Pet Peeves: Aka Things That Make You Go "Gah!"

[walnutqueen]

21 minutes ago, kieyra said:

My only dog in the (younger) millennial v gen x money fight (square in the middle of gen x here) is that I've spent some time on Reddit /advice and there are so many kids there who complain they can't afford to move out of their parents' place and their parents suck, are narcissistic, etc. (Stay with me here.) But if you suggest getting even an entry level job and some roommates, they act like you're crazy because they don't want roommates, and they don't believe they should have to work at "undesirable" jobs. 

When I was 18, the economy was still in the toilet, my parents did suck (Dad was in prison) and I was totally on my own. So I got a crap job and some roommates. I didn't even get to go to college. But the world failed to end. 

(At that time, we blamed the Boomers for ruining the economy. Wheel never stops turning.)

(I should mention that I work almost exclusively with older-model Milennials and they do give me hope for the future. The ones hitting early 30s right now, I mean.)

And the seasons they go round and round
And the painted ponies go up and down
We're captive on the carousel of time
We can't return we can only look behind
From where we came
And go round and round and round
In the circle game

[AgentRXS]

Quote

(I should mention that I work almost exclusively with older-model Milennials and they do give me hope for the future. The ones hitting early 30s right now, I mean.)

Heh. Anyone born between '80-'85 will tell you they would be peeved to be categorized as a "Millennial" (yes, I fall in the category). All our lives we were told we were Gen Y and then the tech boom happens just as we graduate high school, and now we are stuck with this inane nickname LOL.

Quote

Stay with me here.) But if you suggest getting even an entry level job and some roommates, they act like you're crazy because they don't want roommates, and they don't believe they should have to work at "undesirable" jobs. 

When I was 18, the economy was still in the toilet, my parents did suck (Dad was in prison) and I was totally on my own. So I got a crap job and some roommates. I didn't even get to go to college. But the world failed to end. 

(At that time, we blamed the Boomers for ruining the economy. Wheel never stops turning.)

I can't blame them on the "not wanting roommates" issue. I also started living on my own at 18 and had always been able to find affordable efficiencies (even if they were in shitty locations) up until the last few years. Now rents are so out of control in my market that I might be facing looking for a roommate to split a two bedroom apartment, if I'm ever on the hunt for a new apartment.

[Blergh]

I've never understood the appeal of that  teapot tempest known as Facebook so there's no chance of me 'going back' to it since I've never gone there in the first place!

[Sun-Bun]

On 7/15/2017 at 11:34 AM, walnutqueen said:

I totally get you.  I wouldn't have a house if I didn't get stupid lucky buying a shithole back in the 80s.  My retirement "pension" is a joke, and I'm not eligible for Social Security (thanks, misspent youth!).  And I've NEVER had as good a life as my lowly parents did - they both worked crap jobs ("secretary" and "law clerk"), yet managed to have a house, a "farm", vacations, 2 cars that weren't beaters, and a fairly decent middle class lifestyle.  No more of that, my friend - EVER.  The dwindling middle class is a reality, folks.  And that's another pet peeve - this was once the country of opportunity, but now it seems to be the country of Haves and Have-Nots.  And the Haves are WINNING, just as much as the Have-Nots are LOSING.

I'm glad I didn't have kids, because this brave new world?  I wouldn't wish on anyone.

Seriously, I feel the exact same way, no kids here either. So I admittedly want to stomp my Baby Boomer mom's head into the ground when she starts lecturing me about my finances. 

Like geez, sorry I had to go back to school and get myself 20k in debt just to get my current "real" job that barely pays me enough for any money left over after I pay my mortgage and my credit card debt. No my husband can't "just take care of me", we both have to work because life these days is fucking expensive. Now go back to your half a million dollar house that your mom bought you for 70k in 1980, enjoy that nice Social Security check I'm paying into monthly that will likely be all gone by the time I'm finally able to enjoy it myself, and shut your stupid mouth---you have no idea how goddamned hard it is for those of us born past 1970.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Sun-Bun

[bilgistic]

I was thinking more about this. I grew up in Winston-Salem, NC, home of Reynolds Tobacco. My uncle worked on the factory floor at Reynolds for his whole career. He also got paid something insane like $30/hour-plus (in the 1970s-1980s!) because Reynolds wanted to keep employees from organizing into unions. I don't make $30/hour now as a marketing specialist with 20 years' work experience and a college degree.

As far as I know, Reynolds employees also got stock and pensions. They worked there their entire lives because companies cared about their employees.

My grandfather was an over-the-road truck driver for Roadway, and was a Teamster. My grandmother worked for Hanes on the factory floor. My mother says my grandparents had $1M before my grandpa died. There's no telling what my grandmother has now after my grandpa's life insurance. She does live very frugally, but again, worked for a company that valued employees. However, eventually both Hanes and Reynolds were bought/diversified/etc. as production costs rose. Winston-Salem's economy took a big hit.

Things started changing in the 1980s. Companies quit caring about employees. My mother struggled to raise my sisters and me on a legal secretary's salary and took a second job in retail. Jobs that used to be done by two people were cut to one person, and it's been the same for Boomers and GenXers since then.

I graduated college in 1997, and because I was "smart", I wasn't shown by my HS counselors that I had any choice beyond going to college. No trade training options shown to me, for example. So I went to college and put myself through, working while amassing student loans. I am still paying off loans 20 years later.

I have had LONG periods of unemployment and then gotten hired again at a laughable wage. I'm still underpaid while new graduates are making almost what I make now, while being catered to with ping-pong tables and craft beer on tap in the workplace. Give me a goddamned break. I want four walls and a door, and some peace and quiet so I can do my two jobs while my 26-year-old coworker is shooting the shit with his peers, while ignoring what I've asked him to do.

Edited July 16, 2017 by bilgistic

[MargeGunderson]

My parents don't understand why I save for retirement, since I'll have a pension - except I don't have a pension plan. I explained to them that pensions aren't all that common anymore outside of certain industries (like government or teaching) and that even pension plans are subject to being cut and underfunded. They're convinced I'm wrong. They also can't understand why I have a small, older house and have an older car and don't take vacations to visit them a lot. I make good money - I really can't complain - but I live in an area with crazy housing costs and am still paying of my student loans (done next February!). Tack on saving for retirement and saving in case I get laid off (my industry can be volatile) and I don't have a lot of disposable income. 

