S05.E09: What Happened, And What's Going On

[JackONeill]

How will they cope with the colder weather in Washington?  (last winter, it was brutal up in those parts.)

 

I'd stay south.  Except there you have mosquitoes.  They're worse than walkers.

 

Out of our current group, we have three virtually useless people: the Padre, Eugene and Noah.  So, though we have numbers, I think those numbers mislead.

[ghoulina]

The writers make the whole group of them look stupid with being endlessly "on the run" .  They have no problem finding vehicles, enough gas to travel 500 miles, and an endless supply of baby food, but can't find any place to settle for a while?  I'd like them to stay in place long enough to have some good character interactions and development.

 

I was actually with Michonne last night, when she was trying to convince Rick to stay in the subdivision. I liked her mentality of finding ways they could make it work, instead of finding every reason it can't. Trees are blocking their vision? Start cutting them down. But yea, they simply cannot just keep being on the run forever. They need to find a place and do what it takes to make it livable. They don't have the luxury of searching and searching for the perfect place. Start getting creative and resourceful and make what you've got work for you!

[Pete Martell]

IMO, the major difference between Tyrees and Gabriel is their backstories.  Outside of that, they are pretty similar characters.  I do think Tyrees brought more to the show than Gabriel has.  Tyrees was at least willing to fight and protect people.  He just had a problem killing people.  Still, I don't think it was any great surprise that once Gabriel joined the group, that Tyrees' days were numbered.  Even though I consider Gabriel more of the run away and leave everyone to fend for themselves type of dude.

 

ETA:  I am surprised that no one yelled at Noah for being partially responsible for causing Tyrees' death.  Anyone who runs off on their own, ought to be left to fend for themselves. 

 

As for the movement of the group, there are still far too many characters and not enough air time for them all.  TPTB needs to thin out the herd sooner than later.  I don't think that can happen if the characters lie low for awhile.

 

I think the show doesn't do well with a limited amount of characters (but then I'm one of the few who is happy when they split up, as I have no desire to see the lackluster group dynamics of seasons 1-3 again). A larger group means more reactions, more diversity, etc.

 

I feel like Gabriel's just starting his journey, so I could see him maybe becoming more active. 

 

They probably don't blame Noah because they knew he was upset about his family, and they were still in shock/focusing on saving Tyreese. At this point most of them seem too drained to have big reactions.

[JackONeill]

I lived near the Ohio River.  IN the middle of the river was an island.  It had some homes and businesses.  It might take some work but you could take a boat to the island and clean out the walkers.  Then you've got yourself someplace to call home.  (Until Walkers learn how to use a surfboard.)

 

But seriously, it's possible to find a place and make it work.

 

But, like I said earlier, that's a different show.  That's a show about smart people.

Edited February 9, 2015 by JackONeill

[mandolin]

I enjoyed the episode overall. Even if I didn't like the Governor, seeing him gave me that ol' nostalgia I always get for the old Walking Dead days (for me, seasons 1-3). I thought it was kind of abrupt for them to be FIVE HUNDRED MILES away that quickly. It also kind of tells me they could've been moving all this time, but what's the point? As far as they know, the whole world is dead.

 

Someone way upthread mentioned that Karen couldn't come because the show wasn't filming in GA anymore? I'm not sure about her deal, but they show still films there. Right next to Woodbury a lot of the time.

 

Speaking of, I loved the shots of the prison and Woodbury. Part of this show that gets me is the "journey" and passage of time of it all. What was.

 

I was also happy with the ep because my two people, Rick and Michonne were present. I can't take that splitting up crap when I go weeks without seeing them, for any reason.

I think the show doesn't do well with a limited amount of characters (but then I'm one of the few who is happy when they split up, as I have no desire to see the lackluster group dynamics of seasons 1-3 again). A larger group means more reactions, more diversity, etc.

 

I chuckled at this as right after I posted mine just above saying I hate the split groups, I saw you had posted this. :)

Edited February 9, 2015 by mandolin

[SoSueMe]

I lived near the Ohio River.  IN the middle of the river was an island.  It had some homes and businesses.  It might take some work but you could take a boat to the island and clean out the walkers.  Then you've got yourself someplace to call home.  (Until Walkers learn how to use a surfboard.)

 

But seriously, it's possible to find a place and make it work.

 

But, like I said earlier, that's a different show.  That's a show about smart people.

I remember an old, old, movie where Nazi zombies walked up out of the water to attack. I wish I could remember the name so I could try to find it. It was pretty scary at the time.

[JackONeill]

There was also a zombie movie in which a zombie (somehow) got in the ocean and a shark came after him and the zombie wound up biting the shark.

Edited February 9, 2015 by JackONeill

[ottoDbusdriver]

I remember an old, old, movie where Nazi zombies walked up out of the water to attack. I wish I could remember the name so I could try to find it. It was pretty scary at the time.

 

There is also the movie 'Land of the Dead' where the zombies not only could walk through water to get on an island, they could handle tools like hammers, chainsaws and guns.

