S01.E05: We're Not Friends

[wanderingstar]

I've been feeling this way for the past few episodes, but last night confirmed it for me: I like Bonnie. Her "Bitch please" to Frank cracked me up. And I love her frosty glares. Can't wait to see what crazy lies beneath her layers.

[ToukieSmith]

 

Also, if Annalise is supposed to be a strong, powerful woman, why oh why Shonda, do you make her such a sap when it comes to the men in her life? OK, rant over. I'll probably watch next week only because I want to see what happens with the overall murder mystery, but not because this is a "TGIT" show.

Shonda writes all of her female leads as saps when it come to men.

[C0mputerGeek]

I can do without seeing the coin toss and the spinning cheerleader ever again. Here is hoping that ABC soon changes the, "Previously on How To Get Away with Murder."

 

Interesting that Sam and Annalise were having an affair and then got married. One of my colleagues met her husband this way. They were both engaged to other people when they met. The two of them have been married for a while. She did admit that there was lots of insecurity in the beginning due to the way they got together.

 

Wes is quite pressed about Rebecca. I am interested in learning more of his backstory. My guess is that he too grew up poor and was unjustly accused of something.

I would really like more backstory about Laurel and Frank too.

 

Curious that Annalise is sharp enough to figure out that Bonnie sold Nate out (and that Nate was protecting Laurel), but not that someone might recognize the wallpaper. The interview between Sam and Rebecca should have taken place someplace other than Sam's home. Also, why does't Annalise's office had a bathroom? I would not want clients going upstairs in my home to pee.

 

Connor seems to enjoy antagonizing Michaela more than anyone else. I hope this is not a foreshadowing of sexual tension between the two of them.

 

I wonder why Asher was not with the 4 of them when Sam was killed, and I wonder how all 4 of them killed Sam.

 

So Rebecca bailed. I guess that means her bail money is forfeit. Who is going to be on hock for the rest of the $90,000?

 

Can someone who is knowledgeable about law explain the trial scene involving the blog.  The witness remembered the song from the defendant's performance at the talent show.  Annalise got the witness to confirm the date of the talent show and the lyrics.  And then because the kid posted the lyrics on his blog before performing them, that somehow made the blog admissable evidence?  But if the witness never read the blog, how could that make the blog evidence?  I mean, why didn't the prosecutor just argue the witness remembered the lyrics from a memorable performance.

This show resembles the actual law about as much as the zit on my chin resembles Mount Everest.

 

I guess it's possible to find 12 people in a big city that have never seen an episode of LA Law, Law & Order, Judging Amy, etc or multiple movies where jury nullification was a plot point.  I would think in this day and age, most adults already know the concept.

I have never heard of jury nullification.

[PrincessTT]

When Annalise first asked Sam if he was sleeping with Lila a few episodes ago, she said that it wouldn't be the first time he had slept with one of his students... At the time I took it to mean that he had cheated on her before, but now I'm wondering if she was his student back when they first got together.

[Happytobehere]

Add me to the list of those who think Bonnie killed Lila. I find the thought that Bonnie could be Sam's ex-wife and Annalise keeps her around out of guilt fascinating.

I'm am still leaning towards Michaela killing Sam in self-defense for an attempted sexual assault. They continue to focus on her near-breakdown reaction. This is being done for a reason and Sam keeps coming across as slimy. Although it could be a red-herring. What could Annalise have seen in this guy.

I dislike Wes and Rebecca more with each passing week.

Annalise should just leave Nate alone. Deranged ex-lover is not a good look for her.

[theatremouse]

he said that it wouldn't be the first time he had slept with one of his students... At the time I took it to mean that he had cheated on her before, but now I'm wondering if she was his student back when they first got together.

At the moment, I'm under the impression it's both.

 

I also don't think Bonnie is old enough to be wife #1.

[Neurochick]

Also, if Annalise is supposed to be a strong, powerful woman, why oh why Shonda, do you make her such a sap when it comes to the men in her life?

 

 

This is one thing I find to be sadly true.  Many strong, powerful women are fools when it comes to love.  So many of them marry sorry ass men.  

[wanderingstar]

When Annalise first asked Sam if he was sleeping with Lila a few episodes ago, she said that it wouldn't be the first time he had slept with one of his students... At the time I took it to mean that he had cheated on her before, but now I'm wondering if she was his student back when they first got together.

 

 

I hadn't even thought of that, but it'd certainly add some more layers of fucked-uped-ness to that marriage.