I remember all too well the days of multiple jobs (including a memorable summer working two full time jobs) and multiple roommates in crappy apartments. It's only in the last five years that I've truly been out of living paycheck to paycheck. I have a lot of sympathy for the younger generation who are finding it tough to get started, and for that matter, the middle class folks hanging on by their fingertips and those people trying to get out of poverty. It seems like more of an uphill climb these days.

[rcc]

Companies don't care about employees anymore. There might be some but they are few and far between. We had regular yearly raises, lunches, paid insurance and other benefits.

Today, jobs are outsourced (a term we knew nothing about in those days) and raises are almost nonexistent. All the while corporate CEOs are rewarded with huge stock options and bonuses. Corporate greed is the norm today.

That is what it is in 2017. Some retirees have no idea. Some of us do.

[Zola]

I'm 24 (does that make me a Millennial? I have no idea), living in England. I left university last year with a student debt of around £37,000 (just under $50k)-  which is about the norm for graduates here. On my present salary it will take just over 20 years to pay off. I also have my own 2 bed house with a mortgage (my parents helped pay the hefty deposit), but again that will take 22 years to clear. 

I used to work for an employer in IT, which had a good salary, which was subject to tax and insurance, plus my student loan deduction. But I quit a few month ago and became a self-employed consultant - better money but constant work is never guaranteed. 

I have a state pension, which I know will be worth next to nothing when I retire in 40 years time (could be longer if future governments keep on upping the retirement age); I could go with a private pension: you look at the glossy brochures of all these happy-smiley middle aged people, enjoying life on the beach, or on a boat, or drinking tea in their huge garden, and the brochure is saying "This could be you!" But the reality is very different, and the projections are always way off - the more you put in doesn't necessarily mean you'll get a golden pot of money at the end of it. And in any case, you could pay into a pension for 40 years, and as soon as you're about to retire you could die of a heart attack!

so there's no way I can afford a private pension; it is hard enough just trying to maintain a decent living! Governments don't really care about your circumstances just so long as you're being taxed and taxed again year in year out - we are just a number and nothing more.

God help future generations - probably won't be able to afford university, or their own home, and certainly not a pension. 

[PRgal]

6 hours ago, Only Zola said:

I'm 24 (does that make me a Millennial? I have no idea), living in England. I left university last year with a student debt of around £37,000 (just under $50k)-  which is about the norm for graduates here. On my present salary it will take just over 20 years to pay off. I also have my own 2 bed house with a mortgage (my parents helped pay the hefty deposit), but again that will take 22 years to clear. 

I used to work for an employer in IT, which had a good salary, which was subject to tax and insurance, plus my student loan deduction. But I quit a few month ago and became a self-employed consultant - better money but constant work is never guaranteed. 

I have a state pension, which I know will be worth next to nothing when I retire in 40 years time (could be longer if future governments keep on upping the retirement age); I could go with a private pension: you look at the glossy brochures of all these happy-smiley middle aged people, enjoying life on the beach, or on a boat, or drinking tea in their huge garden, and the brochure is saying "This could be you!" But the reality is very different, and the projections are always way off - the more you put in doesn't necessarily mean you'll get a golden pot of money at the end of it. And in any case, you could pay into a pension for 40 years, and as soon as you're about to retire you could die of a heart attack!

so there's no way I can afford a private pension; it is hard enough just trying to maintain a decent living! Governments don't really care about your circumstances just so long as you're being taxed and taxed again year in year out - we are just a number and nothing more.

God help future generations - probably won't be able to afford university, or their own home, and certainly not a pension. 

The thing is, without taxes, one would be even WORSE off.  And if there ever is universal post-secondary education in your country (or mine), expect to pay even HIGHER taxes...

[Katy M]

Here's all I'm going to say on the topic. There are at least two sides to every issue and story.  And life is not all that black and white.  There are a lot of times no "right" and "wrong" answers that are right and wrong for everybody.

[StatisticalOutlier]

16 hours ago, MargeGunderson said:

My parents don't understand why I save for retirement, since I'll have a pension - except I don't have a pension plan. I explained to them that pensions aren't all that common anymore outside of certain industries (like government or teaching) and that even pension plans are subject to being cut and underfunded. They're convinced I'm wrong. They also can't understand why I have a small, older house and have an older car and don't take vacations to visit them a lot.

I'm trying to figure out what's driving their opinion.  Are they just spendthrifts?  Because I can't imagine anyone these days thinking saving for retirement shouldn't be a huge priority for everyone.  Even if you don't know the nuts and bolts that you identified, there's still just the general drift in the air of an uncertain future.  Maybe they just haven't kept up?

Or...maybe you're in line for a HUGE inheritance in a couple of years and they're sworn to secrecy and hate to see you struggle in the meantime. 

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

Or...maybe you're in line for a HUGE inheritance in a couple of years and they're sworn to secrecy and hate to see you struggle in the meantime.

OOOH, I like to delude myself into believing this scenario sometimes. Soon...

[theredhead77]

I despise the term "happy [day of the week]". It makes me so irrationally irritated and stabby and I refuse to acknowledge it.

[MrSmith]

On 7/13/2017 at 6:40 PM, auntlada said:

I hate it when a woman says, "I'm a full-time mom," when she means she's a stay-at-home mom or a mom who does not work at a job outside the home or does not have a paying job or however I can say it without offending those women. I don't care that they do what they do -- as long as they don't care that I do what I do, which is have a child and also a job outside the home that someone pays me to do. What I do care is the implication that mothers who do have jobs outside the home that they are paid to do are only part-time moms. Mothers who say the full-time mom thing probably don't mean to imply that, but the words do seem to give off that sentiment.

I mean, yeah, I work at a job I'm paid for. I'm not with my son all day long. I sent him to daycare (and now to school). But I don't quit being a mom during those eight hours that I'm at the office. And for that matter, dads don't stop being dads when they are at their jobs they get paid to do. And I don't really believe that those moms are taking care of their children 24 hours a day seven days a week until they go off to college. Those moms do other things, too, and spend time away from their kids.

I recognize that this is a piddly thing, but it's what irritated me today (besides the people at work who send stuff to be created, proofed and printed for the annual event three weeks before the annual event -- did I mention this event happens every year?).

