S01.E11: S01.E11: Die But Once / S01.E12: Who I Am

[Gigi43]

I think I need to rewatch, because some of it was too fast.

 

Lucious going to jail would be a lot more satisfying if there was any chance at all he'd stay there. God, I'm so disappointed he isn't terminal anymore. I'm restraining from going too much more into MG... but I did feel like they down played it just because it's not as bad as ALS. It can still kill you. It should (if they do it right) still give Lucious days where he can't function and it makes especially a guy like him angry. If they suddenly drop it next season I'll be very upset. ...Though I've said many times someone pretty famous will need to get MG or know someone born with CMG before the public cares about it... and I've always felt slightly bad about it as if it's wishing it on someone... but a terrible person like Lucious on this hugely successful show fixes that.

 

I figured Jamal was going to let the power get to him quickly.

 

Hakeem and Anika? I'm down with anything that pisses off Lucious.

 

I really HATE that Rhonda's pregnant. Isn't that something you do when the show is getting old? The Lola story was almost pointless (except for Hakeem/Jamal/Lola cute scenes) and pretty rushed... now I fear this baby will draaaag the show down.

[kpw801]

Dwight Walker. Get your walk on 

Yeah but where do you go to enter the name?

[peridot]

I hated that the finale was 2 hours, too much happened in these episodes!

 

I laughed hard when Lucius gave Cookie her pillow.  I hate that Jamal just can't let his ties to Lucius go, those flashbacks to him getting thrown in the trash was too much.

 

I hate that Vernon was the one killed, though I'm glad it wasn't Cookie.  Too bad she couldn't get a happy ending with Malcolm.

[Mya Stone]

One last thing from me.

Black Rambo is quite possibly the worst MC name ever. It definitely rivals Vanilla Ice.

[CaughtOnTape]

"What kinda black girl is named Becky?"

"My mom's white."

 

I was crying laughing.

[wanderingstar]

OMG - the guy who plays the Ghetto Ass Studio owner is on the local FOX station in Chicago! I am such a dork!

[MizStaken]

Pretty awesome ending as I was wondering how they would tie this season up.

Wow, who would have thunk that Vernon would turn on Lucious? If Andre had just shut up and listened, there would have been no predictament. Rhonda, Kudos for freeing up Lucious for next season.

Was surprised by Jamal. Didn't think he had it in him. Sad thing is, I think he probably can run this company.

And it's Andre's baby. I don't think we have seen Rhonda cheating on Andre, him on the other hand ....

[Artsda]

Malcolm and Cookie's relationship was really blink and miss it. He ran out of town on his new job like 48 hours after they got together. Cookie was better off not even hooking up with him. 

[Brooklynista]

I lov d the shout out to "Whoop that trick" in the duet w Lucious and Jamal.

[maraleia]

OMG - the guy who plays the Ghetto Ass Studio owner is on the local FOX station in Chicago! I am such a dork!

How much do you love that this show is shot where we live?

[CherryMalotte]

Damn, that was fantastic!

 

 Lucious Lyon aka Dwight Walker?  OK!

 

I wish he'd said his name was Randall Flagg - because you know that Lucious is gonna go full out Stephen King on everybody's ass next season.

 

When the hell did Andre and Rhonda have time to make that baby?

 

Best Catfight Ever.  Man, I hope they put that on the For Your Consideration disc to the Emmys.

 

I must reflect before I can comment further.

[tennisgurl]

I`ll miss these forums almost as much as I`ll miss this show. I have honestly learned so much and had such great discussion about race, class, sexuality, sociology, its been an amazing ride so far! Glad I have gotten to take it with all you lovely people! 

[CofCinci]

I really HATE that Rhonda's pregnant. Isn't that something you do when the show is getting old? The Lola story was almost pointless (except for Hakeem/Jamal/Lola cute scenes) and pretty rushed... now I fear this baby will draaaag the show down.

You know how some shows do (for the lack of better phrase) a "surprise, the baby is black!" reveal? She will deliver a white baby.

[ParadoxLost]

I think I'll need to rewatch in two separate sittings.  I'm on overload.  I think two episodes back to back is too much happening at once.  I wish they'd split it over two weeks.

