S01.E14: Fallout

[Eegah]

Anyone else suspect that the ending was designed specifically to pay off the end of Justice League Unlimited, where Grodd was shot into space by Lex Luthor (voiced by Clancy Brown) while swearing he would somehow get revenge?

[Trini]

So in just this episode alone, we can add 4 more to the list of people who know The Flash's identity.

[benteen]

Really good episode.  Robbie Amell and Victor Garber are a real off-beat pairing but work very well together.  Victor Garber automatically makes everything better and having him in a scene with Clancy Brown shows how good the casting is on this show.  Firestorm is good and I think this would make a more interesting show than one for The Atom.  Looks like Iris has an interesting story now.

 

The end with Grodd was awesome and I was glad that Harrison fed the general to him.

[statsgirl]

I liked a lot of the episode, and some parts I didn't like.

 

I liked the Ronnie/Stein bits and how they are still a part of each other.  I loved Victor Garber's Stein.  But they made such a fuss at TCA about Garber being a! gay! actor! (along with John Barrowman and Wentworth Miller) that I have a hard time buying Martin/Clarissa now.  Sexual orientation promotions should be about the character, not the actor.

 

I love how grey Harrison Wells is. I hope they don't overdo it though.

 

 

And the next spinoff should be a female superhero.

I'd like the next spin-off to be all the characters that clutter up these two shows now, Laurel/Black Canary  and Ray/the Atom from Arrow, Firestorm and whoever else they create on The Flash.  (Poor Plastique, you would have been great.)  A place to siphon them off when it gets too full.

 

I agree, especially because Mason had to do the off screen inquiry with the military. We didn't see her doing any investigative journalism, but we do see her surreptitiously investigating her friends. Iris used to work at Jitters and hangs out there all the time. .

This is the part of the episode that I liked the least, Iris deciding to investigate her friends on the sly. It's nasty and sneaky.  If she suspects there is something going on at Star Labs, either ask or let Mason do the dirty work.  it's going to make me really dislike Iris, and since she's the long term female love interest, that's not good.

 

I was unimpressed by Roger Howarth this episode. I know he can do better.

[bluebonnet]

 

 

This is the part of the episode that I liked the least, Iris deciding to investigate her friends on the sly. It's nasty and sneaky.  If she suspects there is something going on at Star Labs, either ask or let Mason do the dirty work.  it's going to make me really dislike Iris, and since she's the long term female love interest, that's not good.

 

With all due respect, this is unfair and complaining just to complain.   Iris' "friends" are lying to her.  And I use friends loosely here since she and Caitlin are merely acquaintances.  Let's also not forget that Caitlin asked Iris to investigate the burning man thing.   Furthermore, Star Labs had possession of Barry's body and made his medical decisions for eight months.  I would think the audience would be pissed if she didn't do her part to investigate Star Labs since her actual best friend could have been victim of whatever is going on there.  How could anyone respect Iris' character if she didn't do her job, didn't investigate a company that wrecked havoc on a city, and didn't investigate knowing her bff had been in the clutches of that that company for a significant period of time? 

Edited February 18, 2015 by bluebonnet

[benteen]

Eilng's anti-Flash weapons were pretty impressive.

 

Barry is REALLY playing too loose with his secret identity.  Stein's wife now knows his identity?  Then stupidly unmasking in front of Eiling a few weeks ag.

[tennisgurl]

Stupid Hiatus! I don't want to wait for more! 

 

Oh Barry...you suck at having a secret identity. I get why its necessary to try to keep his identity a secret, but I almost wish he would pull an Iron Man and just tell everyone the truth. Barry is just such a ball of sunshine, he cant lie about something like this. 

 

Grodd!!!! I really love that this show embraces its comic book roots. Arrow works as the more "realistic" superhero show (relatively), and this is the kooky fun one. 

[In2You]

Eilng's anti-Flash weapons were pretty impressive.

 

Barry is REALLY playing too loose with his secret identity.  Stein's wife now knows his identity?  Then stupidly unmasking in front of Eiling a few weeks ag.

It just makes it even more disrespectful to Iris. He can reveal his identity to these randoms but not his best friend whose life is in danger.

[Actionmage]

He can reveal his identity to these randoms but not his best friend whose life is in danger.

 

 

Wait, are we going to get Grodd knocking on Iris and Eddie's door?  Or will it be Hartley? Or Eiling? Or Slade Wilson? Or Amanda Waller? Or Lyla Michaels, Diggle's bride-to-be again?

[TyranAmiros]

Wait, are we going to get Grodd knocking on Iris and Eddie's door? Or will it be Hartley? Or Eiling? Or Slade Wilson? Or Amanda Waller? Or Lyla Michaels, Diggle's bride-to-be again?

Nah, next time we see Grodd, he will be having dinner with Joe and Barry, and they'll just tell Iris that he's Caitlyn's cousin. He's her cousin. Cousin. Totally her cousin. In conclusion: Cousin. (h/t to Movies in 15 Minutes).

