S01.E13: Mama's Here Now

[Neurochick]

It was seemingly dropped but earlier in the season it was heavily implied and frankly I feel clearly stated that Rebecca had some kind of sexual history with Lila's boyfriend, a fact I don't think Lila knew. When Griffin and Rebecca were first arrested and then Annalise was considering taking Griffin on as a client, his version of what happened the night Lila disappeared was that he called Rebecca to score drugs for his frat party. He got the drugs, got high and later hooked up with Rebecca. While they were getting it on, Lila walked in and caught them and she angrily left and that was the last time he saw her.

 

 

Why would Lila be that upset if Griffin and Rebecca hooked up?  Lila was pregnant by Sam; how involved was she with Griffin? 

 

I can't see Rebecca carrying Lila up to the water tower, I can't see Rudy doing that either, so I am confused.  

 

I think Rebecca is very intelligent; the issue is that she hasn't had much privilege in life.  I've heard it said that many drug dealers are just as intelligent as Fortune 500 CEO's.

[truthaboutluv]

All the flashbacks so far are from the show/writers' perspective. The flashbacks have never been from any of the characters' perspective so Rebecca and Lila's friendship was real.

 

 

That's not accurate. In the first few episodes, they showed the flashback to the night of Sam's murder from different perspectives, so you could see what was going on with each of the four that night. That is how viewers later realized that Wes lied about the coin flip when they were deciding whether or not to go back for the body which made him seem very shady and suspicious at that point. It wasn't until later, with another flashback was it explained through the reveal that Annalise caught him returning for the murder weapon and she told him what he had to do and get the others to go along with it.

 

I'm not saying what we saw of Lila and Rebecca was false but that those were Lila's memories because the writers were trying to give her, the victim, a voice. Therefore my point is that in her mind, she believed she and Rebecca were friends. So she remembers them hanging out on the roof, her talking about her relationship with Sam, Rebecca being there for her, etc. However we don't know what Rebecca was really thinking in those moments and what she really thought of Lila. 

 

Again, those scenes of Rebecca and Lila gave zero indication of any kind of relationship between Rebecca and Griffin. It completely came across as he was just Lila's boyfriend that they talked about, that I guess Rebecca knew casually too and she kind of ragged on but that was it. But once again we know that's not the whole truth. Unless the writers were just really sloppy, it was made quite clear there was some kind of history between Rebecca and Griffin and their behavior prior to Lila's body being found still doesn't add up in my opinion.

 

I can't see Rebecca carrying Lila up to the water tower, I can't see Rudy doing that either, so I am confused.

 

 

Lila was a tiny girl. Each of those two by themselves probably couldn't do it but I'm pretty sure they could have together and maybe throw in Griffin and they definitely could have put her in that water tower. 

 

Why would Lila be that upset if Griffin and Rebecca hooked up?  Lila was pregnant by Sam; how involved was she with Griffin?

 

 

Yes she was cheating on him but based on her flashbacks, she was clearly under the impression he was staying true to the celibacy pact while she was the one breaking it. Lila was a teenage girl - cheating or not, I can totally buy her being upset at walking in on the guy she thought was being so faithful to her, with somebody else. And also keep in mind that she thought Rebecca was her friend. I would think the fact of it being Rebecca could have definitely upset her. 

 

And this also sort of fits Griffin's claim that Rebecca set it up for Lila to walk in on them. Because think about it - Rebecca is hooking up with Griffin, maybe has some feelings for him all the while he's saying Lila can't know because he thinks Lila is all pure and doesn't want to hurt her. Meanwhile she knows the whole time that Lila is really banging her old, married professor. So what better way to screw her over than make sure she walks in on her and Griffin - kills two birds with one stone.

Edited February 20, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[rubyred]

I appreciated the hair-combing scene and Michaela bring up Nate's race as those moments of fine detail that ground the show in any kind of "reality." Almost everything else is OTT or a little too convenient, so that the show borders on being a parody of itself (coughScandalcough) but still gets the joke. I totally enjoy it but they are walking a razor-fine line and can only do so because of Madame Viola. (OT: in my mailbox yesterday was a copy of Entertainment Weekly with Viola on the cover, with the headline "How to Get Away with Being AWESOME".)

 

At first I thought Cicely's character was a little too broad, but as it became clear that she was speaking from the experience of her years ("men take") it became more and more powerful. And the "long match" story -- that's why you hire Cicely Tyson, master class folks.

 

I've liked Liza Weil in so many things but Bonnie isn't doing it for me. The haircut and the lipstick are great, but she's so brittle. And her "stressed" voice -- it's nails on a chalkboard for me. I do wish they would stop with the Asher as buffoon thing, we've seen that's not all he is.

[Chicago Redshirt]

Why would Lila be that upset if Griffin and Rebecca hooked up?  Lila was pregnant by Sam; how involved was she with Griffin? 

 

People can be hypocritical about infidelity and sex, and so are characters in this show in particular.

 

Sam and Annalise were both -- to one extent or another -- shown to be upset that their spouse was a cheater, even though they both were.

 

Laurel was upset with Frank for having a long-distance girlfriend he never mentioned, even though she's cheating on Kan (who she has apparently patched things over with, btw. Run, Kan, run!)

 

Connor became jealous at the notion of Oliver having another guy in his life, even though he'd just done something that made another guy's eyes water and though Connor and Oliver had never been formally exclusive.

[blackwing]

Loved everything about Cicely Tyson.  I hope she gets the Emmy for Guest Actress.  She was amazing.  "Now you ain't got no husband, you ain't got no boyfriend, and you're just lying in that bed like you're the Queen of Sheba."  Doesn't get much more awesome than that.  

 

I'm inferring that Anna Mae came from the South because of her mama's accent and because that seems a Southern name.

For some reason I thought I heard Mama mention Georgia. Am I making this up?

