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Tara Ariano

S01.E05: We're Not Friends

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Annalise defends a minor who shot and killed his father—a police officer. Meanwhile, Wes and Rebecca start to wonder what Annalise's motives are; and Sam's relationship with Lila continues to irritate his wife. Also: A flash-forward reveals what's going on between Laurel and Frank and why he was calling her the night Sam died.

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I'm actually looking forward to finding out why Laurel's so much of a non-entity. Not because I'm feeling mean, but because I'm pretty sure her being so unassuming and kind of bland when compared to the other students is intentional and somehow more relevant to the plot than what we may think.

 

I just hope I'm not wrong and they'll just take her down the "Idealistic Girl Meets Hot Older Douchebag and Finds Twoo Wuv", 'cause I actually love this show and that'd be quite a letdown.

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 Another great episode. This show is so full of craziness. I really enjoy seeing what happens next. 

 

Ha, I love how coldly Annalise told Sam to sleep on the couch. He has got to stop lying. I thought all Annalise's scenes were great tonight and Viola looked great. Time for Annalise to give up on her lover. He is clearly done with her.

 

I really liked Laurel in this episode. She came into her own. I thought for sure that we would find out that the mother and son were lying though. At least, Laurel tried to resist her attraction to Frank.

Edited by SimoneS
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Not a bad follow-up to last week's intense episode. 

 

Still not feeling Laurel or Laurel/Frank, though I do get why they bond and eventually sleep together.

 

Wes + Rebecca still = zzzzzzzzzz for me. Rebecca is an incredibly unappealing character. 

 

ETA: Interesting that Sam and Annalise got together via an affair. No wonder she's paranoid about him cheating.

Edited by Gillian Rosh
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I thought that was a really good episode from start to finish.

 

There's always been something about Laurel that I've liked and I'm glad she finally got the focus this episode. Although until she left what I can only presume was the jury nullification Wikipedia page lying around, I was thinking how great it was that there was at least one student who didn't stoop to illegal means to prove themselves to Annalise. Oh well, never mind, they're all sneaky little assholes. But JUST SAY NO to Laurel and Frank. Not only is the whole thing skeevy as hell, I also didn't see any sort of spark between them during their kiss. Now when Laurel went to sex up Kahn on the desk, that's another story. Why would you cheat on someone like that, Laurel? Why? Please love yourself.

 

I was a little confused about what exactly the Scooby Gang needed help with re: the trophy. I thought they'd shown Wes cleaning it with bleach in the pilot? Why do they need Frank for this? I feel like I missed something.

 

I'm glad Rebecca addressed how weird Wes coming to her rescue was, cuz I was afraid the show was trying to paint them as twu wuvs and that there was nothing strange in Wes impersonating a lawyer just cuz he was thirsty. There's definitely something off about him.

 

Was Bonnie Sam's first wife?

 

ETA: The news broke in just before the show came back from the first commercial break to let us know ebola had hit NYC. When they cut back, Bonnie was passing out the pictures of the jury. Did I miss anything?

Edited by helenamonster
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Where do I start with this show.....

 

Ugh. This show is really about to start shoveling Laurel/Frank down my throat. I can feel it. Maybe if they had more scenes together I would get it but right now it just seems too premature for Frank to be all about a woman he literally knows nothing about other than where she went to college. Now they are bringing him into Sam's murder. 

 

So Annalise was herself once Sam's mistress. Well, that explains quite a few things. Also, she knows about Bonnie and Sam. Whatever that relationship is. I still need more details on that. Is Bonnie just infatuated with Sam or was their relationship mutual at some time? And if Bonnie did have an affair with Sam, why would Annalise still keep her in her practice or want her anywhere near her husband?

 

Another thing related to Bonnie is that Annalise knows that Bonnie was trying to protect Sam(obviously because she's in love with him) in regards to Nate so I'm even more sure of my theory that Bonnie likely killed Lila. 

 

Now I understand a little more why Wes gets even more attached to Rebecca. They know Annalise is lying and trying to protect Sam. The more we find out the more it is starting to make sense why these kids are desperate to cover up this murder.  If Annalise finds out they had any part in Sam's murder or it's cover up she will bring down the wrath of God on them and they know it.

 

ETA:

 

Was Bonnie Sam's first wife?

