S01.E14: The Night Lila Died / S01.E15: It's All My Fault

[Chicago Redshirt]

My problem is that the show very clearly telegraphed that Sam and Annalise had a rocky marriage for some time before the Lila affair.  Sam's final words to Annalise were incredibly cruel, and seemed to bookend the downward spiral of their marriage.  So the Sam she got in terms of frozen in time, in addition to the previous months (and however long before), was certainly not some idealized version where he acted the good husband, and was ripped from her.  

 

And ultimately, to me, I didn't understand why her survival instinct would have kicked in before Wes arrived.  You come home alone, and find your husband on the floor, dead - if you loved him so, why wouldn't the first thing you do, out of instinct, is call the police?  She had no idea what her students had done at the time. If you're devastated over his death, still processing, why tell Wes not to be sorry (therefore implying you're not sorry, either)?  And without knowing WHY Wes killed him at that moment?  For all she knew, Sam could have been murdered in malice. I mean, Wes felt remorse for his actions, even though he was keeping Rebecca from being killed, and believed that Sam killed Lila.  Yet Annalise basically reacts, "Hey, don't be sorry.  Let's clean this up and get rid of the body."     

 

I think there's a difference between complexity of emotion within a person and what happened on the show.  I'm fine with complexity of emotions, but that's not what I saw play out on screen.  Plus, despite what TV implies for dramatic purposes, emotions are rather hard to fake.  To me, her emotions often felt like the writers' thought, "Okay, we need Annalise to think this way for this plot point or twist."  And it seems that the show "explained" Annalise's emotional roller-coaster by pathologizing her past, which was a copout to me, as plenty of women have cheated with married men and eventually married them.

 

Someone else has mentioned in other threads that Annalise's emotions about Sam haven't felt earned at times, perhaps ChicagoRedShirt, and I agree.  I was hoping the season would resolve some of this, but not really.  Mostly because we've primarily seen their marriage as stilted, awkward, masked by deception and underlined with affairs by both of them. Annalise's relative indifference to Sam's infidelity and death would have made sense to me based on this (not to mention more interesting), but it felt that the show would have her emotionally break down because Viola can act vs anything coherent within the story about Sam/Annalise's love.      

 

I think that we've been told enough about Anna's background with and without Sam to see her relationship with Sam as complicated. 

From what I'm remembering/intuiting:

 

1. She seemingly didn't have her dad in her life. At least, there was no mention of him that I can remember, and her mom seemed like a single mom.

2. She was the victim of childhood sexual abuse at the hands of her uncle.

3. She thought that her mom didn't care about her.

4. She had issues with being poor/poorish.

5. Anna is convinced overall she's a horrible person

6. She had been seeing Sam to deal with at least some of these issues and possibly others.

7. Sam was one of the first people to see her (at least, in her mind) as a real person worthy and deserving of love.

8. On getting married, she earned disapproval from her mother and Sam's sister (and possibly others)

9. Sam started cheating on her.

10. A lot of circumstantial evidence started piling up suggesting Sam murdered a woman.

11. Sam lied to her. A lot.

12. There are gender/race dynamics at play as well

13. Sam was truly awful when last they spoke

14. And yet, she did love him despite all that.

 

I won't pretend to fully understand what might be going through the mind of an abused woman. But it at least makes sense to me that there would be a combination of relief, sadness, guilt and other emotions on the mind of Anna on finding the body. There also might be the cold-bloodness and calculation as to what might happen to her. After all, the first suspect in a killing is going to be the spouse. And in her case, where an affair was recently discovered, where there was a voicemail about the fight they just got in, and where Sam was a suspect in another murder (and where the Philly PD probably have an ax to grind against her for blowing them up in court repeatedly), I could see her not wanting to trust them. As she said in the latest episode, it's a question of whose story makes the most sense, and "Angry wife decides to kill husband during/after fight with him about his affair with murder victim" is a pretty good story. 

[April Bloodgate]

A lot of posters have been saying that they thought the show was telegraphing that Bonnie killed Lila. I didn't get that at all. The only thing I can think of is the scene with Bonnie telling Lila to leave, which we'd seen before. What other things did you guys notice that made you think it was going to be Bonnie?

 

I know that nobody really cares about the COTW, but this has been bothering me. The priest on trial said he wouldn't testify about the dead priest being a rapist because he wouldn't break his vows with regard to the sanctity of the confessional. But he already did so by telling Annalise and her team. If he's already broken the vow by telling her, what difference does it make if he uses it to save himself?

[Rustybones]

I think the cops would have discovered some traces of blood on the floor where Sam was killed.  I've watched enough crime shows to know that using chemicals like bleach will not completely remove all the blood, especially with luminol.  Also when the cops found the scales from the statue on the floor after Sam was killed why didn't they put two and two together? Bonnie simply said they must have come from the statue, and the cops thought nothing of it.   Columbo would have known that immediately.

[wanderingstar]

Random thoughts after a re-watch:

-I love that Michaela quoted a court case in her argument for why she should keep her engagement ring. Ha!

-Did they at least give Rebecca food and drink while they were holding her captive?

-My money is on Laurel as Rebecca's killer.

-I really liked these episodes - esp. the second one.

-When Annalise says, "We're not monsters; we don't tie people up and hold them against their will," I cannot believe that Rebecca didn't say, "Uh, yeah you do."

