ariel and Eric have been living there.  I guess she went for a swim and ended up at the wrong place at the wrong time and got bottled with the ship.

[Zuleikha]

So? He can still go back by hitching a ride with Ariel or Ursula and her dad.

Yes, Rumple probably could compel Ariel to take him back, although it's unlikely she would do it willingly. But then what? Rumple's goal isn't to be in the Enchanted Forest; it's to get a happy ending. Corrupting Emma is a means to that end. If he could just as easily work it so that he AND the Author and whomever else he needs for a happy ending to feel happy were in the Enchanted Forest, then Rumple would probably happily do that. But to do that, he would need to both find/rescue the Author and compel enough other people to return to the Enchanted Forest without being thwarted by Emma's Savior magic or Regina or Snowing or any other heroes. I don't see that as simpler than trying to just free the Author/corrupt Emma, especially since I'm sure Rumple prefers to stay in the land of indoor plumbing if he can have his happy ending here.

 

Things can be shrunken and brought back to size.

If people have Wonderland mushrooms, yes. But while there may be a few more unused mushrooms floating around Storybrooke, we've been given no reason to believe there are enough to shrink and restore all of Storybrooke, especially if again, Rumple is having to do this by force to get the Author away from Emma.

 

Tiny also may not be in Storybrooke. He wasn't brought over in the first curse, so there's no reason to assume he was brought over in the second curse. He may be in the Giant's land growing more magic beans and having no idea what's happening beneath him. (I understood the idea to be that the entire field of beans would be used to create enough portals for people to go through, not that a single bean would bring through all of Storybrooke)

 

So personally, I don't think it's a plot hole or contrivance that Rumple would rather solve a problem like the Savior by corrupting her instead of trying to return Storybrooke to the Enchanted Forest. 

[Daisy]

What does TS, TW mean?

and Will has a wife? Is he our new Robin Hood then? Ditching Wifey to be with a current OUAT (in this case Belle... and they dont really fit either)

[stealinghome]

And yet, the villains and Woegina believe the heroes ( Emma, Snowing, and Co.) have their happy endings (which HA! have you looked at the heroes’ lives?!? Their lives suck just as much (if not much more) as everyone else’s

This is one of the things that really, really kills me about this storyline: I truly fail to see how the life of Snow or Charming or Emma or Marco or anyone else in Storybrooke is substantively better than Regina's. I mean, I can believe that Regina thinks their lives are, because that's just how Regina rolls, but among the many many idiocies in this storyline, I don't understand why someone doesn't just stare at Regina and say "um, you HAVE noticed that our lives suck TOO, right?" And really, double props if that person was Marian, because talk about having to force Regina to sit down, shut up, and take her medicine. Charming or Hook, because they haven't been brainwashed like Snow or Emma, would also be acceptable candidates.

 

Yes, but she got what she thought would be her happy ending without having to do a redemptive thing to get it - in fact, she was quite bad. When Hook first told her that he would get back her happy ending, she clearly didn't expect that to mean "reconcile with Dad". She thought it was getting her voice back. She is very upset when the magic doesn't work to get her voice back.. She isn't upset because Hook didn't have Poseiden in his safe. She is shown listening to opera, not gawping at a picture of her dad.

...

But, Ursula did not get what she thought was her happy ending by being good. She got it because she was willing to be a traitor and selfishly go for her own happy ending at the expense of her friends'. She got it because Hook didn't want revenge for nearly being killed. She got it because Ariel didn't want revenge on Hook for him not helping her and because she is just a great gal.

To the second point: but isn't becoming a traitor to Team Evil and working with Team Good ultimately a good thing? I'm not saying that her motives were the purest--nor do I expect them to be at first--but I have a hard time seeing "a villain turns her back on Team Evil doing evil things and eviling up the joint" as a bad thing. Going from bad to good is exactly what a reforming/ed villain should be doing.

 

(And I agree that she got it because Hook decided to be a hero--but this is also the villain circle, because Hook was a villain to Ursula to begin with and he's chasing grace, too. Breaking the cycle in his own way.)

 

For the first, I don't totally disagree, but I also think one of the lessons we were supposed to take away from last night (or, well, I hope we were supposed to take away) is that Ursula getting her voice back was a "fake" happy ending, in that it wouldn't actually have brought Ursula peace and happiness. She would've ended up back on the villain track if that is where he happy ending had stopped. Her real happy ending was reconciling with her dad. One of the things I've been toying with recently, hoping that the Author plot is going to take the least dumb of the plot paths available (because lbr, there's no Not Dumb path at this point, there's just Dumber and Less Dumb), is the fact that the villains seem to fundamentally misrecognize what their happy endings are. It's like Regina in Storybrooke 1.0--she thought the curse was going to be her happy ending, and literally within 3 days she was miserable again. I would bet my house that if Robin Hood strolled back into Storybrooke and he and Regina could be together, in 3 days Regina would find something else to angst about and decide that she ABSOLUTELY NEEDED to get a happy ending and COULD NEVER BE HAPPY AGAIN without. So Ursula also had to recognize that her voice wasn't her happy ending, or at least not all of it, and decide to break the cycle with her father, and that is when the true happy ending kicked in. That's the redemptive thing she did--forgiving her father and breaking the cycle. With the strong implication that she will be better going forward. So, I mean, yeah, she was put in a position to get redemption through none of her own doing--but frankly, I don't see how that's any different from any of the villains on this show, either. All of them, Hook and Regina included, have only had the opportunity for redemption because it's been offered to them on a silver platter by the heroes when the heroes would have been well within their rights to stick a sword in the villains' stomachs and been done with them.

