Season 10 Chat

[iwasish]

I guess 9 seasons of pictures of Bruce on KUWTK isn't enough.

I know a couple people in some stage of outing their gender issues, one a niece, one a 15 year old, and I feel for them and I understand the family feelings.

But I agree with those who said this show cheapened it. It seemed to me like a way for KUWTK to jump on the hot topic bandwagon... Milk Bruce's ordeal for their ratings. The Diane Sawyer interview at least seemed real. This seemed like their typical Brady storyline-- Khloe in the bitch role this week, Kim in the strong role, Kris as martyr, Kourt as pragmatist, etc. While Bruce just sits on looking hurt and tolerant. And the girls scratch at their re-enacted tears with their fake nail tips.

I really can't take it as seriously as it should be when Khloe shows up with gifts of shoes (she never heard of 13 "m"

I guess she only buys European sized shoes? ) and wearing some whacked out faux (I hope!) fur vest and Billy Jack's hat, in full glam makeup and hair and perfectly plumped lips. Only Kendall looked as if it were real.

And even the location was seeming out of touch, the gorgeous Malibu beach and waves, so removed from the world 99.999 % of those who struggle with this live in.

[wallofsound]

There was a short home video clip of Bruce jumping into a pool with some of the kids. His boobs weren't that noticeable at all. Just kind of flabby pecs. I've seen bigger boobs on men at the local pool, although on much fatter men than Bruce.

[truelovekiss]

I was happy to see them touch on how they were going to talk about Bruce to Mason and the younger kids. I really loved how they said that they hoped the situation would teach their children about open mindedness and acceptance, and that they made it kind of clear that they did intend to talk to Mason about it at some point. I actually have a lot of faith that Kourtney will do right by Bruce and Mason, and do what she can to preserve their relationship.

[tvallthetime]

i assumed it was kris and robert k's bed and kris still had it from the beginning of her marriage to bruce, not that she got it back after robert died.

 

Are people thinking it's the same mattress that Robert slept on? If it's the same bed frame/headboard, I don't think it's that odd, especially not in this family.

 

I also didn't find it that odd that Kim asked Bruce about gender reassignment surgery. This is, after all, the same family where Kourtney and Scott made a sex tape impersonating Kris and Bruce - complete with strap-on; sisters played with their little brother's penis, a tween-aged Kylie danced on stripper pole while her older brother taped it; and in another fun, family bonding moment, Kourtney, Khloe and the evening of the waxed labia.

 

Kris Jenner made me teary-eyed and I don't even care for her. I can fully believe that she didn't realize the extent of Bruce's feelings, especially if he didn't share much with her. As others have stated, some men enjoy cross-dressing but never desire to be a woman. Kris may have tolerated Bruce's proclivities as harmless, especially since she said they couldn't keep their hands off each other when they met and they had two children and a consistent sex life. If she had moments of doubt, she had real life experiences to calm her doubt.

 

After his conversation with Kris, Bruce practically glided out of the room. He was visibility lighter. I don't think this decision is as easy as setting it aside for the sake of fame and fortune. I imagine that much like anyone who denies a major part of themselves, you get so used to suppressing it you don't realize you're doing it. 

[GaT]

There was a short home video clip of Bruce jumping into a pool with some of the kids. His boobs weren't that noticeable at all. Just kind of flabby pecs. I've seen bigger boobs on men at the local pool, although on much fatter men than Bruce.

That's kind of what I was thinking he had. When bodybuilders stop lifting, they get that kind of flabby, so I think it may have looked like when he lost muscle mass when he stopped Olympic training, he got a bit flabby, but not enough to look like boobs.

[venusnv80]

That's kind of what I was thinking he had. When bodybuilders stop lifting, they get that kind of flabby, so I think it may have looked like when he lost muscle mass when he stopped Olympic training, he got a bit flabby, but not enough to look like boobs.

And that was exactly what Linda Thompson told Brody and Brandon when they were younger and asked why their dad had boobs. 

[Showthyme]

It is enormously selfish to marry, have children, remarry, have more children and then announce to everyone that you are struggling with your gender and now wish to be a woman. I get that Bruce suffered for years but he is making others suffer.

[iwasish]

Are people thinking it's the same mattress that Robert slept on? If it's the same bed frame/headboard, I don't think it's that odd, especially not in this family.

