S08.E12: Death In Heaven

[Chip]

 

With Cybermen on the streets of London, old friends unite against old enemies and the Doctor takes to the air in a startling new role. As the Doctor faces his greatest challenge, sacrifices must be made before the day is won.

 

[Llywela]

Well, that was horrifically awful. Can I pretend it never happened?

[Eozostrodon]

I agree. Missy was the best part - can't wait to see the character again, whether it's as Missy or the Master. Though I hope it's as Missy. Tie between Danny&Clara, the Doctor and Clara lying to each other, and Missy's 'a wizard did it' magic bracelet for worst.I did enjoy hearing the S1 Cybermen music again.

 

I'm cheering that Danny is finally gone (and really, he doesn't actually have much reason to be angry at the Doctor - the Doctor wasn't involved in his death and Missy's scheme wasn't really his fault -- 'how dare you put trying to save all of humanity over my and Clara's unbelievably dysfunctional relationship??') I can buy love saving the day sometimes but not when it's two awful people who are just dating who have done nothing but lie and be emotionally abusive to each other. And passing the buck to Danny to avoid the Doctor ordering the human-cyber army to commit mass suicide. And really, giving Clara some random Middle Eastern kid who doesn't speak English, doesn't have any paperwork, whose parents are probably dead - and even if they're not they're hardly going to understand how the son who died years ago is back but still a child? Is that really better than her getting the apparent love of her life back?

 

Actually it would have been a perfectly decent RTD-style episode if they'd cut all the Clara/Danny stuff and just made it the Master coming up with a wacky Cyberman scheme which somehow the Doctor and UNIT foil. It reminded me of Sontaran Experiment/Poison Sky a lot.

[alrightokay]

I know some people will hate it, but I loved it.  Loved it deeply.  Yes, it was emotionally manipulative, but I fell for all of it.  Especially the Doctor and Clara's final scene, intercut with the Doctor's reaction to what he finds at the coordinates he was given.  That was devastating.   I even felt for Missy at the end, and I hope she comes back somehow.  I'm glad that all of the "soldier"/"good man" discussion from this series got addressed in this episode; again, as maudlin as Danny's ending was, it wrapped up his storyline well.  And I'm glad that all of the "Clara = the Doctor" hints were laid to rest.  Twelve IS the Doctor and, as he said, he's learning.  This whole series was about Twelve settling into his own skin but also about the Doctor being humbled in ways he's never been before.  After all of the "Lonely God" and "Defender of Trenzalore" mightiness of Ten and Eleven, he's learning that he can be an "idiot" at times (he's used that word a lot this series, most recently, about himself).  That doesn't mean we should think less of him; it means that HE shouldn't think so highly of himself, and that's a good development, I think.  

 

And I've said this so many times, but I love Capaldi so much.  He's just wonderful. 

[elle]

Well, that was horrifically awful. Can I pretend it never happened?

Sure!  That is how I have be coping ever since the Christmas special all the way through to this episode.

 

Sad to see it go they way they choose :0(

[childeroland]

When the brig shot her, she went out in a blue blaze instead of red, the same color as the light around her when she teleported off the airplane. Maybe that means she teleported before the weapon could disintegrate her.

[Lokiberry]

Does anyone know if this is it for Clara? If she's coming back I might just do something I've never done with Doctor Who before, old series or new (not even with Mel), and that's skip it . I can't take any more of her. I just can't.

[ottoDbusdriver]

I'm kind of pissed that Missy killed Osgood.  What the hell ?

 

On the plus side, Missy was at least entertaining throughout the episode -- never a dull moment when she was on the screen.

 

Did the Brigadier-Cyberman fly off and kill himself as well ?  How did he not have to obey the self-destruct order sent by Danny ?

 

The whole nonsense at the end with the boy that Danny killed in Afghanistan was just stupid (according to the credits he doesn't even have a name, he's listed simply as 'boy'). Why did it take Danny two weeks to figure out how to contact Clara ?

 

What happened to the Gallifreyan hard drive in the Nethersphere -- and what happened to the Nethersphere itself ?  Is it still there ?

 

So, does Col. Orson Pink still exist anymore since Danny's really dead now ?  Or is he going to simply fade from existence ?

 

Nick Frost looked great made up as Santa.

