S01.E06: Out, Damned Spot

[Milz]

If Jamal's boyfriend gets pissed because Jamal said he doesn't have a girlfriend that's just stupid. Bro you're a guy not a girl, the question was specifically,"What does your LADY think."

 

Mr. Milz said the same thing. With gay couples, does one partner take on the  "traditional" male role and the other take on the  "traditional" female role in a relationship? (Sorry if I've offended anyone but I don't know how else to put it into words.) Anyhow, I think Michael was upset because he could feel Jamal becoming more distant, hence his conversation with Cookie. And the way Michael just stood there on the other side of the club, separated from Jamal is very telling :-(

 

I also didn't like what Cookie said to Jamal about Michael.  "Cooking school?"  Whoever wrote this episode hasn't been to the Culinary Institute of NY.  I was just there in November, and it's NOTHING to sneeze at.  Besides, being a chef is muy importante, because everybody needs to eat.  I can see Jamal getting a big head and losing his  humility.  Now he thinks he's a big star and is too big for someone like Michael.  Cookie should know, because of her age and because she knows the business, that the music business if fickle, you're hot today and gone tomorrow and it's best to have relationships with people who keep you grounded.  I used to believe like Cookie did, you find a partner on your level.  But that's bullshit because what you need is a partner that you can live with and be partners with and you help each other.  Just because someone is on your level, doesn't mean you can live with them.  

 

I think Cookie's reaction to Michael's culinary school is spot on. Here's why.  I think Cookie is the "typical" mom who thinks no one is good enough for her sons. As she told Jamal, she likes Michael but doesn't think he's on Jamal's level (read: doesn't think he's good enough for Jamal).  Michael could be like Mark Zuckerberg or Bill Gates and I think Cookie still won't think he's good enough for Jamal. And I think Cookie feels the same way about Rhonda: she's not good enough for Andre/Andre could do better.

 

RE: Courtney Love "playing" a has-been, drug addicted, artist? Not much of a stretch, imo.

 

Hakeem: It would have been better if Jamal told him off when he (Hakeem) was sober.

 

BBK: keep your hands off Porsha! Porsha has to stay Cookie loyal.

[Racj82]

This one was good!  The best episode thus far IMO.  The building duplicity of Uncle Vernon and Andre against Lucious was noticeably great.  Poor Michael!  Cookie was right.  He's going to be cast aside for Jamal's reigning success.  This just in:  Uncle Vernon knows that Andre is bipolar.  Andre threatened to slit Vernon's throat if he put his hands on him again.  I think this show is FINALLY getting somewhere.  HEE HEE!

Finally? I don't know where you've been. I think the show has been great from the jump. It isn't killing in the ratings for nothing.

[Neurochick]

Mr. Milz said the same thing. With gay couples, does one partner take on the  "traditional" male role and the other take on the  "traditional" female role in a relationship? (Sorry if I've offended anyone but I don't know how else to put it into words.) Anyhow, I think Michael was upset because he could feel Jamal becoming more distant, hence his conversation with Cookie. And the way Michael just stood there on the other side of the club, separated from Jamal is very telling :-(

 

 

I think Jamal is making a mistake casting Michael to the side.  Cookie can't see that because she has a blind spot when it comes to Jamal.  I don't know if Cookie loves Jamal more than her other sons, but Jamal is her favorite, I think because she sensed early that he was different and also Lucius treated him horribly.  She seems to neglect her other sons.  Cookie is like some of those mothers I would see on that TV show Intervention.  The child who was the addict would get all the attention, while the other children were neglected.

 

But what really gets me about Cookie is, why is she so jealous of Annika?  Does she want Lucius that badly?  I mean she should tell Annika that she can have his crusty ass.  When I was a teenager I remembered seeing two girls fight over some douchebag of a guy and you know what happened?  He dumped them both.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Neurochick

[Malbec]

I think Cookie's reaction to Michael's culinary school is spot on. Here's why.  I think Cookie is the "typical" mom who thinks no one is good enough for her sons. As she told Jamal, she likes Michael but doesn't think he's on Jamal's level (read: doesn't think he's good enough for Jamal).  Michael could be like Mark Zuckerberg or Bill Gates and I think Cookie still won't think he's good enough for Jamal. And I think Cookie feels the same way about Rhonda: she's not good enough for Andre/Andre could do better.

 

 

I think it makes sense that Cookie would resent Michael and Rhonda because they represent her sons "moving on" to more important relationships while she was in prison.  Additionally, with Michael, she was so clearly projecting her own issues with being left behind.  That said, I thought Cookie was out of line with her spiel to Michael and Jamal should have corrected things more firmly.

[Milz]

 

But what really gets me about Cookie is, why is she so jealous of Annika?  Does she want Lucius that badly?  I mean she should tell Annika that she can have his crusty ass.  When I was a teenager I remembered seeing two girls fight over some douchebag of a guy and you know what happened?  He dumped them both.

 

I huge piece of me was hoping Olivia was Lucious' "side piece" and Lucious is the baby-daddy. And then we could watch a Cookie-Annika beat down on Lucious.

 

 

I think it makes sense that Cookie would resent Michael and Rhonda because they represent her sons "moving on" to more important relationships while she was in prison.  Additionally, with Michael, she was so clearly projecting her own issues with being left behind.  That said, I thought Cookie was out of line with her spiel to Michael and Jamal should have corrected things more firmly.

 

I agree Cookie was projecting her past. I think Cookie can see Jamal is moving in another direction from Michael and it would have been worse if she told Michael not to worry and everything will be okay with him and Jamal.

[damalanop]

But what really gets me about Cookie is, why is she so jealous of Annika?  Does she want Lucius that badly?  I mean she should tell Annika that she can have his crusty ass.  When I was a teenager I remembered seeing two girls fight over some douchebag of a guy and you know what happened?  He dumped them both.

