S01.E04: False Imposition

[sarkygal]

 

Lucious is forever touching and checking out Cookie yet he proposes to BBK.

Did I miss a proposal to Anika somehow?

[aprilbabe]

Did I miss a proposal to Anika somehow?

It was in the previews for the next episode.

He and Anika seem pretty serious and have seemingly been together for awhile. Weird that he waits til he's dying to propose. I have to wonder if its for more reason than just love.

Edited January 29, 2015 by aprilbabe

[Soup333]

While I enjoy Cookie pwning Boo Boo, I do appreciate the deeper look we get at Annika. I can only imagine that being a debutante with a privileged background may have been somewhat of a sore point at times, what with the pre-occupation in the Hip Hop world for 'keeping it real.' And what is less real to an art form that takes it's pride from it's artists mostly being 'from the streets' that some bougie person like Annika who simply can't relate to them. While Lucious is now a rich man, he still has street cred and his kids gets a pass as well. An now here is Cookie, the ultimate representation of Hip-hop keeping-it-realdom in Annika's face.  I like that Annika feels threatened by Cookie on a business level, not on a romance level.

 

I agree. And I think that a lof of this insecurity went into her insistence on continuing to try and get Titan after the drive-by. She's trying to be as strong as he told her he needs her to be, but also to prove to him and Cookie (and perhaps herself) that she can be just as "down" as Cookie was for him back in the day. 

 

I doubt that wedding will ever happen. LOL. 

[Neurochick]

I think that Lucious still cares about Cookie, maybe still loves her, but she's chock full of dysfunction.  Maybe to him, Anika is more stable and also Anika makes Lucious look better business wise.  Cookie is a great businesswoman, but she could be too rough around the edges for some.

 

The irony about "keeping it real" in the hip hop world, is that most of them want to make money so they won't be in the hood and their children can be like or marry someone like Anika.  

Edited January 29, 2015 by Neurochick

[ridethemaverick]

From the recap:

"Because so many shows would have Tiana fly into a jealous rage like a typical soap opera caricature. But on Empire, women are allowed to keep their eyes on the prize that's actually worth winning. (Sorry, Hakeem, but it's not you.)"

Yesssss! That scene made me love Tiana. That girl is about her business, not Hakeem's sexual escapades.

I thought this was a great episode. The show just gets better and better for me.

[dirtypop90]

Yes, I now believe it's Andre who's poised to be the best part of the show, but only if he's given more focus.  Cookie really needs to detach herself from Jamal's hip for awhile because it's kind of tiresome already.

 

Yes! I enjoy the cookie and jamal dynamic, but to me, it's no longer that interesting to watch. It might be because I just don't find Jamal that interesting. He can sing and he's gay, but his father doesn't except the latter so he's angry. That's sort of all there is to him. He doesn't seem to be particularly hard-working or ambitious, and his singing is only average IMO, so I kind of hate I'm being told I need to root for him to take Empire.

 

I'm also just not a member of the "poor jamal" club. Lucious is a d*ck yea but he clearly still loves Jamal, thinks he's talented, and is still willing to provide for him. Cookie loves him and thinks he's the greatest. He has a loving boyfriend. His brothers know and accept him for who he is.

 

I think Cookie is doing this for Empire and her sons, not Lucious.  I think she knows who Lucious is and I think she knows how he's playing with the three sons will destroy Empire and the family.

 

BUT, the episode really, really, really makes me want to know exactly why Lucious divorced Cookie. Per Cookie, Lucious just stopped all contact with her without any explanation.

 

 

I think it's as simple as he got famous. Staying committed to a woman behind bars wouldn't have been good for his image.

 

Lucious is forever touching and checking out Cookie yet he proposes to BBK.

 

 

I really think that's just TH adding those little touches. I don't think the script says "play with cookie's dress" lol

Edited January 29, 2015 by dirtypop90

[gazebo]

I think I'll always love the scenes of Lucious and Cookie together.  In between their arguments, they flirt with each other and give each other the sexy eyes of longing.  I don't know if Lucious and Cookie will ever reconcile, but I think there will always be the Love there.  I mean, Lucious could've just tried to pay Cookie off completely, but instead, he lets her go into his offices and work for Empire.  I love the way how he calls her "Baby Mama!" in such a sexy, sweet way. 