[supposebly]

Ok, just like the rest of the season. Boring, pointless and I have no idea what happened and can't be bothered to think about it.

 

If the idea was to feel bad about Danny, well, I didn't.

 

The cybermen in the alternate universe were truly horrific because they put real live people into those suits. With these, I just couldn't care. Kill them, they are already dead.

 

I liked Missy. She was funny and crazy. Is the next one the Christmas episode? There were only 12? For the first time since I started watching Who, I don't care. I'm just glad it's over.

 

What was the point of Clara and the Doctor lying to each other? What was the point of this whole season, really.

 

For the Doctor to realize who he is? That really shouldn't take that long. And yes, I did notice that Danny didn't move around when Missy made them wave their arms around so I knew he would be the fly in the ointment of the plan. I really would like the Doctor to be smarter than me. Otherwise, what's the point of him.

[NotBothered]

Did they ever answer why Missy manipulated things to get Clara and the Doctor together?  I hated this episode so much I couldn't even bring myself to rewind that section.

 

I just don't care what happens to anyone anymore.  I have zero emotional connection to the Doctor, to Clara, or to Danny.  And if I don't care what's happening to any of the characters I'm not going to be able to ignore how dumb the plot is.

[Kalliste]

When the brig shot her, she went out in a blue blaze instead of red, the same color as the light around her when she teleported off the airplane. Maybe that means she teleported before the weapon could disintegrate her.

I was thinking the same, seems like she teleported rather than was killed.

 

This episode left so many question.. I feel like it's a trick and Clara will be back. It seems like a weird ending where they just lie to each other and walk away.. and what the hell is Clara going to do with that kid? Will he even be mentioned again or was that just some crappy writing to explain how Danny couldn't come back so that the Doctor could think he did so he could pretend he's ok and leave?

 

Blah.. this season :(

[shapeshifter]

Is this line original to this episode's script, or is it known from somewhere else?

Never trust a hug; it's just a way to hide your face.

In trying to find the answer (I did not) I found this review of the episode that explained the parts I was confused about: http://slouching.tv/2014/11/08/doctor-who-s8-ep12-death-in-heaven/ Edited November 9, 2014 by shapeshifter

[ottoDbusdriver]

In trying to find the answer (I did not) I found this review of the episode that explained the parts I was confused about: http://slouching.tv/...eath-in-heaven/

 

 

From that article:

 

"I’m going to start this review by noting what I hope was obvious to every viewer about the ending of the main story. This finale was Steven Moffat‘s tribute to the brave soldiers who fought in World War I. A century on from 1914, the year in which the Great War started, and in an episode airing the day before Remembrance Sunday, we have an army of soldiers saving Earth from its darkest hour. The timing of this season’s finale has been 100% deliberate."

 

 

I did not get that at all. So, no, it wasn't obvious. Particularly from the amount of moaning and disdain all season by Danny about The Doctor/army officers and their attitudes.

[foreverevolving]

I kind of grew to like Missy.. she made a nice Master. wackadoodle as hell. she was the funnest thing in the finale. As much as i hated the master being back i hated even more that they brought her back for so little. if she made it cool, if not.. it's a shame, the actress did a great job capturing who the master is.

Can we give Missy her own show? I would totally watch it!

 

Osgood!! I liked her.

 

The brigadier saving Kate was a nice tribute. so does the doctor saluting him.

 

So they never went into the "why that face" thing they said they'll do, regarding Capaldi and his history on Dr. who. maybe next season or christmas special?

 

I'm gonna fanwank that Clara is pregnant but just doesn't know it yet. and that that is how that everything that happened with Pink jr. jr. jr. happened.

 

 

not truly excited about the christmas episode. but whatever. I love Capaldi But, by god, this season killed me.

I was never a serious fan, and this season reminded why i always stayed away until last year. I actually missed Rose a bit (and I freakin hate Rose!)

FYI with all those cybermen and what not going around how the hell does Donna brain not explode every single time?

Edited November 9, 2014 by foreverevolving

[MarquisDeCarabas]

Someone asked a very disturbing question, would Amy and Rory have become Cybermen? 