I also didn't find it that odd that Kim asked Bruce about gender reassignment surgery. This is, after all, the same family where Kourtney and Scott made a sex tape impersonating Kris and Bruce - complete with strap-on; sisters played with their little brother's penis, a tween-aged Kylie danced on stripper pole while her older brother taped it; and in another fun, family bonding moment, Kourtney, Khloe and the evening of the waxed labia.

Kris Jenner made me teary-eyed and I don't even care for her. I can fully believe that she didn't realize the extent of Bruce's feelings, especially if he didn't share much with her. As others have stated, some men enjoy cross-dressing but never desire to be a woman. Kris may have tolerated Bruce's proclivities as harmless, especially since she said they couldn't keep their hands off each other when they met and they had two children and a consistent sex life. If she had moments of doubt, she had real life experiences to calm her doubt.

After his conversation with Kris, Bruce practically glided out of the room. He was visibility lighter. I don't think this decision is as easy as setting it aside for the sake of fame and fortune. I imagine that much like anyone who denies a major part of themselves, you get so used to suppressing it you don't realize you're doing it.

I think Bruce believes he told Kris about his struggle. I also think Kris believes he downplayed it'. I do think the key is that Kris thought the divorce was the end of it. That Bruce would go away and secretly do his thing in Malibu and they would continue to live the lie on the show. Kris has such a need to have everything appear perfect on the surface. As long as the imperfect/ugly stays hidden, she can pretend it doesn't exist. That's why she loves the pictures, notice so few of her pictures are candid shots? They're all photoshopped into perfection. When she looks at them she sees a perfect flawless family and life that she's convinced they had. Bruce's transition makes all those pictures of the perfect couple with perfect children living the perfect life a lie. That's what she was crying for. Bruce ruined her fantasy.

[HumblePi]

And even the location was seeming out of touch, the gorgeous Malibu beach and waves, so removed from the world 99.999 % of those who struggle with this live in.

If you see it again, notice how E! managed to film the opening scenes in every segment in a romantic and enhanced visually colored manner. Remember, Kris Jenner is one of the executive producers of this show and I'm sure she wanted to make it all appear to be visually serene and sophisticated in order to lessen the intensity of the subject.

 

There were some important things that got right down to the 'nitty gritty' for the Jenner and Kardashian women. Khloe got right down to the point when she asked him and I'm paraphrasing here "you say you like sex with women so when you do the surgery to reassign your sex, will you be gay?"  Bruce insisted no, he's heterosexual. Khloe asked him "will you be a lesbian then?"  Bruce couldn't answer her on that question. I think that the 'girls' all need to know that although his 'soul' is female as he claims it is, that his gender will still be male and he will still remain heterosexual. BUT....and this is a big but, if he has female genitalia how is he supposed to have sex as a male?  The only sex he will be having will most likely be homosexual.  Am I way off base on this?  I guess I'm as confused on this point as Khloe and the others are.

[bagatelle]

And that was exactly what Linda Thompson told Brody and Brandon when they were younger and asked why their dad had boobs. 

 

Yes, but that wasn't the truth, was it.  She said he grew breasts as a result of injecting female hormones. 

[bagatelle]

There were some important things that got right down to the 'nitty gritty' for the Jenner and Kardashian women. Khloe got right down to the point when she asked him and I'm paraphrasing here "you say you like sex with women so when you do the surgery to reassign your sex, will you be gay?"  Bruce insisted no, he's heterosexual. Khloe asked him "will you be a lesbian then?"  Bruce couldn't answer her on that question. I think that the 'girls' all need to know that although his 'soul' is female as he claims it is, that his gender will still be male and he will still remain heterosexual. BUT....and this is a big but, if he has female genitalia how is he supposed to have sex as a male?  The only sex he will be having will most likely be homosexual.  Am I way off base on this?  I guess I'm as confused on this point as Khloe and the others are.

 

I read that transgenders don't know which sex they will prefer until after all the hormone treatments.  It could go either way, so I suppose he is waiting to find out.  He did say he always had a huge attraction to women, so perhaps he will be gay, if the hormone treatments don't change what appeals to him.

 

He's so darn calm. He seems so happy and unconcerned about almost everything.