 

Nice to see some backstory with Andre and Lucious.  So Andre could sing as a kid!  And Andre is still covering for Lucious even after all these years.  He really stepped up to the plate to tell the cop that he was with Lucious on the night Bunkey got killed.  I just wish Lucious could really see how good Andre is to him and to Empire instead of pushing Hakeem to take over Empire.

 

I'm glad Lucious finally admitted to Anika that he is sick.  He should've told her long ago.  I like the way how she took the razor away from him and help shave his face.  I believe she really does care for Lucious.  Time for Lucious to get an electric razor!

 

Jamal is definitely going to toughen up now that he's gotten out of the comfort zone.  I was kind of afraid that when he was walking through his new, rough neighborhood, he was going to get mugged or beat up!  I was fascinated by his thought processes as he seemed to be creating a new song as he was walking along.  I'm rooting for Jamal.  I really am.

[Syndicate]

By the way, Trai Byers (Andre)  CAN actually sing.  I found that being stated on Tumblr.  I don't think it's a coincidence that we saw Andre singing in the flashback.  I'd say that's going to play into Andre's life as an adult.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Syndicate

[jenrising]

I do love that they're rounding out the personalities and motivations of everyone. There's something to respect about every character (well... maybe not Hakeem yet). 

[dirtypop90]

By the way, Trai Byers (Andre)  CAN actually sing.  I found that being stated on Tumblr.  I don't think it's a coincidence that we saw Andre singing in the flashback.  I'd say that's going to play into Andre's life as an adult.

 

I'm pretty sure in one of the first commercials for empire, there's a glimpse of andre sitting at a piano with Jennifer hudson. I always wondered what the heck was going on with that, but now it makes sense

[Ohwell]

Cookie, much as I love her, needs to tone her shit down.  I'm getting kind of tired of the ghetto hood rat persona.  She's smart, so she should be smart enough to realize that in order to run an "Empire,"  she will be dealing with all sorts of people--music execs, lawyers, etc.--not just young rappers and wannabe Beyonces.  I cringed when she took over Anika's meeting, and I think some of the staff around the table cringed as well. 

 

Frankly, I think she and Anika could learn a lot from each other.  Anika could observe Cookie to acquire some street smarts, and Cookie could smooth out her presentation style by checking out how Anika deals with the more corporate types. 

[aprilbabe]

Cookie, much as I love her, needs to tone her shit down.  I'm getting kind of tired of the ghetto hood rat persona.  She's smart, so she should be smart enough to realize that in order to run an "Empire,"  she will be dealing with all sorts of people--music execs, lawyers, etc.--not just young rappers and wannabe Beyonces.  I cringed when she took over Anika's meeting, and I think some of the staff around the table cringed as well. 

 

Frankly, I think she and Anika could learn a lot from each other.  Anika could observe Cookie to acquire some street smarts, and Cookie could smooth out her presentation style by checking out how Anika deals with the more corporate types. 

I give Cookie a pass.  In Empire time shes been out what a couple weeks? Month at the most. She went from hood, to prison, and then trust into this huge corperation. She's still learning. Im sure as time goes by she will figure out how to better handle herself. I'm sure when the company first started Lucious was rough around the edges a little too, but he's has 17 years to learn and  perfect his business persona.

[Ohwell]

Yeah when Lucious first started he might have been rough around the edges, but he hadn't yet built an Empire.  This is a totally different arena that Cookie is playing in now.  She needs to recognize that.

[Timetoread]

I AM however curious as to why he went about it the way that he did. If had come to the jail, talked to her, and ended the relationship face to face, told her he wanted a divorce and why, I think Cookie would've understood and had her closure. I don't understand why he didn't do that. Was he just a coward??

 

I think that there is a good dose of cowardice but I also get this feeling that as he started to get big, he wanted to take the credit for that himself.  Cookie was a constant reminder that he, in fact did NOT do it on his own.  That being said, I want him to truly come to Jesus on the cruelty of what he did to this woman that he clearly loved/loves.  He needs to pay with more than money.