[Oscirus]

Is there any reason why Barry didn't knock out General Elling during the first battle in the alley? His ineptitude and inability to learn from his mistaks is getting funny at this point.  Ditto on Firestorm's need to tell the general "this ends now." Were you not paying attention in the alley?

 

I know Garber is old and icky but they pretty much wasted his appearance just to lay down some time traveling exposition.

 

Grodd and Reverse Flash working together is an uh oh proposition.  I wonder what Grodd will do to the general.

 

Iris please learn the definition of friends. I believe acquaintances is the word you should have used. Also the show is messing with me with that dinner scene. Right? There is no friggin way that they thought that Joe forgetting about his daughter coming over to cook is funny. No way. Also is he ever going to visit his daughter at her place or is Iris required to put forth all the effort in that relationship.

 

Caitlin's just officially  been freed up. Just saying. Also huge screw up on that lie ( Team Flash as a whole really needs to learn how to lie better), now Iris is going to be studying Star Labs more closely. But hey,  at least you kept Ronnie's identity a secret..

 

I think that Barry revealed himself to Stein's wife for the same reason he revealed himself to Lyla. He assumed that the good professor tells his wife everything. So all Iris has to do is marry somebody who knows Barry's secret and Barry will reveal himself to her.

 

Please no Firestorm spinoff.  I don't want to sound racist or sexist but CW really needs to stop doing comic shows with white male leads. Three is enough ( assuming Atom actually becomes a show).

 

 

 

 

[Amelie06]

 

Really? Would she be investigating them if they weren't acting sketchy and lying to her face? So she shouldn't investigate and find out what's going on because Ronnie may be taken in by the government? Shouldn't she find out what's happening first before deciding what to do with the information?

I understand and respect the role of investigative journalism. But I can't think of any investigative journalist that garnered their information by spying on family and friends. My problem is not that she is a journalist, it is that she showed up at Jitters to casually ask questions to further her investigation. Is this what journalist do? Hide the fact that they are even acting as journalist to trade on personal relationships to get info? That's effed up if true. I can see tabloid journalist doing crap like that, but I can't imagine the crew at 60 minutes pulling that kind of stunt. Also, I think the 'investigative journalist' defense ignores Iris's very recent history with the Flash. She was repeatedly asked to stop blogging about him and she refused. She kept trying to get more info so that she could make it public. This is despite the fact that the man himself specifically asked her more than once to stop. Based on that single-minded pursuit of the story, I don't have a lot of faith that she could uncover even a little of the shit Star Labs is up to and not write about it. Not to mention the fact that she is working with a more experienced reporter who doesn't know or care about any of those people they are investigating. You don't exploit friendship to write a in-depth investigative article. Maybe she will be straight with everyone in the next episode and say "I'm going to find out what is going on in this lab, whether you are going to help me or not!"

 

I have two theories on Barry's old house. 1. Joe has been sexing up the horny owner so that she would give him unfettered access to the house. 2. Joe and Barry killed or tied up the owner of the house so that they could have unfettered access. (I admit that neither seems likely. It's probably just a plot convenience that we are just going to have to let go.)

[Oscirus]

it is that she showed up at Jitters to casually ask questions to further her investigation. Is this what journalist do? Hide the fact that they are even acting as journalist to trade on personal relationships to get info?

 

She asked Caitlin to see if her "friend" would continue lying. She even tried to give Caitlin an out by telling her that she knew Caitlin was lying and Caitlin refused to take it. This was when she committed to  helping Mason.

 

She was repeatedly asked to stop blogging about him and she refused. She kept trying to get more info so that she could make it public. This is despite the fact that the man himself specifically asked her more than once to stop

 

 

She was asked to stop blogging because of the danger it posed to her. It had nothing to do with Flash who obviously didn't mind since he kept seeing her even after she refused and took the name she gave him in her blog.

[wayne67]

Did it bother anyone else the amount of time that Barry spent super speeding back and forth without his super suit with or without passengers? Or that the special gizmo Ronnie was wearing disappeared when they separated the second time ?

 

Barry keeps aggravating me. He keeps rushing into situations without thinking and the solutions are often "RUN FASTER" like with Mist guy or Tony/Girder. It's becoming stale.

 

Barry and Iris are way too trusting of Wells/Star Labs considering their respective backgrounds/life experiences. Total disconnect.

[Oscirus]

Barry and Iris are way too trusting of Wells/Star Labs considering their respective backgrounds/life experiences. Total disconnect.

 

I don't know. If you look at it from Barry's point of view, star labs has been teaching him to control his powers and it's given him a purpose in life. For Iris, the lab has saved Barry's life. IMO, it makes sense that they don't want to believe that Wells is evil.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Oscirus

[wayne67]

I don't know. If you look at it from Barry's point of view, star labs has been teaching him to control his powers and it's given him a purpose in life. For Iris the lab has saved Barry's life. IMO, it makes sense that they don't want to believe that Wells is evil.

