S06.E12: The Debate

[buckboard]

Alicia's annoyance at not being included in David Lee's hire is such BS given her record of decision making without regard to her partners.

 

Speaking of which, why did she go to her office to  work with her campaign manager instead of going to campaign headquarters?  And, if she wants to be included in the firm's activities, why not work on a case instead of staring across the hallway at partners who are actually working?


 

[spiritof76]

I was just thinking, I actually really enjoyed Peter's story line last night more than Alicia's. I think they showed both his good political instincts (say what you want about him, he is very good) and I also believe he really wanted to do the right thing as well. I think the car ride with the Rev.was one of the the best insights into Peter's inner thoughts that we've had in a while. And i liked it. I feel like I have a better idea of what is going on with him than I do Alicia.

 

And just because I feel it can't be said enough. Nora For All The Wins last night! All the wins! She owned Eli so many times. I loved it!

 

 

The fact that they don't shoot the show here (see Chicago Fire and PD make the Good Wife look so ridiculous in this regard since they shoot here) is glaringly obvious. Do they not have anyone from Chicago on their production staff that can vet this stuff?

Yes! And Juliana was on a show (ER) that actually did, I thought a pretty credible job depicting Chicago even though it wasn't shot there. As someone from the area, the missteps are so glaring. I believe on ER, they would travel to Chicago a few times a year to shoot exterior shots, etc. Chicago, especially downtown has a pretty unique look in my opinion, with the el tracks, etc. You just can't substitute in NY and think no one will notice.

Edited January 12, 2015 by spiritof76

[Long Days Night]

...So when Alicia was telling John that the kiss meant nothing and she has no feelings for him, when he looked at her...was he basically saying that he does have feelings for her?...

 

 

I think it serves as a counterpoint to Peter/Ramona. Both the Florricks seem to be using their staffers for a little meaningless physical gratification without much concern for the emotional impact that may have on their partners.  Both Florricks place the public face of their facade marriage first.  Peter is far gone on that road, Alicia just taking her first baby steps, but in the same direction.

[kwnyc]

From a character and acting standpoint, it's getting harder & harder to hide that Christine Baranski's Diane Lockhart is, in fact, a more interesting character than Alicia, and Baranski is one of our finest actors. So that might be one of the reasons that Margulies/Alicia are being moved off to one side, away from the main cast.

[babs1226]

And not to mention playing him as an absentee mayor in a crisis.  I was kinda amazed they went there with a real life person and one who has a well known temper to boot.  I was thinking that the producers were probably going to get yelled at on the phone today.

I never heard them mention the mayor by name. 

[photo fox]

While I didn't love the way it came about, I'm beyond glad that Alicia finally has an answer to the "Why are you running?" questioning? That's been dogging her all season, and that she can admit that she wants to win is a really great step.

But does she really have an answer? Beyond I'm running because I want to win and I believe I can win?

You may be the Good Wife, but Diane is the HBIC, and you won't win anyone over by fucking with her.

Word to your whole post, but especially this sentence. Diane (and Baranski) appear to be the most universally well-regarded character (and actor). I don't see how pitting the two of them against each other is going to do anything but make Alicia look bad. I've asked this before, but is there any possibility the Kings are trying to turn their hero into an anti-hero? Or are they that blind about how their title character is coming off?

 

 

I never heard them mention the mayor by name.

Yeah, I don't think the mayor is supposed to be Rahm Emanuel. They didn't name the mayor last night.

[HappyDancex2]

I was just thinking, I actually really enjoyed Peter's story line last night more than Alicia's. I think they showed both his good political instincts (say what you want about him, he is very good) and I also believe he really wanted to do the right thing as well. I think the car ride with the Rev.was one of the the best insights into Peter's inner thoughts that we've had in a while. And i liked it. I feel like I have a better idea of what is going on with him than I do Alicia.

I agree with this.  Peter's feeling or POV is easier to see than Alicia, who is written close to the chest or at least less decisive.  However I disagree with him really wanting to do the right thing.  Or at least it's a lot easier to do the right thing after he's been "doing the thing" for awhile.  Snark.  He always seems like he's going to be repentant after the fact.  It's a lot harder to face temptation and turn it away which is really "doing the right thing."