 

 

Good question. Last night I wondered the same thing, and realized that I think Cookie's attitude toward Annika isn't so much about Lucious, but more about Annika taking over and trying to push Cookie out of what she (Cookie) built.  Annika wasn't there when Empire was born, and didn't do all the hard work and grinding to get the label off the ground, yet she is running around calling shots AND telling Cookie to kick rocks.  That's where I think Cookie's issues with Annika come from.

 

Vernon is starting to be an interesting player on this show.  He laid in the cut in the first couple of episodes, but now? Making all kinds of moves and calling people on their BS?  I like it!

 

Based off last night I am wondering who is going be first to meltdown, Andre or Hakeem?  I know the promos showed Andre in some sort of state, but Hakeem looking at those pics of Tiana seemed as if he was about ready to cause some destruction. Both of them are ticking time bombs at this point.

 

Someone upthread called Lucious as Olivia's baby daddy and I'm going to have to agree.  When the camera cut to him in that last scene, I was like, "Yep, you are the father!"

 

I'm still loving this show in all its soapy glory.  The thing I like is that the writers/creators started down the soap opera path, and they are sticking with it!

[jenrising]

I think Jamal is making a mistake casting Michael to the side.  Cookie can't see that because she has a blind spot when it comes to Jamal.  I don't know if Cookie loves Jamal more than her other sons, but Jamal is her favorite, I think because she sensed early that he was different and also Lucius treated him horribly.  She seems to neglect her other sons.  Cookie is like some of those mothers I would see on that TV show Intervention.  The child who was the addict would get all the attention, while the other children were neglected.

 

But what really gets me about Cookie is, why is she so jealous of Annika?  Does she want Lucius that badly?  I mean she should tell Annika that she can have his crusty ass.  When I was a teenager I remembered seeing two girls fight over some douchebag of a guy and you know what happened?  He dumped them both.

I really don't think we've seen enough of the family before Cookie left to know who got the attention back then, and I've not seen anything that suggests she neglected the other boys. But now Jamal is the only one of her sons who wants anything to do with her. So what should she do? Ignore him to be fair to Andre and Hakeem? She's trying to get her life together and can only do that with people who are willing. 

 

Cookie's jealous of Annika because she's slotted herself into what Cookie's life should have been. With her man and her company. I think it's clear Cookie and Lucious still have feelings for each other. He moved on because she was gone for so long, but she didn't. It's got to be confusing. And his mixed signals aren't helping. I don't think Cookie really wants him back, but it's a lot of churning emotions. Plus, as far as we know, she hasn't gotten any in a VERY long time, and hey, the devil you know...

[ZaldamoWilder]

From the recap:

 

This scene also caps the episode's commitment to new or minor characters. Suddenly, for instance, I have to remember that Jamal's boyfriend is named Michael because he actually matters to the plot

 

LMAO!!!!!   I didn't know that I didn't know his name until I read this. 

 

And for a queer actress to play his heterosexual dalliance just ups the deliciousness.

Please ciss and decease from trying to make *up* happen, it is not now, nor ever will be, a verb.   There is no such action word as ups.   

 

I'll admit that I expected more catfighting between Elle and Cookie that would play up Love's own reputation, but instead the show suggests these two troopers are going to join forces against a world that writes off women all the time. The idea of them as teammates is even more appealing than.
(Sidebar: how is it possible that Cookie and Elle never met before? The timeline about Cookie's incarceration is really unclear to me.)

 

So two things.  Thing one –  ER. MAH. GERD.   More appealing than….what??  ::stabbyJoanCrawfordvoice::   No...Cliffhanger... Thoughtbubbles!   Don’t say first of all if you don’t have a second of all.

Thing two? The word sidebar is mine, mine, MINE.   I bought it from Merriam Webster like a week agooo. You owe me $1000 for vocabulary infringement.   Please be advised that if I see the following:   finna, muffucah (spelled thusly <--) g’uh, g’awn or any other ZaldamoWilder-specific word/phrase show up in another recap without my prior written consent, you will hear from my attorney.

 

Why is there an accent aigu on Raven Symone’s name if we pronounce it the same way we do Nina Simone? 

 

Cookie:  Am I giving you baaah-deee?  LOL!!!   Yes girl, yes you are.   and p.s. Taraji, your next hustle is to put out an exercise dvd because baybee? them cakes? is done bakin.  Snatched to the gawds. Yes ma'am.

 

Vernon:  Sorry I choked you out.     Guess it’s safe to say dre can quit calling him Uncle.

 

If Michael has issues with the way Jamal answered the question that's silly. Michael isn't a lady or the woman in Jamal's life.

 

Irlandesa covered it.  I was finna say Sway’s final question was “there’s no one special in your life?”   Which is where Jamal can no longer use the technicality of semantics to even pretend at a raggedy ass excuse for intentionally misleading answers.   Maybe it's because it's not to her benefit or because Cookie might not be the one to do this but he was also simply not prepared to be interviewed.  An everybody-wins response is "I don’t really like to talk about my personal life."

 

Vernon as Olivia Pope.   Hiring a random ex-con to take the fall for murder.  Because, what could go wrong?   Homicide has no statute of limitations right?  Okay.  So you’re going back to prison for an amount of money that can fit inside a briefcase.... which you have no guarantees will ever reach your family.  Like a sum that is the equivalent or greater than what you could earn with your freedom.  Snarkkitty syndrome.  Imma quit pulling threads but it's haaaard.

 

I’m in the minority;  I never would’ve thought Courtney Love has acted before.  Because she was Turr’ble.   And considering she was basically portraying a version of her former self I don't even know how you do that.

.

I forgot to mention that it was good to see Derek Luke although I hated his hair.

 

Thank you.  A whole bunch of yum and all I could concentrate on was the part.  Wasteful.  Don't make me look AWAY from this man Fox. 