 

Except Barry has personal first hand experience that Wells was told by Pied Piper that the particle accelerator was dangerous and ignored it to continue on heedless of the dangers of experimentation. Pied Piper was then cut out by Wells for dissenting. Then there's the metahuman prison that has no oversight, the use of Tony as a decoy, the dead bodies that are just disposed of without Barry being concerned at all. '

 

As Mason? said Barry's life wouldn't have been in danger if Wells and co weren't being haphazard with matter. Regardless of intent, cleaning up the mess doesn't negate the impact of your actions just because you might be sorry. Supposedly 17 people died as a direct result of the explosion and countless others have suffered and or died in the resulting chaos of metahumans on the loose. Barry also knows that Wells is covering up the metahumans existence and doesn't ask why.

 

Wells should have a big neon sign saying 'DUBIOUS' over his head. Barry works with cops and the justice system he shouldn't be so naive about people's dark sides especially when Wells sacrifices a dude to delay an enemy's attack. I'll give him a free pass for not noticing the disappearance of major players since very little has any lasting impact in this city. A 15 year old murder is more important than a nuclear explosion in the 'badlands' outside the city to Joe.

 

It boggles the mind.

 

Also there is no way that the General developed a weapon to be used against The Flash without advising superiors of his name and power. Do you think Barry and Firestorm assaulting the army personnel would be considered treason ?

Edited February 18, 2015 by wayne67

[Oscirus]

I think it's a case of people not wanting to believe that Wells is evil. Let's be honest Wells was his idol and now he's Barry's father figure. Is it easy to pinpoint him as a villain with all the things you pointed out? Yes, but when you look at it from Barry's perspective it's easy to see why he'd label Wells as a someone who means well even if his execution is questionable.

 

Barry also knows that Wells is covering up the metahumans existence and doesn't ask why.

 

To be fair, Joe is doing the same thing and one could even argue the prison was partially Joe's idea.

 

Also there is no way that the General developed a weapon to be used against The Flash without advising superiors of his name and power.

 

I'm more interested in the general's thinking. "Let me create a weapon that requires my opponent to be stupid enough to trash talk me as opposed to just knocking me out."

[wayne67]

I think it's a case of people not wanting to believe that Wells is evil. Let's be honest Wells was his idol and now he's Barry's father figure. Is it easy to pinpoint him as a villain with all the things you pointed out? Yes, but when you look at it from Barry's perspective it's easy to see why he'd label Wells as a someone who means well even if his execution is questionable.

 

To be fair, Joe is doing the same thing and one could even argue the prison was partially Joe's idea.

 

 

I'm more interested in the general's thinking. "Let me create a weapon that requires my opponent to be stupid enough to trash talk me as opposed to just knocking me out."

 

Lol how many father figures does Barry need ? He's got a bio dad, Joe as his foster dad and Wells as his science dad? I'd accept Barry thinking Wells actions were well meaning but ill executed if A) the man wasn't supposed to be a genius B) His actions were questioned for more than 3 seconds before he's given a free pass by Barry because Wells strokes his ego.

 

Joe does question Wells actions, hence all the investigating. Apparently noone cares about the constitution in regards to that prison. I blame the Patriot Act.

 

Perhaps the General hijacked a military satellite and noticed Barry's tendency to quip first and punch later. There's probably at least 2 scenes of Pied Piper causing scenes in public spaces that would gather some notice from the military and Barry didn't do the sensible thing and speed behind the guy's back and knock him unconscious and strip him of his weapons without conversation. Then there's Captain Cold and Heat guy and their long winded battle when Flash could have run up to a roof and thrown some rocks at super speed at the two humans with SuperScience weapons.

 

The General probably used recon and battle strategy which is something Barry desperately needs before I'll accept him as a competent hero.

Edited February 18, 2015 by wayne67

[Jediknight]

Can we have a nice British man drop by and explain to Barry that there are fixed points in the timestream and that they absolutely shouldn't be tampered with?

But why would Colin Firth or Mark Strong appear on a CW show?

 

Sorry watched Kingsman, so I immediately thought of them.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Jediknight

[Autumn]

Wells is the only one who knows what happens in the future so he may have good reasons for taking a ruthless ends justifies the means approach to dealing with problems..

 

Iris has reasons to be suspicious but at the same time she shouldn't be surprised that people who work in science labs keep secrets about what they are working on.  She also shouldn't be surprised that cops can't talk about police investigations with people not involved in the investigation.  i would rather she be doing something other than just being in the background though.

[Cirien]

I'm fully expecting a fake out with Wells when this show comes back...but it was good to see him in the Yellow Suit. As for if he could be an Older Barry well that's possible, (I do think they look alike?) but one that's well become hardened and more Machiavellian as a result of what happens in the Crisis maybe? 

[Shanna]

There are going to be comic booky things on a live-action version of a comic book. That's the story. It's a comic book.