-The case of the week was the weakest part of the finale, BUT I think it was supposed to mirror the mindsets of the main characters. Fr. Crawford felt he was justified in killing that other priest. Annalise and the K4 have been justifying Sam's killing to themselves all these weeks.

-Poor Rudy. What Rebecca did to him really was cruel. Is this the last we've seen of him?

-And Poor Nate. That guy's been through the ringer. If he gets off for Sam's murder, he should probably move far away from Annalise. But he should still be shirtless.

-The final montage really is great. Now what, indeed!

 

Sam was a despicable person -- a murderer and a philander -- and he "deserved to die," but that doesn't mean Annalise didn't love him. I can absolutely buy her reaction -- it felt very human to me.

 

IA. Annalise & Sam seemed to have had a complicated relationship, but that doesn't mean they didn't love each other.

It's the kind of shading and complexity I very rarely see from women characters on TV. Women are usually either good or evil. But Annalise is like all those complex anti-heroes who've always been men. She's ruthless and calculating...but she still has emotions and weaknesses.

 

 

Yep. The character Annalise most reminds me of is Don Draper.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Gillian Rosh

[helenamonster]

When Bonnie broke down in tears and told Annalise that Sam knew Lila was pregnant, was her only evidence Lila crying and saying Sam can't hide it anymore?  My first thought would have been that "it" was an affair, not a pregnancy.

 

The two scenes (Lila coming to the Keatings' and Bonnie breaking down to Annalise) happened months apart. Lila's visit to the house happened the night she died. It wasn't clear to Bonnie then what exactly was going on, except that it probably had something to do with her and Sam having an affair, which is why she lied to Annalise and said that Lila was there for Frank. The scene where Bonnie is on her knees and crying took place the night Sam was killed. It had been revealed via the second autopsy that Lila was pregnant, and Sam was swearing up and down that he hadn't known. But then he basically admitted to Bonnie that he did know, playing on what he presumed were her feelings for him that she'd keep quiet and not go to Annalise. Bonnie put five and seven together and realized that that was why Lila had come to the house back in August.

 

I think my speculation from the first episode that Rebecca was the one to call the cops and report issues with the sorority water tank has panned out. It didn't seem like any of the actual sorority members had called, and Rebecca was the only one (besides Frank and I guess Sam) to know Lila's body was in there.

 

I've decided that while I liked Michaela's speech to her ex-future MIL, the accent totally took me out of it and was the reason I couldn't appreciate it the first time. They either need to get Aja Naomi King an accent coach or never make her do that again. It was truly awful and ruined what was otherwise a great little monologue.

[bantering]

I want to know if Michaela's ex-fiance's mother always knew her son was gay/bi, or if she  has  only just figured it now. If it's the former, I'm wondering why she wasn't nicer to Michaela earlier on!

[starri]

I want to know if Michaela's ex-fiance's mother always knew her son was gay/bi, or if she  has  only just figured it now. If it's the former, I'm wondering why she wasn't nicer to Michaela earlier on!

The difference was Michaela being aware of Aiden's less-than-straight proclivities.  Being in the dark, Monster-in-law had a lot more to leverage into making sure the marriage was set up to Michaela's disadvantage.  With Michaela knowing about it, she was a little more desperate to secure Aiden a beard.

[nutty1]

After reading the interview with Pete Nowalk, some thing became clearer to me, especially about Frank & Sam, and was it really Frank who Sam called.

 

Will we find out what Frank owed Sam?
Yes, for sure. That is a very big favor, and we would be mistaken not to answer that question for the audience.

Edited February 28, 2015 by nutty1

[jjj]

Eggs 911! Forgot about that too. Really curious where on earth that's going to go. (Dear Scoobies: a reverse number search isn't perfect, but it's a good option to try here at some point.)

"Eggs" has to be some kind of identification for Rebecca, because she was calling from Miceala's phone, and the recipient would not know who the call was from.  And "911" for "help!"  She also added "lawyer's house," so the person has to know about Annaliese.  But who does Rebecca even know to ask for help at this point?  She has been so isolated.  The team has a lot of telephone numbers Rebecca could call, like Nate's, or Lila's boyfriend (so unlikely, but I'm thinking of numbers she knows, for people who know about Annaliese). 

[Tek]

I think the cops would have discovered some traces of blood on the floor where Sam was killed.  I've watched enough crime shows to know that using chemicals like bleach will not completely remove all the blood, especially with luminol.  Also when the cops found the scales from the statue on the floor after Sam was killed why didn't they put two and two together? Bonnie simply said they must have come from the statue, and the cops thought nothing of it.   Columbo would have known that immediately.

TV shows exaggerate what luminol does and how prevalent it's used. Luminol destroys blood samples, as it contains Hydrogen Peroxide, which will destroy blood cells (don't believe me? Use it to clean a rag you've used on a bloody nose or if you've ever "leaked" during a period).  Bleach will cause luminol to glow as well. Not saying that there wouldn't be any spatter, but real cops don't run around dosing everything in luminol in hopes they find something, it's used after you know there will be blood somewhere to try and find additional evidence.

[Luffy69843]

I see I wasn't the only one dissapointed with the season finale.

The characters actions were so incredibly stupid that it really hurt the show credibility.

