Current Plots Discussion: Actually Today's Episode

[4evaQuez]

29 minutes ago, JBC344 said:

7.  Jen and Adrienne bought The Spectator about three years ago I believe.  Jen wasn't working at the hospital and looking for her next career move, and Adrienne was awarded a healthy sum of money in her divorce from Justin so the two went in together and revived The Spectator.  Chloe and Julie have the club.  JJ is an EMT now, Brady is out of work, Justin is still kind of a lawyer, Eric is the Director of The Horton Center, and Eli and Lani are cops.

I actually really appreciated the somewhat "cold" reception Jennifer had towards Eric.  She praised him in the speech as she should but personally you could see that she isn't over their situation.  I actually loved her turning her back on him when he arrived.  It was so out of character for 2018 Jennifer, but very 90's spunky Jennifer.

This custody battle is beyond the height of boring but I did really appreciate Justin's points to Eric and especially appreciated Chloe's generosity with inviting Eric over the next day to see Holly.  Chloe isn't treating this as a game/contest she truly believes she is right in raising Holly but doesn't want to exclude anyone else from Holly's life, including Eric.  Eric is still trying to "win" Holly as a substitute for Nicole.

Not that I didn't love Eve's dramatic reveal but seriously she has been gone what six weeks in Salem time?  It not like she has been away for years.  With Vivian it made sense she was the town pariah and no one in that room cared for her.  But with Eve you have Chloe who is her good friend.  Brady whom she ended things with but there certainly isn't any real "bad" feelings between them.  JJ, she is civil with, and is on decent terms with Justin.  The only real person she has any significant issues in that room with was Jennifer, been there done that. So while I appreciated the secrecy and reveal in context it kind of was meaningless.

Thank you for answering my questions JBC344, especially number 7. I watch this show almost daily, but  I hadn't realized there was a Horton Center or that Eric was the director.  I've also been confused as to whether Brady was still employed with Victor or not. I knew Adrienne bought the Spectator but somehow I was completely oblivious to Jenn buying it with her.I know the show is on a shoestring budget, but it would help if they could build a "work set" and just put different pictures up and rearrange the desks so these jobs could seem more meaningful.

Now that you mention it, Eve's reveal was rather anticlimatic, and for me, the Jenn/Eve rivalry seems overblown as Jenn seems like she couldn't care less about Eve.  I'm still hopeful that Kassie can bring the fire as Eve because this show needs a longterm villain that is not outright evil. Frankly, I have my doubts that Ron can write such a character as he prefers irredeemable actions with flimsy justification (see Gabi), but the show still needs someone who can serve as a catalyst for drama.

[peachmangosteen]

13 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

Why is Gabi in prison? Sami never went to prison for switching DNA results. Gabi did not change it in the computer  at all, something that Sami actually did.  She changed the results that Abby got in her hand.  Abby has no proof that Gabi did anything wrong regarding the gaslighting, it is her word against Gabi's.  Abigail lied under oath and said that Gabi confessed to killing Andre, sending her to prison.. A defense attorney would tear Abigail to shreds. What a load of bull!

Right! Unfortunately though, Gabi, being that she's an idiot lol, apparently confessed to everything. I still am not sure why the fuck she's in jail though tbh. 

I somehow missed Haley not wanting JJ to see her house or whatever. I was probably too busy being annoyed that Gabi is in jail. Anyway, I guess she's homeless. I really do not have much faith in RC to write that well, but JJ/CM is so good and the Haley actress is surprisingly competent, so we'll see.

[Lastwaltz]

@Apprentice79 I think Gabi will have a baby, too, and the chemistry between Gabi and Stefan was off the charts. Though I think CB  would have chemistry with a door. 

[Apprentice79]

30 minutes ago, Lastwaltz said:

@Apprentice79 I think Gabi will have a baby, too, and the chemistry between Gabi and Stefan was off the charts. Though I think CB  would have chemistry with a door. 

Her hottest chemistry was with Will. The actors have admitted that they had a crush on each other, but, never acted on it in real life due to both being in relationships with others.  

 

9 hours ago, 4evaQuez said:

Now that you mention it, Eve's reveal was rather anticlimatic, and for me, the Jenn/Eve rivalry seems overblown as Jenn seems like she couldn't care less about Eve.  I'm still hopeful that Kassie can bring the fire as Eve because this show needs a longterm villain that is not outright evil. Frankly, I have my doubts that Ron can write such a character as he prefers irredeemable actions with flimsy justification (see Gabi), but the show still needs someone who can serve as a catalyst for drama.

Thank you for saying that about Ron and Eve. Kassie has said that Eve will be really bad. The only person that Eve should be going after is Ben who murdered her daughter viciously for no reason at all. Eve is still putting herself ahead of Paige, even in death. It is all about her wounded pride and it is her reason for going after Jennifer.  The Jennifer/Eve rivalry has never existed in the history of the show. They disliked each other, but, it went no further than mild irritation. Eve used to call out Jennifer for playing games with Jack and Frankie.  Eve was right and Jennifer who was the heroine was allowed to make mistakes, it made her human and not a saint.  

[Kitty Redstone]

I'd love to see Eve go after Ben and make him as miserable as he made his victims and their families.

It would also be great to see Eve take a motherly interest in Gabi.  Of course I wouldn't want that relationship to take the place of Gabi and Kate ... I'd just like to see Gabi with a larger circle of friends.
 

[IWantCandy71]

On ‎12‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 9:50 PM, boes said:

But but but but....that was a GOOD thing!  Eric taking out Dr. Tan the Dan Man was a heroic act, Dan was eating Salem like Godzilla munching down on Tokyo.  I thought it would take garlic and a stake but Eric cut right to the heart of the matter.......

It was a dirty job but somebody had to do it!

(I kid ........ well, mostly ........)

I looked back at my post and thought....well, you're not wrong. :)

I never cared one way or another about Daniel, and for the most part thought he wasn't needed. But I tolerated him because it gave me more of Maggie and SR got stuff to do. And I cried for Eric when they had him in shackles on the bus and were taking him to prison for killing Daniel. He still deserved it though, whether Dan was irrelevant or not.  So yes, if you disliked or even hated Daniel, and I know most people here did-what Eric did should  still immediately disqualify him from the running. Nicole's supposed deathbed wish or not. I actually have to give Maggie props for even considering him, to be honest. She could totally use it against him and throw it in his face. The fact that she doesn't shows how classy she can be.

But then, the characters reactions in much of this are all weird and wrong. Chloe asks Sarah (the baby's AUNT) what business the custody battle is of hers ? Sarah gets on Chloe for cheating on Dan, but not on Eric for killing Dan or sleeping with Nicole behind Brady's back ? I mean, Rex just did the same thing to her. You think she'd consider that ?  I don't get it, it's all backwards to me.