[helloagain]

I am so close to giving up on this show. I can't even be bothered to know or even care about half the interns names. I really don't feel anything for Rebecca or Wes, or Annalise's husband. How good of a lawyer is Annalise if her interns save the day in every trial, and she doesn't have a law office outside of her home? Seems weird, and only used as a plot device so Rebecca could recognize the wall paper behind whats-his-names schlong. I hate the flash-forwards or whatever the "night of the bonfire" is. Also, if Annalise is supposed to be a strong, powerful woman, why oh why Shonda, do you make her such a sap when it comes to the men in her life? OK, rant over. I'll probably watch next week only because I want to see what happens with the overall murder mystery, but not because this is a "TGIT" show.

 

Word to ALL of this.  I find myself not caring about ANY of these people.  I'm even beginning to think that Matt McGorry (I guess his name is Asher on this show?) is a douche IRL, and that is based solely on his character in this series.  I love him on OITNB, and I follow him on Facebook.  I don't care about Laurel and Frank, or the guy, who I guess is her boyf, that she was fucking in the lab room.  I don't care about Michaela, or Connor, or Wes, or Rebecca (ok so I know their names but only because of posts here and my putting 2+2 together), or really even Annalise, her husband and ex-lover.  All I really want to know is who killed Lila, and who killed Annalise's husband and why.  I am always seasons behind on the good shows (Breaking Bad, the Walking Dead, Mad Men), so here I thought I could get in on a good show from the start, and I was dead (no pun intended) wrong. 

[shapeshifter]

...Deranged ex-lover is not a good look for her.

Not on this show. This show's tone is somewhere between Castle and SVU. The character of Annalise as played by Viola Davis belongs on a show like True Detective.

[mikem]

I was really sure that, after the kid only got probation, that there would be some twist that he and his mom really made up the whole abuse thing.  Last week, I was sure that there would be some end twist to the case, and that didn't happen either.  The first couple of cases of the week were kind of interesting, but these last couple were too straightforward for such a twisty show.

 

It's an interesting idea that Bonnie could be Sam's ex-wife, but I don't think it will pan out.  Annelise might feel guilty enough to offer her a job, but there's no first wife on earth who would take that offer.

 

Add me to those who are tired of seeing the same bits from the bonfire night over and over again.  Binge-watching this show in a marathon would be infuriating.

 

Interesting that Laurel called herself a murderer, rather than an accessory to murder.  I wonder if she thinks all of them are murderers, or if that's a clue as to who actually killed Sam.

Edited October 25, 2014 by mikem

[truthaboutluv]

I'm a little baffled how the leap was made to Bonnie being Sam's first wife. Like nothing we've seen on the show hints at that in my opinion and it just makes no sense. I honestly never even entertained that thought after the reveal that Sam was married when he and Annalise first got together and was baffled when I saw many comments online referencing the possibility. Frank's and Annalise's comments to Bonnie both suggest more of a "we know you have a thing for him but we'll all pretend like it isn't obvious." Bonnie and Sam's scene when she told him Annalise took Rebecca on as a client was what convinced me that Bonnie has a thing for Sam but nothing has happened between them. There's a familiarity on his part towards her but no tension. I don't know I just don't see it at all and if they try to come with that just for shock value, that's when I'll be out just like I quit Scandal because nothing about it would make sense.

Edited October 25, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[Skyline]

The actress who plays Laurel reminds me of Neve Campbell.

[Turkish]

 

I also don't think Bonnie is old enough to be wife #1.

I don't know how old Bonnie is supposed to be on the show but Liza Weil is 37 so I don't think it's too out of the realm of possibility if we are to believe the character is the same age as the actress. That said, Weil tends to always play younger than she is. I haven't made up my mind on the ex-wife theory yet. I do think it is very likely that she might have at least slept with him. There is no way that Annalise and Lisa were Sam's only affairs. I bet he's slept with many a student. 

[PrincessTT]

Bonnie intrigues me. If it was simply a case of her desperately wanting Sam then why hasn't she told him about Annalise's affair with Nate? That's one of the reason's why I don't think that she's the first wife either... Why would the first wife stick around to work for the new wife? And then why would she keep the new wife's affair a secret? 

[Turkish]

Bonnie intrigues me. If it was simply a case of her desperately wanting Sam then why hasn't she told him about Annalise's affair with Nate? That's one of the reason's why I don't think that she's the first wife either... Why would the first wife stick around to work for the new wife? And then why would she keep the new wife's affair a secret? 

