S05.E08: Coda

[Pete Martell]

I think the episode worked in the sense of building tension and dread. The rest was a mixed bag.

 

Best part - Morgan at the end. Really effective material, wonderful performance from Lennie James. And just as before, Morgan was dancing on the edge of madness, yet everything about his demeanor changed when he saw Rick's name. I can't wait to see Rick and Morgan together again.

 

The stuff with Michonne/Gabriel/Carl and the DC returnees clashed with the hospital material, and I wish the church part had all been in last week's episode, but it was worth it to see Michonne kicking ass again. I loved the way the screen almost seemed to shimmer when she got out her katana. I love that the katana killed a walker all on its own. It's just THAT awesome. And I'm glad that Gabriel's stupidity didn't get anyone killed. I think he's finally learning. I get that they had to do all this to make sure the church wasn't a safe haven, and they had to have the shot of Gabriel begging to be let in. It was heavy-handed, but I get it.

 

As soon as Maggie learned about Beth I knew Beth was dead. It's TV cliche #43, probably. I thought Lauren Cohan did a great job with the reactions. Now if only they'd had her mention Beth before instead of trashing the character by omission. This is another case where the show assumed viewers knew something they did not (that Maggie wasn't going to mention Beth because she assumed Beth had to be dead), and it took a big toll. I feel sorry for Daryl, but if we see more of his manpain (yet again) than Maggie's reaction, I'm going to be ticked.

 

I'm sure it makes me a bad person, but Rick was hot as hell in this episode. Crazy eyes and all. So-bad-it's-good hot. Pure skeevy sex godliness. And he was truly unhinged for most of this, all while doing his best to be under control. He's never been more dangerous than he was here. He was right all along - the plan ended terribly. Yet I can't help wondering if he hadn't killed Bad Bob, would they have accepted him as a trade for Noah? Or would it never have worked out?

 

I feel like they spent too much time trying to make us sympathize with Dawn or understand Dawn, when, just like with The Governor, I didn't care. I never cared. On paper, her dynamics with Beth interested me, and the fact that they became each other and killed each other interested me, but I just felt like it was all very talky and draggy.

 

I will give some points to the actors, choreographers, and/or stunt people, because Dawn's fight with Generic Rapey Cop #6 was one of the most intense fight scenes I can remember on the show.

 

I was very upset when Beth died. I keep wondering how upset I would have been if I hadn't been spoiled. If I would have been even more devastated. Yet there was also something niggling at me, in that I almost felt like Beth had a death wish. Like the place had truly destroyed her psychologically and she wasn't able to survive. Otherwise it just sort of feels like she just did something so she'd have to die, because they needed a death.

 

The Sasha and Tyreese scene felt out of place. I'm glad we finally got the explanation about Gareth, but it just makes Tyreese seem more like a liability. I really like Tyreese, but he's very lucky that key people in the group keep quiet about his weaknesses. And I'm not sure how we're supposed to feel about Sasha saying the Sasha he knew is gone. Happy? Sad? Both? Maybe we're supposed to make our own minds up. That's not a bad thing, but too much ambiguity eventually drains a show of meaning.

 

The show continues to struggle to articulate a message about whether or not we're supposed to hope. They suggest that we should be concerned about Rick's darkness, Carl's darkness, the group going too far...yet anyone who ever espouses a positive outlook tends to die. So which is it?

 

I'm going to miss Beth, and I'll miss Emily's performance. I know the character got a lot of [!@#$%^&*], and as long as people didn't go after the actress, that's fine - everyone has a right to their opinion. But I always liked Beth, even when she was just the girl who sat on the prison steps singing Tom Waits songs. I'm just going to miss her, and I hope she's remembered for who she was, not because of Daryl or because of a shock value death.

 

Thank you, Emily.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Pete Martell

[ToniG]

Dawn had her gun in front of her drawn and pointing ahead. When Beth stabbed her, I think Dawn's hand reflexed in response and pulled the trigger. That's why she mouth's "I didn't mean it...."