[kayak]

showtyme, I don't know  how to quote, but you summed up my feelings well. I grew up in a time where Bruce was idolized. I don't begrudge him that at all.  He was awesome, and I had a huge crush on him at the time.  But, if you have these internal struggles, and you have known about it for years, why have more children??? It seems so selfish. I never thought I would feel bad for anyone from the K Klan, but poor Kendall and Kylie.  Isn't life hard enough at that age? I seriously wonder if Kylie's self mutilation has anything to do with this.  I am sorry for Bruce's struggle, but I don't think he is doing right by his youngest kids.  And never did right by his eldest, truth be told.

[HumblePi]

I read that transgenders don't know which sex they will prefer until after all the hormone treatments.  It could go either way, so I suppose he is waiting to find out.  He did say he always had a huge attraction to women, so perhaps he will be gay, if the hormone treatments don't change what appeals to him.

 

He's so darn calm. He seems so happy and unconcerned about almost everything.

I agree about the level of his calmness, but they have all been prepared for this filming. Spontaneous crying happens and those women will cry a lot of tears before they really come to terms with this transitioning. I just can't help loathing Bruce Jenner for saying on one hand "I don't want to hurt anyone" and on the other hand lying to all those people in his life for 65 years because he would rather keep his image, money, prestige and reputation than to give it all up for who he says he really is and has always wanted to be. He hurt many people in his life for many years and now he keeps repeating "I just don't want to hurt anyone".

[Guest]

Where is Rob in all this?  He was the one who had zero time on the Diane Sawyer interview, too.  I don't know if he wants nothing to do with the exploitation of Bruce, or with Bruce, or is just hiding from the cameras due to his own issues. 

[Guest]

I simply don't get all this BS.  Bruce has been gender frustrated since the 1960's but he's never considered what his sexuality is?  It's even a question at this point?  He couldn't definitively say that he's always had a sexual interest in women and therefore as a woman seeking a woman he would indeed be a lesbian?  This isn't rocket science and I don't buy for one freakin New York second that with all the decades of thought and family-plundering and supposed recent therapy sessions that Bruce has not given any thought to sexuality.  He's so full of it, I can smell it from here.

 

Your preferences can change as your body does and your hormones do.  He may well have no idea what gender he'll find attractive in a year or two.  

[mwell345]

 

Where is Rob in all this?  He was the one who had zero time on the Diane Sawyer interview, too.  I don't know if he wants nothing to do with the exploitation of Bruce, or with Bruce, or is just hiding from the cameras due to his own issues.

 

He tweeted support for Bruce shortly after the Sawyer interview - since then, nothing about Bruce. I think he's alienated himself from the family publicity train because of his own issues. 

Edited May 20, 2015 by mwell345

[mwell345]

Part 1 gave the show a 40% ratings boost, which I guess is really no surprise as most likely there were many first time viewers. 

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/e-keeping-up-with-the-kardashians-about-bruce-jenner-ratings-2015-5

 

I do have a question - both of these shows listed Jenner as an executive producer.  I don't recall ever seeing that before  - is he normally listed as an EP or not?  Just curious - thanks in advance!

[Darknight]

It is enormously selfish to marry, have children, remarry, have more children and then announce to everyone that you are struggling with your gender and now wish to be a woman. I get that Bruce suffered for years but he is making others suffer.

I was reading an article about where a husband was secretly gay. He was raised in a strict religious family. He tried to repress those feelings and thought getting married young might help. He had four children and had been married for 11 years. Finally after trying to take his own life he knew he couldn't take it anymore. He's been living a lie. Having sex with someone who you're not attracted to is painful. He forced himself at times. He tried to hide it and asked God why he was like this. With therapy he finally had to come out and be happy. His wife deserved to be happy. He got up one day served his wife divorce papers and came out to her. Of course it was pure pain, shock and hurt. He even said she can have custody of the kids because he understands why she wouldn't let him have them. He was alone for a while but finally happy. He told his parents who didn't want anything to do with him. They called him a scum and said he was going to hell. It's a sad story. Eventually after years of therapy the wife did feel sad and forgave him. She's still hurt because she felt her whole life with him was a lie. But she said she would rather have a happy ex husband and father to her kids than a dead one. so I kinda understand where both sides are coming from. When I was growing up homosexuality and transgender wasn't out there like it is now. Some people had to hide it, some still are.

showtyme, I don't know how to quote, but you summed up my feelings well. I grew up in a time where Bruce was idolized. I don't begrudge him that at all. He was awesome, and I had a huge crush on him at the time. But, if you have these internal struggles, and you have known about it for years, why have more children??? It seems so selfish. I never thought I would feel bad for anyone from the K Klan, but poor Kendall and Kylie. Isn't life hard enough at that age? I seriously wonder if Kylie's self mutilation has anything to do with this. I am sorry for Bruce's struggle, but I don't think he is doing right by his youngest kids. And never did right by his eldest, truth be told.

