S02.E05: He Said, She Said

[Tara Ariano]

Tori confronts Dean with accusations made by his ex-wife; and they visit a spiritual guru in hopes of improving their marriage.

[BostonBlonde]

*BostonBlonde takes screen shot of Dean's letter to MJ & will spend 9 hours trying to read it.

#TeamMJ

Edited November 19, 2014 by BostonBlonde

[Armchair Critic]

I want to read it too. I am nosy like that, I read some old letters that my boyfriend had kept from his ex, it hurt but I couldn't help myself so I can't blame Tori for reading it.

 

Dean is just realizing he is a laughing stock in the acting world?

Edited November 19, 2014 by Armchair Critic

[kelm]

BostonBlonde will be transcribing said screenshot?

I cackled when Dippy Dean said he thinks he might be a laughing stock. Cackled and snorted.

Edited November 19, 2014 by kelm

[Armchair Critic]

Puhleeeez, they went to a guru. Dean's loud sobbing sounded fake.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Armchair Critic

[woodscommaelle]

Don't worry, Dean. No one ever thought you were a great actor.

[ExplainItAgain]

Puhleeeez, they went to a guru. Dean's loud sobbing sounded fake.

 

Soooo fake. And it just stopped suddenly.

[Armchair Critic]

When Dean put his head up his eyes weren't red... FAKE!

[kelm]

But Dean saw the guru's face morph... His breakdown must be real!!

That was a funny episode.

[JasminePhyllisia]

If anything the reality show gave Dean exposure.  Seriously, before the past few years and the much-publicized scandals, plenty of people knew who Tori was, but was Dean really that well-known outside of Canada?  I'm sure he can find some way to cash in on his notoriety.

[BostonBlonde]

He saw his face morph? Someone please help me roll this around in my brain...And the guru's reaction. K? Thanks.

[suomi]

^^^

 

Dean: Your skin was dark. And your beard.

Guru: I know.

[CodenameV]

Just have to say that everything that Mehran said up until agreeing with guru visit was on point. Tori could barely look at him while he was telling her like it is.

 

Dean meeting with his agent was sad. Either he couldn't be bothered to wash his hair, or he slathered it up with moose. Season 3 of HSH was on Monday and it showed him bathing his hair in product. 

[ChristmasJones]

I am starting to feel icky when I watch this. The feeling gets worse with each episode. :::shudder:::

[Lablover27]

*BostonBlonde takes screen shot of Dean's letter to MJ & will spend 9 hours trying to read it.

#TeamMJ

BostonBlonde - type fast!  Real quick....is this an old letter or new one since he's been married to skeletor?

 

I'm on the West Coast and watching the "Jack wants 90,242,278 people to his party."  When Dean was on the phone to Jack and MJ, Tori was standing behind him in the kitchen with her puss look and her arms crossed.  I thought to myself, hmmm, that's what my ex's new coo coo wife must do every time I call him (but I know she's there so I just fuck with her.  Hey, the snark I learn from here does not go unused.)  And then Dean hugged the adopted daughter MaryJo was holding in her arms when he walked out on her in Palm Springs "Look how big you've gotten".  Douchebag.  I say adopted has a "win"!

 

At least didn't have to hire a clown - Tori - do your pose!  Is she really wearing black wings?  MJ must have just looked at her like - a gift from baby Jesus. 

Edited November 19, 2014 by Lablover27

[wanderwoman]

Oh fuckity, fark. I'm only eleven minutes in and I already want to thump Skelatori (love the skelator ref by the way) for being such a ditz. I really wanna see the note, but I think it goes something like this...

My dearest Mary Jo,

Youre so beautiful and a fantastic mom and I'm honored that you are my wife. Together for evah!"

[kathybgd]

OMG! Only 20 min. in here and WOW! 'Skelatori'. is something else! Dean is all drama? And of course there's the kiss skel's ass saying how they never have seen her without her kids! This whole letter thing amazes me! They talk and act like this story has only been going on for about a month and she had no idea about all this Dean stuff! Why can't this nut job move ooooon!!!!

[jcbrown]

Is it possible that Tori thinks she is a master manipulator and intends this whole show to demonstrate that he is a total douchebag? When in fact it really is demonstrating that they are both complete dysfunctional tools who deserve each other?