 

Can't stand Rebecca.  Hate Wes.  Never liked him, but his continuing fixation on "what's best for Rebecca" irritates the crap out of me.  It saddens me that it looks like she won't be the killer.

 

The last clip of the preview shows a horrified Annalise and Laurel slowly opening what looks like a bathroom door.  I'm hoping that what they see is a dead Rebecca and Griffin standing over her body.  Sam killed Lila.  His murder is never solved because Annalise gets Nate out on a technicality.  Season 2, Annalise and company defend Griffin against the charge of murder of Rebecca.

 

Anything to get rid of Rebecca, her raccoon eyes makeup and nose ring.

[mtlchick]

At the start of the season, I thought that Viola is a lock for an Emmy nod.

 

I think if she submits this episode, she can even win.  (Though if she can tie with Taraji P Henson, I'd love that.) That was powerful stuff last night.  Her and Cicely together?  I kind of wish the Scooby Gang was around them longer just to see what fine acting looks like when you have the right partner for it.

 

Also, Naked Nate. 

[cooksdelight]

Nate needs to do a calendar. Stat.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Also, Naked Nate.

They might need to create a special Emmy category just for nearly-full-frontal Nate. Lawdamercy. He and Alcide from True Blood should get together and do a show about the adventures of male life models.

[Neurochick]

And this also sort of fits Griffin's claim that Rebecca set it up for Lila to walk in on them. Because think about it - Rebecca is hooking up with Griffin, maybe has some feelings for him all the while he's saying Lila can't know because he thinks Lila is all pure and doesn't want to hurt her. Meanwhile she knows the whole time that Lila is really banging her old, married professor. So what better way to screw her over than make sure she walks in on her and Griffin - kills two birds with one stone.

 

 

But that makes me feel more for Rebecca.  What a hypocrite Griffin is to say Lila can't find out that he's sleeping with somebody because Lila's so pure.  I can't stand classism.  I don't like Rebecca but I can see where she's coming from.  No one takes her seriously because she's not privileged, Griffin, Lila, everybody writes her off as this, "drug dealing townie."  It would be interesting if she were the mastermind of all of this. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

For some reason I thought I heard Mama mention Georgia. Am I making this up?

 

I don't remember an explicit mention of Georgia. But I do remember Mama said that the House of Dead Child-Rapist Uncles and Flammable Hooch was on "Peachtree Street." So Georgia would fit.  

[Miles]

There is one two-hour episode left, if they are going there, the pieces should be being lined up now. Think of all they have to do if they are really wrapping the Sam and Lila deaths up next week. The show runners have promised that the story will be wrapped up and there will be no The Killing trickery of a non-resolved crime.

I actually didn't know that the season was so short. I was thinking at least 20 episodes. Seems like it was Rebecca then, unless they throw in another twist. But at this point that would seem like cheating. Good to know that I was slightly ahead of the curve there. :D

 

But I just can't take it seriously with things like Bonnie yelling out "due process!" in court to justify letting in the hearsay of "your ex girlfriend told us....." The writers just throw in random legal words they think sound good and have the characters shout them periodically.

Yeah it was ridiculous at times. When she was having her long speach about the small stroke, the old man suffered, I actually yelled "Objection, counselor is testifying!" at my screen.

Speaking of stupid stuff. Would you really give blood thinner to somebody before an operation? I'm no medical professional, but that seems like a sure fire way to kill somebody.

 

I don't remember an explicit mention of Georgia. But I do remember Mama said that the House of Dead Child-Rapist Uncles and Flammable Hooch was on "Peachtree Street." So Georgia would fit.

It was actually mama's house. The uncle was staying with them. She burned down her house she "loved so much" to get revenge for her daughter, which somehow makes it even more powerful, which is weird, since you'd think killing her brother would be enough, but it does. Edited February 20, 2015 by Miles

[TwistedandBored]

Every scene between Cicely and Viola was wonderful to watch. 

 

 

And, Nate…damn!

[SimoneS]

That's not accurate. In the first few episodes, they showed the flashback to the murder from different perspectives, so you could see what was going on with each of the four that night. That is how viewers later realized that Wes lied about the coin flip when they were deciding whether or not to go back for the body which made him seem very shady and suspicious at that point. It wasn't until later, with another flashback was it explained through the reveal that Annalise caught him returning for the murder weapon and she told him what he had to do and get the others to go along with it.

 

 

You are wrong. The flashbacks are just different scenes from what happened that night from the show's perspective. None of the flashbacks have ever had anything to do with relying on the character's perspective or memories of the events. You claiming that Rebecca and Lila's friendship was not real, but it was because the show's flashbacks says that at that point it was. I will leave it at that.

[truthaboutluv]

You claiming that Rebecca and Lila's friendship was not real, but it was because the show's flashbacks says that at that point it was.

 

 

No, once again, that is not what I was saying. I plainly stated that I'm sure the scenes we were shown did happen but that they were Lila's memories. It's basically like I can remember a day and talk about me and my friend sitting on the roof laughing and drinking and having fun. That same person can remember the events but their feelings and view of those same events is not exactly the same. The show The Affair actually is exploring that very subject - how two people can remember the exact same event but small details vary in each of their perspective. 

 

I don't know if the confusion here is my saying the characters' perspective which is somehow being interpreted as different from the show's. Obviously, the different perspectives is the show but it is also detailing what exactly each individual character experienced that night, what they were going through and their mindset so in a sense it is the character's memory. In other words, Connor would have remembered that night with Wes flipping the coin and it being heads. Wes will remember that he lied and said it was heads to get them to do what Annalise told him to get them to do. So again, the events are the same but just different to each character. That is all I'm saying.

[cooksdelight]

Yeah it was ridiculous at times. When she was having her long speach about the small stroke, the old man suffered, I actually yelled "Objection, counselor is testifying!" at my screen.

