Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[YaddaYadda]

Nothing like a confirmed Belle pregnancy to make my excitement plummet.

[Watt]

It's going to be a long few months. I'm so glad I have you guys and this thread. <3 Maybe next year I should hire out my twins (I'm currently pregnant) to be actors on this show- I'm sure someone else after Belle will have a baby. Maybe Mulan and Red will adopt.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Watt

[SiobhanJW]

That's just what this show needs. More Neal's, Pistachio's and Liam 2.0's.

I laughed when she said it and now Everytime I read Pistachio I just laugh so hard. So riduclous.

Edited December 7, 2015 by SiobhanJW

[legaleagle53]

It's going to be a long few months. I'm so glad I have you guys and this thread. <3 Maybe next year I should hire out my twins (I'm currently pregnant) to be actors on this show- I'm sure someone else after Belle will have a baby. Maybe Mulan and Red will adopt.

 

Ginny is also pregnant again, so you may get your chance.  It depends on how the writers decide to deal with it.

[sharky]

Nothing like a confirmed Belle pregnancy to make my excitement plummet.

What Belle pregnancy thing? I didn't see a Belle pregnancy thing? Did you see a Belle pregnancy thing? All I saw was Liam is coming back and lalalalalalalala can't hear you over the awesomeness of Liam coming back!!!!!!

[HoodlumSheep]

Yay for confirmed Liam! Yay for confirmation that Cora basically runs Underbrooke, for the most part. She's probably their queen.

Also, it was suggested that Liam could be short for William and therefore we could call 2.0 Willy (Will?) if we wanted to.

I'll probably stick with Willy/2.0 and the elder one...I'm calling him Liam.

I do like Liam Prime though. lol!

[Mathius]

So the Camelot crew and Merida have officially not only had their filmed exit scene cut, but retconned.  Interesting.

[oliverwendell]

 

Kitsis: There’s potential. We know there’s still Arthur and Merida and Guinevere still in Storybrooke, so we may see them a little bit at the end of the year, but not for a while.

 

My guess is that they will insert that already-filmed exit scene just after the Underbrooke gang gets topside. 

[tennisgurl]

 

And audiences will ask, "Wait... who are those people again?"

Then, when they remember, they will say "Wait...what the hell point did these people serve?"

 

For as obsessed with plot as the writers are, they sure are quick to throw it out the window. 

[Amerilla]

Everyone is going with the anticipation of that Emma has a plan, we’re all going to go together, we’re gonna go in there, grab Hook, split the heart, and get out.

 

So, the usually logical, foolproof Emma plan. Gotcha. 

 

he finally lowered that wall and let Hook in, so she doesn’t want to lose another person who she loves.

 

If I never hear the word "wall" again, I will live a happy life. Along with "cleave," "chemistry," "life-ruiner," "dark," "hero," "villain" and "bromance."

 

You can’t keep a good witch down, and that has been the theme of this show since the beginning.

 

Really??

 

I would say it certainly looked like they re-consummated their marriage, so we’ll just have to wait and see, but I would say you’re definitely on the right clue trail.

 

JUST SAY YES, YOU IRRITATING LITTLE PUFFBALL! The answer is: "Yes, but it really doesn't matter, because Belle will have about three scenes in the entire season, may or may not live through childbirth depending on Emilie's contract status, and the baby, once born, will be handed to the Offscreen Babysitting Brigade and rarely seen again."

[Rumsy4]

With A&E saying we will see Merida and the Camelot people again, Amy Manson has taken down those questionable retweets. 

 

Although he’s become a better man, as he warned us since Season 1, he’s a difficult man to love.

 

Eddy, I don't think it means what you think it means. 

Edited December 7, 2015 by Rumsy4

[Shanna Marie]

Now I wonder if this was what Colin meant by "shocking" for how we'd see Hook again:

The real question is: can you bring hope to a place as bleak as the Underworld?

It would certainly be rather shocking to find that Hook has become some kind of Little Mary Sunshine of the Underworld, going around trying to help people from his past (and others) complete their unfinished business so they can move on, as his way of atoning for his sins. That might actually be a fun twist, to take him to the polar opposite of darkness, even while he's in a very dark place, and since he is in such a dark place and (possibly) dealing with Hades, that would still put him in an antagonistic, contrary position, so there would still be opportunity for snark. It would be an inverse of what we just saw with Dark Hook in Storybrooke, if him being Really Light Hook in the Underworld was a similar contrast against the people around him and him dropping truth bombs left and right.
 