They probably phrase it that way because people have this misconception that if you don't work outside the house, then you're laying around on the couch all day eating bon-bons and watching Oprah. So, it's not to offend women who work outside the house and have children; it's just to head-off the criticism and condescension that women who are housewives are all but guaranteed to face from everyone they meet. How do I know this? Because my wife is a housewife and has gotten all kinds of snide, sniping, arrogant, and condescending remarks from assholes (men and women) who think they know more than they do. We don't have children and my wife still struggles to get through one hour of recorded television in a day because of how busy she is. You shouldn't take any offense at the phrasing because it's not aimed at you - unless you're one of those that would criticize (and by your own admission you are NOT).

[MrSmith]

On 7/13/2017 at 7:55 PM, ennui said:

Can phone numbers be phished like email accounts? For example, I get spam emails from my own address.

Caller id display has been being spoofed probably since the day after caller id was invented. I had to deal with that a lot when I worked for the phone company; customers would call and complain about it and that was 20 years ago (when I first started the job). It's a real pain in the ass now, but that's what you get when the designers of a computer system don't stop to think about how it can be exploited and abused.

[MrSmith]

On 7/13/2017 at 8:34 PM, bilgistic said:

There are problems with this model, I have learned. "Justin" used to have the ghost number and gave it up at some point. Back into the ether it went until Republic called it back (pun) to assign it to my new account. Justin was a busy dude and signed up for a lot of garbage. He got a LOT of spam calls and texts, so now, I get them. On any given day, I get at least two spam calls. I don't get that many REAL calls in a week. They've died down from the tsunami I used to get. I have an app that manages them. Sometimes the app stops the spam calls from even coming through.

This has been a problem ever since they started re-assigning telephone numbers to new customers. Basically, unless you're getting a number in a brand new area code, then you know your telephone number has been previously used by someone else. If the people who contact them don't update their information, then you'll keep getting calls for those people. Bill collectors are the worst because they only update their local copy of the debtor's file. This means that when they sell the account to another bill collector, their personal notes about "This number no longer belongs to Mr. X" are not provided to the new account owner. So, the new account owner starts calling your number all over again and you have to keep telling them you've never heard of Mr. X. This happened to me with my mobile number (most recently) and with other numbers I have had. With my mobile number, they keep looking for an African woman with a name I cannot pronounce (and neither can they).

On 7/13/2017 at 8:42 PM, Katy M said:

I also hate when people just call people stupid or dumb, or have no reading comprehension, etc.  Just correct people politely.   And, then they act like typos are worthy of the death penalty or something. 

I will tell people their reading comprehension failed them. I do this mostly when they make assumptions about what I mean or what I'm saying. I'm like, "Where did I ever say that? Just deal with the text that's on the page, please. If you have questions about what I mean, ask and I'll tell you the truth because I don't care what you think of me."

On 7/14/2017 at 4:34 AM, Quof said:

Even more annoying when they have it  on speaker, like they are a Kardashian. 

When they do this, I'll respond, too. I'll get as involved in the conversation as possible. When they glare at me or say something rude, I just respond that if they didn't want to share their conversation, then they shouldn't put it on speaker. Since it's on speaker, I figure they want me to get involved in their conversation! They tend to fish their headset out of their purse or switch to holding the phone to their ear.

[MrSmith]

On 7/14/2017 at 11:15 AM, kieyra said:

Yeah. I've left a lot of toxic online communities, but it was typically obvious no one would care if I left. Hence, no need to announce.

I do occasionally post that I'm done with a television show, and may state the reason, but I think that kind of feedback is legit (and may eventually make its way back to showrunners), and it's not like I hang around and bag on the show after I stop watching it. (Well, except Sleepy Hollow, but they had it coming.)

Typically something like "tagging out, too dark for me". 

LOL! So true! I hung out and bagged on the show after stopping watching, too.

[MrSmith]

On 7/15/2017 at 5:01 AM, Only Zola said:

Another peeve is our inexorable move towards a cashless society - in that nearly every financial transaction we perform is done electronically using a card; and that eventually the idea of actually paying for something in hard cash will be a thing of the past!

There are of course many advantages/conveniences of paying for things electronically, but if real cash does finally disappear and outlets only accept cards or phone apps, it will mean every transaction will be recorded, thus someone somewhere will know exactly what you bought, how much you paid, what bank/card you use, who you are, where you live etc. 

Moreover, the banks who issue these cards will no doubt raise their transaction fees now that they will have a complete monopoly on the so-called "cashless society". Already some banks charge 2% on all credit card transactions, so imagine what might happen should hard cash disappear completely!!

You might think this is the stuff of pure fantasy, and maybe it is. But let's face it, how often do you pay for something using hard cash compared to say 10 years ago?

We run our lives on cash. The only things that get paid electronically are the ones I can pay on the Internet. Water bill? Cash. Groceries? Cash. Clothing? Cash. We don't use our cards to pay for anything that can be paid for in cash. This is because of the proliferation of skimmers - those things criminals can put on gas pumps to steal your card number and etc. There have been instances of servers in restaurants keeping a skimmer in their pocket and using it on all the cards their customers give them to pay for their meals. And how about places like Verizon (who left their customers' account details wide open on Amazon's servers), Home Depot, and other companies who get hacked and all your information is stolen? Yeah, using cash can be a pain in the ass when you're going to buy a new refrigerator or riding lawn mower, but at least I know my data didn't get hacked and that I didn't have to worry about my credit. Too much shady shit can happen when you don't use cash, and I just don't trust people that much. In fact, I trust people so little that I won't even leave a cash tip on the table at a restaurant; I always hand it directly to the server.

[MrSmith]

On 7/15/2017 at 11:34 AM, walnutqueen said:

I totally get you.  I wouldn't have a house if I didn't get stupid lucky buying a shithole back in the 80s.  My retirement "pension" is a joke, and I'm not eligible for Social Security (thanks, misspent youth!).  And I've NEVER had as good a life as my lowly parents did - they both worked crap jobs ("secretary" and "law clerk"), yet managed to have a house, a "farm", vacations, 2 cars that weren't beaters, and a fairly decent middle class lifestyle.  No more of that, my friend - EVER.  The dwindling middle class is a reality, folks.  And that's another pet peeve - this was once the country of opportunity, but now it seems to be the country of Haves and Have-Nots.  And the Haves are WINNING, just as much as the Have-Nots are LOSING.