There is definitely a whole other side to Bonnie that hasn't been explored yet. I felt it in her scene with Annalise. I've noticed that Bonnie has no problem being assertive or abrasive with other characters but with Annalise she was timid, like she's afraid of her. Why is she is scared of Annalise? It can't just be because of Sam. IMO, Annalise isn't all that terrifying. It's not like she's Olivia Pope and has any real power or influence. And like others I question just how good of a lawyer she even is considering that Bonnie and the law students seem to be doing most of the scheming and grunt work for her. Not to mention the fact that Bonnie seems to know more of Annalise's secrets than anybody that she could expose at any time if she wanted to. So what does Annalise have on Bonnie? What is their relationship with each other that has Bonnie practically become another person around her? There has to be a reason Annalise keeps her around even though she has feelings for her husband. Bonnie must have some secrets of her own. 

[theatremouse]

I was really sure that, after the kid only got probation, that there would be some twist that he and his mom really made up the whole abuse thing.  Last week, I was sure that there would be some end twist to the case, and that didn't happen either.  The first couple of cases of the week were kind of interesting, but these last couple were too straightforward for such a twisty show.

I think the writers have sort of...shown their cards on their formula. At tleast this is my current operating theory: when the episode is heavier towards the COW, they get twisty with it. When the episode is heavy on Sam-or-Lila murders, COW is very straightforward. I'd put this episode into the latter, so I wasn't surprised there was nothing twisty. Also they seemed to be setting up Laurel's proudness of what she did with this case in relation to stuff she did the night of the murder. So if this case had turned out twisty, unless Laurel never knew, it'd be less of a "good" set up for those aspects of her character. (I'm not saying this episode actually did a good job of anything.)

 

 

 

I also don't think Bonnie is old enough to be wife #1.

I don't know how old Bonnie is supposed to be on the show but Liza Weil is 37 so I don't think it's too out of the realm of possibility if we are to believe the character is the same age as the actress.

Just to clarify: I made the "too old to be wife #1" remark in conjunction with saying I was onboard with the sort-of-implied notion that Annalise may have been Sam's student (or close to it) when they had their affair. I think it's pretty clear on the show Annalise and Sam are at least 10 years older than Bonnie, if not more. So I think in that combination of ages, Bonnie's too old to be wife #1. It'd also be very unusual (on TV) for Sam to have an affair with an older woman than his at-the-time wife. Not outside the realm of possibility, but given that he's definitely had an affair with at least one student, and depending on how you interpret the remark that it's not the first time, I think they're establishing that he goes after younger chicks. So it's all of that making me think Bonnie couldn't be first wife due to age, not because her actual character is to old to have been married to him at some point, but because I think they're skewing him as a guy who consistently goes after 20somethings as a pattern.

 

Although now I am wondering how long they've been married and how long his previous marriage was.

Edited October 25, 2014 by theatremouse

[Dean Learner]

 

Although now I am wondering how long they've been married and how long his previous marriage was.

 

It's stated by Sam in the third episode during the couples' dinner party scene that he and Annalise have been together- or at least known each other- for 20 years.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Dean Learner

[lizzieabear]

It's stated by Sam in the third episode during the couples' dinner party scene that he and Annalise have been together- or at least known each other- for 20 years.

If Annalise and Sam got together 20 years ago, Bonnie is too young to have been the first wife.   I get a one sided crush vibe from them.  I don't think they have slept together.  The scene in the kitchen when Bonnie tells Sam they took the Lila case came off as school girl talking to the football captain to me.  

[rubinia]

Really, show? Your fake Grindr app name is "Humpr?" Ugh. HE'S GAY, WE GET IT.

[helenamonster]

Interesting that Laurel called herself a murderer, rather than an accessory to murder.  I wonder if she thinks all of them are murderers, or if that's a clue as to who actually killed Sam.

 

I noticed that too, and it's leading me to further believe that this is some sort of Murder on the Orient Express situation where they all contributed, most likely unintentionally, to Sam's death.

 

Really, show? Your fake Grindr app name is "Humpr?" Ugh. HE'S GAY, WE GET IT.

 

I always get a good laugh when shows have to come up with absurd names for websites/social media/apps because they can't use the real one. Same with the phones...most of the characters are obviously using iPhones but the interface/software is wrong (and is kind of distractingly out-of-date). What a time to be alive.

 

As for Bonnie being Sam's first wife, it was just something I had speculated at because this was the first time we'd heard it mentioned, and her connection to Sam still hasn't been made clear. Did they have an affair? Is she just a stalker? They mentioned the first wife for a reason, whether it was to give viewers another side to the Annalise/Sam marriage, or maybe to possibly lay the groundwork for her introduction after we catch up to the present...I don't know, it's there for a reason, and while Bonnie being the first wife is probably a very unlikely outcome, it's not totally out of the realm of possibility, I don't think.