I hadn't considered that. I was thinking she was another one of his affairs. Either that or her interest in him is one-sided. I'm still confused as to why Annalise would keep her around either way. But I guess if Bonnie was Sam's first wife and Annalise cheated with him maybe she keeps Bonnie employed there because she feels bad about taking her husband. I can't wait for the Bonnie episode so I can stop speculating. 

Edited by Turkish
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I was a little confused about what exactly the Scooby Gang needed help with re: the trophy. I thought they'd shown Wes cleaning it with bleach in the pilot? Why do they need Frank for this? I feel like I missed something.

 

I think that the trophy was in Asher's possession and they have to find a way to get it back to him without raising his suspicion.

 

I think both Rebecca and Wes and Frank and Laurel have nice chemistry. Yep, Frank is trouble, but I think that he is surprised by the depth of his feelings for Laurel and will try to do right by her. On the other hand, as much as I like Rebecca, I see her dragging Wes to his doom.

Edited by SimoneS
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This was a solid episode.  I'm glad Laurel got the spotlight this week, but her thing with Frank is so boring and predictable.  Poor Kan.  Frank is such a douche.  Even his picture on Laurel's phone seemed sleazy.  I laughed at him congratulating the kid at the end like he actually had something to do with the case going to mistrial.  Annalise already knew he was covering for Laurel.  Honestly, Frank just seems like a glorified secretary.

 

I figured the ever-annoying Rebecca would climb out of the window in the bathroom to escape, or something.  Too bad she didn't stay away.  

 

I got some creepy vibes during the argument between Sam and Annalise.  Especially when he clamped his hand over her mouth.  Not helping your case, dude.

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I'll probably have more to say tomorrow but it's late and I'm tired so I'll just say that I'm now even more convinced that whatever happened that night with the four involves Sam probably attacking Rebecca because he realized that she figured out he was the one Lila was having an affair with. Connor, Michaela and Laurel might have just been a case of wrong place at the wrong time and maybe tried to help and got caught up in the situation and Sam ended up dead. Now like I said last week, the smart thing then would have been to simply call the police and explain this but well people don't always do what's smart. I am still wondering how Annalise and Bonnie factor in though because I have a strong suspicion that they also play a huge role in whatever happened that night. Speaking of Bonnie, I didn't get the impression she's Sam's ex at all. I still think her feelings are one-sided and if anything, she may be obsessed with him.

I think Frank being in his apartment calling Laurel kind of suggests that he has no idea what happened that night. Speaking of Frank calling Laurel - holy creepy obsessed weirdo. What was with all the "I'll do anything..." desperation. Tonight sought to give Laurel some backstory and more presence but honestly, I was left still completely bored by her. That makeout scene between her and Frank was the most boring and forced thing I've ever seen. In other news though, Annalise continues to be utterly fascinating, Asher is really growing on me because he's such a putz and I still hate Rebecca.

Edited by truthaboutluv
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Bonnie was a non-entity for me before but her "Bitch, please" to Frank put her on the map in a big way.

I am also loving the Connor/Asher dynamic.

Edited by Kanner
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Viola clomps around like a horse, does she have a bum leg because I noticed her doing it in 'The Help' too. Don't know how long I will keep watching because I don't care about any of the characters.

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Can someone who is knowledgeable about law explain the trial scene involving the blog.  The witness remembered the song from the defendant's performance at the talent show.  Annalise got the witness to confirm the date of the talent show and the lyrics.  And then because the kid posted the lyrics on his blog before performing them, that somehow made the blog admissable evidence?  But if the witness never read the blog, how could that make the blog evidence?  I mean, why didn't the prosecutor just argue the witness remembered the lyrics from a memorable performance.

 

Also, I thought jury nullification was completely legal as long as the lawyers don't tell the jury about it.  So a juror knowing about nullification and sharing that info with the rest of the jury wouldn't be grounds for a mistrial.

 

I know the show is about more than courtroom drama, but when I get caught up thinking about legal details, it takes me out of the show.

Edited by futurechemist
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I know it's only the fifth episode but I feel like it was a little too late to give Rebecca a personality. Barging in, eating pizza, wanting to gab... what? I guess the idea is that because she has paranoia issues, she needed time to warm up to Wes but she's been so unlikable and off for her to be friendly like that. I mean, I'm thankful they're starting to build the Wes/Rebecca relationship, considering what happens during the murder stuff, but ease into it.

