S05.E09: A Moorland Holiday (Christmas Special)

[alias1]

The whole Denker/broth plot was ridiculous.  Who couldn't put together some kind of palatable broth?  Even with Daisy and Mrs Patrmore helping, the first broth was so unsatisfactory?   And then they gave Denker the ingredients to make a broth and she couldn't pull it off?  Ridiculous beyond belief.  I'm no cook but I believe even I could come up with something edible.  What a waste of screen time.

[Avaleigh]

The whole Denker/broth plot was ridiculous.  Who couldn't put together some kind of palatable broth?  Even with Daisy and Mrs Patrmore helping, the first broth was so unsatisfactory?   And then they gave Denker the ingredients to make a broth and she couldn't pull it off?  Ridiculous beyond belief.  I'm no cook but I believe even I could come up with something edible.  What a waste of screen time.

Thank you! How hard is it to make a decent broth especially after you've just had a lesson from a couple of experts. 

 

It was like Denker was being expected to whip up some difficult souffle or something. 

[helenamonster]

No no no :)

 

Haven't we previously established that Sybil, and Matthew, and Gregson were all turned into Twilight like vampires by William Mason?

 

Well, in my deluded little fantasy world, they're hanging out with all the other fictional characters I refuse to believe are dead on a nice private island, sipping Mai Tais. But that works too!

[peggy06]

So Thomas is called an idiot in the heat of the moment, and that somehow justifies his dragging poor Diana and her son up to Brancaster with who knows what dreadful consequences? Granted that it's hard to feel much sympathy for Lord Sinderby here, but I definitely feel it for Lady Sinderby, as well as the mistress and child. Also, for all we know Sinderby is supporting the child, and doesn't exactly deserve to have this come out in the middle of a huge grouse shooting party. And let's not forget that Stowell could lose his job over this. Yes, Stowell was a dreadful snob. Yes, Lady Mary suggested taking him down a peg. I doubt she meant for him to be sacked. Certainly she wouldn't have wanted her hosts to be drawn into anything. And what happens to Thomas? Nothing. He preens himself over it. I guess he didn't gain much self-knowledge or character growth from his own recent crisis. Bringing Baxter into this scheme, too - that's just not on.

 

I briefly felt sorry for him, but he is back to being incredibly full of himself, and hang everybody else.

[ZoloftBlob]

Well, of course they are, but they are also vampires because well.... why not? :)

 

I mean its as plausible as everyone being totally cool about the gay underbutler.

 

ETA - now that I think about it, I think it Dr. Reginald Crawley who was the head vampire.

 

For all of the angst about having an heir, Robert has barely acknowledged poor George's existence.

 

Psst - to acknowledge George would mean Robert might have to mention He Who Must Not Be Named :)

Edited March 3, 2015 by ZoloftBlob

[Clanstarling]

 

 

Bates, stop being so goddamn noble!  There was a dark part of me hoping that, at the end after Christmas, Daisy would walk into the kitchen with a telegram stating that John Bates was shot over the Sea of Japan (and the camera panning the room of the servants in shock and Baxter crying and Mrs. Patmore continuing to cook, withholding her emotions).  But, then he showed up at the end and took Anna in his arms and my heart melted.  My softyness overcame my mean-spirited fantasyness.

Anyone who can connect MASH to Downton Abbey has my complete admiration! Laughed long and hard.

 

Exactly how hard is it to make BROTH, for heaven's sake. Good lord, I could see an entire subplot being shown about making a yeast bread or perfectly medium rare ribeye, but BROTH?

 

 

Who couldn't put together some kind of palatable broth?  Even with Daisy and Mrs Patrmore helping, the first broth was so unsatisfactory?   And then they gave Denker the ingredients to make a broth and she couldn't pull it off?  Ridiculous beyond belief.  I'm no cook but I believe even I could come up with something edible.  What a waste of screen time.

I am a cook, and a palatable broth from scratch - one that stands on its own as the main dish - can be tricky. There are far more ingredients and techniques involved than you might think. I've found yeast bread and ribeye far easier.

 

But that doesn't mean I liked this silly plot.

Edited March 3, 2015 by clanstarling

[ennui]

Also, for all we know Sinderby is supporting the child, and doesn't exactly deserve to have this come out in the middle of a huge grouse shooting party.

Deserve?  I fail to see Thomas as the bad guy. If people behaved appropriately, there wouldn't be any secrets to expose.