 

That flashback between Andre and Lucious was a nice detail. Andre is a tough one, and I think I've been sleeping on him. That at a young age he knew to hide the gun for his father because he understood what it would mean for Lucious to be caught with the weapon is an important note. He doesn't know now what his covering for his father could mean, but that he knows he needs to do it just in case makes me wonder why Lucious is so much more focused on Hakeem running Empire than Andre. 

 

I could be wrong (and I usually am) but I feel like the answer to why not Andre came in Judd Nelson's character.  Lucius is still feeling both the financial sting AND the sting, as mentioned above, of having to admit that he didn't build that all himself.  I think he very much feels that his company, built in his opinion by an artist, should go to an artist because such a person would keep the integrity of the creative side of the business and be a positive force to others like him who had nothing at all except talent.  He loves Andre, but to him - like Tianna saw it with Annika - Andre is a suit.

 

Speaking of... I really liked the fleshing out of the Tianna character.  She's smart and raised well and doesn't like the way Hakeem treats her OR his mother.  I liked that she had the business acumen to sniff out Cookie's potential from the stunt she pulled with Jamal.

 

I also like that BBK is being presented as a whole person and I began to respect her.  I like what she represents: a young, pretty woman of color who through brains and education worked her way up in a world that is not really her own.  I liked the balls it took for her to meet with those rappers and insist that they respect her.  I liked how even as she was still shivering from almost getting shot, she wanted to soldier on to make the deal.  In spite of the unfortunate lines that she was given about her knowledge that Lucius only wants her because she is young and pretty, I think it is clear that Lucius knows that she is much more than that.  A really interesting twist would be for her and Cookie to become ALLIES.  Cookie coming up doesn't mean that she has to come down.  Both women are smart and capable and can both learn from each other and complement each other as team mates.  Indeed I pity anybody who came up against their combined forces.

 

Ok, Ima say it - I'm tired of watching Jamal be lazy.  Him and that damn Michael.  It made me shake my head that two grown ass men were lolling around on the couch waiting for Momma to bring home a pizza.  Nope!  They're almost as bad as Hakeem.  Almost.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Timetoread

[chabelisaywow]

So I am showing my age and sorry for the Cosby reference but the only thing I could concentrate on in the scene between Hakeem and Lushus (lol) was his Gordon Gartrelle shirt.

 

 

 

"No 14 year old boy should have a $95 shirt unless he is on stage with his four brothers."

[tmelange]

 

I could be wrong (and I usually am) but I feel like the answer to why not Andre came in Judd Nelson's character.  Lucius is still feeling both the financial sting AND the sting, as mentioned above, of having to admit that he didn't build that all himself.  I think he very much feels that his company, built in his opinion by an artist, should go to an artist because such a person would keep the integrity of the creative side of the business and be a positive force to others like him who had nothing at all except talent.  He loves Andre, but to him - like Tianna saw it with Annika - Andre is a suit.

 

I thought this was very obvious. It seemed clear after the scene with Judd Nelson that the reason that Lucious doesn't consider Andre in the running for Empire is that he's not an artist. After his time in the game, he doesn't trust suits controlling creatives. If Andre does end up being talented, Lucious seems likely to disdain him for choosing to go to law school rather than pursue his creative talent. Like Andre was too scared to trust his talent and put himself out there in the game when what Lucious wanted was his own second coming through his kids (especially his first born).

 

I also don't think he hates Jamal or even wants to see him fail. He wants him to not be gay -- which is sort of a fine line. People who hate their kids for being gay disown them, cut them off etc. I think Lucious would like nothing more than for Jamal to just...stop being gay. LOL I think he can see full well how talented Jamal is. He's proud of him, but can't admit it because of his ingrained homophobia.

[Jade Foxx]

Cookie got him his dreams, paid for it with 17 years in jail and away from her kids.

 

Have we estimated how old Cookie is supposed to be? (Considering she had all three kinds before going to prison.)