Edited December 29, 2018 by IWantCandy71

[Apprentice79]

3 hours ago, IWantCandy71 said:

I looked back at my post and thought....well, you're not wrong. :)

I never cared one way or another about Daniel, and for the most part thought he wasn't needed. But I tolerated him because it gave me more of Maggie and SR got stuff to do. And I cried for Eric when they had him in shackles on the bus and were taking him to prison for killing Daniel. He still deserved it though, whether Dan was irrelevant or not.  So yes, if you disliked or even hated Daniel, and I know most people here did-what Eric did should  still immediately disqualify him from the running. Nicole's supposed deathbed wish or not. I actually have to give Maggie props for even considering him, to be honest. She could totally use it against him and throw it in his face. The fact that she doesn't shows how classy she can be.

But then, the characters reactions in much of this are all weird and wrong. Chloe asks Sarah (the baby's AUNT) what business the custody battle is of hers ? Sarah gets on Chloe for cheating on Dan, but not on Eric for killing Dan or sleeping with Nicole behind Brady's back ? I mean, Rex just did the same thing to her. You think she'd consider that ?  I don't get it, it's all backwards to me.

 

I always hated that Eric took out Dan making him a victim and Eric a murderer. I wished that Lucas had done the deed or Dan was revealed to have been a serial killer with a God complex.  His villainy went as far back as baby Grace's death. It would have been a dark story and us finding out that Dan was a big fraud  during the 50th anniversary of the show would have righted a lot of wrong that was done in Daniel's name. Holly should have been Eric's that they conceived when he and Nicole were trapped together.  Ben would not have been trashed for Chabby.  Also, Dan should not have been Maggie's child. I know that SR asked it to be written that way, but, actors should not get to write the show.  If Maggie needed a child, they could have brought back Melissa or Sarah years ago and Dirty Dan did not need to her child. He was Victor's godson that was enough.

Edited December 29, 2018 by Apprentice79

[Petunia13]

Yeah in the Dan era the writing and plot contrivances were garbage. Then they started the campaign of propping Abby to an outlandish degree and the show daily each episode for a year all story revolved around them. They got much more scenes than any lead or vet and it was a dumpster fire. 

[DaphneCat]

37 minutes ago, Apprentice79 said:

Also, Dan should not have been Maggie's child. I know that SR asked it to be written that way, but, actors should not get to write the show.  If Maggie needed a child, they could have brought back Melissa or Sarah years ago and Dirty Dan did not need to her child. He was Victor's godson that was enough.

 

25 minutes ago, Petunia13 said:

Yeah in the Dan era the writing and plot contrivances were garbage. Then they started the campaign of propping Abby to an outlandish degree and the show daily each episode for a year all story revolved around them. They got much more scenes than any lead or vet and it was a dumpster fire.

Since we're going there.  I KNOW it is a soap, and we need to suspend disbelief but the thing that ALWAYS bothered me about Dan was that the real first test tube baby in history is now only 40 years old.  Somehow Maggie was casually using technology that didn't exist and Victor was stealing eggs that couldn't even have been frozen in the first place?  If they really wanted to make Dan part of Maggie's family he could have been a child of some unknown brother or sister (from an affair by one of her parents, or a previously unknown to her marriage.)  It could have been full of soapy goodness as Maggie realized her family was not what she thought.  Incidentally, this would have also saved us from the abomination that was Summer - they would not have had to trash Maggie and Mickey's entire history - she could have been another niece.

[JBC344]

1 hour ago, DaphneCat said:

 

Since we're going there.  I KNOW it is a soap, and we need to suspend disbelief but the thing that ALWAYS bothered me about Dan was that the real first test tube baby in history is now only 40 years old.  Somehow Maggie was casually using technology that didn't exist and Victor was stealing eggs that couldn't even have been frozen in the first place?  If they really wanted to make Dan part of Maggie's family he could have been a child of some unknown brother or sister (from an affair by one of her parents, or a previously unknown to her marriage.)  It could have been full of soapy goodness as Maggie realized her family was not what she thought.  Incidentally, this would have also saved us from the abomination that was Summer - they would not have had to trash Maggie and Mickey's entire history - she could have been another niece.

Actually it is even worse.  Dan is in the Hope, Jennifer age range so he is early 50's.  I remember when they first introduced that storyline scratching my head thinking was this even possible back then?  Not only would the technology have to be invented but it would have to be well known for Victor, a non doctor, to even come up with a scheme to steal a woman's eggs, have them implanted into his best friends and have the confidence/assurance that such a thing would work.

This was a perfect example of the show taking modern day news/issues and trying to incorporate them into a storyline from 40 something years ago.  

[4evaQuez]

3 hours ago, DaphneCat said:

 

Since we're going there.  I KNOW it is a soap, and we need to suspend disbelief but the thing that ALWAYS bothered me about Dan was that the real first test tube baby in history is now only 40 years old.  Somehow Maggie was casually using technology that didn't exist and Victor was stealing eggs that couldn't even have been frozen in the first place?  If they really wanted to make Dan part of Maggie's family he could have been a child of some unknown brother or sister (from an affair by one of her parents, or a previously unknown to her marriage.)  It could have been full of soapy goodness as Maggie realized her family was not what she thought.  Incidentally, this would have also saved us from the abomination that was Summer - they would not have had to trash Maggie and Mickey's entire history - she could have been another niece.

Or better yet, Dan could have just not been related to anyone on canvas. By the time they did this storyline, Dan had already been on the show for several years, was connected to the Kirakis family, Carly, Kate and Chloe. He was also the best doctor in the entire universe. Similar to John and his 87 origin backstories, at a certain point, a character is rooted enough in the show that he/she is not required to be related to anyone, and these backstories just become meaningless and more detrimental than helpful to the character.

Speaking of Summer, I honestly didn't understand why they didn't just bring the actress on as a Melissa recast. Lisa Trusel left sometime in the 80s and the character wasn't apart of the main cast since the early 90s. I seriously doubt Lisa Trusel would have come back longterm, so it would have made perfect sense to bring Melissa back. Melissa, unlike Eve, also has a natural place on the canvas: she's a Horton, Maggie's daughter, Hope's best friend, Sarah's sister, has a long, complicated history with Jack and Kayla, and could bring a recast Nathan with her. But instead, we get some long lost daughter who only damages character history and then is written out and forgotten.  I swear the writers make things a lot more complicated for themselves than it truly has to be.

[bannana]

I hope that Rafe, Will, Sonny and JJ stand by Gabi and try to support her.  What she did was wrong but both Kate and Abigail have done worse, or at least the same, and we know that they are always excused.  When Gabi explained her perspective on how she had been harmed whilst Abigail gets off for murder with just a tune-up from Grandma Laura, she made very valid points.  I really hope that somehow she gets diagnosed with PTSD or something like that, so she can be redeemed.  But I hope she is never friendly (even fake friendly) with Abigail again.

I am starting to like Sarah a bit better.  She was great in her scenes with Adrienne.

I really cannot stand KM's portrayal of Abby.  And now that she is back I am having flashbacks to her smugness during the EJ fling.  Ugh!