I'm glad I didn't have kids, because this brave new world?  I wouldn't wish on anyone.

We're returning to the time of the robber barons. That's all. It's a pendulum like most other things. Most of the people I mention this to either have no understanding what I'm talking about or they simply do not believe me. Eventually people will realize that our economy only runs and grows when people have disposable cash. The crazy-rich people would actually be richer if they would pay their employees a decent wage because those employees would be spending money on dining out, going on vacations, buying new cars, buying toys (adult or child oriented), and so on. I don't expect to be alive to see the pendulum swing back the other direction, though.

[Katy M]

34 minutes ago, MrSmith said:

I will tell people their reading comprehension failed them. I do this mostly when they make assumptions about what I mean or what I'm saying. I'm like, "Where did I ever say that? Just deal with the text that's on the page, please. If you have questions about what I mean, ask and I'll tell you the truth because I don't care what you think of me."

I also don't like it when people put words in your mouth or misquote you or whatever, although I usually just say "that's not what I said," Or "pleas show me where I said that.".  But, that wasn't what I was talking about.  More like if you're commenting on a news story and someone either gets something wrong, or perhaps just has an opinion that differs with another commenter, and they are rewarded with phrases such as "reading comprehension isn't your strongsuit, is it?" 

[MrSmith]

@Katy M Now I understand! And yes, you're right about that. Using it as an insult when it's not necessary or even applicable is ridiculous.

[janestclair]

1 hour ago, MrSmith said:

When they do this, I'll respond, too. I'll get as involved in the conversation as possible. When they glare at me or say something rude, I just respond that if they didn't want to share their conversation, then they shouldn't put it on speaker. Since it's on speaker, I figure they want me to get involved in their conversation! They tend to fish their headset out of their purse or switch to holding the phone to their ear.

I love this. I am absolutely going to steal this and do it from now on.  

43 minutes ago, MrSmith said:

 Too much shady shit can happen when you don't use cash, and I just don't trust people that much. In fact, I trust people so little that I won't even leave a cash tip on the table at a restaurant; I always hand it directly to the server.

I never pay in a restaurant with credit for exactly that reason. Same thing at the gas pump.  My credit card never leaves my hand.  In fact, the only time I use credit is if I'm buying something online or I'm buying something expensive and don't have that amount of cash on hand.  

[Zola]

59 minutes ago, MrSmith said:

We run our lives on cash. The only things that get paid electronically are the ones I can pay on the Internet. Water bill? Cash. Groceries? Cash. Clothing? Cash. We don't use our cards to pay for anything that can be paid for in cash. This is because of the proliferation of skimmers - those things criminals can put on gas pumps to steal your card number and etc. There have been instances of servers in restaurants keeping a skimmer in their pocket and using it on all the cards their customers give them to pay for their meals. And how about places like Verizon (who left their customers' account details wide open on Amazon's servers), Home Depot, and other companies who get hacked and all your information is stolen? Yeah, using cash can be a pain in the ass when you're going to buy a new refrigerator or riding lawn mower, but at least I know my data didn't get hacked and that I didn't have to worry about my credit. Too much shady shit can happen when you don't use cash, and I just don't trust people that much. In fact, I trust people so little that I won't even leave a cash tip on the table at a restaurant; I always hand it directly to the server.

I would agree with you, but the fact is we are moving towards electronic transactions, especially the younger generation (myself included), brought up with smart phones and tablets, credit/debit and contactless cards and apps. All very convenient of course, but as I said in my op and you pointed out also, every transaction leaves a trail. Moreover, if a bank gets hacked or goes offline for a number of hours - which has happened many times - you won't be able to use your cards or ATMs. And that's where cash has the advantage  - but even cash isn't infallible to fraud/counterfeiting.

I just think that in 10 or 20 years time, cheques will be dead, and I suspect various cash denominations will be retired gradually over time to the point where the banks will get their way and cash will be no more. 

 

We shall see

Edited July 17, 2017 by Only Zola
Typo

[MrSmith]

1 minute ago, janestclair said:

I love this. I am absolutely going to steal this and do it from now on.  

I never pay in a restaurant with credit for exactly that reason. Same thing at the gas pump.  My credit card never leaves my hand.  In fact, the only time I use credit is if I'm buying something online or I'm buying something expensive and don't have that amount of cash on hand.  

You're absolutely welcome to steal that idea and do it. It can really add a little more fun to your day and banish a peeve for at least a little while.

I also don't like to pay at the pump because the bank puts a hold on ridiculous amounts of money and keeps it locked down for a few days. I understand why they do it; my problem is that it is a "cost" for which I am unable to plan.

@Only Zola You are right that we are probably going to end up a cashless society. My hope (and expectation) is that this will happen after I am dead. I am waiting for the penny to be retired. Of course, if I were not using cash, then I would hate pennies a lot less.

[Popples]

3 hours ago, MrSmith said:

When they do this, I'll respond, too. I'll get as involved in the conversation as possible. When they glare at me or say something rude, I just respond that if they didn't want to share their conversation, then they shouldn't put it on speaker. Since it's on speaker, I figure they want me to get involved in their conversation! They tend to fish their headset out of their purse or switch to holding the phone to their ear.

While these people aren't on speakerphone, I'm reminded of this video:

[BookWoman56]

Maybe it's because I work for a very large bank, but I have no major issues with going to a cashless and checkless society. Checks are a PITA to deal with in terms of processing and so forth. Given how wretched some people's handwriting is, I'm amazed that there is not a ton of processing errors. In the past 3 years, I've written maybe 3 checks. I primarily use my debit card for purchases, and pay my bills online using either my debit card or an ACH from my checking account. I have a couple of credit cards that I use for token purchases once a month or so to keep them active. But it's not just banks going in the direction of no checks and no cash; my apartment complex, for example, takes only online payments. No cash, no checks, no money orders. Despite the concerns about someone hacking into debit/credit card info, I still feel much safer with electronic transactions than with using cash. For example, if someone hacks my info and makes fraudulent purchases with my debit card or whatever, it may take a while to resolve but ultimately I should get credited for those purchases that I did not in fact make. But if someone lifts cash out of my purse, that money is gone with virtually zero chance of recovery. 