 

I liked this episode -- BUT, there was nothing about the cliffhanger from last week. Cookie ordered an unneeded hit on someone. Cookie doesn't even reference that (besides the rose from Lucious) in this episode... did Cookie magically forget she just got someone killed?

 

See I didn't think it was a cliffhanger.  If they're trying to keep authentic to hood mentality, dude's dead and she did it, there's nothing else to really talk about.  If there is, to whom?

 

I also didn't like what Cookie said to Jamal about Michael.  "Cooking school?"  Whoever wrote this episode hasn't been to the Culinary Institute of NY.  I was just there in November, and it's NOTHING to sneeze at.  Besides, being a chef is muy importante, because everybody needs to eat.  I can see Jamal getting a big head and losing his  humility.  Now he thinks he's a big star and is too big for someone like Michael.  Cookie should know, because of her age and because she knows the business, that the music business if fickle, you're hot today and gone tomorrow and it's best to have relationships with people who keep you grounded.  I used to believe like Cookie did, you find a partner on your level.  But that's bullshit because what you need is a partner that you can live with and be partners with and you help each other.  Just because someone is on your level, doesn't mean you can live with them.  

 

Guh? That Hyde Park jawn? Is. The. Business.    Yeah it might be a niche career but so what?  I just can't get with the idea that being with a man who loves cooking is a bad thing lol.  That and the fact the Michael actually seems like more than a decent, supporting and loving dude means I want her to quit interfering. He could easily do way worse.   All Jamal has to say is if you believed that on your level mess, you never could've been with daddy so hursh.

 

When a woman from your past shows up and brings her child with them, you don't do some mental math right quick?  Why do men always look legit surprised at the possibility?  Yes I'm thinking about Maury shows, don't judge.

[Malbec]

I agree Cookie was projecting her past. I think Cookie can see Jamal is moving in another direction from Michael and it would have been worse if she told Michael not to worry and everything will be okay with him and Jamal.

 

I don't think she needed to sugar-coat things, but I think she let bitterness get the better of her when she was talking to him.  Which is understandable, but ultimately she wasn't helping.  

[mtlchick]

 

Is there a recent artist modeled after Courtney Love's character? I can't see someone like her to sell so many records in these times.

She made it seem that she keep Empire afloat for the first few years so that would put it at roughly what, the early 2000s?  If that's the case, that was at the time when Napster was on the rise but there were some artists that could easily hit 1 million in albums sales in their first week.  I see it as a cross between Whitney Houston and Britney Spears: both were HUGE money makers at their peaks, then entered their own downfalls. 

 

 

The table lamp between Cookie and Lucious in the nightclub is a new $15 one from Ikea.

 

Awesome.  Can you PM me the link?  I may have to locate that one here.

[Neurochick]

Cookie's jealous of Annika because she's slotted herself into what Cookie's life should have been. With her man and her company. I think it's clear Cookie and Lucious still have feelings for each other. He moved on because she was gone for so long, but she didn't. It's got to be confusing. And his mixed signals aren't helping. I don't think Cookie really wants him back, but it's a lot of churning emotions. Plus, as far as we know, she hasn't gotten any in a VERY long time, and hey, the devil you know...

 

 

Cookie can do so much better than greasy Lucius, but I see what you mean.  Cookie feels that Annika stole "her life."  I think that's a stupid concept, like your life was siting over here and Annika just stole it.  

[SoapDoc]

 

[snip]  So you’re going back to prison for an amount of money that can fit inside a briefcase.... [snip]

 

I just listened to the conversation again and Vernon asked his friend if he had someone who had a murder they could not beat. Meaning this is someone who was already on his way to jail so he was just adding to his current sentence. Now his family gets some money since he was going in anyway. Probably not a bad proposition for the criminal.

 

If Jamal was the father of the little girl, I would not be totally surprised. Judging by how Lucious acts about his sexual orientation, I fully believe that Lucious spent the last years pushing and trying to "change" Jamal. Cookie was not there so his main support was not present and perhaps he was not strong enough to stand up to his father and up from himself even a few years ago. I would not be surprised if the little girl was Lucious' either. I m interested to see where this goes.

[gazebo]

Poor Michael!  Jamal is changing because of his success and Michael will have to learn to change also.  I hated the way how Cookie talked so bad of Michael, like studying to be a chef is nothing!  Michael has aspirations too and he's doing the right thing for a career, how can you think of him so little, Cookie?  I guess for Cookie, no one is good enough for her son.  However, I think the advice she gave to Michael is sound.  Michael better become more interested in his own life than always trying to be a part of Jamal's life.  I can understand why Jamal wouldn't come out in public about his love life because he wants to make it as a singer.  I also understand how hurt Michael felt about Jamal still being in the closet.  Good soapy stuff!  I can't wait to see the fireworks between this couple when Jamal tells Michael that Jamal has a kid!

 

Cookie in that sexy purple getup under her fur coat was just astonishingly sexy!  I LOLed when she turned around and smacked her purple satin clad ass in front of her family and then walked out!  I can't believe she still thought she had a chance with Lucious!  I mean, she knows that Lucious has moved on with Anika, doesn't she?  Or is Cookie delusional?  Yep, that Love is still there.........!

 

Courtney Love does an excellent imitation of a washed up singer.  I found her performance to be quite realistic.  That's one sad looking stringy blonde woman.  I was disappointed that that storyline seem to end so abruptly.  Will Cookie be able to manage this washed up singer?  Will the singer be back up to her game?  Will we find out next week?  I'm really curious.

 

 

[Milz]

 

Cookie in that sexy purple getup under her fur coat was just astonishingly sexy!  I LOLed when she turned around and smacked her purple satin clad ass in front of her family and then walked out!  I can't believe she still thought she had a chance with Lucious!  I mean, she knows that Lucious has moved on with Anika, doesn't she?  Or is Cookie delusional?  Yep, that Love is still there.........!