I think the family should've done this in private (yeah right) Kids and people can be cruel.

[jnymph]

It is enormously selfish to marry, have children, remarry, have more children and then announce to everyone that you are struggling with your gender and now wish to be a woman. I get that Bruce suffered for years but he is making others suffer.

Ya know.. THIS.   (actually Showthyme, you could add one more "have children, remarry" in that first statement)

 

I sincerely want to have some empathy and understanding for Bruce, but it's hard for me to get passed the fact he not only married and had kids once; not twice, but 3 effing times !!  Once I can perhaps understand; but to keep on marrying & reproducing when you KNOW you have gender issues is pure selfishness.   

 

Also, I agree with others who have mentioned he really seems ultra focused on the fashion/hair and makeup.   I didn't hear nor see where he discusses what the essence of being a woman truly means to him.   All he's done is cry about getting his hair cut.  

Edited May 20, 2015 by jnymph

[iwasish]

Ya know.. THIS.   (actually Showthyme, you could add one more "have children, remarry" in that first statement)

 

I sincerely want to have some empathy and understanding for Bruce, but it's hard for me to get passed the fact he not only married and had kids once; not twice, but 3 effing times !!  Once I can perhaps understand; but to keep on marrying & reproducing when you KNOW you have gender issues is pure selfishness.   

 

Also, I agree with others who have mentioned he really seems ultra focused on the fashion/hair and makeup.   I didn't hear nor see where he discusses what the essence of being a woman truly means to him.   All he's done is cry about getting his hair cut.  

Maybe after all those years with women obsessed with hair and makeup, he thinks that's all there is to it. I'm starting to think we might see him out on the step and repeat with lowcut cleavage and a padded ass. Especially since he is letting Kim help him with his wardrobe. She already commented on the neckline on some of his clothing.

[Janc]

Aha: I've been waiting for this to come out.   http://defamer.gawker.com/did-e-re-shoot-scenes-for-its-bruce-jenner-specials-a-1705568959

[Artsda]

Aha: I've been waiting for this to come out.   http://defamer.gawker.com/did-e-re-shoot-scenes-for-its-bruce-jenner-specials-a-1705568959

Seems like nothing there, it's not like the Kim/Kris Dubai scene.

 

Looks like all the heavy scenes were filmed over a week from Jan 13-22. With even the daughters scene and Kris/Bruce all happening the same day. Must have been a really draining day for Bruce.

[OnceSane]

Stop asking for "proof" when others express their opinion(s). People are allowed to express their opinions here even if they do not coincide with your own.

[iwasish]

Aha: I've been waiting for this to come out.   http://defamer.gawker.com/did-e-re-shoot-scenes-for-its-bruce-jenner-specials-a-1705568959

It is amusing that in the midst of all the Bruce drama, they still are taking time to film nonsense scenes about Kylie's lips and other such bullshit.

[GaT]

Aha: I've been waiting for this to come out.   http://defamer.gawker.com/did-e-re-shoot-scenes-for-its-bruce-jenner-specials-a-1705568959

Thanks for the link, figuring out when things were actually filmed always drives me crazy. Also, thanks to the screen shot of Bruce's foot, I now know that we are both wearing the same shade of pink polish on our toes. I'm not sure what that says about me.

[Timetoread]

I'm a bit worried that this whole thing is not going to go well.  For instance, how are hormones going to take on a 65 year old?  Actual 65  year old women are in menopause and body parts are being mean to them (I've got that at my age).  How will his body react to the artificiality?  Also I'm surprised at how supportive Kanye is about what will constitute ALOT of cosmetic surgery - that which killed his mother.  But mostly I worry that Bruce the Republican is going to find out the hard way that while society is much more open than in the past, society as a whole is still pretty conservative.  He may find that amongst his peers, the landing may be quite bumpy.  Bruce is not used to not winning in the end.  I really hope that he has a good therapist because if he starts to hurt it will hurt the little girls tremendously.  I find that as rich and famous and beautiful as they are (though I think Kylie is MUCH less beautiful now that she has messed with her face) I feel so sorry for them Kendall and Kylie.  This family and the dynamics swirling around it was already so complex and now this.  They never had a proper childhood. 