 

 

What, I can't believe that NO ONE had mentioned that when Father Stupid was exploring the school and specifically the BBQ pit area, that it was Bob's FOOT and LEG charred on the BBQ? Sasha's Bob...his leg.....on...the...barbeque....

That's why FPP went back to the church after - I don't think he really believed that Gareth & co. were cannibals, until he saw the foot. That's when he realized that Rick's group was telling the truth.

[Brooke0707]

I am so heartbroken for Daryl more than anyone else. Beth was the one person he believed to represent goodness in this wdorld; she gave him faith to believe in the good in people. The fall out will not be good. And the in memoriam the Talking Dead gave for her left me sobbing.

I feel bad for him, don't get me wrong. But, I feel like he's going to be all angsty and bitchy for the rest of the season because of this and I didn't want Beth to die to further Daryl's pain. Maybe not, though. Maybe they'll all forget by February.

 

Not going to lie, I know she was unpopular around here, but I enjoyed Beth and I was really sad she died. I know she wasn't someone like Michonne, but I liked what she represented. Oh well.

[Morrigan2575]

What, I can't believe that NO ONE had mentioned that when Father Stupid was exploring the school and specifically the BBQ pit area, that it was Bob's FOOT and LEG charred on the BBQ? Sasha's Bob...his leg.....on...the...barbeque....

The down side of the live chat thread many of us reacted to the foot in that thread.

[ghoulina]

Am I the only one more pissed at useless Tyrese?

 

No. I was so annoyed to here him admit that he KNEW Martin wasn't dead. What in the actual fuck Tyrese???

 

 

I'm apparently in a minority that just doesn't get the Morgan excitement/love. Maybe everyone loves the actor from a previous role or something. Morgan was in the pilot ep, he helped Rick. He did a nutso turn in "Clear." I don't find his acting any more or less exceptional than most of the other main characters. What does everyone expect to happen when Morgan finally catches up with our group? Is he going to show them how to change the base metals into gold, or convert their urine into diesel fuel or something?

 

Morgan's tearful determination to kill his walker-wife, but not being able to overcome it....that was one of the main things that made me fall in love with this show. The pilot still stands out to me as one of the best episodes ever, and that's in no small part due to Lennie James. Also, Clear showed us that yes, Morgan had gone crazy, but he was also a fortifying badass. Morgan was methodical and clever and thought ahead. His only weakness, understandably, was his family. But in that little town, he had done so many of the things that our group should have been doing long ago. I think he has a lot to bring to the table.

[SimoneS]

I was neutral on Beth, knew her time was probably up, but didn't want her to die.  But what got me about it was Daryl's face and Rick's face. God, they just watched sweet little Beth, who they were so happy to have just gotten back, get shot in the head. Just like that. Right in front of them.  Brutal.  Rick's face killed me.

 

I agree about Rick's expression. He looked shocked and distraught. He had just quickly put his arm around Beth and kissed her. He could not believe that she was dead It reminded me of his reaction to Lori's death. 

 

Shepherd saved her people from a bloodbath. Rick and Daryl were going to take them all out.

Edited December 1, 2014 by SimoneS

[MichaelaRae]

I didn't think Beth thought she would necessarily die when she attacked Dawn. I don't think she was thinking that far ahead. I think she just wanted to strike that bitch down. With Dawn's words to Noah, Beth saw exactly who she was and what she would continue to be unchecked. 

[cal]

 

Also what the hell was up with Carol? That whole pull the plug and then she's walking out of the hospital.

 

I was actually okay with this.  They weren't sure what might be wrong with Carol, they just didn't want to waste any more resources.  But as for the quick recovery, I was hit by a car once as a child.  I was thrown a few hundred feet and hit a telephone pole.  I was unconscious for a period of time.  But, I was awake and walking and released from the hospital the same day.  Was Carol incredibly lucky?  Sure.  But I can buy that because I was just as lucky once.

[Brooke0707]

Oh and can Tyrese be the next to die? Asshole knew Martin hadn't died and he was still yapping about how excited he was that he was still the same. Please die now. Thanks.