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0418819/

Edited February 9, 2015 by ottoDbusdriver

[AndySmith]

We lost Tyrese but still got to keep Noah? And Gabriel? Why? The world of TWD really is an unjust and unfair one.

 

While it was nice seeing Bob, Beth, Mika, and Lizzie again, I do wish they could have gotten the actress who played Karen back too for this episode. And I could have totoally lived without seeing the Governer again. Ever.

 

Is it just me, or was this episide a little more...over directed/edited than usual? In a "Please nominate for some Emmys" kind of way?

Edited February 9, 2015 by AndySmith

[RustbeltWriter]

If you join Rick's group with a family you can pretty much bet your ass that family will be split up in short order. Only the Grimes are allowed to survive intact, more or less. Amy and Andrea? Carol, her husband an Sophia? Darryl and Merle? And now Sasha and Tyrese. Sorry folks, only one family member is allowed to stay in the group.

 

I'll miss Tyrese and I echo the criticism that the group is not allowed to have a moral center that questions the brutality of this new life. Why beat the viewers over the head with it? Some of us would enjoy seeing a debate about how they make their way and what they do. I still miss Dale.

 

Michonne is right about needing to settle down. People need a home to form a society. Being hunter gatherers will not work. Judith will be the last human born if they keep to this gun and run lifestyle.

[Pete Martell]

If you join Rick's group with a family you can pretty much bet your ass that family will be split up in short order. Only the Grimes are allowed to survive intact, more or less. Amy and Andrea? Carol, her husband an Sophia? Darryl and Merle? And now Sasha and Tyrese. Sorry folks, only one family member is allowed to stay in the group.

 

I think some of that is just an issue when characters are on a show for a certain length of time. They're killed off to provoke reactions, from their family, or other characters. The couple and their son who were with Tyreese and Sasha weren't with Rick's group but were killed off. Tara's father, sister and niece were killed before she joined Rick's group. Hershel, Maggie and Beth survived two and a half seasons intact with Rick's group.

 

They do seem to be playing up the whole losing-a-sibling part of the story more now, though (at least until they only have Maggie and Sasha get one or two scenes about it - then I'll eat my words).

Edited February 9, 2015 by Pete Martell

[that one guy]

I'm torn about this one. I liked the trippy visuals. I liked the scenes with Chad Coleman in them, he was brilliant in his sendoff. But some of the other scenes, especially in the first half, were just people debating things that weren't going anywhere, and reminded me of the farm.  There were moments when I was thinking, "this is just not good." It picked up when Tyreese got bitten, but still, Coleman won't be on the show next week and I worry they may get bogged down again.

- Was that Andrew Lincoln's voice on Tyreese's internal radio (the British accent)?

 

Yes! And the fact that you can't tell whether he's reporting on the zombie apocalypse or just your regular 21st Century non-supernatural atrocities is sort of the rationale for this show.

[morgankobi]

The unfair wolves are my favorite thing today. 

I envision the town clearing walkers, burying their dead, setting up defenses, fortifying walls and then the wolves start coming. Cue Gob voice, "Come on!"

[AndySmith]

I echo the criticism that the group is not allowed to have a moral center that questions the brutality of this new life. Why beat the viewers over the head with it? Some of us would enjoy seeing a debate about how they make their way and what they do.

 

True, but debates about morality and the meaning of life post ZA have never been among this show's strong points. At all.

[islandgal140]

So long Tyrese, you big sexy koala bear. I hope Karen is feeding you eucalyptus leaves in heaven.

 

The first few minutes before the intro rolled I sorta hated. It just felt like a completely different show with the try hard artistic shots (blood dripping on a photo - really?) and how disjointed it all felt. I was like WTF is this The Tree of Life? Am I watching a Terrence Malick film? However, when you take the entirety of the episode and bookend the intro and the end, it was quite lovely and a fitting homage to Tyrese. I still wish they hadn't killed him so soon after Beth died, but nobody asked me.

 

I'm glad he's gone.  I just watched the whole damn marathon and the Tyreese character was annoying more than anything.  What, did he have one semi-date with Karen?  And then her death destroyed him. 

 

 

 

I am of the belief that Tyrese's biggest regret regarding Karen is that he didn't get a chance to hit that! 

 

It really is disconcerting seeing Michonne, the weapon with a weapon, seem on the cusp of losing it.

 

The second half of this season better feature Morgan significantly. He needs an episode and to meet up with the group. I swear on all that is television, if this show ends the season with another scene of Morgan checking scratches on trees I will show up on TWD set with a pitchfork and a torch. 

[Mu Shu]

There was also a zombie movie in which a zombie (somehow) got in the ocean and a shark came after him and the zombie wound up biting the shark.

That was Zombi 2 from Lucio Fulci.   A petty great scene, the shark/zombie fight. 