Would a man really premeditate the murder of his mistress to save a rocky marriage. It would've have been believable if Sam killed Lila in a moment of rage. Lila couldn't really hurt him. Would his friends, employers, relatives cared that much he had a mistress ? And once he decided to go for it, wouldn't he strongly recommend to his hitman to get rid of every evidence ? Tab, cellphone, Laptop, anything which could have private messages linking him to a murder victim? Would he keep emails from her on his unlock phone ? Would he also try to kill Rebecca in front of witnesses ?

Would a hitman really chose to commit murder in a place he didn't know where the victim could have been seen with Sam ?

He would know better that to leave a phone behind. He would know he couldn't justify his precence in a sonority house. He would kill her somewhere discreet and hewould try to get rid of the body.

Also Rebecca knew she was legally bond with Annalise and abled to tell her the truth without any consequences. Would she really play the provocative card when 5 people who could go to jail are confronting her ?

The acting was great, I loved it but it just made no sense.

[Nanrad]

Annalise, on the other hand, acted with calculation, evil intent, and complete self-interest.  She knew perfectly well she did not kill Sam, and there would have been no forensic evidence to prove otherwise.  This is also a woman who's first impulse when finding her husband severely injured or dead was to sit down and do nothing. 

 

I don't really care that Sam lied to her - she was lying to him as well.  And the fact remains that she was scrambling to cover up his crime, even knowing he was guilty.  I know she claims she wanted to protect the students, but I don't buy it.  She doesn't even like them.  Maybe if it turned out she was Wes' mother I'd be more willing to believe it.  The fact is, she was well into her plan of covering things up before Wes ever walked back into the house and inadvertently confessed in front of her.  So she frames her lover, someone she has feelings for and whose wife is terminally ill, to protect her first years students whom she hardly knows.  Makes no sense to me.

Personally, I saw Annalise sitting down and doing nothing was her being in shock. And, actually, her first reaction was screaming and crying, I believe, when she found Sam on the floor. (I could be wrong). Because, by that, point, she'd been though a lot of shit with Sam and trying to protect him to get to the bottom of things and he lied to her every step of the way, until he was confronted with undeniable facts. 

 

Annalise didn't know he was guilty of the murder, but he was guilty of having an affair, which he'd been lying about. Regardless if there is any forensics on Sam or not, Annalise could still be arrested and tried for the murder of Sam because of their tumultuous marriage. Especially because there aren't any other suspects as well. They could also say that she was the mastermind behind it if they found out her students did it. 

[NewRadical]

 

And ultimately, to me, I didn't understand why her survival instinct would have kicked in before Wes arrived.  You come home alone, and find your husband on the floor, dead - if you loved him so, why wouldn't the first thing you do, out of instinct, is call the police?  She had no idea what her students had done at the time. If you're devastated over his death, still processing, why tell Wes not to be sorry (therefore implying you're not sorry, either)?  And without knowing WHY Wes killed him at that moment?  For all she knew, Sam could have been murdered in malice. I mean, Wes felt remorse for his actions, even though he was keeping Rebecca from being killed, and believed that Sam killed Lila.  Yet Annalise basically reacts, "Hey, don't be sorry.  Let's clean this up and get rid of the body."     

 

I took it as Annalise probably assuming that person who killed Sam was probably someone she cared about like Nate or Frank. Most murders are committed by people you know, and with the everything going, it would be awfully coincidental that some random person broke in and killed Sam.

 

[RedheadZombie]

Responding in Annalise's thread.

[Donny Ketchum]

The sad thing about Lila's death is that if Bonnie hadn't turned her away that night, she probably might've lived.

[RedheadZombie]

I haven't seen anyone comment on this, but was Lila poised on the roof ready to jump when Griffin came looking for her?  And since Griffin was desperately looking for her and called her twenty eight times, did he actually care for her in some way?

[LeGrandElephant]

Ok, so Rebecca didn't kill Lila. But drugging Rudy knowing it could/would permanently destroy his mind? That's not a whole lot better. I can't feel all that bad for her.

Whatever drug she gave him, is that a real thing that can really do that?

[April Bloodgate]

"Eggs" has to be some kind of identification for Rebecca, because she was calling from Miceala's phone, and the recipient would not know who the call was from.  And "911" for "help!"  She also added "lawyer's house," so the person has to know about Annaliese.  But who does Rebecca even know to ask for help at this point?  She has been so isolated.  The team has a lot of telephone numbers Rebecca could call, like Nate's, or Lila's boyfriend (so unlikely, but I'm thinking of numbers she knows, for people who know about Annaliese). 

Didn't she say at one point that she had a contact at the police station (maybe a friend of her brother)? I can't remember the exact details, but she knows something about the investigation into Sam's murder through this contact. So that could be who she texted.

[bantering]

After reading the interview with Pete Nowalk, some thing became clearer to me, especially about Frank & Sam, and was it really Frank who Sam called.

 

Will we find out what Frank owed Sam?

Yes, for sure. That is a very big favor, and we would be mistaken not to answer that question for the audience.

 

I figure Sam really did call Frank (or Bonnie who called Frank?) because it makes no sense to me that he'd say to Analise "You owe me." Who says that to their wife?