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She did say she was hiding out in her apartment because she couldn't go out without being recognized and hounded by media, and that she'd run out of food. She basically only came over and stole some pizza. it's not like she was super-charming; she was about the same as when she came over and used his shower, I thought.

 

I actually don't mind her. I think I'd be suspicious and jaded about some guy who moved into my building and immediately started being overly familiar without knowing anything about me. And she's been through a lot lately, so for her to be suspicious and guarded in general seems to me pretty normal.

 

And she's smart and observant. I like that. I don't want her to be a dimbulb damsel for the privileged kids to champion or exploit. i want her to be their equal, at minimum. This was the first time I thought maybe they were actually going to develop her character and not just make her a symbolic damsel placeholder for the upwardly mobile to play chess with.

Edited by possibilities
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Another thing related to Bonnie is that Annalise knows that Bonnie was trying to protect Sam(obviously because she's in love with him) in regards to Nate so I'm even more sure of my theory that Bonnie likely killed Lila. 

 

 

 

i am dumb. can anyone explain to me why bonnie trying to get rebecca's confession tape was supposed to be protecting sam?

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i am dumb. can anyone explain to me why bonnie trying to get rebecca's confession tape was supposed to be protecting sam?

 

 

I don't think that was her initial plan, to protect Sam, so much as she was having trouble getting the tape and found some leverage when she saw Nate searching Sam's car. Now like others, I too am a little confused as to how and why she immediately knew Nate was investigating Lila's murder and suspected Sam for it but in any case, she used the knowledge of him searching the car to threaten the police chief and the department, which forced them to hand over the confession tape. In so doing, she also got Nate fired because I am going to assume his search of Sam's car was illegal and he was already on probation. So basically she killed two birds with one stone.

 

Annalise was pissed off because Bonnie never told her about Nate searching Sam's car and Sam's possibly being a suspect. Bonnie's argument was that with everything Annalise had on her plate, she didn't think it was necessary to worry her but Annalise who clearly knows, as I'm starting to suspect like everyone else, that Bonnie has a thing for Sam pretty much was "bullshit, you weren't thinking about me. This was for Sam."

 

I actually don't mind her. I think I'd be suspicious and jaded about some guy who moved into my building and immediately started being overly familiar without knowing anything about me. And she's been through a lot lately, so for her to be suspicious and guarded in general seems to me pretty normal.

 

 

Except Rebecca's rude and obnoxious behavior began before Wes started being overly familiar. Their first interaction was his going over to politely ask her to turn down her music because it was two in the morning and he was trying to prep for the big competition thing in Annalise's class. Rebecca's response was to be rude and dismissive and slam her door in his face. Still, the next time they saw each other, he made an attempt to apologize like he'd done something wrong and again she was cold and rude. Then he asked her, like most decent people would, if she was okay after her door was wide open after being attacked or having a fight with the football player guy and she slammed her door in his face.

 

And all that I could maybe be fine with and believe me, I am beyond irritated with Wes' whole obsession to save her because I don't understand it and it makes little sense in my opinion. But her comment to him last week after she got out of jail was the last damn straw for me. I get being guarded, yes I get wondering why the hell this guy who barely knows her wants to help so much and her remaining wary of him but she could have done all these things and still say a freaking "thank you..." Instead she basically scoffed at the idea that he expected one and stated that she still didn't know yet how good Annalise supposedly was. Like her ass would have still been in jail, getting ready to be carted off for 30+ years for making a bogus confession and all she could still say is "whatever, I still don't know how good she really is."

 

And last night's attempt to make her more likable or rootable feels a bit too little too late in my opinion. Honestly, I don't hate Rebecca, I just don't give a flying crap about her and I haven't seen one reason why I should. She's obviously a key to the big murder mystery so I grudgingly realize she'll be sticking around but I just find her unpleasant, annoying, she and Wes have zero chemistry and frankly their scenes together just bore me. For as much as many say the law students are all unlikable or not rootable, I'll take watching them any day over Rebecca, including Laurel and her boring self. I just think the writers did a piss poor job setting up that Wes/Rebecca dynamic from the start and because she was a supporting player, seen pretty much through him, it made it that much more difficult to connect to her and care about her. 

Edited by truthaboutluv
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I'm not a lawyer.  That said, the court scenes seem about 100% absurd. 