 

Courtney Love does an excellent imitation of a washed up singer.  I found her performance to be quite realistic.  That's one sad looking stringy blonde woman.  I was disappointed that that storyline seem to end so abruptly.  Will Cookie be able to manage this washed up singer?  Will the singer be back up to her game?  Will we find out next week?  I'm really curious.

 

The reaction of the sons was funny. Jamal's mouth wide open and eyes bugged out. Hakeem turned away and couldn't even look. Andre looking horrified and trying to hide it by taking a drink.

 

Don't get me wrong......I loved Nirvana. I liked Hole. Based on the last 10 years of Courtney Love's  music career------I don't think she was imitating a washed up singer. (one album release between 2005 and now....) Also, I think her cosmetic surgery decisions over the years really destroyed her beauty. She's always looked like a heroin junkie, imo, but she was beautiful. Now.......

[JessePinkman]

This was by far my favorite episode. I've had issues with the camera work and editing in previous episodes, I'm big on cinematography and editing that completely draws you into a show's world, this was the one aspect of the show I've found lacking. But last night they really took a step forward (it actually started last week but this week took it up a notch).

 

From the way the camera receded from Lucious sitting in his living room with him dead center to the way they had the entire family leaving the Empire offices as Olivia fought with the security guard, they brilliantly hid her from view to save the reveal of not just Olivia and the little girl but also Raven Symone. Despite some questionable things she's said recently I don't think people realize the goodwill Raven Symone has with two generations of people, from The Cosby Show to That's So Raven. 31 year old me and my 17 year old both have a lot of love for her and her acting.

 

Cookie, as always, was played and written brilliantly. TPH and the writers totally get this character, there is no finding a character's voice here, she's been there from jump and I love it.

 

And now they're finally defining the other characters just as well. Jamal wants fame but he doesn't want to be obvious about it, I think most musicians who do it for the love want the same thing but they want to avoid the stigma that comes with "selling out", which is basically doing with you love and getting paid for it. Isn't that what we all want? What is so bad about ambition? It's only bad when you have to sacrifice or hide a part of yourself for it and unfortunately that's what he's doing. I'm interested to see how far down the wormhole he goes.

 

Andre, even on meds, knows what he's capable of. He knows that if he let himself go a few days with his medication he would follow through on his promise to Vernon. 

 

Some of the Courtney Love stuff was iffy, it felt superfluous but it gave us Cookie, as well as Cookie and Anika interaction which is always fun. I just don't know how it serviced the overall story. 

[scarletregina]

 

Please ciss and decease from trying to make *up* happen, it is not now, nor ever will be, a verb.   There is no such action word as ups.   

 

Do you mean "cease and desist?" 

 

I meant to say this last week regarding Cookie/Lucious/Anika, but it's just as appropriate here: Last week really pushed me over the edge in thinking that Lucious doesn't love Anika. He proposed to her so that her father would lie and say Lucious is in good health. That's the only reason. I'm sure he cares for Anika, but he's in love with Cookie.

[Timetoread]

I was wondering this too.  I saw her as maybe intended as someone who was a Stevie Nicks/Joni Mitchell type of artist back in her day (albeit "her day" would've been 20 years after those two).  Maybe??? 

 

I was thinking Pink (who started in R&B) or Cheryl Crow or perhaps Alanis or one of the Lillith ladies (who were singer songwriters).

 

 

Did it have a view?  I was noticing how seedy it looked, their scenes in the kitchen.  

 

I can see her scoffing at culinary school.  They're one of those things that makes money for the school more than making qualifications for the grad.  I think a tiny percent of culinary graduates ever work as respected chefs, and most respected chefs didn't get a degree.  

 

I didn't buy Cookie assuming a lunch invite at a restaurant from Lucious was a bootie call, without there being a lot more than a rose on their anniversary to suggest it.  

 

It wasn't just a rose.  He secretly dropped by early in the day to leave the rose and then dropped by later in the middle of the night to do what? Talk?  Two solo trips to her place in one day to chit chat?  He's been eye banging her since she got out and can't be within feet of her without his hands touching some part of her.  I get her believing he was down for some.  Truth is that he was.  But the difference between Cookie and Lucius is that Cookie follows her heart and Lucius goes in the opposite direction.  I don't fault Cookie for still having feelings for the man she married and whose sons she birthed, even after he did her wrong.  Would that we all had the strength to surgically remove n'er do wells from our hearts when they show themselves unworthy.  But most of us mortals struggle, for sometimes years, to get over people that we truly loved.

 

As for the chef thing.  Cookie is not a sophisticate.  She doesn't hear culinary school and think Pierre Franey or even Bobby Flay.  She thinks of a fry cook at McDonalds.  I don't think she was looking down on Michael so much as acknowledging that soon Jamal is going to "outgrow" the world he and Mike now inhabit and that it would be in Michael's best interest to not pin his self worth on his association with Jamal because Jamal may or may not bring him with him.  She knows from experience, Lucius left her behind.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Timetoread

[DollEyes]

  As this episode proves, Empire is still great after all these weeks. It's still as suprising as, say, Cookie's wearing lingerie to a family dinner. Speaking of which, Lucius' announcing his engagement to Anika there was a disaster, as Cookie's reaction proved. Speaking of diasater, that's what Lucius' confession to Vernon about killing Bunkie could be to Vernon and his sobriety. If the guilt doesn't wreck Vernon, his addiction might. Vernon & Lucius' bribing someone to take the fall for Bunkie's murder could backfire on them if the guy gets greedy; otoh, if he ends up in the same prison as Titan, Lucius could make up some bullshit story about him being part of causing  the fire that destroyed the community center that was Titan's second home, which wouldn't sit well with Titan, to put it mildly.