[Diane M]

Going to Washington makes no sense to me.  Even if the city has largely cleared out, there's bound to be a huge amount of zombies wandering around or trapped in buildings.  California weather would be best, but it's way too far for them to travel.  Instead of going north, they should have headed south to the Gulf where they could find some boats and go fishing.  Certainly, there would have been some place in one of the Gulf states to settle, make a home, plant crops.  And the winters wouldn't be as harsh as up north.  

 

Not enough Daryl (one little scene?) last night for me.

[catrox14]

That will surely be Michonne's swan song. Keep Rick and that awful beard away from Michonne!!!!

 

Sorry, my Richonne shipping set sail a long time ago and I'm not looking back. They will save each other. YMMV

[BrokenRemote]

Still sad over the loss of Tyrese.  He was one of my favorites.  He was human; I don't like a show where everyone is a badass fighter and always makes the right calls--that just turns into the Avengers or something.  I like a diverse bunch of humans who have flaws, some of whom aren't fighters--there are lots of roles to play in a group, and we know now you pretty much need a group to survive.  I do accept that everyone needs to learn to fight because it might be needed someday, and that a man with Tyrese's issues might die from his unwillingness to fight.

 

I feel like his problem was that everyone saw this big dude and assumed he was a brute and a great fighter.  They knew he had a temper, and that added to it. (Although we pretty much never saw his temper again after Karen's death and his flip-out on Rick and Daryle, despite everyone going on about how they were afraid of what he'd do when he found out about Karen, making us think that his temper was well-known)

 

His biggest mistake was not saying to the group 'Hey, I'm not a fighter. I'll do whatever heavy lifting you need, I'll watch the kids, I'll kill if I have to, but use me where I can do best."  If they'd heard that from him maybe they wouldn't have put him in positions where they were counting on him to fight and he choked.  I also think, if he'd lived, he would have eventually learned the lesson of Martin and steeled himself to do what was necessary if there was nobody else to do it.  

 

I did like the episode, though, and am glad Ty at least got a good sendoff.  I'm really glad we didn't get saddled with an hour of fallout from Beth's death.  We didn't get much fallout from other deaths--there were small moments among the other plots, but they didn't have time to spend on extended overt displays of grief.  I think we've seen more sobbing related to Beth's loss than any other I can recall, just with the couple scenes of Maggie losing it.  I was worried TPTB might have thought they needed to spend an episode showing Daryl in deep emo mourning to satisfy some subset of shipper viewers, and that's the last thing I hope we have to have an hour spent on.

 

I had a feeling they were going to go to D.C. and I don't think it's that bad an idea.  If there is any remnant of government, anyone working on fixing things (not just a cure, but logistics), they are probably in D.C.  Any big city is going to have a lot of Walkers--look at the first herd we saw in Atlanta around Rick in the tank in Season 1--so I don't think D.C. is no-go for that reason more than any other city, and the potential resources of a city might outweigh that risk (look what the Grady Hospital folks managed to scrounge together).   Frankly I'm just excited for a change of scenery.

[Spartan Girl]

I was NOT expecting another character death so soon.  As much as Tyrese could frustrate me (yes, he should have killed Martin), I was still sad to see him go.  I almost thought he'd make it when they finally cut off his arm, but it had already taken so long for the gang to get to him and he'd already lost so much blood.  And as someone else said, he was not meant for this world.

 

Poor Sasha.

 

The return of all the dead people was amusing...although why wasn't Karen on Tyrese's carpool to heaven?

[Raachel2008]

Island in the middle of a river, gated community, abadoned prison, taken hospital - it doesn't really matter. These people can't keep moving forever. Say what you want about the Governor and the nutcases at the hospital, but they had/have better chances of survival than people who are constantly running and may end in a blocked road with a hundred walkers. From a story telling point it gives them new challenges, while still having to go outside to look for food, water, etc. 

[MissScarlett]

The episode was different than any other episode on The Walking Dead. The beginning of the episode was reminiscent of Breaking Bad as many times the beginning of the episode would show some abstract thing that would then be shown clearly and to full extent later on in the episode.

 

Anyway, I kind of figured that Tyreese's days were numbered.  He wasn't my favorite character BUT as Tyreese himself pointed out he has been useful to the group.  He kept the kids safe and baby Judith safe and was able to return her to Rick.  I like that Tyreese was always able to keep his humanity -- above all else.  I LOVED the story he told about his father keeping the radio on so that his kids would be informed of what was happening in the world.

 

After Tyreese had been bitten, part of me felt like he wanted to give up.  The hallucinations he had of the different characters who had passed before him and their message of "It's better now"  -- that was him wanting to give up and wanting to lay down the heavy load.  The Governor symbolized the evil of the world they were living in.  Bob symbolized the fact that everything happens for a reason, because it was meant to happen.  Martin symbolized the "what ifs" and the guilt he felt  -- i.e. what if he had killed Martin when he had the chance?  Would Beth be alive?  Would Bob?

 

His death was kind of beautiful in a way.  So much deeper than seeing your life flash before your eyes.  More or less a rumination of current life in the zombie apocalypse, coming to terms with the choices he made and then in the end realizing that maybe for him... death was better.

