Beth: You're going to miss me when I'm gone...

[Nashville]

Things happened pretty quickly.  From the time Hershel's head got cut off to Beth getting her brains blown out was only 13 days.

This family is a walking ad for Excedrin.

[SometimesBites]

Things happened pretty quickly.  From the time Hershel's head got cut off to Beth getting her brains blown out was only 13 days.

 

This family is a walking ad for Excedrin.

Ha, yes. Maggie will be fine; she just needs to keep her head.

[Iguessnot]

All this crap about EK's acting feels more like victim blaming to me. No matter what shit TPTB pull its never their responsibility. Lori's a bitch, Andrea's a slut, EK is a drama queen somehow its always the womans fault .

For me Emily was the ONLY regular cast member who could not do justice to her character. I also can't reconcile sexism charges about a character who was a walking Disney princess and her fans liked her that way. Blink once for drunk, twice for sober. Look carefully or you'll miss it. She played a damsel in distress and got a piggyback ride from Daryl, got him to hold hands with doe eyes in full effect. Calling her eventual death sexism seems to be grasping at straws. 

 

A large number of fans want Father Pee Pants, Tyrese and Abraham dead and buried. Why is that not sexism? And as annoying as these characters can be, the actors play them convincingly.

[Hava]

I find it so interesting that so many viewers thought that the actress was bad. She was by no means great, but I honestly never had a problem with her acting (although there were probably a few times that were cringe-worthy, as with many of the actors on this show). I thought she played the naivety and closed-offness pretty well. Basically, her acting didn't take me out of her scenes, unlike other actors on the show like Maggie, who I think is probably the worst and Rick, who I love, but whose voice is distractingly awful.

 

I know I am coming across in this thread as a Beth fan-girl, so lest you discount my opinions, I'm really not. I liked her character and her relationship with Daryl (platonic or otherwise) and was sad that she was killed off, but she was not my favorite or the reason I am watching the show. 

 

A large number of fans want Father Pee Pants, Tyrese and Abraham dead and buried. Why is that not sexism?

 

I'm not saying it is or is not sexist, but I just wanted to point that a fan could want male characters to be killed off AND still be sexist against a female character. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Hava

[Morrigan2575]

I'm not saying it is or is not sexist, but I just wanted to point that a fan could want male characters to be killed off AND still be sexist against a female character. The two are not mutually exclusive

pretty sure that wasn't the point

[Watcher0363]

I find it so interesting that so many viewers thought that the actress was bad. She was by no means great, but I honestly never had a problem with her acting (although there were probably a few times that were cringe-worthy, as with many of the actors on this show). I thought she played the naivety and closed-offness pretty well. Basically, her acting didn't take me out of her scenes, unlike other actors on the show like Maggie, who I think is probably the worst and Rick, who I love, but whose voice is distractingly awful.

 

I know I am coming across in this thread as a Beth fan-girl, so lest you discount my opinions, I'm really not. I liked her character and her relationship with Daryl (platonic or otherwise) and was sad that she was killed off, but she was not my favorite or the reason I am watching the show. 

 

I'm not saying it is or is not sexist, but I just wanted to point that a fan could want male characters to be killed off AND still be sexist against a female character. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Hava, you are not coming across as a Beth fan girl. You and your comments are what this topic is for. For people to discuss the character of Beth. I think all the people here who have said they enjoyed the character of Beth. Do not fall into the spoon sending, Melissa threatening, hardcore Daryl shippers whose life has lost all meaning now that the character of Beth is dead. I for one enjoyed Beth and I must say I Iiked how they used her all during season three.

 

As for acting, I am a church and school play thespian, so you know I know what I am talking about here. On a show like the walking where the cast is large and the chances of an Emmy for acting are slim to none. You give the director what they want. You do Spencer Tracy, via James Garner "His idea was to be on time, know your words, hit your marks and tell the truth. Most every actor tries to make it something it isn't [or] looks for the easy way out. I don't think acting is that difficult if you can put yourself aside and do what the writer wrote."

 

Then if people like you, your publicist can spin the creation myth of your greatness.

[AngelaHunter]

 I believe it was James Cagney who gave that advice:

 

Learn your lines ... plant your feet ... look the other actor in the eye ... say the words ... mean them.

 

Sorry to butt in, but I'm a huge Cagney fan.  Maybe Spencer Tracy said the same thing, of course.

 

As you were!

[Emily Thrace]

For me Emily was the ONLY regular cast member who could not do justice to her character. I also can't reconcile sexism charges about a character who was a walking Disney princess and her fans liked her that way. Blink once for drunk, twice for sober. Look carefully or you'll miss it. She played a damsel in distress and got a piggyback ride from Daryl, got him to hold hands with doe eyes in full effect. Calling her eventual death sexism seems to be grasping at straws.