So is arrow. So is gotham. This one may just not be the one for me.

I think my main problem is that I'm not enjoying firestorm although I did like victor garber. I just don't care about Ronnie.

Meh, I felt like it was a pretty standard fictional of one side fumbling their way into creating a lie. Like "oh, we aren't doing anything weird nothing going on what are you doing here uh um yeah nothing at all to see here."

I did too I just didn't understand why they were lying to Iris. I guess because clancynwas hunting him but...I don't know. It just seemed like they all freaked out when they should have been like 'this is ronnie'. Edited February 18, 2015 by Shanna

[cambridgeguy]

 

Did Ronnie and Kaitlyn make time for "back from the dead" sex? I really think they should have set aside some time for that.

That would be really, really awkward for Stein.  That's also true for Ronnie if Stein and his wife did the deed. 

 

If Eiling really was killed then that's a waste of a good character and actor.  Him knowing about Barry and Wells is a problem but Grodd could always do some mind control to shut him up.  Having a high ranking puppet in the military is a useful thing.

Edited February 18, 2015 by cambridgeguy

[wayne67]

If Eiling really was killed then that's a waste of a good character and actor.  Him knowing about Barry and Wells is a problem but Grodd could always do some mind control to shut him up.  Having a high ranking puppet in the military is a useful thing.

 

I'm pretty sure if an actual General was missing from an army base for more than ten minutes than it would escalate the situation rather than remove the threat the army/Government poses. I'm sure all those men will report his absence and check the footage from their security cams/drones/military satellite. They might even connect Wells cooperation as suspicious considering his character or use their credentials to seize everything at Star Labs which is so poorly secured that Martin Stein walked right into the room they were in without anyone noticing except Ronnie. *sigh*

 

Maximum security prisons shouldn't be easily accessed off the street. Must stop thinking, it'll only aggravate me. *sigh*

[patchwork]

I absolutely believe that Iris should look into Star Labs, there's a price to be paid when you keep someone out of the loop for ridiculous reasons.  Caitlin and Cisco might be friends, in a loose sense of the word, but this is the company that ran a high risk experiment which hurt a lot of people and despite the company being shut down the lights are still on and not only is Wells himself still working there but also a highly qualified doctor and technician. 

 

With all the odd things going on in the city someone should be connecting the dots. 

 

But this storyline coupled with the worn out trope of Girl Realises She Loves Boy Because He Moves On is going to cause Iris to lose more fans than she gains. 

[shrewd.buddha]

Making Iris the only one in the 'family' that doesn't know things isn't cool. And the lies aren't very good, so I'm okay with her snooping. There's no real justification for keeping her out of the loop, except for typical drama. 

 

Same goes for there being no reason for Stein and Ronnie to leave town. The military knows where the Lab is and where their family and friends are. The military should also know about Barry. The General is gone, but surely he didn't keep everything to himself and there were always men with him.

..But again, comics ... so, okay..

 

Did it bother anyone else the amount of time that Barry spent super speeding back and forth without his super suit with or without passengers? Or that the special gizmo Ronnie was wearing disappeared when they separated the second time ?

 

The show is fun, but there's a lot of this stuff happening. Why does Flash stop at the worst times? Just because he needs to get caught sometimes? Who is feeding the prisoners? Who is paying the power bill for Star Labs? The list goes on.. 

[Sakura12]

I definitely get Iris investigating Star Labs and Mason being nice to her because she has an in. Caitlin and Cisco are hardly Iris's friends. They are acquainted with her through Barry. They really don't owe her anything, however Caitlin looked more guilty lying to her than her actual best friend Barry and her father! She's also a terrible liar. However I will give her some leeway since the fiance she just got back just joined with another man and then left town. Lying to Iris isn't going to be a top priority. 

 

I want Iris to be more involved in the main plot and since no one is telling her anything, I'd rather she find out on her own. Does she even know that Barry hangs around at Star Labs? She probably figured he befriend the people that took care of him for 9 months, but she has no idea that Barry "works" at Star Labs. So she's not really investigating any of her friends, she's investigating the place they work at and the man that is responsible for changing people into something else.  

[Lokiberry]

I absolutely believe that Iris should look into Star Labs, there's a price to be paid when you keep someone out of the loop for ridiculous reasons.  Caitlin and Cisco might be friends, in a loose sense of the word, but this is the company that ran a high risk experiment which hurt a lot of people and despite the company being shut down the lights are still on and not only is Wells himself still working there but also a highly qualified doctor and technician. 

 

With all the odd things going on in the city someone should be connecting the dots. 

 

But this storyline coupled with the worn out trope of Girl Realises She Loves Boy Because He Moves On is going to cause Iris to lose more fans than she gains. 