Speaking of stupid stuff. Would you really give blood thinner to somebody before an operation? I'm no medical professional, but that seems like a sure fire way to kill somebody.

Yes to your first point, I thought "WTH?" Bonnie was out of order, testifying, etc., etc. All those years of watching Law & Order finally paid off. :)

Second point, you NEVER give blood thinner before an operation. I once had a pulmonary embolism and was on Heparin shots for 2 years. I had to have surgery for something else, and they told me to stop my shots 2 days before the surgery was scheduled. Otherwise, I would have bled out on the operating table.

[HoodlumSheep]

Late to the party, but:

I feel like I'm one of the only people left who likes Wes. Does he do stuff that is contradictory to what he sometimes says and does? Yes. Was he an idiot for trusting Rebecca? Pretty much. He's still one of the characters we pretty much know next to nothing about.

Loved Annalise's mama picking up on the weird vibe between Wes and Annalise.

Oliver is adorable. Love Wes and Laurel together.

Poor Nate.

Maybe Sam and Rebecca were in on murdering Lila together somehow. Maybe Rudy and Lila's boyfriend were in on it too. Maybe they had their own murder quartet going on like the Keating 4, but instead of sticking together like the Scooby gang has, they decided to turn on one another.

I have no idea. There's my wack-a-doodle theory that doesn't make any logical sense.

[Ljohnson1987]

Why did they wait until almost the end of the season to bring in Cicely Tyson? She’s incredible as Anna May’s mother. (Who knew her name was Anna May?)  Loved her one liners.

Poor Nate. He’s innocent. 

Wes and Annalise need to hook up! Stop denying the tension.

Bonnie was trying way too hard to be Annalise. Stick with what you know.

Rudy was a strange one.

[Happytobehere]

What is Rebecca's motivation to kill Lila, her friend? Or to have her killed? We know Rebecca and Lila's boyfriend fought, from the first episode. Rudy was never mentioned until recently. Would the boyfriend pay Rebecca big bucks to kill Lila? Where do Nate and Sam figure in, for framing them for the murder? We know Sam got Lila pregnant, she may have told boyfriend that fact. I'll be on the edge of my seat next week.

.

Don't forget, that aside from the boyfriend issue, which was the prosecution's theory (I never bought that), it was mentioned early on that Rebecca was Lila's dealer, since Rudy's mind was destroyed by a drug combination, don't put it past Rebecca for the drugs to be the motivation and the weapon she used against the threat Rudy posed.

[Miles]

Yes to your first point, I thought "WTH?" Bonnie was out of order, testifying, etc., etc. All those years of watching Law & Order finally paid off. :)

For me it's years of the good wife. :D

 

Second point, you NEVER give blood thinner before an operation. I once had a pulmonary embolism and was on Heparin shots for 2 years. I had to have surgery for something else, and they told me to stop my shots 2 days before the surgery was scheduled. Otherwise, I would have bled out on the operating table.

Yeah that's about what I figured. When I had to have a tooth pulled my dentist made damn sure that the painkiller I had taken had no blood-thinning porperties, like aspirin, for example. And that is only slightly blood thinning and he wasn't even slicing me open with a scalpel.

As an aside, everbody in this thread, can you please use the quote-button so we know who the quoted post was from and so that people who were quoted get a notification? We are no longer on a board with 10 year old software that doesn't have a real quote-feature. *cough*twop*cough*

Edited February 20, 2015 by Miles

[morgankobi]

I thought you guys might want to see something relevant to this episode?  Might help us figure out .. um... plot of... murders..?

 

 

I'm pretty sure any more comments made on this thread should quote this original post first. For posterity. And, uh,  Habeas Corpus and such.

[jjj]

And, uh,  Habeas Corpus and such.

Okay, that's BRILLIANT!  How did no one come up with that previously, with so many graduates here from L&O U!!!

[dirtypop90]

Late to the party, but:

I feel like I'm one of the only people left who likes Wes. Does he do stuff that is contradictory to what he sometimes says and does? Yes. Was he an idiot for trusting Rebecca? Pretty much. He's still one of the characters we pretty much know next to nothing about.

 

 

I like Wes now that he's suspicious of Rebecca, and I believe the actor has greatly improved since the beginning of the season

 

Anyone else love that Ophelia picked up on the weird sexual chemistry between wes and annalise. I feel like it was the writers way of telling us that they see it too!

[Scarlett45]

They might need to create a special Emmy category just for nearly-full-frontal Nate. Lawdamercy. He and Alcide from True Blood should get together and do a show about the adventures of male life models.

Yes I agree that would be wonderful!

[HoodlumSheep]

I like Wes now that he's suspicious of Rebecca, and I believe the actor has greatly improved since the beginning of the season

Anyone else love that Ophelia picked up on the weird sexual chemistry between wes and annalise. I feel like it was the writers way of telling us that they see it too!

I did! I still don't know if they'll actually go there with Wes and Annalise, and I'm still not sure if I want them to. Like, I want to see just how twisted the relationship can get without crossing that line first, before/if they decide to hook them up somewhere down the road.

[rubyred]

I feel like I'm one of the only people left who likes Wes. Does he do stuff that is contradictory to what he sometimes says and does? Yes. Was he an idiot for trusting Rebecca? Pretty much. He's still one of the characters we pretty much know next to nothing about.

I've always liked Wes. Okay, it's partly shallow, I love looking at Dean Thomas, er, Alfred Enoch's face all growed up. And I'm intrigued enough about what we do know about his backstory (born in Haiti, mentally ill mom, etc.) I've never gotten his fascination with Rebecca, even more so now that she's off the hook and back to the smoky eye from hell. (Why does the actress talksofast in such a dead monotone? Half the time I have to rewind to understand her. Like, seriously I rewound "Call Wes" in the murder ep because I couldn't understand why someone would say "callwiss" and then run up the stairs.)

