S05.E03: Four Walls And A Roof

[GodsBeloved]

Yeah, Tyeese will kill walkers but it seems the only time he will is if they're actually attacking HIM. Otherwise, he'll hold the baby and you're pretty much on your own.

If this is the case, I hope the writers show Tyreese sitting on his hands and leaving someone on their own to fight off walkers.

 

Considering Tyreese risked his life to save Judith, it would be a shock if he refused to help someone (kill walkers) when he is the only help available.

Edited October 28, 2014 by GodsBeloved

[henripootel]

It would have been amusing if Rick gave a speech before he macheted Gareth. Something along the lines of

 

"It's not personal. We would have done this to any cannibals. There is, I admit, a kind of cosmic justice to this after you tried to eat us, and did ate Bob's leg. But we don't do this because we want to, we do this because we have to...because a man's gotta live".

He did.  He just didn't say it out loud, just gave Gareth the time to appreciate the finer points of what comes of FUCKING WITH US.

 

Kudos to Andrew Lincoln for this scene - he isn't the most dynamic of actors but he nailed that scene to the door.  If I'd been Andrew West, I might have peed a little.

[LilySilver]

The writers really dropped the ball with letting Maggie go away without even mentioning Beth.  Hell, when she was getting on the bus she could have thrown a line out to Rick about maybe, I don't know, entrusting him to make sure Beth got back safely.  Anything rather than nothing.

 

Hey, she could have stuck her hands in a nearby dead Termite's guts and written a quick note on the wall of the church, at least..."Beth, go to DC via 85 North and 95 North. See you there!  Love, Maggie."

 

See what you think of this opinion  ;-)

 

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2014/oct/27/the-walking-dead-season-five-episode-three-recap

Ha! I loved that review, thanks for sharing. And it reminded me that when Father Pee-Pants (LOVE THIS.)  was making his grand confession and everyone was just standing there, I was thinking, "Really? That's all you did?"  and wondering if someone was going to pipe up, "Well, Father, if it makes you feel any better, this one time, in Woodbury..." and the whole episode would devolve into a "You think THAT's bad, wait 'till you hear this..." Round-Robin confessional dealio.

 

That was before I moved on to wondering how a whole bunch of people couldn't knock through those double-doors, or break a window, yet someone had the time and presence of mind to neatly carve a message of damnation to the priest.  More unlikely is this, to me: At the very beginning of the ZA, I am quite sure that I would not have been thinking of maintaining a food supply immediately.  Immediately, I'd be most scared of being alone. Like trapped alone in the church. I would have let as many people in at that point as I could find.  The writers could have thrown in something about Gabriel being afraid of everyone at that point, not knowing how or when they might turn into the undead.  Otherwise, it just makes no sense to be huddling alone in the church afraid of your own parishioners. If you think about it.  I really do try not to overthink these things, because it ruins the show for me.

 

Sargent Ginger. Father Pee-Pants. Tyreese clutching his pearls.  I love you people.

[Ottis]

b"It's not personal. We would have done this to any cannibals. There is, I admit, a kind of cosmic justice to this after you tried to eat us, and did ate Bob's leg. But we don't do this because we want to, we do this because we have to...because a man's gotta live".

 

 

I think he did that, but the show took a slightly different path. Instead of Rick parroting Gareth's words back to Gareth, Rick parroted what Bob told him that Gareth had said to Bob when Bon awoke with no lower leg. "If not us, it will be someone else. It could be anyone." If I am Gareth, those words are more horrifying because they are not parody but simply Rick accurately stating the facts. Rick has come a long way since the Shane days.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Ottis

[kikismom]

One thing I haven't mentioned but truly loved was Carl tapping on his gun while they were hiding from the Termites. It took me back to all the old western movies with duels in the streets. I thought it was a nice touch and signified his badassery.

When Carl was tapping his gun, it reminded me of the "Cell Block Tango" scene from Chicago. It would have been nice if Carl had come out after the massacre softly singing : "he had it coming, he had it coming, he only had himself to blame, if you had seen it, if you had been there, I betcha you would have done the same..."

 

 

If this is the case, I hope the writers show Tyreese sitting on his hands and leaving someone on their own to fight off walkers.

 

Considering Tyreese risked his life to save Judith, it would be a shock if he refused to help someone (kill walkers) when he is the only help available.

 I think they already did that when the walker came after them on the railroad tracks and Tyreese balked and Carol had to give him the baby and go kill it even though it took her to the ground,

 

 

That was before I moved on to wondering how a whole bunch of people couldn't knock through those double-doors, or break a window, yet someone had the time and presence of mind to neatly carve a message of damnation to the priest. 

Yeah--I don't understand if there was a herd that attacked the congregation outside, why weren't there any bloodstains? The paint was peeling off that rotten wood of the church siding; trust me nobody scrubbed those clapboards.

Why didn't our people say 'where is this place you buried the bones of all those people? Because that would be a damn big hole and it should still be a visible spot in this yard---you ain't strong enough to dig 10 feet deep. And you sure as shit didn't bury them in the woods without a Bobcat or a DitchWitch; the tree roots couldn't even be cut with a saw...how did this happen again? And why doesn't the door have marks where people clawed and kicked like hell and those shutters are thin strips of rotting wood I could snap with one hand and people could have boosted each other through the window and I think you're a liar."