 

I found the first hour kind of trippy.  Between the three different timelines going with the flashbacks and Lucious teleporting from one WTF scene to another faster than Jack Bauer, I was half convinced that this was all some drug induced hallucination of Lucious's.  I felt like they hadn't quite earned the progression of relationships.  As much batshit stuff that happens on this show, I've never really felt this way before.

Edited March 19, 2015 by ParadoxLost

[GreekGeek]

Giving Lucious a less serious disease felt like a cop out, to keep him alive and mobile longer now that the show hit it big. Didn't Aristotle Onassis die of MG? Cookie holding the pillow over him was a pretty lame (and short) cliffhanger. I knew she wasn't going to kill him.

 

I liked those flashbacks of the terrible things he did to each son.

 

I feel smug about calling Hakeem/Anika.

 

I'm also wondering where Vernon's body is, and who will be blamed for his death if it's found. Maybe Lucious will be acquitted for the death of Bunkie only to be convicted of the murder of Vernon.

 

That has to be the weirdest way a wife ever told a husband she was pregnant! I doubt the baby will drag the show down. I'm glad Rhonda came back; I love her and Andre together.

 

So Jamal and the filmmaker are an item again, now that Lola's no longer living with him? I like seeing the darker side of Jamal, as when he dangled Beretti over the balcony (though once again I was sure he wouldn't drop him). And keeping Hakeem's album from being released so that it wouldn't steal the thunder from his own was a nice little petty power play.

 

Andre's religious phase didn't last long! I was really hoping the music therapist would get him singing, instead of just listening to her. I hate that Lucious put him down for not being a musician yet again.

[wanderingstar]

How much do you love that this show is shot where we live?

 

 

So very much and I've totally considered stalking the production!

 

I keep forgetting to say how much I love that Mario van Peebles & Debbie Allen directed episode 1 and 2, respectively.

[Actionmage]

I loved every soapy second!  Almost a half hour and I still can't form sentences, really.

 

I will have to take notes because it was like hurry-up-and-wait-traffic: you finally move a couple of feet then have to wait for a while before you can move again. Notes will be good for when we get back.

 

Bye, Uncle Vernon.

[Neurochick]

Why did Cookie attack Anika? Because of Hakeem? Because it made no sense if they were fighting over Lucious.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Neurochick

[EyesGlazed]

So other than Luciferous, it appears anyone over 50 on this show is a redshirt.   R.I.P. Vernon and Bunky.

 

Luciferous glowering behind bars was a good way to end this season.  

 

But what I don't get:  was the scene where Luciferous was giving presents to his sons and Cookie just a dream sequence?  As Jamal took over as VP right after that, it seemed that somehow everyone knew that he was chosen.  So was it because of the present he got, or was it done at some other meeting we don't see?

 

Rhonda once again does the dirty work for Andre.  Geez Rhonda, is it really worth it?

 

Where is Malcolm?

[CofCinci]

I loved every soapy second! Almost a half hour and I still can't form sentences, really.

[Whitley Trillbert]

Yeah but where do you go to enter the name?

#BeonEmpire on Twitter 

[Gigi43]

I've been meaning to ask for a few weeks now but kept forgetting too.... Where is Lucious suppose to be living? Westchester? Long Island? Somewhere in NJ or even CT?

[Syndicate]

Pretty awesome ending as I was wondering how they would tie this season up.

Wow, who would have thunk that Vernon would turn on Lucious? If Andre had just shut up and listened, there would have been no predictament. Rhonda, Kudos for freeing up Lucious for next season.

Was surprised by Jamal. Didn't think he had it in him. Sad thing is, I think he probably can run this company.

And it's Andre's baby. I don't think we have seen Rhonda cheating on Andre, him on the other hand ....

This show has been so disjointed that they can say any off screen dude has been hanging around Rhonda to knock her up.  Very bad pacing!  Oh, and I still want to know what she and Andre did with Vernon's body.

[aprilbabe]

I don't know how to take that Lucious was misdiagnosed with ALS.  Is it a change due to the runaway success of this series?  Or was it planned all along?

Just read an interview with Danny strong he said it was planned from the get go and someone he knows was misdiagnosed with ALS.

 

Two hours is too much. That was a lot.