[Milz]

Im not curious about why he divorced. I mean as opposed to what?   Staying married and waiting for her for 30 years. Don't really know anyone who would do that. Once she was sentenced for that long the relationship was over. I AM however curious as to why he went about it the way that he did. If had come to the jail, talked to her, and ended the relationship face to face, told her he wanted a divorce and why, I think Cookie would've understood and had her closure. I don't understand why he didn't do that. Was he just a coward??

 

That's what I mean by the exact reasons. I understand the time factor (The only real-life person I know who waited was Winnie Mandela----she remained married to Nelson Mandela during his 27-28 years in prison). But what are the other reasons?

[aprilbabe]

Have we estimated how old Cookie is supposed to be? (Considering she had all three kinds before going to prison.)

Im guessing the character is close to Taraji's age which is 44. I always assumed Lucious and Cookie got  together very young, teens,  and had their first child as teens as well. If you checkchecked out Fox's website they have a portion called the Lyons Den, and they have press articles about the characters, (not the actors) one is a focus/interview with "Rhonda" and "Andre" in which they talk about them being so sucessful before 30. So Andre is still in his twentys, if they had him in their teens they would be in mid-forties

[Guest]

I really think that's just TH adding those little touches. I don't think the script says "play with cookie's dress" lol

 

I think the "Lucius still loves Cookie" anvils have been dropping left and right, and are totally scripted.  

 

LOL at Michael Jackson in the alley.  It did seem contrived.  "Oh, one night in a dive apartment-- now I can really write songs about the hard life!"  

 

I too am curious why Lucius didn't see Cookie in prison and break up like a man.  I'm sure there'll be some reveal.  He was probably ashamed of letting her take the fall for him and loved her too much to see her suffer, or something.  

[marceline]

I liked the fact that we got to see that Lucious and Anika have something real. His telling her about his illness and her responding by helping him shave was lovely. The last few weeks have been all about showing us Cookie and Lucious' bond but we see that he has something strong with Anika too: a level of trust. Lucious shielding her during the drive by even as she kept protesting that she could do what needed to be done made me smile. I finally began to understand what drew them together.

[LydiaMoon1]

I really liked the fleshing out of the Tianna character.  She's smart and raised well and doesn't like the way Hakeem treats her OR his mother.

 

THIS.  Loved all of it.  While I don't advocate using people, I can't help but feel gratified that Tianna obviously recognizes that Hakeem is a tool and not someone to get her feelings wrapped up in.

 

I also like that BBK is being presented as a whole person and I began to respect her.  […].  I liked the balls it took for her to meet with those rappers and insist that they respect her.  I liked how even as she was still shivering from almost getting shot, she wanted to soldier on to make the deal.

 

THIS too. I enjoyed the fact that both BBK and Cookie are portrayed as driven and brilliant business women, and Lucious Lyon is the personification of the 'behind every great man...' adage.  I mean, really, where would he be without Cookie and BBK?  He has thrived in large part due to his personal and professional relationships with both women. Let's not forget that his first business deal after Cookie was imprisoned seems to have resulted in him losing the publishing rights to his music, and BBK has obviously contributed greatly to his current success. Instead of calling women bitches and hoes (as everyone on this show seem to do with disturbing frequency), he better be thankful that he's been blessed to know two such extraordinary women.

 

I also loved the scenes with Becky, but I was so scared for Becky and her girls at the after party.  So relieved that they weren't hurt.

Edited January 29, 2015 by LydiaMoon1

[JAYJAY1979]

I liked that this episode was less plot twists and more character developing scenes.  Even though Andre and Jamal weren't featured as much in this episode, we still got to see scenes that developed their characters.

 

I also liked we got a scene or two with Lucious with Anika showing their relationship.  The first three episodes downplayed the relationship, which I think undercuts the conflicts between Cookie and Anika which is both romantic and professional.

 

I would like to see the character development moments balanced with plot movement.  Why do modern day shows operate with the either or premise?  Balance is key to a good prime-time soap.  With that said, where was Andre's wife?  One little scene wouldn't have hurt :)

 

Lastly, I liked that we got to see more layers to Cookie, that she is more then an angry and vengeful ex wife released from jail.  Already the show has corrected a big mistake that Dynasty did with their lead heavy (alexis) by giving their heavy layers.