[cpcathy]

I admit I haven't seen much of Bruce's interviews, and I'm trying to avoid People.com's daily story of how Bruce wants Kim's outfits, but I'm wondering, honestly, if Bruce doesn't just want to crossdress? There is so much more to being female than just your clothes.

[iwasish]

I'm a bit worried that this whole thing is not going to go well. For instance, how are hormones going to take on a 65 year old? Actual 65 year old women are in menopause and body parts are being mean to them (I've got that at my age). How will his body react to the artificiality? Also I'm surprised at how supportive Kanye is about what will constitute ALOT of cosmetic surgery - that which killed his mother. But mostly I worry that Bruce the Republican is going to find out the hard way that while society is much more open than in the past, society as a whole is still pretty conservative. He may find that amongst his peers, the landing may be quite bumpy. Bruce is not used to not winning in the end. I really hope that he has a good therapist because if he starts to hurt it will hurt the little girls tremendously. I find that as rich and famous and beautiful as they are (though I think Kylie is MUCH less beautiful now that she has messed with her face) I feel so sorry for them Kendall and Kylie. This family and the dynamics swirling around it was already so complex and now this. They never had a proper childhood.

From what Bruce has said it seems he aleady has a group of friends that he socializes with, maybe a support group?

He might not be looking to be a social butterfly, he wasn't before. He could be content living up in the hills with visits from his kids and occasionally a night out. I wonder if his reveal as "her" will be a true representation of her public persona. Or will he have an anonymous look that allows him privacy when desired. He is lucky that his money allows him a level of comfort and insulation from the world that others don't enjoy. It all seems to be happening so quickly, can the younger girls really be as okay and accepting of it as it seems they are or are could it be they still haven't grasped the concept and the reality of what things will be like. Do they still expect the big family vacations to be the same, will Bruce come along? What about holidays? Does Kris really want him there? It's going to take a lot of work to navigate the new.reality this decision of Bruce's creates.

[MrsEVH]

My favorite part was Kim understanding the struggle as she likened it to when she was roly poly pregnant and couldn't even"wipe herself ". Gawd they are so classless

And that's a big area to wipe.

[MrsEVH]

The whole second segment seemed like repetition of what happened in the first episode.

I was getting tired of all the "I/we support you" and "as long as you're happy" crap over and over.

[iwasish]

And that's a big area to wipe.

Pregnant or not I'm sure it takes some maneuvering!!

. But she already admits to pissing on her spanx, so a bit of Hershey highway can't be much of an issue for her.

[RealityCowgirl]

Maybe after all those years with women obsessed with hair and makeup, he thinks that's all there is to it. I'm starting to think we might see him out on the step and repeat with lowcut cleavage and a padded ass. Especially since he is letting Kim help him with his wardrobe. She already commented on the neckline on some of his clothing.

Acknowledging that Bruce owes us nothing and anything he shares is his choice...

So far, there's a big, missed educational opportunity: helping us understand the gap between what he's been feeling all these years and the life he's lived. What did that look like? How did he handle it? What were the biggest challenges? What kinds of internal and emotional conflict did it create? How did it impact his various relationships? You get the idea.

Lacking some unexpected depth and candor on Bruce's part, his "impact" will end up being confined to scintillating insights into Her personal style and the burning question: will She will be a lesbian?

Given what he's been willing to offer - apparently even his family - I'm predicting the educational value of sharing Bruce's story will fall short of its full potential.

Edited May 20, 2015 by RealityCowgirl

[GaT]

Acknowledging that Bruce owes us nothing and anything he shares is his choice...

So far, there's a big, missed educational opportunity: helping us understand the gap between what he's been feeling all these years and the life he's lived. What did that look like? How did he handle it? What were the biggest challenges? What kinds of internal and emotional conflict did it create? How did it impact his various relationships? You get the idea.