 

Also, frankly, I would say that Hook hasn't righted 99% of the wrongs he's done, either. I mean, I have a hard time remembering Hook apologizing to the many, many people he pirated from over the years...or offering a real apology to Belle for that time he punched her, or shot her (though granted, he puts me to sleep, so maybe I missed a sincere apology that wasn't strong-armed by Emma or Belle herself, but I don't think I did)...or giving back the stuff we saw him stealing in 3x17. But he's considered the poster child for redemption. So I would say if being better going forward is enough for Hook, it ought to be enough for Ursula too.

[Curio]

What does TS, TW mean?

 

It's an acronym for "This Show, These Writers," which is a phrase many of us on here have had to use repeatedly enough that we felt the need to shorten it. It's basically saying, "Only on this ridiculous show could any of this shit happen."

[OnceUponSomeChaos]

This was my favorite episode since the 3b finale. Did it have some continuity and some plot holes? Yes. But less so than some episodes. Did it have character development and move the story forward in an awesome way? YES.

Disclaimer: I totally love Captain Swan and happily admit my view of the episode shows as much.

I've read most of the posts so here are some issues pointed out that I think can be addressed.

--I don't think it is proven that Hook sold his ship to Blackbeard: Hook could have easily learned Blackbeard was aboard the Jolly Roger at some point in the last six weeks from Emma, who would know because of Anna and Elsa and the fact that Blackbeard tried to kill Anna and Kristoff. I cannot see Blackbeard giving Hook a bean in trade for the Jolly Roger after Hook tried to kill him. I mean, at that point, Hook no longer had any of his crew to back him up. Blackbeard would have just taken the ship and killed Hook. #headcanon

--I think those who mentioned that Hook's worry about losing his happy ending stems from three things: 1) Hook was one of the villains in this story, and 2) he felt very guilty for being one because this is the guy who is all "Good Form" and he broke his sworn oath to Ursula he wouldn't take her voice, then he did. 3) To me, Hook would view this as the WORST thing someone could ever do. Sure he can trade villain sides like crazy but he never swears allegiance to them, much less to someone quite innocent who gave him his first moment of peace in over a century. So I feel Hook views his history with Ursula as the most villainous act he's done. Returning the happy ending that he personally helped steal (not the author) isn't in the same ballpark as all other villains. Plus, he's feeling the dark villain part of him again and feels like he hasn't changed, that he doesn't deserve Emma, and then there is his past history on what happens to those he cares about (they all die). I don't think he believes the book dictates his happy ending, so much as using it as a way to vocalize how he is afraid he's going to lose her, and she is everything. (swoon)

--Yes Elsa was obviously careless about trapping Ariel (hand waves logistics, the mushroom juice not affecting the bottle.. etc.. we all know those problems), but I can find a reason for Ariel to be there. I think she heard how Blackbeard was terrorizing Arandelle and felt guilty b/c she was the one who saved him to find Eric. So given how Ariel is, she'd go to help out and put Blackbeard in his place. Her timing was just conveniently inconvenient, much like the wishing star/stone was to save Anna and Kristoff just before they drowned. As it so often is on TV shows aka the "nick of time" trope.. "wrong place, wrong time" in Ariel's case. I can't really blame a show about fairy tales for using it.

More to add later, but all-in-all, I thought it was strong.

Though I would have killed to have Smee ask Poseidon.. "Are you a God?"

Edited March 24, 2015 by OnceUponSomeChaos

[Daisy]

It's an acronym for "This Show, These Writers," which is a phrase many of us on here have had to use repeatedly enough that we felt the need to shorten it. It's basically saying, "Only on this ridiculous show could any of this shit happen."

 

 

oh thank you. 

yah, i can see me using that v. often. LOL and it's very appro. 

[KAOS Agent]

With regards to the "no easy portals" rule. There is a freaking door in the mansion that you can walk through to get to Arendelle. It's that simple. Ingrid used it to get to this world before the curse was even cast. If you can move through a door, you're gold. So I think we can all stop with the talk that portals are hard to come by/use because they really, really aren't.

 

As to this episode, we really hit the jackpot on our theme words. "Happy Endings" was used 9 times (yes, 9 times Mrs Bueller), "villains" was mentioned 7 times  though "heroes" only got one measly mention. Villains are now winning the battle against the heroes 19-18 while happy endings is taking it home with 22 uses in 4B.

Edited March 23, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[kili]

This. I didn't feel like Hook was all "But I can't get my happy ending because I'm a villain!" but more that he was all "I'm getting a taste of it now but it could always slip away again."

