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Michelle and JimBob aka J'Chelle and Boob

OSM Mom

By OSM Mom
in Counting On

cm-soupsipper
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Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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doodlebug
doodlebug

I'm from a fairly big city and raised mostly in town though also the suburbs.  I've had the same experience.  I attend a Catholic church and am active in several volunteer things there including medic

Aja
Aja

Once again, Michelle, I'm going to have to bum you out with a big old steaming pile of fact: I was born a girl, I'm glad to be a girl, I'm very feminine looking, I love being feminine looking...AND I'

doodlebug
doodlebug

Happens all the time.  Had someone tell us they couldn't pay the bill for prenatal care because they were building a new house and couldn't spare the money.  Another had just bought a new car.  BTW, i

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Wellfleet

Wellfleet

What I would like to know is if Michelle attended ANY of the previous reunions, if there were any held? I bet NOT...I think this is just for the show's sake. I can't imagine Michelle caring one bit about any of them except her one friend, Cindy, that she is allowed to keep in touch with...another fake, set up situation...

Regarding the accountability in public: none of the girls are allowed to go anywhere off the property by themselves...technically Jinger should have had one of her siblings go to the jewelry store with her..we didn't see anyone FILMED there with her...doesn't mean she went by herself.

Re: Jessa and Ben before marriage on the porch swing out on his parents' porch: Jessa said to Mr. Jim that he could be her chaperone: Mr. Jim responded that that wasn't a role he would fulfill...Jessa shrugged her shoulder as it to say "screw that, then" and stayed with Ben outside anyway...pretty telling to me, so how is it now, that she is all "hellfire and brimstone"?

I think Jim Bob, as a father, wants to tell his sons what to do professionally, and allows them a margin of success; not to outdo him; but does not want to see them struggle...a double edged sword there...any good parent WANTS to see their children succeed, yes, even more than they themselves did..Can't imagine anything else..don't understand why he has such a need to rule and reign over his own family...I'd like to know where this really came from...anyone who went to school with JB or knew him in his early days, should let us know that truth about that..at least we would have the real story...but that's just my opinion folks.

 

 

Personality tendencies are inborn in all of us to a certain extent. And then Nurture takes over, when caregivers and experiences begin to shape the individual as well. In Boob's case, I think his abnormally over-the-top desire to control his world stems from his childhood & teen years, when it sounds like he was virtually helpless to control anything at all. With a bit of "Little Man Syndrome" thrown in. It's been mentioned more than once how small Boob was until some point, late in high school IIRC, when he had his final growth spurt and attained his adult height. From his own stories and comments on the show, it sounds like he was looked on as a "nothing special" kind of kid, small and probably ignored by others most of the time, very likely bullied on occasion, and clearly never taken seriously as he wanted. While we're at it, I don't think he had particularly warm-and-fuzzy parents either, which didn't help in the self-esteem department. Then it sounds like sometime in high school, around the time he falls for Mechelle the Cheerleader, he also discovers Gothard and a world in which men are superior and rule everything. And the light bulb comes on - and he realizes that this is his big chance, that this "way of life" would afford him the opportunity to control almost everything.

  • Love 5
floridamom

floridamom

What teen ager controls everything in their lives in the first place? I don't think Jim Bob grew up with a tight leash around his neck either. I'm sure his parents were regular regional people, more religious mother than father, but certainly not bad or controlling people..if he had a harder time in high school, so what? Many people have ups and downs in life..I don't recall him ever recounting that he was teased in school or miserable in his teen years, after all, he was active in his church's youth group to go around and meet Michelle with his friend in the first place...If you want to describe teens having NO control over their lives, just look at all of his children... now, THEY don't have any control over their lives..How could he do that to them?

  • Love 3
msblossom

msblossom

For as controlling as JB & M are, I'm surprised no one has run away or rebelled in any significant way. They all come across very mild and respectful to their parents. I imagine at some point one of the kids will get unhinged and rebel, not that I wish it on any of them. We haven't seen this in the Bateses family either, although Gil and Kelly are far more involved, and relate to their kids with warmth and love.

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Jamiesmum

Jamiesmum

It is very difficult to leave what you have known all your life, particularly when the alternative is shown as being so terrible. It's not like these kids grew up knowing that things were different outside their own family. Being homeschooled, they were not allowed to see how other, non-fundie families operated, and were still normal good human beings.