[elle]

From that article:

 

"I’m going to start this review by noting what I hope was obvious to every viewer about the ending of the main story. This finale was Steven Moffat‘s tribute to the brave soldiers who fought in World War I. A century on from 1914, the year in which the Great War started, and in an episode airing the day before Remembrance Sunday, we have an army of soldiers saving Earth from its darkest hour. The timing of this season’s finale has been 100% deliberate."

 

 

I did not get that at all. So, no, it wasn't obvious. Particularly from the amount of moaning and disdain all season by Danny about The Doctor/army officers and their attitudes.

This makes me incredibly sad.  He really thought he was writing a tribute within the story?  "The Family of Blood" two parter by Paul Cornell did more to remind one of and honor all those boys that would be lost in that awful war.

[NCChic]

Is this line original to this episode's script, or is it known from somewhere else?In trying to find the answer (I did not) I found this review of the episode that explained the parts I was confused about: http://slouching.tv/2014/11/08/doctor-who-s8-ep12-death-in-heaven/

It aired towards the end, when The Doctor & Clara were saying their goodbyes.

Speaking of goodbyes, Clara chose now to say that she felt special traveling with him. You see end to hate every moment with him and bossed him a around as if he were a four year old. I just couldn't get over her characterization this season.

And memo to Stevem Moffat: Stop with the bashing of America. We get it. We also helped make you big over here with Doctor Who and Sherlock. Don't bite the hand that feeds you, Sir.

I think I'd rather watch any season again other than this one.

[Lantern7]

Well, that sort of sucked. What saved the episode? Peter Capaldi and Michelle Gomez. Put two other people in their positions, things might go askew.

 

Hi, Santa. Or is it Father Christmas? Can you get a new showrunner for the holiday season? And a shiny new companion who doesn't give me agita? Just put them under the tree, I won't complain. Seriously, my thought on seeing Nick Frost as Santa was basically: "Oh, Doctor Who. I can't stay mad at you." Bringing back Osgoode (Osgood?) would be a good start. Poor thing was terrified getting killed by Missy.

 

BTW . . . yes to Missy, no to the Doctor becoming female, at least right this moment. Seriously, Capaldi has found his niche as the Doctor, and he's had to deal with subpar material. Under a more skilled showrunner, he could flourish for years as the Doctor.

[starri]

 

I'm kind of pissed that Missy killed Osgood.  What the hell ?

I'm going to hope that Missy killed the Zygon copy, not the original.  If not, that's still what happened.

 

If they hadn't found a way (and such a classy one, to boot) to save Kate, I don't think I would have watched the show again.

[mustbekarma]

This show always takes me to my happy place. It's so uplifting watching Doctor Who. Lying, angst, death-those themes are so heartwarming.

 

....blows raspberries....

 

Even Santa Claus couldn't save this episode for me, let alone this season.

 

Although the only nice thing I can say about this episode is that Capaldi's pretty good when the Doctor is not being a dick. The only thing I don't get is if the Doctor is so happy about Gallifrey being back, why the hell was he beating up the Tardis?

[ketose]

The Master won. Over the course of a year or so, he ruined Doctor Who. Not the person, mind you, but the show. I can only assume this was some meta plan from Moffat to show us that we hate Clara because the Master wanted us to hate Clara.

 

Seriously, the best 5 minutes of this series was when Clara unlatched her suckers from the Doctor. I may need a year break just to get the taste out of my mouth.

[Suzysite]

 

The only thing I don't get is if the Doctor is so happy about Gallifrey being back, why the hell was he beating up the Tardis?

Because it wasn't back.  Missy lied.

[AD35]

The nice touches that I like were the portrait of the Brigadier and the Chaplet funeral home (as in Dodo Chaplet, a former companion of the Doctor).  I'm still a bit disappointed at Missy not being the Rani or some other time lord with a past tie to the Doctor but I wouldn't mind a future appearance by her.  That's more than I can say about Clara for now. 

[Suzysite]

I'm obviously in the minority, but I like Clara.  I didn't, however, like this season. At all.  It made me sad to watch and something just felt missing. Every week.

[mustbekarma]

The only thing I don't get is if the Doctor is so happy about Gallifrey being back, why the hell was he beating up the Tardis?

 

Because it wasn't back.  Missy lied.

 

That makes sense. I was trying not to nod off during this episode, and my brain wasn't firing on all cylinders.