[Maharincess]

Did the guru guy look just like John Astin in a long beard and turban to anybody else or just me?

It was so distracting to me.

This is only my second episode of this crap. I heard Mary Jo was going to be on and wanted to check her out.

Are they serious with this shit?! This is horrible.

From Dean saying that people thought he was a great actor to the sobbing, I was laughing so damn hard I thought it had to be a sitcom.

The sobbing. Funniest thing I've seen in a long, long time.

Even Gomez Adams looked like he couldn't believe this shit.

[JasminePhyllisia]

So during Dean's meltdown the white guru supposedly morphed into a dark-skinned guru which implied, what exactly--more wisdom? More credibility as a new-age guru? Sounds a little racist to me.

Edited November 19, 2014 by JasminePhyllisia

[kitkat68]

I figure all that sobbing was his way of auditioning for a Lifetime movie.

[lorikauai]

I'm only a few minutes in and I paused the TV to read

 

 

"My Dearest Mary Jo,

 

I love you more than....[obscured by Tori's hand]. I could not have made this journey without you. [obscured]...the man I am today. Your love and support is unwavering and invaluable. You never cease to amaze me. You get more and more beautiful and stronger and wiser from year to year. You truly are an amazing woman and wife. You are the love of my life.

 

Forever yours,

Dean oxoxox"

 

Gag. Be back soon when I'm done watching.

Edited November 19, 2014 by lorikauai

[Cosmocrush]

*BostonBlonde takes screen shot of Dean's letter to MJ & will spend 9 hours trying to read it.

Don't worry, the way Tori was telling everyone about it I wouldn't be surprised if she put online.  Or MJ will.  I thought it was a weird thing to bring to a meeting with Tori eight years and four kids later.  I'm thinking MJ hasn't really moved on as far as she thinks she has.  

 

Dean seemed amazingly self-aware for a few minutes tonight; he realized this show made him look like the dirtbag he is; he realized that now viewers know the real Dean, which is a dirtbag and that this was basically his punishment from Tori.  He seemed to understand that their other shows were cute and fun and this one is neither. 

 

Then he reverted to type and actually said he had never heard of a single actor working in both reality and scripted TV while sitting next to his wife who until recently was doing both.  Where does he think the money comes from.  

 

Waaaaah, Dean never made it big as an actor - it's a big big club.  Get over it and realize that your celebrity has allowed you a lifestyle bigger than any acting gig would have gotten you. 

[GaT]

Holy Shit. No wonder Dean left the show, real or fake, that was waaaay TMI. Even Tori's fake friends seem to be backing off from her, how can she want all this crap on TV?

[Jodio]

So during Dean's meltdown the white guru supposedly morphed into a dark-skinned guru which implied, what exactly--more wisdom? More credibility as a new-age guru? Sounds a little racist to me.

My first thought was "he totally just described Osama bin Laden." Is this a last ditch effort to claim the $25 million, enter the witness protection program, and finally escape Tori's insanity? Sorry bro, but that ship has sailed. You're stuck with the crazy bitch. And your brilliant acting resume exists only in your head, so the opportunities to escape your epic gold-digging fail are non-existent. And your ex-wife just publically exposed you for the sociopathic con artist that you are, so there's that.

 

Loved MJ's masterful seed-planting, as well. You could see the wheels turning in Tori's head when MJ, in her roundabout way, basically told Tori that Dean used the same game on Ms Goodhand that he used on Tori, and that perhaps the only reason he left MJ for Tori was for the Spelling money and Hollywood connections. Well played. Also liked that MJ, being a brilliant oracle, pretty much predicted all of Dean's behavior in the fateful pigtails/kitchen knife meeting eight years ago.

[lorikauai]

It was so funny watching Tori in her meeting with Mary Jo. 

T: "I feel so bad about dragging Dean into the public spotlight when he didn't want it"

MJ: "Oh I think he wanted it"

T: "Really??? Do you think he pursued me because of who I was????"

MJ: "I don't know..." 

T: "He couldn't have. Because I didn't get anything from my dad and my mom and I don't talk so... If he did it isn't working out for him....[long pause. wheels turning in Tori's head]"

 

Dean is right that this show is his punishment for cheating and he couldn't say no. His meeting with his agent was so awkward. Does he really think he was some big star before all of this reality stuff?