From reading posts on Recovering Grace, it is a huge step to leave your family, belief system etc behind and make that step into the unknown. And who could these kids turn to for real help? Who do they know that they could really trust to be their long term back up? They are so used to being in a pack, being on their own would be abnormal and I think cry frightening for any one of them.

Most "normal" kids usually can't wait to fly the nest in some shape or form. Be that by study, work, travel. Even grown kids who still live with their parents get experience their own indivuality by being able to leave the home for normal activities. That doesn't happen for these kids.

And I would think that the fall out for any of them who tried it, then neede to return home would be horrendous. JB & M in full on "we told you what it would be like, we tried to save you from yourself" mode. Any returnee would be ensalved for evermore, and the guilt piled high.

Any escape would need to be carefully planned and have co-operation from a third party. I just hope there are those people out there would help and support any of them who need it. It is not impossible, but it will be tough. My heart goes out to all the kids. I wish them well and hope they can forge a good life for themselves.

As for JB & M, they will receive their rewards come Judgement Day. And they won't know what hit them.

  • Love 2
cmr2014

cmr2014

I was thinking about the high school reunion -- it just makes no sense at all. The Duggars have no interest in people outside the cult, and only minor interest in people outside the immediate family, I can't imagine the scenario where J'chelle wants to catch-up with her old classmates.

 

She carries a lot of shame about her behavior in high school. I wonder if this is some sort of Gothard style "counseling" where she is supposed to go there and be re-shamed to improve her character.

 

The other thought that struck me was that J'chelle is beginning to panic that the J'slaves are leaving home, and she might have to actually parent the younger children. I wonder if there is some plan afoot for JB to have God lay on his heart that Christian school isn't such a bad thing. They can put the kids into school and J'chelle will not have to go back to teaching at the SOTDRT.

  • Love 1
ChocolateAddict

ChocolateAddict

Jana or Joy will be around until Miracle and the Lost Girls are old enough to cope physically without a parent (emotionally they are probably stuffed knowing Mechelle) so I don't think that they will be off to an actual school. 

If Joy is 17 now and, like Jana, stays at home until her twenties, Mechelle has (at least) another 5-7 years before she has to worry about actually taking control of parenting.  And by that time, Jennifer, Jordyn and Josie will be old enough to be doing online "school".  And Jill will probably be roped into bringing all the Dilly children around to "bond with their aunts/uncles" or whatever so she can help out too.

Mechelle has essentially set herself up for a life without parenting.  In a horrible way, I'm actually rather impressed 

  • Love 3
GEML

GEML

Because it was relatively normal, I think most of us make the assumption that Jim Bob and Michelle view their youth as happy. But I don't think they do - I think they wish (perhaps insincerely) that they had had people guiding them the way they do over their children. They were fortunate, but they just as easily could have made the most terrible of mistakes like their siblings (becoming pregnant before marriage or becoming gay - and I'm sure they think gay is a choice.)

  • Love 2
Darknight

Darknight

I think the Duggar kids are lucky compared to other fundies. If they do chose to leave they do have a support system. Their fans can help them out. And I'm sure tlc will throw JimChelle under the bus for ratings. They can promote a tell all book. But escaping would mean shunning. But I don't think JimChelle are going to neccessarily shun their kids because then their image is tainted. I think JimChelle would probably milk an out of control kid. Then they have their siblings to worry about. The kids they raised and been with since birth. I'm sure the Duggar kids know compared to regular people they're weird

Because it was relatively normal, I think most of us make the assumption that Jim Bob and Michelle view their youth as happy. But I don't think they do - I think they wish (perhaps insincerely) that they had had people guiding them the way they do over their children. They were fortunate, but they just as easily could have made the most terrible of mistakes like their siblings (becoming pregnant before marriage or becoming gay - and I'm sure they think gay is a choice.)

It wasn't until Michelle met JB that she started to feel guilty about her life. JB also threw his father under the bus. I'm guessing JB wasn't popular in hs and was bullied. Then he met Michelle, the hot cheerleader and wanted to get with her. gothard and a ton of other cults prey on the valuable.

  • Love 2
Wellfleet

Wellfleet

What teen ager controls everything in their lives in the first place? I don't think Jim Bob grew up with a tight leash around his neck either. I'm sure his parents were regular regional people, more religious mother than father, but certainly not bad or controlling people..if he had a harder time in high school, so what? Many people have ups and downs in life..I don't recall him ever recounting that he was teased in school or miserable in his teen years, after all, he was active in his church's youth group to go around and meet Michelle with his friend in the first place...If you want to describe teens having NO control over their lives, just look at all of his children... now, THEY don't have any control over their lives..How could he do that to them?