 

Chad Coleman is an amazing actor.  His character wasn't my favorite on TWD... BUT it wasn't because of his acting.  I think the writers didn't write for Tyreese very well.  It's like they didn't know what to do with him.  In the end, he became zombie fodder. :(

 

Who else is sick of main group character deaths?  I guess I get why the writers do it. But... as an audience member, they are starting to lose me.  If Rick, Michonne, Carl, Daryl, Carol, Maggie or Glenn die, then I think I might be done with this show.

Edited February 9, 2015 by MissScarlett

[nodorothyparker]

I did like the episode, though, and am glad Ty at least got a good sendoff.  I'm really glad we didn't get saddled with an hour of fallout from Beth's death.  We didn't get much fallout from other deaths--there were small moments among the other plots, but they didn't have time to SPEND on extended overt displays of grief.  I think we've seen more sobbing related to Beth's loss than any other I can recall, just with the couple scenes of Maggie losing it.  I was worried TPTB might have thought they needed to spend an episode showing Daryl in deep emo mourning to satisfy some subset of shipper viewers, and that's the last thing I hope we have to have an hour spent on.

I had a feeling they were going to go to D.C. and I don't think it's that bad an idea.  If there is any remnant of government, anyone working on fixing things (not just a cure, but logistics), they are probably in D.C.  Any big city is going to have a lot of Walkers--look at the first herd we saw in Atlanta around Rick in the tank in Season 1--so I don't think D.C. is no-go for that reason more than any other city, and the potential RESOURCES of a city might outweigh that risk (look what the Grady Hospital folks managed to scrounge together).   Frankly I'm just excited for a change of scenery.

 

 

Sorry.  Quote function has completely stopped working for me.  

This was my biggest fear heading into this episode too, that we'd be subject to an entire however many minutes an episode is now between the interminable commercials wailing and gnashing teeth over Beth without moving the plot/group forward at all.  So whatever issues I had with the episode, it's still better than what I was afraid it would be.  And while Tyreese was never a favorite of mine because it felt like they could never quite decide on the writing for him and ended up with this big marshmallow mess, Chad Coleman always managed to do amazing things with what he had to work with.

I'm still not convinced on the wisdom of heading into a heavily populated area they have no advance knowledge of, but I absolutely get the need to keep moving toward something so they don't just give up and founder.  And whatever they head into still has to be better than yet another half dozen episodes wandering around interchangeable trees.

[JackONeill]

Now that they're gone hundred miles north, how in the world is Morgan ever going to catch up to them?

My quote function has stopped working, too.  Or, it could be, my computer doesn't like me. 

[bosawks]

If I had to choose I would pick the visons Ty saw in death over the snarling teeth that Shane was privy to....

[BrokenRemote]

Now that they're gone hundred miles north, how in the world is Morgan ever going to catch up to them?

My quote function has stopped working, too.  Or, it could be, my computer doesn't like me. 

Morgan will catch them because he didn't know they were going to Virginia.  He has the map saying they're going to D.C.  So even though they changed their minds about D.C., the benefit of changing them back means Morgan can find them again.

[Nashville]

Maggie's crocodile tears really pissed me off.  She didn't seem to give a shit about her sister until her sister died.

 

I don't think it was indifference. Beth's fate was kind of a Schroedinger's Cat for Maggie; with no other information to go on, Maggie could successfully keep in her head the idea Beth was OK somewhere as long as she (Maggie) didn't overthink or overtalk the situation.

I don't think killing Beth was any accident.  I don't think Rick was right at all about that.  I think Dawn was a person who felt she could intimidate and control people through violence.  The problem, is that after she killed Beth, Rick didn't back down so she played the sorry/pity card.  Dawn didn't get the reaction from Rick's group that she expected, and paid for it with her life.

Dawn was a bureaucratic idiot. The deal was DONE. Rick&Co were WALKING AWAY. Everybody was OK WITH IT - that is, until Dawn hears whispers behind her and decides to stage an empty, meaningless power play to show off to her people what a BIG DEAL she is. Rick's reaction wasn't appropriate for the situation, however; instead of walking back at Dawn talking crap, CDB should've immediately hunkered down and leveled off weapons. Rifles vs. handguns, at that range, in that hallway? They could've cleared out the Atlanta OD in a heartbeat, and everybody - even Dawn - would've realized it immediately. With the extra added bonus Dawn was first and foremost in the line of fire:

Dawn: "You can't kill all of us." (Lie)

Rick: "Well, we'll sure as hell kill YOU." (Truth)

  

Regarding Tyreese and his morality making key mistakes I think most of them have made key mistakes but I don't think I've seen other critized to the same level Tyreese has been. When we look at what happen and not the what ifs, Tyreese's key mistake in not killing Martin didn't cost anyone their life but the Termites.

 

That, and certain of Bob's athlete's foot spores....