 

On a positive note it looked like she maybe ate a sandwich sometime between last week's episode and this week's.

 

On the previews it looks like she will be doing something about those implants soon. Thank goodness. They frighten me.

I wanted to add that part of me is hoping that Tori and Dean do get divorced and she chooses to face her own issues on future reality series. I wouldn't mind seeing a whole season of her decluttering her storage units and dealing with her hoarding issues. I was thinking she could call it InvenTORI. 

 

Sorry I couldn't help myself.

[RealityCowgirl]

Did the guru guy look just like John Astin in a long beard and turban to anybody else or just me?

It was so distracting to me.

This is only my second episode of this crap. I heard Mary Jo was going to be on and wanted to check her out.

Are they serious with this shit?! This is horrible.

From Dean saying that people thought he was a great actor to the sobbing, I was laughing so damn hard I thought it had to be a sitcom.

The sobbing. Funniest thing I've seen in a long, long time.

Even Gomez Adams looked like he couldn't believe this shit.

I'd vowed to not watch another second after last season. But I was drawn in tonight to see Mary Jo (made of awesome, by the way).

What I didn't expect was the greatest comedy television I've seen in 50+ years: the Guru Singalong visit. Funniest crap ever - especially in close proximity to greaseball referring to himself as a great actor. Never heard of him before season one of this mess, but even I know that's a load of bull.

[suomi]

Don't worry, the way Tori was telling everyone about it I wouldn't be surprised if she put online. Or MJ will. I thought it was a weird thing to bring to a meeting with Tori eight years and four kids later. I'm thinking MJ hasn't really moved on as far as she thinks she has.

 

I wouldn't say she kept it for a situation like we saw tonight ... well, OK, yes she did. But I am glad she did because it oh so obviously opened Tori's eyes to a reality she never would've otherwise even considered. The knowledge will eventually fade but I'm loving that it will bug the shit out of Tori for a good long while.  

Then he reverted to type and actually said he had never heard of a single actor working in both reality and scripted TV while sitting next to his wife who until recently was doing both.

 

OMG the back of Tori's head exploded when he said that and her eyes shot death rays at him. 

 

They're being exposed and out-played on Their Own Show, For All To See. We need to take an oath that if any of us are ever anywhere near Dean we will wrench those sobbing noises from our gut, in all their glory, for him to hear. Followed by a big snort and giggle as we sashay on by. And, two big birds in his direction just like he flipped to us, their audience. FFS.

[alexa]

I am glad to see that some people are being up front with Tori that though this is somehow comforting for her, it isn't appropriate to keep the cameras around long term.  It is clear that Dean needs to heal without them--he is right that we don't all need to see his journey take place on camera.  Though the scenes with the guru were something else, that is clearly something that should have happened off camera--he should be allowed to cry or whatever and not have his wife have cameras following him around.

 

I think more and more people are calling her on her crap--even the great Dr. Wexler occasionally.  I hope it is true that the series was cancelled as the media reported so that Tori will be forced to leave their drama away from all of the world to see.  I think at this point I have completely forgotten that Dean cheated as I think it is a bigger sin how badly she is treating him and handling the situation overall.  I see her with just as many problems or more, and she has no right to judge at this point.  

 

Plus I thought this run was only 4 or 5 episodes, so why is there a preview for next week?  I am confused.

[ghoulina]

Guru Singh for the win! Okay, the dude was a little hokey and that face-morphing stuff had me cackling, but he got more accomplished in 5 minutes than Dr. Wexler has in years. Don't hate me, but I actually got teary when Dean was sobbing. That is the most real I have ever seen him. I really am glad he's going to solo therapy, because he has a whole host of issues - some that have nothing to do with Tori, Mary Jo, his infidelities, etc. 

 

And I have to agree with Dean that the show isn't good for him. It's not good for any of them, the kids especially. But it really seems this show is Dean's punishment for cheating, and he's grudgingly going along with it to try and appease his wife. Even he said as much. But, damn, Tori totally pulled a "cut a bitch" face when he even danced around the idea of not doing the show. That girl does not know how to live without a spotlight on her. It's kind of sad really. But, succubus that she is, even her husband can't give her as much attention as she craves, so she needs camera crews and the world watching. 