But the main focus is obviously going to be on our core characters, which it usually is.

Good thing I wasn't drinking tea when I read this. Yes, they're bringing in a zillion guest characters, but the focus is on our core characters.

[tennisgurl]

If they really wanted Hook to shock us, they would have him give up alcohol, and fill up his flask with milk. 

[Mathius]

Here's another good one from Eddy:

 

And I think it’s going to be a lot about emotional closure.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Mathius

[kili]

It would certainly be rather shocking to find that Hook has become some kind of Little Mary Sunshine of the Underworld, going around trying to help people from his past (and others) complete their unfinished business so they can move on, as his way of atoning for his sins.

 

Well, he doesn't have to be sunshine - he could be kind of snarky like Emma was in the first season giving people their happy endings. Except, he'd be like the Ghost Whisperer or the kid in the Sixth Sense, helping people to move on from Underbrooke. That could put him at odds with Hades who doesn't want to lose minions. I expect that Hades would get to make several fun rants.  Plus, it doesn't make Hades all that evil because he just wants people to stay crossing-guards instead of slaughtering villages.

 

We can't have good things, so Hook will probably be a Pain/Panic type character - some inept henchman of Hades. He'll have forgotten Emma.

 

Or maybe he'll be frozen in carbonite on Hades wall because not only did he disappear the Dark Ones, but he didn't provide any replacements.

[KingOfHearts]

 

But the main focus is obviously going to be on our core characters, which it usually is.

LOL.

 

 

 

Should we expect him to continue to be a problem for our heroes then?

Kitsis: I think the best part about Rumple is we don’t know what he’s going to be. He’s either going to help us or hurt us, and at this point, we don’t know.

Gee, will Rumple betray our heroes again? Will he lie to Belle? I'm not sure if we can figure it out.

Edited December 7, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[sharky]

I don't think they can figure it out either as demonstrated by the past five seasons of this show.

[Rumsy4]

I'm not sure how I feel about the UW arc. It seems rather... bleak. Many of the returns are villains (Cora, Pan, Cruella). All the muahahaing is going to get old after a while. The Nevengers are going to be all mopey and angsty "confronting their past", and in the case of Snow, downright guilty when she sees Cora. Please god don't make Snow apologize to her! 

 

There seems potential for humor in the Milah+Rumple+Emma meetup. I hope they do inject humor into such scenes. A Dark One arc followed by an arc literally set in Hell is heavy stuff. 

 

Re Merida and the Camelot characters, maybe they always meant to push the resolution to 5B. They just shot all that footage as it would not be easy to assemble all the actors in one place again. 

[Mathius]

Concerning the predictability of Rumple doing the wrong thing, I dunno: there ARE many fans who genuinely bought into the "Hero Rumple" stuff, and were SHOCKED at his inevitable betrayal.  

 

So I guess A&E will always be able to fool at least some of the people some of the time.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Mathius

[Mari]

Seriously?  Because it was half a step away from "Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!"  

 

We still haven't gotten spoilers about who's filming inside, have we?

Edited December 7, 2015 by Mari

[tri4335]

When the UW spoiler came out, I posed a theory that Rumple was playing the long con to get back his son, Bae and though he drank the memory potion maybe it didn't work or he remembered at some other time. After last night, I'm doubling down on that theory! 

 

I think 5B will show that Rumple was orchestrating this outcome so he could get all the DO power. It will come to light that just like with the original curse, he was setting all the pieces and those pieces are set on the timeline changes that occured after the time travel adventure. How else do you explain that Papa Hook was alive all those years later with a sleeping curse - I would even buy that PH and Liam 2.0 were not really Hook's family but a setup by Rumple for Hook to "kill" his father so that his heart was truly dark.  He didn't really have to kill his own father just have the will to do it. So either Rumple put him in the "sleeping curse" and yes he woke up years later and had a new son or it was a glamour but either way Rumple needed that to happen.  I'm sure it was Rumple's idea for Regina to "test" Hook too and why the flashback was weird with the vest changes is that this happened only because of the new time line.  Rumple needed Hook to be willing to bring back all the DO's and then extinguish them so that Rumple could have all the power but none of the extra voices in his head. 