And no one asks why he sets empty cans around the altar? We don't ask about Bob's box; a lot of mysteries will never be answered.

[shanndee]

Hey, she could have stuck her hands in a nearby dead Termite's guts and written a quick note on the wall of the church, at least..."Beth, go to DC via 85 North and 95 North. See you there!  Love, Maggie."

 

Ha! I loved that review, thanks for sharing. And it reminded me that when Father Pee-Pants (LOVE THIS.)  was making his grand confession and everyone was just standing there, I was thinking, "Really? That's all you did?"  and wondering if someone was going to pipe up, "Well, Father, if it makes you feel any better, this one time, in Woodbury..." and the whole episode would devolve into a "You think THAT's bad, wait 'till you hear this..." Round-Robin confessional dealio.

 

That was before I moved on to wondering how a whole bunch of people couldn't knock through those double-doors, or break a window, yet someone had the time and presence of mind to neatly carve a message of damnation to the priest.  More unlikely is this, to me: At the very beginning of the ZA, I am quite sure that I would not have been thinking of maintaining a food supply immediately.  Immediately, I'd be most scared of being alone. Like trapped alone in the church. I would have let as many people in at that point as I could find.  The writers could have thrown in something about Gabriel being afraid of everyone at that point, not knowing how or when they might turn into the undead.  Otherwise, it just makes no sense to be huddling alone in the church afraid of your own parishioners. If you think about it.  I really do try not to overthink these things, because it ruins the show for me.

 

Sargent Ginger. Father Pee-Pants. Tyreese clutching his pearls.  I love you people.

 

Your third paragraph is why I don't believe we know the whole story behind Gabriel. We saw how easy it was for the Termites to break in, so there is no way the entire congregation couldn't force their way in. I still think he was working with the cannibals. If he "collected" people for them, they allowed him to live. He would leave some kind of marker so they would know there were new victims (the scarlet A on the church?). Someone who survived the collection process left the "you'll burn" message.

[LilySilver]

When Carl was tapping his gun, it reminded me of the "Cell Block Tango" scene from Chicago. It would have been nice if Carl had come out after the massacre softly singing : "he had it coming, he had it coming, he only had himself to blame, if you had seen it, if you had been there, I betcha you would have done the same..."

 

 

 I think they already did that when the walker came after them on the railroad tracks and Tyreese balked and Carol had to give him the baby and go kill it even though it took her to the ground,

 

Yeah--I don't understand if there was a herd that attacked the congregation outside, why weren't there any bloodstains? The paint was peeling off that rotten wood of the church siding; trust me nobody scrubbed those clapboards.

Why didn't our people say 'where is this place you buried the bones of all those people? Because that would be a damn big hole and it should still be a visible spot in this yard---you ain't strong enough to dig 10 feet deep. And you sure as shit didn't bury them in the woods without a Bobcat or a DitchWitch; the tree roots couldn't even be cut with a saw...how did this happen again? And why doesn't the door have marks where people clawed and kicked like hell and those shutters are thin strips of rotting wood I could snap with one hand and people could have boosted each other through the window and I think you're a liar."

And no one asks why he sets empty cans around the altar? We don't ask about Bob's box; a lot of mysteries will never be answered.

 

Yes, every week I have to remind myself to "let it go" on some inconsistency or another.

 

I thought Gareth's pleas for his life said so much about his character and how seriously devoid of empathy he was.  How he really did not understand that there was good left in people, and people are making a choice every day to remain human and decent.  Did not occur to him that his choices were unreasonable at all.  First his argument as others have noted, that "Hey, we'll never cross paths again. Promise."  Like the only problem that Rick had with him (even if he trusted that promise) was that he was a direct threat to himself and his family.  When Rick replied that he'd cross paths with someone else, and Rick had a problem with that, Gareth looked surprised.  Then, always self-righteous, Gareth says, (paraphrasing) "I can tell by looking at you; you've never been hungry."  As if that's the difference between the Termites and CDB.  A rumbly-tumbly.  I think I'd have seen red at that point too.  After all they've been through, the sacrifices they've made, the losses they've endured, and time and again making the conscious decision to try to retain their humanity, this sick fuck says, "Well, sure you're not a cannibal; you've just never been hungry."   As if cannibalism is about a physical void, rather than a complete lack of a soul.  

 

No lookout posted outside for the Termites going into the church, and none for CDB either. Sigh. Well, again:  Let it GO.

 

I do have to believe we were meant to be shocked and horrified by the brutality with which they killed the Termites, but it didn't hit me that hard.  As someone said above, marching them outside and calmly executing them would have been just as brutal.  What are the other options? Letting them go?

 

And Gabriel's reaction didn't bother me either--in fact I thought it was pretty understated considering how little he has seen since the ZA started and how truly brutal these people who have suddenly come into his life must appear to him.  I could see him running for his life. As sheltered as he's been, can you imagine how he feels having fallen in with this hardened bunch?  And  they accuse him of being a threat?! He must think he has finally gone completely mad.

Edited October 28, 2014 by LilySilver

[Happy Harpy]

I don't feel sorry for Father Gabriel, but I like that he's pretty much a coward who owns it; I don't feel that the writers try to explain or excuse his reactions aside from his being afraid. I liked less the self-righteous "the House of the Lord", although it was more of an ingrained reaction imo, a kind of automatism. Unless something deeply changes him, and I'm not sure that people can change that much, he's going to run and hide any time there's danger. If anyone from the group expects otherwise and trusts him not to, it'll be on them.