[KnoxForPres]

And why keep that a secret from viewers? At this point if they revealed it, even if I hadn't read speculation here, I wouldn't give a damn. I'd just think she's a loser for working with her hubs mistress.

I struggle with this show thinking it's a lot better than it is. It's more like watching Dawsons Creek than Mad Men, but I think it feels it should be grouped with the latter. Everything feels very "important" when it's mediocre actors making lame reaction shots. But as long as I view it as silly TV I do better with it.

It doesn't do a great job at the big reveals either. I don't watch tv enough to know about the penis reveal shocker and I was like "meh". I can't imagine if I had anticipated that scene all week. Also the wallpaper fell flat. I think it's the actors and writing. That stupid girl walking around incognito calling Wes about the wallpaper was so boring. And I'm a person who can get into that. I think of watching Oz (for some reason can't think of a great example) where I'd jump out of my seat and yell "Holy shit, no way!" while wishing my dog could talk about what I learned. Why can't this show produce that reaction?

Edited October 25, 2014 by KnoxForPres

[bantering]

I feel as though Bonnie needs some eye make-up...or something. I did laugh at what she said to Frank, who is become increasingly irritating to me. I think he's kind of weird....I figured a guy like that would just move on to another woman when a 24   year old blows him off, not act like a 14 year old boy (the kid from Modern Family seems to have a better handle on his crushes). 

 

I think Laurel is supposed to have nerves of steel under her reserved exterior but the interpretation of the character is still kind of dull. I do think the actress has very pretty eyes and generally a pretty face though. It's just her line delivery is so...

 

Well, it seems like Wes might be a lot less dumb than I thought. If he takes a leap of faith for Rebecca, I assume it will be because of something dumb that happens in that house on the part of Annalise and her husband. I can't really tell if Annalise is actually trying to protect her husband (like the detective seems to think) or figure him out?

Edited to add:

 

Oh, I also wanted to say -- I'd most likely hate Asher (is that his name??) in real life, but on this type of show I'm finding him rather amusing.

Edited October 26, 2014 by bantering

[Turkish]

 

I can't really tell if Annalise is actually trying to protect her husband (like the detective seems to think) or figure him out?

Probably both. I think she loves him and wants to protect him despite his philandering ways. She met him that way so it's not like she can be too judgmental about it. She knows the kind of man she married. I don't see her turning on him even as the evidence piles up that he may have had something to do with Lila's death. What I can't tell is if she genuinely took Rebecca's case because Wes' words really resonated with her and she truly wants to help or if she's just keeping Rebecca close to find out what she knows before throwing her under the bus at a later date. 

 

 

did laugh at what she said to Frank, who is become increasingly irritating to me. I think he's kind of weird....I figured a guy like that would just move on to another woman when a 24   year old blows him off, not act like a 14 year old boy (the kid from Modern Family seems to have a better handle on his crushes).

Bonnie has implied that he has a history of sleeping around with the students so I don't get why he's hung up on Laurel specifically. What makes her so different from all the other girls he's banged? He barely knows anything about her. 

Edited October 26, 2014 by Turkish

[jhlipton]

Wes + Rebecca still = zzzzzzzzzz for me. Rebecca is an incredibly unappealing character. 

 

I  find him the least interesting of the Hamsters.  I get that he's the "Special Snowflake" of this series, but nothing he does is very likeable.

 

Now I understand a little more why Wes gets even more attached to Rebecca. They know Annalise is lying and trying to protect Sam.

 

That was so, so bad.  AnnaLise had to know where the photo was taken, but she lets Rebecca go up and check for patterns.  DUMB!

The "House is the office is the house" was clearly done for plot, since it makes ZERO sense in the real world.

 

I got some creepy vibes during the argument between Sam and Annalise.  Especially when he clamped his hand over her mouth.  Not helping your case, dude.

 

I know, huh?  Thatmove was seriously f**ked up! 

The trial of the week came across to me as cliche and stereotyped.  I was hoping the twist would be that the cop/father/husband did NOT abuse his wife: that she cooked up the scheme, maybe to collect insurance money and/or go off with a lover.   

 

When they kept flashing to the cops, I thought for sure one would speak up.  If the dad was as abusive as mom and son said, at least one would know.  

[labresq]

Before finding out there was no bathroom on the first floor,

I was surprised when she told him he would be sleeping on the couch. That beautiful home only has one bedroom?