[Easyspreestep]

I like Cookie, but she needs to tone it down.  No you did not produce Luscious records, because as you have stated you were in prison when he made it big, you can't produce all his records from prison. Maybe you help produce the first album or contributed to it but no not all his records.  Also how did Cookie's money start the label if Lucious was signed to another label before he went off on his own..

 

 

Cookie, if you want Hakeem to welcome you in his life, try not being so hostile towards him all the time.  He knows you are actively fighting against him with the Jamal vs Hakeem fight and you are always mean to him.  The very first conversation you have with him ends with you beating him with a broom. At the dinner table you slap his hand when he does not want to hold yours.  You have been abusive, while showing favoritism.  It's the same thing Lucious is doing, only difference is Lucious has a reason to.   Hakeem is the child you abandoned for whatever the reason is/was you did that and you don't get walk back in a demand the spot you should have earned in the last 17 years, by being around for sick days and bad dreams.  

[tmelange]

I'm thinking that the reason Lucious just stopped interacting with Cookie in jail is that he simply couldn't break it off with her to her face. Unlike a couple who go through an acrimonious divorce where each party ends up hating the other by the end, Cookie never did anything but prop Lucious up. She's never done anything to him for him to have developed any hate for her. If I were in his shoes and the mother of my kids was sitting in jail for THIRTY years because of me, I'd punk out too. In NY, you can divorce someone who is in jail for that long without their consent, I seem to remember. He moved on with his life, but as Cookie said in that elevator scene the other week, Lucious has no reason to disrespect her or treat her badly.

[Syndicate]

There are still about eight or nine episodes left to this season, but I'm already wondering what season two will look like in terms of characters and story.  The main premise of this show, as it stands, can only go so far, so it'll be interesting to see how they mix things up beyond that.  

Edited January 29, 2015 by Syndicate

[40Love]

I think I'll always love the scenes of Lucious and Cookie together.  In between their arguments, they flirt with each other and give each other the sexy eyes of longing.  I don't know if Lucious and Cookie will ever reconcile, but I think there will always be the Love there.  I mean, Lucious could've just tried to pay Cookie off completely, but instead, he lets her go into his offices and work for Empire.  I love the way how he calls her "Baby Mama!" in such a sexy, sweet way.

 

I loved that scene too... especially the loud chuckle Cookie let out when Lucious called her "Baby Mama"... and she followed it up with something "You so silly". The scene almost seemed ad-libbed. Those two have crazy chemistry. It's those scenes that make me like Lucious. Can't wait to see Cookie's reaction when she finds out Lucious is dying. I think she'll lose it.

 

The very first conversation you have with him ends with you beating him with a broom. At the dinner table you slap his hand when he does not want to hold yours.  You have been abusive, while showing favoritism.  It's the same thing Lucious is doing, only difference is Lucious has a reason to.   Hakeem is the child you abandoned for whatever the reason is/was you did that and you don't get walk back in a demand the spot you should have earned in the last 17 years, by being around for sick days and bad dreams.

 

You make very good points... and I get what you're saying. Hakeem is a child and Cookie is the adult. But, I can't get pass the fact that within maybe 30 minutes of meeting his mother for the first time he called her a "Bitch". He's constantly disrespecting her and slapping down every olive branch she has offered. So I'm firmly on Team Cookie. I think they will have a sincere heartfelt moment eventually where he breaks down. But, in the meantime, I can not stand his character. 

 

Even though Jamal is all sulky right now... he's still my favorite son. He needs to get it to moving though... This whiny, angsty artist stuff is wearing thin. 

[aprilbabe]

I like Cookie, but she needs to tone it down.  No you did not produce Luscious records, because as you have stated you were in prison when he made it big, you can't produce all his records from prison. Maybe you help produce the first album or contributed to it but no not all his records.  Also how did Cookie's money start the label if Lucious was signed to another label before he went off on his own..

 

 

 

 

I thought she said he produced his BEST records not all. I was under the impression that she got sent to prison right when he was about to make it big. Meaning his debut album that put him on the map was done.