 

Not sorry about the Termites. I'm firmly in the camp of those who'll worry about Rick and co's humanity when they begin to treat innocents or strangers in the same way they did with Gareth and his tainted meat-eaters. Or in the same way that Gareth and his tainted meat-eaters did with innocents and strangers.

 

I agree that Abraham and Eugene would be more believable or interesting if they had some charisma/smarts about them. They're pretty much Muscle and...Blargh. I think they're hiding something though, although I don't know what or why. And if so, my money's on Rosita to be the secret boss of them; because so far she's the only one who gave me the impression that there could be more about her.

 

I don't like kids and teenagers and protagonists being parents on TV, but I find myself loving Carl and Judith, and Rick and Judith, and pretty much anyone and Judith. It's like the little ounce of badass sweetness that makes the bitter bleak world palatable to me.

So yeah, in my head canon, Judith cried to taunt the Termites knowing that Daddy would take care of them, because she's just that badass. I hope she lives; I can't wait for the moment when she'll start dispatching Walkers with a spoon and be just like her badass hot dad, little badass bro (love Carl) and awesome badass future stepmom - and yes, I love Rick/ Michonne even more than Michonne/her katana, sorry not sorry.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Happy Harpy

[ghoulina]

I will third this spec. I thought it was really interesting that, when they were all huddled in Fr. Gabriel's office, the camera showed Eugene reading that placard that basically said "maybe don't take advantage of people's stupidity" and looking pretty guilty. I get the feeling his lie maybe spun out of control and he's tried to back away from it a few times but doesn't have the courage to come right out and say it's all a yarn. And Eugene and Rosita have their own doubts, but are afraid to ask for the truth.

 

 

Absolutely agree with this. Eugene has tried several times to delay the trek to DC. I firmly believe he intentionally shot up the gas tank on their truck last season. Then it was he who insisted they go back and help Glenn. Now in this recent episode we have him sitting in the pew, refusing to move until Abe gets that "mom tone" with him. He does not look the slightest bit happy about going. 

 

I could totally see him creating some lie in a situation of panic, hoping it would save his ass. And now the lie has just spun more and more out of control. He doesnt' know how to stop it. He wants to come clean, but he's afraid of what will happen when he does. 
 

I think they already did that when the walker came after them on the railroad tracks and Tyreese balked and Carol had to give him the baby and go kill it even though it took her to the ground,

 

Mmmmhmmm. That's the ironic thing. Tyrese is probably the most physically capable person in CDB, but he just does not have what it takes mentally to deal with this world. Then you have Carol, who has really grown and developed the mental strength that you doe need - but she definitely lacks a bit physically. She is determined and brave and smart, but she's a petite woman. And sometimes there are things that are just going to be hard for her. That's the second time we've seen her taken down while stabbing a walker, which could potentially be dangerous to her. I just need Tyrese to move past his reluctance, even though I think I understand why - because it could be a real detriment to the group. 

 

I still think he was working with the cannibals. If he "collected" people for them, they allowed him to live. He would leave some kind of marker so they would know there were new victims (the scarlet A on the church?). Someone who survived the collection process left the "you'll burn" message.

 

That "A" was only left there the night that the Termites brought Bob back. I did entertain the idea of the Hipsters working with Father Pee Pants for a bit. But I think if that was the case, Gareth would have said something more personal during his naming names ("You named names!" ) in the church. I was waiting for that. Now I've kind of abandoned that theory. 

[kikismom]

 

 

Ha! I loved that review, thanks for sharing. And it reminded me that when Father Pee-Pants (LOVE THIS.)  was making his grand confession and everyone was just standing there, I was thinking, "Really? That's all you did?"  and wondering if someone was going to pipe up, "Well, Father, if it makes you feel any better, this one time, in Woodbury..." and the whole episode would devolve into a "You think THAT's bad, wait 'till you hear this..." Round-Robin confessional dealio.

 

Father Gabriel, sobbing into his hands, looks up to see Rick and Michonne and Carl rolling in the aisles: "Hey, remember that hitchhiker guy?" "Yeah first he was like this" (hopeful smile) "then he was like this---wahhwahhwahh! Snort!" "Ha! And then we like burned rubber on him like twice?! hahahah!" "Wait! Wait, Father Gabriel, you haven't even heard the best part---on the way back, we're looking--oh I can't! It's too funny! Bwahahaha!"  All high-five each other.

[GodsBeloved]

I think they already did that when the walker came after them on the railroad tracks and Tyreese balked and Carol had to give him the baby and go kill it even though it took her to the ground,

The way it was played, I thought one would hold Judith while the other killed the walker. Had Carol kept Judith and Tyreese went to kill the walker, I don't think anyone would say Carol left Tyreese on his own.

 

Plus Carol is very capable of taking on a single walker so it wasn't as if Tyreese stood by and let an inept person handle the walker.

Edited October 28, 2014 by GodsBeloved

[Spartan Girl]

Watching the Termites get their comeuppance was almost as sweet as Todd's death on Breaking Bad.  Couldn't help but think of how Michonne told the governor she was going to kill him with her sword when Rick took out his machete.  Sweet sweet satisfaction.

 

RIP Bob.  Your "TAINTED MEAT" was nothing short of awesome.