 

With the spoiler that Bae is in the UW and not Neal, it makes sense to me as Rumple wanted Bae back and didn't really want an adult child.  My only question now is will Rumple bring back Bae to Storybrook or will it just be his soul that will be put into the child he created with Belle before leaving! But either way he needs the DO power without being tethered to any other DO's to do it.  Everyone felt it was out of character for Rumple to just forget Neal, but pulling the long con would be in Rumple's wheelhouse.  I believe that Rumple loves Belle but his goal through the whole series has been to get his son back and if he needed ultimate power to do so, his actions in season 4 would make sense and he would sacrifice his relationship with Belle to get his son back.

[YaddaYadda]

What Belle pregnancy thing? I didn't see a Belle pregnancy thing? Did you see a Belle pregnancy thing? All I saw was Liam is coming back and lalalalalalalala can't hear you over the awesomeness of Liam coming back!!!!!!

It actually dawned on me why they did the bed scene, and made sure we knew Belle and Rumple did the dirty. It's because of Will Scarlett. Given how time passes in Storybrooke, and their wonky ass timelines, they wanna make sure no one questions the baby's paternity. 

 

Because I know that's the first thing I would've done since I'm pretty sure people in Storybrooke in relationships (and in not relationships) do have sex. They don't live like monks (and that includes Captain Swan).

 

Imagine the scandal. Disney princess on Maury to figure out her baby's paternity!

 

I was thinking about the UW, and how A&E are saying it's not hell, but sort of an in between. I'm assuming this is where people land right after they died, and then they move on at some point either to the 9th circle of hell or to Once's version of heaven.  What if people start moving on after the gang lands in the UW.

 

The clock starts moving, so maybe that signals that people start moving on to wherever it is they're supposed to go. Liam and Milah are both still in the UW even though they've been dead for centuries, or however long. Would be nice if the writers made up their minds about the length of time.

 

Hook's father said he left him a century before, so that puts his age closer to 160-165, than the whole I've been doing this for centuries, because technically, that's not the case. 

Edited December 8, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Rumsy4]

I hope they won't have Belle take a magical paternity test to prove that Rumple is the father! That would be a fun episode! Not.

They might as well have had Belle take Rumple back after his duel with Hook. This just doubled down on Belle's foolish blindness/willful self-delusion when it comes to Rumple.

[Bluerang1]

 

Kitsis: I would say it certainly looked like they re-consummated their marriage, so we’ll just have to wait and see, but I would say you’re definitely on the right clue trail.

I barfed.

 

I don't think I liked how the Underworld was described as a place for people with unfinished business. Cora was evil, why would she be in limbo?

 

Glad Zelena will be back quickly. The Arthur/Merida answer was vague whereas their other answers were pretty definitive.

[orza]

When the UW spoiler came out, I posed a theory that Rumple was playing the long con to get back his son, Bae and though he drank the memory potion maybe it didn't work or he remembered at some other time. After last night, I'm doubling down on that theory!

 

I think 5B will show that Rumple was orchestrating this outcome so he could get all the DO power. It will come to light that just like with the original curse, he was setting all the pieces and those pieces are set on the timeline changes that occured after the time travel adventure.

I don't think that's the case. When Emma and Regina show up at Rumple's shop to get Excalibur, we can see the exact moment when Rumple realizes he has an opportunity to get all the dark power back and cheat death. It was a very nice bit of acting because Robert Carlyle did it all just with his eyes. Of course, the ominous music also helped. At the beginning of the scene, the first time he came out of the back room, Rumple was an anxious little man afraid of dying. When he emerged from the back room the second time with Excalibur, Rumple was a changed man. His demeanor was confident and purposeful. He even stood taller. I think it was just as Rumple said, he saw an opportunity and he took it.

 

That is not to say that Rumple wasn't plotting some big thing with the hat last season beyond cleaving himself from the dagger. That was a just nice side effect of acquiring the immense power stored in the hat. Unfortunately, he failed. Lucky for him he got a second chance to get ultimate power thanks to Excalibur and Emma's bungling.