 

I found it interesting that Dean feels like reality made him a "laughing stock", because he was such a "good actor" before. I'm not familiar with his work, but wasn't he mostly a Lifetime/Hallmark/voiceover kind of actor? 

 

But, back to punishing Dean, I actually had a real problem with how the conversation between MJ and Tori turned. I could understand Tori wanting to pick MJ's brain and swap stories....if they were separated. But she chose to stay with him and work through it, so it really doesn't seem cool to me for her to be comparing notes on Dean with his ex-wife. I can actually understand why he got upset. Maybe some of it's false, maybe a lot of it's true - who knows? But the point is, it gives off the feeling of the two scorned women being aligned against the evil cheater, and I don't think that's conducive to working on a marriage. 

 

But, honestly, I don't think Tori is super interested in fixing her marriage. I think she's mainly interested in whatever makes her look like a victim. Poor, put up, beleaguered Tori. She's just SO brave for opening up to Mary Jo. Gah. And the way she does her talking heads. Always pausing for dramatic effect, then looking up with those sad, cow eyes. She's pathetic. 

 

And she never seems to get/relay the whole story. Just like when she went to ALANON and told them everything EXCEPT that Dean had attempted suicide, so they're all "He hasn't reached his bottom yet". This time she came back to Dean from her meeting with Mary Jo, saying that MJ was totally blindsided by the affair and the split, because "everything was great". I didn't get that impression from MJ at all. I thought she was simply saying that the marriage wasn't AWFUL. That is was probably a normal marriage, where they had good days and bad days - fights and love letters. Tori always misses the point. 

[kimbelsp]

Why isn't anyone discussing THAT BELCH?????

[Neurochick]

I have a lot of issues with Tori, but I have a few with Mary Jo as well.

 

For one, I don't think she's over Dean.  If she were over him, why appear on camera?  Tori's husband has moved on, which was why, I believe he didn't want to be on camera.  He probably thought, "I don't want to be associated with this train wreck; I've moved on."  I just wonder why she would want to subject herself and her children to Tori's vanity project?

 

Full disclosure here:  Decades ago, I had a boyfriend and we were planning a life together; he left me for a woman with more money.  I was hurt and devastated, because all of our friends knew, though the other woman wasn't a nutjob like Tori, in fact she was a nice woman.  I was hurt for many years, until I found out that prior to their marriage, he had another "girlfriend" whom he was with the night before he got married, and continued to see after he got married.  I don't know if he's straightened himself up now since he's older but you never can tell, he could still be cheating.  I realized that I dodged a huge bullet and I hope one day Mary Jo realizes that Dean is a douchcebag cheater who would have kept cheating had they stayed married.  And she should leave he and Tori to themselves.  

[Cosmic Muffin]

Mary Jo was paid $10,000 to appear on the show. She has said that it went into Jack's college fund. I think she also knew that this was her chance to appear and show that she isn't crazy or bitter, to take control of the narrative that Tori and Dean have cast her in.

[jenh526]

He saw his face morph? Someone please help me roll this around in my brain...And the guru's reaction. K? Thanks.

 

Who could it be?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U1Jv5JoxaM

[jenh526]

Tori must be holding something over Dean's head to get him to put up with this humiliation. I don't buy that it's he's so in love with her and doesn't want to lose her (I'm thinking specifically of the first episode where he says he loves his life while his whole expression looks like a soul damned to hell). I still think it's money. Money from the show, but also perhaps part of the Spelling fortune. Maybe Tori and Dean won't get much but their kids will surely get something? Maybe that's why they need to keep pumping out more of them.

[Neurochick]

Mary Jo was paid $10,000 to appear on the show. She has said that it went into Jack's college fund. I think she also knew that this was her chance to appear and show that she isn't crazy or bitter, to take control of the narrative that Tori and Dean have cast her in.

 

I'm glad that she got paid for doing this train wreck but honestly, I can't imagine people thinking, after seeing "True Tori" that Mary Jo is the crazy, bitter one.  To me, Mary Jo is the lucky one because she's not stuck with Deano.

[ghoulina]

Why isn't anyone discussing THAT BELCH?????

 

I blocked it out. 