 

Defense can sneak in a piece of evidence, on a banned topic, and that lets it do a runaround on the judge's ruling?

 

The judge falls for the jury nullification ruse -- that for all intents and purposes freed the defendant -- without any further investigation?

 

Annalise's double standards are more glaring than ever.  It was ok for her to cheat with Sam, when he was married to his first wife.  It's ok for her to cheat with the now ex-detective.  But if Sam cheats on her, we get an emotional explosion of accusations and condemnations.  

 

Very much doubt Bonnie was Sam's first wife.  After getting divorced from him, she would then go to work for the woman he was cheating with... who stole him away from her?

 

The trial of the week came across to me as cliche and stereotyped.  I was hoping the twist would be that the cop/father/husband did NOT abuse his wife: that she cooked up the scheme, maybe to collect insurance money and/or go off with a lover.   

 

The only thing holding me is to see how the murder came about, and what its resolution is. 

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Wes + Rebecca still = zzzzzzzzzz for me. Rebecca is an incredibly unappealing character. 

She's pretty bitchy. I'm assuming we'll see some redeeming qualities in a future episode. 

 

On the other hand, as much as I like Rebecca, I see her dragging Wes to his doom.

I don't know how much dragging she's doing, he seems pretty eager to help her no matter what. 

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Now I understand a little more why Wes gets even more attached to Rebecca. They know Annalise is lying and trying to protect Sam. The more we find out the more it is starting to make sense why these kids are desperate to cover up this murder.  If Annalise finds out they had any part in Sam's murder or it's cover up she will bring down the wrath of God on them and they know it.

 

 

But I still don't get why Wes is even remotely attractied to Rebecca.  She's not attractive and nasty to boot.  Yes, something is wrong with Wes, unless he's interested in Rebecca because she's female and that's it.

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I don't know how much dragging she's doing, he seems pretty eager to help her no matter what. 

 

Good point. Wes is definitely into Rebecca and is making his own decisions.

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Now when Laurel went to sex up Kahn on the desk, that's another story. Why would you cheat on someone like that, Laurel? Why?

IKR? Kan is literally tall, dark, and handsome. And smart too. Laurel is dumb to take someone like him for granted.

 

And if Bonnie did have an affair with Sam, why would Annalise still keep her in her practice or want her anywhere near her husband?

Maybe Bonnie knows too much about Annalise's questionable legal maneuvers, i.e., where the bodies are buried.

 

Honestly, Frank just seems like a glorified secretary.

Yep. Annalise should fire him and hire Nate as her in-house investigator. It's the least she could do for sorta causing Nate to lose his job. I don't know why Annalise is so desperate to hold onto her dog of a husband when she could have had Nate. Was she just using him all along?

 

Speaking of Bonnie, I didn't get the impression she's Sam's ex at all. I still think her feelings are one-sided and if anything, she may be obsessed with him.

I don't think she's his ex either but they've probably had at least one roll in the hay. Those looks between them go on just a couple of beats too long, IMO, for them to be mere co-workers or acquaintances.

Edited by Joimiaroxeu
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Wes + Rebecca still = zzzzzzzzzz for me. Rebecca is an incredibly unappealing character. 

 

Couldn't agree more here. She feels like a waste of screen time.

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Not to harp on the legal issues, but the entire jury nullification thing left me scratching my head.

 

I get that the lawyers can't tell the jury about it.

 

But once the jury knew, via a juror, what did kicking that juror off accomplish?  The rest of the jury knows about nullification so why replace with the extra juror?

 

Am I confusing two plot points because I just realized that the defendant is freed because of this.?  I admit to being distracted while watching.

 

I stopped watching Grey's Anatomy because the medical stuff was so outlandish and because I have a low tolerance for straight up soap operas. 

 

I love Viola and the rest of the cast is appealing to various degrees, but the show itself is starting to annoy me.

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But once the jury knew, via a juror, what did kicking that juror off accomplish?  The rest of the jury knows about nullification so why replace with the extra juror?

Am I confusing two plot points because I just realized that the defendant is freed because of this.?  I admit to being distracted while watching.