[kwnyc]

He actually seemed to be more worried about keeping the peace than his dalliance (or the reactions to it). By "Giuliani moment," Eli was referring to the 10 minutes when Rudy G. was actually a comforter & leader after 9/11, and before he turned into "America's mayor." And Peter didn't seem to give a shit about it. He just wanted to make sure the city didn't explode. 

[CMH1981]

I really thought during the last scene w/Alicia and the campaign manager in her office that she was going to shut the door and draw the shades and the two of them were going to go at it.  So does this mean that Alicia is over Finn now?  I never bought them as a couple anyways, and I love that Eli's daughter is just as observant as her dad when it comes to the people they are working for.  She saw that whole steamy leaning in to chat and stare into each other eyes moment b/c Alicia and the campaign manager.

[Readalot]

Thank you DIane for finally calling Alicia on her self-centeredness. She added a bunch of partners without even consulting Cary. She is running for SA which means leaving the firm if she wins. But hey, don't you dare make a decision without her. Her whole life is making decisions without consulting others.

Apparently the way to get Alicia to fight is to bring up her husband boinking 19 hookers. She just goes off on that.

I thought the kitchen debate was well handled. I loved "yeah 2 white people deciding what the black community needs." THey also showed that there is no such thing as a monolithic "black community." People are people. They have different interests, different views, different wants/needs. No one says "white community" and expects all white folks to think alike. But minorities are treated like they are exactly alike.

. Your comment about "white community" has haunted me today. Can't stop thinking about it, it's so true! No one likes being stereotyped.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Haven't had a chance to see this yet, but others have already stated, a lot more eloquently, than I could, about Diane schooling Alicia.

 

Also, as for why the firm is back to basically the old firm, but with three new different names? If y'all will recall, last season, in one of the interviews the Kings gave, they said by the end of the season (I think), they would all be "back together again", so I think it was their plan to do just this, and in the most ridonkulous manner possible and so typical in the way they "wrap" things up.

 

I will watch this later and come back with my thoughts. Maybe.

[morgankobi]

About Chris Matthews moderating the debate...it's such a slap in the face to Chicago media people like Carol Marin, Bill Kurtis et. al. who should've been asked to cameo as the moderator. Also, the call letters situation bothered me so much.

 

 

As a viewer outside of Chicago, I understand getting a moderator (for a fake debate) that is know nationally to the actual audience. I also believe that using actual call letters, etc. may require more effort than it is worth for avoiding liability, copyright, or whatever issues would come from representing a real organization in fiction. 

My hometown has been laughably portrayed before, but the viewing audience is much bigger than just us locals.

[Boundary]

I think it serves as a counterpoint to Peter/Ramona. Both the Florricks seem to be using their staffers for a little meaningless physical gratification without much concern for the emotional impact that may have on their partners.  Both Florricks place the public face of their facade marriage first.  Peter is far gone on that road, Alicia just taking her first baby steps, but in the same direction.

 

I don't mind Peter and Alicia heading that way, it works wonders for the Underwoods, as a drama, in House of Cards. It might even pull Alicia's character out of the doldrums, then maybe I might know what the character stands for now.

[swimmyfish]

But does she really have an answer? Beyond I'm running because I want to win and I believe I can win?

 

I think that's a good enough reason, but she did also say that she believes she can do a good job. Maybe it's because I'm in the middle of my own (far less dramatic) job search, so I identify with seeing a job description and thinking "Oh, man, I'd be great at that!" but I do think that's as good a reason as any to throw one's hat in the ring. Recognizing that she wants it, and that she's capable of it is pretty good.

 

I really thought during the last scene w/Alicia and the campaign manager in her office that she was going to shut the door and draw the shades and the two of them were going to go at it.  So does this mean that Alicia is over Finn now?  I never bought them as a couple anyways, and I love that Eli's daughter is just as observant as her dad when it comes to the people they are working for.  She saw that whole steamy leaning in to chat and stare into each other eyes moment b/c Alicia and the campaign manager.

 

 

I noticed that too! She's quite a bit more than body-woman, and I am interested to see how her noticing that plays out.

Edited January 13, 2015 by swimmyfish

[marceline]

This show feels like two different shows being pressed together: one show about Alicia's campaign and the other about the law firm. Unfortunately, I'm only interested in the latter of those shows. I'd be completely down for the election storyline if there had been no split in the firm but there was so now Alicia's campaign feels superfluous and tacked on. The kitchen debate had a nice West Wing vibe. Political "elites" being forced to listen to "regular" people is very Sorkinesque and I mean that in the best way.