[nilyank]

50 minutes ago, bannana said:

I hope that Rafe, Will, Sonny and JJ stand by Gabi and try to support her.  What she did was wrong but both Kate and Abigail have done worse, or at least the same, and we know that they are always excused.  When Gabi explained her perspective on how she had been harmed whilst Abigail gets off for murder with just a tune-up from Grandma Laura, she made very valid points.  I really hope that somehow she gets diagnosed with PTSD or something like that, so she can be redeemed.  But I hope she is never friendly (even fake friendly) with Abigail again.

 

I don't expect JJ to support her over his stupid sister whom he has previously supported all questionable choices in the past. I do expect Will and Sonny to support her because at the end of the day, they are her closest friends and more importantly, they are all raising Arianna together.

Who knows with Rafe? Why is Gabi still in jail. Doesn't Ted owe Rafe a favor for getting Stefan off his back? Maybe Rafe could be useful for once and have Ted represent his sister.

[Silver Raven]

4 hours ago, DaphneCat said:

 

Since we're going there.  I KNOW it is a soap, and we need to suspend disbelief but the thing that ALWAYS bothered me about Dan was that the real first test tube baby in history is now only 40 years old.  Somehow Maggie was casually using technology that didn't exist and Victor was stealing eggs that couldn't even have been frozen in the first place?  If they really wanted to make Dan part of Maggie's family he could have been a child of some unknown brother or sister (from an affair by one of her parents, or a previously unknown to her marriage.)  It could have been full of soapy goodness as Maggie realized her family was not what she thought.  Incidentally, this would have also saved us from the abomination that was Summer - they would not have had to trash Maggie and Mickey's entire history - she could have been another niece.

Rex and Carrie are test tube babies, too.

[bannana]

1 hour ago, nilyank said:

I don't expect JJ to support her over his stupid sister whom he has previously supported all questionable choices in the past. I do expect Will and Sonny to support her because at the end of the day, they are her closest friends and more importantly, they are all raising Arianna together.

Who knows with Rafe? Why is Gabi still in jail. Doesn't Ted owe Rafe a favor for getting Stefan off his back? Maybe Rafe could be useful for once and have Ted represent his sister.

It is so ridiculous that Gabi did not immediately hire Justin or some lawyer before she walked into the police station.  Her bro Rafe should have advised her to do so.  Such idiocy.

[JBC344]

2 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

Rex and Carrie are test tube babies, too.

I think you mean Rex and Cassie.  At least Rex and Cassie being test tube babies from the late 80's, early 90's makes more sense than Dan being one from the 60's. I can also see someone like Stefano being aware of that sort of science to help fulfill his schemes than someone like Victor who just wanted to help his best friends who have fertility issues.

 

3 hours ago, 4evaQuez said:

Or better yet, Dan could have just not been related to anyone on canvas. By the time they did this storyline, Dan had already been on the show for several years, was connected to the Kirakis family, Carly, Kate and Chloe. He was also the best doctor in the entire universe. Similar to John and his 87 origin backstories, at a certain point, a character is rooted enough in the show that he/she is not required to be related to anyone, and these backstories just become meaningless and more detrimental than helpful to the character.

Speaking of Summer, I honestly didn't understand why they didn't just bring the actress on as a Melissa recast. Lisa Trusel left sometime in the 80s and the character wasn't apart of the main cast since the early 90s. I seriously doubt Lisa Trusel would have come back longterm, so it would have made perfect sense to bring Melissa back. Melissa, unlike Eve, also has a natural place on the canvas: she's a Horton, Maggie's daughter, Hope's best friend, Sarah's sister, has a long, complicated history with Jack and Kayla, and could bring a recast Nathan with her. But instead, we get some long lost daughter who only damages character history and then is written out and forgotten.  I swear the writers make things a lot more complicated for themselves than it truly has to be.

Amen, not everyone needs to be related for us to care about them or to show a specific bond.  Maggie and Melanie had a perfectly fine "grandmother/granddaughter" relationship that was built on them coming together and caring about each other.  It didn't really need to be cemented by biology.

Days used to be great about showing friendships and different kinds of relationships without people being biologically related.  Linking people biologically is not enough to build chemistry.  Hell Sarah has been back how long now?  How many scenes has she had with other Horton's outside of Maggie?  Where are the friendship/cousin scenes with Jennifer and Hope?  Where are the scenes of her bonding with Eli?  Instead she is wrapped up in a custody case that outside of biology she has no real connection too, and spending all her time being Eric's shadow.

[bobcat1946]

3 hours ago, bannana said:

I hope that Rafe, Will, Sonny and JJ stand by Gabi and try to support her.  What she did was wrong but both Kate and Abigail have done worse, or at least the same, and we know that they are always excused.  When Gabi explained her perspective on how she had been harmed whilst Abigail gets off for murder with just a tune-up from Grandma Laura, she made very valid points.  I really hope that somehow she gets diagnosed with PTSD or something like that, so she can be redeemed.  But I hope she is never friendly (even fake friendly) with Abigail again.

I am starting to like Sarah a bit better.  She was great in her scenes with Adrienne.

I really cannot stand KM's portrayal of Abby.  And now that she is back I am having flashbacks to her smugness during the EJ fling.  Ugh!

RC is not going to allow Gabi to have an excuse like he did his beloved Abigail because he said Gabi would be shunned by Salem.  Since RC gave Abigail that excuse Salem kissed her behind.

12 hours ago, Lastwaltz said:

@Apprentice79 I think Gabi will have a baby, too, and the chemistry between Gabi and Stefan was off the charts. Though I think CB  would have chemistry with a door. 

Abigail's lapdog is not good enough for Gabi.

[bobcat1946]

3 hours ago, nilyank said:

I don't expect JJ to support her over his stupid sister whom he has previously supported all questionable choices in the past. I do expect Will and Sonny to support her because at the end of the day, they are her closest friends and more importantly, they are all raising Arianna together.

Who knows with Rafe? Why is Gabi still in jail. Doesn't Ted owe Rafe a favor for getting Stefan off his back? Maybe Rafe could be useful for once and have Ted represent his sister.

Gabi  nor Eric  do not need loser, Justin to represent unless they want to lose.

11 hours ago, Kitty Redstone said:

I'd love to see Eve go after Ben and make him as miserable as he made his victims and their families.

It would also be great to see Eve take a motherly interest in Gabi.  Of course I wouldn't want that relationship to take the place of Gabi and Kate ... I'd just like to see Gabi with a larger circle of friends.
 

Guess the want us to forget that now St. Ben killed Paige.

Edited December 30, 2018 by bobcat1946

[Apprentice79]

1 hour ago, JBC344 said:

Amen, not everyone needs to be related for us to care about them or to show a specific bond.  Maggie and Melanie had a perfectly fine "grandmother/granddaughter" relationship that was built on them coming together and caring about each other.  It didn't really need to be cemented by biology.