 

The sexual tension with Annaliese; I felt like she tried to use that to keep him off balance, but ever since he told her to stop she's backed off. And frankly given her own sexual abuse history I was relieved to see it. I know there's another theory going around that Wes is her Secret Baby but again, ugggghhh with the sexual tension too.

 

Frank still seems totally extraneous to me. But now that Laurel and especially Michaela have shown that they're capable of being concerned about someone other than themselves they are growing on me too. I am wondering about a future Laurel/Wes hookup.

[helenamonster]

Same goes for Asher. I can only take that privileged moron in small doses. I mean is his character there to remind us how undeserving the people of privilege are of the things their parents' money affords them because he makes Connor acceptable in comparison and Connor, as noted above is a horrible human being.

 

Asher may be undeservedly privileged, but it's hard for me to hold that against him after his dad basically threw him out. That episode showed that he really has ethical standards. His dad could have given him quite the leg up in his career, but Asher chose doing the right thing over that. And, he still managed to finagle everything so that his dad wasn't collateral damage. He's a doofus, but he's got a soul.

 

I hope they don't make Laurel and Wes a couple. I feel like there are so few platonic friendships between two straight people of the opposite sex on television.

 

Oh yeah, forgot to comment on how Sam was Annalise's fucking therapist to help her get over a childhood rape. Yeesh, what a creep. Also, I feel like that is the biggest ethical violation a psychologist could commit. He's lucky no one found out or he would have lost his license for sure.

 

As for the blood thinners...I got the idea that the guy never actually had any surgeries. So maybe the blood thinners were supposed to be a red flag that something wasn't right with his story.

[ribboninthesky1]

As fabulous as it was to have Cicely Tyson I was not a fan of that character. This business of a parent emotionally stabbing their child with one hand and applying a tourniquet with the other isn't something I ever find entertaining. That said, I do expect Ms Tyson to get an Emmy nomination.

 

Yeah, I wasn't a fan of the character either, for the reasons you stated.  I kept thinking how their emotional rift could have possibly been repaired so many years ago, and possibly helpful to Annalise's healing, if she had just told Annalise what she did.  Her mother really didn't seem to understand why Annalise was trying to escape her past, and that was rather sad to me.  Especially knowing that she was raped. 

 

I know a lot of people worship at the feet of Shonda, but I think I've seen enough of her shows to know that this portrayal of a black woman is due to the woman they have in Viola Davis, not anything to do with Shonda. Viola is the one that brings the real black woman out and the life and background from which she sprang onto this show.

 

Now, I don't believe any black woman would have her hair as matted down as it was in the take off the wig scene, we'd have it better tended to, but tonight, when Cicely not only did Anna's hair, but Anna sat down on the floor for her to do it? That took millions of former, little black girls back to the many times their mother did their hair and that just didn't happen in the many years of opportunity that Shonda has had with her other black characters on TV. Shonda has fed more stereotypes or simply, conveniently made them "not that kind of black" characters.

 

Viola is the only reason why this show is still on the air and the way that Annalise is on the show.

 

I disagree.  The episodes where we see the "real black woman" were co-written/written by a black woman.  That doesn't take away from Viola's performance, but unless she's writing episodes now, I think the writer, Erika Green Swafford, deserves some credit. 

 

Shonda is an executive producer of the show, and I imagine would have at least some influence of who is in the writers' room.  I don't worship at the altar of Shonda, but I don't have to do so to recognize she's done a lot more for black female leads in network dramas than anyone else has in decades.  Without Shonda, there likely would be no Viola Davis working it on the TV screen in a lead role.  It's very likely Viola would still be (Juilliard-trained, critically acclaimed, and all) relegated to supporting parts in films, if not for this show.  And it was Shonda that opened the door with Scandal, in tandem with the viewers who cared to watch.

 

If we're talking about Shonda as a writer, I have plenty of issues.  But as a showrunner and influencer behind the scenes? When no one else was checking for black female LEADS in network dramas? I disagree with downplaying that.  Because one (Viola's shine) doesn't come without the other (Shonda's power and influence).  It just doesn't. I've only watched this show and Scandal, so I can't speak to how her other shows' black female characters have fared. 

 

As an aside, that hair combing scene brought up painful memories for me, as I kept wanting to tell Cicely Tyson to take it easy.  I mean, damn, you can't just run a comb through dry, natural hair all willy nilly! I felt that ish in my scalp, y'all.

 

Normally, I'd be all about The Nudity of Nate.  But it just wasn't much of a turn-on, given the circumstances.  Now if they want to feature The Nudity of Nate in any other mundane or explicitly sexual way, I fully support. 

[wanderingstar]

I do wish they would stop with the Asher as buffoon thing, we've seen that's not all he is.

 

I do too, mostly because I don't find it charming at all.

 

Cicely Tyson is everything. That scene of Mama braiding Annalise's hair took both me and my sister back. Great work from both actresses.

 

Michaela went from relief last week at seeing Nate arrested for Sam's murder to guilt at seeing an innocent man be framed. It feels logical to me that she'd change her tune once the reality of things set in.

 

I feel like I'm one of the only people left who likes Wes. Does he do stuff that is contradictory to what he sometimes says and does? Yes. Was he an idiot for trusting Rebecca? Pretty much. He's still one of the characters we pretty much know next to nothing about.

 

 

I like Wes too. I've liked him from the first episode. Yeah, I want to smack him now and then, but then that's true of most characters on this show.

Edited February 21, 2015 by Gillian Rosh

[KaveDweller]

I don't know if the confusion here is my saying the characters' perspective which is somehow being interpreted as different from the show's. Obviously, the different perspectives is the show but it is also detailing what exactly each individual character experienced that night, what they were going through and their mindset so in a sense it is the character's memory

 

Right, I think what we saw was real, but it doesn't mean other things didn't happen that make the big picture appear different.  Rebecca and Lila could have been friends who drank together and talked about Lila's affair, but that doesn't mean Rebecca didn't also dislike something about her.