 

As a resident of a city that is dealing with a police shooting and protests (Cleveland), I really appreciated this episode. I found myself wishing that Peter Florrick was my governor. That's never happened before.

[TigerLynx]

I wish Alicia would admit, even if it's just to herself, that she regrets her decision to stay with Peter.  Even if she couldn't be assured of a happy future with Will, that didn't mean she had to be the Good Wife and continue being married to Peter.

 

How much longer is TGW going to be on?  They could have Alicia win so they could revamp the series.  Diane, Cary, and David at the law firm.  Alicia with new people at the State Attorney's office.

[tapplum]

Anyone else notice how Alicia going Mama Bear over Grace being in the audience was remarkably similar to Alicia going Mama Bear over Zach being in court way back when she had to give some kind of testimony re Peter being allowed out with an ankle monitor, down to her phrasing?

[Trixie Belden]

 I watch this show for everyone but Alicia.

 

 

Me too!  When she turned around and stalked out on Diane and Cary, I just wanted her to keep going.  I'm not sure whether her trajectory was supposed to always make her more independent, but the writing has made her strident and selfish.  When she brought up her kids/media attention, I just rolled my eyes because it seems more like she uses them as props for her indignant ranting, than she really worries about them day to day.

[roomtorome]

I was pretty bored but then I've pretty much detested her running for office from the beginning; I liked the first few years and all the actual legal cases and strategies.  

 

On another note - what is happening to MC?  He seems to be disappearing before our eyes he has lost so much weight.  Any idea from anyone why that is happening or is it just the common Hollywood obsession with weight?  He just doesn't look healthily to me - 

 

When's the bloody election??  Soon, I hope - they may have said but I am bored enough where I've missed stuff.

[rubyred]

I was pretty relieved when her sparkage moment with Johnny happened; hopefully this will derail the Finn/Alicia "chemistry" which IMO has been lacking all season. They had better chemistry when they weren't even thinking about having chemistry, last season. Then this season with the heavy-handed, portentous looks -- which IIRC were spurred by Alicia being mad at Peter -- it just wasn't jelling for me. But the Johnny thing - get that, girl.

I actually am wondering if Peter is going to be the one to just say fuck it, let's divorce, and make a public announcement off the cuff, as is his wont. Their reconciliation has lost its luster, to say the least, and at least Ramona was an appropriate partner for him.

In fact I hope he does and it leaves Alicia flatfooted, because she can be pretty insufferably smug about their relationship and that whole thing about both of them living separate lives doing what they want, only on the down-down low, was never going to work anyway.

Prady wins, Peter says see ya...what does the Good Wife do then?

[izabella]

Their reconciliation has lost its luster,

 

I don't even know what decade these two are pretending they're in.  It's pretty common for politicians to be divorced these days, so there's really no need for their marital pretense anymore, if there ever was.  Their relationship has been in the media so much, who among the voters would be surprised or care if they divorced now?

[lovinbob]

As a viewer outside of Chicago, I understand getting a moderator (for a fake debate) that is know nationally to the actual audience.

How about just hiring an actor to play a moderator?

[buckboard]

Some viewers seem to think the mayor on this show is supposed to be Rahm Emanuel. This isn't a documentary. The characters are fictional, even the real people who play themselves are in fictional roles.

The Cook Country State's Attorney is a woman. I don't expect TGW's SA James Castro is meant to be anything like her anymore than I think a savvy politician like Emanuel would be out of his city when he was warned that a grand jury decision was imminent.

[dbell1]

I might have missed this upthread, but I find it ludicrous that both Diane and Cary would be off in a room celebrating with the rest of the staff while their Biggest Freaking Client is in a multimillion dollar settlement case.

So, the firm is now going to be "Florrick, Agos, Lockhart, and Lee"? Anyone else ready to call it "FALL"?

[sheetmoss]

I hate that the writers don't even care that this is supposed to be Chicago.  The CBS affiliate here is WBBM, Channel 2.  They had Channel 8 and some call letters I didn't even bother to remember. 