[SimoneS]

Morgan's tearful determination to kill his walker-wife, but not being able to overcome it....that was one of the main things that made me fall in love with this show. The pilot still stands out to me as one of the best episodes ever, and that's in no small part due to Lennie James. Also, Clear showed us that yes, Morgan had gone crazy, but he was also a fortifying badass. Morgan was methodical and clever and thought ahead. His only weakness, understandably, was his family. But in that little town, he had done so many of the things that our group should have been doing long ago. I think he has a lot to bring to the table.

 

I completely agree. Interestingly, Kirkman agrees also. I think that in that the brief times that we have seen Morgan, we have seen a kind tormented man go insane because of his inability to kill his wife. Yet, Morgan remains a survivor. He seems sane again, I hope that he is. He will be a major asset to Rick and his group when he catches up them.

Edited December 1, 2014 by SimoneS

[mustbekarma]

I am so heartbroken for Daryl more than anyone else. Beth was the one person he believed to represent goodness in this wdorld; she gave him faith to believe in the good in people. The fall out will not be good. And the in memoriam the Talking Dead gave for her left me sobbing.

I didn't sob, but I got a little misty eyed. I think Hershel's death inoculated me to anyone else dying on this show. I mostly feel cheated. I didn't get to enjoy Father Gabriel dying and I didn't get any real emotional satisfaction out of Dawn dying. I should enjoy antagonists getting killed, darn it all.

[Boofish]

Rick needs a catchphrase

I'm Rick Grimes bitch

[Racj82]

Nope. The show can't make me feel like Maggie actually cared that much about her sister after the way she was written this season.

[ghoulina]

Ooooh, forgot my favorite line of the episode - when the bad cop tells Beth, "Stay in your lane, bitch!"

[Milaxx]

Well, damn. Wtf. Noah escaped once, why didn't Beth think he could just do it again?

 

Noah was there for over a year and couldn't escape on his own. It was only with Beth's help he was able to escape.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Milaxx

[mmecorday]

 

Why did you and Noah need to create the goodbye between Dorothy and the scarecrow?

To drive home the parallel between Oz and the ZA. Dawn was obviously the witch and her guards were not at all sad to see her brought down. I'm really surprised one of the cops didn't say, "She's dead. You killed her."

[thuganomics85]

 

Nope. The show can't make me feel like Maggie actually cared that much about her sister after the way she was written this season.

I would find it hilarious if Maggie's story for the rest of the season is that she actually doesn't care, but has to pretend to, in order to not come off like a psycho.  But, I would love it if she was sobbing and moping around in front of everyone, but anytime she's alone, she's just like "Welp, that was fun!  Back to normal!"

 

Seriously though, I'm really pissed at how horribly they failed at making Maggie be concerned for Beth.  Considering how little she's been used so far, it's not they couldn't have had a moment or two of Maggie wondering about her.

[ParadoxLost]

Rick needs a catchphrase

 

Based on TD, I'd say its 'strike one and you're done.'

Edited December 1, 2014 by ParadoxLost

[Rosiejuliemom]

They've killed a little, blond girl every MSF so far, albeit two were in zombie form. Only Megan was living when killed. I guess Beth is a bit old to fit that bill, but she was the youngest they had. So season 6 if they come across any young, blonde girls - RUN!

 

Judith's hair better hurry up and darken before next season. If that baby dies onscreen, I'm out.

[Mu Shu]

See, I can never hear the damn dialogue.    I thought the cop said "Get out of the way Beth" 

[Milaxx]

I am so heartbroken for Daryl more than anyone else. Beth was the one person he believed to represent goodness in this wdorld; she gave him faith to believe in the good in people. The fall out will not be good

I dunno. I think Darryl made some nice personal growth during his time on the run with Beth. He's doing the work to be better. He was able to give Carol that pep talk in "Consumed" and he had picked up that book on childhood abuse survivors. I think Darryl will be hurt, but he's grown enough that Beth's death will not devastate him or make him revert back to the person he was before. Edited December 1, 2014 by Milaxx

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Can someone explain how Beth died? I mean I know she was shot in the head, but it was so sudden, I didn't quite get it. What triggered it?