 

I'm still curious as to how they managed to hold onto $400k with out the feds finding it

[Former Nun]

Get Gaborey Sidibe a new wardrobe person!      I don't care what character she's supposed to portray, I don't care about her size--no one needs to look that awful from behind.   I'll live with the various fright wigs.

[politichick]

At first I was a little worried, too, when Jamal was out walking around in his new hood and feared he might get beat up. What a lovely surprise it was, then, to hear and see him inspired instead. That's some good story telling there.

 

Also loved Tianna and her "don't get it twisted" attitude with Hakeem and how she's not risking her career over his asshole-ishness. I hope someone else finds out how he's fucking someone old enough to be his mother and spills the beans because that is some seriously twisted stuff, given his issues with Cookie. Also, Camella, seriously? She's got issues, too.

[Rick Kitchen]

Cookie, much as I love her, needs to tone her shit down.  I'm getting kind of tired of the ghetto hood rat persona.  She's smart, so she should be smart enough to realize that in order to run an "Empire,"  she will be dealing with all sorts of people--music execs, lawyers, etc.--not just young rappers and wannabe Beyonces.  I cringed when she took over Anika's meeting, and I think some of the staff around the table cringed as well. 

 

 

But she did tone it down when she was with Titan's mother.  I loved that scene, it showed a side of Cookie that we haven't seen yet.

[izabella]

In spite of the unfortunate lines that she was given about her knowledge that Lucius only wants her because she is young and pretty, I think it is clear that Lucius knows that she is much more than that.  A really interesting twist would be for her and Cookie to become ALLIES.  Cookie coming up doesn't mean that she has to come down.  Both women are smart and capable and can both learn from each other and complement each other as team mates.  Indeed I pity anybody who came up against their combined forces.

 

I  would rather see that than see them fighting in every single episode.  But Lucious stands in the way of Cookie and Anika joining forces.  Cookie won't befriend the woman she sees as an interloper in her family.  Anika will not befriend a woman who thinks Lucious belongs to her.

Edited January 29, 2015 by izabella

[tmelange]

 

Lucious and Hakeem simply continued to be asses, lol.

 

I thought the episode fleshed out Lucious a bit more. The one thing that I like about Lucious is that he's not as intolerant of Cookie as he puts on in front of BBK. It's evident throughout the episode that he has a certain amount of respect and love for her, and I particularly appreciated when he pulled Hakeem up. That's the second time Lucious took a stand against someone disrespecting Cookie. He also doesn't yell at Cookie when she gets into it with BBK. If some ex-wife snatched at my accessories, my man better say something. LOL

 

I thought the way he tried to protect BBK from the violence said a lot about his relationship with her and what he wants her involved in. She can never really know him because he doesn't trust her with that side of his life. I also thought it was interesting that he wanted Titon, then said he didn't, then he changed his mind again. The interaction with Jamal seemed revealing of his inner personality, though I'm not sure if that was intentional or a side result of TH's acting. Both the situation with his publishing money and the death of his father via the NOI were interesting points. Finally, I have my eye on who really was running the illegal stuff back in the day from that comment about Cookie pushing him to steal a Xmas tree.

 

What I want to know is why Judd Nelson doesn't want the company to go public. Why is that such a big deal?

[Ms Blue Jay]

I do love that they're rounding out the personalities and motivations of everyone. There's something to respect about every character (well... maybe not Hakeem yet).

 

It's his relationship with Jamal :)

Edited January 29, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[Soup333]

I think it's pretty obvious that Lucious still loves Cookie from their interactions. Besides the flirtatious eyes and side comments, he lets her do whatever the hell she wants to do. He may protest a little, but eventually, she gets her way. Now whether that's borne out of guilt (that she went to prison for him and the kids) or genuine love, I don't know. 

 

As far as my least favorite child, Hakeem - I do love his relationship with Jamal. That is his saving grace for me. I wish they would show more of how Andre interacts with his brothers, more than just plotting against them with his wife. Incidentally, I'm confused about y'all's love for her. She seems manipulative and twisted to me. I think she cares about Andre, but I don't even know if all of that is real or just for show since he is heir apparent (or at least should be) to his father's empire.