 

I realize that the cast could have benefited from some thinning - they still have 13, I think, in CampDinnnerlessBell - but even with his flaws, I would have kept Tyrese and would have opted for Abraham falling into a sinkhole or Eugene being eaten by unfair wolves.

 

Quite possibly the best thing I will read today. When I saw the "WOLVES NO FAIR" spray-painted about, I couldn't help but think "Go Local Sports Collective!".

 

Maybe it's gallows humor, but I laughed a little at that and at Tyreese's foot caught in the barbed wire. I don't know. Overall I do think it was an effective, powerful sequence...just a little too heavily piled on.

I cracked up over the barbed wire as well. Mika flashback, anyone? :)

  

I was actually with Michonne last night, when she was trying to convince Rick to stay in the subdivision. I liked her mentality of finding ways they could make it work, instead of finding every reason it can't. Trees are blocking their vision? Start cutting them down.

Yeah - then you'll be able to see clearly the 15,000,000,000 walkers drawn your way by the sound of chainsaws and falling trees.... :)

I didn't fault Michonne this lapse, but she was clearly grasping at straws; she had her heart so set on a dream of Noah's subdivision being a Safe Place, that it took her a minute to let go of the idea when reality intruded on the dream.

[JackONeill]

I know we've talked about the bifurcated bodies, but did it seem that the wall surrounding the neighborhood had been "assaulted."  It seemed as though Michonne was giving it some extra meaningful glances when she was on the outside with Rick.  (Or did they say something about it?  The sound of my TV sucks.  I miss half of the dialogue.)

[MrsRafaelBarba]

If I had to choose I would pick the visons Ty saw in death over the snarling teeth that Shane was privy to....

 

        That was Shane returning as a Walker. 

 

         Once it went black for Ty, the group made sure there was no return engagement.

 

         Otherwise he would've reanimated and saw the snarling teeth as well.

[BrokenRemote]

I know we've talked about the bifurcated bodies, but did it seem that the wall surrounding the neighborhood had been "assaulted."  It seemed as though Michonne was giving it some extra meaningful glances when she was on the outside with Rick.  (Or did they say something about it?  The sound of my TV sucks.  I miss half of the dialogue.)

 

 

Yes, and it seemed to have been assaulted from the outside.  I believe they confirmed that on Talking Dead.  Nicotero also confirmed this was done by an outside group, and that the dismembered bodies we saw would be explained.

Edited February 9, 2015 by BrokenRemote

[JackONeill]

See, that's what happens by missing the Talking Dead.  But, in some ways, it's sad that there has to be a show to explain THE SHOW.

Edited February 9, 2015 by JackONeill

[diebartdie]

I can't do a screencap but I just watched and rewound and watched several times and it says "WOLVES NOT FAR", the reason it could be mistaken for saying "fair" is that the "FAR" is spray painted on a part of a brick wall where the top bricks poke out more causing a shadow. Eventually someone will post a screenie.

Edited February 9, 2015 by diebartdie

[BrokenRemote]

But "WOLVES NOT FAIR" is much funnier!

Edited February 9, 2015 by BrokenRemote

[Enigma X]

For those who found Tyreese useless this is my unpopular opinion about him and why I liked him: A character/person like him is needed for after (if there is an after) the ZA is over to remind us how it is to be a compassionate human being. That may sound too soft for most of you, but I found that very endearing about Tyreese.

 

Also, I remember when Karen died that many people berated Tyreese for being the angry black man. It seems like he got the same flack for being the plush Teddy bear. (Can't win.)

[Timetoread]

La la la la la!  *Doing the Snoopy dance of joy*  Season 5 has been really good to me in that midseason they've dropped the dead weight that was keeping me frustrated. Random thoughts, since I can't keep up with this fast moving board.

 

Scott Gimple's arty-fartsy style is my taste so I did enjoy the artisticness of it.  It was very sad but not maudlin.  I did not cry and not because of my feelings for Tyrese, because I inexplicably bawled over Lori's death and I HATED Lori.  I seem to be emotionally in step with the other main characters in the realization that this world is experiencing apocalypse.  People die.  Period.  It doesn't have "meaning" or nobility or karma, it's just a day in day out watching the dominoes fall.  Glenn is seeing this.  Michonne is crumbling into this truth.  If I cry at all, it is for this fact.  What do you live for when there is nothing to live for?

 

I am happy to see the humanizing of Michonne.  I was growing weary of her "badass" label.  I could be wrong here but I get this sense that ALL of the badasses are reaching their breaking point - Michonne, Glenn, Abe, Daryl, Maggie, and Sasha.  They have all had enough.  That said, I am definitely connecting with Michonne's damage to her cool.  Particularly as a woman.  I am not even a mother but even I have a STRONG need to nest when there are children involved.  Every time they show Carl and Judith, I have an imaginary conversation with Rick as his nagging wife imploring, nay ORDERING, him to find a place and secure it so that these kids can have some stability. Everytime i see Judith's face I think "This can't be how this baby grows up.  It just can't."  So I get Michonne wholeheartedly.