 

When I start "facebooking" through a show - its just a matter of time before its off "records series" mode.  My Sunday DVR is a mess as it....I sure can use the time to let another program in....js

My guess, they probably didn't use WBBM,CBS2 or_____ probably due to issues when the show is in syndiction.

Oddy though, I do think that blonde was a Chicago  CH2 anchor

 

ETA: Remember the writers from the beginning didn't care to even have Alicia & Peter living in Cook County...Highland Park is Lake.

Edited January 13, 2015 by sheetmoss

[spiritof76]

 

 

Some viewers seem to think the mayor on this show is supposed to be Rahm Emanuel. This isn't a documentary. The characters are fictional, even the real people who play themselves are in fictional roles.

The Cook Country State's Attorney is a woman. I don't expect TGW's SA James Castro is meant to be anything like her anymore than I think a savvy politician like Emanuel would be out of his city when he was warned that a grand jury decision was imminent.

Well I think the confusion is that the show sometimes weaves in real life political and local figures. Like in the Good Wife universe Barack Obama is still the POTUS and from Chicago. They have mentioned it several times. They have had real life political and media figures appear as themselves. So they haven't created a completely fictional "universe" where everything is different from real life. So I think it is a valid question with this show sometimes. I too wondered who the mayor was supposed to be in this episode. They have never mentioned them by name. That being said, the way he was portrayed in this episode, I doubt highly we are supposed to think he is the real current Mayor Rahm Emmanuel. (But, and i'm just remembering this now, back when Eli's wife was looking into running for congress, Eli was grousing about political staffers running for office and said, "Rahm, does it, everyone thinks they can do it". So Rahm does exist in the Good Wife universe.) But I still don't think they want us to think the mayor is Rahm. just my two cents.

[UsernameFatigue]

I actually am wondering if Peter is going to be the one to just say fuck it, let's divorce, and make a public announcement off the cuff, as is his wont. Their reconciliation has lost its luster, to say the least, and at least Ramona was an appropriate partner for him.

 

 I am hoping that Peter and Ramona reunite. There certainly seems to be some real feelings between them, more than I have seen with Peter and Alicia - maybe ever. They are a much hotter couple that Peter and Alicia, and the continued fake marriage between the Floricks is way past its expiry date. I don't really care who Alicia ends up with, if anyone at all. She is the least interesting character on the show to me.

[allthatglitters]

I agree with the people above me who are asking what the point of starting a new firm was? FA has become LG in every way except for Will. Same offices, same staff, same investigator (did we ever find out where Robin ran off to?), same clients and same problems. As fas as I can tell, the firm has 20 partners and no associates. About a dozen staff left with Cary and Alicia, add Clarke who I miss dearly, Diane brought over Taye Diggs and six more, plus Howard and David Lee. How are they surviving financially? Plus, for all the things revealed to Alicia in that strange sexism fight, no one told her they lost Chum Hum. Now they don't have Chum Hum, they don't have Bishop. How are they paying their bills?

 

Honestly, I think the writers have forgotten that FA isn't LG. The way that Diane and Cary were talking to David Lee about "not being happy since he left" and about "coming back." That's not what happened!

 

I thought the implication was that Neil Gross grudgingly admired the way David Lee with LG performed and was going to switch back over until  David jumped back to FA and thus re-established the firms faith back with Neil and Chum Hum. Because, yeah they had lost Bishop so they were desparate to try anything to keep Chum Hum. Even went so far as to invent the reality he probably prefers to imagine with the "leaving" and  "coming back" lines. But then why not explain all that to Alicia at the time?...so maybe I'm wrong. I thought that was it for sure because I can think of no other reason they would invite that incubus back into the office than under extreme duress.

 

Yes its Back to the Future Good Wife, at least the way the firm looks. Same old offices (after putting up with all the dust noise and big hairy shirtless labourers for months in a massive renovation project). I was hoping to see more of a rivalry developing between the two firms like we got a tease of last season, with the battles being waged in court over some whacky case or another.  With David Lee's smarmy ass sitting in the opposing council's seat. With ongoing storylines such as Chum Hum bouncing back and forth depending on how clever/devious one firm is before the other.  Especially now that the last of the "good guys" Diane, was extracted from LG.  Oh well.