I loved that in the end Cookie didn't snitch that stayed true to her character. It was Vernon that snitced  and since Vernon's dead you now she how he will get off. And Cookie moved right into Lucious home. lol

 

Jamal is just like his father and I love the scene with them making the song and the call back to Hustle and Flow.

[Malbec]

Andre's religious phase didn't last long! I was really hoping the music therapist would get him singing, instead of just listening to her. I hate that Lucious put him down for not being a musician yet again.

 

Yes.  On the one hand, I was sort of glad that Andre's problems didn't resolve in a "Jesus instantly fixed everything" way, which is where it looked like it was going at first.  But then they undid his awakening so fast it might as well not have happened at all.  Lucious was straight-up cruel poaching Michelle just to keep Andre in line. 

 

I maintain the best thing Andre could do for himself is pack up, move the hell across the country, and block his dad's number.  Although of course, I'm glad he hasn't, because Trai Byers does not need to leave my television screen anytime soon.

[SimoneS]

I thought the show did a great job showing the shifting alliances. All Lucious' enemies lining up against him even as they conspire separately to take him down. Only the bad luck of Rhonda killing Vernon, ends up saving Lucious.

 

Lucious rushing to save Jamal and Hakeem from Beretti, only to find Jamal dangling Beretti over the balcony. Lucious was shocked and impressed by Jamal's ruthlessness and fearlessness all at once. In that moment, Lucious comes to the realization that Jamal is a man, a dangerous man, just like him. All the violence, he inflicted upon Jamal as a child created a man in Lucious' image. I said it before, in a couple years, Jamal will be Lucious.

 

Next season will be even crazier. Jamal is not giving up Empire without a fight. I just hope that he remembers not to trust his father. 

 

Was Cookie living in Lucious' mansion? Because that is hilarious. It also shows that no matter how angry he is with his mother, Jamal will never abandon her.

Edited March 19, 2015 by SimoneS

[Neurochick]

Question. Why is this show set in NYC if they film in Chicago? Why not set it in Chicago or film in NYC?

[missbonnie]

"Game time b!tches."

That was one hell of a finale. Wow.

THIS! Now comes the endless wait for this great show to come back.

[ridethemaverick]

Well that was a lot.

I didnt really care for the gospel song interspersed with sex/after sex scenes. I guess that's my strict Baptist upbringing talking LOL.

I did love that Michelle was quick to join the secular world. Rang very true to me and I also love how disillusioned Andre was by it. That's what happens when you build people up, Andre (see also: your daddy).

They could have killed Rhonda and kept Vernon. I will miss Malik Yoba and Rhonda adds very little to this show for me. Boo to some timesucking baby that isn't Lola.

Speaking of Vernon...how do you straight whoop somebody's ass and then say "I didn't come here to fight"?

Malcolm, baby please don't go!

That fight was EVERYTHING. My life was gotten. I'm also eagerly anticipating the Cookie/BBK alliance with lots of shade and begrudging respect.

Overall, I give it a B+. Everything happened so fast and the flashbacks made my head spin. I kept thinking " dis tew much."

Can't wait for next season!

[Whitley Trillbert]

Who In The Hell Left The Gate Open to think that Jamal going to a hardcore rap battle and singing in his magical falsetto was a  good idea cause in reality he would have got ridiculed off that stage. 

 

I hate HAAAAAATE that they reduced Anika to sleeping with the father and then the son. 

 

Sooooooooo Andre doesn't have Bi-Polar disorder anymore.

[nilyank]

 

And it's Andre's baby. I don't think we have seen Rhonda cheating on Andre, him on the other hand ....

 

I wonder if Rhonda was already pregnant when she threw up when she saw the old man that Andre asked her to sleep with.

 

When Lucious said his real name, I thought I heard White Walker not Dwight Walker. However, I am going to now believe that Lucious is a crazy blue eyed bastard that goes around bringing the dead back to life. 

[sereion]

Man....I'm speechless; I don't to where to began other than the finale was epic. I'll come back once get my thoughts together.

[Kendall]

I almost forgot the other greatest moment of the show: Porsha calling Lucious, "LuLu!"

 

If he had known that he was still going to live at that moment, I think he would've tried to kill her.