[ghoulina]

I thought Gareth's pleas for his life said so much about his character and how seriously devoid of empathy he was.  How he really did not understand that there was good left in people, and people are making a choice every day to remain human and decent.  Did not occur to him that his choices were unreasonable at all.  First his argument as others have noted, that "Hey, we'll never cross paths again. Promise."  Like the only problem that Rick had with him (even if he trusted that promise) was that he was a direct threat to himself and his family.

 

So agree with this. It was really disturbing how Gareth just did not see how wrong what they did was. He kept trying to TALK to people about it, make excuses....as if people would say, "Oh, you were raped and tortured? Oh okay, we get it. You're free to go". He thought it he just explained that it wasn't personal, just what they HAD to do, that people would get it? He was crazy. 

 

So yeah, in my head canon, Judith cried to taunt the Termites knowing that Daddy would take care of them, because she's just that badass.

 

Haha, yes! She can't talk yet, but her cry was totally - "Come and get it, bitches!"

Was this when they still had Judith? If so and I am remembering correctly, Carol had Judith and then passed her to Tyreese. The way it was played, I thought one would hold Judith while the other killed the walker. Had Carol kept Judith and Tyreese went to kill the walker, I don't think anyone would say Carol left Tyreese on his own.

 

I'd need to rewatch to know for sure, but the way I remember it was that Carol had the baby. They say the walker and Ty made a face like he wasn't ready yet, or even SAID something to that effect. So Carol, annoyed, hands off the baby to take care of business. 

[kj4ever]

I will third this spec. I thought it was really interesting that, when they were all huddled in Fr. Gabriel's office, the camera showed Eugene reading that placard that basically said "maybe don't take advantage of people's stupidity" and looking pretty guilty. I get the feeling his lie maybe spun out of control and he's tried to back away from it a few times but doesn't have the courage to come right out and say it's all a yarn. And Eugene and Rosita have their own doubts, but are afraid to ask for the truth.

 

This is a minor point, but if you mean the tattooed "we're the same!!" guy, we saw him get attacked by a zombie.

I actually thought for a second Eugene was going to spill it that he had been lying this whole time.

[PunkyMouse]

Otherwise, it just makes no sense to be huddling alone in the church afraid of your own parishioners. If you think about it. I really do try not to overthink these things, because it ruins the show for me.

What makes no sense to me is what he was doing in the church in the first place. He said he locked the doors every night. I assumed that meant he locked them before he went home for the day. He doesn't live there. It's not his house. He said that it was so early in the morning when people started coming, but what was he doing there that early in the morning?

[AngelaHunter]

I see Abraham as a career soldier with a "just following orders" mentality. He has to have a mission and he'll see it through, no matter how illogical it might be and no matter the consequences.

[henripootel]

And it reminded me that when Father Pee-Pants (LOVE THIS.)

Credit Mrs. Pootel, who asked 'How did Father Pee-Pants there survive even five seconds with his first zombie? He's up to something.'

Edited October 28, 2014 by henripootel

[kikismom]

Was this when they still had Judith? If so and I am remembering correctly, Carol had Judith and then passed her to Tyreese. The way it was played, I thought one would hold Judith while the other killed the walker. Had Carol kept Judith and Tyreese went to kill the walker, I don't think anyone would say Carol left Tyreese on his own.

 

Plus Carol is very capable of taking on a single walker so it wasn't as if Tyreese stood by and let an inept person handle the walker.

Exactly, Carol had to hand the baby to Tyreese when he was free to do it because he wouldn't.There was no 'one would hold Judith while the other killed the walker', I'm afraid no matter who held Judith, Carol had to kill the walker. Tyrees is just as capable; there's no reason for him to keep making her do the dirty work.

 

I'd need to rewatch to know for sure, but the way I remember it was that Carol had the baby. They say the walker and Ty made a face like he wasn't ready yet, or even SAID something to that effect. So Carol, annoyed, hands off the baby to take care of business. 

Yes, Tyreese said I'm not ready yet and Carol said you're going to have to make yourself do it whether you're ready or not.

Edited October 28, 2014 by kikismom

[bosawks]

One of the main factors in Christianity is repentance and the idea that who you were yesterday doesn't have to dictate who you are today.  Father Gabriel can certainly make the mistake (or the willful decision, fueled by terror) 1 1/2 years ago to save his own life at the expense of his congregation and believe that the House of the Lord shouldn't be a place where you murder people.  It's not like he popped a round off in someone's head 2 seconds earlier and then turned around and said that.  I think he was just shocked.  Now, that being said, even Jesus turned up in the temple when he needed to.  Get with the program, Gabriel.

 

No sin is beyond forgiveness if it is followed by true penitence-K.S. LaTourette

 

Of course that begs the question of what does it mean to be truly penitent.  Does Gabriel regret the sin of inaction when action means his possible death.  Does he regret being a "coward" or does he regret being alone.  What is he actually sorry for?  Would he in fact risk his safety for the greater good of the group.  What would he do if inaction equals his life and action equals his death but the life of others.  Being haunted and regretful is not the same as being repentant.

 

But what do I know I've always been a "sin in haste repent at leisure" kinda girl......

[LilySilver]

I see Abraham as a career soldier with a "just following orders" mentality. He has to have a mission and he'll see it through, no matter how illogical it might be and no matter the consequences.