[Kel Varnsen]

This episode was the most boring/irritating episode I have seen in a long time. I hate the campaign storyline so a bunch of campaign people yelling at Alicia and then her debating terribly against Prady was annoying. As was Alicia trying to run her business over the phone.  I don't care about Peter and his mistress or his work as governor, so the stuff with him and the pastors seemed like a waste of time. The stuff with Florrick/Agos was kind of interesting I guess, but that was the C plotline it seems. I am just tired how this show has become so much more of a political show than a lawyer show too much of a shift in direction for me. It would be like if in say Homeland, Carrie decided to come home from the middle-east and got a job at her local police department.

 

So I'm a bit torn. I am glad to have David Lee back (I missed him more than I knew), but I am left wondering,what was the point of the whole leaving Lockhart Gardner and starting a new firm, if the whole thing was just going to end back up at the Lockhart Gardner offices and most of the Lockhart Gardner staff and the Lockhart of Lockhart Gardner back as a partner? 

I don't really get bringing back David Lee. I mean I sort of get it from a business point of view. Lose a big client, bring someone in who can land other big clients. Although is David Lee the only really good family lawyer in Chicago. But from a story standpoint I agree, we are basically back to where we started. At this point I wouldn't be too surprised if the firm tracks down and hires Will's long lost identical twin brother "Bill Gardner" who also happens to be a lawyer.

Totally glad that Diane called out Alicia on running despite Castro dropping out.  Maybe the writers were willing to commit to Alicia saying she wanted to win thus propelling her forward TO win.  Anyone know how long David Hyde Pierce's arc is supposed to be?  The only good thing about this is that at least we'd have a show split with the "lawyer storylines" sans Alicia/ripped from the headlines and then the "alicia as state's attorney" storylines and the various crossovers.

I want Alicia to lose so bad. Prady isn't that much better, although less annoying. The kitchen debate was interesting, although wasn't Prady bashing the media at one point? Isn't that guy supposed to be a news commentator?

 

Grace has really aged!  She looked very pretty last night.  Not sure if there is much room for the kids' storylines though.  

While the kids have always been annoying, one thing I have always appreciated, is the casting. Juliana Margulies and Chris Noth would probably have crazy attractive kids in real life. 

 

I don't even know what decade these two are pretending they're in.  It's pretty common for politicians to be divorced these days, so there's really no need for their marital pretense anymore, if there ever was.  Their relationship has been in the media so much, who among the voters would be surprised or care if they divorced now?

Hasn't there been at least a few suggestions that Peter could take a run at the white house. As ridiculous as that is with his marriage record (not to mention his criminal record), has there ever been any presidents who were divorced, at least in recent history? I thought it was damn near impossible to get elected to that job unless you could show you were a family man with a strong marriage.

[spiritof76]

 

has there ever been any presidents who were divorced, at least in recent history? I thought it was damn near impossible to get elected to that job unless you could show you were a family man with a strong marriage.

Ronald Reagan. He was divorced from Jane Wyman. BUT, he was remarried to Nancy by the time he got into politics so that probably made a big difference.

 

The outgoing governor of Illinois, Pat Quinn was divorced. He has been divorced for a very long time I think. I think a governor can get away with it (being divorced). 

[marceline]

One thing I don't understand is why the show insists on making Alicia stupid the moment she's in front of a camera. Her behavior at the debate was ridiculous. Fixating on that piece of tape? What was that? For five seasons we've watched Alicia kick ass in a courtroom but now she doesn't even have enough sense to look at the camera when she's on stage?

[kwnyc]

She does get stage fright, though: we saw it at the big conference where she was giving a keynote address. But, because she's Alicia, she gets over it. Usually when someone asks her a question that pisses her off.

 

As a sort of side note: Julianna Margulies's default expression always seems to be one of resignation, or of being pensive. I thought that when she was playing Carole Hathaway. She always seemed slightly sad or upset until she was actually involved in an action. As an actor, that's what I would describe as her "quality." With Baranski, I'd call it energetic, with Cumming, nervous; with Noth, dark and weighty. Czuchry, no matter what he does, is boyish.

 

(End of casting notes ;-)

Edited January 13, 2015 by kwnyc

[swimmyfish]

One thing I don't understand is why the show insists on making Alicia stupid the moment she's in front of a camera. Her behavior at the debate was ridiculous. Fixating on that piece of tape? What was that? For five seasons we've watched Alicia kick ass in a courtroom but now she doesn't even have enough sense to look at the camera when she's on stage?