 

Seriously, Dean is in awe of their beautiful surroundings, and her contribution is some gas? Lovely. 

[chlban]

Soooo fake. And it just stopped suddenly.

So funny. I was flipping channels and apparently got the two gems. First was Deano saying he thought he was a laughing stock as an acotr. Wow, Ya think? That is some insightful stuff Deano.

Then I flipped again just as Dean was pretending to be sobbing and stuck around a couple of minutes marveling at how awful it was. That's it. I have done my time with this train wreck.  I turned back to Real Housewives of Beverly Hills and it actually felt like I was watching quality TV for a  couple of minutes. Then I realized it was just the quick transition from this garbage. Because truly, a blank screen is quality TV compared to this.

 

I am just curious. Surely those two morons can read? Do they not read what is said about them all over the internet? I never used to hate Tori. She was just an actress I remembered from an old show I never really watched whose daddy was the famous Producer. Now I so detest her that in spite of my sincere "like" of Jennie Garth (mainly because I thought she handled her divorce with class), I just could not watch even one episode of Mystery Girls. I even recorded it a couple of times and then realized I just couldn't because of Tori so I deleted it without ever watching.

 

Yes Dean, you are a laughing stock as an actor. You are a laughing stock as a humamn being. Yet as horrid as you are, you seem the more sympathetic partner in your

"fairy tale" romance.

 

However what is being done to the four innocent children caught in this nightmare is not funny at all. It's tragic and if you want to ever have a chance to be anything other than a pathetic loser, get out and take them with you. Then hire a really good Nanny or two and hope for the best. It has to be an improvement over what they are living through now.       

Edited November 19, 2014 by chlban

[Primetimer]

No, this ISN'T Tori reacting with amusement/nausea to Dean's latest shutdown crying jag. Unfortunately.

Read the story

[TheRealT]

I have a lot of issues with Tori, but I have a few with Mary Jo as well.

 

For one, I don't think she's over Dean.  If she were over him, why appear on camera?  Tori's husband has moved on, which was why, I believe he didn't want to be on camera.  He probably thought, "I don't want to be associated with this train wreck; I've moved on."  I just wonder why she would want to subject herself and her children to Tori's vanity project?

I think Mary Jo saw her appearance on the show as a way to publicly debunk the characterization of her that Tori and Dean have put out there and she really was masterful in doing that and making them both look even worse. T & D have already proven themselves to be assholes a million times over, but I can see why it was important to MJ to have her moment in their spotlight to get her side of the story out there and I can see why she brought "proof" in the form of the love note. Yes, she clearly was enjoying fucking with Tori and Dean, but why shouldn't she? She was very classy about it (way classier than they've been) and for the most part she really didn't have to say much, just drop a few pearls and make facial expressions that said, "Well, you can draw your own conclusions, Tori..." It was awesome. I don't think she's still hung up on Dean. I think she's still pissed about how they both treated her and she wants to repair some of the damage they did to her public image. I don't think there are many people out there who think MJ was the asshole in all the drama that went down, but I can see how it was hurtful to her and why she would want to show the world that she's not desperate, pathetic, and delusional.

 

Tori, however, is absolutely desperate, pathetic, and delusional. This show works really well as a comedy if you just pretend that the kids are actors. I loved the scene with Tori's friends where she was telling them about the meeting with MJ and how she didn't know whether to believe her or Dean and the friends were like, "What? You know Dean is a liar..." All of the scenes with Tori running around showing everyone the letter were hilarious as you could see the wheels turning in Tori's head as she realizes that the "fairy tale" has been built on lies all along and she has more in common with Emily Goodhand than she wants to believe. She thinks "the newspapers" said that Dean told Emily their marriage was on the rocks since Dean probably told her that he spent the entire encounter telling Emily how much he loved his wife and kids.

 

But, back to punishing Dean, I actually had a real problem with how the conversation between MJ and Tori turned. I could understand Tori wanting to pick MJ's brain and swap stories....if they were separated. But she chose to stay with him and work through it, so it really doesn't seem cool to me for her to be comparing notes on Dean with his ex-wife. I can actually understand why he got upset. Maybe some of it's false, maybe a lot of it's true - who knows? But the point is, it gives off the feeling of the two scorned women being aligned against the evil cheater, and I don't think that's conducive to working on a marriage.