Edited March 1, 2015 by bantering

[ShellsandCheese]

I actually don't think Sam called Frank. I think that was a coincidence and classic misdirection. Both Bonnie and Frank are fiercely loyal to Annalise and we've seen throughout the series that both are more than willing to do questionable and downright illegal things for Annallise. I think Bonnie told Frank about Lila, and that Frank killed Lila. I actually don't think Sam had anything to do with that. I think Bonnie called Frank after Lila left, Frank went to the soror house and he killed Lila once Sam departed. Just my theory.

 

As for Rebecca. Aside from Frank killing Lila, I think she is the one primarily responsible for the entire mess. I was done with her when she insuinated that Nate had killed Lila. Same reason why I cannot deal with Laurel, of all of the interens she was the one most gung ho about basically letting an innocent man go down for something that he clearly did not know. In constrast, my respect and like for Michaela grew immensely because she was the only one who was really concerned about Nate taking the fall for their actions.

 

Back to Rebecca, no sympathy. She was an awful human being (not that she deserved to get murdered), but actions have consequences.

[ShowsILoveToHate]

I don't know if this was mentioned or not, but I just rewatched the episode and paused on the phone numbers that Lila sent the text message to, and the phone number on the slip of paper that Annalise gave to Nate to call.

 

Lila's text was to a "215" area code which is Philadelphia, so that can be anyone in their area.

 

Nate's call to the mystery person was a "212" area code which is New York City.

 

Do we (the audience) know anyone in NYC?  I know they showed the students going home for the holidays; Asher's father is a lawyer, do they live in NY?

[cooksdelight]

What happened to Marcia Gay Harden in this episode? If anyone should have been lurking in the bushes to see what's really going on, it's her. I cannot believe she didn't make an appearance.

[HalcyonDays]

What happened to Marcia Gay Harden in this episode? If anyone should have been lurking in the bushes to see what's really going on, it's her. I cannot believe she didn't make an appearance.

 

I'm glad she didn't make an appearance. MGH is a good actress, but her character in this show grated on my nerves. The show didn't need her "They are all MURDERERS! Arrest THEM!" fingerpointing all episode long.

[nb360]

Regarding EGGS 911, someone commented on the EW.com site:

 

• Kathy: If you look at EGGS 911 upside down, it's 116 5663.

[venusnv80]

Loved the finale and the show really gives me the twists and turns that Scandal used to. I was surprised about Lila's murderer, but it works for me. I was doubly excited about Rebecca's murder...two birds in one week counting Sleepy Hollow. 

 

Can't wait until next season, I debate on whether I want to see them in class more BUT I went to law school, still have the nightmares--I don't need to see it on screen again (even though that class is much better than my Criminal Law class). 

[Nanrad]

The sad thing about Lila's death is that if Bonnie hadn't turned her away that night, she probably might've lived.

There were a lot of things Lila could've done that would've prevented her death: Bonnie actually listening to her, not threatening Sam to tell Annalise about the pregnancy/repeatedly calling him, meeting him on the roof (and staying there), etc. Going back further: not getting the abortion or, hell, not becoming involved with a married man who is her professor and expressed no interest in leaving his wife, especially when she pushed. 

 

The sad thing about Lila's death is that she was naive and gullible. She should've suspected that getting involved with a married man wasn't going to end well, but I don't think she should've suspected he'd have her murdered. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

"Would a man really premeditate the murder of his mistress to save a rocky marriage. Lila couldn't really hurt him. Would his friends, employers, relatives cared that much he had a mistress ?"

 

Pretty sure that it happens with some frequency in the real world.

 

If Annalise knows, she could decide to divorce him. Divorce when a partner has been unfaithful could result in him losing both social standing and half his stuff.

 

Also, it wouldn't just be to save his rocky marriage. Most universities these days frown on professors having sex with and impregnating students. If it got out that Sam had done so, he loses his chance for a job at Yale AND his current job.

 

Edited to add: There was also the matter of him being on the hook for baby Sam Jr. or Samantha for the next 18 years, since Lila was refusing to have an abortion. 

 

So yes, Lila could hurt him, and yes, some people would see all that as enough reason to kill.

 

"And once he decided to go for it, wouldn't he strongly recommend to his hitman to get rid of every evidence ? Tab, cellphone, Laptop, anything which could have private messages linking him to a murder victim?"

 

Who knows what he told Frank, or if Frank was uncharacteristically sloppy. 

 

"Would he keep emails from her on his unlock phone ?"

 

People are stupidly sentimental some times. He may have actually had feelings for Lila and was reluctant to delete the messages.

 

"Would he also try to kill Rebecca in front of witnesses ?"

 

I suppose crazier things have happened in real life.

 

"Also Rebecca knew she was legally bond with Annalise and abled to tell her the truth without any consequences. Would she really play the provocative card when 5 people who could go to jail are confronting her ?"

 

Rebecca has little reason to trust Annalise, knowing that Sam was Lila's lover. It seemingly is in Rebecca's nature to make rash and irrational decisions. She is after all a drug dealer, and possibly/probably a drug user.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Chicago Redshirt

[Bort]

"Who knows what he told Frank, or if Frank was uncharacteristically sloppy. 

Frank was characteristically sloppy. He once planted evidence in someone's car in broad friggin daylight and of course got caught.