Edited March 3, 2015 by ennui

[SFoster21]

Anyone who can connect MASH to Downton Abbey has my complete admiration! Laughed long and hard.

I am a cook, and a palatable broth from scratch - one that stands on its own as the main dish - can be tricky. There are far more ingredients and techniques involved than you might think. I've found yeast bread and ribeye far easier.

But that doesn't mean I liked this silly plot.

Broths are simple, but they can't be achieved on what amounts to a powder room stove. There is a fair amount of ingredients, time and tools involved. As a lady's maid, she has no use of the kitchen and kitchen equipment. Cooks ruled; she couldn't piss off the Cook.

The poster who said that the servant who allegedly made broth (which does not take the same amount of time as cocoa, say) probably just strained some broth from the stockpot in the kitchen was telling it straight.

[Rhetorica]

Anyone who can connect MASH to Downton Abbey has my complete admiration! Laughed long and hard.

I am a cook, and a palatable broth from scratch - one that stands on its own as the main dish - can be tricky. There are far more ingredients and techniques involved than you might think. I've found yeast bread and ribeye far easier.

But that doesn't mean I liked this silly plot.

Thank you! I read the posts and thought something was wrong with me. I get by, but for the life of me cannot make fudge, gravy, or broth that my family will eat.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Rhetorica

[Runningwild]

The only thing I didn't like about last night's episode was finding out it will be next January before we get new DA! I love Drunk Donk! I also loved when he was asking what was going on and Mary pointedly looked at Lord Whathisname and then at Lord Grantham and he replies, "Oh, Crikey!"

[Harry24]

the broth entries in the recap had me laughing our loud!

 

I know!  That was just awesome.  LOL funny. 

[Almost 3000]

Ok, I really don't get the broth problem. Take some water, bones, onion, carrot & celery, bay leaf, salt & peppercorns; bring to boil and simmer, then cool and strain. What am I missing?

[SusanSunflower]

The problem is that broth often tastes really strangely nasty or just hopelessly bland and greasy once you remove all the vegetables and meat you added and/or strained it through cheesecloth. Beef broth is much harder than chicken. Yes, better to start with a liter of the rich broth from the big house. Serious cookbook recipes for "broth" involve pounds of bone and big pots.  eta: IOW, Soup is easier to make than broth 

Edited March 3, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[Constantinople]

Speaking of clothes porn, I want the red coat Mary wore to visit Anna.  That was a thing of beauty!

 

It's ballsy to visit an accused murderess while draped in a blood red coat.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Thank you! How hard is it to make a decent broth especially after you've just had a lesson from a couple of experts.

It was like Denker was being expected to whip up some difficult souffle or something.

 

 

All true, but Denker is Vi's maid so cooking is not part of her duties anyway.  I wasn't bothered by any of this, the way so many seem to have been.  I don't like Spratt.  I think he's a nasty, snobbish, priggish bully.  But Denker's no bargain either.  The way she used Andy & came back to the Crawley London place drunk-as-a-skunk was crappy.  She's not nice.  But if the 2 of them bickering sets up some good lines for Vi, then it's all OK by me.

 

And what happens to Thomas? Nothing. He preens himself over it. I guess he didn't gain much self-knowledge or character growth from his own recent crisis. Bringing Baxter into this scheme, too - that's just not on.

I fail to see Thomas as the bad guy. If people behaved appropriately, there wouldn't be any secrets to expose.

 

 

I agree, in this situation Thomas was def NOT the worst of the bunch.  That would be Sinderby.  But what Thomas did was pretty darn nasty.  I've said it before & I'll say it again.  Old sinister moustache-twirling Thomas has not left the building.  Keep a watchful eye out, Andy.

[SusanSunflower]

I don't buy Daddy Warbuck's "conversion' to loving Rose and her nasty family -- and not realizing the Granthams were at the root of the "dirty tricks" . Maybe not immediately, but he and/or his nasty nasty butler will figure out that his mistress' visit was triggered by someone in the Grantham camp -- IMHO, the obviousness of the "payback" for being rude to Tom and then Thomas getting the nasty nasty butler to divulge what must have been information held close-to-the-vest.  Like Marigold, one of those "secrets" or "deceptions" that can't last ... 

someone wrote the bogus note to the cook, someone summoned the mistress from London ... obvious inside job. They may not be able to finger Thomas ... but then again, he "should" already have a reputation due to past exploits. The nasty-nasty butler will likely want revenge (no matter how much he hates Sinderby) and he wants to keep his job .. no, we (the audience) will never hear of this incident again, but imho we should ... Let's see who -- besides Shrimpy -- knows that it was Rose's mother responsible for the photos of Atticus ... And Rose's secret is knowing that Atticus' father not only cheats on his mother, but has a second family ... how cozy. 