Clearly, every reporter in town should be investigating Star Labs, but then again, every reporter in town should have noticed all the metahumans rampaging through the streets every week. The issue, I think, is that we've spent umpteen episodes having it drilled in our heads "IRIS MUST NEVER KNOW!!!11!", and now that it looks like she's going to figure it out, some people are going to have a reflexive fear of what will happen when she does. How many of you had the "Oh no!" moment when she was mildly "grilling" Caitlyn and Cisco? Why? Because IRIS MIGHT FIND OUT!! Why is that bad? BECAUSE IRIS MUST NEVER KNOW!! Um. . .? NEVER!!

 

Once she finds out, and there's no "Local Scientist's Boyfriend Returns From the Dead With Hair on Fire"  headline splashed across the newspaper, the bad feelings will go away.

 

The love double-triangle, OTOH, is gross and maddening; and will continue to annoy people until it ends, with somebody getting amnesia, or being revealed to be a frog-eating clone (bonus points if you get that reference).

Edited February 18, 2015 by Lokiberry

[patchwork]

Clearly, every reporter in town should be investigating Star Labs, but then again, every reporter in town should have noticed all the metahumans rampaging through the streets every week. The issue, I think, is that we've spent umpteen episodes having it drilled in our heads "IRIS MUST NEVER KNOW!!!11!", and now that it looks like she's going to figure it out, some people are going to have a reflexive fear of what will happen when she does. How many of you had the "Oh no!" moment when she was mildly "grilling" Caitlyn and Cisco? Why? Because IRIS MIGHT FIND OUT!! Why is that bad? BECAUSE IRIS MUST NEVER KNOW!! Um. . .? NEVER!!

 

Once she finds out, and there's no "Local Scientist's Boyfriend Returns From the Dead With Hair on Fire"  headline splashed across the newspaper, the bad feelings will go away.

 

The love double-triangle, OTOH, is gross and maddening; and will continue to annoy people until it ends, with somebody getting amnesia, or being revealed to be a frog-eating clone (bonus points if you get that reference).

 

Lois Lane, The New Adventures of Superman - Do I get a cookie? 

[MarkHB]

I understand and respect the role of investigative journalism. But I can't think of any investigative journalist that garnered their information by spying on family and friends. My problem is not that she is a journalist, it is that she showed up at Jitters to casually ask questions to further her investigation. Is this what journalist do? Hide the fact that they are even acting as journalist to trade on personal relationships to get info? That's effed up if true. I can see tabloid journalist doing crap like that, but I can't imagine the crew at 60 minutes pulling that kind of stunt.

 

I've always thought of Iris's paper being the "Central City Picture News," and manifestly in tabloid-format, as indicating that it runs a lot closer to the New York Daily News / Post ideal rather than, say, the Times.  But I also try to keep in mind that at this point, Iris isn't a journalist; she's some blogger they brought in because she seems to have an "in" with The Flash, and now that she's there it's fallen to Mason to get her to do something to justify her paycheck.  She's pretty much a glorified intern at this point.

 

I was glad that they specifically mentioned she doesn't work at Jitters anymore.

 

Supergirl is not a spinoff of this show. Its just written by the same team.  I'm talking about a spinoff on this network. Like how they have a possible Atom one in the works.

 

They may not be launching Supergirl off of one of the two existing CW shows, but most of what I've heard is that she's expected to exist in the same universe that they do. However, a honcho at CBS (I forget her name) has also said that they won't be allowing her to actually crossover with the CW stuff for a while.  Incidentally, we have a Supergirl forum up and running, if you want to join us!

 

Personally, I was fine with all the Firestorm stuff, but I am far more interested in the Nora Allen Murder storyline and the buildout of the DCTVU than I am in the character relationship/ romance or not.  Plus, I am working under the assumption that Barry and Iris will inevitably wind up together, and so everything between now and then is like watching Columbo: you know the ending and the fun is in seeing how you get there.

[jah1986]

I enjoyed this episode. But some things just make me head hurt. How was Firestorm able to separate into two different bodies? Where is the other body when they are merged? Why does Ronnie's body get to be the body we see.

 

How old is  Barry supposed to be? Because when Joe said he was his guardian it took me out of the scene. Minors need guardians not grown men. What the what?

 

When Iris finally finds out the truth it's going to be ugly for all concerned.  Her character just feels shoehorned in at this point. It's too bad because I don't dislike her character.

 

I thought Wells was operating the yellow suit remotely, now he's wearing it. I'm so confused.

[bluebonnet]

I've made an effort to not focus on the prison and the other unethical and immoral things Team Flash does.  But I just can't help it.  I really need to know if Flash paid for that pizza.  Did he tip?  

[Amelie06]

 

She was asked to stop blogging because of the danger it posed to her. It had nothing to do with Flash who obviously didn't mind since he kept seeing her even after she refused and took the name she gave him in her blog.

This is not accurate. Barry and Joe asked her to stop because it was dangerous to Iris. The Flash asked her to stop because he didn't want the exposure. The fact that he continued to see her is irrelevant considering we know it was Barry, crazy in love with Iris that kept coming around. It is still a valid argument that Iris's interest in the public's right to know may outweigh any other concerns, just like with her blog.