There is a rumor that Leo will be somebody's long lost son.  We have had Lani, Paul, Melanie, Dirty Dan, Summer, Chad,Trip, Stefan all be long lost relatives. Enough!

Edited December 30, 2018 by Apprentice79

[ByaNose]

I thought TC did great job showing his grief & anger about the baby when trashed the Christmas tree & presents. It’s too bad things didn’t work out between him & TPTB whatever the reason was. I was curious to see who his next love interest would be. There aren’t too many single woman in Salem willing to go out with a DiMera. LOL!!!! Eve is too tall for him. I guess they could have brought on a new woman for him. 

[JBC344]

2 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

There is a rumor that Leo will be somebody's long lost son.  We have had Lani, Paul, Melanie, Dirty Dan, Summer, Chad,Trip, Stefan all be long lost relatives. Enough!

For god's sake!!! My guess is this is their attempt to make Leo a viable character to keep him around longer.  Hey Days, you don't need to make Leo someone's son to keep him around, all you have to do is give him dimension.  He is a thorn in Wilson's side but that will grow old if it is his only character trait.  Expand the character through other ways outside of biology.

[Chick2Chic]

2 hours ago, bobcat1946 said:

Guess the want us to forget that now St. Ben killed Paige

This is a giant leap not based on anything I have seen onscreen. That Ben has killed multiple people is brought up all the time even if characters don't say their names each time it is brought up. Hope can barely talk about anything else the last few months. Eve went off on Ben when he was first released for his having killed Paige. Everyone who has lectured Ciara about her feelings for Ben has brought it up that he has killed three people. That he couldn't get an above board job because of his past as well as not being welcomed at most if not all establishments in Salem has been discussed onscreen too. No one on the show thinks Ben is a saint, not even Ciara or Marlena and they are his staunchest defenders. That Ben has fans who like him is a separate issue in how they view him but in terms of the show, no, they are not saying he is a saint and they never have. Folks who hate Ben may not like that all the other characters aren't screaming in his face or, ironically, assaulting him whenever they see him but there has been nothing established onscreen that anyone thinks Ben is a saint or above reproach. Quite the opposite.

And yes, I like the Cin story which is the minority opinion on here but I don't care that others don't as not everyone will like the same things. It doesn't change my opinion. I just object to generalized statements that totally contradict what has actually been shown onscreen in this case. 

[MsTree]

^^ Well said, Chick2Chic!

[JBC344]

Personally for me it's a draw. As annoying as it is to hear "Ben is a serial killer" from X amount of characters. I find it equally annoying to hear from others "Ben has changed, he is on meds". 

I like Robert Scott Wilson but I seriously think they rushed his "redemption" arc. All of the realistic hurdles he would face coming back to Salem were treated as minor inconveniences to push the Cin relationship. 

I happen to like the chemistry he has with Ciara, but think that using their relationship as his sole redemption arc was a bad idea. 

If I use Andre as a comparison of someone who was hated by most Salemites for his actions, I would say they did a much better job with him. With Andre it was a combination of redeeming him through the prism of the newly formed Dimera family. Using Andre's budding Brotherhood with Chad, his romance with Kate, his genuine friendship with Abigail, his concern for Theo, all contributed to seeing him in a new light.

Now that didn't stop others from still disliking him but it did help contribute to his integration. Hell, how many pleasant scenes did we get of Andre with Jennifer because of him helping Abby. Andre working with Laura. Andre being helpful during the Chabby wedding. 

Instead of yelling Ben sound bites between characters I hope they take a different perspective with him. I thought Ben helping Chad was a step in the right direction but working for Stefan, kidnapping Gabi was two steps back for me.  

They need to pick a direction and give Ben a proper perspective as a character, and as much as I like Cin, it isn't enough. 

[Sidney]

10 hours ago, bobcat1946 said:

RC is not going to allow Gabi to have an excuse like he did his beloved Abigail because he said Gabi would be shunned by Salem.  Since RC gave Abigail that excuse Salem kissed her behind.

Abigail's lapdog is not good enough for Gabi.

Stefan was not Abigail's lapdog. Gabi knows that.That's why she tried to make him believe the alter had returned.

Given the place that Gabi is in right now I can see her and Stefan hooking up. I don't see it lasting long though.

[Sidney]

4 hours ago, JBC344 said:

Personally for me it's a draw. As annoying as it is to hear "Ben is a serial killer" from X amount of characters. I find it equally annoying to hear from others "Ben has changed, he is on meds". 

I like Robert Scott Wilson but I seriously think they rushed his "redemption" arc. All of the realistic hurdles he would face coming back to Salem were treated as minor inconveniences to push the Cin relationship. 

I happen to like the chemistry he has with Ciara, but think that using their relationship as his sole redemption arc was a bad idea. 

If I use Andre as a comparison of someone who was hated by most Salemites for his actions, I would say they did a much better job with him. With Andre it was a combination of redeeming him through the prism of the newly formed Dimera family. Using Andre's budding Brotherhood with Chad, his romance with Kate, his genuine friendship with Abigail, his concern for Theo, all contributed to seeing him in a new light.

Now that didn't stop others from still disliking him but it did help contribute to his integration. Hell, how many pleasant scenes did we get of Andre with Jennifer because of him helping Abby. Andre working with Laura. Andre being helpful during the Chabby wedding. 

Instead of yelling Ben sound bites between characters I hope they take a different perspective with him. I thought Ben helping Chad was a step in the right direction but working for Stefan, kidnapping Gabi was two steps back for me.  

They need to pick a direction and give Ben a proper perspective as a character, and as much as I like Cin, it isn't enough. 

When you take away the two characters look good in scenes together, what's left? When they aged Ciara they forgot to give her a personality. There's nothing there. The only interest they've given her is being into some guy, or the usual spats with Claire.

Chloe is still boring but at least they've given her something other than being focused a man.

[peachmangosteen]

14 hours ago, nilyank said:

Doesn't Ted owe Rafe a favor for getting Stefan off his back? Maybe Rafe could be useful for once and have Ted represent his sister.

I like this idea. He's a better lawyer than Justin, at least! But then, who isn't?

11 hours ago, bobcat1946 said:

RC is not going to allow Gabi to have an excuse like he did his beloved Abigail because he said Gabi would be shunned by Salem.  

This will just make me love Gabi more and hate Abigail more, which is probably not their intent.

5 hours ago, JBC344 said:

They need to pick a direction and give Ben a proper perspective as a character, and as much as I like Cin, it isn't enough. 

Seriously. I was down for Cin and I liked Ben a lot when he first came back, but now they're trying to have it both ways with him and it doesn't work at all. If they want us to like/root for him and believe him to be redeemed, he can't be going around slyly threatening teens (I assume Claire and Wyatt are still teens but I have no idea really lol.) and kidnapping women.

38 minutes ago, Sidney said:

Chloe is still boring but at least they've given her something other than being focused a man.