Edited March 3, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[izabella]

Upon rewatch, I heard Atticus explain the presence of Henry Talbot and the estate agent.

 

Henry is a friend of Atticus's friend Charlie Rogers.  For some reason, Henry is staying with Charlie so either he comes to the castle with Charlie, or Charlie has to no show.  So Atticus told him to just go ahead and bring Henry.  Atticus won't be able to shoot because of it. 

 

Lord Sinderby steps in and says, hey, I'll tell the [estate] agent not to come.  And Atticus said, no, no, poor Mr. Barron (Parron?), that would be unkind.  And then Atticus says, "I don't why exactly but we feel a bit sorry for him."  And then the camera cuts to Edith who smirks.

 

I missed that last part on the first viewing.  Seems like a match made in heaven for Edith and the estate agent!

Edited March 3, 2015 by izabella

[Micks Picks]

I wonder if the improvement is clothes is due to the success of Selfridges Department store in London where he had plenty of seamtresses and tons of fabric.  Now what will we have with ready to wear.

[Andorra]

The agent's name is Bertie Pelham. And Gareth Neame has described him as "not the most exciting character".

 

So it's clear he's going to be the new agent in Downton now that Tom is gone. He will be unlucky, do everything wrong and Tom will come home to the rescue.

 

And the loser will of course fall in love with the loser sister. A match made in heaven.

 

I like the actor though. He's nice.

[millennium]

Now Michelle Dockery is lovely and a good actress but the way men fall instantly in love with her is too much.  She's very attractive but Helen of Troy she's not. And again could we just let go of the Mary sniping at Edith stuff? Mary, pull an Elsa and Let It Go!

 

 

I've noticed that whenever men fall under Mary's spell, it's usually in situations where there seem to be only 2-3 women of similar age and availability present -- and one of them is always Edith.   In such instances, it's not unusual that these swains would put the moves on Mary.   She's the only game in town.   In different circumstances, say, at some society event teeming with elegant young ladies, Mary might come off looking a bit old and not worth the effort.  

 

I liked the unhurried pace of this episode.  The castle was a wonderful setting.

 

Did Robert say the doctors thought he had a vagina?

[Andorra]

Did Robert say the doctors thought he had a vagina?

 

 

LOL, no. They said it could be "angina" (pectoris).

Edited March 3, 2015 by Andorra

[Llywela]

Did Robert say the doctors thought he had a vagina?

Robert has angina, which is chest pain caused by heart disease.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Llywela

[terrymct]

Guess I'm in the minority, but I don't think Isobel did the right thing. Those sons are grown ass men. Who their father marries is none of their damn business. All they have to do is be civil to her when they visit dad.

 

I agree.   The relationship between father and sons is already bad, given that Dad realizes they're haughty idiots.   Whether the marriage takes place or not has no relevance on that relationship now.  I guess it just came down to Isobel not wanting to have to deal with it.

 

I was glad Violet finally put a stop to the bickering among her staff.  I don't understand why she didn't do that a long, long time before.

[MyAimIsTrue]

Also, when Carson almost cries of happiness it is the best thing ever.

 

I absolutely squealed with delight during that scene!  Jim Carter has an amazing ability to convey so much with just the look on his face.

[proserpina65]

And yes, it's perfectly understandable that Donk would have an ulcer. After all, a life full of skeet shooting, traveling and being waited on hand and foot must be very stressful.

 

Many ulcers are caused by bacteria, not stress or diet.  Although, of course, doctors in the twenties wouldn't have known that.

[SFoster21]

Ok, I really don't get the broth problem. Take some water, bones, onion, carrot & celery, bay leaf, salt & peppercorns; bring to boil and simmer, then cool and strain. What am I missing?

A really good one takes time. You should cook it for as long as possible. A stockpot goes continuously. You strain that stuff; it's tasteless because the flavor has gone into the water. Then you season your broth and reduce it on the utility cocoa making stove. So you start there in the kitchen, but this character could not start there. That point was made.

The joke is that, to Maggie Smith, the process resembles cocoa making. I dunno; it was funny to me.