 

All this being said, I agree with this...

 

there's a price to be paid when you keep someone out of the loop for ridiculous reasons.

The real issue I have with this story is that it shouldn't be a plot at all. It makes no sense for everyone to basically have a "No Iris's Allowed" club. This is especially true since she has been taken hostage or threatened multiple times. There is no way that this story should have gone on for this long. I will be ok with Iris if she goes about her investigation through legit means. (And if she doesn't, inadvertently or otherwise, block Barry and Linda.)

 

I didn't know what to think about the scene of Ronnie telling Caitlin that they were going to move.  He wasn't a dick or anything, it just instantly made me think of a man insisting a woman give up her career for him. Caitlin had just told him all these stories about the great things she was doing that obviously meant something to her and he responds with, "That's great. Now pack your shit. I'm tired of weirdness." I understand why he felt that way, so it didn't make me dislike the character. But I was side-eyeing him in that scene.

[Sakura12]

Barry paid for the flower he got Linda. So I'm assuming the poor pizza person found the pizza gone, his/her hair all messed up and money in their hand. 

[Sandman]

There is no friggin way that they thought that Joe forgetting about his daughter coming over to cook is funny. No way. Also is he ever going to visit his daughter at her place or is Iris required to put forth all the effort in that relationship.

 

How old is  Barry supposed to be? Because when Joe said he was his guardian it took me out of the scene. Minors need guardians not grown men. What the what?

 

The seams were definitely showing in the writing for this episode. Barry's age has been established in dialogue at 25, as I recall; maybe Joe still thinks of himself as Barry's guardian, but Barry's an adult. It's a contrivance even for him to be living at Joe's house now, to say nothing of Iris's Tuesday dinner(s).

 

But now I really want to see a headline like "Local Scientist's Boyfriend Returns From Dead With Hair On Fire."

 

It's not even the biggest contrivance here, but I have real trouble with how free a hand General Eiling seems to have to torture and kill civilians and to run operations to create supersoldiers -- or whatever his pet project is.

[bluebonnet]

Barry paid for the flower he got Linda. So I'm assuming the poor pizza person found the pizza gone, his/her hair all messed up and money in their hand. 

Good point.

 

And now I'm wondering if mussed hair is a form of assault.  I've kinda felt that Barry's mini-destruction of an area when he speeds through can be considered some sort of violation against property.  There has been a lot of property damage, for sure.  I'm assuming Central City taxes will be increases tenfold in the coming years.  

 

But what of what he does to a person's body?  Could someone file a sexual assault charge if his speeding needlessly (as opposed to on his way to save the city from a threat his mentor created) through an alley causes their clothing to fly up and reveal parts they'd rather remain unseen?  Skirts and shirts all askew, so to speak?  For myself, if someone laid their hands on me such that it caused my hair to become wildly disarrayed, I'd feel assaulted.  Is it different when it's the wind tunnel from a meta human?  

[driedfruit]

I'm surprised that Wells and Stein weren't getting their funding from the military tbh. It would explain a lot of things, like how Wells can still afford the bills at Star Labs and his fancy home. 

[Sakura12]

Good point.

 

And now I'm wondering if mussed hair is a form of assault.  I've kinda felt that Barry's mini-destruction of an area when he speeds through can be considered some sort of violation against property.  There has been a lot of property damage, for sure.  I'm assuming Central City taxes will be increases tenfold in the coming years.  

 

But what of what he does to a person's body?  Could someone file a sexual assault charge if his speeding needlessly (as opposed to on his way to save the city from a threat his mentor created) through an alley causes their clothing to fly up and reveal parts they'd rather remain unseen?  Skirts and shirts all askew, so to speak?  For myself, if someone laid their hands on me such that it caused my hair to become wildly disarrayed, I'd feel assaulted.  Is it different when it's the wind tunnel from a meta human?  

 

It's a comic book show, you can't think too hard about real world physics. Because for me when Barry punches someone at super sonic speed his fist should go completely through their skulls and their brains should be splattered on the ground. Yet, somehow they all act like he regular punched them with maybe a little bit more force. I don't see Barry learning to control his punch speed, just his running which we already know he can do show. 

 

The thing that bothers me is Barry isn't learning his "with great power, comes great responsibility" lesson. He just keeps doing the same stupid thing and winning in the end. I know they are trying to keep this show lighter than it's brother show, but I don't feel that Barry's learning anything. I could fanwank that Wells is doing that on purpose for some nefarious reason but no one else is questioning Barry's methods. At least on Arrow they questioned Oliver's killing ways and showed him finding another way. 

 

I try to go along with the cheese, but there is such a thing as better cheese. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

I'm still trying to figure out how Eiling and the military knew so much about F.I.R.E.S.T.O.R.M. ?  Were they funding Prof. Stein's research ?