 

 

         Judging from Dawn's reaction, appears that the gun accidently went off.

[Joan van Snark]

Am I the only one getting bored?  I found myself doing other things and looking at the internet during the show, when I usually give it my undivided attention.  I think this whole half season has been paced oddly and just hasn't really worked for me.  Also I am really wondering if we are going to have a new 'big bad' (Governor, Gareth,  Dawn) that we build up to in the mid or season finale each season?  I just feel like everyone is going in circles and it's like we are just killing time until the next 'big death'.  I admit the DC idea did give us a new goal to look to, but even that is gone now.  At this point the only ones I really care about are Rick, Carol, Daryl, Carl, and Michonne.

[mightysparrow]

No. I was so annoyed to here him admit that he KNEW Martin wasn't dead. What in the actual fuck Tyrese???

 

 

 

 

 

Morgan's tearful determination to kill his walker-wife, but not being able to overcome it....that was one of the main things that made me fall in love with this show. The pilot still stands out to me as one of the best episodes ever, and that's in no small part due to Lennie James. Also, Clear showed us that yes, Morgan had gone crazy, but he was also a fortifying badass. Morgan was methodical and clever and thought ahead. His only weakness, understandably, was his family. But in that little town, he had done so many of the things that our group should have been doing long ago. I think he has a lot to bring to the table.

 

I feel the same way. When I realized that Morgan/Lennie wasn't coming back, I missed most of Season 2 because I was pissed. I think 'Clear' is one of the best episodes of the entire series. I'm getting a bit tired of the way they're dragging Morgan out this way, but season 5 isn't shaping up to be very good anyway.

[Morrigan2575]

Am I the only one getting bored? I found myself doing other things and looking at the internet during the show, when I usually give it my undivided attention

Nah, this was a really boring episode

Edited December 1, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[BrokenRemote]

I am so heartbroken for Daryl more than anyone else. Beth was the one person he believed to represent goodness in this wdorld; she gave him faith to believe in the good in people. The fall out will not be good. And the in memoriam the Talking Dead gave for her left me sobbing.

It would take a lot of convincing for me to buy that Beth and Beth alone represents goodness to Daryl. I think there are and have been lots of people in Daryl's life that have represented good to him and have showed him the good in people.

Yes, when Daryl thought all those people were dead Beth helped pull him out of it, and I don't doubt he is sad, but I think that to say Beth is the one person who showed him people are good does a disservice to all those other people.

Edited December 1, 2014 by BrokenRemote

[English Teacher]

Ok here is a ZA I need to know how this happens question. Just watched them shoveling a grave in the scenes to come. Where do these shovels come from? They are unable to carry a change of clothes, but they always seem to have a shovel when the need arises. How? Are these shovels that break down into tiny parts and you assemble them? Inquiring minds need to know.

[CletusMusashi]

         Judging from Dawn's reaction, appears that the gun accidently went off.

Yeah, doesn't that suck? When you accidentally shoot your potential new Aryan BFF? Poor Dawn. All she wanted to do was point a gun at people until they gave her the slave that she was demanding. Is it her fault that some people are just naturally better at doing laundry than others? Good thing Glenn wasn't there. She'd have wanted him big-time.

Edited December 1, 2014 by CletusMusashi

[Tippi Blevins]

I'm glad I read these posts because I thought at first someone had shot Beth from behind. Like we'd find out sweet, gentle Tyreese shot her for some mysterious reason. But apparently what we saw at the top of Beth's head was the exit wound? And that Dawn shot her from under her chin or thereabouts? 

 

. 

[SimoneS]

I just watched Rick hit and kill Lamson again. Sooo bad, but hilarious at the same time.

 

"You'll die, you will all d..." *Shoots him.*

"Shut up."

 

Didn't have to be this way, Lamson. Bwah!

Edited December 1, 2014 by SimoneS

[dohe]

It would take a lot of convincing for me to buy that Beth and Beth alone represents goodness to Daryl. I think there are and have been lots of people in Daryl's life that have represented good to him and have showed him the good in people.