 

 

Yeah you're confusing two plot points. The jury who got replaced was the one Connor tricked into chatting on some gay sex chat room and he made a comment about being a juror for this case where the kid is murderer or something to that effect. So that juror got excused and replaced. When the juror copped to finding the article about nullification and telling the others, the judge declared a mistrial because I guess the reasoning was that the entire jury had now been compromised.

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Guest Accused Dingo

Ha! Olivia and Fitz if they ever do get married because once a cheater.....

Edited by Accused Dingo
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I guess it's possible to find 12 people in a big city that have never seen an episode of LA Law, Law & Order, Judging Amy, etc or multiple movies where jury nullification was a plot point.  I would think in this day and age, most adults already know the concept.

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Didn't like this episode as much as the others.  I don't care for Wes and I care even less for Rebecca.  I like Laurel on her own but I couldn't care less about Frank and whatever his issues are.  I don't understand why, in the flash forward, if Laurel claims she slept with him only once, she has enough attachment to him to assign a photo to his phone number, and an unappealing shirtless photo at that.  Also, after the first time the phone rang and those two kissers on the hill heard it, why wouldn't Laurel have turned her phone to silent?  She lets it ring again a second time and again waits long enough so Michaela can see the photo again?

 

I didn't like that there was very little advancement in the Lila murder plot.  We don't know anything more than we did last week.  I guess we do know that Sam lied again, he said he only slept with her in his office and in her car.  It was obvious it also happened in his and Annalise's bedroom.

 

What I am surprisingly most annoyed with... that house/office doesn't have a bathroom on the first floor?  Annalise is a defence attorney.  She regularly defends people who are accused of murder.  She has said before that she doesn't care if they are innocent or guilty.  So she could be inviting potential murderers into her office/home.  And there is NO BATHROOM on the first floor?  Inconceivable.  It could be an older house, or maybe they renovated the bathroom out of the first floor, but I don't buy it.  Anytime anybody (her, the associates, the students, clients) have to take a pee they have to go upstairs and into Annalise's bedroom suite?  Makes absolutely no sense.

 

I guess it's possible to find 12 people in a big city that have never seen an episode of LA Law, Law & Order, Judging Amy, etc or multiple movies where jury nullification was a plot point.  I would think in this day and age, most adults already know the concept.
I watched the show with 3 people and none of them had ever heard of jury nullification.  One of them was even a lawyer, although he does transactional law and would have no idea about any litigation concepts. 

 

What I don't get is why there aren't sanctions.  I agree with the prosecutor, obviously it was in the defence's interest to inform the jury about jury nullification.  I find it hard to believe that a judge would just accept that some random person would leave a page about jury nullification on a bench in the courthouse.

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I would think in this day and age, most adults already know the concept.

 

 

Actually that I buy. There are a lot of things that seem fairly ubiquitous and one would be surprised how many people have never heard of it and know nothing about it. I find that to be very true of pop culture so I can believe that there would be person who's never seen any of these types of shows because it's just not their thing and having no interest in the legal profession would not know the term.

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How many more episodes until Connor & Asher's drunken ONS?

Because damn, Jack Falahee & Matt McGorry were definitely giving each other 'come fuck me' vibes big time last night.

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Can someone who is knowledgeable about law explain the trial scene involving the blog.  The witness remembered the song from the defendant's performance at the talent show.  Annalise got the witness to confirm the date of the talent show and the lyrics.  And then because the kid posted the lyrics on his blog before performing them, that somehow made the blog admissable evidence?  But if the witness never read the blog, how could that make the blog evidence?  I mean, why didn't the prosecutor just argue the witness remembered the lyrics from a memorable performance.

 

Also, I thought jury nullification was completely legal as long as the lawyers don't tell the jury about it.  So a juror knowing about nullification and sharing that info with the rest of the jury wouldn't be grounds for a mistrial.

 

I know the show is about more than courtroom drama, but when I get caught up thinking about legal details, it takes me out of the show.

 

So as usual, there is a lot of suspension of disbelief that needs to be done with any court show and in particular this one.