Or maybe it's not Eugene's story at all.  Maybe it's the group's (the three stooges') story to get them through.  They concocted a cover story to make it more likely that people would help them along, and to give them an excuse to get out of Dodge whenever it was best for them... So Abe's role is the military hero, the protector and leader, and Eugene's role is the sacred genius.

 

No, I don't really think that's the case, but at least it would explain some of the cringe-worthy, silly lines the writers have created for these hapless three.  (As someone noted above "Extract his ass.."  Really?  Sounds vaguely dirty.  And took me completely out of the scene.) Every time I try to give these three a chance they show up with hoop earrings or neon hair or ridiculously unbelievably cheesy lines.

 

And no one in our battle-hardened group of survivors (all of what I would measure as above-average intelligence) does anything but lap it up?  This will grate on me probably worse than the Karvid storyline.  Ugh.  And knowing in my gut that it's going to be a major storyline this season (not a spoiler, just my opinion because...the Governor who would not go away...) makes me weary.

Edited October 28, 2014 by LilySilver

[eljaykid]

Maybe I'm a worse person than I thought, but I wanted someone to pick up Gareth's fingers and make him eat them.  That would have sent this episode to a great place for me.

[GodsBeloved]

I'd need to rewatch to know for sure, but the way I remember it was that Carol had the baby. They say the walker and Ty made a face like he wasn't ready yet, or even SAID something to that effect. So Carol, annoyed, hands off the baby to take care of business. 

That's how I remember it. As I mentioned before, it played like only one would handle the walker and Carol was just as capable as Tyreese in that situation.

 

Sorry if this has been asked and answered but what did Rick say to Tyreese when Tyreese was digging that grave?

[kikismom]

Maybe I'm a worse person than I thought, but I wanted someone to pick up Gareth's fingers and make him eat them.  That would have sent this episode to a great place for me.

I like finger sandwiches.

 

 

Sorry if this has been asked and answered but what did Rick say to Tyreese when Tyreese was digging that grave?

Rick asked how the journey to Terminus was and Tyreese said 'it killed me' and Rick said 'No, it didn't.'

[GreyBunny]

What makes no sense to me is what he was doing in the church in the first place. He said he locked the doors every night. I assumed that meant he locked them before he went home for the day. He doesn't live there. It's not his house. He said that it was so early in the morning when people started coming, but what was he doing there that early in the morning?

 

I'm guessing it was a Sunday and he probably had to to prepare for an early service and to set up for the food drive.  If church started at 8 or 8:30 he probably got there around 6:30 or 7.  I can imagine scared congregants rushing to get there earlier than usual.

It's my hypothesis that Father Gabriel himself carved the "you will burn in hell" on the side of the church during one of his moments of guilt

Edited October 28, 2014 by GreyBunny

[nodorothyparker]

And no one in our battle-hardened group of survivors (all of what I would measure as above-average intelligence) lap it up?

 

I've had to accept that these are comic book characters and are just going to be all comicy, but this is what really grates for me too.  Time and time again, we've seen Rick play detective to scent out when something didn't add up or somebody was trying to feed them crap.  He figured out the deal with Terminus on the basis of a watch chain, back pack, and poncho.  He knew the Philly guys in the bar were up to no good before he ever saw them draw the gun.  He deduced that Shane was going to kill him before he ever made a move and that Carol killed Karvid on half a handprint.  Yet we're really expected to believe that he's buying this hook, line, and sinker and is willing to drag everyone into a heavily populated and thus likely heavily overrun area?  When he's got two kids to keep safe, one of whom he just got back after believing he lost her?

 

I get the idea that they need something to hope for or a mission to focus on rather than just continue to aimlessly wander the same part of Georgia.  But it defies credibility that they heard two minutes of Abraham's ridiculous rah-rah speech in the church and said "sure let's go" instead of seriously questioning the specifics of just how this trip is supposed to play out and how recent their information on their target area is. It's making Rick and every one of our survivors look dumb purely for plot reasons.

[sidekickgirl]

I'm sure I had the same look on my face as Maggie/Glenn/Tyreese, because the brutality was gross.  However, I'm totally cool with not only those Termites being killed, but with the manner in which they were killed.  They slaughtered and ate healthy human beings - that is just not okay. And were unapologetic about it - Gareth was a smarmy bastard and I was happy to see him on the receiving end of Rick's red handled machete.

 

I was never a fan of Bob (I'm not sure if it was the character or the actors portrayal) so his exit was sad, but not bothersome.  I do want Beth back, I'm not sure why, but I'd like to at least have an end cap on her story line.  Hope we get that next week.  I also hope she asks where her sister is - because apparently Maggie has forgotten she has one.

 

Who is in the woods? I have no idea, and I betcha we have to wait the extra week to find out. 

 

In this age of Netflix and binge watching, cliffhangers are the devils work.

[GodsBeloved]

Exactly, Carol had to hand the baby to Tyreese when he was free to do it because he wouldn't.There was no 'one would hold Judith while the other killed the walker', I'm afraid no matter who held Judith, Carol had to kill the walker. Tyrees is just as capable; there's no reason for him to keep making her do the dirty work

I'm not arguing against any of this. This incident was used as an example of Tyreese not killing walkers because they weren't attacking him and then leaving someone on their own to deal with the threat. Looking back at my post

 

If this is the case, I hope the writers show Tyreese sitting on his hands and leaving someone on their own to fight off walkers.