[ParadoxLost]

I found that Jamal started bugging me as he fell into line once Lucious chose him as successor.  The last thing I really liked with him during the episodes was Lucious and Jamal creating a song together. 

 

I found the way he got Lucious's masters back completely ridiculous; very reminiscent of the old rumor that Suge Knight dangled Vanllla Ice over a balcony.

 

Then there was the part where I said 'Its 8 mile.' and  I'm sitting there thinking, prejudice or not, this is a rap battle and Jamal you are competing in the wrong genre of music.  You lose.  Why is the MC on the verge of tears? No one has insulted you with Leave it to Beaver yet.

Edited March 19, 2015 by ParadoxLost

[ridethemaverick]

Who In The Hell Left The Gate Open to think that Jamal going to a hardcore rap battle and singing in his magical falsetto was a good idea cause in reality he would have got ridiculed off that stage.

I hate HAAAAAATE that they reduced Anika to sleeping with the father and then the son.

Sooooooooo Andre doesn't have Bi-Polar disorder anymore.

Thank yoi for reminding me of how bad that battle was. Black Rambo was ridiculously bad and Jamal singing in a rap battle was just...NO.

[maraleia]

Question. Why is this show set in NYC if they film in Chicago? Why not set it in Chicago or film in NYC?

Tax breaks. Not sure why they didn't set the show in Chicago other than the fact that we aren't known as a mecca for hip hop/rap companies.

[FuriousStyles]

The season finale should have been cut to one hour.  A lot of this stuff could have been left out or at least tabled until next season.  Too many things happened, and all this backstabbing is making my head hurt.

 

What the hell did Andre and Rhonda do with Vernon's body.  This show makes me crazy with the way they edit scenes or just don't show certain things.  Something so important as disposing of the body, and you don't even mention it.  Is he really dead?

 

Best of the show was the fight between Cookie and Anika and the song Jamal did with Patti Labelle at the end.

 

Jamal dangling that man (who's name I can never remember) over the balcony came out of nowhere for me.  All I kept saying was Jamal aint about that life!  WTF is he doing?  I could see Andre or even Hakeem doing something like that.

 

Did not care at all for Anika having sex with Hakeem.  At least it was already established that the boy has mommy issues so....

 

The number 1 thing that surprised me was that not only does Lucious not have ALS, but that he didn't keep it a secret.  I thought for sure he was going to keep that bit of news to himself at least for a little while.  

 

All in all it was a great show, but they have to clean up some of these storylines.  I love soap operas as much as the next person but they've got to pace themselves.

 

 

[Jipijapa]

The plotting has gotten a bit nonsensical during the last 3 or 4 episodes.  I have faith that the writers will take a breather during the hiatus and just slow... the eff.... DOWN.  I mean, it's getting to the point where you can't walk out of the room to take a pee break and you come back to find out that Cookie and/or Lucious is on the outs with one of the kids allofasudden, or there's been some other random hookup out of left field.   It is... dare I say... just getting a wee bit silly.

 

Delicious characters, great situations, and the writers spend all of 5 minutes exploring each one.  This has to stop next season.  Don't lose the fast-paced outrageous soap qualities, sure, but this isn't writing - it's just throwing the characters into a blender. 

[thuganomics85]

Damn, I actually think two hours of pure Empire might have overloaded by brain.  There really was a time where I just sat their and I felt like it was rebooting, after the umpteenth twist.  I think it was the time it suddenly dawned on me that I was watching an alliance forming between Cookie, Hakeem, Andre, and Anika, against the powerhouse duo of Lucious and.... Jamal.  I never, never, ever thought I would type that sentence.  Ever.

 

But, lets attempt to process this, shall we?!  So, for now, Jamal wins the Game of Empire.  After helping Lucious get his groove back (musical groove!  Don't hurt me, Lucious!) and showing he can get crazy with the best of them, Lucious was like "That's my boy!  I don't care if you are gay!  You dangled Baretti off a balcony like a boss!", and actually gave him a fucking scepter.  As an added bonus, he even showed him Cookie attempting to kill Lucious (more on that later!), in order to turn on her.  Now, that's going all out.  I will say though that their song was great.  Terrence Howard and Jussie Smollett were just so intense in that scene.