Yes, when Daryl thought all those people were dead Beth helped pull him out of it, and I don't doubt he is sad, but I think that to say Beth is the one person who showed him people are good does a disservice to all those other people.

No, it is a fair assessment by that poster.  That poster is talking about what Beth represented to Darryl.  There is a difference between Darryl loving people (he clearly loves Carol and Rich as people) and seeing someone as being representative of an goodness and innocence in the world. 

 

Beth was a crucial character in what she represented for other characters and for female representation of the show period (only Carol may have been better written in terms of depicting the emotional scarring caused by this environment).  The hatred for the character (which is in all likelihood not shared outside the pile on mentality of the certain internet fandoms) tends to derive from two troubling but predictable points A) a teenage female character which is, in and of themselves, often seen as useless by certain viewers and B) that she did not fit the warrior role which is generally the one path taken in which certain viewers will see, on a genre show, as the teenage female being worthy of living.  Now clearly this is a deeper problem than one show and it is a tough one to discuss.  No one wants their hatred for a character analyzed and themselves presented as a lemming who buys into the culture that sees young women as useless on genre television unless they exhibit warrior tendencies.  However the immature rationalizations tend towards she is "boring", "useless", "annoying" or, at it's most offensive level, an attempt to rationalize the hatred by false implying the weakness of the actress at her work.  

 

 

Edited December 1, 2014 by dohe

[BrokenRemote]

I also don't have a problem with Carol walking out. People do get hit by cars every day and walk away from it. That car wasn't going 60 or anything. The doctor guessed that maybe she had internal injuries, but she may not have. She could have stayed asleep for the day or two she did due to a concussion.

On top of that, adrenaline is a hell of a drug.

[Irishmaple]

I rewatched too, despite having to get up early tomorrow morning, just so I could bask in the hotness that is Rick Grimes on a mission.  No, I'm not even slightly embarrassed about doing, thinking or saying that.

[English Teacher]

BrokenRemote: I am not trying to discredit any other character. I just finished watching the scenes from last season at the funeral home and this was my take from it.

Btw. Can anyone transcribe what CopBob was saying to Rick? I could not make out his words that entire time :-(

[Pete Martell]

Am I the only one getting bored?  I found myself doing other things and looking at the internet during the show, when I usually give it my undivided attention.  I think this whole half season has been paced oddly and just hasn't really worked for me.  Also I am really wondering if we are going to have a new 'big bad' (Governor, Gareth,  Dawn) that we build up to in the mid or season finale each season?  I just feel like everyone is going in circles and it's like we are just killing time until the next 'big death'.  I admit the DC idea did give us a new goal to look to, but even that is gone now.  At this point the only ones I really care about are Rick, Carol, Daryl, Carl, and Michonne.

 

I actually care about almost all the characters on the show. I think the show's doing a great job with that, for the most part. The problem is I'm struggling to care about most of the storylines, which in cases like the hospital arc, feel like recycled Themes and Ideas and Life Lessons (and pointless capitalization). I need the show to stop teaching this lesson over and over when they struggle to keep it consistent. 

[BrokenRemote]

No, it is a fair assessment by that poster. That poster is talking about what Beth represented to Darryl. There is a difference between Darryl loving people (he clearly loves Carol and Rich as people) and seeing someone as being representative of an goodness and innocence in the world.

Beth was a crucial character in what she represented for other characters and for female representation of the show period (only Carol may have been better written in terms of depicting the emotional scarring caused by this environment). The hatred for the character derived from two troubling points A) a teenage female character which is, in and of themselves, often seen as useless by certain viewers and B) that she did not fit the warrior role which is generally the one path taken in which certain viewers will see, on a genre show, as the teenage female being worthy of living. Now clearly this is a deeper problem than one show and it is a tough one to discuss. No one wants their hatred for a character analyzed and themselves presented as a lemming who buys into the culture that sees young women as useless on genre television unless they exhibit warrior tendencies. However the rationalizations tend towards she is "boring", "useless", "annoying" or, at it's most offensive level, an attempt to rationalize the hatred by false implying the weakness of the actress at her work.