[wanderingstar]

If we're talking about Shonda as a writer, I have plenty of issues.

 

 

Now there's an understatement.

[Kendall]

1. I disagree.  The episodes where we see the "real black woman" were co-written/written by a black woman.  That doesn't take away from Viola's performance, but unless she's writing episodes now, I think the writer, Erika Green Swafford, deserves some credit. 

 

2. Shonda is an executive producer of the show, and I imagine would have at least some influence of who is in the writers' room.  I don't worship at the altar of Shonda, but I don't have to do so to recognize she's done a lot more for black female leads in network dramas than anyone else has in decades.  Without Shonda, there likely would be no Viola Davis working it on the TV screen in a lead role.  It's very likely Viola would still be (Juilliard-trained, critically acclaimed, and all) relegated to supporting parts in films, if not for this show.  And it was Shonda that opened the door with Scandal, in tandem with the viewers who cared to watch.

 

3. If we're talking about Shonda as a writer, I have plenty of issues.  But as a showrunner and influencer behind the scenes? When no one else was checking for black female LEADS in network dramas? I disagree with downplaying that.  Because one (Viola's shine) doesn't come without the other (Shonda's power and influence).  It just doesn't. I've only watched this show and Scandal, so I can't speak to how her other shows' black female characters have fared. 

 

 

1. While I'm glad that Erika has been the one that can put her name on the scripts as writer or co-writer, she wouldn't be able to give words to the actions that Viola expressed a desire to play onscreen because as I believe and have seen, Shonda would've never made any effort to make the character more than another caricature on various levels as she's done nothing of the sort with her previously created major black characters in Miranda Bailey and Olivia Pope.

 

2. This ties into my overal point. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that Shonda has with each show, made each black actress that she cast a little more prominent than the one prior, but the overall arcs of both Bailey and Olivia could've just as easily been played by a white actress or a Latina.

 

Now, some may argue that is the "genius" behind those two characters as it is something that people have clamored for throughout the years: just create a great character and consider putting a black person as the lead. But, at the same time, at least for me, it's a little too convenient to expect the audience to beam with pride over a breakthrough opportunity, if the storytelling isn't breakthrough or even the least bit revelatory and for me, Shonda glossed over a lot of chances to create real discussions about various situations that cropped up in stories for Bailey and Olivia. Maybe those two actresses didn't want to go there, but considering that Shonda isn't the primary writer for Murder, I think a lot of it lies with Shonda not wanting to go there.

 

3. And perhaps, it is because you didn't sit through the frustration of Bailey, Richard and Burke on Grey's Anatomy that this, among other reasons, is why you disagree with me. But, Shonda had plenty of time to flesh out Miranda Bailey, but she didn't and when she did give a five minute glance to Bailey's home life, (in the early years, I finally had to bail) her family was really just the exact same dysfunction and disregard for the parental role in Bailey's life as Meredith and Cristina's.

 

Again, maybe that was the "genius," in that everyone, no matter the race, is more similar than not. However, there are so many stories and experiences within the black family that she could've differentiated Bailey's dysfunctional home that spoke as loudly as last night's one episode did for Annalise.

 

Shonda, you wanted to destroy Bailey's marriage? Okay, but you have a chance to do more than "black man leaves his family over some nonsense," so give us a little something about the inadequacies and perhaps, resentment that Tucker was feeling towards his highly successful black wife and her response to it, as a woman trying to balance that delicate act that many educated, black women have to do with their black male partners.

 

Shonda, you have a story in which Burke is supposed to be Bailey's mentor, but he's letting Bailey's resident! push her out of learning situations in surgeries. And no, maybe while it was happening, Burke couldn't offer any explanations, but when everything came out, you don't have any scenes between these personal friends, professional colleagues and plain and simple, two black people that were trying to succeed at this hospital together, discuss the confusion, anger and pain that arose from those actions?

 

I don't want to make this too long, but I think I'll stand firm in saying that Viola wanting to do more with her shot as the lead black actress has more to do with how Annalise comes off on this show than with Shonda as the provider of lead black acting roles.

Edited February 21, 2015 by Kendall

[rozen]

Looks like my dreams of a double-crossing Wes are officially crushed. If it's not an act, I pretty much hate his character and hope he gets shoved off a pier, or something. Not even Forrest Gump was that naive.

 

Marcia Gay Harden is nice and all, but Cicley Tyson was exactly what Viola needed to tear the house down. Ugh, the "shut up and suck it up" mentality towards black women's abuse is so familiar. I think mine was "I thought I taught you better than to let that happen to you." So many think that way too, I had to pay my dues, and you will too, and that's just how it is. Having to burn down everything she'd saved for may very well have cast her into a position where her child was safe, but she herself was not. I'm glad at least Annalise knows what her worth was to her mother.

 

The Sam Douche train just keeps picking up steam. I wonder if that's how he pulled his first wife too? Maybe that's why his sister is so strangely into him? Playing mind games from an early age, maybe.

 

Uh oh, Bonnie's getting a little taste of victory. She's going to be harder and harder to bring to heel, shoulda got back on your feet faster, Annalise. 

 

Nate just outdid every season of True Blood in about 2s. That guy is a freaking brickhouse, he must workout every spare second of the day to balance out that barrel chest. 

 

Frank was a non entity to me in the beginning, but for some reason he seems really hot now. I r haz confusion. Maybe he can get arrested too, so I can do a full body comparison...for science.

Edited February 21, 2015 by rozen

[morgankobi]

Yeah, Science!

Edited February 21, 2015 by morgankobi

[Miles]

Anyone else love that Ophelia picked up on the weird sexual chemistry between wes and annalise. I feel like it was the writers way of telling us that they see it too!