[BigBlueMastiff]

Andre scares me, he has such dead eyes, and the perma-smirk. He reminds of Patrick Bateman (I think) from American Psycho. The way he looks at people it's like he's looking through them, creepy, but still I want to know more. Agreed with all about the positive female character development. Loved T's reaction to Hakeem and Naomi in the tub, and BBK's attempt to step up with Titan. I also thought Jamal was going to get shot in Bushwick, just waiting for someone to throw something or at least tell him to STFU.

[Guest]

How old is Hakeem supposed to be?  Someone here guessed 19 (or rather that Cookie went away when he was 2) and someone else called him a child.  Wasn't he drinking at the nightclub?  

[aprilbabe]

How old is Hakeem supposed to be? Someone here guessed 19 (or rather that Cookie went away when he was 2) and someone else called him a child. Wasn't he drinking at the nightclub?

Cookie went away for 17 years. Cookie or Lucious mentioned Hakeem was barely one. So I would say 18 or 19. Yea he was drinking but I doubt lucious gave him any boundaries. He was also smoking weed at Lucious' house and there was a bag of weed when cookie visited.

[Ohwell]

But she did tone it down when she was with Titan's mother.  I loved that scene, it showed a side of Cookie that we haven't seen yet.

Yes, but that was more of a mother-to-mother type conversation.  I'm talking about how Cookie acts in the office/boardroom and how she interacts with the suits.

[rozen]

I'm thinking that the reason Lucious just stopped interacting with Cookie in jail is that he simply couldn't break it off with her to her face. Unlike a couple who go through an acrimonious divorce where each party ends up hating the other by the end, Cookie never did anything but prop Lucious up. She's never done anything to him for him to have developed any hate for her. If I were in his shoes and the mother of my kids was sitting in jail for THIRTY years because of me, I'd punk out too. In NY, you can divorce someone who is in jail for that long without their consent, I seem to remember. He moved on with his life, but as Cookie said in that elevator scene the other week, Lucious has no reason to disrespect her or treat her badly.

 

Exactly, imo. Every time they are alone seems like a powder keg, and I think if Cookie propositioned him he would go for it in a hot second. There is no way that he would have had the balls to look her in the eyes and tell her it's over. Especially not when she was literally paying his penance in jail. 

 

I suspect Andre was only 'serviceable' as a musician, didn't have any true creativity or flow. And Lucious would have had the highest expectations for him, as the eldest, for continuing his legacy. That flashback, followed by his covering for his dad, made me so sad. And angry at Lucifer for being so callous towards him. He's covered as much for his dad, in his own way, as Cookie did. And he treats both poorly. 

 

I thought Tiana was only indulging Hakeem because she wanted the hype to boost her own career. I loved her staring him down at the sound check, like, "boy, you better not mess up my coins." She might be good for Hakeem just to improve his work ethic. It will be kind of hilarious to see how he acts when she inevitably dumps him for something better. 

 

I like how every time Jamal asserts his independence (or manhood, as Lucious would see it), his father smirks to himself. He will talk all the shit he wants in public, but inside that man is proud his son is growing up...despite him. I'm surprised that Cookie didn't smack Jamal when he refused her cash. In her mind, it is hers, even if it came out of Lucious's pocketbook.

 

Edit: I figured BBK's look was strategic. Dripping in jewels, a physical presentation of what the manager could have if only he signed with her. That, and she looked really hot. Which I'm sure helps.

Edited January 30, 2015 by rozen

[tmelange]

Andre scares me too. He has that LOOK. That creepy, stalkerish, "I'll kill you all then shoot myself" LOOK. I don't like the wife either.

[blixie]

 

I think it's pretty obvious that Lucious still loves Cookie from their interactions.

I think so too, I'm not sure what exactly lead him to decide to ice out Cookie and get a divorce, besides fame and money, but having her back in his life makes it impossible for him to forget what they had, and what he probably wants again, but I appreciate that TH plays it as knowing he's hurt her pretty bad, and I feel like knowing he's going to die, is something he wants to spare both his children AND Cookie. All his focus is on the company and for better or worse he believes in both these woman as business people which I really *really* like. Which is good because so much of Lucious is not to like, what with the murdering loyal friends, and putting your gay son in a garbage can!