[truthaboutluv]

Glad you brought this up because that is the very thing that sort of made me not buy the big "Frank murdered Lila" twist. I thought back to that sloppy mistake and couldn't reconcile that guy, who would make such an amateur mistake with cold bloodily choking a girl to death while staring her in the eyes the entire time. It definitely made me believe that Frank was not the planned murderer from the start and this was a decision the producers/writers made later. 

[shapeshifter]

I feel like they're going to need to flesh Frank out a lot more next season because now, IMO, they've reduced him to a basic cartoon henchman to be used to close plot holes....

A few weaknesses in the various plot twists:...

3.  The roof was pretty popular.  e.g. Rebecca and the other sorority girls were up there around 2 am. Which makes it a very risky place for Frank to commit the murder.  The foot traffic meant someone could walk up there and see him. In fact, Rebecca and the sisters couldn't have missed him by much....

While watching Frank killing Lila, I was imagining him having to keep killing and throwing more and more bodies in the water tank as witnesses wandered up there. On the list of reasons Sam deserved to die would be hiring a bad henchman. Heck, at this point, they might as well all just file up to the sorority roof and get in line. Then Frank can hop in after them.

[Dejana]

Ok, so Rebecca didn't kill Lila. But drugging Rudy knowing it could/would permanently destroy his mind? That's not a whole lot better. I can't feel all that bad for her.

Whatever drug she gave him, is that a real thing that can really do that?

 

Bath salts? Everyone who takes them doesn't have such a bad reaction from just one hit, but they are not good:

 

Possible side effects and complications of even low doses of bath salts abuse include rapid heart rate, chest pain, high blood pressure, agitation, hallucinations, paranoia, and delirium. The agitation and delirium can last for days. Other risks of using these drugs, particularly with overdose, include liver failure, seizures, heart attack, brain swelling, and severe fever (hyperthermia). Emotional complications of bath salts abuse can include panic attacks and violence against oneself (suicidal thoughts or actions, or self-mutilation, as in cutting or burning oneself). The bath salts abuser may develop thoughts, attempts, or acts of homicide or violence against others. Deaths from the medical problems associated with bath salts have been known to occur as well.

 

I think Rebecca was just hoping to make Rudy an unreliable witness at the worst, not do permanent damage to him. For all the guilt she felt, it didn't stop her from stealing the money from his Christmas card (someone asked a few weeks ago who sends cash in the mail anymore; some of us still have old-school relatives).

 

I guess if Frank knew he was going to kill Lila, it didn't matter if she saw his face or not.

[Haleth]

Go figure.  Of all the people I suspected of killing Lila Sam was the one I thought was innocent.  Well played, show.

[Azaelia]

Someone mentioned that Laurel seemed like she was shaping to be the innocent one at first, and whether it was all an act. I wanted to add to that and ask if maybe they changed mid-writing/filming? Because she definitely came across as a bit Pollyannish at first, especially when she answered the question for Wes and when Bonnie gave her the "I'm not a nice person' speech.

 

 OTOH, there are people who play up a "good girl/guy" persona to get what they want. This isn't to say she's been completely manipulative all along - it's possible the turn of events just brought out that side in her even further. But she clearly knows how to work people, given that she orchestrated a family feud so she could leave at Christmas. While they wouldn't murder people (I'd hope!), I do know of people who play up their nicer/quieter sides because they know they can get away with things someone else might not.  So my verdict (heh) is either that they changed the direction of her character while filming, or she was never as innocent as she seemed.

 

As far as Rebecca goes, I don't really feel sorry for her either. I actually liked her enough at first, but in a way what she did to Rudy was worse than murder. And it's not like it was even an accidental overdose of drugs she gave him for a diversion - she knew the possible consequences. 

Edited March 1, 2015 by Azaelia

[helenamonster]

Also, whatever Rebecca gave Rudy had a bad reaction with whatever anxiety medication he was on. It's possible that whatever it was wouldn't have damaged him that bad on his own, but she knew he was on other meds and I think was counting on the fact that they wouldn't mix well.

[Mabinogia]

it's possible the turn of events just brought out that side in her even further. But she clearly knows how to work people, given that she orchestrated a family feud so she could leave at Christmas.

 

 

This is my take on Laurel. She is quiet, but always aware. Still waters run deep with this one, and the murder kind of awoke her inner sociopath if you will. She's always had it in her but never had to tap into that side of her, sticking with mild manipulation like the holiday dinner. But this one is certainly the coldest of the bunch. She's analytical and, like I said, an observer. I think she's most like Bonnie. Quiet, seems insignificant but fully capable of destroying a person if need be.

 

I do think what Rebecca did to Rudy is worse than murder. He's trapped in purgatory.

 

I believe/hope, that what we saw is what we get. Sam ordered Frank to kill Lila and now we're done with that convoluted plot. Let's move on to who killed Rebecca and how the gang deal with the law breathing down their necks regarding Sam's murder. This isn't "who got away with murder" it's "how to get away with murder", so let's see how they will get away with it.

[wanderingstar]

Because she definitely came across as a bit Pollyannish at first, especially when she answered the question for Wes and when Bonnie gave her the "I'm not a nice person' speech.