Edited March 3, 2015 by SFoster21

[proserpina65]

The whole Denker/broth plot was ridiculous.  Who couldn't put together some kind of palatable broth?  Even with Daisy and Mrs Patrmore helping, the first broth was so unsatisfactory?   And then they gave Denker the ingredients to make a broth and she couldn't pull it off?  Ridiculous beyond belief.  I'm no cook but I believe even I could come up with something edible.  What a waste of screen time.

I'm a pretty good cook, but admit to being intimidated by the very idea of making broth from scratch.  So I don't blame Denker for not being able to make it.  Broth is not actually easy to make if you're an inexperienced cook.

 

{Edited to note that, while I enjoyed seeing Spratt brought down a few pegs, as I've disliked him ever since he screwed up what was basically Moseley's job interview with Lady Whatsername, I could do without the whole Spratt/Denker conflict storyline.}

Edited March 3, 2015 by proserpina65

[txhorns79]

Deserve?  I fail to see Thomas as the bad guy. If people behaved appropriately, there wouldn't be any secrets to expose.

 

I would disagree.  I think you can behave "appropriately," and still have secrets you don't want exposed to a public audience.  Moreover, while obviously Lord Sinderby is something of a hypocrite for throwing a fit over the morality of Rose's parents divorcing, it doesn't mean that his mistress or his child deserve the same kind of public shaming that he might.  

 

 

I'm a pretty good cook, but admit to being intimidated by the very idea of making broth from scratch.  So I don't blame Denker for not being able to make it.  Broth is not actually easy to make if you're an inexperienced cook.

 

I agree.  For an inexperienced cook, it can be difficult to make.  And that doesn't even get into the added pressure of having to make it while being watched and hounded by someone who is openly rooting for you to fail. 

[photo fox]

Guys, this is just a gentle reminder to snark the show, not your fellow posters. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and they're just as valid as yours.

Also, if you find yourself posting the same argument over and over, becoming progressively more heated? Take a breath.

[Constantinople]

Speaking of snark, I usually post what I don't like about the episode.

But I really liked the dinner that Mrs Patmore made for Daisy, Moseley, Bates, Baxter, Carson, Mrs Hughes and herself. It's those small day-in-the-life touches that I feel the series has lost in exchange for always having never ending conflict. Not everything must go on episode after episode, if not season after season (the murdering Bates family, who will Mary marry, will Tom stay or go), or must be some pointless story crammed into one episode to fill time (brothgate).

A few episodes someone posted something similar when discussing the marriage proposal that Mrs Hughes turned down in Season 1 when the fair was visiting the village. It was a relatively simple scene. Mrs. Hughes is telling Carson what happened, which served as narration for the viewers, while we see Mrs. Hughes and her suitor walk around the fair. When she tells Carson that she declined the offer, we see Mrs. Hughes and the suitor in the cemetery by the local church. It was one of the best scenes of the series, but we don't see scenes like that any more.

[Pop Tart]

I've decided the Granthams are the most permissive employers ever. They've got a ladies maid and a valet, both accused murderers, a ladies maid who served time for theft, a gay under-butler (I don't have an issue with this, but at the time it was very illegal), and a butler who has a shady past. Perhaps they should just accept it and open up a half-way house. Isobel could bring back that young woman she tried to help, the former prostitute turned maid, and then Edith could tell the world that Marigold is her daughter.

[jcin617]

So Tom, Rose and Atticus are all moving to the US a little less than 5 years before the onset of the Great Depression;  well, that's one way to get them all back to Downton.

Edited March 3, 2015 by jcin617

[RedHawk]

Looking back over the whole Affair de Kuragin, I think Violet was happiest when the Prince first revealed homself at Downton as she reminised over the fan. She had her memories of him and the passion they shared. Then, as she became reacquainted with him, she saw his flaws and understood how her life might have turned out.

I think she was put off by his cavalier attitude toward his missing wife, and his over-the-top declarations of love and suggestions to "run away" together. Maggie Smith conveyed this, at least it's what I saw. She preferred to "give him back" to his wife amd keep her golden memories along with the pleasure of one last time receiving an "immoral offer".

[RedHawk]

I liked that the season concluded with selling the painting for an excellent price. Cora was likely right that Bricker's writing about it increased its value. I loved her storyline this season and hope JF gives her another good one for S6.

[msblossom]

Cora, Rose, and Lady Sinderby all wore tiaras at dinner on the first night at Brancaster. Are tiaras only worn by married women?

Edited March 3, 2015 by msblossom

[persey]

Cora, Rose, and Lady Sinderby all wore tiaras at dinner on the first night at Brancaster. Are tiaras only worn by married women?