Absolutely. As much as I enjoyed the MJ meeting and its aftermath, it's really hard to understand how Tori thought that would help her marriage. What could MJ have possibly said that would make things better? I can't figure out what Tori wants at this point, besides opportunities to revel in her drama. What "answers" is she looking for? In the first season, I thought the big question was whether she should take Dean back or not. As I understood it, she decided to take him back and move forward with their marriage. Great. Now this season her big dilemmas seem to be "How can I change Dean into the man I want him to be?" and "How many ways can I express how upset I am that DEAN CHEATED ON ME?" All she seems to talk to her friends about is what an asshole Dean is, every therapy session is about what Dean is doing wrong, nothing he does makes her happy, and she brings up the cheating and how unstable and needy he is every single day. Which part of that is "moving forward" or "trying to repair the marriage"? Also, it becomes more and more glaring how her boatload of issues is completely off-limits as they "work through their problems," which makes all of the "work" a joke. You can see Dean constantly biting his tongue to keep from saying something about that as she lays into him for whatever stupid thing. I wonder what their off-camera conversations about the show are like. Tori works really hard to pretend that what we see on TV is the reality, but that's obviously not true. She seems to passive-aggressively "blurt out" things about Dean that she knows he doesn't want on camera all the time, but he doesn't do that much (unless they edit it out).

 

It's disgusting how they exploit their kids for the show. I assume that the scene with Finn was fake because what was supposedly happening is that he was in bed for the night, but he was sick so Tori had to bring him into her and Dean's bed. So normal! So relatable to the moms of young kids out there! Only what she actually did was bring him into a room with camera lights in addition to the regular lights to have him play with toys while a film crew filmed them. I hope it was shot at 2PM or whenever and not during his real bedtime. Surely even Tori wouldn't actually drag her toddler out of bed to film a scene for her reality show, right?

Edited November 19, 2014 by TheRealT

[HeyNow]

Just a small question.  Dean mentioned that he lost his mom..... in 6th grade, when he was 15.......Huh?  The 15 year olds I know are freshmen in high school!

[RealityCowgirl]

Just a small question. Dean mentioned that he lost his mom..... in 6th grade, when he was 15.......Huh? The 15 year olds I know are freshmen in high school!

The episode was filled with so much unintentional comedy and WTF moments I forgot about that one. ;)

Edited November 19, 2014 by RealityCowgirl

[BostonBlonde]

Dean: Your skin was dark. And your beard.

Guru: I know.

So during Dean's meltdown the white guru supposedly morphed into a dark-skinned guru which implied, what exactly--more wisdom? More credibility as a new-age guru?

I'm still so confused. What the hell did he mean his face morphed? Into what? And more importantly the guru said: "Yes, I know. I know." THE HELL? Does he know his face morphs? Has this happened before? I can't carry on with life until this is solved. Lol.

And yes,Deano....you're a regular DeNiro.

Edited November 19, 2014 by BostonBlonde

[jennylauren123]

HeyNow, I noticed the same thing. I mean, I graduated at 17 and was 11 in 6th grade. What was 15-year-old Dean doing in 6th grade with all of the 11- and 12-year-olds?

 

When Finn joined Tori and Dean, he was waving his sippy cup around. A normal parent might have thought he was thirsty and needed a refill. A normal parent also might have spoken to him in soft tones, asked him how he was feeling, said she is sorry that he's not feeling better, and would have put him in a cozy blanket and cuddled with him. In other words, focus on him.

 

These two? Not a chance. They ignored Finn and went about their usual nursing of wounds, attention-getting, and navel gazing.

Edited November 19, 2014 by jennylauren123

[RealityCowgirl]

I kept thinking the guru's "wisdom" sounded like someone spent waaaaaaaay too much time in the "hokey wall plaque" section at the local Hallmark store.

And there sat those two wide-eyed, gape-mouthed idiots, nodding as if it was a personal audience with God Himself.

As I said: comedy gold.

[psychoticstate]

I only saw the meeting with Mary Jo last night (will watch the entire epi tonight) but I think Tori's reasoning for meeting Mary Jo is to get some type of validation that Tori is different.  She doesn't want to believe that Deano cheated on her for the same reason he cheated on MJ.  Because he could.  Because he's a douche.  Because he's unhappy.  Because he's looking for something better. 