I assume you mean Claire and she is 100% focused on a man now. The past couple months (or more idr) her whole story has just been getting Tripp from Ciara. Normally I wold hate it, but Claire and her sociopath ways were fun as hell, so I loved it lol. ETA: This reminds me, the scene from a fews eps ago with Claire hugging Tripp after he gave her the phone case was hilarious. Tripp looked like he wanted to be anywhere but there lol.

Edited December 30, 2018 by peachmangosteen

[Chick2Chic]

6 hours ago, JBC344 said:

Personally for me it's a draw. As annoying as it is to hear "Ben is a serial killer" from X amount of characters. I find it equally annoying to hear from others "Ben has changed, he is on meds". 

Except one person says that, though. Only Ciara. And usually in response to those coming at her to change her mind about dating Ben using his history. Marlena used to say he deserved a second chance but she hasn't had scenes with Ben nor talked to others about Ben since before she was shot. Everyone else onscreen constantly states the serial killer part, so IMO that cpmparison isn't even remotely on equal footing from what has happened onscreen. 

Also, for Andre, I don't see the need for them to have him compared to Ben. They don't need to have any type of similar story. For me, Andre had a longer history of unrepentant bad things and then his character long history like his suddenly being Stefano's son and not nephew was changed to fit newer stories. Two completely different characters who require(d) disparate stories.

I personally didn't have an issue with Ben threatening Claire nor Wyatt solely because they were messing with his life due to Claire's obsession with Tripp. Was he just supposed to rollover while they played games with his freedom/life? It isn't like he could go to the police since they were just as invested in believing the lies and sending him back to prison. Once it was discovered it was Tripp who also has a record, the police lost interest in actual justice. Now if was Ben randomly and constantly threatening them for no reason, I would agree that it is problematic. But that isn't the case. 

Now if you want to talk characters who need a story, Elani is it. I think Cin has more story and they are taking it slowly despite the promos that they will obviously be a lot more. They are not there yet. Elani got together without any real story. One moment it was Sheila and Valerie making Lani feel badly for not wanting Eli cause she still wanted JJ and the next thing you know, she is jealous about Sheila living with Eli and Lani & Eli are soon together. How sway? They had scenes but not any story or real screen time post their baby dying & even thay was limited screentime. But a friend commented to me that she didn't even know if an Elani story in the future was possible cause what is there to write as a real story and not just random scenes since there isn't anything to provide conflict for them.

[tribeca]

I am just happy JJ is getting a story.  

[Apprentice79]

6 hours ago, JBC344 said:

Personally for me it's a draw. As annoying as it is to hear "Ben is a serial killer" from X amount of characters. I find it equally annoying to hear from others "Ben has changed, he is on meds". 

I like Robert Scott Wilson but I seriously think they rushed his "redemption" arc. All of the realistic hurdles he would face coming back to Salem were treated as minor inconveniences to push the Cin relationship. 

I happen to like the chemistry he has with Ciara, but think that using their relationship as his sole redemption arc was a bad idea. 

If I use Andre as a comparison of someone who was hated by most Salemites for his actions, I would say they did a much better job with him. With Andre it was a combination of redeeming him through the prism of the newly formed Dimera family. Using Andre's budding Brotherhood with Chad, his romance with Kate, his genuine friendship with Abigail, his concern for Theo, all contributed to seeing him in a new light.

Now that didn't stop others from still disliking him but it did help contribute to his integration. Hell, how many pleasant scenes did we get of Andre with Jennifer because of him helping Abby. Andre working with Laura. Andre being helpful during the Chabby wedding. 

Instead of yelling Ben sound bites between characters I hope they take a different perspective with him. I thought Ben helping Chad was a step in the right direction but working for Stefan, kidnapping Gabi was two steps back for me.  

They need to pick a direction and give Ben a proper perspective as a character, and as much as I like Cin, it isn't enough. 

I would say that Andre is worst than Ben.  Andre was a serial killer from jump and he actually enjoyed killing women, leaving calling cards next to their dead bodies.  I never saw pleasure with Ben. He actually cried after killing Will.  That showed that he was capable of some type empathy for other people.  Andre has never demonstrated any type of remorse for his many victims.  Everything about Andre's so-called redemption was contrived.  His friendship with Abigail really cemented my hatred of her after what he did to her dad Jack who died saving her. Plus, Ben was thrown under the bus for Chabby. Not to mention, Stefano would never have allowed Andre to live after killing his beloved Renee.   Benjy's death was so grotesque, cruel, vile and Steve finding him broke me... Benjy was such an important part of Stayla's history during the iconic deaf storyline, Stayla did everything to protect him from the Dimera legacy and in the end it killed him anyway..

A lipstick on a pig does not change the fact that it is still a pig. So, the show could say that Andre was redeemed but he never was in my eyes.  Jack was the best redemption story that the show has ever done.. The show took great pains with the story and his redemption was not contingent on his romance with Jennifer, it was all on Jack. Plus, Jack's actions continued to have reverberations after he died.  The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones.  Look at how Jack's rape of Kayla affected his son JJ.  It nearly destroyed him.  Jack's self-loathing for his past remains indelible in his persona and it is why he is beloved by the fans.   I will happily sit alone in my disgust for Andre, as a fan of Renee Dumonde Dimera.  

[JBC344]

1 hour ago, Chick2Chic said:

Except one person says that, though. Only Ciara. And usually in response to those coming at her to change her mind about dating Ben using his history. Marlena used to say he deserved a second chance but she hasn't had scenes with Ben nor talked to others about Ben since before she was shot. Everyone else onscreen constantly states the serial killer part, so IMO that cpmparison isn't even remotely on equal footing from what has happened onscreen. 

Also, for Andre, I don't see the need for them to have him compared to Ben. They don't need to have any type of similar story. For me, Andre had a longer history of unrepentant bad things and then his character long history like his suddenly being Stefano's son and not nephew was changed to fit newer stories. Two completely different characters who require(d) disparate stories.

I personally didn't have an issue with Ben threatening Claire nor Wyatt solely because they were messing with his life due to Claire's obsession with Tripp. Was he just supposed to rollover while they played games with his freedom/life? It isn't like he could go to the police since they were just as invested in believing the lies and sending him back to prison. Once it was discovered it was Tripp who also has a record, the police lost interest in actual justice. Now if was Ben randomly and constantly threatening them for no reason, I would agree that it is problematic. But that isn't the case. 

Now if you want to talk characters who need a story, Elani is it. I think Cin has more story and they are taking it slowly despite the promos that they will obviously be a lot more. They are not there yet. Elani got together without any real story. One moment it was Sheila and Valerie making Lani feel badly for not wanting Eli cause she still wanted JJ and the next thing you know, she is jealous about Sheila living with Eli and Lani & Eli are soon together. How sway? They had scenes but not any story or real screen time post their baby dying & even thay was limited screentime. But a friend commented to me that she didn't even know if an Elani story in the future was possible cause what is there to write as a real story and not just random scenes since there isn't anything to provide conflict for them.