[Hava]

I already asked this in the last episode thread, but seriously--WTF is the deal with Laurel and Frank? I. don't. get. it. 

[wanderingstar]

Hava, I'd like to believe that Frank is mostly motivated to pursue Laurel because she seems resistant to him. But the show seems to be writing it - and the actor is playing it - like he's falling for her i.e., he was a cad before, but Laurel is so awesome, she'll tame him. Which is exactly the kind of stupid cliché Shonda shows subsist on.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Gillian Rosh

[bantering]

Laurel is very pretty (and I like her eye-makeup for some reason -- dark eyeliner with blue eyes is interesting to me), but her personality is so flat I don't get why Frank looks like he's going to murder someone in a bedroom if he can't have her. Because of that she doesn't bug me as much as he does -- get a grip on your angry face, Frank!

Edited October 26, 2014 by bantering

[Turtle]

There would be no basis whatsoever for a judge to bar the defendant from introducing evidence as to his state of mind and his motive for committing the killing.

 

 

Totally true, but the statement would have to be in an admissible form, such as witness/ defendant testimony or authenticated hospital records.  My understanding of the blog being excluded and then later admitted: the blog is hearsay, and so the defense would need a hearsay exception in order to admit it (I think the show ignored this step altogether).  The blog probably would fall under one of the hearsay exceptions (state of mind, contemporaneous recording), although they would have problems with authentication if the defendant wasn't going to testify.  Only if the blog satisfied one or more of the hearsay objections would the prosecution make the self-serving statements objections, because a statement being self-serving is not generally sufficient to exclude it (because really, most statements in a trial are self-serving!).  The judge probably was wrong in his ruling, but it's possible to have self-serving statements excluded if they're unduly prejudicial, especially if they are uncorroborated.  However, once the prosecution entered part of the song lyrics, which were on the blog from an earlier time than the witness had heard the song, the defense was entitled to admit the entire song.  Because the song was on the blog, I guess they considered the entire blog to be one "document", and so admission of part it required admission of all of it?  Basically, the blog constituted the defendant's statement, and after the prosecution successfully argued to exclude it from evidence, they then entered part of the statement in to evidence, and so the defense got to enter the rest of it.  It's shaky, but it almost works.  And I could be way off the mark - just my thoughts about it!

 

Also, I thought jury nullification was completely legal as long as the lawyers don't tell the jury about it.  So a juror knowing about nullification and sharing that info with the rest of the jury wouldn't be grounds for a mistrial.

 

That was weird too.  I suppose it was because she found the info during the trial?  And I think that juries don't usually talk about jury nullification; it's usually more that they just won't vote to convict despite the evidence.  I don't think jurors sit around and say "There's this thing called jury nullification..."  They just vote not guilty.  This whole part really didn't make sense. 

[Dean Learner]

 

But the show seems to be writing it - and the actor is playing it - like he's falling for her i.e., he was a cad before, but Laurel is so awesome, she'll tame him.

 

This show is such a tropestravaganza, that even the hoariest of cliches somehow work for me. I like this show in spite of itself.

 

It think it's clear they're going with beneath the jerkass lothario exterior beats the heart of a working class idealist thing with Frank, hence his attraction to do-gooder Laurel. Which, on reflection, isn't really all that different than Connor's relationship with his IT notboyfriend Oliver. Call it The Taming of the Manwhore.

 

What's interesting is whether or not Laurel is exploiting his feelings to protect herself and the co-conspirators in the coverup. This episode proved she's willing to use amoral-- even downright illegal-- means to see justice done. As the show keeps saying, Laurel and Wes have both proved to be far more icy-veined than their emotional Type-A classmates.

 

Whatever- I like Laurel and Frank and their weird, kinda cold fish chemistry.

[theatremouse]

I'd like to believe that Frank is mostly motivated to pursue Laurel because she seems resistant to him. But the show seems to be writing it - and the actor is playing it - like he's falling for her i.e., he was a cad before, but Laurel is so awesome, she'll tame him.

I may be way off, but in the most recent interactions we saw with Laurel and Frank, I got a sort of weird vibe like maybe at some point in their interaction(s?) he crossed a line. Like, initially they had consensual sex but maybe later he assaulted her, and what might seem like puppy-dogness on his part right now, and the whole "do anything" thing is him not wanting her to go to the cops (and the other trope of the abuser begging to be forgiven and seeming outwardly contrite) and so his attitude is because of that dynamic, not some cad turnaround. So if they're both trying not to go to jail (for different things), it's not so much trust between them as a Mutually Assured Destruction scenario.