[benteen]

This makes me incredibly sad.  He really thought he was writing a tribute within the story?  "The Family of Blood" two parter by Paul Cornell did more to remind one of and honor all those boys that would be lost in that awful war.

 

A tribute to the soldiers, really?  All the Doctor did all year was show a DISGUSTING amount of disdain for soldiers for other reason than to create a contrived conflict with Danny.

 

I'm mixed on the whole thing.  Some of it was good and some of it wasn't so good.  Osgood's death put me in a FOUL mood.  She dies and Clara lives...just doesn't seem fair.  This episode showed why the Doctor and Clara need to be separated from each other.  They bring out the very worst in one another.

 

Peter Capaldi was excellent.  I wasn't feeling Missy but thought her scenes at the end with the Doctor were really good.

 

I have to admit, the reveal that that had been the Brigadier got my teary-eyed.  That was a hell of a scene.

Edited November 9, 2014 by benteen

[Kalliste]

 

I'm gonna fanwank that Clara is pregnant but just doesn't know it yet. and that that is how that everything that happened with Pink jr. jr. jr. happened.

 

I was thinking the same thing, does that mean we will be seeing more of Clara so we find that out though? I really feel like Clara walking away is a trick and at Christmas (or next season) she'll be there and Moffatt will be saying "Surprise! I tricked you, she's back!"

[benteen]

That makes sense. I was trying not to nod off during this episode, and my brain wasn't firing on all cylinders.

 

Don't feel too bad, you weren't the only one.

[tankgirl73]

So did those coordinate include the 'dimension'?  Because I'm willing to bet that Gallifrey is at the same spot in space it always has been, just a different dimension.  In which case, she didn't lie at all.  She said it is in another dimension, but it's not lost.

 

I thought this was a really fun episode, and it did a great job of addressing all the complaints from last week.  "Where is UNIT?"  There it is.  "How did Missy get off Gallifrey" -- well they didn't fully answer it (she won't tell) but they acknowledged the issue.  "Wouldn't she know where Gallifrey is then?" Well yes, but she's not telling and she's enjoying it.  

 

What happened to the Gallifreyan hard drive in the Nethersphere -- and what happened to the Nethersphere itself ?  Is it still there ?

 

 

 

It's the other way around -- the Nethersphere is what is in the hard drive.  It's not "real".  It's a virtual reality for the harvested minds of the dead.  Now, the question of what happened to it -- that's still legitimate.  Did they ALL get transferred or were some left?  Is the actual object still there, even if the program isn't running anymore?  And how much organic matter did the cyber-seeds need anyway?  How rotted could the original corpse be before it couldn't be converted/upgraded?  

 

Nick Frost.  As Santa Claus.  That's like getting someone named Peter Hare to play the Easter Bunny.  Or Bugs Cottontail.

 

I think Osgood would have been a very annoying companion but I was surprised they offed her so easily.  :(

 

Bananas.  

[companionenvy]

Like the season as a whole, my assessment of the finale is "a lot of shaky bits, but overall quite effective." 

 

First, the bad:

- The flying cybermen were just silly, almost embarrassingly so, IMO. 

 

- The Doctor being declared President of Earth - like, what? As far as we know, most Earth governments shouldn't even know about the Doctor. Even if we figure UNIT is acting unilaterally here, what good is a "President" whose authority is not recognized? And why on Earth did they have to tranquilize him first anyway - he was clearly willing to help already. They should have just put him in command of UNIT, and left it at that.

 

- Missy's explanation for bringing Clara and the Doctor together. So, because his 28 year old human companion du jour is a little bit bossy, the Doctor is, in his third millennium, finally moved to figure out whether or not there is an afterlife from which someone can be saved? This complaint is actually a carry-over from last episode, I suppose, although I was willing to wait at the time to see if we would get a better explanation. But no, the Doctor, who apparently has never considered seeking out any of his own lost loved ones, decides now it is time to do so because Clara lost her boyfriend. And we're supposed to believe that he's doing it because he is somehow under her controlling sway, which I suppose is why it wasn't an option any of the times that Rory died. Or when he thought Rose was dead, or Jenny.

 

- Speaking of Jenny, how does Clara know about her?