My point of using Andre as a comparison is that he is a serial killer as well. My overall point is that with Andre's version of "redemption" it is based on him establishing multiple relationships with this new version of his family. That went a long way to seeing him in a new light. With Ben it is only happening with Ciara, one person, which to me is a mistake. 

27 minutes ago, Apprentice79 said:

I would say that Andre is worst than Ben.  Andre was a serial killer from jump and he actually enjoyed killing women, leaving calling cards next to their dead bodies.  I never saw pleasure with Ben. He actually cried after killing Will.  That showed that he was capable of some type empathy for other people.  Andre has never demonstrated any type of remorse for his many victims.  Everything about Andre's so-called redemption was contrived.  His friendship with Abigail really cemented my hatred of her after what he did to her dad Jack who died saving her. Plus, Ben was thrown under the bus for Chabby. Not to mention, Stefano would never have allowed Andre to live after killing his beloved Renee.   Benjy's death was so grotesque, cruel, vile and Steve finding him broke me... Benjy was such an important part of Stayla's history during the iconic deaf storyline, Stayla did everything to protect him from the Dimera legacy and in the end it killed him anyway..

A lipstick on a pig does not change the fact that it is still a pig. So, the show could say that Andre was redeemed but he never was in my eyes.  Jack was the best redemption story that the show has ever done.. The show took great pains with the story and his redemption was not contingent on his romance with Jennifer, it was all on Jack. Plus, Jack's actions continued to have reverberations after he died.  The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones.  Look at how Jack's rape of Kayla affected his son JJ.  It nearly destroyed him.  Jack's self-loathing for his past remains indelible in his persona and it is why he is beloved by the fans.   I will happily sit alone in my disgust for Andre, as a fan of Renee Dumonde Dimera.  

Oh please don't missunderstand me, I don't think Andre was redeemed at all, which is why I kept putting redemption in quotes. But I do think the "redemption" storyline for Andre is much better than the one currently for Ben because Andre's involved multiple people, Ben is only involving one, a romantic relationship at that. 

[Apprentice79]

1 hour ago, JBC344 said:

Oh please don't missunderstand me, I don't think Andre was redeemed at all, which is why I kept putting redemption in quotes. But I do think the "redemption" storyline for Andre is much better than the one currently for Ben because Andre's involved multiple people, Ben is only involving one, a romantic relationship at that. 

I can see your point, but, Cin is very popular and I think that will make the writers write for them.  I wish we had had a scene between Kristen and Andre.  There are a lot of things that went wrong with her life after she got with him. Tandre's revenge on John started the ball rolling with John realizing he loved Marlena more than anything and  pushed him to write that letter that Kristen intercepted that led to her self-destruction into madness.  The writers used to be on point, setting up storylines that would lead to other stories.  I may not be a big fan of JER, but Kristen's slow descent into evil was his best story, in my opinion..

Edited December 30, 2018 by Apprentice79

[TigerLynx]

7 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

I will happily sit alone in my disgust for Andre, as a fan of Renee Dumonde Dimera.  

I will be sitting right there with you.  This is just one of the many reasons I despise Andre and Stefano, and why I believe 2007 should have been the last we saw of either of them.

[Chick2Chic]

7 hours ago, JBC344 said:

My point of using Andre as a comparison is that he is a serial killer as well. My overall point is that with Andre's version of "redemption" it is based on him establishing multiple relationships with this new version of his family. That went a long way to seeing him in a new light. With Ben it is only happening with Ciara, one person, which to me is a mistake. 

I got your point but I didn't agree with it as it compared two disparate characters on one commonality to make them appear overall equal. It also made the claim that others were constantly defending Ben when it is one person who only does it when folks roll up on her with their "Ben is everything wrong in the world" diatribes.

I also think the storyline goals are different with Andre and with Ben in that Andre's was to lull some into thinking he had changed before the reveal he was still bad so a build up before a fall as a dramatic plot twist (Abby killing him then her DID story) to launch other stories. Ben's is everyone save 2 ppl resisting that he is better with therapy & meds post prison so it is the uphill climb for a slowly evolving story still being built vs being a plot point.

And IA with @Apprentice79 that this should and hopefully will lead TPTB to writing more for Ben/Ciara/Cin due to their popularity. There should be more individual POV from those two (though you could say that for a lot of current Days characters, esp the under 40 folks). And IA that Andre was much worse than Ben, which is why I and some I know didn't actually buy his shoddily written redemption and figured it was more a bridge to another story than a true redemption. 

[WendyCR72]

I just can't fathom why soaps go so far with characters in the first place only to do a half-assed job of "redemption" later on. At least as far as murdering characters are concerned.

I know, all crime is bad. But I do think it is a wee bit easier to try and redeem a rapist like, say, Jack Deveraux, especially when the writing is there to show his own disgust and remorse and his gradual metamorphosis, as the show did. And in Jack's case, it was made harder since his victim was his own ex-wife and now sister-in-law, married to his brother whom he eventually came to love. But importantly, Kayla was alive and got to show her disdain and wariness. She had agency.

However, soaps no longer have the luxury of patience of the audience (nor as big an audience) and, to me, murderers are irredeemable. Another life is gone because this person killed the other. So I have absolutely zero fucks to give about a killer's pain or whether he will find love. What if the love interest cheats or does something the killer dislikes?

And this doesn't stop at Ben. It's the same revulsion I have for the heavy-duty whitewash BS hatchet job over at GH that tries to salvage Frank Valentini's buddy, Roger Howarth, as he plays a "reformed" serial killer, Franco. Who, BTW, was extremely warped under his original actor of James Franco himself. Why the show felt THAT CHARACTER needed a comeback, I will never understand, but the show still keeps selling him.

And, to me, to make this long-winded babbling have a point, this is another reason soaps are in the crapper: The line between good and evil and consequences is long gone. I understand liking an actor, but some characters are just not worth it. Either be careful how far you go with a character or, if you simply MUST keep him or her after their character goes beyond the pale to killing someone? Send THAT character to prison and...voila! A lookalike! Or a twin. 

But muting consequences blunts the payoff. And it sucks.

Whew! Rant done!

[SueB]

On 12/28/2018 at 5:44 PM, bobcat1946 said:

Chad and Abigail invited Abigail to dinner and thought that was enough to heal Gabi and put her life back in place.

THIS x1000.  Chad and Abgail should have ask Gabi how they could help her financially.  Or help her get back Gabi Chic.  They should have done so much more.  And Kayla should have recommended Gabi seek therapy rather than sleeping meds. I know the meds were just a ruse on Gabi's part but Kayla knew the extent of her physical and mental trauma and should have been more proactive IMO.

Edited December 31, 2018 by SueB

[ByaNose]

Even, Daytime Confidential doesn’t like Hope &. Rafe. That’s gotta burn a little. LOL!!!

 

https://daytimeconfidential.com/2018/12/30/top-10-worst-soap-couples-of-2018#&gid=ci023ba43ea00027e7&pid=rafe-and-hope

[boes]

2 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I just can't fathom why soaps go so far with characters in the first place only to do a half-assed job of "redemption" later on. At least as far as murdering characters are concerned.