I do understand the concern about federal agencies or so forth being able to track your every purchase, but isn't that what Bitcoin is for?

[riley702]

11 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Or...maybe you're in line for a HUGE inheritance in a couple of years and they're sworn to secrecy and hate to see you struggle in the meantime. 

 

10 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

OOOH, I like to delude myself into believing this scenario sometimes. Soon...

When, as a kid, I would ask if we could do something expensive, my Dad's stock answer was "When your rich uncle gets out of the poorhouse." Imagine how crushed I was when I got old enough to understand there was no rich uncle!

8 hours ago, MrSmith said:

This has been a problem ever since they started re-assigning telephone numbers to new customers. Basically, unless you're getting a number in a brand new area code, then you know your telephone number has been previously used by someone else. If the people who contact them don't update their information, then you'll keep getting calls for those people. 

The last landline I had (about 6 years ago) had been 1 digit off from a big funeral home. Got wrong numbers for them all. the. time. When I would tell them the correct number "you dialed 9607; they're 9606", they'd usually laugh and ask if I got these wrong numbers a lot. Ya think? Even got a few answering machine messages for them that I would return to let them know they'd dialed the wrong number. One of those was a downstate funeral home and the guy was so nice and funny, we ended up talking close to an hour! Before you ask, he was old enough to be my grandpa. Too bad.

I got calls for the last holder of that number for a while after I got it. One was from a very confused man who thought that meant I was now living in that person's old apartment. "No, Vivica isn't here and I have no idea where Vivica lives or lived. I have no idea why she doesn't have this number anymore or whether she's moved. I just have this number now. No, the phone number doesn't stay with the apartment. Seriously."

Edited July 18, 2017 by riley702

[theredhead77]

9 minutes ago, riley702 said:

The last landline I had (about 6 years ago) had been 1 digit off from a big funeral home. Got wrong numbers for them all. the. time. When I would tell them the correct number "you dialed 9607; they're 9606", they'd usually laugh and ask if I got these wrong numbers a lot. Ya think? Even got a few answering machine messages for them that I would return to let them know they'd dialed the wrong number. One of those was a downstate funeral home and the guy was so nice and funny, we ended up talking close to an hour! Before you ask, he was old enough to be my grandpa. Too bad.

At my last job the last for digits of my direct dial line were the same as the extension of a hospital rehab center (physical, not drug/alcohol). People would direct dial, getting my outgoing message of "Hi, you've reached theredhead77 at companyname blah blah blah" and I'd receive these long detailed messages from patients or their family. I finally figured out what hospital they were calling for and called the hospital to tell them what was going on. They said they posted a sign but the calls continued. Depending on how busy I was and how urgent the message seemed, sometimes I'd call the hospital but most of the time I didn't have the time.

[Bastet]

3 minutes ago, riley702 said:

One was from a very confused man who thought that meant I was now living in that person's apartment now. "No, I have no idea where Vivica lived. I just have this number now. No, the phone number doesn't stay with the apartment. Seriously."

I went through that with a woman trying to reach her niece.  This was 20 years ago, and I still remember the niece's name was Molly, because explaining to Aunt Dingbat how phone numbers work turned out to be exhausting. 

[kieyra]

I love gaming the credit card reward point systems (you just have to have the willpower to use it as revolving credit only and pay it off every single month). Sadly, the companies are starting to catch on to those of us who do it without carrying balances, AKA "deadbeats" (their term) and cracking down on the rewards. (I'm not talking about manufactured spending here--too much work.)

Anyway, I don't care too much about the privacy thing anymore; that ship has sailed for everyone. I've had credit cards compromised plenty of times, and the CC companies always cover it. It's a two minute phone call and a new card. 

I don't use my debit card for much, though. 

The only thing that gives me pause about a "cashless" society is the way they use it to shut down all women's access to money in Handmaid's Tale.

ETA: for the first couple of years of my current cellphone number, I had to set my voicemail greeting to "Sorry, but Brian no longer owns this phone number and I don't know who he is."

(Then in the last year: "If you're calling from the local Nissan dealership, I already turned in the lease and bought a new car". Man, those guys were relentless.)

All of this is nothing compared to the fact that I snagged a short name @ gmail in the early days of gmail that is a common first and last name. I can't even use that email account anymore, it gets so much spam and misaddressed stuff. I've gotten everything from people's bank records and mortgage paperwork to someone's unpublished novel. I have it set on permanent "you've got the wrong email address" auto response.

Edited July 18, 2017 by kieyra

[Bastet]

5 minutes ago, kieyra said:

those of us who do it without carrying balances, AKA "deadbeats" (their term)

Heh; yeah, I use mine like a charge chard, not a credit card, and the few times I have called Citibank to ask for something, I've lead with, "I know you guys hate me, because in the 25 years I've had a card with you I've never carried a balance or even had an annual fee, but ..." 

Putting pretty much everything on my card so there's just one bill to pay each month is one of the rare situations in which I put convenience over privacy.  (The rewards - like cash back or frequent flyer miles - are nice, but convenience has always been my motivation.)  I don't have any particular security concerns, because in all that time I've never had a fraudulent charge show up, and when I've had a charge put through for the wrong amount (e.g. numbers got transposed), it has been very easy to have it corrected.

[theredhead77]

24 minutes ago, kieyra said:

All of this is nothing compared to the fact that I snagged a short name @ gmail in the early days of gmail that is a common first and last name. I can't even use that email account anymore, it gets so much spam and misaddressed stuff. I've gotten everything from people's bank records and mortgage paperwork to someone's unpublished novel. I have it set on permanent "you've got the wrong email address" auto response.

OMG that reminds me - I have an uncommon last name and my email is basically msmith at gmail. I would receive a ton of very personal, very confidential emails for someone who used my email address but added a 3 at the end - basically msmith3 . I used to respond to the sender saying I am not the intended recipient but the same people would continue to include me on these non BCC chains. I finally identified who the person was, reached out and set up a filter to forward messages. That was years ago and when I search I still see emails meant for him in my deleted items.

[partofme]

3 hours ago, BookWoman56 said:

Despite the concerns about someone hacking into debit/credit card info, I still feel much safer with electronic transactions than with using cash. For example, if someone hacks my info and makes fraudulent purchases with my debit card or whatever, it may take a while to resolve but ultimately I should get credited for those purchases that I did not in fact make. But if someone lifts cash out of my purse, that money is gone with virtually zero chance of recovery. 