 

- I think Moffat took things too far with the "all the dead are now cybermen" thing, especially given that he was going to create an opening for certain particularly strong-willed cybermen to retain some aspect of personality. It just compounds the silliness, if you think about it for more than about thirty seconds and imagine things like Cyber-George Washington or, as the review linked above mentioned, Cyber- Amy and Rory.

 

Now, the good:

 

- As a general assessment, I can forgive a whole lot if something is emotionally resonant to me, and this was. 

 

- All of my initial concerns about Capaldi's Doctor are gone. This was absolutely the Doctor that has been on our screens for fifty years.

 

- Missy! She was wonderful - all of John Simm's campy menace, but also a nice undertone of real desperation and vulnerability. Her last scene, in particular, was brilliantly acted. I hope Gomez returns.

 

- The episode was willing to permit loss without spilling over into tragedy porn. I'm really glad that the show let Danny stay dead in the end, and while I was terribly sad about the death of the fantastic UNIT scientist (not that I didn't see it coming), again, it made the stakes real. On the other hand, I was VERY upset with the show when I thought the Brig's daughter was dead, because given the history, that would have been too much. So, I liked the "cheat" there. In addition, while Danny stayed dead, he and Clara got some closure, and Danny himself got some agency. I am very afraid, though, that the show is going to reverse it later; the tag scene suggested that possibility. 

 

- The double-lie of the final scene before the closing credits. I know a lot of people don't like Clara, but what I've been impressed with the latter half of this season is the way Moffat has written a companion who is in some ways as flawed as the Doctor. The companions since Saint Rose haven't been totally deified, but they've all been fairly uncomplicated in their goodness and integrity. At least for me, however, Clara has become more sympathetic and compelling as she's acquired some real, ugly flaws.

 

-Danny's choice to save the child. I still think Danny could have done with better development earlier in the season, but his guilt has been well enough established that the scene worked for me.

 

- Danny owning his identity as a soldier, and the Doctor disowning his as a general. What I love about it is that it both vindicates and challenges the Doctor at the same time. On one hand, it opposes the Doctor's disdain for soldiers, on the other, it contradicts Danny's suspicion of the Doctor as an unfeeling officer. The Doctor successfully resists the Master's attempt to frame him as - or turn him into - a megalomaniac by his delightfully unassuming characterization of his own role as he resigns authority to Danny, but also rejects a responsibility that maybe should be his in refusing to take action himself.

 

- Although then the Doctor is willing to take action, as I genuinely believe he would have killed the Master to save Clara from doing it. And then how lovely that the Brigadier in turn saves the Doctor from having to do it. The Doctor salutes the Brigadier, finally, but in a way, the Brigadier has saluted the Doctor too in honoring the very impulse toward mercy that once served as a bone of contention between them. And yes, there was something very unsettling about cyber!Brig, but it stayed just on the right side of the line for me. 

 

I'm really interested to read other's thoughts. 

[elle]

Someone asked a very disturbing question, would Amy and Rory have become Cybermen? 

No.

 

The Doctor's former friend and UNIT founder Brigadier Sir Alistair Gordon Lethbridge-Stewart, aka the Brigadier, was among those raised from the dead and transformed into a Cyberman by the Doctor’s arch-enemy Missy

No one is off limits, Moffet you *%^&*#!  This makes me crazy mad!

 

The cybermen in the alternate universe were truly horrific because they put real live people into those suits. With these, I just couldn't care. Kill them, they are already dead.

The Cybermen until this episode were truly horrific in every universe.  I remember being freaked out by seeing people with Bluetooth ear pieces after the Cybermen were reintroduced. 

 

And now they are just like every other villain from a series with a long history, a little less scary, a little less menacing, a lot more sad.

 

(Dear Santa: Can you please arrange for Bobby Ewing to make a a guest appearance to let me know that this past season has been just a dream, a really bad dream?  Thank you.)

Edited November 9, 2014 by elle

[benteen]

Here's hoping that it was really Zygon Osgood who was killed.  Those two guards however...how the hell didn't they notice Missy slipping her cuffs and Osgood holding her handcuffs?

Edited November 9, 2014 by benteen

[foreverevolving]

@elle i agree. out of all the monsters of the week the cybermen were always the scariest of them all simply for the packed meaning they carry in them- once humans (or another alien race) and now unfeeling machines.. far scarier than the created with hatred Daleks.