[Syndicate]

Andre scares me too. He has that LOOK. That creepy, stalkerish, "I'll kill you all then shoot myself" LOOK. I don't like the wife either.

Which makes me wonder what's in store for him.  I don't know what this Lee Daniel's style is when it comes to drama.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Syndicate

[mtlchick]

I would have to try to watch it again as I didn't give it my full attenion but I didn't mind this episode.  There are too many dramas that need to throw in a lot of "A HA! See that!  Twisted huh?  here's another one!" especially these days. Sometimes a show needs an episode to just explore the characters in order to build to a season finale that was worth it.  This was about how Lucious still has respect for Cookie despite their problems and how Cookie found solace with another person about missing those moments with her kids. 

 

That said: 

 

 

Jamal walking the streets rattling chains and kicking trashcans gave me such Michael Jackson vibes that I half expected him to throw up his arms and yell OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

 

had me rolling my eyes.  That was TOO cheesy.  I was expecting a wind machine coming out of nowhere next. 

 

Aside of that, seeing the ratings climb each week show that people are responding to this.  I hope Fox and the creative team don't blow this.  

[Rae Spellman]

This week, Cookie called Michael "sweetheart" instead of some offensive nickname!

[Former Nun]

Andre scares me, he has such dead eyes, and the perma-smirk

 

 

Bi-polar and medications have been mentioned.  Maybe there are more mental problems coming.

[Syndicate]

I would have to try to watch it again as I didn't give it my full attenion but I didn't mind this episode.  There are too many dramas that need to throw in a lot of "A HA! See that!  Twisted huh?  here's another one!" especially these days. Sometimes a show needs an episode to just explore the characters in order to build to a season finale that was worth it.  This was about how Lucious still has respect for Cookie despite their problems and how Cookie found solace with another person about missing those moments with her kids. 

 

That said: 

 

 

had me rolling my eyes.  That was TOO cheesy.  I was expecting a wind machine coming out of nowhere next. 

 

Aside of that, seeing the ratings climb each week show that people are responding to this.  I hope Fox and the creative team don't blow this.  

"I would have to try to watch it again as I didn't give it my full attention."

 

 

This is exactly what I did, watched it a second time, because the first time I watched, my eyes just wandered around the room and I was surfing through the computer as well.  It's funny how a more attentive second look can make it seem slightly better.  What I payed attention to was the Lucious/Andre flashback and how it appears that there's a pattern of the son having to cover the father's ass.  Surely (HOPEFULLY!) this will have an impact on story moving forward.  I also made note of how Uncle Vernon looked at Andre after he said he was home with Lucious while Bunky's killing took place.  Clearly, Uncle Vernon didn't buy it.  Cookie, as usual, was loud but humorous once again with one-liners.  I continue to be astounded by the increased ratings.  FOX has something good going for themselves here.  It would be such folly if they started making dumb moves to screw things up, and I sure as hell hope that after all of the character exploration that we are sure to receive, they have one hell of an explosive season finale planned.  If there's one thing I hate about some tv shows, it's a lame ass season finale after having had an entire season to prepare for it.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Syndicate

[marceline]

 

FOX has something good going for themselves here.  It would be such folly if they started making dumb moves to screw things up...

 

Allow me to introduce you to Sleepy Hollow. It a master class in how to screw up a good thing.

[Guest]

What struck me as stupid about Andre just spontaneously inventing an alibi for his dad was any smart cop would've immediately separated them and drilled them on the details, wouldn't they?  And since they didn't even prearrange the lie or check the details, they would be easily seen as lying.  I guess you can't expect too much crime reality from a soap.

 

I hope this doesn't go ridiculous by season 2 like Revenge did.  

 

I call this Black Nashville.  

[Mozelle]

This is so random, but does Trai Byers (Andre) sound like Denzel to anyone else? I only recently started seeing Trai in things (he played James Forman in Selma), but as he speaks, I hear Denzel intonations.