 

Considering Tyreese risked his life to save Judith, it would be a shock if he refused to help someone (kill walkers) when he is the only help available.

 

 

I wasn't clear. The above was meant to convey a scenario where Tyreese refused to jump in and help someone who was at a disadvantage against walkers. Now if you are going to say Carol was at a disadvantage with the single walker when she fell to the ground with, I don't share that perspective. Season 1 Carol sure. This Carol? Falling to the ground with a single walker is child's play for her.

 

Rick asked how the journey to Terminus was and Tyreese said 'it killed me' and Rick said 'No, it didn't.'

Thanks

Edited October 28, 2014 by GodsBeloved

[ghoulina]

What makes no sense to me is what he was doing in the church in the first place. He said he locked the doors every night. I assumed that meant he locked them before he went home for the day. He doesn't live there. It's not his house. He said that it was so early in the morning when people started coming, but what was he doing there that early in the morning?

 

My guess is that as soon as he knew things were going south he headed for the church - since he knew all the food was there. And maybe the people didn't start showing up until a few days later? But yea, the story does have quite a few holes in it. 

 

The above was meant to convey a scenario where Tyreese refused to jump in and help someone who was at a disadvantage against walkers. Now if you are going to say Carol was at a disadvantage with the single walker when she fell to the ground with, I don't share that perspective. Season 1 Carol sure. This Carol? Falling to the ground with a single walker is child's play for her.

 

I wouldn't say Carol is at a disadvantage. But she is definitely smaller and less powerful than Tyrese. She is using a knife for her weapon, which forces you to get pretty close. And being on the petite side, she doesn't always have the upper body strength to thrust the knife in and pull it back out quickly. It can get stuck, which is what we saw here - and also last season when Rick had to come to her aid outside the prison. It reminds me of when I try to cut a watermelon. I'm always getting the knife stuck and really having to yank to get it back out. 

 

Also, the fact that she was initially holding the baby and had to pass her off to Tyrese and then kill the walker is bothersome. It was okay then, but you could be wasting precious seconds. I'd like to say that if the situation was really REALLY dire Ty would step and do what he has to do. But I just can't be sure. I like Tyrese, and I commend him for rescuing the three girls from the prison and taking such good care of them on the road. He made them feel safe and was very kind to them. But he does have a tendency to hesitate, to want to ponder - and sometimes that can get you killed. 

[Nashville]

I liked less the self-righteous "the House of the Lord", although it was more of an ingrained reaction imo, a kind of automatism.

Well... to be fair, this church isn't just a sanctuary, in the normally accepted sense. It's been his personal sanctuary from the horrors outside for the past several months. Keeping the doors locked did more than keep him and a sizable food stash safe inside; it kept the ZA - and the associated death and messiness and loss of humanity - OUT THERE. Except now it isn't OUT THERE any more; it's splattered all over the pews and walls, and laying in bloody macheted heaps on the floor. So I can see Prayin' Gabe suffering from a bit of culture shock.

Unless something deeply changes him, and I'm not sure that people can change that much, he's going to run and hide any time there's danger. If anyone from the group expects otherwise and trusts him not to, it'll be on them.

Why on earth would anybody expect PG to do anything other than cower in a corner and piss his pants? Such an expectation would fly square in the face of everything he's shown the Rickrollers to date.

My guess is that as soon as he knew things were going south he headed for the church - since he knew all the food was there. And maybe the people didn't start showing up until a few days later? But yea, the story does have quite a few holes in it. 

My personal guess is, PG and the church organist were shacked up after hours while he showed her a new tune to play on his organ. And she took off later, after seeing his abject cowardice when his congregation did their best imitation of a moveable feast. Wouldn't surprise me a bit if it was she would carved the "BURN IN HELL" - although that may not have had anything to do with the ZA. More like the ecclesiastical version of keying a guy's car after a shitty date.*

* Not really. But it was fun to write. ;>

[mightysparrow]

I don't think Carol is in the woods with Daryl either. I think that it's Daryl and Carol's own personal "No Child Left Behind" plan and Daryl has some random kid from the hospital while Carol stayed behind to nurse Beth who is suffering from the effects of whatever wad done to her by the creepy doctor guy.

Childless Carol gets to mother someone again and motherless Beth is cared for one last time before quietly succumbing to her ailments. Hershel comes to escort Beth to Heaven and Carol lovingly puts a knife in Beth's temple à la Tyrese so she won't turn.

Okay that last part was just my wishful thinking.

 

Oh, if Carol is the one to put Beth down, there will be rioting in the fandom.  It will not be pretty.

[Nutjob]

 

Kudos to Andrew Lincoln for this scene - he isn't the most dynamic of actors but he nailed that scene to the door.  If I'd been Andrew West, I might have peed a little.

Agreed. There's also something Lincoln has developed, a little tic, for the character that I love. Whenever he gets angry and Stuff Is About To Go Down, he tilts his head slightly to one side. He did it when he was at the trough of doom at Terminus, when the others were being slaughtered, and then again this episode when Rick tells Gareth that they didn't want to waste their bullets.

[RedHackle]

But if the people at the hospital cut both of Beth's legs off and Carol came out of the woods pushing Beth on a little skateboard it would be awesome

 

(Best Hawkeye voice) you and I have a very different idea of awesome.   I'm not wild about Beth either, but damn, kikismom.  :D

 

As for the sneak peak and preview we got of next week  (not sure it I'm allowed to speculate here - others have, but if I'm breaking a rule I'll happily edit out.)  Anyway, I thought in the preview, we heard Daryl say VO something about Beth having lost her grasp on reality. (Can't remember his exact words.)  That would indicate to me she's not in a hospital at all, but that this is all in her head.  So possibly that is her Daryl has with him?