I still think people are misinterpreting the motherly love Annalise has for her son, including her own mama. She cares for him and wants to protect him, but not because she wants to bone him.

Yeah, I wasn't a fan of the character either, for the reasons you stated. I kept thinking how their emotional rift could have possibly been repaired so many years ago, and possibly helpful to Annalise's healing, if she had just told Annalise what she did. Her mother really didn't seem to understand why Annalise was trying to escape her past, and that was rather sad to me. Especially knowing that she was raped.

How would that have gone? "Oh yeah honey, you know my brother, who raped you? I burned him alive as revenge, LOL."

You can't tell a child that you murdered somebody. You can't put that on their shoulders. You also can't tell an adult to whom you are now estranged. You don't know if they would go straight to the police with that information. Mama could only tell Annalise, once she had done the same or something similar, because at that point she would understand.

Yeah, Science!

Science, bitch!

[kikaha]

 

I'm not sure how I feel about the political points the show tries to put in, such as innocent people (particularly black ones) get unjustly convicted all the time, or that men are all about taking.

 

FWIW, the studies I'm familiar with find anywhere from 0.5% to 5% of convicted people are in fact not guilty.  In percentage terms, very small.  But so many people get convicted each year -- I think it's well over a million -- that means thousands of innocent people are found guilty each year. 

 

Men are all about taking?  I'm interested to hear the reasoning behind that argument. 

[coloradoqt]

 

I'm not sure how I feel about the political points the show tries to put in, such as innocent people (particularly black ones) get unjustly convicted all the time, or that men are all about taking. I guess I give the show kudos for being bold enough to even hint that the justice system isn't always just. I can't think of any other court shows off the top of my head to imply that.

 

The way it was presented especially. Nothing was explained or overdone, it was just a mother/daughter scene which mothers and daughters of every race and culture could relate to, in a way (a mother brushing her daughter's hair) but it was specific to American black culture and it presented it in a really natural way. 

 

I don't think you will see any other court shows,that's gonna reflect" such as innocent people (particularly black ones) get unjustly convicted all the time. I guess I give the show kudos for being bold enough to even hint that the justice system is, etc. Because there aren't any other court shows written,directed or produced by the likes of Shonda. Someone who KNOWS the system is flawed. 

Just as Annalise's hair, her mother combing (she was combing not brushing) her hair only someone who knows who she is and feel the freedom to actually portray   black people as black people are and actresses like Viola can portray black women like she KNOW we are. That is the real life  of REAL black people. not Hollywood manufactured black people. No shade!!

[coloradoqt]

Anybody see Dallas, the whole season when Bobby was dreaming?

Anybody see Dallas, the whole season when Bobby was dreaming?

[truthaboutluv]

With regards to Sam and Annalise's relationship, maybe I missed it but are we sure he was her therapist? Because I don't think that was explicitly stated. Yes Sam was a Psychology professor but I don't think that meant he was a practicing therapist. I got the impression his role was strictly in academia. I remember when Annalise asked him to speak to Rebecca, before Rebecca figured out he was the professor Lila had been with, and Sam made a comment about not being a therapist or practicing (can't remember the exact line) and Annalise told him to just talk to Rebecca and get a sense of where her head was at.

 

So what I got from Annalise's comment was that she and Sam met and perhaps because of psychology knowledge, training or whatever, he knew almost immediately what happened to Annalise. My guess is that's how they became closer which led to the affair and their eventually getting married. But I don't think he was her therapist. I of course could be wrong though.

[Eolivet]

Wow, this episode pushed all my buttons in the best way about one of my favorite dramatic topics: dysfunctional family relationships.

 

So, we see Annalise/Anna Mae as a woman who suffered a trauma, which made her leave where she was from and seek comfort from who appears to be an extremely manipulative man in Sam. The "Wes as Annalise's son" theories are even more interesting, because one could argue that's the same thing that's happened to Wes: suffered an early trauma, and has become the target of an extremely manipulative woman in Rebecca.

 

To see how Ophelia (Shakespearian! Love it!) treated Annalise/Anna Mae, to me, also mirrored the odd "fake mother/daughter" relationship Annalise has with Bonnie. Annalise treats Bonnie with the same amount of seeming contempt as she seems to feel her own mother treated her. I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that Annalise, perhaps unknowingly, helped Bonnie and earned her gratitude in some way. But when it comes to Annalise's mothering, the apple doesn't fall far from the (V) tree.

 

Finally, that is how you deal with rape in a major network drama. The revelation Anna Mae was raped wasn't meant to engender sympathy for her or make some man feel guilty for not protecting his woman. It was all about mothers and daughters and "the way it was." Considering how (bizarrely) "in vogue" it is to rape women on dramas these days, this was revelatory. This will start a better conversation about rape: when it's about the women who are affected and not the men.

[darkestboy]

Really enjoyed this episode a lot.

 

Every scene with Annalise and her mother was pure television gold and gave us so much insight into Annalise's whole character. Really hope we get to see her mother next season after this one.

 

The Connor/Oliver scenes in this episode were excellent too. Love that we're getting some genuine character growth for Connor and the introduction of Oliver to the gang (minus Asher) was great, if a little too brief though.

 

Michaela went up in my estimations this week by trying to find things out about Nate and Annalise having a plan to save him is also a good thing.

 

Rebecca might not have killed Lila but she knows more than she's letting on and her role in Rudy's current predicament along with her trackign Wes is creepy as well. Liked Wes and Laurel working as a team though. That was good.

 

Case of the week was a good one for Bonnie and she got to have sex with Asher again. Frank kind of had nothing to really do here, 8/10

[shksabelle]

Just engrave the Emmys for Viola Davis and Cicely Tyson now.  They were awesome.