 

I'm not saying Boob was on an especially-tight leash as a child. I just believe HE thinks he was. I think he was extremely eager to be more in control of his life. I'm not sure whether or not he's talked about being teased or bullied on 19K&C. It certainly does seem unlikely. I mean, how many men as controlling and in-charge as Boob is would admit to that? And the bottom line is, it doesn't matter whether he's spoken about it on TLC. It's still fairly likely that it happened - just because of the way kids are - and that it affected him in a significant way. Why? Because for whatever reason, he signed onto the Gothard "men control everything" bandwagon at a very young age.

  • Love 2
Gianthambeast

Gianthambeast

Jim Boob can't be reproductively competitive in a normal society.  The only way that a red-necked, flabby, butt-ugly moron like him can catch a woman to inseminate twenty times over is by using religious ideology to brainwash her first.  Gothardite men can't compete on their own merits (education, accomplishments, looks, brains,etc.) so they need his bullshit teachings to land women and exert control over them. 

  • Love 8
cmr2014

cmr2014

This whole reunion thing just seems very "off" to me.

 

J'chelle has never shown any interest in reliving her HS years. She only makes passing reference to that time, and it is always shame- and regret-filled.

 

Did the reunion committee contact her and promise her that everyone was dying to see her, and she would be the center of attention? That, I would buy.

 

And what's the deal with the kid (Joy-Anna?). Who brings their child to a high school reunion?

 

I don't think any of her classmates has "spilled the beans" on her because I don't think there were a lot of beans to spill. I think she was just a normal high school kid with normal friends, and regular teenage problems. It probably wasn't until she started dating "that JimBob guy" that things started to change. Plus, I don't think they were that weird for the first few years of their marriage. It wasn't until they started going to the Gothard seminars that they started going off the rails.

  • Love 4
Barb23

Barb23

I agree with there probably aren't beans to spill on MEchelle. My memory is good but looking back on my high school days, I can't remember things that a certain person did unless they were a close friend. I'm sure someone retelling a story would trigger a certain memory but unless it was monumental most people forget. I think MEchelle was just a normal teenager like most in her class. Even though she turned out to be a Reality TV Star to a certain degree, there are plenty of schools with graduates who have made it big in TV, music, sports, politics, etc. Mine included.

  • Love 1
Ljohnson1987

Ljohnson1987

As we've all seen on the show, J'Chelle gushes about how great having grandkids is. How come she barely acknowledges the kids when they lived near them? Did she ever give Smuggar and Anna a break, and keep them overnight? I honestly think that J'Chelle is jealous of her grandkids, because she can no longer have kids. You should enjoy them. You'll have many. J'Chelle can't stand it when the attention isn't solely on her.

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GEML

GEML

I remember tons from high school. I'm three years younger than Michelle.

Jim Bob may have started the "what are you doing? Is that a sin?" But Michelle joined in mighty quickly. So I don't see how you blame either teenage over the other. And for years afterward, they were religious, but not cult-like or isolated about it. I expect it was someone else altogether who revised their childhoods.

Skittl1321

Skittl1321

 

And what's the deal with the kid (Joy-Anna?). Who brings their child to a high school reunion?

Someone who has no idea what "quality time with each child" means.  I think another kid got to go grocery shopping once for their birthday.  But my memory may be fuzzy.

 

 

Did she ever give Smuggar and Anna a break, and keep them overnight?

Doesn't Jana have enough work?

Joe Jitsu913

Joe Jitsu913

Will Michelle boycott TLC because of this? What if the Duggars have to appear in promos for TLC along with Jazz Jennings? They've had to do promos with other TLC "stars" How would Michelle handle that?

  • Love 1
maraleia

maraleia

Will Michelle boycott TLC because of this? What if the Duggars have to appear in promos for TLC along with Jazz Jennings? They've had to do promos with other TLC "stars" How would Michelle handle that?

I heart Jazz Jennings and I'm glad that she is getting a platform to tell her story. I can't wait to see what MEshelle and Boob have to say about this.