 

  Lucius' desperation also extends to his health, hence his newfound belief in illegal Russian treatments which, according to his other doctor, are "very promising" where ALS is concerned. I don't believe that the FDA's always right either, especially after seeing Dallas Buyers Club, but this so-called "promising" treatment sounds sketchy, at best. Experimental drugs, alternative medicine and even home remedies have all saved lives at one time or another, but when it comes to incurable diseases like ALS, just "prpmising" wouldn't cut it with me. I would want real, hard evidence about the drug itself, how it works, the side effects and the success rate. I would also get numerous opinions, not just one, since it's my life at stake.

 

  Anika's attempt to poach Porsha from Cookie was a bad move on her part. if Cookie's willing to beat one of her own sons with a broom for disrespecting her, then I shudder to think what she'd do to Boo-Boo Kitty. That's a catfight begging to happen.

 

  Courtney Love did better than I expected. She's a trainwreck IRL, but she's also a talented actress, as she proves in The People Vs. Larry Flynt.

[Timetoread]

I huge piece of me was hoping Olivia was Lucious' "side piece" and Lucious is the baby-daddy. And then we could watch a Cookie-Annika beat down on Lucious.

 

I think Cookie resents Anika because she represents Lucius "upgrading".  Younger, smarter (in the sense of more educated), pretty and holding power over both the Empire and the Lyon family.  But the truth is that the engine behind the animosity is that Anika herself acts out of her own insecurity.  Honestly Anika doesn't have to do anything but quietly endure the sometimes presence of the baby mama.  She's got the man, the job and the house - what exactly is she fighting for?  She's fighting because she knows that her ground is shaky and Lucius goes where the wind blows.  She resents Cookie more than Cookie resents her.

 

As for Olivia.  My gut is telling me that she was a very young fling Lucius had and that the kid is his.  It was no accident that the first one to see and react to her was Lucius, not Jamal.  But I could totally see him send his hot young thang to ungay his son.  And Jamal, probably still struggling, acquiesced.  The timing worked perfectly - sex with Jamal and getting pregnant.  Why is she back now?  I believe Lucius called her up.  My guess is that he's been supporting that child all along and called her in to mess up Jamal's burgeoning success.  That's all I've got right now.

Vernon & Lucius' bribing someone to take the fall for Bunkie's murder could backfire on them if the guy gets greedy; otoh, if he ends up in the same prison as Titan, Lucius could make up some bullshit story about him being part of causing  the fire that destroyed the community center that was Titan's second home, which wouldn't sit well with Titan, to put it mildly.

 

Nah, that dude is going to die in prison.  Trust and believe. 

Edited February 12, 2015 by Timetoread

[ZaldamoWilder]

I just listened to the conversation again and Vernon asked his friend if he had someone who had a murder they could not beat. Meaning this is someone who was already on his way to jail so he was just adding to his current sentence. Now his family gets some money since he was going in anyway. Probably not a bad proposition for the criminal.

 

Thank you for this, I definitely missed this part of their conversations.   Threads remain intact. 

 

 

Do you mean "cease and desist?" 

 

LOL!!! scarlet, thank you for looking out for me love.  I'm mixing my tv worlds - this is from Real Housewives of Orange County.  One lunatic ass woman yelling at another.  Crazy girl thinks her castmate is spreading rumors about her and shows up with a letter to throw in not crazy girl's face.  The dramatic climax of the scene was crazy girl demanding that the offender "ciss and decease" from all further mention.  She had a reputation for flat out making up words and using em like they were legit anyway. :)

Edited February 12, 2015 by ZaldamoWilder

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Vernon had a JC/NY Undercover flashback, while choking Andre like he was Danny Cort!

[jenrising]

Cookie can do so much better than greasy Lucius, but I see what you mean.  Cookie feels that Annika stole "her life."  I think that's a stupid concept, like your life was siting over here and Annika just stole it.  

I'm 100% with you there. Cookie can and hopefully will do much better. And yeah, it's not logical to be mad at Annika for stealing her life, but it is natural and people in the real world certainly feel that way. 

 

Not to mention, Annika is everything Cookie isn't, as others have said. She's younger, cultured, comes from money and on and on. 

 

And I forgot to mention before, Lucious should be ashamed of himself for telling her about the engagement like that. He's lucky they were in public and Cookie was horny or he'd have a stiletto in the eye.

[TwistedandBored]

Raven-Symoné showing up was a total surprise for me. The fact that she is playing Jamal's messy baby mother is just a bonus for me. LMAO! I did not see that one coming at all! 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Cookie's eyeing Derek Luke up and down.  So hilarious.  Porsche doing anything, ever.  So hilarious.

 

Please ciss and decease from trying to make *up* happen, it is not now, nor ever will be, a verb.   There is no such action word as ups.

 

Don't think there's such an action word as "ciss".

 

"Up" is listed as a usable verb on www.dictionary.com.  For example, "To up the ante".

[gik910]

Loved the Raven reveal.

 

I am pretty firmly on Rhonda's train- I just want to follow her around and listen to her comments about everything!  Asking about the engagement was just the best.  

 

Poor Michael.  Just a decent guy trying to hold on to his love.

[Ohwell]

We also learned that Michael is doing something! He's going to culinary school!  That doesn't tell us that he's paying his own way though and not living off of Jamal (what is Jamal living off of now?). Going to school is not a job.  I kind of loathe it when people label school as an occupation.  Student is not a job description.  Don't get me wrong, I have no problems with people who have the means to just go to school but it's still not a job.

To be fair, Michael didn't suggest that going to culinary school meant that he had a job.  He just told Cookie he was going to culinary school.  Maybe he's a waiter or works in a restaurant kitchen or something to pay for school.  Maybe it'll come out later how he's paying for it.  Personally, I've not heard anybody referring to going to school as having a job.

 

I can see her scoffing at culinary school.  They're one of those things that makes money for the school more than making qualifications for the grad.  I think a tiny percent of culinary graduates ever work as respected chefs, and most respected chefs didn't get a degree.