Yes. That includes widows.

Edited March 3, 2015 by persey

[annzeepark914]

I'm calling it: Fellowes has no idea who killed Greene.

I'm back to suspecting Tony Gillingham.  The last we saw of him (when he and his fiancee turned up at Rose's wedding), he gave Mary a long, very intense stare after Mabel turned to leave.  So, IMO, he was probably thinking of all he did to make Mary happy and still she dumped him.  I mean, the creepy Green was dead not long after that luncheon when Mary asked Tony to get rid of Green (w/o giving any reason why).  But if next season's DA takes place 4 years down the road and we don't hear anything about who murdered Green...that's going to make JF look a bit inept as a storyteller.  And surely, by now, JF has heard all the screams and groans about his treatment (and basically, ruination) of the Bates. The first season of DA--everyone seemed to love those two.

[msblossom]

Yes. That includes widows.

Merci beaucoup.

[lottiedottie]

I've decided the Granthams are the most permissive employers ever. They've got a ladies maid and a valet, both accused murderers, a ladies maid who served time for theft, a gay under-butler (I don't have an issue with this, but at the time it was very illegal), and a butler who has a shady past. Perhaps they should just accept it and open up a half-way house. Isobel could bring back that young woman she tried to help, the former prostitute turned maid, and then Edith could tell the world that Marigold is her daughter.

Seriously! All things considered, they could have just let Ethel continue working for Isobel. Who cares about that when you have suspected murderers in your employ? LOL

 

I'm glad this season is over. This was a pretty dull season. Looking forward to 2016, and hope like heck it's the end for this show!

[beeble]

I think Rose's descendants may end up being some type of political operative a la In The Loop. She can defuse a potential scandal in a heartbeat for even the most vile character and have everybody emerge smiling.

[Ina123]

I kept wishing Lucy Ricardo and Ethel would show up and open a can of Campbell's Chicken Broth and have it over.

 

I stay confused about titles. They are "the Granthams" but they are also "the Crawleys". (Showing my American ignorance.)

 

I've been doing a lot of ancestry work on my family. The titles are driving me batty. Lord Grantham, Earl of Grantham, Robert Crawley...etc.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Ina123

[Constantinople]

I've decided the Granthams are the most permissive employers ever. They've got a ladies maid and a valet, both accused murderers, a ladies maid who served time for theft, a gay under-butler (I don't have an issue with this, but at the time it was very illegal), and a butler who has a shady past. Perhaps they should just accept it and open up a half-way house. Isobel could bring back that young woman she tried to help, the former prostitute turned maid, and then Edith could tell the world that Marigold is her daughter.

The valet isn't just an accused murderer, he's a convicted murderer who was sentenced to hang. True the conviction was eventually overturned, but where there's smoke, there's fire. Plus, he also convicted and did time for theft before the the series started.

The under-butler would have been dismissed for stealing wine in Season 1, had he not left service to volunteer for the medical corps at the outset of WWI. Also, in this day and age, his behavior toward the first footman might be construed as sexual harassment or creating a hostile work environment (albeit, one egged on by the former lady's maid).

And let's not forget the chauffeur who married one of their daughters.

[SusanSunflower]

Such a contrivance -- Apparently commercial broth (and dried soup) were available for purchase, although I would imagine a big house like Downton would have constant stock pots for soups and for cooking (adding to sauces, bastes, etc.) and Violet's cook and larder would have access whatever they needed from Mrs. Patmore ... Violet's childhood "perfect broth" was likely the product of the big kitchen of that time with some magical 'hokus pokus" and/or embellishment by her nurse. 

http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodsoups.html

eta: Yes, Denerk's broth was dreadful. Violet's pronouncing it delicious was a loud-and-clear signal to Spratt that Denker was not going anywhere and had, in fact, won ... 

Edited March 3, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[helenamonster]

The agent's name is Bertie Pelham. And Gareth Neame has described him as "not the most exciting character".

 

What an odd thing to say about a character on the show that pays his bills and puts food on his table.

 

I've decided the Granthams are the most permissive employers ever. They've got a ladies maid and a valet, both accused murderers, a ladies maid who served time for theft, a gay under-butler (I don't have an issue with this, but at the time it was very illegal), and a butler who has a shady past. Perhaps they should just accept it and open up a half-way house. Isobel could bring back that young woman she tried to help, the former prostitute turned maid, and then Edith could tell the world that Marigold is her daughter.