Tonight i wasn't afraid I was sighing alot, although the only thing that saved them was Danny's struggle, showing the true nature of the difference between humans and cybermen.

[Endeavour]

They broke Doctor Who! If it weren't for Capaldi, who is fantastic, I'd be out. Moffat needs to go.

[Toaster Strudel]

This episode was more than an hour?  I missed the ending.

[alias1]

Now, the good:

 

- As a general assessment, I can forgive a whole lot if something is emotionally resonant to me, and this was. 

 

- All of my initial concerns about Capaldi's Doctor are gone. This was absolutely the Doctor that has been on our screens for fifty years.

 

- Missy! She was wonderful - all of John Simm's campy menace, but also a nice undertone of real desperation and vulnerability. Her last scene, in particular, was brilliantly acted. I hope Gomez returns.

 

- The episode was willing to permit loss without spilling over into tragedy porn. I'm really glad that the show let Danny stay dead in the end, and while I was terribly sad about the death of the fantastic UNIT scientist (not that I didn't see it coming), again, it made the stakes real. On the other hand, I was VERY upset with the show when I thought the Brig's daughter was dead, because given the history, that would have been too much. So, I liked the "cheat" there. In addition, while Danny stayed dead, he and Clara got some closure, and Danny himself got some agency. I am very afraid, though, that the show is going to reverse it later; the tag scene suggested that possibility. 

 

- The double-lie of the final scene before the closing credits. I know a lot of people don't like Clara, but what I've been impressed with the latter half of this season is the way Moffat has written a companion who is in some ways as flawed as the Doctor. The companions since Saint Rose haven't been totally deified, but they've all been fairly uncomplicated in their goodness and integrity. At least for me, however, Clara has become more sympathetic and compelling as she's acquired some real, ugly flaws.

 

-Danny's choice to save the child. I still think Danny could have done with better development earlier in the season, but his guilt has been well enough established that the scene worked for me.

 

- Danny owning his identity as a soldier, and the Doctor disowning his as a general. What I love about it is that it both vindicates and challenges the Doctor at the same time. On one hand, it opposes the Doctor's disdain for soldiers, on the other, it contradicts Danny's suspicion of the Doctor as an unfeeling officer. The Doctor successfully resists the Master's attempt to frame him as - or turn him into - a megalomaniac by his delightfully unassuming characterization of his own role as he resigns authority to Danny, but also rejects a responsibility that maybe should be his in refusing to take action himself.

 

- Although then the Doctor is willing to take action, as I genuinely believe he would have killed the Master to save Clara from doing it. And then how lovely that the Brigadier in turn saves the Doctor from having to do it. The Doctor salutes the Brigadier, finally, but in a way, the Brigadier has saluted the Doctor too in honoring the very impulse toward mercy that once served as a bone of contention between them. And yes, there was something very unsettling about cyber!Brig, but it stayed just on the right side of the line for me. 

 

 

I liked the episode and this post does a wonderful job of describing the good.  I thought the end, with Clara and the Doctor both lying to each other, was heartbreaking.  Moffat has not been able to wring that much emotion out of me, ever.  Missy was wonderfully batty (bananas).  Loved her scenes with Capaldi.  I think Jenna Coleman's acting is amazing.  I loved her reciting all the facts about the Doctor, even if she really couldn't have known about Jenny.  The only thing I didn't like is Danny leaving that kid for Clara.  That made no sense to me. 

[Ochan35]

Hello,

I'm still new to this board but I wanted to give my thoughts on this finale and series 8 overall.

 

I feel in terms of modern day Doctor Who this series finale lacked the urgency and epic-ness of the previous series finales. There were a lot of good concepts but they didn't seem to be executed to a good effect. A lot of it had to do with the characterization of Clara and Danny and their relationship being very poorly developed throughout the season. While they initially had a good set up in the early episodes somewhere after Kill the Moon it felt like their connection was on autopilot. It also didn't help that something has seemed "off" about Clara since the Orient Express episode. They exaggerated many of her worse qualities towards the end (Flatline being a slight exception) which culminated in the simulated burning of the TARDIS keys in the previous episode. At that point I emotionally divorced myself from the character for many of her actions in the episode.