The graduates might not be "respected chefs" like Wolfgang Puck or Jose Andre, but they might be chefs nonetheless in nice/decent restaurants.  It's still a career and, frankly, to me it beats a hit or miss "career" doing rap/hip hop or whatever one calls it.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Ohwell

[drivethroo]

I don't fully trust Security Guy.

 

Malik Yoba was crusty back in the 90s.  Read up on comments about his perpetually ashy lips.

 

I think Cookie has a problem with Anika because her blood, sweat & tears built the Empire Boo Boo Kitty is luxuriating from. 

 

Olivia may or may not be Luscious or Jamal's baby momma. But I wouldn't be surprised if Luscious called her in at this moment to get the rumors out there that Jamal has a baby momma (and thus is straight).

[ZaldamoWilder]

Don't think there's such an action word as "ciss".

 

"Up" is listed as a usable verb on www.dictionary.com.  For example, "To up the ante".

 

Lol, blue jay scroll up a couple posts, I explain ciss usage to miss scarlet.  

 

Ain't is also in the dictionary, that ain't finna make it right.

[SnarkKitty]

Cookie:  Am I giving you baaah-deee?  LOL!!!   Yes girl, yes you are.   and p.s. Taraji, your next hustle is to put out an exercise dvd because baybee? them cakes? is done bakin.  Snatched to the gawds. Yes ma'am. 

 

#cookiecakes = is trending like a mug. (<--- no copyright infringement, I can't afford a case!)

 

 

Irlandesa covered it.  I was finna say Sway’s final question was “there’s no one special in your life?” 

That's 'cause Sway ain't got all the answers!

 

 

Thank you.  A whole bunch of yum and all I could concentrate on was the part.  Wasteful.  Don't make me look AWAY from this man Fox.

 

See, that's why you play too much.

 

Courtney Love does an excellent imitation of a washed up singer.  I found her performance to be quite realistic.

 

Hahahaha!! That's hilarious ... oh wait, you were serious?

Edited February 12, 2015 by SnarkKitty

[Neurochick]

Courtney Love, I believe was nominated for Golden Globe and won some critics awards for "The People Vs Larry Flint."  

 

I'm 100% with you there. Cookie can and hopefully will do much better. And yeah, it's not logical to be mad at Annika for stealing her life, but it is natural and people in the real world certainly feel that way.

 

 

True, that happened to me, for about an hour, until my BFF slapped the shit out of me and told me I was acting like a damn fool, angry at a sorry man who wasn't worth my time, letting a fool rent space in my head.  That's what Cookie needs, a good female friend.  

Edited February 12, 2015 by Neurochick

[LydiaMoon1]

This one was good!  The best episode thus far IMO.  The building duplicity of Uncle Vernon and Andre against Lucious was noticeably great. 

 

 

ITA.

 

Best Scene Of The Night:

Cookie and her lingerie antics.  What else?

Honorable Mention: “Sorry I choked you out”

Worst Scene Of The Night:

Not worst, just saddest.  The scene with the guy willing to go to jail to give his family a chance at a better life.  Reminded me of Cookie.

 

I know this is a show about the music industry, but in coming weeks I'd like to see/hear less of the music and music videos *coughHakeemcough* and more of the characters, their relationships with each other, etc.   

See, I think the show works best when they use the backdrop of music and the music industry to reveal each character layer by layer.  Within the industry setting, the characters truly become multi-dimensional because we see how their pasts, present, and futures collide.  For me, last week’s episode felt like a really bad blaxploitation movie, where every black person was automatically a violent criminal or a criminal enabler.  By contrast, this week I saw people who were able to solve their problems with money, savvy, and intellect.  Yes, not every black person has Empire-style resources to work with, but, then again, most black people don’t commit stickups and drive-bys and arrange contract murders either. 

 

All three of the sons are weenies- Jamal is the least weenie, but still. Hakeem is like a 12 year old- he reminds me a bit of Chris Brown, petulant, entitled, marginally talented etc, etc. And Andre wasn't threatening at all when talking about slitting throats.

Yeah.  Jamal showed his cowardice once again. What happened to all of his I’m Coming Out speeches? Meanwhile, Hakeem again showed his petulant immaturity, and Andre busted out the same ‘I’ll slit your throat’ threat to Vernon that BBK said to Cookie.  Is that a rich kid thing?  Somebody might want to remind them they’re talking OGs. Speaking of Hakeem, he needs to stop it with the ‘I’m so wounded, I’m so hurt’ act.  As Tiana very wisely reminded him; he had a sidepiece too.  If she’s rubber, he’s definitely glue.

 

I loved this episode until the very end. I can't believe this show busted out the clicheed, tired, and ridiculous 'gay guy has a long-lost love child'. This is something I expected at the end of season 3/beginning of season 4 as ratings started their inevitable collapse. But the end of episodes 6? Seriously.

I actually liked that Jamal might have Baby Mama drama.  He could use some layers other than being the resident saint gay.  He was seriously in danger of becoming one note. And I can’t blame the show for throwing in everything plus a bag of chips at this point.  They didn’t know Empire would become a runaway hit.

 

Actually, I don't think Jamal's music is that great but then I'm old, but it's a lot better than Hakeem's. 

Although it's been MANY MOONS since I listened to rap music, I actually like Hakeem’s music better. I can at least imagine hearing Hakeem's songs being played in the club.  His music is catchy, and he has great beats.  So far, I’ve found Jamal’s music to be very pleasant, but very forgettable.

[Timetoread]

ITA.

 

Best Scene Of The Night:

Cookie and her lingerie antics.  What else?

Honorable Mention: “Sorry I choked you out”

Worst Scene Of The Night:

Not worst, just saddest.  The scene with the guy willing to go to jail to give his family a chance at a better life.  Reminded me of Cookie.

 

I just wanted to add: Best Line of the Night:

Lucius:  "You mean that 3 1/2 minute piece of crap that he keeps telling me to kiss his ass?"