 

Why does Ronnie's body get to be the body we see.

 

It is on 'The CW' after all.

 

I thought it was incredibly stupid of Barry to grab that bazooka projectile -- it could have been high explosives for all he knew instead of white phosphorus.  He should have just deflected its trajectory.  And while running in circles to create a vacuum might have stopped the phosphorus from burning through his suit temporarily, the minute he stopped running the phosphorus should have continued to burn again once it was back in the presence of oxygen.  Because of ... you know ... science.

 

Did anyone else find it odd that Cisco referred to the events of the poison gas metahuman as "Week 3" -- because it was episode 3.  Does Cisco base all of his references from when Barry woke up ?

Edited February 18, 2015 by ottoDbusdriver

[Sakura12]

Why does Ronnie get to be the body? Because he's younger and has abs. 

 

I have a feeling if they do get a Firestorm show, Victor Garber will just be doing voiceover work. It's too bad they couldn't get Lena Olin to play Stein's wife. Of course then I'd think she was an evil spy working for the bad guys. 

[In2You]

Please no Firestorm spinoff.  I don't want to sound racist or sexist but CW really needs to stop doing comic shows with white male leads. Three is enough ( assuming Atom actually becomes a show).

The next spinoff should be Static. I don't know why they are limiting him to a cartoon on their online platform no one uses when he had a successful TV cartoon.

[Shanna]

The real issue I have with this story is that it shouldn't be a plot at all. It makes no sense for everyone to basically have a "No Iris's Allowed" club. This is especially true since she has been taken hostage or threatened multiple times. There is no way that this story should have gone on for this long.

This is basically where I am. I am not going to enjoy iris snooping on her friends for the paper because that's kind of a friendship no no. But lying to your friend about important stuff is also a friendship no no. So they've basically set up a story where I am going to hate everyone's actions. Good job guys!!

I am glad that Barry's stupid habit of showing his face to everyone blew up on him, but this adds some complications to the show that I'm not totally confident they will follow up on. Unless Clancy was the only one who knew and he gets eaten by grodd or something. We will see.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Shanna

[CooperTV]

Why does Ronnie's body get to be the body we see.

 

Because the Firestorm comics.

 

I'm surprised that Wells and Stein weren't getting their funding from the military tbh. It would explain a lot of things, like how Wells can still afford the bills at Star Labs and his fancy home.

 

Wells can afford his fancy home and the Star labs bills probably because he's a shady time-traveling individual/Reverse Flash, and can get insane amounts of money at the shortest notice.

[FurryFury]

God I really don't care about Firestorm. The fact that this storyline involves two of the weakest actors, Robbie Amell and Danielle Panabaker, is probably the biggest reason, but the writing also isn't that good. Ronnie has basically zero characterization, we're supposed to care about him why? Because Caitlyn does? Sorry, Caitlyn isn't that awesome herself.  Still, nice to see Victor Garber in a bigger role. He can act circles around Robbie, and he certainly does. I guess Ronnie was put on a bus until season finale? Hope so, don't really care to see him again anytime soon. I actually don't mind Caitlyn with basically any other character on the show, but when she's with him, I want to fall asleep.

 

Also, a big NO to the idea of Firestorm show. This actor has already ruined one show, AFAIK (Tomorrow People). Don't give him another one.

 

Iris' subplot, for once, was OK. I like the reporter dude. I even thought they had some kind of chemistry. And I'm definitely all for her being more involved in the main plot because I don't give a damn about her role as a love interest.

 

Overall, I think I'm gradually losing interest in the show. The last few episodes were definitely weaker than the first batch.

 

But they made such a fuss at TCA about Garber being a! gay! actor! (along with John Barrowman and Wentworth Miller) that I have a hard time buying Martin/Clarissa now.  Sexual orientation promotions should be about the character, not the actor.

 

Well, I didn't know Garber was gay, but he had absolutely sizzling chemistry with Lena Olin on Alias, so I guess being a good actor trumps your IRL sexual orientation. There are other examples, too.

Edited February 18, 2015 by FurryFury

[Oscirus]

Maximum security prisons shouldn't be easily accessed off the street. Must stop thinking, it'll only aggravate me. *sigh*

 



The writers don't give a damn about things like plot continuity or things making sense or character development. They just want you to sit back and look at the pretty special effects.

 

I've made an effort to not focus on the prison and the other unethical and immoral things Team Flash does.  But I just can't help it.  I really need to know if Flash paid for that pizza.  Did he tip?

 

 

Well since he tipped the coffee guy after one of his many stunts out of costume, I assume that he tipped the pizza person.  Also, somewhere in that universe, there's a customer infuriated by the fact that his pizza's taking so long.  Sometimes Flash can be a real prick.

 

 

[driedfruit]

Wells can afford his fancy home and the Star labs bills probably because he's a shady time-traveling individual/Reverse Flash, and can get insane amounts of money at the shortest notice.