 

As for Tyrese.  Yeah, I'm glad he's dead although I feel they perhaps wasted a good actor.  I liked the ghosts in his head because they said alot of what I said, so at least the SHOW was self-aware even if the character wasn't.  See the thing with Tyrese that I disagree with all the people who feel that he was an embodiment of "morality" is that I never felt that he was.  For starters, who in our group is IMMORAL?  I always felt that Tyreese used morality as a beard for what was simply fear.  I didn't see anything particularly moral about not telling Rick that the man who nearly snapped his baby's neck was still alive and could be a future threat.  Even in this episode, the MORAL thing would have been to keep Noah outside of his own home until he both neutralized any family members who were living zombies and covered and shielded him from the sights of decomposing family members who died horriblly.  Noah was left to his own devices.  The radio broadcast sounded to me like the Rwandan Genocide in which humanity turned on itself in unimaginable horror and the world stood by and did nothing.  I thought it an astute parallel, Tyrese sees the horror but he does nothing about it.  He was an immobile and helpless witness.  The truth about Tyrese, IMO, is that he wasn't too moral for this world, he just wasn't strong enough to survive it.

[diebartdie]

Love your post, pulled this because I agree so strongly!!!

See the thing with Tyrese that I disagree with all the people who feel that he was an embodiment of "morality" is that I never felt that he was.  For starters, who in our group is IMMORAL?  I always felt that Tyreese used morality as a beard for what was simply fear.  I didn't see anything particularly moral about not telling Rick that the man who nearly snapped his baby's neck was still alive and could be a future threat.

[LadyArcadia]

Why are they still going to DC?  In Season 2, the jackasses that attacked Herschel, Rick and Glenn in the bar said the roads to DC were completely blocked. Rick or Glenn should remember that.

 

I was shocked Ty died, but... meh.  Kill off one of the core (Rick, Carl, Daryl, Carol, Glenn, Michonne) and I'm done with this show. Everyone else is expendable. Note, I did not include Maggie. Although I love her, I think she can go.  I want Season 1 Glenn back.

 

I missed the sign and the symbol on the walkers' heads. I'll have to rewatch for that. I also missed a lot of the dialog because as soon as Brillip showed up I started screaming, "Noooo! We got rid of you! Get off my TV!" and couldn't hear a thing. 

[BrokenRemote]

La la la la la!  *Doing the Snoopy dance of joy*  Season 5 has been really good to me in that midseason they've dropped the dead weight that was keeping me frustrated. Random thoughts, since I can't keep up with this fast moving board.

 

Scott Gimple's arty-fartsy style is my taste so I did enjoy the artisticness of it.  It was very sad but not maudlin.  I did not cry and not because of my feelings for Tyrese, because I inexplicably bawled over Lori's death and I HATED Lori.  I seem to be emotionally in step with the other main characters in the realization that this world is experiencing apocalypse.  People die.  Period.  It doesn't have "meaning" or nobility or karma, it's just a day in day out watching the dominoes fall.  Glenn is seeing this.  Michonne is crumbling into this truth.  If I cry at all, it is for this fact.  What do you live for when there is nothing to live for?

 

I am happy to see the humanizing of Michonne.  I was growing weary of her "badass" label.  I could be wrong here but I get this sense that ALL of the badasses are reaching their breaking point - Michonne, Glenn, Abe, Daryl, Maggie, and Sasha.  They have all had enough.  That said, I am definitely connecting with Michonne's damage to her cool.  Particularly as a woman.  I am not even a mother but even I have a STRONG need to nest when there are children involved.  Every time they show Carl and Judith, I have an imaginary conversation with Rick as his nagging wife imploring, nay ORDERING, him to find a place and secure it so that these kids can have some stability. Everytime i see Judith's face I think "This can't be how this baby grows up.  It just can't."  So I get Michonne wholeheartedly.

 

As for Tyrese.  Yeah, I'm glad he's dead although I feel they perhaps wasted a good actor.  I liked the ghosts in his head because they said alot of what I said, so at least the SHOW was self-aware even if the character wasn't.  See the thing with Tyrese that I disagree with all the people who feel that he was an embodiment of "morality" is that I never felt that he was.  For starters, who in our group is IMMORAL?  I always felt that Tyreese used morality as a beard for what was simply fear.  I didn't see anything particularly moral about not telling Rick that the man who nearly snapped his baby's neck was still alive and could be a future threat.  Even in this episode, the MORAL thing would have been to keep Noah outside of his own home until he both neutralized any family members who were living zombies and covered and shielded him from the sights of decomposing family members who died horriblly.  Noah was left to his own devices.  The radio broadcast sounded to me like the Rwandan Genocide in which humanity turned on itself in unimaginable horror and the world stood by and did nothing.  I thought it an astute parallel, Tyrese sees the horror but he does nothing about it.  He was an immobile and helpless witness.  The truth about Tyrese, IMO, is that he wasn't too moral for this world, he just wasn't strong enough to survive it.