 

I thought that was maybe a callback to the series premier, where she's so fixated on the lint on Peter's suit during their press conference. Why they'd do that, I'm not 100% certain.

[Boundary]

Hasn't there been at least a few suggestions that Peter could take a run at the white house. 

 

Eli implied the same in this episode during his little spat with Johnny, he wanted to keep the Florrick marriage intact with an eye for the long term i.e. White House. It could be why they're reconstituting LG and making Alicia leave for the SA office. By making this show overtly political and, I'll mention it again, the Florricks akin to the HOC's Underwoods, they can extend the legs of The Good Wife. I'll be the first to admit, I like Alicia running for SA but I don't like the way they've gone about it. It basically boils down to Eli shouting at people. They also compounded that mistake by amplifying the Bishop and Cary nonsense, which reduced the law firm to an afterthought. 

 

After losing Kalinda and refocussing on LG as a law firm, with Alicia being their adversary as the SA, next season could be much better. They need the Florricks to spell out their political ambitions to the audience though. No more marriage drama nonsense and Alicia must embrace that together with Peter they're a political force and they want even more power. Allow the good wife to become a charade that it is. 

Edited January 13, 2015 by Boundary

[TV Diva Queen]

My guess, they probably didn't use WBBM,CBS2 or_____ probably due to issues when the show is in syndiction.

Oddy though, I do think that blonde was a Chicago  CH2 anchor

 

ETA: Remember the writers from the beginning didn't care to even have Alicia & Peter living in Cook County...Highland Park is Lake.

Ugh, why did you have to dredge up that tidbit?  I was just getting over it. I don't watch Channel 2 news, but was hoping that the blonde was "real"..

[marceline]

I wonder exactly when this episode of the show was taped. For all the talk about Ferguson, I assume it had to be before the Eric Garner travesty. I can't imagine trying to film an episode about police protests when there were real protests going on. Especially a big outdoor crowd scene like they had. That just seems a recipe for chaos.

[kia112]

They had a message at the beginning of the show saying that it was written and filmed before the grand jury decisions in Ferguson and Staten Island.

[Aethera]

I too dearly miss Clarke. Also, where did Taye Diggs go? Not that I miss him. Also didn't miss Finn tonight.

 

David Lee is better as a guest star opponent than as part of this joke of a firm. I used to love David Lee, but now he's just a reminder of how stale it's all gotten.

 

It was absurd for ChumHum ever to stay with such a firm. Really, he'd be off at some super-high-powered firm, not a random collection of disorganized partners.  Although I have to say, that last turn-about made no sense. She went to the board to say he didn't do enough to stop the nude-leaking? How what who now? That was a stupid end to things.

 

I thought Peter actually loved Ramona, or something? And how have these people not learned how to be less obvious with stuff by now?

 

I still love Eli's daughter. And I'm in favor of Grace With No Lines. And Nora was funny.

 

'You'd never say this if I was a man' said to DIANE just immediately reminded me of 'is this because I'm a lesbian?' too!  She's been totally checked out for months, and now she's mad? I do agree with others that it helped her clarify her thoughts but she's so damned santimonious for no good reason that I wanted to slap her.

 

I'd love to see Cary and Diane be competent and kick some ass together for a while.

 

As others have said, I'm watching this show for everyone except Alicia.

[pinetastic]

I think the point of the schlocky kitchen debate was a means for Alicia to realize why she's running.  She knew on a gut level this is something that she wanted to do, but the kitchen debate finally got her to articulate something substantive.  She's finally stoked about her own ideas for this campaign, which is why she reacts irrationally to  Diane and Carey. 

I'm a bit stumped as to why she played the sexism card with Diane.  Alicia is usually very good at knowing the prejudices of her opponents, maybe she thought she could get Diane to question herself. Or maybe it was Alicia's own internalized sexism that didn't allow her to admit that she had political ambitions. 

[possibilities]

I think the show has always been about politics. The premise was that Alicia is the wife of a politician and she stood by him for his career. The first season was all about how she believed in him as a public servant even after she stopped believing in him as a loyal husband. The lawyering was just something she did to pay the bills.