Lacking some unexpected depth and candor on Bruce's part, his "impact" will end up being confined to scintillating insights into to Her personal style and the burning question: will She will be a lesbian?

Given what he's been willing to offer - apparently even his family - I'm predicting the educational value of sharing Bruce's story will fall short of its full potential.

Maybe they're saving all that for his series? 

[RealityCowgirl]

If they don't, GaT, they've failed us. Hoping they will, but...

I'm wondering if he has the will to really open up.

Edited May 20, 2015 by RealityCowgirl

[wallofsound]

Nothing really to do with Bruce, but I feel badly for Kylie despite not being able to stand her. She's only 17 and I was a pretty moody, miserable grouch at that age. I feel like she and Kendall were always grouped together as the young ones and now with Kendall's legitimate (non fame whore) career taking off, Kylie is just kind of left by herself. It's a tough age without watching that happen. Add to that her shitty, non existent mother, her father transitioning, her older sisters and their busy, "fabulous" lives ..... she probably feels lonely.

[iwasish]

Maybe they're saving all that for his series?

Yet maybe we are asking too much from Bruce. Why should he be a deeper, more insightful or intelligent person than the rest of the family? I mean he spent 23+ years with them and they aren't exactly the types to challenge anyone intellectually. We are perhaps expecting Bruce to answer questions that he himself hasn't even thought of. He's spent the last ten years tinkering in the garage with remote control flying machines, golfing and four wheeling, maybe he'll be content doing the same thing for the next ten years, just with the freedom to reveal his pink toenails and wear his hair however he prefers to?

[Cosmic Muffin]

Bruce coming out as transsexual might introduce the subject to a vast audience, but I don't think he or they will be able to be deeper or classier with this subject than with any other. Unfortunately. I am willing to be surprised by Bruce, etc., though on this topic.

[Starscream]

Nothing really to do with Bruce, but I feel badly for Kylie despite not being able to stand her. She's only 17 and I was a pretty moody, miserable grouch at that age. I feel like she and Kendall were always grouped together as the young ones and now with Kendall's legitimate (non fame whore) career taking off, Kylie is just kind of left by herself. It's a tough age without watching that happen. Add to that her shitty, non existent mother, her father transitioning, her older sisters and their busy, "fabulous" lives ..... she probably feels lonely.

Yeah, too bad she's latched onto a pervert.

 

I keep wondering how things would be different if this show never existed.  It seems like, aside from everybody being richer, the only one who has truly benefited in terms of personal well-being is Kendall (and maybe Bruce, if he would have otherwise kept living his lie).  Even that is suspect if she is engaging in the typical vices associated with being an international fashion model.  Everyone else seems either wholly corrupted or is Kourtney. 

[Grits]

I am all for live and let live. Be your true self! I just feel that Bruce is acting off to me. When I first saw him in the Diane Sawyer interview, he at times reminded me of The Joker character. He seems like he is unable to stay serious about the issue of what he is doing to his children. When you are a parent, you make sacrifices for your children. I don't give him a pass for hurting them. Kendell and Kylie are still teenagers. I cried with Khloe when Bruce said his only concern was Kendell and Kylie. I think the hormones he is taking is causing all this bizarre behavior. I think Bruce always like to wear women's clothes. He went through a depressed time and went to see a therapist. The therapist prescribed the hormones to Bruce. He is now behaving a little off because of all the hormones. Hormones can make people sad, depressed, or very emotional. I know during pregnancy and right after delivery I am very emotional. Some women even experience post parfumerie blues. He seems to me to have more if a split personality thing going on right now. He's two people. I would like to hear Bruce speak about all this without being on hormones. Another thing is he acting as though he is the one who will save the transgender community. He has a grandiose view of self. My opinion here has nothing to do with a person being transgender. More power to you. My opinion is on Bruce Jenner's behavior. I find it very disturbing. He needs help. He is all "love ya." He seems to have checked out. One more thing. I hope Lady B is more compassionate and has more empathy than Bruce in transition. If not she will be quite the bitch!

[kayma]

I feel bad for the kids. All of them. While this is happening to Bruce, it's also happening to them. I can't imagine what my reaction would be if my father told me he was going to transition to a woman. I can't begrudge any of them their emotions or reactions. Bruce has had his entire life to figure this out and while that was not at all easy and I'm not trying to downplay what he's gone through, the transitioning talk is new for the kids even if they knew about the cross dressing.