 

BTW - you don't have to feel sorry for the guy going to jail.  They picked a guy who was going to jail for life ANYWAY so that a trumped up murder charge doesn't really make a difference.  He was probably already a murderer.  By taking this rap, he can at least keep his family fed.  Smartest dumb thing he's probably ever done.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Timetoread

[CaughtOnTape]

I have never laughed harder at an episode of TV then I did when Cookie threw her jacket open to reveal lingerie at a family dinner.

 

*drops mic*

 

I love this show.

[Ohwell]

One more thing about Cookie this week:  When she was telling Michael that he should find someone on his level, I said to myself, "really? Cookie?  So Michael isn't good enough for Jamal when his momma just got out of jail for 17 years for selling drugs?"  I still love Cookie but she needs to think about what she's saying sometimes.  Just because she's dressing well and eating good doesn't mean she should go around dissing other folks. 

 

I called Malik Yoba crusty (and he is) but Vernon is becoming my new favorite character.  I think he's interesting and I'm looking forward to seeing where his story goes.  Crusty ass and all.  

[LydiaMoon1]

I just wanted to add: Best Line of the Night:

 

Lucius:  "You mean that 3 1/2 minute piece of crap that he keeps telling me to kiss his ass?"

 

Yeah, you're right.  That WAS the best line.

 

ETA: Although I like Hakeem the least, I'm actually more concerned about him than Jamal or Andre.  Hakeem is such a lost little boy pretending to be a man.  I feel sorry for him.

 

BTW - you don't have to feel sorry for the guy going to jail.  They picked a guy who was going to jail for life ANYWAY so that a trumped up murder charge doesn't really make a difference.  He was probably already a murderer.  By taking this rap, he can at least keep his family fed.  Smartest dumb thing he's probably ever done.

Oh, I missed that part.  That does make me feel better.

Edited February 12, 2015 by LydiaMoon1

[Guest]

I don't fault Cookie for loving Lucious.  Just for assuming a date in public was a booty call.  Especially if he drops by her apt. whenever he feels like.  

 

I also don't think "chef" or even "cook" is not respectable.  But I've known grads from respected high $$$ culinary schools that couldn't find work in the field at all, at least not anything past the usual entry level jobs anyone can get.  Maybe that was Cookie's point.  Culinary school is more a hobby for a kept person than job training.  

 

I thought Love's acting was terrific.  My gripe was that she went from shitty to great as a vocalist that easily.  I know they have to make Cookie seem like a musical miracle worker but come on.  That was just short of waving a magic wand.  

 

 

[Timetoread]

I feel sorry for Hakeem too.  He keeps pushing away what he needs the most.  Not a woman in bed who lets him call her Momma, but his Mommy.  Her absence seemed to hurt him the most.

[Neurochick]

Although it's been MANY MOONS since I listened to rap music, I actually like Hakeem’s music better. I can at least imagine hearing Hakeem's songs being played in the club.  His music is catchy, and he has great beats.  So far, I’ve found Jamal’s music to be very pleasant, but very forgettable.

 

 

I can actually see people dancing to Hakeem's music, I was even hearing "Drip Drop" in my head a few days ago.   I forgot Jamal's song until last night's episode.  I would have laughed if the football player told Cookie he thought the song sucked.  

[funkopop]

I can actually see people dancing to Hakeem's music, I was even hearing "Drip Drop" in my head a few days ago.   I forgot Jamal's song until last night's episode.  I would have laughed if the football player told Cookie he thought the song sucked.  

 

The Darkchild remix to Dollar Bill seemed to be doing pretty well in that club Cookie and Jamal attended.  I did have Drip Drop stuck in my head for a few days after last week's episode, though.

[Raja]

Yeah.... I'm all for soapy plot twists, but the baby might be a bridge too far. I'm kinda hoping it's a one-shot bit of nonsense.

I was wondering this too. I saw her as maybe intended as someone who was a Stevie Nicks/Joni Mitchell type of artist back in her day (albeit "her day" would've been 20 years after those two). Maybe??? In all honesty, this was the first guest shot that didn't really work for me. The way they built CL's character up as someone whose music could get you through the darkest of times, I really didn't buy it when she finally appeared. Acting-wise she was OK, but a little miscast maybe.

I was thinking that her sound was 60s and perhaps someone like Aretha Franklin moving over to a hip-hop label to give it credibility. From the time frame maybe Mary J. Bilge.

[tmelange]

I liked the Elle Dallas storyline and wish it had been given more time to breathe. Bringing in another genre of music is smart, because while I love hip hop and RnB, I also love certain artists in other genres. And there has always been a few white performers heavily in favor in black communities, such as Teena Marie and Hall and Oates. Anyway, I read a Courtney Love interview, and she said she based her performance on 90s-era divas, such as Whitney Houston (in particular) and Mariah Carey -- divas who lost their voices through drugs and whatnot and who have faded from their glory days.

 

As for Michael, we don't know much of his story, but it seems as if has has been living off of Jamal and by association Lucious. He's in his twenties and seems to have no job, no college degree and is talking about enrolling "in the future" in cooking school. Meanwhile, he's encouraging Jamal in that "I'm an artist who doesn't have to make money for a living...because it's all about the art..." ennui. Jamal needs someone around to encourage him to hustle, not retreat into his head because his first album flopped and he's too afraid to keep pushing. I think that's why Jamal's personality and relationships are going to change (especially with Hakeem). With Cookie propping up his confidence, that passiveness he had going on is going to fade away. If Michael is upset that Jamal's priorities have shifted, it's only going to get worse, and he needs to prepare.

[Scarlett45]

tmelange- Didn't Michael say he was currently in culinary school? And a prestigious one at that? Being with Jamal may give him connections regarding celebrity chefs, being a private chef efc. I don't fault someone for not working if they are in school full time when they can afford it.