I know, all crime is bad. But I do think it is a wee bit easier to try and redeem a rapist like, say, Jack Deveraux, especially when the writing is there to show his own disgust and remorse and his gradual metamorphosis, as the show did. And in Jack's case, it was made harder since his victim was his own ex-wife and now sister-in-law, married to his brother whom he eventually came to love. But importantly, Kayla was alive and got to show her disdain and wariness. She had agency.

However, soaps no longer have the luxury of patience of the audience (nor as big an audience) and, to me, murderers are irredeemable. Another life is gone because this person killed the other. So I have absolutely zero fucks to give about a killer's pain or whether he will find love. What if the love interest cheats or does something the killer dislikes?

And this doesn't stop at Ben. It's the same revulsion I have for the heavy-duty whitewash BS hatchet job over at GH that tries to salvage Frank Valentini's buddy, Roger Howarth, as he plays a "reformed" serial killer, Franco. Who, BTW, was extremely warped under his original actor of James Franco himself. Why the show felt THAT CHARACTER needed a comeback, I will never understand, but the show still keeps selling him.

And, to me, to make this long-winded babbling have a point, this is another reason soaps are in the crapper: The line between good and evil and consequences is long gone. I understand liking an actor, but some characters are just not worth it. Either be careful how far you go with a character or, if you simply MUST keep him or her after their character goes beyond the pale to killing someone? Send THAT character to prison and...voila! A lookalike! Or a twin. 

But muting consequences blunts the payoff. And it sucks.

Whew! Rant done!

No rant, your post was a thing of truth and beauty.

Marvelous!!

[DisneyBoy]

On 12/28/2018 at 6:40 PM, Kitty Redstone said:

@Chick2Chic,  Other than Abigail's narcissism and selfishness, no, there was no explanation.  She didn't want Ben but didn't want him to not want her, so she stayed with him while cheating with Chad. 

Totally agree - Daniel Cosgrove and KA were very good together when he first came on.  It was a damn shame they were ruined for PR's exit story.  I think Josh Griffith was to blame for Aiden's destruction. 

ETA:  Or maybe it was that awful Higley.  There's been so many writer changes in the last few years!

The way the show refused, at the time, to allow Abigail to have some clarity about her own shitty behavior still mystifies me. I'm not saying it's her fault Ben killed people, mind you, but she gave zero thought to what drove him over the edge. Halloween episode Serena was the only one to call her out. At least she was Abigail's nightmare, though!

I still fume over WTH happened with Aiden and then how they brought Cosgrove BACK to further trash him.

Quote

some I know didn't actually buy his shoddily written redemption and figured it was more a bridge to another story than a true redemption

*Raises hand*

[tribeca]

Wasn’t the story that Abigail just thought she should be with Ben ?  Ben was supposedly the nice guy and Chad was a bad Demeria.   

Ben was always possessive of Abgail. He had anger issues that Jordan his sister was afraid of and tried to help him with.  Many on here at a time thought there was going to be a abuse story.  

Ben had many issues before he started killing.   

[Lastwaltz]

34 minutes ago, tribeca said:

Wasn’t the story that Abigail just thought she should be with Ben ?  Ben was supposedly the nice guy and Chad was a bad Demeria.   

Ben was always possessive of Abgail. He had anger issues that Jordan his sister was afraid of and tried to help him with.  Many on here at a time thought there was going to be a abuse story.  

Ben had many issues before he started killing.   

Yep, that's what I recall, too. There was a slow(ish) burn for Chad and Abby, where she showed some internal conflict about her growing feelings for Chad and tried to push them away. Until that fateful night in the Dimeara garden, lol. 

[peachmangosteen]

21 hours ago, Chick2Chic said:

I personally didn't have an issue with Ben threatening Claire nor Wyatt solely because they were messing with his life due to Claire's obsession with Tripp. Was he just supposed to rollover while they played games with his freedom/life?

No, but playing like he might strangle them was, well, an interesting choice for a serial killer that strangled 4 people and supposedly feels super bad about it. It's gross. I have no problem with a redemption story, in fact I'm a sucker for that shit, but this one sucks right now. It started out well, but it's close to going off the rails at this point imo. They might get it back on track eventually though, especially since Cin is probably the most popular thing they have currently. But they probably figure the Cin fans will love them no matter what and they may continue to try to have it both ways with Ben. 

[TigerLynx]

The writers do a lousy job when they try to redeem the average person who has gone to far.  They are even worse when it comes to rapists and murderers.  However, when it comes to serial killers, they can't be cured.  This is common knowledge.  Given the chance a serial killer will kill again and keep killing.  It's what they do.

[Apprentice79]

Jack is back. Thank you Ron! I hope that he does not blow it. I wish that Jack did not have amnesia so soon after Will's own bout of it, but, I will take what I can get. Jennifer having to fight for Jack is going to be vintage Jack and Jennifer.  This is the start of the redemption of Jennifer Rose Horton Devereaux.  I have not liked her since Daniel.  I loved Jack throwing Daniel and her shitty behavior in her face. Finally! Jack has always been afraid of being too aggressive with Jennifer because of his past. He is always measured with her even in anger. I am going to love that amnesiac Jack will be able to express his rage and anger that we fans experienced at the height of Dannifer. 

I hate Eve's inclusion in their story, she was never a threat to them like Peter Blake. I am one of the few Jack and Jennifer fan that loved Jennifer with Peter, not only because of  their hot chemistry, but, it was easier to accept them because of the recast Jack. I did like recast Jack, but, he was a generic bland hero and Jack is no such thing.  Recast Jack should have been either a recast Mike, a recast Austin or a new character altogether. Eve's soliloquy made me sick. How could she hate Jennifer more than Ben who murdered her daughter. Her entire speech would have made sense if Kristen was doing that to Marlena. As much as I loved Marlena, she did overstepped her bounds with Kristen at times in her search for the truth about Kristen. I am in no way dismissing Kristen's actions but, I can  see why she felt Marlena ruined her life with John. I did not agree with her, but, I can see her point a bit.  Not to mention, there were a lot of things that happened to Kristen that affected her fragile mental state. Eve has had none of those, in my opinion. She is just a hateful bitter woman who only cares about herself.  

[IWantCandy71]

On ‎12‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 1:02 PM, Apprentice79 said:

I always hated that Eric took out Dan making him a victim and Eric a murderer. I wished that Lucas had done the deed or Dan was revealed to have been a serial killer with a God complex.  His villainy went as far back as baby Grace's death. It would have been a dark story and us finding out that Dan was a big fraud  during the 50th anniversary of the show would have righted a lot of wrong that was done in Daniel's name. Holly should have been Eric's that they conceived when he and Nicole were trapped together.  Ben would not have been trashed for Chabby.  Also, Dan should not have been Maggie's child. I know that SR asked it to be written that way, but, actors should not get to write the show.  If Maggie needed a child, they could have brought back Melissa or Sarah years ago and Dirty Dan did not need to her child. He was Victor's godson that was enough.