 

A quick rundown of what was wrong, or at least off, about this episode, IMO. (Keep in mind that I didn't finish the entire episode because I had a couple eps of Spartacus and Scandal that I was watching, and I also wasn't necessarily paying the closest of attention to the parts I did watch):

 

1. The judge's initial ruling that no mention of the abuse could come in. There would be no basis whatsoever for a judge to bar the defendant from introducing evidence as to his state of mind and his motive for committing the killing. The notion that there had to be some outside corroboration of the abuse is absurd. This is something that would almost certainly get the case reversed on appeal because a criminal defendant has to be given leeway to defend himself. The notion that defendant of the week (DOW) killed his father because he was scared of the abuse of his mother goes directly to whether or not DOW had the mens rea, or guilty mind as the pilot mentioned, needed for murder. The notion that there is no evidence for the abuse, apparently, other than the word of DOW and mom of DOW is a classic question for the jury to consider if that is sufficient evidence.

 

2. Even assuming a judge would ban somehow evidence of the abuse, such a ruling would almost certainly have to be made prior to picking a jury. That is when motions in limine, or the set of motions trying to determine the ground rules of a trial (what evidence/arguments are permissible and what's not), will be decided.

 

3. It is possible that a judge might bar evidence unless one side "opens the door" to it.  So apparently we're to buy that mentioning an event that was covered in the blog somehow brings into evidence the whole blog, and therefore the notion of abuse. Annalise used the blog to contradict the notion that the prosecutor wanted to leave that DOW suddenly decided to shoot his dad and sing about it shortly before the murder. She does so by showing that DOW actually wrote something about this on the blog months earlier. (Which makes it seem worse to me, like he had an even longer standing desire to kill his dad. But what do I know?). There is a general rule of evidence called the rule of completeness. As it implies, once you admit part of a document, the opposing party gets to introduce the whole thing. So here, it wouldn't necessarily mean that Annalise gets to introduce the rest of the blog, the prosecutor could. There would also be a lot of foundation that would need to be done, or work to be done to establish that this blog was written by DOW at the time it purportedly was etc. This actually grinds my gears less than most of the rest of the stuff. I just read it as the trial judge realizing what a mistake he made by trying to bar the evidence of abuse in the first place and correcting things on the fly.

 

4. Jury nullification. I hate the notion that our purported lawyers are acting like it's a valid legal concept. It's true that there's nothing that lawyers or judges can do if the jury willfully decides to ignore the law and the facts. But it's also true that this doesn't make jury nullification "a right" or legal.

 

http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/jury_nullification

 

5. DOW as a "cop killer." It seems random and strange to use that phrase to describe him, because he didn't kill his dad because he was a cop, really.

 

6. Domestic violence and this case. I'm not sure we're supposed to think that dad's domestic abuse left no objective evidence -- no hospital visits by mom for example -- or if we're supposed to believe that DOW and mom just cooked up the idea of domestic abuse which is why there's no objective evidence.  

 

7. People wouldn't be allowed to testify, "Well, dad of DOW didn't seem like an abuser to me."

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Something that bugged me was that Annalise relied so much on the abused wife angle, yet no one thought to check if the wife had been hospitalized for her injuries?  If the father/cop was beating her that often, there should be at least one hospital report on record.  No fractures of any kind?  Didn't she say he kicked her in the stomach so she couldn't conceive again?

 

 

Yep. Annalise should fire him and hire Nate as her in-house investigator. It's the least she could do for sorta causing Nate to lose his job. I don't know why Annalise is so desperate to hold onto her dog of a husband when she could have had Nate.

 

Nate is married, though.  He's not hers to claim. 

 

Annalise is all over the place when it comes to Nate.  I don't know if she's waiting for his sick wife to die, or if he's just a booty call that she caught feelings for.

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What I am surprisingly most annoyed with... that house/office doesn't have a bathroom on the first floor?  Annalise is a defence attorney.  She regularly defends people who are accused of murder.  She has said before that she doesn't care if they are innocent or guilty.  So she could be inviting potential murderers into her office/home.  And there is NO BATHROOM on the first floor?  Inconceivable.  It could be an older house, or maybe they renovated the bathroom out of the first floor, but I don't buy it.  Anytime anybody (her, the associates, the students, clients) have to take a pee they have to go upstairs and into Annalise's bedroom suite?  Makes absolutely no sense.

 

YES!!!!  I just created an account to say this same thing.  On what planet do a highly successful lawyer and her also successful professor husband live in a house (that doubles as her WORKPLACE) with only 1 bathroom?   Least believable thing yet. 

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I think there was a legally sound way to get the blog in but they skipped something. In real life it goes like this:

 

Teacher says he wrote a disturbing paper about killing his Dad but with no explanation.