 

I'm still holding out hope for it being Morgan.  I'd love it the most if it was Morgan, Carol and Beth, but I don't see Morgan cozying up to Daryl as he doesn't know him from Adam.  Even though the quick peep we got of Morgan shows him to be looking healthy and relatively lucid-looking, that doesn't mean he's likely to start trusting strangers. 

 

Just my thought - haven't read any of the graphic novels so not sure what's going to happen.  Whee! 

 

This season has been so phenomenal so far that it gives me hope for every other show I watch, even those that have clearly jumped the shark. But WD had some lesser seasons and has come back stronger than ever.  This should be required viewing for every show runner - this is how you save a franchise.

[40Love]

My personal guess is, PG and the church organist were shacked up after hours while he showed her a new tune to play on his organ. And she took off later, after seeing his abject cowardice when his congregation did their best imitation of a moveable feast.

 

LOL! Yeah... your scenario makes much more sense... cuz his story is some major B.S. The part of his story that makes me go "huh?" is where he says it was "so early, just so early"! Like really? But, after reading this theory, I'm thinking maybe his terrified congregation came a knockin'... while he and his honey were in the church rockin'! 

[kikismom]

And watch out for this tonight:

 

http://img.pandawhale.com/87377-Rick-leans-forward-shits-about-LSrt.jpeg

 

 

Agreed. There's also something Lincoln has developed, a little tic, for the character that I love. Whenever he gets angry and Stuff Is About To Go Down, he tilts his head slightly to one side. He did it when he was at the trough of doom at Terminus, when the others were being slaughtered, and then again this episode when Rick tells Gareth that they didn't want to waste their bullets.

[PunkyMouse]

My personal guess is, PG and the church organist were shacked up after hours while he showed her a new tune to play on his organ. And she took off later, after seeing his abject cowardice when his congregation did their best imitation of a moveable feast. Wouldn't surprise me a bit if it was she would carved the "BURN IN HELL" - although that may not have had anything to do with the ZA. More like the ecclesiastical version of keying a guy's car after a shitty date.*

* Not really. But it was fun to write. ;>

 

Wow. Y'all are going to hell. Look me up when you get there.

Edited October 28, 2014 by PunkyMouse

[40Love]

I don't understand why Gareth returned Bob to the church. It allowed Bob to explain to Rick & company what had happened, who they were up against and what might happen next to them. It would have made more sense for Gareth to keep Bob and go after the rest while they were unsure what was happening. I suppose Gareth could have thought he was being clever, i.e., Rick seeing Bob would outrage Rick and they would go on the attack, but that is a huge gamble given that if Rick doesn't react that way, you just gave him invaluable intel.

 

I think Gareth left Bob at the church because he was an arrogant, self-satisfied asshole who had no fear of the group.  He underestimated Rick and what his reaction to leaving a half-eaten Bob at the doorstop... Gareth wanted Rick to know they were being hunted. He thought he had the upper-hand, right up until Rick blew off his fingers. Even Martin thought he could overtake Rick in the stand-off. But, sadly... to paraphrase Rick the Termites seriously didn't realize they were screwing with wrong people.

 

 

Also, it assumes that Gareth knows how many guns the group has to begin with (and that they haven't found more), can see which guns Rick and company took with them on their feint attack to the school and that those left behind haven't found new guns or are not decently armed. Because Gareth only had what, 5 people? It wouldn't take many guns to even those odds. That bugged.

 

Didn't Gareth say they had been watching the group. Rick and Daryl even discussed that they were being watched--but, Daryl couldn't find any tracks. They also asked Gabriel if he was the one tracking them. So it's not too unreasonable that Gareth made a pretty good guesstimate of how many guns the group had. I also think that's how he knew their names. They had been listening on them, watching them the whole time.

Edited October 28, 2014 by 40Love

[Boofish]

I think Gareth thought he had the makings of a joke left in the church which is why he decided to strike

 

A priest, a baby, a preteen boy, a man with one leg and a zombie bite, Teddy Ruxpin (Tyrese), Hoops (Rosita) and a My Buddy doll (Eugene) all walk into a bar .... 

 

I mean seriously, had Rick not come back, the Starbucks Night Crew had the odds in their favor. The only capable person at the church was Carl

[Nashville]

I thought Gareth's dumping Bob on the doorstep was pure strategy, figuring something along the following lines:

• Gareth's dumps Bob right outside of CDB's current sanctuary.
• CDB retrieves Bob.
• BobbyQ tearfully recounts his tale of well-done woe, including the location of Terminus Lite.
• An incensed Rick&Co. charges off to the school with half the party and most of the guns - leaving the weaker members behind in the "security" of the church.
• Gareth&Co. slide in for the slaughter of the spring lambs.
• R&Co get to the school, fight their way through the encircling walker horde (possibly losing a couple of people and a not inconsiderable amount of ammo in the process), realize they've been duped, and haul ass back to the church.
• G&Co either ambush them on the way, or greet them at the door with automatic weapons and a plate of Julienned Judith.
• And if R&Co didn't fall for it? Simple. They'll probably either stay at the church, or run. If they stay, torch the church and capture/kill them as they come out. If they run, ambush them on the road in the dark.