No, it was an opinion by that poster. Just as your posts are also your opinion. You can say a thousand times that anyone who did not enjoy the performance or character of Beth had some kind of stereotypical hatred for young women. That is also your opinion, but not objective fact, as it is impossible for you to know what is in the hearts and minds of other people.

[Racj82]

Nah, this was a really boring episode

Whenever the show isn't working at a breakneck speed plotwise or having wall to wall action set pieces, the show is labeled boring. This show can never slow down or try for any type of character introspection. It gets labeled as boring every time.

[CletusMusashi]

I wish they'd been a little bit slower getting to the hospital. Then Carol could have kicked everyone's asses for them.

[SimoneS]

Damn, I forgot what a bad ass Michonne was taking out those walkers in the church. She loves Carl and Judith so much.

[BrokenRemote]

BrokenRemote: I am not trying to discredit any other character. I just finished watching the scenes from last season at the funeral home and this was my take from it.

Btw. Can anyone transcribe what CopBob was saying to Rick? I could not make out his words that entire time :-(

I definitely didn't feel you were discrediting anyone. I just feel that Rick, Carl, Andrea, Carol, Michonne have all showed Daryl that people are good. I know a lot of viewers felt that Daryl had some kind of epiphany after the couple days he spent with Beth. I just feel his change has been a more gradual process, and a factor of the good all of those people, Beth included, have shown him.

[The Mighty Peanut]

Rick needs a catchphrase

I'm Rick Grimes bitch

I always hear "kill 'em all...let God sort 'em out" in his voice. But I'm Rick Grimes bitch is more to the point.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Hi learning curve is steep, but I think Father Gabriel gets it now. 

 

 

Plus kudos, for him having enough sense not to go back under the Church.

 

Realizing he would've led the herd inside, turning the Church into a death trap.

[RazzleberryPie]

Michonne swinging that axe and then her katana with a fake toddler strapped to her back = TWD has officially jumped the shark for me.

[minamurray78]

Is Maggie now the sole survivor from the season two additions?

[Portia]

Were we supposed to see Beth's attack of Dawn as heroic and brave? Because to me it just seemed angry, impulsive, and ill-conceived. How did she know it would end with only Dawn and herself dead? It could have sparked a bloodbath.

Ask my family--I have had no use for Beth all along. I called her Li'l Useless for ages because it took me a year or more to learn her name. So yeah . . . finally.

[ParadoxLost]

Whenever the show isn't working at a breakneck speed plotwise or having wall to wall action set pieces, the show is labeled boring. This show can never slow down or try for any type of character introspection. It gets labeled as boring every time.

 

The thing is that the show is so much better at character development through action than talking.  Its a bit frustrating.  I know a lot more about Rick from this episode than anyone else despite him having a small fraction of the dialogue.

[HalcyonDays]

It's only Page 3 in this thread, people - don't be starting to attack other members over their opinions already, over Beth or whatever. Everyone will have a different opinions, which is WHY we encourage and promote respectful debate and accepting of others' opinion, however unique that may be.  Don't be a Dawn.... And don't make me be a Rick....

[SoWindsor]

I didn't like how we didn't get to see Carol wake up in the hospital. She just appeared in the wheelchair during the trade. They couldve had a great bonding scene with Carol and Beth with Carol waking up, etc.

This episode was really off and a major letdown.

[dohe]

No, it was an opinion by that poster. Just as your posts are also your opinion. You can say a thousand times that anyone who did not enjoy the performance or character of Beth had some kind of stereotypical hatred for young women. That is also your opinion, but not objective fact, as it is impossible for you to know what is in the hearts and minds of other people.

There is a significant difference between not finding a character enjoyable and hating a character to the level of wishing the character would die.  I find very few of the characters enjoyable to watch.  I very seldom cheer the death of a character and, when I do, I like to have a reason.

 

Anyways based on Halycon Days's warning, if you want to continue this discussion you can PM me. 

Edited December 1, 2014 by dohe

[GreyBunny]

Beth was Sophia 2.0 - Daryl and Carol have switched roles,