 

I believe that Rumple loves Belle but his goal through the whole series has been to get his son back and if he needed ultimate power to do so, his actions in season 4 would make sense and he would sacrifice his relationship with Belle to get his son back.

Well, yeah. Belle may be Rumple's true love but the great all-consuming love of his life is his son and Belle will always play second fiddle to Bae.

[shipperx]

Colin quote about the aftermath of Hook's death from one of those post-finale interviews:

So, what does that mean? We know he's in the Underworld. But what is "completely different way" and what's shocking about it? Memory wipe, as we've been speculating? I'm terrified that he'll somehow be evil in hell, in spite of the way he died as a good man who had ultimately turned away from evil, in spite of being filled with Darkness. I guess him being in some kind of torture would be shocking...

Just hope they don't copy Whedon more and have him be an incorporeal ghost. Saving the world and becoming s ghost plot really sucked. Edited December 8, 2015 by shipperx

[Mathius]

Well, yeah. Belle may be Rumple's true love but the great all-consuming love of his life is his son and Belle will always play second fiddle to Bae.

 

No, the great all-consuming love of his life is power.  Bae is second fiddle, Belle is third fiddle.

[formerlyfreedom]

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[scenicbyway]

My guess is that they will insert that already-filmed exit scene just after the Underbrooke gang gets topside.

Yep, I expect this to be followed up on just like Lily and Will.

As for Hook's new job...honestly I expect him to have 2 hands and not be a sailor. I wouldn't be surprised if he was the sheriff.

[Shanna Marie]

I don't think I liked how the Underworld was described as a place for people with unfinished business. Cora was evil, why would she be in limbo?

The way they're talking, this Underworld isn't a value judgment. It's about unfinished business, good or evil -- people who can't yet move on to their ultimate destination because perhaps there's something in them tying them to the living world. Cora may be stubbornly clinging to the idea of getting power, or getting revenge, or making up with her daughter, or destroying her daughter, or destroying Snow. Milah may be unsettled about never having seen her son again or worry about Killian or wanting revenge against Rumple. Liam might have regrets about being an idiot and trusting his king, and he might be worried about his brother. And so forth.

 

So, going back to the idea of maybe Hook being a force for hope in the Underworld by helping the people he feels he wronged or the people he cared about at some point to move on to their final rest, like some kind of Ghost Whisperer, only working in the Underworld rather than dealing with ghosts in the living world.

 

And I have got to stop imagining this and writing my mental fanfic because what they do with it will never be this interesting and I'll end up disappointed.

[tri4335]

I don't think that's the case. When Emma and Regina show up at Rumple's shop to get Excalibur, we can see the exact moment when Rumple realizes he has an opportunity to get all the dark power back and cheat death. It was a very nice bit of acting because Robert Carlyle did it all just with his eyes. Of course, the ominous music also helped. At the beginning of the scene, the first time he came out of the back room, Rumple was an anxious little man afraid of dying. When he emerged from the back room the second time with Excalibur, Rumple was a changed man. His demeanor was confident and purposeful. He even stood taller. I think it was just as Rumple said, he saw an opportunity and he took it.

 

 

True but it could also be that like in the first curse something said or done triggered his memory like when he heard "Emma".  Either way he is on the trip to UW to go after Bae.

[Camera One]

Underworld is "unfinished business" according to A&E?  I guess they're writing "Lost" again.

 

I hope Cora isn't being rewarded in the Underworld.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

 

Why is Cora being rewarded in the Underworld?  So much for Snow killing Cora being such an evil thing.

Maybe she stepped up the ladder for good behavior? Or you know... she manipulated the heck out of Hades and has him on her leash.

Edited December 8, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

More from their interview...

 

 

 

Kitsis: The real question is: can you bring hope to a place as bleak as the Underworld?

 

Well, you couldn't even bring hope to Camelot.  So, the answer is no?

 

 

 

Why did you want to head to or explore this new realm, the Underworld?  Horowitz: Well, I think one of the things that was appealing to us was that our take on the Underworld is not hell.

 

So why was it described as being hell for the entirety of the finale episode when it looked like everyone was doomed to it?  