 

Over time, as the marriage became less of her focus and the workplace took over her life, it did become a lawyery show, but I think that having her veer into politics was inevitable. She was always highly motivated by public perception and never wanted to fully let go of Peter's career as part of her raison d'etre.

 

Seeing her take claim to her own ambition, I think is her finally becoming her own person, and not just "the good wife" of the political man.

 

I also think they've leaned father into the Clinton marriage and less on the Spitzer model, as time's gone on.

[pinetastic]

I also think they've leaned father into the Clinton marriage and less on the Spitzer model, as time's gone on.

I just watched the first hour of the (3.5hr!)  documentary on the Clinton presidency, which focused on the early part of their marriage.  And there are some definate parallels to the Florrick marriage.  Here is a clip from a 1992 interview where Bill and Hilary do a frankly better job than Peter and Alicia did at defending thier marriage.  http://youtu.be/5IpJUfy-Roo?t=3m59s

[marceline]

They had a message at the beginning of the show saying that it was written and filmed before the grand jury decisions in Ferguson and Staten Island.

 

Ah, thank you. My attention was diverted at the beginning. 

[Kel Varnsen]

It was absurd for ChumHum ever to stay with such a firm. Really, he'd be off at some super-high-powered firm, not a random collection of disorganized partners.  Although I have to say, that last turn-about made no sense. She went to the board to say he didn't do enough to stop the nude-leaking? How what who now? That was a stupid end to things.

I thought that was a stupid way to end things too. I mean if she is married to him or not her fortunes are tied to the fortunes of Chumhum. If she tanks the company it would cost her a ton of money too.

 

Plus would a divorce ever work like that? I mean Diane's old firm used to represent the wife, now her new firm represents the husband against her. Isn't there some kind of issue with this. The fact that Kalinda told Diane and Cary about the work she did when she was working for David kind of proves that. I am just remembering in the Sopranos, that there was an episode where Tony and Carmela were thinking of divorcing, so he went to all the top divorce lawyers in town to get some advice.  Once he did that they couldn't represent Carmela since Tony was already their client.

[photo fox]

I'm a bit stumped as to why she played the sexism card with Diane. {snip} Or maybe it was Alicia's own internalized sexism that didn't allow her to admit that she had political ambitions.

I just rewatched the show - well, the Cary and Diane parts - and I'm a bit stumped about this as well. It came from SO far out of left field. When Alicia said "I want to win", and then "you wouldn't even blink if I said that and I was a man".... okay, but Diane didn't blink. She gave no indication at all that she had a problem with Alicia being ambitious or wanting to win. She just questioned Alicia's loyalty and availability to the firm, which is a completely different (and valid) question.

It was SUCH an odd segue. I can't figure out of the writing is just that bad, and they truly thought it made sense? Or if we're supposed to see it as a statement of how far outside the realm of common sense Alicia is now living, since she's getting embroiled in politics and the accompanying hubris?

As a sidenote, Baranski's facial expressions in that scene could be used for a master class. She went through a whole gamut. My personal fave was the look of "well, isn't that SPECIAL" that crossed her face when Alicia was bragging about her volunteers, etc. Price. Less.

[Pike Ludwell]

One thing I don't understand is why the show insists on making Alicia stupid the moment she's in front of a camera. Her behavior at the debate was ridiculous. Fixating on that piece of tape? What was that? For five seasons we've watched Alicia kick ass in a courtroom but now she doesn't even have enough sense to look at the camera when she's on stage?

 

Seems like her consistent extreme befuddlement (until that reporter's question allowed her to get angy) would have been the story of the debate. She even came across worse than Jan Brewer did in that 2010 debate, and that's hard to do! But Brewer went on to win, so I suppose Alicia still winning is not too bizarre a storyline.

[needschocolate]

The firm is back where they started.  It is was like that whole season was just a bad dream.  Next episode - Bobby Ewing, oops, I mean Will Gardner, will step out of the shower. 

 

Words cannot express how much I want Alicia to lose the race.  

 

Me too.  But my biggest wish is that they didn't name this show after Alicia.  If they had called it "Chicago Law" or  "Law and Disorder" or "Hey! It's a Bunch of Good Actors" they could have Alicia and her political aspirations just fade farther and farther into the background until they just fade away. 