 

It seems to me that his marriage with MJ was very similar to his marriage to Tori, but without the four kids.  He may not have been truly happy but apparently he wasn't telling MJ that and he was writing her love notes.  Same MO. 

 

I loathe to side with Dean on anything but I do agree with him being upset that MJ and Tori were talking about him.  Not cool.  If Tori wants to leave him, go ahead and talk smack about him and throw him under the bus.  But if you're truly trying to make your marriage work, you don't discuss problems with your husband with his ex-wife. 

 

Sometimes I think Tori is perpetually in high school with the gossiping and demanding of the grand gestures of love.

 

I would like MJ's take on the "awesome life" that Deano apparently gave her.

[mrsh]

What can I say about this train wreck that hasn't already been said...Tori is just so unlikeable, I love how she still doesn't understand why Mary Jo told her to own what she did. Tori is so lacking self awareness that its baffling. As for Dean, his tantrum about Mary Jo just proves what douchecanoe he truly is. I'm ashamed to say, my ex husband was just like Dean and not just by being a fat, bloated unemployed liar, but anytime he got called out by anyone he would throw a fit just like Dean did. He would only do it when he knew what you were saying was true.

I would feel sorry for Skeletori but she's just so dumb that I think those two idiots deserve each other.

[lizzy07]

I love how Tori seemed shocked that MJ wasn't in fear that Dean would cheat during their entire marriage. MJ never worried about it. Tori was clearly surprised because it would appear she's known (and feared) Dean would cheat all along. What kind of marriage is that? I don't see them lasting much longer.

[Cosmocrush]

Just a small question.  Dean mentioned that he lost his mom..... in 6th grade, when he was 15.......Huh?  The 15 year olds I know are freshmen in high school!

Ha!  I caught that too and then I just kept picturing Dean as this man-sized 6th grader.  

 

Tori must be holding something over Dean's head to get him to put up with this humiliation.

Four small children?   

 

Still, Dean is a better manipulator than I would have given him credit for; he is the one that publicly humiliated his wife by cheating on her and yet by the end of last night's episode he was the big victim with Tori comforting him while he sobbed.  The Guru telling Tori what an amazing man Dean is and Tori nodding in agreement was the cherry on top.  Marriages can and do survive infidelity but I'm sure the odds go way down when both parties are competing to be the bigger victim.  Tori needs to decide if she wants to save her marriage or continue to punish her husband because I don't think she can do both. 

 

I've always like Mehran and it seems he is the only one to give it to Tori straight up.   In S2/Ep 1 she kept talking about the wonderful time the whole family had during a month in Malibu and how good their relationship was then.  Uh Tori, that's because there weren't any cameras.  Tori, listen to your oldest and most true friend.  He seems like he has his shit together.

[TheRealT]

I thought that maybe 15-in-6th-grade was a Canadian thing, like their grade system is different? Any Canadians in the house?

 

 

Sometimes I think Tori is perpetually in high school with the gossiping and demanding of the grand gestures of love.

Watching this episode I was thinking how high school it all is. Tori runs around to tell all her friends everything about her relationship and is always having these dramatic "What should I do?" conversations like a teenager who can't pick out a lipstick without getting advice from 20 people. She also has very teenagerish notions about love and relationships that are very odd for a twice-married mother of 4 in her 40's. I would think that her life experiences would have taught her that "Love" is not some mystical thing that just happens and automatically creates fairy tales.

 

Another thing I noticed is that she and Dean have a very competitive communication style. They are both very dramatic and they don't talk like normal people, where one expresses a thought, the other responds, and so on. Instead, they try to one up each other and gain control of the "scene." It's like they feel like they have to invalidate each other's feelings in order to "win" and be the "star," the one who's feeling the most pain, who's right, whatever. Maybe the cameras contribute to that dynamic. There's a lot of interesting subtext on this show around how they each try to use the cameras/the show to accomplish their own goals- for Tori, to punish Dean, to build a brand she can somehow capitalize on, to paint herself as a victim, etc.; for Dean, to show that he's not as much of a douche as people think, to audition for acting jobs. Mary Jo got in on it in these episodes with her agendas to publicize her book and refute the negative things T & D have said about her.