Edited October 26, 2014 by theatremouse

[mikem]

 

it's leading me to further believe that this is some sort of Murder on the Orient Express situation where they all contributed, most likely unintentionally, to Sam's death

My thoughts are basically in that direction, too.  The foursome don't have any loyalty to each other (they don't even like each other), and they are all way too ego-centric to get involved in being an accessory to murder to protect someone else, even Annelise.  So they each must feel that they would be held legally responsible for Sam's murder if they don't try to cover it up.  But with Sam presumably being killed by a blow to the head from the trophy, only 1 person could be holding a trophy at any given time, and the crime does not seem to be premeditated so the others were not in on it ahead of time.  I'm puzzling through why the other 3 wouldn't turn in the actual murderer, particularly since it's 3 of them vs 1 murderer.   I'm having a hard time thinking of a scenario in which the other 3, given how selfish these characters are, wouldn't go to the police together and save themselves.  But I'm not puzzling too hard, because the actual resolution has a good chance of being really dumb.

[wanderingstar]

On re-watch, I noticed that Bonnie was definitely giving Sam the let-me-comfort-you eyes after his fight with Annalise.

 

As for Frank & Laurel, I'm totally open to the idea that my read of their relationship may be way off. I think it's a problem with the writing if it's not clear what dynamic the show's trying to convey with those two.

[Mabinogia]

...and the whole "do anything" thing is him not wanting her to go to the cops (and the other trope of the abuser begging to be forgiven and seeming outwardly contrite) and so his attitude is because of that dynamic, not some cad turnaround.

 

 

That would actually make her seem less ridiculous because she is trusting him with some potentially dangerous information, that she was in possession of the statue that night. If they figure out that was the murder weapon at some point, she is trusting him to cover up her part in a murder. I wouldn't trust that with a guy who is known to bang female students with some regularity just because he said he'd do anything for you. Or she's got a hypnotic vagina.

 

Still don't care about her either way. Even with the ep focusing on her I still feel nothing about her. She's just...there.

 

Bonnie, on the other hand, is fast becoming a favorite. I find her intriguing. Why was she stalking Sam's car? What is her relationship with him? As someone pointed out, why is she so subservient to Ana? I get that she's her boss, but it feels like more than that, more personal, especially this ep, when she was getting scolded.

[Turkish]

 

I'm having a hard time thinking of a scenario in which the other 3, given how selfish these characters are, wouldn't go to the police together and save themselves.  But I'm not puzzling too hard, because the actual resolution has a good chance of being really dumb.

Oh, it's guaranteed to be really dumb. There is no way that all of these characters aren't going to get away with it anyway, unless they plan on having a new cast next year. It will be interesting to see just how convoluted this whole thing gets before the end. I won't be bothered too much since I have many years of experience of putting up with Shonda and co.'s plot devices.

 

As for who killed Lila, that person is likely to get off too. I just don't feel any connection to Lila. She's like one of those victims who dies at the opening of a Law and Order episode. The story really isn't about them at the end of the day. It's about the killer. I don't really care if the person gets away with it because I don't care about Lila since the writers have given me no incentive to care.

 

 

As someone pointed out, why is she so subservient to Ana? I get that she's her boss, but it feels like more than that, more personal, especially this ep, when she was getting scolded.

Yes. There has to be some sort of personal story we are leading up to regarding Bonnie's tie to Annalise and/or Sam because their is a complete personality shift whenever she is in scenes with either one of those characters. Especially Annalise. 

Edited October 26, 2014 by Turkish

[Dowel Jones]

Everybody remembers Damages, right? How the opening sequence seemed to lead us down one path, only to have the rug pulled out by the end of the series when it was demonstrated that everything was through the looking glass?  Well, I can't help but think the bonfire scene and the office scene are somehow like that.  I have no clue who, if anyone, killed Sam.  but, I can assert one thing:

the coin toss

 

Those interns must be totally clueless to trust a guy with an interest in the toss to call the toss without everyone else not being able to see the result.  I don't think I want them working on my case.

[helenamonster]

My thoughts are basically in that direction, too.  The foursome don't have any loyalty to each other (they don't even like each other), and they are all way too ego-centric to get involved in being an accessory to murder to protect someone else, even Annelise.  So they each must feel that they would be held legally responsible for Sam's murder if they don't try to cover it up.  But with Sam presumably being killed by a blow to the head from the trophy, only 1 person could be holding a trophy at any given time, and the crime does not seem to be premeditated so the others were not in on it ahead of time.  I'm puzzling through why the other 3 wouldn't turn in the actual murderer, particularly since it's 3 of them vs 1 murderer.   I'm having a hard time thinking of a scenario in which the other 3, given how selfish these characters are, wouldn't go to the police together and save themselves.  But I'm not puzzling too hard, because the actual resolution has a good chance of being really dumb.