 

 

I remember when Annalise was defending that kid that shot his abusive father, Laurel was excited that they had a client who wasn't reprehensible. That said, she was the one who stealthily let the jury in that same case know about nullification. So, Laurel started out a goody-two-shoes, but I guess, to your point, Azaelia, in the right circumstances, she's willing to bend/break the rules, as well as resort to intimidation and lying to get her way (she's basically been the enforcer for the K4 since Sam's death and the subsequent cover-up, making sure everyone in the group toes the line).

[starri]

She was also the only one of the four to seem to keep her head over the murder.  Wes seemed shell-shocked, mostly following Annalise's orders, Connor and Michaela both lost their minds, Connor earlier and then Michaela when she missed her engagement ring.  So yes, I don't think Laurel was ever as naive as we all thought.

[NewRadical]

I am still not sold on Laurel the sociopath angle.

I thought the outburst at Christmas could have just been kid knowing how to push her parents buttons. Especially one tired of being ignored. So it could have been her coming into sociopathy or just her coming out of her shell.

I am not entirely convinced she was encouraging Frank to kill Rebecca; when I first watched it, it seemed more like she was trying to figure out what was the plan. I don't think jumping to "Frank might murder her" was that far of a leap since they all had Rebecca tired up in h basement.

But I do think she isn't as naive as she intially came across and she is certainly the one of the four who has kept it together the best, so that in it's self might lend to sociopathic tendencies. I am interested to see what they do with Laurel next year.

Edited March 1, 2015 by NewRadical

[jjj]

In an ideal world, Wes would never find out that Rebecca was murdered in the basement; he would think she ran away to a new life, like our illusions that cats that disappear have found new happy homes, instead of...never mind.  But the plot will call for him to learn that truth, and based on his fetal curl at the end of this episode, it might put him in a state like Rudy.  Unless he did it, because with these writers, who knows where they will go. 

[possibilities]

RE identifying yourself on the phone, and why anyone would do it: I think this is a generational thing. I'm 49. I grew up in the time of landlines before cell phones or voice mail or even answering machines existed. Also, no caller ID. I was taught that the first thing you do after someone answers the phone and says hello is say who you are. We did it when calling family members. It's like a reflex. Even now, when I usually screen all my calls, and know the person I'm calling is doing the same, I always say my name when someone answers. I admit that if I was calling for an illegal purpose, I imagine I'd be able to over-ride the impulse to identify myself by name, but Sam didn't really say anything illegal in his phone call, he just said the person owed him and should do what they'd talked about. Innocuous enough.

 

My guess is that what Frank owed Sam is that Sam got him the job with Annalise, and probably covered up something Frank had done that either Annalise didn't know about, or which she did know about and helped defend Frank against getting caught for. I'm pretty sure Annalise and Bonnie both have something that serious on Frank, because there's no way Annalise confides in him the way she does if she doesn't have leverage like that. And Bonnie stated clearly that she knows about Frank stuff he doesn't want revealed. Also, Frank strangled Lila like someone who knew how, and had done it before. You can't lie as well as he does, and murder someone with your bare hands like that, if you don't have at least a little history and experience preparing you for it. Even Annalise, who has experience dealing with nefarious deeds, was showing stress all season. Frank acted like nothing ever bothered him at all. Well-rested and completely cool was he, while everyone else (except Rebecca) was showing varying degrees of major stress and/or breaking down completely.

 

Even Laurel, who was the second calmest person, felt a need to monitor and control stuff. She wasn't anywhere near as relaxed as Frank was; in fact, he kept telling her to stop acting so rattled.

 

Asher for that matter, the only person who had no clue what was going on, could often tell that SOMETHING was up, and was rattled by the atmosphere. I give him a pass for not having the imagination to figure out it was murder.

 

But Frank knew. And he still stayed totally calm and unruffled at all times.

 

I can't forgive what Rebecca did to Rudy, and even more than that, her lack of anguish about it really destroys her in my eyes. She never seemed to lose sleep, even. And she was tracking Wes, so she never did trust him and she was always looking for a plan (she had the rug witness in the wings damn fast when she needed him, for example). I can understand that she was alone and damaged. But it seems to me that she was not entirely alone, if she had a friend at the police station and was in friendly contact with her brother. Either way, she seemed to be too damaged to be redeemed if she was so untroubled by the destruction of Rudy. Even when she said "I'm a terrible person" when describing what she did to him, she didn't seem to have any emotion behind it; it was like she knew it was the sort of thing she'd be judged for, so she said so-- but in a dismissive tone. I totally get why she doesn't trust, and why she was scared of Rudy reporting on her. But her lack of remorse all season is unforgivable.

 

I have a feeling Rudy doesn't even know about Lila's murder. His mind was destroyed the night it happened, long before she was known to be missing, and he's been in lock up and apparently gibbering ever since.

 

I like that it's actually the conscience of the K4 that unravels their plans. Even Laurel was on board with Wes's investigations of Rebecca. She could have been lobbying him to leave it alone, but she wasn't.

 

HIV may not be the death sentience it used to be, but no one wants to have it, either. I think they gave it to Oliver instead of Connor as a PSA for condom use for everyone, and so they wouldn't come off as slut-shaming Connor for sleeping around. I don't know what they have planned for next season, but they have done a pretty compelling job with the Oliver-Connor relationship so far, so I'm hoping they will pay it off in a satisfying way next season. Honestly, for me, the Connor-Oliver connection has been my favorite part of the show-- and that is completely unexpected, and hard to even justify, so I'm allowing myself to be optimistic.