Defense offers blog item with the same wording of the paper but the full blog item explains the reason for wanting to kill his dad is because he is beating up his mom.

 

The part I found funny was in Annalise's speech about moving the blog into evidence she announces to the room - and the jury - that it substantiates abuse. Which was off limits.   

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After the mistrial was declared. was there not even discussion of a retrial?  In news reports I have heard, there is often a retrial after a mistrial.  But here DOW was just sent to do community service or something.  Possibly I missed a line or two but it seems like an important point.

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A quick rundown of what was wrong,

 

Thanks for that detailed explanation.  On another point, are the students/interns considered part of the trial team?  That is, are they allowed to present evidence to the attorney across the wall as was shown?  I thought they were sitting in the viewer gallery and thus not allowed to talk to the defense team.  Then again, maybe this item was decided in the case of Handwave v. Reality.

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I want Bonnie's white blouse with the black print pattern.

So, will every jury selection process in the future have potential jurors asked if they watched this episode, and, if yes, excuse them?

More later...

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I'm not bothered by the courtroom stuff that's wrong.  I'm not even bothered by them having one bathroom.  But what I am bothered by is why Wes is even remotely attracted to Rebecca.  Ugh if Wes was related to me, I'd tell him to stay away from that chick, to me she looks dirty, like you'd get an STD or even Ebola, just by being in the same room with her.  

Edited by Neurochick
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Thanks for that detailed explanation.  On another point, are the students/interns considered part of the trial team?  That is, are they allowed to present evidence to the attorney across the wall as was shown?  I thought they were sitting in the viewer gallery and thus not allowed to talk to the defense team.  Then again, maybe this item was decided in the case of Handwave v. Reality.

In real world trials (or at least, with my experience watching and participating in them), interns would mostly wait till breaks in cases to hand things up and of course, people would have their stuff together such that most of the time they would not need to hand stuff up on the fly. But I've certainly seen messengers, interns, other attorneys hand things to the people sitting at counsel table while court is in session and the jury's there, and done it myself. 

 

So, will every jury selection process in the future have potential jurors asked if they watched this episode, and, if yes, excuse them?

In real-world jury selection, the jurors are instructed repeatedly that they are supposed to follow the law as the judge gives it to them (i.e., no jury nullification). Absent blatant evidence to the contrary, people presume that they will follow that and every other instruction. I would imagine during the voir dire process people would get questioned as to whether they can follow the law as it's given to them. Some might be the "stealth jurors" that were referred to in the show where people are lying about their true intentions. 

 

Oh, I should add that voir dire doesn't generally work as the show had it either. You would generally interview a bunch of folks at a time and then have outside the hearing of the jury any discussions about who is excused for cause, and you would do your challenges in secret, and you would only have a limited number of them, rather than yelling out "ACCEPTED!" or "EXCUSED!"

I'm not bothered by the courtroom stuff that's wrong.  I'm not even bothered by them having one bathroom.  But what I am bothered by is why Wes is even remotely attracted to Rebecca.  Ugh if Wes was related to me, I'd tell him to stay away from that chick, to me she looks dirty, like you'd get an STD or even Ebola, just by being in the same room with her.  

I suppose some people are attracted to bad, mean girls. 

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After the mistrial was declared. was there not even discussion of a retrial?  In news reports I have heard, there is often a retrial after a mistrial.  But here DOW was just sent to do community service or something.  Possibly I missed a line or two but it seems like an important point.

There was discussion but we didn't see it onscreen.  There would have been a new trial.  However, I think Annalise said that the DA's office felt that the public opinion had swayed over to the son in the wake of the abuse allegations, so they weren't going to attempt another trial.  They just gave him community service.

Edited by blackwing
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Wigless Annalise >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bewigged Annalise.

It's remarkable how different VD plays those two sides of her (and how much more compelling she is in all her natural glory.)

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IA about the bathroom, odd as it is.  Even a half bath on the first floor would make sense.  And I can't imagine Annalise would be cool with just anyone going into her master bath.  I guess they don't watch House Hunters.

 

 

But what I am bothered by is why Wes is even remotely attracted to Rebecca.  Ugh if Wes was related to me, I'd tell him to stay away from that chick, to me she looks dirty, like you'd get an STD or even Ebola, just by being in the same room with her.  