I think when people talk about morality, what they're referring to is the old morality, the morality we live with today.  In today's society, killing someone because they're bad is generally frowned on, whereas in TWD universe, it's often consiered necessary. Characters like Dale, Herschel and Tyrese are often the voice reminding the rest of what humanity used to be, and the voice to caution against becoming so hardened by the new realities of the world that you lose that sense that other lives have value.  Now, that can be argued a thousand different ways for a million different scenarios, but I do believe that's what people mean by "moral center".  

 

I, for one, do hope if something like this ever happens (not necessarily zombies, but the breakdown of society and the world) that most people do retain that moral sense that other lives have value, and only take other lives with consideration of the other person's humanity and whether it's necessary.  However, on a TV show it's more fun to play 'what if' and to not be constrained by those things, which is why I think people hate these 'moral center' type characters.  Is it more fun to watch Rick kill Bob2 and then coldly say 'shut up', or listen to the group debate whether they should take the hospital with minimal loss of life?  

[Haleth]

I'm still laughing about the suggestion someone way earlier posted that the CDB gang will get to DC and find countless walker bureaucrats wandering around till their terms of office are up.

Can walkie talkies really work over a range of 500 miles?

Edited February 9, 2015 by Haleth

[Misty79]

 

I did like the car scene in the end, when he died. And now that I think about it, it was kind of telling of how the show is developing towards a much harsher world, I guess. The ones in the car were all the "weak" ones or the more upbeat ones. There's no more place in the world for people like them.

 

I'd agree with you except that I feel like it's the only premise they've had for a season and a half now, and I'm just plain tired of the one-notedness of it. The weak (of body or mind) are not for this world, only those capable of turning off their emotions and being a heartless a-hole will survive. Gotcha. Gotcha the first time actually, I didn't need the emotionally manipulative exposition of this episode to ram it home for the hundredth time.

 

Having said that I did appreciate the non-linearity of this episode and the cinematography was superb at times. The gore was a little too gratuitous for my taste but they are pandering to certain elements in the audience there. I liked the idea of death as a sparing for someone like Tyrese, and the bookending of the reverend's speech on eternity and the unknown.

 

But this show really loves to kill off black people and women too much (unless they are a villain). That needs to change. 

Edited February 9, 2015 by Misty79

[HalcyonDays]

I missed the "W" carved in the foreheads too - someone/some group leaving a little message or something else? A way to mark the bodies to ID them as future zombies, perhaps?

 

At the end, when the truck smashed into the other bigger truck and all of those flailing torso's with attached heads come tumbling out...damn show...that was creepy. Nicely done.And SOOOO Creepy. Like someone else said way up earlier - Rick and co are going to be coming into contact with those guys - who will be the 'Wolves', or the ones who carved the "W" into the foreheads.

 

The de-legging/de-hipping makes sense if you don't want the zombie's running after you (take off the legs) but still, it would've been easier to cut off the heads, leaving a pickup bed full of chomping skulls (shudder). Easier to move and transport. Or just - you know - figure out that destroying the brain stops the zombie.

[BrokenRemote]

I'd agree with you except that I feel like it's the only premise they've had for a season and a half now, and I'm just plain tired of the one-notedness of it. The weak (of body or mind) are not for this world, only those capable of turning off their emotions and being a heartless a-hole will survive. Gotcha. Gotcha the first time actually, I didn't need the emotionally manipulative exposition of this episode to ram it home for the hundredth time.

 

Having said that I did appreciate the non-linearity of this episode and the cinematography was superb at times. The gore was a little too gratuitous for my taste but they are pandering to certain elements in the audience there. I liked the idea of death as a sparing for someone like Tyrese, and the bookending of the reverend's speech on eternity and the unknown.

 

But this show really loves to kill off black people and women too much (unless they are a villain). That needs to change. 

Yes!  And now Father Gabriel is set up to tell the same story, again!  You put your finger on something that's been bugging me for a while but I hadn't been able to articulate.  I think part of the problem is that it's obvious to us, and has been for a long time, but the characters don't have that same insight.  Which is probably realistic, and it's probably realistic that this same realization would come to different people over and over in different ways.  It just doesn't make for riveting TV.

[Nashville]

Was it a "W", or "XX" on the foreheads?

[BrokenRemote]

I missed the "W" carved in the foreheads too - someone/some group leaving a little message or something else? A way to mark the bodies to ID them as future zombies, perhaps?

 

At the end, when the truck smashed into the other bigger truck and all of those flailing torso's with attached heads come tumbling out...damn show...that was creepy. Nicely done.And SOOOO Creepy. Like someone else said way up earlier - Rick and co are going to be coming into contact with those guys - who will be the 'Wolves', or the ones who carved the "W" into the foreheads.

 

The de-legging/de-hipping makes sense if you don't want the zombie's running after you (take off the legs) but still, it would've been easier to cut off the heads, leaving a pickup bed full of chomping skulls (shudder). Easier to move and transport. Or just - you know - figure out that destroying the brain stops the zombie.