Gareth, however, fell into a common strategic trap - assuming your opponents will cooperate with your plan, and limit their responses to the options you've envisioned. Gareth&Co was counting on Rick thinking two moves ahead; unfortunately for Gareth&Co, however, Rick was already on Move 4. Which is why Gareth is dead AND unable to smoke a cigarette right-handed.

[Amatria]

I know who comes out of the woods with Daryl. I won't spoil it but there was a commercial during the Talking Dead that accidentally showed it. It was during a Walking Dead app commercial or something. I have no idea why nobody else saw it. It was only a second so there may be additional people than what was shown.

[henripootel]

Agreed. There's also something Lincoln has developed, a little tic, for the character that I love. Whenever he gets angry and Stuff Is About To Go Down, he tilts his head slightly to one side.

He'd be so much less effective if he was trying to steel himself for brutality or subsumed in rage. But he's not.  He's just composed and focused, calm even.  That's what death looks like, Gareth, glad you got to see it.

[lulee]

I know who comes out of the woods with Daryl. I won't spoil it but there was a commercial during the Talking Dead that accidentally showed it. It was during a Walking Dead app commercial or something. I have no idea why nobody else saw it. It was only a second so there may be additional people than what was shown.

Darn it! It was probably when I went to the basement to get laundry.

Is it Sunday yet?

[Lyndy]

I think Gareth thought he had the makings of a joke left in the church which is why he decided to strike

 

A priest, a baby, a preteen boy, a man with one leg and a zombie bite, Teddy Ruxpin (Tyrese), Hoops (Rosita) and a My Buddy doll (Eugene) all walk into a bar .... 

 

I mean seriously, had Rick not come back, the Starbucks Night Crew had the odds in their favor. The only capable person at the church was Carl

I love everything about this post. They were totally the Starbucks Night Crew! Also, Tyreese and Eugene are pretty much Teddy Ruxpin and a My Buddy doll from now on.

 

I still find it weird that -- of the crew staying behind at the church just before the bloodbath -- Carl was the muscle. Remember when Carl was little more than walker bait? Like, really dumb walker bait? I kind of love him now.

[editorgrrl]

I still find it weird that -- of the crew staying behind at the church just before the bloodbath -- Carl was the muscle. Remember when Carl was little more than walker bait? Like, really dumb walker bait? I kind of love him now.

 

Remember the "Dammit, Carl!" era? I almost yelled "Dammit, Judith!" when she cried.

[AngelaHunter]

Quote

Father Gabriel, sobbing into his hands, looks up to see Rick and Michonne and Carl rolling in the aisles: "Hey, remember that hitchhiker guy?" "Yeah first he was like this" (hopeful smile) "then he was like this---wahhwahhwahh! Snort!" "Ha! And then we like burned rubber on him like twice?! hahahah!" "Wait! Wait, Father Gabriel, you haven't even heard the best part---on the way back, we're looking--oh I can't! It's too funny! Bwahahaha!"  All high-five each other.

 

So much this!

 

Rick: "There was this guy in the prison? Tomas? I told him "Shit happens" while he stood there like an idiot staring at me and then I.." *Holds sides during laughing fit* "..I just can't. This shit just cracks me up too much! You tell 'em Tyreese!....but wait! HIs little friend? I locked him out with a bunch of walkers and told him....get this..."YOU BETTER RUN!" Haw haw haw!!!!"

[ghoulina]

I know who comes out of the woods with Daryl. I won't spoil it but there was a commercial during the Talking Dead that accidentally showed it. It was during a Walking Dead app commercial or something. I have no idea why nobody else saw it. It was only a second so there may be additional people than what was shown.

 

I still have TTD on my DVR. I am contemplating trying to sniff it out. I generally try to stay spoiler free, but you are tempting me!

[Nashville]

Remember the "Dammit, Carl!" era? I almost yelled "Dammit, Judith!" when she cried.

My "STAY IN THE HOUSE CARL" T-shirt is still one of my favorites.

[DropTheSoap]

Amongst the things that bug about Father Pee-Pants...most of which have already been said...who's his dry cleaner? Two years into the ZA, and the guy's walking around in pretty fresh-looking duds. Something ain't right.

[chabelisaywow]

When Carl was tapping his gun, it reminded me of the "Cell Block Tango" scene from Chicago. It would have been nice if Carl had come out after the massacre softly singing : "he had it coming, he had it coming, he only had himself to blame, if you had seen it, if you had been there, I betcha you would have done the same..."

 

 

Then Rick, calmly tells the horrified onlookers

"Then he ran into my knife

He ran into my knife ten times"

...with his head

Edited October 28, 2014 by chabelisaywow

[AngelaHunter]

Quote

My "STAY IN THE HOUSE CARL" T-shirt is still one of my favorites.

 

I want this one!

 

http://i.imgur.com/mpvo4TX.jpg

[peach]

Then Rick, calmly tells the horrified onlookers

"Then he ran into my knife

He ran into my knife ten times"

...with his head

I really did LOL.

 

I guess MY ticket to hell is that I kind of wanted it to be Carl to take down Gareth.  Yeah, that kid you threatened to gun down in the train yard?  He's behind door #1.  BLAM!  At least one to the knee cap so Dad could finish him off.