 

So, yeah, lets get back to Cookie finding out about Bunky's death.  Can't trust those drugs, Lucious!  Not surprised she was able to pull off the smothering, but I have to think this is far from over.  Between that and Lucious thinking she was the one who turned him in, I have to think this is going to be a huge battle.

 

But it was Vernon!  It was him all along!  But, oh wait!  He's fucking dead!  Bwah!  That was so random.  Getting into a fist fight with Andre, and Rhonda coming in to save the day.  So, now, Lucious might not even be in jail for long.  If so, I would find it hilarious if that "white woman", he hated so much, ends up being his ticket out of the joint.  The pregnancy thing came out of nowhere.  Lets see if it's even Andres.  It's probably Lucious' somehow!  Don't ask how!  It just is!

 

Hakeem and Anika?!  Ha!  That's just so... perfect.  Oh, Empire!

 

I was disappointed in Andre's storyline.  Basically, he thought he was finding the "light", but Jennifer Hudson taking Lucious' offer, just made him give up, since she felt like she was selling her soul to the devil.  I would care more, but if feels I only just met her character.  Not much time to get invested in that.

 

The show was smart enough to get Snoop, and basically have him play the only character he can play.  Which, obviously, is Snoop.

 

On a more negative note, the "rap battle" was just bad and not in a funny way.  Probably my least favorite scene of the season.  Probably because that Rambo guy was so lame.  I think any homophobia is bad, but if you have to pull that hateful card, at least be original about it. I felt like I was listening to a 10-12 year-old, who just discovered the concept of homosexuality.  Dude, come on.

 

Interesting that while there was a good amount of Cookie and Taraji P. Henson was great as always, I did think these episodes really did go back to being centered around Lucious.  Almost everything that happened came back to him on some level.  Didn't mind though.  He really is one of the most fascinating unlikable characters out there.  It's been said before, but, honestly?  Andre's comparison to "The Devil", really is perfect.  Dude is close to pure evil at times.  And, now he doesn't even have ALS.  So, they're going to have to find another way to take him down.

 

Wednesdays just aren't going to be as fun anymore.  Whatever flaws this show has (and, boy, it has them), I honestly just find this show so damn entertaining.  It's crazy.  I hope they tighten up on the things that aren't working, but, overall, keep doing what you are doing, guys.  I never would have predicted the duo of Lee Daniels and Danny Strong, would create one of the craziest and most addicting shows of the year.

Edited March 19, 2015 by thuganomics85

[Gigi43]

Giving Lucious a less serious disease felt like a cop out, to keep him alive and mobile longer now that the show hit it big. Didn't Aristotle Onassis die of MG? Cookie holding the pillow over him was a pretty lame (and short) cliffhanger. I knew she wasn't going to kill him.

Yeah he did. He went into respiratory failure which MG (and CMG) can severely weaken your respiratory system (among other things like your gastrointestinal tract/system.) I agree it felt like a cop out but I'll forgive it if Lucious' God complex is taken down notches by way of the show acknowledging how serious and day-day life impacting it is.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Gigi43

[Dusty]

I knew that Vernon was a dead man as soon as I saw that candlestick in her hands.  There is nothing more deadly in tvland than a damn candlestick as a weapon.  It will 100% kill a character every time.  Knife? Just a scratch.  Bullets? Pssh.  Missiles. Totally survivable.  Candlestick?  RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!

 

Nothing brings a couple back together like murder and a baby...

 

RIP Vernon.  But seriously.  I've never beat the shit out of someone before but I feel like if I was continually punching someone in the face I wouldn't be able to calmly say their name in a 'let's just talk about this' tone at the same time.

 

Is it me or did Jennifer Hudson's performance seem really flat?  I spent the whole time trying to figure out if that was an acting decision or just her.