And, to all the over-botoxed, frozen-faced women of the screen, those performance were what is known as ACTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[marceline]

The scenes between Viola and Cecily were like a completely different program. In fact they were very much like watching a play. I felt like I was sitting in a theatre with an audience watching these two women do a show that was straight out of Tennessee Williams or August Wilson. Everytime the show went back to the COTW I was actually startled.

 

It was crazy and gothic and honestly one of the best things I've seen on television in ages. I have a million issues with Shonda's writing and producing but none of that changes the fact that without her we never would've gotten scenes like that. I was looking at my Hulu queue this morning and there's HTGAWM, Scandal, Blackish and Empire. I don't think there's been this many black folks in primetime since the 70s.

Edited February 22, 2015 by marceline

[penelope79]

It was seemingly dropped, but earlier in the season it was heavily implied and frankly I feel clearly stated that Rebecca had some kind of sexual history with Lila's boyfriend, a fact I don't think Lila knew. When Griffin and Rebecca were first arrested and then Annalise was considering taking Griffin on as a client, his version of what happened the night Lila disappeared was that he called Rebecca to score drugs for his frat party. He got the drugs, got high and later hooked up with Rebecca. While they were getting it on, Lila walked in, caught them and she angrily left and that was the last time he saw her. He also added that he realized after that Rebecca set it up so Lila would catch them.

 

The writers never showed Rebecca being questioned about Griffin's version of what happened. In fact, if I think about it, we've never been shown or told Rebecca's version of that night at all. All we've been told is that she didn't do it and Wes jumping on her defense bandwagon because he just knew she was telling the truth and no one would give her a chance because she was poor and came from the wrong side of tracks. That said, while we've never been given an account of what happened with Rebecca that night, she did later accuse Griffin of supposedly raping her to discredit him. Wes got really mad because he knew for a fact the claim was a lie and when he confronts Rebecca, she asks him if what he's really mad about is the fact that she was with Griffin. That to me confirmed that there was clearly some sexual history between those two. 

 

Which brings me to the whole "she and Lila were friends". When Wes first meets Rebecca and Lila is still missing, he at one point tells her he's sorry about her friend and she very coldly and harshly states that Lila was not her friend. Then suddenly the flashbacks of Lila show them all bosom buddy. But interestingly, Lila is shown talking to Rebecca about the virginity pact with Griffin that Lila wasn't keeping since she was sleeping with Sam and Rebecca rags on Griffin a couple of times and you get no indication that something is going on between her and Griffin or that Lila knows. So that made me question the honesty of these flashbacks. In other words, I think Lila saw Rebecca as a friend and so the flashbacks were really Lila's view of things but I don't think Rebecca really thought of Lila as a friend. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some resentment on her part and she saw Lila as some privileged, sorority girl pretending to be a saintly virgin while banging her professor. 

 

 

Sam comes in because Rebecca knew Lila had been having an affair. Wes convincing Annalise to take on Rebecca as a client helped her figure out Sam was the mysterious older man Lila was sleeping with. And this is all just a theory of course, but I can see how at that point, when she confirmed it was Sam, she saw a perfect way to pin the murder on him. He'd been having an affair with the dead girl who was his student, so it was inappropriate and she had gotten pregnant. At that point Rebecca just had to wait for the pieces to fit and as others noted, with her on the computer tracking Wes' phone, who knows if she didn't have a system to manipulate Sam's coordinates that night to make him look more guilty. 

 

So she goes into the house to set him up and Wes and company show up. Sam, already in a very bad space from the drama with Annalise, fear of the truth about his relationship with Lila coming out, snaps and attacks Rebecca and Wes kills him. Her hands remain clean, even with the cover up, which she took no part in because Wes convinces all the others that she can't be there. So she didn't help burn Sam's body, hack him to pieces, dump him in landfill, etc. Something else that also occurred to me - we didn't see what exactly happened between Sam and Rebecca before he started strangling her. Rebecca said she was going to the bathroom, the four students remained in the room trying to figure out what to do and then they suddenly hear a sound and Sam is on top of Rebecca. Who is to say she didn't attack him, realizing he wasn't dead and they all came in when he got the upper hand?

 

As for Nate, well he gets in this for being stupid enough to get involved with Annalise. But basically he started suspecting Sam of murdering Lila when Annalise had him look up Sam's alibi for that night and he realized Sam lied about being at Yale. So he contacts Rebecca to help him prove Sam killed Lila figuring she'd definitely be willing to help because it would mean clearing her name. But he, like everyone else is in the dark about who and what Rebecca really is and he gave her a perfect means to try to set Sam up. And now, in trying to save the students, Annalise has made him take the fall for Sam's murder and Rebecca being who she is was only too happy to throw him under the bus in her interview with the police. 

 

Again this is all huge speculation on my part that could be completely wrong but like I said in my previous post, Rebecca's being behind this and more of a cold, mastermind that anyone suspected would fit perfectly with what this show is called and what it's all about. It basically would be the ultimate "How to Get Away With Murder". Which I guess for her means find a bunch of stupid, gullible guys to fall for and believe blindly in you. 

 

I agree with your whole post, truthaboutluv.

And I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities that Rebecca is, in fact, Lila's killer (or involved in her murder at the very least), even though it would be apparently too obvious by now. In TV, what is obvious is to find out about a killer's identity in the very last episode, but in this case it would only be refreshing if we had the confirmation that Rebecca is the culprit and for us to finally find out "how" she actually managed "to get away with the murder".

Ok, I never trusted her, nor liked her, but I started being suspicious for the first time when Annalise asked Sam to question her. Rebecca told him right away that she already knew she had a high IQ and Sam realized that that was not her first time being questioned. We didn't get to know why she had previously seen a shrink, but I remember I thought it was weird they mentioned Rebecca's high IQ. Now I think it was a hint that she's actually some kind of a mastermind, and maybe it's something she's even done before.

Potentially, she could even blackmail the Keating 4, since she knows first hand they're Sam's killers but she's "only" an eyewitness.