 

I can't believe I"m saying anything about this show is real but I think the reactions and emotions were. I can't fault Khloe for being upset, and I can't fault her for focusing on the lies for the reason why she was upset. I can't fault Kendall or Kylie for their reactions. I do think they all want Bruce to be happy but it's got to be so hard for them, too.

[HumblePi]

After watching this, I realize now that people that have struggled with being gay or lesbian have actually had it much easier than anyone born transgender. People can more or less understand homosexuality. That a woman would want to be with a woman, or a man with a man. But we all have great difficulty understanding the mind of a transgender person. For example, Chaz Bono. He was born female and transitioned into a male. But Chaz Bono was definitely homosexual, preferring sex with females. Conversely, Bruce feels female but has always preferred sex with women. This is something that is pretty difficult to understand, but the fact remains it's real and it happens.

 

I fault Bruce for not being honest with the 3 women he married. Kris, although I hate admitting it, was justified in her anger and resentment towards Bruce for not being honest with her before he married her and had two children with her. He lived a lie even though he was aware that he would be doing a lot of damage to all the people involved in his life. His wives, children, grandchildren and extended family has been deceived and outright lied to by Bruce all their lives. He just lied to himself and to them. He was selfish and wanted it all He wanted fame, money and status. In order to have all of that, he had to deceive and pretend to be what he wasn't.

Edited May 21, 2015 by HumblePi

[Nancybeth]

He lived a lie even though he was aware that he would be doing a lot of damage to all the people involved in his life. His wives, children, grandchildren and extended family has been deceive by Bruce all their lives. He just lied to himself and to them. He was selfish and wanted it all He wanted fame, money and status. In order to have all of that, he had to deceive and pretend to be what he wasn't.

 

But lots of transgender people do this...not for fame or money or status.  Maybe they're lucky enough to realize it at the age of 4 or 14.  But many of them are adults with families, just like Bruce Jenner, who have struggled with gender issues for their entire lives.  They might not have even realized they have been "lying" to anyone or pretending to be something they're not.  I really don't think they do it to hurt anyone, and I don't think Bruce did.  He's just finally being fully honest and open.

 

That being said, I do agree that Kris and the kids are justified in their resentment or anger.  As I've said before, when a loved one comes out as transgender, it is in some ways like a death.  There is a grieving process you go through and grief is rarely rational. 

[HumblePi]

I do hope for Bruce's sake that he finds a great stylist that will convince him that a middle hair part with long straight hair only makes a old woman look older. The middle-parted long hair makes him look scary and although that long hair may be a symbol for him of femininity, there has to be a style that will be more flattering.

 

I do find it sort of hilarious and ironic that he admitted to being a conservative Republican. Of any political party, the Republican Party has been the most anti-gay and provincial thinking. I don't know what other staunch old-school Republican will feel about Bruce Jenner identifying with their politics. It's just funny and bizarre that he's Republican.

Edited May 21, 2015 by HumblePi

[HumblePi]

But lots of transgender people do this...not for fame or money or status.  Maybe they're lucky enough to realize it at the age of 4 or 14.  But many of them are adults with families, just like Bruce Jenner, who have struggled with gender issues for their entire lives.  They might not have even realized they have been "lying" to anyone or pretending to be something they're not.  I really don't think they do it to hurt anyone, and I don't think Bruce did.  He's just finally being fully honest and open.

 

That being said, I do agree that Kris and the kids are justified in their resentment or anger.  As I've said before, when a loved one comes out as transgender, it is in some ways like a death.  There is a grieving process you go through and grief is rarely rational

The thing is Bruce said over and over in the interview that he knew he was lying to his family and he didn't want to hurt them. Well, eventually he has laid down just about the biggest hurt he could on all his family because now they know he was lying to them their entire lives. And why did he? It isn't as though he would be the first transgender celebrity. There were pioneers in transgender assignments by very high profile and famous people long before Bruce Jenner. Going as far back as Christine Jorgensen and Renee Richards, both pioneers in opening up about being transgender and both well known, high profile personalities. Did they hide and pretend by marrying and having a slew of children all their lives to protect their notoriety and fame?  No. Did it result in financial losses to them because of it? Certainly so. Bruce Jenner was the greatest American athlete in the world. Would he be on a box of Wheaties if he went public about being transgender? That admission would leave a vast empire of wealth trough endorsements, public speaking, appearances. television shows, books, etc. He couldn't pass it up to be who he really was. Instead, he continued the charade, marrying women, making babies and hiding his secret from all of them. I could never fault Bruce Jenner for wanting to be what he's always wanted to be all his life. Everyone deserves that. I can only fault him for wanting it right now, present time, after the fortunes are made and the children are adults.