 

But from a story standpoint I agree, we are basically back to where we started. At this point I wouldn't be too surprised if the firm tracks down and hires Will's long lost identical twin brother "Bill Gardner" who also happens to be a lawyer.

 

I think, at some point, one of the writers said, "It could be interesting if we have the firm split up..." and they all jumped on the idea.  Then, when every story suggested involved pitting the new firm against the old firm, they realized, "Okay, that was a bad decision.  Let's get the firm back together."

 

Edited because I don't pay as close attention as I should.

Edited January 13, 2015 by needschocolate

[dahling]

It was SUCH an odd segue. I can't figure out of the writing is just that bad, and they truly thought it made sense? Or if we're supposed to see it as a statement of how far outside the realm of common sense Alicia is now living, since she's getting embroiled in politics and the accompanying hubris?

 

 

I have a perhaps very egotistical view of that scene: I think the 4th wall was broken. We as viewers (and forum-dwellers) have been asking ever since Castro mysteriously exited the scene, why exactly is she still running? I think Diane asked for us, and I think the Kings stuck stupid words in Alicia's mouth, basically trying to shame us for even asking the question. Well, Kings, even if Alicia were a man, if the man said "I have to run for this office because the incumbent is so awful." and then the incumbent dropped out and no mention was ever made of it again, I would ask the same question.

 

I think the emperor has no clothes. This show has great actors and slick production and very, very bad writing with occasional flares of adequacy and even entertainment.  The number of dropped and abandoned plotlines over the series run is evidence enough of that. 

[TV Diva Queen]

The firm is back where they started.  It is was like that whole season was just a bad dream.  Next episode - Bobby Ewing, oops, I mean Will Gardner, will step out of the shower. 

 

 

Me too.  But my biggest wish is that they didn't name this show after Alicia.  If they had called it "Chicago Law" or  "Law and Disorder" or "Hey! It's a Bunch of Good Actors" they could have Alicia and her political aspirations just fade farther and farther into the background until they just fade away. 

 

 

They used my local CBS affiliate's logo and call letters for the news bulletins.  We wondered if they actually tailored it for each market.  Apparently they did, because my affiliate is Channel 5, but they really don't pay any attention to Chicago.

 

 

Next episode, Bobby Ewing, oops, I mean Will Gardner, will step out of the shower.

 

I think, at some point, one of the writers said, "It could be interesting if we have the firm split up..." and they all jumped on the idea.  Then, when every story suggested involved pitting the new firm against the old firm, they realized, "Okay, that was a bad decision.  Let's get the firm back together."

So on your TV Sunday the blonde was reporting from Channel 5?  Not Channel 8?  i live in Chicago we are Channel 2, WBBM.

[CleoCaesar]

It was SUCH an odd segue. I can't figure out of the writing is just that bad, and they truly thought it made sense?

 

Putting on my cynic's hat for a sec. I think it was a clumsy way for the show to score some feminist cred points. Like, upon hearing Alicia say that, we were supposed to go, "Fuck yeah! Women are punished for doing what men do in the workplace all the time! Go, Alicia!!" and laud the show for telling hard truths. If that is the case, then, show, you failed. As valid a point as it may be, it was SO not the right way to present it or the right situation to shoehorn it in. Diane has likely seen/experienced far more gender discrimination than Alicia in her career and it was such a tone-deaf moment for Alicia to accuse Diane of sexism. Like, girl, no one was saying that you can't do it because you're a woman or you can't behave in certain ways. They were asking WHY you want to do it. Not that biased a question, I think.  

[needschocolate]

I took Diane's question as "Why are you still running if you want to be so involved in the law firm decisions?"

 

So on your TV Sunday the blonde was reporting from Channel 5?  Not Channel 8?  i live in Chicago we are Channel 2, WBBM.

 

Well, that is what I thought when I wrote my post, but I am now thinking that I was dreaming or hallucinating or confusing the show with a local news update.  It would make no sense that they would use my local affiliate as the station logo since I live no where near Chicago. The program is no longer on the DVR and the episode on demand has a revolving 8 in the bottom left corner and the CBS eye in the bottom right.   

 

Actually, I think it was a case of really well placed local affiliate logo, since it what I saw was in the lower right corner next to the eye (and, therefore, not replacing the 8). 

 

I have corrected my original post.