 

Also I'm getting the sick of this obsession with Moffatt's Nu Who that everyone has to have a "tragic" end or suffer some sort of tremendous consequence to finish off their character arc. It also left a bad taste in my mouth that all the dead became Cyberman. It's one of those things that make me never want to be in the Doctor Who universe and also that doesn't bode well for characters that have passed in-universe in the show (Amy and Rory anyone!).

 

I like the Missy/Master as a character but killing Osgood was a big no. It seems like in Day of the Doctor and this episode they were setting up the character to have some greater relevance only to just off her.

 

Still this isn't enough to make me dislike Series 8 as a whole. I do like how Series 8 returned to a more traditional format and did manage to give Clara some very vital character depth. While Series 7 had some hits and misses this Series is more rewatchable as a whole. I do think that Moffatt is making a bad habit of trolling the fandom by setting up expectations that may or may not get addressed in the show. Also after Dark Water I feel Clara has run her course and her controlling nature either needs to be quelled in show or we just move on.

 

We'll see how the Christmas special and Series 9 handles things. There was a lot of promise in this series but if the negative aspects overtake the show we may need a new showrunner. 

[bmoore4026]

Oh, my God!  They killed Osgood!  You bastards!

 

Seriously, why couldn't Osgood be the next Companion?

 

Is that it for Clara?  Or will she be back for the Christmas Special?

 

Speaking of Christmas Special,  NICK FROST AS SANTA!  There aren't enough :D emoticons I can use to express how I feel!

[Robert]

^I think Osgood ending up as a companion would face the same problems Liz Shaw did. To smart and to invested in UNIT.

I wanted to like it, I really did, I even tried extra hard cherry on top, but once again Moffat lived up to his inability to writing endings (heck him still bitter about 'Press Gang' two decades later!)

So to avoid getting miffed again, I'll just focus on the good stuff :)

Michelle Gomez is/was excellent. I do hope we get to see her again.

Jenna's acting was spot on, and I loved her Doctor fake out scene (so four wives...)

I'm thinking Human!Osgood wears Four's scarf and the Zygon!Osgood chose to take on Eleven's Bow tie to distinguish herself.

The Brig scene... Beautiful

Edited November 9, 2014 by Robert

[futurechemist]

Screw BBC America!  For other episodes this season, the episode aired at 6, 9, and midnight (PT).  A nice orderly pattern.  We were out until 7, so we missed the first showing.  We just turned to BBC America for the 9pm showing to find the episode was half over!  Apparently for the finale, the episode is airing at 6, 8:15, and 12:30.  Well those are pretty random times!

 

Guess I'll be downloading a torrent tonight and commenting on the episode tomorrow...

[Lantern7]

As far as cop-outs go . . .  we could've found out that Clara dreamed the whole season after Strax wonked her on the head with the newspaper.

 

futurechemist . . . the episode was an hour long on BBC, so BBC America had to slip in fifteen minutes of commercials. That's why it ran 9-10:15 p.m. Eastern time.

[wayne67]

I loved Missy going bananas.

 

Everything else flat forced and tiresome.

[futurechemist]

As far as cop-outs go . . .  we could've found out that Clara dreamed the whole season after Strax wonked her on the head with the newspaper.

 

futurechemist . . . the episode was an hour long on BBC, so BBC America had to slip in fifteen minutes of commercials. That's why it ran 9-10:15 p.m. Eastern time.

I get that it was a longer episode.  My criticism wasn't that the episode was longer than expected, but that the 2nd airing was 45 minutes EARLY, not 15 minutes LATE.  Seeing as how BBC America was running commercials every 15 minutes for the finale, you'd think they could have mentioned it was airing at a special time.

[MarquisDeCarabas]

Something that should have worked better but they were just a little too subtle was the title sequence.  After Clara said she was the Doctor we get the credits but they are flipped Jenna's name comes up first.  Also it's her eyes at the end

 

 

If it had been a little more clear I think that would have been a much bigger wth moment.

 

 

Here's hoping that it was really Zygon Osgood who was killed.  Those two guards however...how the hell don't they notice Missy slipping her cuffs and Osgood holding her handcuffs?

I'm wondering if that wasn't hallucinogenic lipstick that Missy was reapplying.