[Artsda]

 

He seems to me to have more if a split personality thing going on right now. He's two people.

I agree with this, especially when they refer to himself and others do as "Her." Can't wait to meet her, show you her, she has more fun. It is like 2 personalities where he even had 2 separate closets one from Bruce and on for "her." Sometimes it comes off as cross dressing or playing a character, split personality situation instead of transgender. 

[iwasish]

I can't believe I"m saying anything about this show is real but I think the reactions and emotions were.

 

They seem real, but then you read and see elsewhere that they were out and about and filming other scenes about silly nonsense sometimes on the same day as these supposedly so draining and emotional scenes were filmed. They aren't spontaneous conversations they are having, there is a whole production going on, camera men, makeup and hair people, wardrobe, lighting etc. It's not like the stuff evolved naturally. The only REAL conversations they had were the ones where he told them individually about his decision and it appears those meetings were not filmed. So there's an element of stuff being staged and recreated for dramatic purposes.Regardless, I think its cruel and selfish of Bruce to have his youngest children's emotions manipulated for entertainment.  Kris shouldn't allow it either.

[mywinston]

I hold the same sentiment that the entire K family lather, rinsed and repeated all throughout this - I'm happy for Bruce, or for anyone getting out of what sounds like a despairing situation and finally finding some peace. When I saw the Diane Sawyer sit down, I thought, more power to him, I even found his whimsy and lackadaisical attitude endearing. Two hours of this special, I come away with the same happy for him being happy belief, but something does seem off. I thought the Sawyer interview was maybe first time jitters, frantic with bursts of delight, but whoever said he's coming off Jokerish was kind of spot on. Now there's nothing wrong with being gleeful, but to be so in the same breath as attempting to comfort your crying, struggling children? Who are right in front of you? A little offputting. Telling Khloe, who is clearly having a lot of trouble, that he really only cares about Kylie and Ken? Apathetic dodging of really valid questions about transitioning, when he already clearly knows and has plans? Cackling about shoes and blouses he stole from the girl's while shrugging off heartbreaking concerns from his children?

 

It does seem to be a set pattern in his life. Spread children out everywhere, ignore the lion's share of them, break three women's hearts, then enjoy the life of a hero. Strike the, two lives of a hero. What he's doing is admirable, and everyone should be happy. But the way he's going about it? No wonder his children are taking issue with it. Has a certain aura of greediness. He says he raised all his kids and now it's Bruce time. Kylie is raised? Brody not one season ago was still displaying signs of abandonment. Kendall was sobbing saying she didn't want people to say "Bruce is dead." It really doesn't sound like he took any time to nurture his family through this. I don't know. I know this was a journey he didn't want to, maybe couldn't put off anymore, but disappearing to Malibu and being purposefully vague before springing this in a family doesn't seem to be the best way to do it. He said there was no right way, and I do believe that, but it very clearly isn't THIS. I mean, I felt bad for Kris Jenner, guys. smh

[xls]

Your preferences can change as your body does and your hormones do.  He may well have no idea what gender he'll find attractive in a year or two.  

I saw a documentary where a lesbian transitioned into a man, from then on he was attracted to men. 

Still, half of me has a sneaking suspicion this is all a hoax. i don't believe a damn thing anyone of these Kardashian people say.

[peaceknit]

I'm a bit worried that this whole thing is not going to go well.  For instance, how are hormones going to take on a 65 year old?  Actual 65  year old women are in menopause and body parts are being mean to them 

 

This is the issue with Bruce's journey that I cannot understand. Does it mean that he will be taking hormones for the rest of his life?

[Maya]

Your preferences can change as your body does and your hormones do.  He may well have no idea what gender he'll find attractive in a year or two.  

 

Why doesn't he explain this then? Clearly people don't understand, including his own family. If he wants to be a spokesperson for the transgender community, he needs to be more forthright.