[NewRadical]

 

I can't forgive what Rebecca did to Rudy, and even more than that, her lack of anguish about it really destroys her in my eyes. She never seemed to lose sleep, even. And she was tracking Wes, so she never did trust him and she was always looking for a plan (she had the rug witness in the wings damn fast when she needed him, for example). I can understand that she was alone and damaged. But it seems to me that she was not entirely alone, if she had a friend at the police station and was in friendly contact with her brother. Either way, she seemed to be too damaged to be redeemed if she was so untroubled by the destruction of Rudy. Even when she said "I'm a terrible person" when describing what she did to him, she didn't seem to have any emotion behind it; it was like she knew it was the sort of thing she'd be judged for, so she said so-- but in a dismissive tone. I totally get why she doesn't trust, and why she was scared of Rudy reporting on her. But her lack of remorse all season is unforgivable.

I am not sure sure she was okay with what she did to Rudy. She seemed to just being trying to block it out. I am guessing it did probably eat at her, which is why she refused to talk about it.

As for what Rebecca did to Rudy, while Rebecca definitely played a part, Rudy chose to take the drugs. This wasn't a child; this was a law student. He should have known better than to just take some unknown drugs from a neighbour he didn't know. He is far more responsible for his situation imo. 

 

Edited March 2, 2015 by NewRadical

[ShadowSixx]

Finally caught up to the last 3 episodes that I missed. Thank goodness for Hulu lol.

 

At first I was thinking that Bonnie was going to be Lila's killer, based off her looks and stone cold demeanor. It seems that she'll do just about anything for Annalise. She could be Rebecca's killer, there's just something off about Bonnie.

 

Find out that Frank is the killer and kind of gave him away with his "hitman" comment when talking to Laurel. So Laurel just might wanna watch out when it comes to Frank or distance herself from him as much as possible, but then again she has a family that seems to have some connections. Frank's job and connection to Annalise or Sam was never explained or job title. I always thought he was just an ADA or part of the legal team which doesn't seem to be the case. I wonder how he owed Sam to the point to where he has to kill Lila for him. 

 

I also loved Michaela quoting the law as to why she can keep the ring. I'm glad that she loves herself enough not to get involved with a bi/gay man for appearances only. She may be looked at as Rebecca's killer because she threatened to ruin her if she doesn't tell the truth and how she also grabbed Rebecca's face. She did threaten to ruin Aiden as well, so we don't know what she's fully capable of or the extent she'll go to to protect herself even though she's viewed as one of the first to crack. She also was adamant on not wanting Rebecca to leave or be untied and wanting to pin it on her, but Michaela could end up being a red herring.

 

When in fact Connor is the first to crack, since he's the first one who wanted to go the police after Sam's death. I doubt Connor is capable of murder though, he'll go with the flow as long as he's protected for the most part. Connor and Oliver's testing reminded me of the movie Kids when Rosario Dawson and her friend went to get tested and while Rosario Dawson's character been with a whole bunch of people and at times unprotected she was negative but her friend who lost her virginity to one guy was positive. So wonder how Connor will deal on whether or not he wants to continue to pursue a relationship with him.

 

I need to know what connection Anni and Wes have, because she coddles him more than she does the others. I can't say it's a family connection because wouldn't Anni's mother have recognized him when she first seen him in Anni's bedroom and told him to get out.

Thank goodness Rebecca is dead, was she ever annoying. So whoever killed her gets a round of applause from me. She's boring and talked way too damn fast.

Edited March 2, 2015 by ShadowSixx

[possibilities]

It's true Rudy took the drugs, but I thought Rebecca told him it was marijuana, not PCP + bath salts. A world of difference there.

[Bort]

It's true Rudy took the drugs, but I thought Rebecca told him it was marijuana, not PCP + bath salts. A world of difference there.

What? You mean Rudy shouldn't be surprised that the scuzzy drug dealer was dishonest?

(I swear I'm not attacking you, I'm just trying to be funny and didn't want the tone to seem harsh.)

[Neurochick]

If Rebecca lied to Rudy about what the drugs were, she's pond scum to me.  If a man gave a young woman drugs that cooked her brain, people would be calling for his head.

 

My guess is that what Frank owed Sam is that Sam got him the job with Annalise, and probably covered up something Frank had done that either Annalise didn't know about, or which she did know about and helped defend Frank against getting caught for.

 

 

I was thinking about this.  Sam was a psychologist and I have a feeling that he might have had a hand in picking out Annalise's staff.  I found it interesting that Bonnie and Annalise came from messed up families, that's what Frank told Asher when they were at that bar during the holidays.  The fact that Frank was in the bar with Asher made me wonder what Frank's relationship is with his family.  I wonder that since Sam knew Annalise's issues, if he purposely picked two people who came from equally damaged situations, which could be why both Bonnie and Frank seem to devoted to Annalise; they call came from damaged places and have become a de facto family.  

Edited March 2, 2015 by Neurochick

[LeGrandElephant]

I am not sure sure she was okay with what she did to Rudy. She seemed to just being trying to block it out. I am guessing it did probably eat at her, which is why she refused to talk about it.