If TPTB plays this match well enough, the season finale can still be amazing even if we already know who murdered Lila.

Edited February 21, 2015 by penelope79

[helenamonster]

Did anyone else think the defendant this week looked like the one from a couple weeks ago whose husband was keeping prisoners in the basement?

[HalcyonDays]

Uh gross, he's her son! (that's my newest theory and I'm sticking to it.)

 

I think so too. Annalise gave up a kid for adoption, and it will be Wes. It just seems that Annalise treats Wes differently than the others, has more of a connection to him. Maybe its because she sees herself in Wes, but everytime I think "son".

 

Nate. Wow. Just...wow. Annalise better get him out of prison. I still thought it was weird at the very end, when Annalise went to talk to him. If he thought he were betrayed by Anna, then I expected more of an angry reaction, but he seemed like this was all part of the plan. Same with Anna's speech" to him. She knows it's being filmed, so she's planning something. Just get him free.

 

Cicely Tyson  - amazing. Just loved her smacking down Anna Mae (Anime?) about being too good for her past, living in that 'rich' home, I want a mama like that!

 

Anyone feel sorry for Viola when Cicely was combing her hair. Damn, Cicely was pulling that comb through so hard, and you could see it was snapping Viola's head back because of knots. She didn't wince, but I did! Poor Viola. I do love that she's unafraid of being "naked' on TV, in the sense of no wig or makeup or perfectly put together, etc. She allows herself to be seen unglamourous and I love that.

 

I wonder if someone (besides the students) is going to call her out on being depressed in bed for a week because Nate was arrested, but just going on with business when Sam "disappeared" / was murdered. Hmm....

[mikem]

The scenes between Viola and Cecily were like a completely different program. In fact they were very much like watching a play. I felt like I was sitting in a theatre with an audience watching these two women do a show that was straight out of Tennessee Williams or August Wilson. Everytime the show went back to the COTW I was actually startled.

I thought the scenes with Viola and Cecily were really well-written and directed.  They were like little playlets.  I think all of their scenes were essentially just the two of them, played straight through without a lot of fancy cross-cutting.  I thought that Cecily's last monologue was particularly well-written, when you don't really know where she is going but she drops in the early reference to the long match and the hooch and then lets it all fall into place with the last sentence.

 

I just re-watched the scene, and there's over 2.5 straight minutes of nothing but Cecily Tyson just talking and combing hair, and it's spellbinding.  Bravo to her, the director, and the writer.  

Edited February 21, 2015 by mikem

[truthaboutluv]

And I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities that Rebecca is, in fact, Lila's killer (or involved in her murder at the very least), even though it would be apparently too obvious by now. In TV, what is obvious is to find out about a killer's identity in the very last episode, but in this case it would only be refreshing if we had the confirmation that Rebecca is the culprit and for us to finally find out "how" she actually managed "to get away with the murder".

 

 

I agree and I will say, while I get the comments about it clearly not going to be her because the writing made it too obvious last Thursday, as someone else noted, considering this Thursday is the season finale, if they are ultimately going to reveal Rebecca is guilty in some way, they needed to start planting the seeds at some point. Therefore everything makes sense and fits in place and viewers aren't left going "that makes no sense..."

 

And thinking about it, they didn't really glaringly suggest Rebecca killed Lila - sure Rudy stuttered out wet and Wes assumes he's talking about the water tower and Rebecca was shown tracking Wes' phone coordinates but that's not really full damning proof. Don't get me wrong, it's pretty compelling but not full on damning proof. That said, the other thing about it maybe not being her because it's been hinted at, is Sam. Sam was hinted at for multiple episodes as being shady as fuck and in the end he really did lie about knowing and having an affair with Lila, he did lie about knowing she was pregnant and then he even tried to emotionally manipulate Bonnie when she revealed to him she knew about Lila because she came to the house.

 

So they didn't shy away from making Sam awful though I recognize that it would be the ultimate twist that for all his awfulness, the one thing he was honest about was not killing Lila. Whether or not she killed Lila, which I can believe she didn't, only because Lila was apparently strangled and Rebecca's not that much bigger than her and it takes a lot of physical force and strength to choke the life out of someone, it's clear I think, that she has been lying about something extremely significant the whole time. 

Edited February 21, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[Xazeal]

Rebecca as the mastermind would be incredible, but as much as I love this show, I don't think they'd really go there. They seem to be in love with the Wes/Rebecca pairing, and they wouldn't mess that up by making her the villain. As brilliant as it would be.

 

My theory for a while now has been that Bonnie killed Lila. She clearly has issues and it would be an "unexpected" reveal since since she hasn't really been acting shady and isn't very involved with the whole Lila storyline right now. I would love to be wrong, because I really like her character, and her dynamic with Annaliese is one that I'm legitimately curious about. 

 

I sort of think Oliver's about to be integrated into the core group. He's been introduced to Connor's "friends" and he mentioned how he basically works for Annaliese will all the information he's providing - and in the same episode, we see Bonnie directly requesting his assistance! I suspect that Oliver may find himself actually working for Annaliese in the near future. 

[morgankobi]

Setting up Rebecca now, though, gives us two hours possibly worried about Wes's (and the other Scooby's) safety. If we get confirmation early on that she has committed murder, drugged/traumatized and sent away the only witness/accomplice and has played all these lawyers with her supposed high IQ, we still have the drama of what she might do to keep all that from coming out.

 

Speaking of Rudy, he was also a law student right? Did Rebecca actually push someone bright enough to get into law school that far? (I know this law school seems to have pretty low standards and all, but, still.) Has she been keeping up some sort of false communication with some of his family so they think he's still in school, then?

[cooksdelight]

Has she been keeping up some sort of false communication with some of his family so they think he's still in school, then?

Maybe. She sure grabbed that Christmas card out of Wes' hand really fast, didn't she?