 

 

This is why I like using credit.  Not that long ago I refilled my metrocard, and I stupidly used to never get a receipt, and when I went to swipe it it said there were insufficient funds on it.   A week later my credit card refunded the charge.   If I'd used cash I would have been out the money and it was around $120, not chump change for me.

[MrSmith]

14 hours ago, BookWoman56 said:

checkless society.

I haven't written a check in 18 years. The last time I wrote any checks was when I had to pay rent (going to the west side of Madison from the east side of Madison), and pay two bills (one going to FL, one going to CA). The USPS misrouted all three of them. They ended up going all over the country: Texas, Maryland, Alaska, Hawaii, Maine, NY, Colorado, and possibly a couple of other places that I cannot now remember. I ended up being late on all three bills, which cost me quite a lot of money in spite of the fact I had the postmarked envelopes to prove I mailed it on time and that the USPS fucked it up. It was this event that caused me to stop using the USPS unless absolutely necessary. I switched to paying as many of my bills online as I could. I started hand-delivering my rent to the property management company, and so on.

Quote

But it's not just banks going in the direction of no checks and no cash; my apartment complex, for example, takes only online payments. No cash, no checks, no money orders.

I have my rent direct deposited into my landlord's account. Granted, I don't like in an apartment complex. However, even if I did, I would work with the property management to work out the same arrangement.

Quote

Despite the concerns about someone hacking into debit/credit card info, I still feel much safer with electronic transactions than with using cash. For example, if someone hacks my info and makes fraudulent purchases with my debit card or whatever, it may take a while to resolve but ultimately I should get credited for those purchases that I did not in fact make.

You're only of the opinion that it would be easy to deal with because you haven't had to get that situation corrected. I and several people I know to whom this has happened, particularly my sister-in-law to whom this has happened more than once (in my opinion, due to her carelessness), and it has taken them two or three years each to get straightened out.

Quote

But if someone lifts cash out of my purse, that money is gone with virtually zero chance of recovery. 

My wife and I don't worry about this because we're more aware of our surroundings and we keep cash in places where it's not easy for someone to just snatch it. In 15 years of dealing exclusively in cash (for offline purchases/transactions) and sometimes carrying rather large amounts, we've yet to be robbed or had any money stolen.

Quote

I do understand the concern about federal agencies or so forth being able to track your every purchase, but isn't that what Bitcoin is for?

Bitcoin isn't currency in the United States unless you're doing something illegal or there are taxes to be collected [on it]. Otherwise, the government rules it not to be a currency and there's very little legal you can spend it on. Mostly, you can buy various drugs, weapons, and other either illegal or suspect goods and services. And if you think Bitcoin is anonymous, you're sadly misinformed.

11 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

OMG that reminds me - I have an uncommon last name and my email is basically msmith at gmail. I would receive a ton of very personal, very confidential emails for someone who used my email address but added a 3 at the end - basically msmith3 . I used to respond to the sender saying I am not the intended recipient but the same people would continue to include me on these non BCC chains. I finally identified who the person was, reached out and set up a filter to forward messages. That was years ago and when I search I still see emails meant for him in my deleted items.

You are much nicer than I am. I wouldn't have gone to these lengths. I also wouldn't have bothered to alert the sender that the wrong person received it. Yes, I am an asshole.

[Katy M]

11 minutes ago, MrSmith said:

I haven't written a check in 18 years. The last time I wrote any checks was when I had to pay rent (going to the west side of Madison from the east side of Madison), and pay two bills (one going to FL, one going to CA). The USPS misrouted all three of them. They ended up going all over the country: Texas, Maryland, Alaska, Hawaii, Maine, NY, Colorado, and possibly a couple of other places that I cannot now remember. I ended up being late on all three bills, which cost me quite a lot of money in spite of the fact I had the postmarked envelopes to prove I mailed it on time and that the USPS fucked it up. It was this event that caused me to stop using the USPS unless absolutely necessary. I switched to paying as many of my bills online as I could. I started hand-delivering my rent to the property management company, and so on.

I write checks all the time. Rent (I don't think my landlord accepts any other payment, beyond possibly money order), cable, electricity, dentist (he also doesn't accept any other payment, well possibly cash), DMV (they charge extra for credit card).  I obviously do have internet, but believe it or not, some poorer people can't afford it, but they still have bills.  What would they do in a checkless society?

13 minutes ago, MrSmith said:

My wife and I don't worry about this because we're more aware of our surroundings and we keep cash in places where it's not easy for someone to just snatch it. In 15 years of dealing exclusively in cash (for offline purchases/transactions) and sometimes carrying rather large amounts, we've yet to be robbed or had any money stolen.

I've never had cash stolen either.  In fact, one time I stupidly left my pocketbook at a pizza place,, and it was turned in to the counter with all the contents in tact.  I know, incredibly lucky, but that was the only time I've done something that stupid.

[MrSmith]

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

I obviously do have internet, but believe it or not, some poorer people can't afford it, but they still have bills.  What would they do in a checkless society?

This is also one of the concerns of a cashless society because cashless societies would disenfranchise the poor and raise a barrier to participating in society. Sweden is being watched very closely, by smart people whose jobs it is to do that, because of this very thing.

[Katy M]

29 minutes ago, MrSmith said:

This is also one of the concerns of a cashless society because cashless societies would disenfranchise the poor and raise a barrier to participating in society. Sweden is being watched very closely, by smart people whose jobs it is to do that, because of this very thing.

I've wondered about other things.  Such as, how would you give money to a homeless person.  How do you give your kids a couple of dollars?  How would kids make money mowing lawns or babysitting?  I don't like the idea.  It's fine to not use cash if you don't want to/need to. It seems wrong to force that.

[BookWoman56]

1 hour ago, MrSmith said:

You're only of the opinion that it would be easy to deal with because you haven't had to get that situation corrected. I and several people I know to whom this has happened, particularly my sister-in-law to whom this has happened more than once (in my opinion, due to her carelessness), and it has taken them two or three years each to get straightened out.

My wife and I don't worry about this because we're more aware of our surroundings and we keep cash in places where it's not easy for someone to just snatch it. In 15 years of dealing exclusively in cash (for offline purchases/transactions) and sometimes carrying rather large amounts, we've yet to be robbed or had any money stolen.