But he needs a cover for where he got the dough. Especially now that Iris and Joe are digging around for inconsistencies. 

[Shanna]

But he needs a cover for where he got the dough. Especially now that Iris and Joe are digging around for inconsistencies.

He owns a huge tech company which at some point presumably made money. That I have no problem with.

Furryfury, I am with you on the Ronnie/firestorm situation. As far as I know, he Caitlin's relationship is based on looks and proximity, which is fine but I'm not exactly invested. Of course, I was hugely invested in victor and his wife's relationship, so I'm sure most of the issue is acting.

[Chicago Redshirt]

"So how is it that Joe (and later Barry) has a key to house that he doesn’t live in and that’s occupied by someone else? Then to top that off, the mirror camera thingy that Cisco created is still perfectly set-up as if it was never broken down. Where was the owner of the house? Away at the movies again?"

 

For someone who is not Barry, Joe moves pretty fast too. 

 

"Did Dr. Stein just forget that Wells drugged him so that the Army could take him into custody?"

 

We know that Wells drugged Stein through his drink. Stein does not necessarily know what happened to cause him to pass out. Wells's story seems to be that Eiling and his men stormed in and he couldn't stop them because chair. Eiling plausibly could have tranqed Stein.

 

"My only disappointment was that Joe came around to trusting Harrison so quickly AGAIN. If time travel is possible then surely Harrison could still be the guy in the yellow suit."

 

Joe was told by Cisco that the other sample is not Wells. Now there are probably quite a few explanations for that -- in the previous episode thread, I listed three that would still have Wells be the killer. But based on the assumption that Cisco is competent at his job and didn't let Wells know he was doing a DNA analysis, the non-Barry blood not matching Wells seems to be pretty strong evidence that Wells isn't the killer.

 

"I understand and respect the role of investigative journalism. But I can't think of any investigative journalist that garnered their information by spying on family and friends. My problem is not that she is a journalist, it is that she showed up at Jitters to casually ask questions to further her investigation. Is this what journalist do? Hide the fact that they are even acting as journalist to trade on personal relationships to get info?"

 

I think that if a real-life investigative journalist were friends or acquaintances with someone who worked at a lab that caused an accident that killed X number of people and mutated various others into supervillains, that yes, those investigative journalists would use all the tools at their disposal to get to the bottom of it, including leveraging those relationships for information. It may not be pretty, but such is life. 

 

"Except Barry has personal first hand experience that Wells was told by Pied Piper that the particle accelerator was dangerous and ignored it to continue on heedless of the dangers of experimentation. Pied Piper was then cut out by Wells for dissenting. Then there's the metahuman prison that has no oversight, the use of Tony as a decoy, the dead bodies that are just disposed of without Barry being concerned at all."

 

Being told there's a chance that the particle accelerator was dangerous and going forward doesn't inherently make Wells shady, nor does his firing Piper.

 

I don't think Barry explicitly knows that Wells used Tony as a decoy. He only knows that Tony got out somehow. 

 

For whatever reason, Barry, Cisco, Joe and Caitlin are all on the secret prison plan, and all of them are supposed to be morally upstanding characters. So in Flash-world, Wells being behind it is not a warning sign of shadiness either.

[statsgirl]

I'm going with Joe feels like he's Barry's guardian still after all those years of looking after him.  ecause unless Barry has been ruled inczpable, there's no reason he should need a guardian now.  Living with Joe makes sense in a "better housing, less cost, more friendship" kind of way.  It's lonely living alone for both Barry and Joe.

With all due respect, this is unfair and complaining just to complain.   Iris' "friends" are lying to her.  And I use friends loosely here since she and Caitlin are merely acquaintances.  Let's also not forget that Caitlin asked Iris to investigate the burning man thing.   Furthermore, Star Labs had possession of Barry's body and made his medical decisions for eight months.  I would think the audience would be pissed if she didn't do her part to investigate Star Labs since her actual best friend could have been victim of whatever is going on there.  How could anyone respect Iris' character if she didn't do her job, didn't investigate a company that wrecked havoc on a city, and didn't investigate knowing her bff had been in the clutches of that that company for a significant period of time? 

Is Iris an investigative journalist now?  She's half-way through one journalism course, so pretty much no skills or experience.

 

If Barry doesn't care what's going on at Star Labs, why should Iris? It feels like an intrusion into his personal life to investigate what happened to him because he's an adult and it's up to him to decide if Star Labs is shady or not.

 

But okay, let's say she's going to investigate. My problem with her is that she's using her friendship with Caitlin, Barry and Cisco instead of either being honest with them and telling them she wants information from them, or investigating without involving her friends.

 

As for friends lying by keeping secrets, count me as guilty.  I signed a bunch of confidentiality agreements at work, so I guess by not telling my friends what I do, I guess I'm lying too.  I think my patients would thank me for that though.

[Primetimer]

Ronnie and Stein find it hard to stay apart.

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