[tmelange]

Scarlett45 - I'll have to go back and watch to see what he said. I agree with you, though. I see no reason to cast aspersions just because he wants to be a chef. There is a lot you can do with that. However, we don't know enough about Michael to know where he really fits in Jamal's world, whether he's an asset or an anchor. I look forward to seeing it get sussed out in the future.

[Timetoread]

I was thinking that her sound was 60s and perhaps someone like Aretha Franklin moving over to a hip-hop label to give it credibility. From the time frame maybe Mary J. Bilge.

 

Um no.  Cookie was incarcertated for 17 years.  We're in 2015.  This was late, late 90's.  Think J Lo, Janet Jackson, Christina Aguilera, TLC, Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston (later years) or Lauryn Hill.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Timetoread

[Tiger]

I actually liked that Jamal might have Baby Mama drama. He could use some layers other than being the resident saint gay. He was seriously in danger of becoming one note. And I can’t blame the show for throwing in everything plus a bag of chips at this point. They didn’t know Empire would become a runaway hi.

This episode, and to a lesser degree the last, was already doing a really good job of adding layers to Jamal. And not knowing whether or not a show will hit or not does not give producers an excuse to throw any and everything at the wall. This is something I would have expected out of Days of our Lives circa 2005, not a primetime show in 2015. And even if a kid wasn't involved, I think the reveal that Jamal at least once slept with a woman completely undermines and goes against the character presented thus far. The whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth, both as a television viewer in general and for admittedly personal reasons.

As for the spec by many here that it's really Lew-shush's kid, and/or that Lew had her seduce Jamal and has been paying her and brought her out now to stop any 'Jamal is gay' stories that might be out in the press, I still think its a desperate and pathetic plot twist. Same for just giving Lew a long-lost kid. Lee Daniels aught to leave that kind of stuff to Ken Corday.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Tiger

[Vixenstud]

Mm-mm-mm!  Taraji Muhfuckin’ Henson!  She is gold and had better be nom’d at next year’s Emmys.  When that heathen took off her coat I howled!  Body is bodacious!

 

Hey Derek Luke, Gumby called...he wants his part back!  Once Cookie rides the baloney pony again I’d prefer it be Cuba Gooding’s, as his character really seemed to be into her.

 

 

Hakeem – Alan Iverson-looking mf.

 

 (You stupid Ohwell, LMAO!)

 

 

Didn't Malik Yoba used to think he was hot during his New York Undercover days?  He sure looks crusty now.  Vernon knows all.  Do not underestimate him.

 

I think because MY looks so old is why I had my Aunt Esther fish-eye on him and turns out I was right, I never trusted him from the beginning.

 

 

Andre is really freaking me the fuck out.  I actually believe he would cut Vernon's throat if they ever get into a confrontation again.  And, I don't even want to know what he and Rhonda will do with the knowledge that Lucious killed Bunky.

 

Yeah, Andre/Rhonda/Vernon are dangerous, with Rhonda leading the pack.

 

 

Loved Andre's "wash your hands first" to Vernon because that's exactly what I was thinking.

 

Hell, I screamed it out loud!  Nasty shit like that is my biggest pet peeve.

 

 

Hakeem is never getting over his mommy issues with that move Cookie pulled earlier at dinner, lol.

 

How much ya’ll wanna bet that Naomi Campbell will rock that outfit courtesy of Hakeem in a later eppy? 

 

 

Hakeem's music is just lame.  Actually, I don't think Jamal's music is that great but it's a lot better than Hakeem's.

I like all of the songs I’ve heard so far…the tracks that stand out are ‘Drip Drop’ (I got Mr. Stud goin’ drip-drop-drip-drip-drip-drop!  Um, okay.  Maybe singing this song at 50 ain't cute so I'll stop!) and the hardcore track Hakeem made up in the studio.  Jamal’s aren’t bad either, especially ‘Keep Your Money’.

 

 

I think it's clear Cookie and Lucious still have feelings for each other.

 

Yup, and judging by the ‘this season’ scenes it looks like they will share a kiss.

 

 

Ain't is also in the dictionary, that ain't finna make it right.

 

Shit like that as well as your name Zaldamo Wilder is why I love you so!

 

Neurochick and Smart Kitty, ya’ll sisters?  Your pics look just alike, lol.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Vixenstud

[Soup333]

The table lamp between Cookie and Lucious in the nightclub is a new $15 one from Ikea.  I just bought one last weekend.  It's adorable.  

 

Funny, you mentioned it because my daughter said something about it being nice. I wasn't paying attention.

 

I think the love child will be resolved, and it won't be Jamal's. 

 

I don't know who the daddy. Could be anybody, including Hakeem, who would have been young as hell, but...it is Hakeem. I love Raven. I'm soooo happy to see her on this show. Lawd. 

 

This show just gives me life. I done picked my jaw up off the floor too many times in one night. 

 

The entire Lyons family need to get they life. Olivia and somebody little child included. 

[LydiaMoon1]

This episode, and to a lesser degree the last, was already doing a really good job of adding layers to Jamal.

All I saw in episodes 1-5 were Jamal is gay, Lew mistreats him, Cookie protects him. Lather, rinse, repeat. YMMV.

 

And not knowing whether or not a show will hit or not does not give producers an excuse to throw any and everything at the wall.

Empire's ratings have risen every week since its premier.  I think their strategy is working out okay.

Edited February 12, 2015 by LydiaMoon1

[SnarkKitty]

Neurochick and Smart Kitty, ya’ll sisters?  Your pics look just alike, lol.

Not to my knowledge. LOL.

(But I think we're in the same city so ... :D)

[Syndicate]

Finally? I don't know where you've been. I think the show has been great from the jump. It isn't killing in the ratings for nothing.

Oh I've been right here since the beginning.  The show just didn't really kick off FOR ME until last night.  Varying mileage and all that?

Edited February 12, 2015 by Syndicate