Bitcoin isn't currency in the United States unless you're doing something illegal or there are taxes to be collected [on it]. Otherwise, the government rules it not to be a currency and there's very little legal you can spend it on. Mostly, you can buy various drugs, weapons, and other either illegal or suspect goods and services. And if you think Bitcoin is anonymous, you're sadly misinformed.

There are some unwarranted assumptions here. I have had to get the situation with a fraudulent charge corrected a couple of times. Once, my bank contacted me to ask about a pending purchase because they noticed I had just used my card in a restaurant in the city where I live, yet 10 minutes later my card was being used for a fast food purchase in a city 100 miles away. Once I confirmed that the fast food purchase was not legit, they dealt with it. The other occasion was when somebody in mainland China used my card for an online purchase. That took less than 48 hours to have the charges reversed. I'm sorry you have had bad experiences with getting this sort of issue resolved, but many other people have had minimal problems with the process.  In terms of carrying cash, despite having very good situational awareness, I was held up and raped at gunpoint while walking from my workplace to my car after being required to work late. I happened to have a good bit of cash on me at that time; I hadn't gotten the cash that day, so it's not like this guy saw me exiting a bank and decided to target me for that. However, the cash was taken from me, and I had zero options for recovering it.  Starting from that point forward, I never carry more than $20 in cash. Finally, my remark about bitcoin was intended to be humorous. If you're making legal purchases using a check or plastic, yes, there's going to be a paper trail. However, even if you pay in cash, many businesses have surveillance cameras in place and so they record you making that purchase. So, using cash doesn't necessarily erase the ability of law enforcement or big brother in general to monitor your spending.  I don't really care how other people choose to pay their bills and so forth, but for me, I much prefer the convenience of electronic payments and have had minimal problems with doing so.

[Blergh]

1 hour ago, MrSmith said:

This is also one of the concerns of a cashless society because cashless societies would disenfranchise the poor and raise a barrier to participating in society. Sweden is being watched very closely, by smart people whose jobs it is to do that, because of this very thing.

In addition to that, I also wonder how vulnerable it makes those who are fiscally well-off but have ZERO cash at their disposal   to identity theft and being completely ruined +broker than broke re identity thieves and cyber attacks.

[AgentRXS]

@BookWoman56 What terrifying experience! I'm so you had to go through that. I am the same as you---I never carry more than $20 cash at me at all times.

Edited July 18, 2017 by AgentRXS

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 7/18/2017 at 8:20 AM, Katy M said:

I've wondered about other things.  Such as, how would you give money to a homeless person.  How do you give your kids a couple of dollars?  How would kids make money mowing lawns or babysitting? 

Probably by waving a phone around, but I'm a little fuzzy on the details.

 

Quote

so it's not like this guy saw me exiting a bank and decided to target me for that.

In a strange (and unique) series of circumstances about 15 years ago, I had $70,000 in cash to deposit into a commercial account at Bank of America.  It was in those bundles of bank-issued $100 bills.  I went into the bank and set it on the counter and said I needed to deposit it into a commercial account.  They said they had to see my social security card.  I said it's not my account, it's a commercial account, but they still wanted to see my social security card.  I said I don't even have a social security card, but I know my social security number.  They said they had to see my actual card and refused to take the deposit without it.  This went on for a while as I worked my way up to supervisors.

Eventually I put the $70,000 back in my coat pockets and walked, quickly, to the car.

As my typical luck would have it, it was one of those rare snow days in Austin, Texas, where it's treacherous to drive because (1) they don't plow, and (2) nobody knows how to drive on it, and the money needed to be deposited that day. 

I went home and gathered up documents with my social security number on them (I remember my law school transcript in particular), and creeped to another branch to beg them to take the cash.  They didn't need anything showing my social security number, much less the actual card.  They apologetically said it would take a few minutes because they'd have to count it, even though it was in those bank-issued bundles, but that was the only snag.

I'm getting pissed off all over again.

Edited July 20, 2017 by StatisticalOutlier

[theredhead77]

@BookWoman56 how terrifying! I'm so sorry you had to go through that.

Once I left my debit card at the bar. I signed my name and put the card right back on the tray. Noticed a few hours later when I went to put my things away. Called the bank's lost/stolen card line and someone took it on a spree in a city a few miles away. The bank cancelled the card, issued me a "provisional" credit (until I filled out the paperwork) and I picked up my new card on Monday. No problems getting my money back even though I left the card in the first place.

I've had fraudulent charges against my account a few times. Each time it's taken less than 5 minutes to get situated. The most inconvenient part is picking up a new card (faster than waiting for them to mail me one).
 

Pet peeve: people over the age of 20 who are intentionally jerks or contrary and think they're cool for behaving that way. I say 20 because sometimes it take a few years of adult-hood to figure out your I'm an asshole, deal with it, high school attitude won't get you far in life.

[langway]

On 7/17/2017 at 6:40 PM, BookWoman56 said:

Maybe it's because I work for a very large bank, but I have no major issues with going to a cashless and checkless society. Checks are a PITA to deal with in terms of processing and so forth. Given how wretched some people's handwriting is, I'm amazed that there is not a ton of processing errors. In the past 3 years, I've written maybe 3 checks. I primarily use my debit card for purchases, and pay my bills online using either my debit card or an ACH from my checking account. I have a couple of credit cards that I use for token purchases once a month or so to keep them active. But it's not just banks going in the direction of no checks and no cash; my apartment complex, for example, takes only online payments. No cash, no checks, no money orders. Despite the concerns about someone hacking into debit/credit card info, I still feel much safer with electronic transactions than with using cash. For example, if someone hacks my info and makes fraudulent purchases with my debit card or whatever, it may take a while to resolve but ultimately I should get credited for those purchases that I did not in fact make. But if someone lifts cash out of my purse, that money is gone with virtually zero chance of recovery. 

I do understand the concern about federal agencies or so forth being able to track your every purchase, but isn't that what Bitcoin is for?

I also work for a bank, and checks are the worst. Why people are still accepting personal checks is beyond me. We have clients come in constantly asking why their account is in the negatives. Well, that check you deposited and the moment the funds were available you spent? It bounced. Sorry for your luck. No, we can't refund your overdraft fees in-house, feel free to call the 1-800 number. Oh, they told you to get bent already because this has happened to you a hundred times before and you still haven't learned to not accept personal checks? That's a shame. 