Maybe there was a reason to keep them alive but not able to run, in a similar vein to Michonne keeping her boys alive but unable to bite or grab.  Some kind of research, or some kind of trap (a hundred zombie torsos in a room that could bite anyone thrown in there, but weren't in danger of escaping to attack their dismembering captors?  (Man, my mind has gotten creepy since watching this show!)  I can't believe any group that could do that much damage would have never figured out about the brain--it seems like it has to be for a reason.

[Timetoread]

I think when people talk about morality, what they're referring to is the old morality, the morality we live with today.  In today's society, killing someone because they're bad is generally frowned on, whereas in TWD universe, it's often consiered necessary. Characters like Dale, Herschel and Tyrese are often the voice reminding the rest of what humanity used to be, and the voice to caution against becoming so hardened by the new realities of the world that you lose that sense that other lives have value.  Now, that can be argued a thousand different ways for a million different scenarios, but I do believe that's what people mean by "moral center".  

 

I, for one, do hope if something like this ever happens (not necessarily zombies, but the breakdown of society and the world) that most people do retain that moral sense that other lives have value, and only take other lives with consideration of the other person's humanity and whether it's necessary.  However, on a TV show it's more fun to play 'what if' and to not be constrained by those things, which is why I think people hate these 'moral center' type characters.  Is it more fun to watch Rick kill Bob2 and then coldly say 'shut up', or listen to the group debate whether they should take the hospital with minimal loss of life?  

 

Yes, but my problem with the characters you mentioned is that they maintain their so called moral core by allowing others to do the dirty work for them.  They stay safe because others kill FOR them.  Honestly I think the most poignant struggle for morality has played out inside the character of Carl.  Dealing with the love triangle the destroyed his family.  He loved Shane, but had to kill him.  He loved his mother but she was a disappointment, then he lost her.  He loved his dad but he has also disappointed him.  He killed that kid because he doubted the efficacy of mercy but now, a couple years later, he is telling his dad "Everybody can't be bad."  Carl is the moral center of this show, ironically. 

 

In real life I know that throughout history people have endured unimaginable pain and suffering and some of the darkest acts have been committed, some bordering on satanic.  But still society - and the need for it - prevails.  Why?  In my opinion it is because by nature and instinct we are pack animals and need each other to survive and thrive and the infrastructure of that instinct is morality.  So yeah, morailty will when the day even if the fight is long and hard.

[diebartdie]

 

I think when people talk about morality, what they're referring to is the old morality, the morality we live with today.  In today's society, killing someone because they're bad is generally frowned on, whereas in TWD universe, it's often consiered necessary. Characters like Dale, Herschel and Tyrese are often the voice reminding the rest of what humanity used to be, and the voice to caution against becoming so hardened by the new realities of the world that you lose that sense that other lives have value.

Tyreese didn't even want to kill zombies though. How could you live in that world and not WANT to kill zombies even if you were otherwise unable to for some reason? He was just afraid and trying to hide his fear behind his "morality", his "heroism" for "saving" Judith (which yes he did at first and he did help Carol but when push came to shove, he did not finish Martin and he flat out "lied like a bitch" about it.)

Edited February 9, 2015 by diebartdie

[JackONeill]

Hey, you people who watch these episodes multiple times (you know who you are):  Was it ever definitively said that the radio voices Daryl/Tyrese/Bob/etc heard when driving to raid the vet school came from Terminus?  I know Terminus had a radio, but I don't remember that ever being explained.  If not, that's a bid "what-the-hell."  (Or was that something else that was explained on the Talking Dead.  Sheesssh.)

Edited February 9, 2015 by JackONeill

[HalcyonDays]

Maybe there was a reason to keep them alive but not able to run, in a similar vein to Michonne keeping her boys alive but unable to bite or grab.  Some kind of research, or some kind of trap (a hundred zombie torsos in a room that could bite anyone thrown in there, but weren't in danger of escaping to attack their dismembering captors?  (Man, my mind has gotten creepy since watching this show!)  I can't believe any group that could do that much damage would have never figured out about the brain--it seems like it has to be for a reason.

 

Maybe the bodies were destined to be used as weapons. Like in Medieval times, when plague infected corpses were lobbed over castles wall, hoping to infect the occupants? Maybe there was another community they were trying to attack and were going to lob those bodies inside a gated community??

 

And your bold - my mind also has gotten creepy from this show, because of the previous paragraph. The only thing I couldn't watch was the amputation - the rest was fine. :'(

 

The burning of the houses made no sense though - it's not like Bob's Construction Company is around to rebuild. Leave the buildings alone. You may need them one day.

[Grace284]

Poor Ty, cursed to an eternity with Beth and her guitar. Even the Governor deserved a better fate than that.

[JackONeill]

And Beth was driving that car at the end without even looking at the road.  They could have all wound up dead . . . oh!

Edited February 9, 2015 by JackONeill