 

I don't think Carson's past is shady. Being on the stage was eccentric, especially for him, but not shady. He only hid it because he was ashamed and thought it would make him look like a fool to the family and other staff.

 

I stay confused about titles. They are "the Granthams" but they are also "the Crawleys". (Showing my American ignorance.)

 

I've been doing a lot of ancestry work on my family. The titles are driving me batty. Lord Grantham, Earl of Grantham, Robert Crawley...etc.

 

Grantham is the title. Crawley is the family name.

[Tetraneutron]

What an odd thing to say about a character on the show that pays his bills and puts food on his table.

 

 

I don't think Carson's past is shady. Being on the stage was eccentric, especially for him, but not shady. He only hid it because he was ashamed and thought it would make him look like a fool to the family and other staff.

Yup. The accused murderers were innocent in every instance, which the Crawleys knew. Carson's "shady past" is him being a vaudeville performer. It was looked down on then but hardly shady. And houses did employ gay people. Do you think every gay person before 1970 was unemployed? Sure, they were closeted (Thomas is basically RuPaul by 1920s standards) but they existed back then and I'm sure some of them were high-ranking servants.

 

And their so-called permissiveness gets them an excellent staff, a member of whom is directly responsible for saving the reputation of King and Country.

 

As for Bertie Pelham, I think the show is making the point that that's the kind of guy Edith will have settle for. Like how Strallan was called dull as paint. Contrast that to Talbot with his fast cars, lovely manners, and enough acuity to pick up on the whole Diana situation despite never having met these people before.

[SusanSunflower]

The problem with Merton's sons is that their response to his entreaty that they "make nice" to Isobel is that horrid "no way Jose" letter ... it shows the contempt they have for HIM ... I'm with Isobel ... situation hopeless, time to give up the ship. Better to live single with the convivial companionship of Violet and Dr. Clarkson  than have the shadow of those boys lurking, every holiday, for instance. 

Actually that time gap/leap drove me crazy: How long was it between Isobel getting that letter and her final refusal to Merton? Months? (Robert was reportedly on-the-wagon for months). It was part of why I thought Goode would show up for Christmas -- all that hunting at the beginning of the "special" was months before the Christmas celebration at the end.  

See also, Carson discussing properties with Mrs. Hughes, with the final months later Christmas proposal ... and of course the children, frozen in time, at ages where change -- talking and motor development -- occurs in leaps and bounds, constantly. 

Edited March 3, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[RedHawk]

It was explained. Robert asked why Sybbie calls him Donk and Tom replies it's because of Robert and Sybbie playing pin the tail on the donkey together. After that Robert says that he doesn't want George to catch the habit.

 

Thanks for setting that straight. I only remembered the blank looks most everyone gave him and how I laughed thinking "Because you so obviously are a donk!"

I will hand over the title to my house if Julian Fellowes would create a flashback episode of the Princess/Countess teen-age fight.

 

 

I agree that it would be a very "teen-age" type fight (Princess dragging Violet by the hair!) but whoever said Real Housewives (of the 1870s) is closer in that Violet was around 30 by the time this happened in 1874. (I don't think we have her exact age, but Robert and Rosamund had already been born, and she's maybe 80 in 1924, so born in 1844.)

[beeble]

The problem with Merton's sons is that their response to his entreaty that they "make nice" to Isobel is that horrid "no way Jose" letter ... it shows the contempt they have for HIM ... I'm with Isobel ... situation hopeless, time to give up the ship. Better to live single with the convivial companionship of Violet and Dr. Clarkson  than have the shadow of those boys lurking, every holiday, for instance. 

 

 

I agree. Isobel has a very nice life already: the Crawley family adores her, she has a bestie in Violet, and she never seems to lack for male attention. She certainly doesn't need the money or a place to live so she is set. Merton & sons probably would have insisted that she cut back on her charity work and would have berated her for her sympathy for the downtrodden. The boys are a reflection of the home she would have lived in

[stopeslite]

 

... it shows the contempt they have for HIM ... I'm with Isobel ... situation hopeless, time to give up the ship.

Exactly. And it's a strong signal that Merton himself isn't a great catch - he is at least in part responsible for how they turned out, and he obviously didn't do a very good job.

[RedHawk]

Actually that time gap/leap drove me crazy: How long was it between Isobel getting that letter and her final refusal to Merton? Months? (Robert was reportedly on-the-wagon for months).

 

 

Shooting is an autumn sport, so I thought it might have been late September or early October. Thus Robert was dry for 2-3.5 months.