Cash doesn't bother me as much, but checks absolutely suck for a variety of reasons. And that's not including waiting behind someone in the checkout line who is writing out a check for a 7 dollar purchase. Ugh.

[Sun-Bun]

8 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

Pet peeve: people over the age of 20 who are intentionally jerks or contrary and think they're cool for behaving that way. I say 20 because sometimes it take a few years of adult-hood to figure out your I'm an asshole, deal with it, high school attitude won't get you far in life.

I've known a few of these annoyingly self-impressed social outcast types myself; Hell, this sounds like my own brother---these folks really do think they've got it alllll figured out. It's not them with the problem, it's everyone else! Small talk is for pussies! They consider themselves to be "real" and everyone else is "fake". Because God forbid you slap on a smile and treat folks with courtesy and manners like a civilized human being, nahhh, that's being so phony to "real" folks like that.

Yep, good job getting/keeping a job and having healthy/mature adult relationships with that attitude. But at least they're keeping it "real", right? Real assholes indeed.

[BookWoman56]

@AgentRXS and @theredhead77, thanks for your well wishes. It was a long time ago, and I don't dwell on it any more.

I've left my debit card behind at a Thai restaurant that I go to fairly often; I discovered it about 30 minutes later when I was in the checkout line elsewhere and reached for my debit card that was not where it should be. The restaurant was still open, and I retrieved the card with no problem. They had put it in the cash register for safekeeping. That was probably 10 years ago, and by a weird coincidence  my daughter lost her DL, debit, and a credit card at another Thai restaurant in the last couple of weeks; they were in her pants pocket and fell out while she was sitting. Again, the staff found them and put them up; they had already closed for the evening when she realized she had lost them but she was able to retrieve them first thing the next day when the restaurant opened.  We had discussed that if the restaurant didn't have them, she would have to cancel the cards and get new ones, and also send off for a new DL. Fortunately, that didn't happen but she at least now understands what a PITA it would be to cancel and replace those cards.

Edited July 19, 2017 by BookWoman56

[StatisticalOutlier]

I can't remember if we've discussed this here before--does anybody else remember counter checks?  There were books of blank checks from various banks in town sitting on store counters, and you'd take a check from the book from the bank where your account was and write a check.  Young people are probably going, "Seriously???"

[MargeGunderson]

I recently had a local Thai restaurant bill my credit card twice for a takeout order. My credit card company took care of it, no problem. The restaurant called and left me a message apologizing profusely for it - and then called back a couple of days later to apologize again! My husband picked up to tell them it was not a big deal, mistakes happen, we'll still order food, etc. because they were so anxious to make it right. (I swear we don't order from them all of the time, maybe once every 6 weeks or so). 

@StatisticalOutlier, I'm not all the young, but seriously? I'm trying to figure out how that would actually work.

[JTMacc99]

1 hour ago, MargeGunderson said:

I recently had a local Thai restaurant bill my credit card twice for a takeout order.

I had a local pizza restaurant take my bank card number over the phone incorrectly, missing by one digit or maybe transposing two digits. 

Turns out that was still a good number and belonged to somebody else in my town. I found this out when the police showed up on my doorstep asking questions, I guess by tracing back the purchase to where the pizza was delivered. He was like, "Do you order from Bob's Pizza?" Yep. "Did you place an order last Friday?" Maybe; sounds like something I would do. "Do you have an account with Super Mega Bank?" Yep. "Do you have a bank card with them and if so, may I see it?" Sure.  Then he tells me that somebody else was charged for my pizza, and that my number was very close to their number and that the restaurant must have entered it in incorrectly. 

So that was fun.

[NutMeg]

Late to the party, but wanted to chime in as one who's a "bad" credit card holder because I pay the full amount each month. Nevertheless, even this approach was helpful to me as a free short term credit about 15 years ago, when (for circumstances outside of my power) I was stark broke but had found a freelance job that could pay the rent and other bills, except that it paid too late for the time I had to pay the rent. So I had to do a little juggling, but I was able to pay with a credit card on day xxx, get paid for my freelance work on like day xxx+15, and debited of my rent on day xxx+30. So I love credit cards (even if they don't reciprocate because I'm not a cash cow, they can still include me in their data of good credit clients, right?) but I would never, ever, keep a balance on a credit card because those accumulate crazily over time. A friend of mine did a study on impoverished people, and it was mind boggling how so often the descent began with a credit purchase of living room furniture, appliances, etc., then loss of income, then compound interest, and how scarily quickly the family could find itself stark broke .

As for "ghost" phone number - When I travel to Europe, I get a local number. One year, I got a very harrowing call on that number, from a guy whose brother had died and who had dialled the number just to hear his brother's voice on the message. That hit me hard, maybe because I too lost a younger brother and would have loved to have a number to call to hear him all himself again. I still have small tapes that were used in ancient answerphone systems, and I'm sure there must be at least a message (or part of a message) from my brother there, but the technology is changing so fast, I don't have any way to read it. Also about technology changing so fast, it's lucky my ex had some of our videos copied  on DVD (although we lost most of the sound), now the question is how long will these DVD be good for? (I'm old enough to have known the floppy disks, and lucky enough to have printed AND KEPT PAPER COPIES of some of my work there instead).         

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 7/18/2017 at 7:30 AM, MrSmith said:

You are much nicer than I am. I wouldn't have gone to these lengths. I also wouldn't have bothered to alert the sender that the wrong person received it. Yes, I am an asshole.

Tru dat.

I'm a big golden rule follower.  If my messages were getting mis-delivered, I'd be extremely grateful if someone would let me know, so I always do that.  It's no big effort on my part, and might save the other person(s) a lot of grief.  And sometimes I'll put even more effort into it (like when I found a camera and spent several hours going through the photos and figured out who the owner was (in a city 200 miles away) and found a way to contact her).  That was cool.

I like doing nice things for people.  However, I always keep in the back of my mind the time I was putting money in the parking meter at the library and noticed the car next to me had an expired meter, so I put a quarter in theirs, too.  Then I walked around to the back of that car and it had a bumper sticker that I found offensive.  Dammit!