 

RTD ran the show for 5 years 4 seasons and a year of specials.  Moffat's next year is his 5th I think that might be his last depending on a couple of things  How long is the extended story arc for Capaldi's Doctor? We still have the unanswered question of why this face.  He lampshaded it too heavily in Deep Breath to just ignore it.  Also I can't imagine Moffat leaving until after Gallifrey has been found. He went through all the trouble of bringing it back I can't see him not ending that plot thread. 

 

I've enjoyed this season, but it has taken me a while to adjust to Capaldi. I'm on board now, and now that he knows who he is that he knows who he I think the show  in a much better place.

 

I assume BBC America showed it but Space didn't air the Christmas trailer so if you haven't see it it's here

 

Edited November 9, 2014 by MarquisDeCarabas

[Lantern7]

I caught the name swap, missed the eyes. Anybody else think that the scene was made just to make a misleading trailer? I will say that Clara was funny impersonating the Doctor. If only she wasn't exasperating most of the time.

[MadMouse]

Wow that wasn't just bad it was boring. So the whole point of the Master was to answer the "Am I a good man" question. I'm so glad they brought back this iconic character who could have been replaced with any generic villain and nothing would change in the episode. You bring back the Master, that's who should be the focus of the episode not Cybermen. Give me scenes of Capaldi and Gomez chewing scenery together like Tennant and Simm. Character interactions like that can overcome bad scripts. Instead we get the blank slates of Clara and Danny trying to make us care about their horrible romance. No more romance until they're willing to take the time to establish it and learn about basic human emotions and reactions. 

[Jamoche]

What do you do when the enemy is building an army from your dead, so that every time one of your soldiers dies, the enemy army gets larger?

 

You say "Ha! I knew Turn Undead would come in handy someday!"

[wayne67]

Did this episode just imply that the Master created the Afterlife and The Doctor via Danny Pink just destroyed it and everyone and their consciousness forever?

 

Wait. It's Doctor Who. They'll probably not address this like they didn't bother to explain how much of the universe reboot changed things.

[Amelie06]

I have genuinely disliked this entire series. Things started off ok with Twelve's first episode, but things quickly went off the rails. This last episode was a disaster. I was so bored yet also annoyed!

 

Danny and Clara were a terrible couple. All she did was lie and all he did was try to piss on her rainbow. I wasn't pulling for Danny to die, but he he was kind of a drag. Clara slowly revealed her sociopathic tendencies throughout this series. This culminated in the last two episodes. I get why she would want to kill Missy, but all I could think was "is this bitch really making more demands of the Doctor?"

 

That last scene between Clara and the Doctor was like all the most frustrating parts of  the movie "Ordinary People."  They were actively preventing each other from speaking the truth.

 

I did like seeing Nick Frost in the mid-credits scene. I was just thinking about how the show ended in a way that didn't give a lot of reasons to return.

[MarkHB]

Something that should have worked better but they were just a little too subtle was the title sequence.  After Clara said she was the Doctor we get the credits but they are flipped Jenna's name comes up first.  Also it's her eyes at the end

 

 

If it had been a little more clear I think that would have been a much bigger wth moment.

I caught it... even rewound and rewatched when I spotted the eyes!  Even if it was just for a short-lived con Clara was running, I thought it was hilarious and hope Jenna throws it in her demo reel.

 

I assumed that Clara knew about Jenny from when she jumped into the timestream.  The bit about four deceased wives interested me more, although dismissing his children and grandchildren as "presumed dead" makes me think it's unlikely we'll ever get a Susan appearance out of Moffat.  And if Clara's truly leaving, we probably won't get a William Russell appearance either.  Glad we got to see him in "Adventure in Space and Time".

 

Love Osgood ("Bow ties are cool") and am with those who hope it was the Zygon duplicate who died.  Did anyone else catch that her birthday is November 23?  23rd anniversary of the premiere to be exact, and a glance at WP tells me that she was born in the midst of "Trial of a Time Lord."

 

"Of course... Earth's darkest hour, and mine.  Where else would you be?"  Grossly unfair... caused significant amounts of dust to kick up in my living room.  Loved the painting of the Brig in the plane.

 

Loved the mid-credits scene, and when it ended they picked back up with the Nick Frost credit.  BWAH!  I spotted a "Cybermen created by" that I never noticed before, too.