I wouldn't call Eric a murderer. He didn't premeditate Daniel's death. But he did willingly and knowingly get behind the wheel while drunk. I think Eric's story at the time couldn't have gone many other ways-considering GV was leaving. He could have left town to go to rehab, but that wouldn't be nearly as interesting an exit. And in truth-part of Eric's personality has always been "I'll do what I want when I want". The exit that time was completely in character to me.

[IWantCandy71]

On ‎12‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 10:05 PM, Apprentice79 said:

There is a rumor that Leo will be somebody's long lost son.  We have had Lani, Paul, Melanie, Dirty Dan, Summer, Chad,Trip, Stefan all be long lost relatives. Enough!

I can actually see the logic behind making someone  a long lost kid, though. Because eventually-if a character sticks and they are popular-they are going to have a relative come aboard the show. Which is worse-having them be a long lost kid of someone the audience already knows and loves, or having the show invent a brand new character the audience doesn't care about, to be the sibling/child/spouse/parent of that character ? It's only technically a "retcon" if the event was supposed to have happened while the character was on the show. The aforementioned Rex and Cassie were born when Kate was off canvas. Therefore, not technically a retcon, just a not needed plot point. It's the times a show will do something when you know it couldn't have happened, because the character was on the canvas at the time and was never pregnant, that it irritates me. Although having a character be on the show for four decades and never once mentioning or hinting they'd given up a child/believed to have had a miscarriage, etc-that can be annoying.

[howmanywords]

Keep in mind Im a massive Jack fan and I'm deliriously happy to see MA back so I'm biased and all, but after one day back

Jack >>>half the men on the canvas. 

[Happytobehere]

I’m glad I got to see Jack’s return. I for one hope that he does not take this incarnation of Jennifer back because she is the worst. I know we are supposed to hate Eve  (KDP looked phenomenal today) and be rooting for Jennifer to get back with Jack, but she is his ex-wife for a reason. The show turned Jennifer into a pick-me person and IMO, she has never recovered from the Daniel pairing, if anything, Jennifer’s character has gotten progressively worse. At this point, I would like to see Jack paired with Eve for a while to see what happens there.

Call me cruel but I loved Eve ripping into little Ms. Horton (I am so glad that Tom and Alice are dead so they can’t see the self-indulgent, self-serving, holier than thou while acting lower than the low genetic links to them that currently occupy Salem. I mean Jennifer, Abigail, Julie, etc. are all awful and virtually unwatchable at this point , and to think at one point, these were some of my favorite characters. The Hortons are now so awful that I’m thinking that they latest family retcon will reveal Brady to be a Horton, because at this point, there is no other explanation for that a**hole). 

I nearly laughed when Adrienne told Jack he was in a room full of people who love him. I mean, there was like a total of five people who even know who Jack is in that room. At least we got a mention of Steve but no SN on the horizon. To give this story more depth, imagine the flashback scenes we could get with the MA, SN, JE, MBE, MR on canvass, but Steve has been ruined yet again to further the agenda of TPTB.

The only thing that sucked this episode was, and it pains me to say it, the obligatory black couple.  Eli and Lani just don’t work, but Days continues in its historical pattern of pairing chemistry less black couples because the “ism” is powerful and real. The actor who plays Eli has so much potential, it the show chose to use him properly, but his role (much like any actress who has been paired with the dreadful GG’s Rafe) is to prop up a bland, and poorly acted character whose is clearly portrayed by someone who is liked by the right people behind the scenes because their continued employment makes no sense.

[Happytobehere]

2 hours ago, Apprentice79 said:

Jack is back. Thank you Ron! I hope that he does not blow it. I wish that Jack did not have amnesia so soon after Will's own bout of it, but, I will take what I can get. Jennifer having to fight for Jack is going to be vintage Jack and Jennifer.  This is the start of the redemption of Jennifer Rose Horton Devereaux.  I have not liked her since Daniel.  I loved Jack throwing Daniel and her shitty behavior in her face. Finally! Jack has always been afraid of being too aggressive with Jennifer because of his past. He is always measured with her even in anger. I am going to love that amnesiac Jack will be able to express his rage and anger that we fans experienced at the height of Dannifer. 

I hate Eve's inclusion in their story, she was never a threat to them like Peter Blake. I am one of the few Jack and Jennifer fan that loved Jennifer with Peter, not only because of  their hot chemistry, but, it was easier to accept them because of the recast Jack. I did like recast Jack, but, he was a generic bland hero and Jack is no such thing.  Recast Jack should have been either a recast Mike, a recast Austin or a new character altogether. Eve's soliloquy made me sick. How could she hate Jennifer more than Ben who murdered her daughter. Her entire speech would have made sense if Kristen was doing that to Marlena. As much as I loved Marlena, she did overstepped her bounds with Kristen at times in her search for the truth about Kristen. I am in no way dismissing Kristen's actions but, I can  see why she felt Marlena ruined her life with John. I did not agree with her, but, I can see her point a bit.  Not to mention, there were a lot of things that happened to Kristen that affected her fragile mental state. Eve has had none of those, in my opinion. She is just a hateful bitter woman who only cares about herself.  

I agree with the first part of your post, but my disdain for the current incarnation of Jennifer has me rooting for the still painfully miscast Eve (my love for KDP aside) because I want what has come to be the all too familiar Horton smugness and entitlement to be ripped away from her and Eve as villain in the hands of KDP is just the person to do it. However, I will add that I haven’t truly watched the show since the last Steve and Kayla shitshow of a storyline.

[Apprentice79]

1 hour ago, IWantCandy71 said:

I can actually see the logic behind making someone  a long lost kid, though. Because eventually-if a character sticks and they are popular-they are going to have a relative come aboard the show. Which is worse-having them be a long lost kid of someone the audience already knows and loves, or having the show invent a brand new character the audience doesn't care about, to be the sibling/child/spouse/parent of that character ? It's only technically a "retcon" if the event was supposed to have happened while the character was on the show. The aforementioned Rex and Cassie were born when Kate was off canvas. Therefore, not technically a retcon, just a not needed plot point. It's the times a show will do something when you know it couldn't have happened, because the character was on the canvas at the time and was never pregnant, that it irritates me. Although having a character be on the show for four decades and never once mentioning or hinting they'd given up a child/believed to have had a miscarriage, etc-that can be annoying.

 I can see your point. However, It is too much to make every new character a long lost relative. It makes the show too incestuous and limits the dating pool.   I personally hated that Rex and Cassie were long lost Bradys. Lucas had awesome chemistry with Cassie who was his sister, the best chemistry he had since Sami.  Rex and Cassie should have been Orpheus' children  who came to town to take vengeance on Marlena, John and Roman.  Not to mention, they could have also targeted Eric, Sami, Carrie, Brady and Belle. It could have been an umbrella story that was rooted in history, impacting different characters.