 

 

 

So there’s nods to the Disney movie as well as nods to mythology, and then it kind of goes into the Once Upon soup and becomes our own thing.

 

What an apt analogy.  A soup with the various elements that don't mesh and soak until they're a soggy mess and then they're poured down the drain like Merlin spagettios.

 

 

 

Kitsis: I think the best part about Rumple is we don’t know what he’s going to be. He’s either going to help us or hurt us, and at this point, we don’t know.

 

I'll bet you don't.  So you can make him do whatever, whenever.  

 

 

 

What themes do you intend to explore in the second half of the season?  Kitsis: Well, one theme is going to be about your past coming back to haunt you.

 

Maybe we might get some nice scenes with Snow and her parents who died before their time.  Too much to ask?  

Edited December 8, 2015 by Camera One

[ParadoxLost]

So, what does that mean? We know he's in the Underworld. But what is "completely different way" and what's shocking about it? Memory wipe, as we've been speculating? I'm terrified that he'll somehow be evil in hell, in spite of the way he died as a good man who had ultimately turned away from evil, in spite of being filled with Darkness. I guess him being in some kind of torture would be shocking.

 

I wonder if we'll get pre-Neverland / Liam's death Killian.  But I would guess that the clue is going to be what Hook's unfinished business is.  I've got nothing on that because I think the manner of his death took care of that about as much as possible.

 

I dare not get my hopes up.  But Maid Marian of the narrowly avoiding death by Evil Queen only to be retcon killed by Zelena needs to hang around the Underworld to have a conversation with Robin Hood that is not at all understanding.

 

Oh and as I've said before, of course the Underworld isn't hell.  It has all the ambiance of a late seventies post apocalypse movie.  "Saaaviiiooor, come out to play-ay!"

Edited December 8, 2015 by ParadoxLost

[chrisvee]

Well it was hell when they were all going to be trapped there in place of a DO. Rumple waxed poetic about how it was worse than anything and made it sound like they'd long for death. Now it's Flash Sideways world.

I'll just assume the DOs were in the Tartarus subdivision.

Now we have Regina's mother as the Mayor, Rumple's daddy as the owner of Mr Gold's, Hook's daddy running the used car lot. Let's guess who else -- James as Sheriff and the Blind Witch running Granny's?

I guess Hook gets to run the ferry service? Or duck boat tours?

Still can't get over someone calling the paramedics to take Hook away...

Edited December 8, 2015 by chrisvee

[KingOfHearts]

 

So why was it described as being hell for the entirety of the finale episode when it looked like everyone was doomed to it?

Oh and Eddie described 5B as "hell" as well.

 

 

Maybe we might get some nice scenes with Snow and her parents who died before their time.  Too much to ask?

I was really hoping Emma might meet Eva and Leopold, but they probably don't have any "unfinished business" unless Eva needs to end her feud with Cora or Leopold needs to speak with Regina.

Edited December 8, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

I was really hoping Emma might meet Eva and Leopold, but they probably don't have any "unfinished business" unless Eva needs to end her feud with Cora or Leopold needs to speak with Regina.

 

Eva needs to apologize to Cora for tripping her, and Leopold needs to atone for being a neglectful husband to Regina.  Snow should receive a public flogging for killing Cora, and Percival should give Charming a good whipping.  And no doubt Emma will need to apologize to Cruella, Henry as well for ultimately causing her fall off the cliff.

 

It's kind of ridiculous that Big Bads like Cora and Peter Pan are just kicking around Dilapidated Storybrooke.  No eternal fires of hell, eh?

Edited December 8, 2015 by stacey
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[Dianthus]

As for naming Baby Green Bean, Grimm already named their rape baby Kelly (after Nick's mom), so I think that's out. Funny, tho', if they went that way.

 

I had an evil rogue thought from Satan today. What if Killian and Milah are together in the UW? I'm usually wrong about this sort of thing, tho'.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I had an evil rogue thought from Satan today. What if Killian and Milah are together in the UW? I'm usually wrong about this sort of thing, tho'.

Or... Liam and Milah. *dun dun dun*

[PixiePaws1]

I had an evil rogue thought from Satan today. What if Killian and Milah are together in the UW? I'm usually wrong about this sort of thing, tho'.