 

Jazz is also one of the spokeperson's for Clean and Clear http://www.popsugar.com.au/beauty/Jazz-Jennings-Beauty-37069782

  • Love 4
Betweenyouandme

Betweenyouandme

I heart Jazz Jennings and I'm glad that she is getting a platform to tell her story. I can't wait to see what MEshelle and Boob have to say about this.

I wonder if they just won't say anything. Which...I don't know. I can't imagine them saying anything that would go over well unless they apologized for the past and vowed to change in the future. I don't see them wanting to do that.

  • Love 1
floridamom

floridamom

It's ok for them to associate themselves with the heathens and "others" for TLC money and appear on TV promos and commercials for the network, in support of the network, but it's NOT ok for any of their children to attend even a Christian school and be in a classroom for knowledge seeking because they might be exposed to someone who might be "Christian lite" in that facility? For the love of MONEY????? They are hypocrites.

  • Love 3
andromeda331

andromeda331

Jim Bob may have started the "what are you doing? Is that a sin?" But Michelle joined in mighty quickly. So I don't see how you blame either teenage over the other. And for years afterward, they were religious, but not cult-like or isolated about it. I expect it was someone else altogether who revised their childhoods.

 

 

I do find it hard to believe Michelle didn't want to join. She doesn't seem the type to stick with anything that doesn't give her what she wants. She had everything she wanted. All the attention she wanted, someone else to do all the work of raising her kids, cleaning and house work. Then came TLC to put her on tv and in came even more attention and money.

  • Love 2
trimthatfat

trimthatfat

Will Michelle boycott TLC because of this? What if the Duggars have to appear in promos for TLC along with Jazz Jennings? They've had to do promos with other TLC "stars" How would Michelle handle that?

Well, they've been on a network that showcases unmarried couples living together, polygamists, etc. so they likely don't care as long as their TLC check clears.

  • Love 6
Barb23

Barb23

MEchelle's meds need to be adjusted. I had the old episodes on tonight for background noise while cooking dinner. It was Jessa's wedding dress episode & MEchelle was rambling on about something. Hard to describe what she was doing but it was very similar to how she sounded when she gave her speech at Jill's wedding dress episode. She was hesitating in the middle of sentences, maybe to emphasize something, but I had to stop what I was doing to figure out what she was saying. Maybe I don't notice it as much when I'm watching her talk on TV, but just listening to her talk.......oh my !!

Joe Jitsu913

Joe Jitsu913

MEchelle's meds need to be adjusted. I had the old episodes on tonight for background noise while cooking dinner. It was Jessa's wedding dress episode & MEchelle was rambling on about something. Hard to describe what she was doing but it was very similar to how she sounded when she gave her speech at Jill's wedding dress episode. She was hesitating in the middle of sentences, maybe to emphasize something, but I had to stop what I was doing to figure out what she was saying. Maybe I don't notice it as much when I'm watching her talk on TV, but just listening to her talk.......oh my !!

I'm guessing it included the words 'amazing ' 'awesome' 'blessing' 'neat'.

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floridamom

floridamom

Just checked out Shiloh Christian School's website, Jim Bob's alma mater and guess what? They have photos of current female students wearing PANTS! Just how long is that man going to operate behind that transparent curtain of "following no man" and think he's fooling us? They obviously are NOT any kind of mainstream religious belief and are loyal followers of that guy, Mr. Gothard's principles, beliefs and commandments...it's painifully obvious. It it were Michelle's own private conviction to NEVER wear pants, have long hair and dress relatively frumpy for the Lord, there wouldn't be a large cult following that dressed exactly like her and her daughters, now would there be? they obviously are lying to the general public about their beliefs and practices..isn't that a sin?

  • Love 3
Barb23

Barb23

(edited)

The Duggars were mainstream for several years when they married. I've even heard that Josh might have gone to a Christian school for Kindergarten, but I'm not sure about that. But that would put them in the ballpark of not going full Fundy until about 8-10 years into their marriage.

As my mother would say about things "and that's when the trouble started."

Edited by Barb23
  • Love 6
ramble

ramble

Speaking of Mechelle & high school, I know several people that went to school with her. Their observations have been along the lines that she's different & has definitely changed, but they're living their own lives & aren't too interested. I think what I'm trying to say is that the people I know have nothing to "tell all" about because they just see the Duggars as an anomaly from their school days & there are plenty of those in one form or the other. I know several people who, without really paying attention to them, admire their seeming family-centric life & supposed Christian message. I also know many that think they're crazy, as in the rabbit spawning family who dress like Little House on the Prairie. However, the vast majority of people I know in NWA don't pay any attention & to them & are unaware of what they're doing 99% of the time.