 

Yeah, there's still a lot of holes to fill in. I mean, think of the logistics of the thing. The way it's being presented now, it looks like Sam was killed with one swift blow to the head. I'm not sure how heavy the trophy is, but it would take a hell of a lot of strength to do that. Also, the way television shows are shot makes it difficult, at least for me, to tell how tall anyone is compared to other people, but Sam looks like he'd be taller than all the students, meaning that no matter which one hit him, they somehow had to be above him. Idk, I'm just really anxious to get to the actual murder episode to see how it all plays out.

 

In this episode, Laurel actually called herself a "murderer," so putting into consideration everything we know so far, she looks like the person who was most likely to have struck him. Not to mention that she voted yes to hiding the body and is weirdly collected about the whole thing. But still, as I've said before, they're all helping to cover it up. They all feel like they have a stake in this. The big question is why.

[scarynikki12]

or if we're supposed to believe that DOW and mom just cooked up the idea of domestic abuse

 

One thing I really liked about this episode was that the one cop we saw testifying inadvertently corroborated the father's abusive behavior, though it was subtle.  He said that the father couldn't have abused his wife because he felt protective of her, that she was fragile, and that he called her constantly to check up on her.  Abusers exhibit these behaviors but they dress it up nicely so that the outside world doesn't realize that there's a monster behind the mask.  I also liked that the director cut to the juror who was happily divorced and she seemed to understand what those behaviors really meant. 

[Eolivet]

I just loved that Lila called Sam, her married lover, "Mr. Darcy" -- because I find Pride & Prejudice very overrated and it cracks me up to see that venerable character/romantic trope tarred with that brush.

 

I thought we got less insight into Laurel during "her" episode than we did with either Michaela or Connor.

 

Despite its legal bent, I get some very LOST vibes from this show. Maybe it's all the flashbacks/focus on individual characters per episode. It's an interesting way to tell a story.

[TheHappinessHotel]

 This show gets better with each passing week!  Now I am curios to know how Frank wronged Laurel!  He seemed really desperate to speak to her and get back on her good graces.

 

While I think Khan is incredibly handsome, I loved Frank and Laurel's  make-out scene.

[Chicago Redshirt]

Totally true, but the statement would have to be in an admissible form, such as witness/ defendant testimony or authenticated hospital records.  My understanding of the blog being excluded and then later admitted: the blog is hearsay, and so the defense would need a hearsay exception in order to admit it (I think the show ignored this step altogether).  The blog probably would fall under one of the hearsay exceptions (state of mind, contemporaneous recording), although they would have problems with authentication if the defendant wasn't going to testify.  Only if the blog satisfied one or more of the hearsay objections would the prosecution make the self-serving statements objections, because a statement being self-serving is not generally sufficient to exclude it (because really, most statements in a trial are self-serving!).  The judge probably was wrong in his ruling, but it's possible to have self-serving statements excluded if they're unduly prejudicial, especially if they are uncorroborated.  However, once the prosecution entered part of the song lyrics, which were on the blog from an earlier time than the witness had heard the song, the defense was entitled to admit the entire song.  Because the song was on the blog, I guess they considered the entire blog to be one "document", and so admission of part it required admission of all of it?  Basically, the blog constituted the defendant's statement, and after the prosecution successfully argued to exclude it from evidence, they then entered part of the statement in to evidence, and so the defense got to enter the rest of it.  It's shaky, but it almost works.  And I could be way off the mark - just my thoughts about it!

 

I think we're on the same page. But the judge originally was going to bar DOW (and anyone else) from testifying about the alleged abuse, even though they would be competent to do so. 

 

The backdooring of the song because the prosecution has someone testify to the song, and therefore that entitling the defense to use the blog in its entirety and therefore that entitling all mention of abuse just doesn't make sense.

 

I still haven't gone back and watched the entire episode, but did the song even refer to abuse of the mother? 

[Litnit]

I'd love for Frank to say, "Dude, by do anything for you, I mean stop at Starbucks for a PSL, not hide a murder weapon."  Alas, it won't happen that way.  IRL a guy you sleep with who won't back off is a stalker.  In TV land, he's just really into you.