 

I so want to believe in the moment between Jamal and...Lucious in the dressing room.  I really, really did.  But the problem with that scene was Lucious' mouth was moving.  So obviously it was all lies coming out.  And I swear to god that if Jamal turns on Cookie in favor of Lucious I don't really care what he does in the future.  There will be no redeeming him.  I will root for EVERYONE that's not in the interest of him.  I don't care if it's Baretti or Annika.  Like holy crap!  I like Hakeem more than him right now.  What the hell just happened?  How in the hell did everything get so turned around?  I'm mad at Jamal?  I'm okay with Hakeem?  Actually, now that I've listed how everything has flipped for me since the show started, I probably won't feel the same later if he does.  I can't really imagine it.  But I never for one second imagined liking Hakeem. So...there is that.  Although if Jamal does side with Lucious instead of Cookie I think that's a bigger betrayal then Hakeem having Mommy issues.  You cannot have flashback memories of your mother being there for you always and then juxtapose that with Lucious literally throwing him in the trash and say "Yeah, I'm in Lucious' corner." NO!  JUST NO!

 

I haven't really minded the pace of this season. It was refreshing that nothing really stayed a secret for long.  I hate it when shows do that but I really do think next season they're going to have to slow it down a notch.  And actually finish a scene or two before jumping into the next moment.

[Auntie Anxiety]

 

Rhonda's pregnant?  By whom?

At some point, it will probably be revealed that Lucious is the father, just like Lola, because, why not?  This is one crazy ass show.

 

Every week I feel like I'm channeling Bill Murray's character in Tootsie (great comedy for all of you who weren't born yet), when Dorothy MIchaels pulls off the wig to expose that "she" is really Dorothy's brother who has come for revenge.  It's a huge moment in the soap opera within the movie and BM, who is watching from his couch, says "That is one. crazy. hospital."  That's how I feel week after week.  

[memememe76]

That was a lot of fun. 

 

With Vernon not in the scene (I think it's a real shame--my favourite scene of the night was the one between Cookie and Vernon), I would love to see a storyline where Anika, Cookie and Rhonda (all with different motives) team up and find real evidence to prove that Luscious killed Bunkie. 

[wanderingstar]

And Cookie moved right into Lucious home. lol

 

 

I loved the hell outta that. Seemed just to me.

 

Lucious was straight-up cruel poaching Michelle just to keep Andre in line.

 

 

I know! His face looked so very punchable in that scene!

 

Next season will be even crazier. Jamal is not giving up Empire without a fight. I just hope that he remembers not to trust his father.

 

 

I fear for Jamal in many ways. I think he'll be blinded by his dad's "I love you, son" for a good long while, and that might make him forget that, as he told Cookie, Lucious cares about himself first and foremost.

[DearEvette]

1 - Y'all are on fire on this thread.  About as much fun to read the reactions as it was to watch the show

 

2 - Too much to process for me right now, but I must say they brought it!  The last episode especially was really well done.  Lucious is one hell of a manipulator.  And I love the figurative chess game everyone is playing.

 

3- Cookie and Anika's fight was fantastically choreographed.  Anika got in her punches.  But Cookie FTW!  I am sorry but when she broke the pearls and then lifted and flipped Anika onto the pool table and choked the mess out of her, I was done and so was Anika!

 

4 - Jamal's sing-fight with the rapper with the terrible name that we've never seen before was pretty damned good.  I loved the falsetto 'Bitch!' at the end and of course the double entendre about 'get on your knees.'  At first I was like, 'No he is not crooning at a rap battle!'  but then he brung it.

 

5- Oh J.Hud-character you dropped the Lord real quick didn't ya!  LOL.

 

6- 'My Mother is White' - best line of Becky's all season,.

 

I have more thoughts... (I don't even want to think about Anika & Hakeem right now) .. but I need to process.

 

But this was fab, epic ending.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

This felt more like a series finale, they tossed in everything And the Kitchen sink.

[Dee]

In a two-hour season finale, where everything possible was thrown against the wall, Ta'Rhonda Jones and Gabourey Sidibe were certified scene stealers.

[Auntie Anxiety]

Tricky's grandson was hilariously awful.

[memememe76]

Jones and Sidibe were so great. I like how loyal they are to their bosses. With Vernon gone (a big loss, something that I don't think the writers will be able to replace so easily), Becky and Porsha seem to be the next in line behind the Lyon Family. 

[photo fox]

My mind is so blown right now. It started out a little slow - Malcolm sure went from zero to love in a hurry, and Michelle's presence managed to suck the awesome out of Andre - but holy crap.

Must. watch. again.