 

If it wasn't TS,TW, Hook's fear of losing his Happy Ending would be him recognizing that "Happy Endings" aren't the end. Sure, he has Emma now, but they lead dangerous lives. Either he or Emma could die an early death. They could grow to hate each other. They could have a child of theirs die. They could be infested by fleas.

 

Regina, Rumple, Mal and Cruella talk about their happy endings, but they are really not the end and do they truly know what will make them happy. Rumple has had his happy ending - he found Bae. Was he happy? Nope. He wanted more and his relationship with his son wasn't the best. Regina whined for a year that she just needed Henry in her life and he was enough for a day. She whined that she needed to cast a curse, but that was enough for three days and then the curse even got ruined by Emma.

 

Happy Endings aren't necessarily what you think they are nor are the going to last. The villains have to recognize that happiness about any one element in your life is transitory and you need to learn to be happy about the good things you do have. The happy endings the heros get don't last either.

 

Hook and Emma may not die of old age, side-by-side with a loving family around them, but that is okay. They can enjoy and appreciate the moments they have now. There are few true Happy Endings, but there are happy times.

[Helena Dax]

 

I have no evidence of this but I got a bad feeling when Emma and August reunited.  The way the scene was framed it looked like a reunion between exes and Snow watching with her Team Neal look wasn't helping.  I don't think the show will move away from Emma/Hook, in that there's nothing to indicate that August is anything more than a guest star, but what's so great about the Emma/Hook relationship is that they aren't being made to jump through crazy relationship hoops.  Their big obstacle has always been Emma's walls and the pace in which she's been letting them down has been well managed.  I'd like to keep it this way.

 

Yeah, I got a bad feeling too. Back in the day I  thought August and  Emma were going to become a couple and I didn't like that idea. I wouldn't like that idea now, either. Don't go that way, show.

 

I liked the episode. And since Ursula got her happy  ending thanks to Hook and herself, I find it difficult to believe  that the writers are working with the idea that Rumple, Regina and the  others are right about the author. Didn't Ariel say  something about that too? Or it was August? I don't know, this plot is weird. Otoh, I must confess I'm  curious about  the author's identity. I've always wanted to know who wrote that book.

 

I laughed when Bella broke her pirate oath so easily. 

[RadioGirl27]

I've finally been able to watch the episode and I have liked it a lot. Yeah, it has some problems, and the Author plot is still stupid. But the flashback was good, the Jolly Roger is back and the moment with Hook and Emma at the cabin was really sweet.

[KAOS Agent]

Can we just focus on the positive here for a minute? Hook's messy pirate hair was back! I've missed it so. When they ripped that bag off his head and we got Hook in all his messy haired glory, I cheered. 

[ParadoxLost]

I will laugh my ass off if in, like, 4x18 and 4x20 Cruella and Maleficent get their happy endings similar to how Ursula did in this episode, and Regina and Rumpel are left scratching their heads and staring at each other and being like "Gee, what is the common denominator between those three and not us? It can't be that they changed their behavior...can it???"

 

But that isn't the moral of the story to learn.  Ursala got her happy ending because Hook decided to give it to her because he decided to right his wrongs.  Ursala didn't have to change her ways or do anything to earn her happy ending.  We are thisclose from Snow and Charming deciding to right whatever terrible thing they did to take Mal's child from her.  So, Mal is definitely on her way to get her happy ending without changing because the heroes decide to give her the happy ending they robbed her of.  I'm sensing a theme here and I'm sure they'll come up with a way to do something similar with Cruella. 

 

In the end, the lesson for Regina and Rumpel is that the heroes stole their happy endings and if they aren't happy its the heroes' fault.  Marian will just have to drop dead.  Maybe Emma will have to kill her to atone.  Belle will have four lessons on how the villains suffer and do terrible things because the heroes aren't good or kind or forgiving enough and that wrong must be corrected to save them.  Belle will respond by forgiving Rumpel because its her fault he couldn't love her enough to change.  If she was just better...

[SilverShadow]

But that isn't the moral of the story to learn.  Ursala got her happy ending because Hook decided to give it to her because he decided to right his wrongs.  Ursala didn't have to change her ways or do anything to earn her happy ending. 

 

She had to take a chance on Hook's deal, trusting him after he once wronged her, for the chain of events that led to the spell being broken to happen and she reconciled with her father. That's a change in her behavior. And when Hook kept his end of the bargain she kept hers.

[Dani-Ellie]

That's a change in her behavior. And when Hook kept his end of the bargain she kept hers.

 

This. It has to start somewhere. The cycle has to be broken somewhere. If the villains don't believe there's a chance things can get better, why bother trying to be good? Why not just stay evil? I do believe that there is a lesson for the others to learn with Ursula's story, and that it's if you open yourself up to the possibility, things can go your way. Instead of trying to force her happy ending (i.e. "going about getting it in the wrong way"), she trusted the person who took it from her to give it back. And it worked!

 

We don't know what she did as Villainess of the Seven Seas, but who's to say that she's not going to go home and start seeking out the people she hurt to right her wrongs?