 

The bathroom thing was really noticeable last night, as was the scene where Bonnie overheard the fight.  Obviously these things need to happen for plot purposes, but this woman has no boundaries.  I worked for a lawyer whose home was attached to the office.  I was never in his house, nor were any clients.  It was a completely separate area.  I certainly wasn't standing at the bottom of his stairs at bedtime listening to a domestic.  It's for dramatic purposes, but it's silly, and could be done better.

[Turtle]

I still haven't gone back and watched the entire episode, but did the song even refer to abuse of the mother?​

 

 

Unless I missed it, they never told us the full lyrics, which just makes it all so much weirder. 

[Hava]

My problem with Frank and Laurel is that, like the awful Wes/Rebecca thing, it came out of nowhere. From what I recall, in one of the early episodes, Frank creepily "marked" Laurel as his next conquest and Laurel seemed uncomfortable--at least, that's what it seemed to me. But, int he following episodes, their dynamic became more angst-filled, with them longing for each other for inexplicable reasons. If the show had filled in the gaps re: this dynamic, I wouldn't have had a problem with their relationship. 

[tvfanatic13]

That was so, so bad.  AnnaLise had to know where the photo was taken, but she lets Rebecca go up and check for patterns. DUMB!

 

She didn't- Wes did. Rebecca came out of the room from her "evaluation" and asked Wes where the bathroom was. Still ridiculous that there is no downstairs bathroom though.

[Chas411]

Are we evere going to see the interns bond over anything (murder of Sam excluded). I'm all for competitiveness but I hate watching a show where everyone seems to hate each other. Bar Wes/Rebecca and Frank/Laurel who suck anyway there's no friendship between anyone.

[blackwing]

The writing was a little sloppy.  Annalise clearly recognises Sam's penis.  Maybe she was too focused on the picture of him to notice the wallpaper.  How can someone like Rebecca notice the wallpaper and instantly make the connection with Annalise and Sam?  Yet Annalise, a smart and successful attorney, didn't?  When she confronted Sam about the affair and asked him how many times it happened and WHERE, he said something like 6 or 7 and that it was only in his office, and one time in her car.

 

Clearly it also happened in their bedroom.  She didn't recognise the wallpaper?  Or if she did, it is not believable that she wouldn't have confronted him about it and called him out on his lie right there and then.

 

Also, exactly where was the couch Sam was sleeping on?  Was it in the front parlour?  So the first floor of this house is apparently HUGE.  It is big enough to have a parlour, that great room area with the bookshelves with the statue, that office looking area where clients get interviewed, and whatever else.  Presumably a kitchen and perhaps a dining room.  But no bathroom.  If Sam had to sleep downstairs on the couch in the "public" area of the house, what exactly is upstairs on the second floor?  One giant master bedroom suite?  Wouldn't there at least be a guest bedroom on the second floor that Sam could have been banished to?  Of course, then we wouldn't have gotten the scene of Wes tiptoeing by a sleeping Sam to check out the upstairs wallpaper.

 

Of course it's all plot device, but at least make things a bit more believable.  I'm mildly surprised that they didn't have Sam sleeping shirtless so Wes could compare the his bare torso with the torso in the picture.

[Turkish]

My problem with Frank and Laurel is that, like the awful Wes/Rebecca thing, it came out of nowhere. From what I recall, in one of the early episodes, Frank creepily "marked" Laurel as his next conquest and Laurel seemed uncomfortable--at least, that's what it seemed to me. But, int he following episodes, their dynamic became more angst-filled, with them longing for each other for inexplicable reasons. If the show had filled in the gaps re: this dynamic, I wouldn't have had a problem with their relationship. 

This is my problem as well. I would have preferred if the writers weren't rushing to push these two together and instead took a slow-burn approach with them and allowed them to develop over the course of a season. Like you said, what we got Frank "marking" her as his next conquest and being called out on it by Bonnie. Then boom, all of a sudden they are angsty and she's cheating on her boyfriend with him. If they really want to go the bad boy tamed by his true love route with this couple why not actually pace the storyline out a bit more than the first few episodes. If these two actually had more scenes together maybe I wouldn't have such a problem with it but as of now I'm just not seeing the chemistry the writers want me to see. Wes and Rebecca aren't much better but at least they have had more actual conversations than Laurel and Frank have.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Turkish

[helenamonster]

What frustrates me about the bathroom thing is that it didn't have to be a plot point at all. They could have had a first-floor half-bathroom with distinct wallpaper, and Sam could have taken the picture in there. Easy peasy.