  • Love 7
msblossom

msblossom

Hmm, not being fundamental myself, what would be the draw to make the leap from conservative Christianity to fundie? Did JB & M find something lacking? Did they get invited to a Basic Life Principles conference and feel drawn to it? I'm asking bc I don't know anyone who is fundamental and I've only had a few interactions with Mennonites and Pentecostal Holiness people.

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Absolom

Absolom

This is a question that has been asked a lot and never definitively answered.  Suppositions include being misinformed that BC pills caused the first miscarriage and resulting guilt, going to one of Gothard's Basic Seminars and being taken in by it, seeking answers in their young lives and looking for a plan and finding Gothard.  I'm guessing it was a combination of a local church hosting a Basic Seminar about the time that they were guilt ridden over the miscarriage.  Then they were hooked without ever realizing it.  They have claimed in the past that they ran into "some homeschoolers" with such well behaved and well socialized children that they wanted the same for their family.  That was Gothard's ATI so it could have been in conjunction with a Basic Seminar.  

  • Love 4
cmr2014

cmr2014

I think there was a "perfect storm" of factors.

 

People want answers, and they want security. They were dealing with a loss, and were seeking answers. Being able to blame yourself for something, oddly enough, can be very comforting -- if you are the cause of the problem, you can solve it, if it's just a random thing, you don't have any control.

 

And, of course, that leads to the fact that both JB and J'chelle are very controlling. This cult really allows them to be completely in control. They have complete control over their own lives (no bosses!) and over their children.

 

I think that they have a very low threshold for emotional pain. A miscarriage can be devastating for emotionally stable people, but for people who are not (hello, J'chelle), it can be especially traumatic. Gothardism and all of these rules (like homeschooling and courting) allow them to feel like they are protecting their children from any possible emotional harm (mean classmates, broken hearts, etc.). I think that we look at these things and see creepy controlling nut-cases, while they see themselves as good parents who are protecting their children from unhappiness.

 

I also think that JB is a follower, and he needs someone to tell him what to do (he is even following Ben -- they are suddenly much more invested in the anti-abortion movement since Ben appeared). If they hadn't found Gothard, it would just be someone else.

  • Love 9
GEML

GEML

I think it probably comes back to Deanna having Amy and not getting married and Michelle's sister being gay (and perhaps other "lifestyle sins" her siblings might be doing, including living together or casual drinking, etc.)

Gothard's main promise is that under his program these things won't happen to your children. It's a false promise, but his numbers are higher than most. I think Jim Bob and Michelle looked at their parents and thought, "Well, we turned out ok, but what if only some of our children turn out like us, and some of our children act like our brothers and sisters? Can we take the worry and heartbreak?" They decided they couldn't, so they did it "for the kids."

Oh, and the fact that they controlled every aspect of their lives? Bonus.

  • Love 4
andromeda331

andromeda331

Hmm, not being fundamental myself, what would be the draw to make the leap from conservative Christianity to fundie?

 

 

I've wondered this many times I see other answers. Control seems likely since they love to be in control and I can understand being devastated by a miscarriage. I can understand how heartbreaking that can be. But still the big push into a fundie I still can't figure out or maybe the better term is understand why they made the leap. I can see turning to God, it common to look to Him or who ever people's deity is for answers. But get into a religion that rejects everything and believe it? To buy into it? Turning against education? Following someone who tells you women can't work after years of working? Following someone who tells you that everyone else in the world is evil? Catholics are evil, people of different races and religions are evil? I can't figure out how any of this is believed. If it was me I'd laugh in his face and think he needs a straight jacket. Both of them had been around different people their entire lives Michelle went to a public school, she did everything normal. I see other suggestions and I guess I'm thinking from my point of view none of them seem like deal breakers. A sister is gay. A sister who had a baby out of wedlock. I considered myself sheltered my town used to be kind of small but I went to public school with people from all walks of life. One of my best friends was Catholic, two more were sisters from Iraq, some have had kids and didn't get married, some have kids and some don't. I can't figure out what makes someone jump from normal things into such a restrictive religion where everything that is normal is considered evil.

  • Love 3
cm-soupsipper
Message added by cm-soupsipper,

Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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