 

I thought the same thing.  Rebecca looked like she hadn't showered in days.

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Wigless Annalise >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bewigged Annalise.

It's remarkable how different VD plays those two sides of her (and how much more compelling she is in all her natural glory.)

My wife hasn't been watching this show.  She watched last night with me, so I was filling her in on everything that had happened.  At the end when Annalise comes out of the bathroom and sees Wes in her bedroom, she was all "WHO'S THAT WOMAN?"  She was convinced it was a completely different character, she didn't even recognise that it was Annalise without her wig and makeup.  

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How many more episodes until Connor & Asher's drunken ONS?

 

 

This exactly is why I've noted when I read comments about all the chemistry Connor and Michaela have, that it's more to do with how the actor playing Connor plays the part, in that, he's presented as this oversexualized individual where it always seems like he's flirting with someone even if he's not. That said, while I have never seen the overwhelming chemistry others do between him and Michaela, last night I definitely got a sexual tension vibe between him and Asher but more so on Asher's part actually. Connor was fairly lowkey last night. 

 

There was discussion but we didn't see it onscreen.

 

 

After the mistrial is declared and they're all standing in the lobby outside the courtroom, you can see Annalise in the background talking to the Prosecutor. So my assumption was that she put an offer on the table to the Prosecutor, discussed possible deals and they came up with sending the boy's case down to Juvenile Court. I will say I found the son avoiding any time even in Juvie, a bit surprising. I mean abuse or not, he did murder someone in cold blood and as they noted multiple times, did so when there was no imminent danger to him or his mother.

 

I'm not bothered by the courtroom stuff that's wrong.

 

 

This. As I said after the Pilot when there were many nitpicking all that was inconsistent with the legal profession as well as law school, I go into these shows knowing they take a lot of liberties with whatever profession the characters' are in. Because at the end of the day they are far more interesting in producing an entertainment show than worrying about legal accuracies. 

Edited by truthaboutluv
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I'm not bothered by the courtroom stuff that's wrong.  I'm not even bothered by them having one bathroom.  But what I am bothered by is why Wes is even remotely attracted to Rebecca.  Ugh if Wes was related to me, I'd tell him to stay away from that chick, to me she looks dirty, like you'd get an STD or even Ebola, just by being in the same room with her.  

 

I'll take it a step further and say, I don't even mind if she looks dirty or disease-ridden. I just want to have some semblance of a plausible explanation (other than Wes is a questionable judge of character) for why he's taking all these risks to help Rebecca. Because at this point, I don't see it either, and thus I don't care at all about these two when they're on screen together.

 

Mind you, I also don't care about Laurel and Frank, but up till this point, they haven't been the focal point of the season's main mystery, so they're much easier to forget about.

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I am so close to giving up on this show. I can't even be bothered to know or even care about half the interns names. I really don't feel anything for Rebecca or Wes, or Annalise's husband. How good of a lawyer is Annalise if her interns save the day in every trial, and she doesn't have a law office outside of her home? Seems weird, and only used as a plot device so Rebecca could recognize the wall paper behind whats-his-names schlong. I hate the flash-forwards or whatever the "night of the bonfire" is. Also, if Annalise is supposed to be a strong, powerful woman, why oh why Shonda, do you make her such a sap when it comes to the men in her life? OK, rant over. I'll probably watch next week only because I want to see what happens with the overall murder mystery, but not because this is a "TGIT" show.

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This exactly is why I've noted when I read comments about all the chemistry Connor and Michaela have, that it's more to do with how the actor playing Connor plays the part, in that, he's presented as this oversexualized individual where it always seems like he's flirting with someone even if he's not. That said, while I have never seen the overwhelming chemistry others do between him and Michaela, last night I definitely got a sexual tension vibe between him

and Asher but more so on Asher's part actually. Connor was fairly lowkey last night.

While I agree that Falahee has major chemistry with Aja Naomi King, I don't think it's sexual chemistry. More specifically, I don't see anything that suggests Connor and Mikayla want to screw each other. I do get that vibe with Connor and Asher.

I follow Falahee on Twitter and it seems as though he and McGorry are friends in real life. Actually, the vibe I got between Connor and Asher last night was the same as between Connor and Pax in the previous episode, and Falahee is also friends in real life with that actor, so maybe there's a comfort level that is coming across as sexual?

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