As for what Rebecca did to Rudy, while Rebecca definitely played a part, Rudy chose to take the drugs. This wasn't a child; this was a law student. He should have known better than to just take some unknown drugs from a neighbour he didn't know. He is far more responsible for his situation imo. 

She deliberately lied to him about what kind of drugs they were. She said they would help him relax, implying it was pot or similar (I forget if she specifically said pot, but that's what it sounded like to me when she was describing it). In retrospect he shouldn't have trusted her, but that doesn't make it his fault and certainly doesn't make it more his fault than hers. That's like blaming the victim of a date rape for thinking they were drinking alcohol and actually getting alcohol plus roofie. 

 

I don't buy that it ate at her. If she felt bad about it she could have done things to mitigate it, like telling his grandmother where he was, and anonymously telling the psych hospital what he took, which could potentially help them figure out how to help him. 

Edited March 2, 2015 by LeGrandElephant

[helenamonster]

RE identifying yourself on the phone, and why anyone would do it: I think this is a generational thing. I'm 49. I grew up in the time of landlines before cell phones or voice mail or even answering machines existed. Also, no caller ID. I was taught that the first thing you do after someone answers the phone and says hello is say who you are. We did it when calling family members. It's like a reflex. Even now, when I usually screen all my calls, and know the person I'm calling is doing the same, I always say my name when someone answers. I admit that if I was calling for an illegal purpose, I imagine I'd be able to over-ride the impulse to identify myself by name, but Sam didn't really say anything illegal in his phone call, he just said the person owed him and should do what they'd talked about. Innocuous enough.

 

Sam only identified himself because he was calling from a payphone.

[NewRadical]

She deliberately lied to him about what kind of drugs they were. She said they would help him relax, implying it was pot or similar (I forget if she specifically said pot, but that's what it sounded like to me when she was describing it). In retrospect he shouldn't have trusted her, but that doesn't make it his fault and certainly doesn't make it more his fault than hers. That's like blaming the victim of a date rape for thinking they were drinking alcohol and actually getting alcohol plus roofie. 

 

I think there is a such a world a difference between drugging someone without their knowledge and giving someone a drug and them willingly taking it. I rewatched it, she gave him the drug (purple x), he never inquired as to what it was. She never identified it.

I am not saying she is without fault, she definitely has fault. But she did say the drug was fairly knew to her, though she did say she knew it could have terrible consequences if you took too much. That being said most drugs have serious consequences if you take too much. Something else Rudy should have been aware.

Rudy is not without blame. Taking drugs from the coked out drug dealing neighbour without any questions is beyond stupid and he should have known better.

I think of it akin to a drug dealer selling drugs laced with something. Yes, they are at fault, however the person taking the drug is ultimately responsible for their own actions and should have knowledge that lacing of drugs is a possibility, and taking illegal drugs is always dangerous, especially from someone you do not know at all.

Edited March 2, 2015 by NewRadical

[Nanrad]

I think there is a such a world a difference between drugging someone without their knowledge and giving someone a drug and them willingly taking it. I rewatched it, she gave him the drug (purple x), he never inquired as to what it was. She never identified it.

I am not saying she is without fault, she definitely has fault. But she did say the drug was fairly knew to her, though she did say she knew it could have terrible consequences if you took too much. That being said most drugs have serious consequences if you take too much. Something else Rudy should have been aware.

Rudy is not without blame. Taking drugs from the coked out drug dealing neighbour without any questions is beyond stupid and he should have known better.

I think of it akin to a drug dealer selling drugs laced with something. Yes, they are at fault, however the person taking the drug is ultimately responsible for their own actions and should have knowledge that lacing of drugs is a possibility, and taking illegal drugs is always dangerous, especially from someone you do not know at all.

 

Yes, but it was implied it'd be something to help Rudy relax NOT drive him insane and have him put away in an institution. Rebecca's intent was to do something that altered his mind in a negative way since he saw her soaking wet and could ultimately lead to her being viewed as a suspect. She gave him something she'd never tried with hopes that he'd take too much.

 

Since Rebecca never tried it and if her intent was pure, it is her responsibility to disclose important information like that. I'd doubt Ruby would've still taken it or would've have been so open about it. But, again, she was trying to mess up his head. And she's posing as a friend to get him off guard. Drug dealers are just trying to make money--some may be cool, but Rudy wasn't her client, he was her neighbor who she preyed on in that moment. 

 

Rudy would be to blame if was the PCP that drug him insane. But, what drove him insane was what she LACED it with Purple X. That is why I put most of the blame on Rebecca. Considering that she's trying to get rid of him as a witness, I doubt she would've stopped if Rudy had turned her down. He just made it easy for her. Also, Rebecca was pretty sober when he saw her and most of the time as well. 

 

Yes and no, but it all comes down to the reason why Rudy was getting high and why Rebecca wanted him to get high. Rudy said people told him he needed to relax and specially said this to Rebecca. Rebecca knew that Purple X did the opposite of relaxing a person and intentionally laced the drug before she gave it to him. 

[possibilities]

Sam only identified himself because he was calling from a payphone.

Upthread, people were suggesting that if he was calling someone he knew, they would recognize his voice, so him identifying himself to them made no sense and maybe he was calling someone outside the inner circle. I was responding to that speculation, because everyone of my generation (that I know) automatically identifies themselves regardless of where they're calling from or who they're calling to.