Omg...i had the same thought....the unfinished business of a family with Milah and young Bae...Milah goes home after helping kids cross the road to Killian helping Bae with his homework..

I so so don't want Emma walking into that..but just what Hades might set up to scare her back to the land of the living....i need to cry some more...:o ((

[Rosiejuliemom]

I'm hoping to see a potluck at the Underbrooke version of Granny's. Dead and not-so-dead comingling in the Most Awkward Dinner Imaginable? I'd forgive any number of past (and future) sins if that came to pass.

[kitticup]

I would think Zelena would be part of Cora's unfinished business. It's too bad that zelena is very unlikely to meet Cora.

I really want Leopoldo to appear and his unfinished business is with Regina and how badly he failed Snow by taking Regina as a wife. Regina killed him, usurp snow's rightful place, tried to kill his daughter and granddaughter. I want robin to react to finding out Regina killed her husband, her not fully consenting lover and her father. That sound set up warning signs.

I wonder if we'll get pre-Neverland / Liam's death Killian.  But I would guess that the clue is going to be what Hook's unfinished business is.  I've got nothing on that because I think the manner of his death took care of that about as much as possible....

 

Oh and as I've said before, of course the Underworld isn't hell.  It has all the ambiance of a late seventies post apocalypse movie.  "Saaaviiiooor, come out to play-ay!"

I've been thinking that hook might revert to Lt. Jones in the underworld. He would be united with his brother and he would be the man he was meant to be had his path never crossed the Stilskin clan. Hades could point out that waking hook from his new life would be cruel because of all the loss and suffering he has encountered. Hook is at peace now. I would love to see everyone react to meeting Lt. Jones.

Ps I loved that movie. Only in the 70's would you have roller skating gangs.

[KAOS Agent]

I dare not get my hopes up.  But Maid Marian of the narrowly avoiding death by Evil Queen only to be retcon killed by Zelena needs to hang around the Underworld to have a conversation with Robin Hood that is not at all understanding.

 

I'm fairly certain that sometime way back, they mentioned that Robin's dark past would be explored in 5B. So sadly, I'm expecting some stupid "Heart of Gold" type episode for him where nothing is relevant at all really to the main characters and Marian won't even be a feature because she was the one who was responsible for his "code" and wasn't around for the Evil!Hood days.

Edited December 8, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[chrisvee]

Is Killian's unfinished business with Liam (guilt he couldn't save him) or his father (needing to accept and forgive)?

[Babs Gordon]

leaf lady https://twitter.com/leafladygreens/status/674225638266372096

 

Is it too much to hope for an angsty kiss in the rain?

[HoodlumSheep]

Is it too much to hope for an angsty kiss in the rain?

Lol. My mind went straight to that too.

Are they still filming 5x14? Sounds like we get to see Zelena in Oz at this point. I wonder when Mulan and Ruby are going to pop up again? They said we'd see them again in 5b for an ep or two.

[Serena]

I don't know if Adam's first script tease of the 100th episode being Regina saying "me" was trolling, but I LOL'd.

[Babs Gordon]

Lol. My mind went straight to that too.

Are they still filming 5x14? Sounds like we get to see Zelena in Oz at this point. I wonder when Mulan and Ruby are going to pop up again? They said we'd see them again in 5b for an ep or two.

 

I think they're still filming 5x14. I don't think I've seen a script title for 5x15 yet, which usually indicates they're filming a new episode.  

 

Didn't Bex Mader say at a con that she filmed a scene with Jen and Colin? I wonder if that mean that she made it from Oz to the Underworld. If so, why would she do that when she could go back to Storybrooke and take her baby while Regina and Robin are away? 

 

While I do enjoy Mulan and Ruby, I really don't want another random 5x09 episode in the Enchanted forest if it doesn't have anything to do with the main plot. Especially if it's going to be put near the climax of the half season again. 

[Watt]

I wish they would stop with the guest star episodes altogether and just focus on the main cast. Mulan and Ruby aren't a part of the main cast anymore and until they are, I just don't care. Samesies for Meridian and everyone from Camelot. I don't mind side characters coming that actually relate and tie into our chars, like Daddy Hook, Cora, Pan, but no more standalones for the rest of these people.