A large number of fans want Father Pee Pants, Tyrese and Abraham dead and buried. Why is that not sexism? And as annoying as these characters can be, the actors play them convincingly.

Except for a lot Beths haters their reasons are more about shipping or fanon than anything else. Thats what actually almost funny about "beth fans only like her because of Darryl" accusation. Cuz, Beth definitely had a few fans before Still but she really didn't have many hater either. If she had been paired with Rick I suspect several of her most vocal haters probably wouldn't have given a damn about the character either way. The hate for Beth is OTT considering what the character has done, especially considering the heinous acts commited by others on the show. I'm not saying hating on Beth is sexist (although using gendered insults like"princess" can be) shipper wars are pretty equal opportunity. I think I was just hoping some might see past the hate and be objective about the sexism tptb are showing. That's why I brought Lori and Andrea into it because there was definite sexism in thier stories too and if the writers did it to them why is it so hard to believe Beth is any different?

When I brought up Beth role in season three I was reffering to sexism on the writers part not the groups (Although I do think there was some sexism within the group itself. Otherwise Andrea wouldn't have been trying so hard to prove herself). I'm saying that the writers choice to have Beth hold the baby instead of a gun in season three was sexist on their part. Its a choice that would never have happened if Beth had been Ben. Hell they had a Ben on the show who was around Beths age (he was part of Ty's original group) and he was shown doing more fighting than his father.I'm not saying Beth needed to be as active as her sister but she could have done more easily.

I also think even when you remove Darryl from the equation Beth death is still sexist. It all goes back to the same question of why Beth. Afterall why not kill Noah or Carol? It simple they wanted to get the biggest emotional reaction out of audience and thought the pretty young blond would get that best. Its the same trope behind Missing White Women syndrome or why women are more likely to die a bloody death in horror as rule. Its a nasty trend and means making women victims when there is no need to.

I do think Gimple and Kirkman have bungled explaining Beth's death . For one their version don't match each other or anyone elses I think Kirkman has actually contradicted himself at one point. I get that they didn't expect Beth to get involvement they did but by not having a clear message in the aftermath the come off as flippant at best and liars at worst. I actually think the lack of acknowledgement at this point is simply to avoid fanning the flames. That said I wouldn't be shocked if we get a reddit post that offers some backstage drama reason for it all in a year or so. That what happened the last time the writers(in this case on Boardwalk Empire) killed someone off in defiance of all story logic.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Emily Thrace

[Ocean Chick]

Except for a lot Beths haters their reasons are more about shipping or fanon than anything else.

 

 

Do you have a copy of the poll that shows that to be a fact?  Or is it merely your opinion?  Because I'm not a shipper, but I have no problem with Beth's death and thought it was time for her to go.  If she had been paired with Rick after the prison and had the same amount of camera time and story line, I'd probably still want her gone.  She was fine as a background character, seen in small doses.  But when they tried to give her more screen time and an actual storyline, that's when I decided I would be happy with her gone.  EK just couldn't step up her game.  And for a show that's killed off so many better actors (JB, MR, DM, LH, SWC and SW, just to mention a few), having a low rent actress remain season after season just grated on my nerves.

 

I'm not saying hating on Beth is sexist (although using gendered insults like"princess" can be) shipper wars are pretty equal opportunity.

 

 

Hmmmmmmm - "princess" vs "mud hag".  I wonder which insult is worse?  My best friend calls me princess, which I take as an honor.  Why is princess so bad?  Most little girls want to be a princess.  Disney in a multi-million dollar business built on that concept.

 

It all goes back to the same question of why Beth. Afterall why not kill Noah or Carol?

 

 

My question is why NOT Beth?  Is there any reason she should have lived over Noah or Carol?  They both have just as much story left to tell as Beth, and MMB can out act/tell better than EK.  I don't know the actor playing Noah (haven't seen his work at all), but he seems to be a decent actor from what I've seen.

 

Its a nasty trend and means making women victims when there is no need to.

 

 

But killing off Carol doesn't make women victims?  She's not a woman?  So are you saying that the show can no longer kill ANY woman, otherwise they're sexist?  But what if they only kill men - doesn't that make the show sexist as well?  I'm confused.

 

That said I wouldn't be shocked if we get a reddit post that offers some backstage drama reason for it all in a year or so. That what happened the last time the writers(in this case on Boardwalk Empire) killed someone off in defiance of all story logic.

 

 

Or maybe the writers/directors just got tired of having an actress on the show that they couldn't do anything epic with story-wise, as she wasn't strong enough.  And they needed a death to show that this world is still dangerous (and not just because of the walkers).  Ergo, Beth is up for death.  Sometimes hoof prints mean you see a horse, not a zebra.  Occam's Razor.

[NoWillToResist]

. I'm saying that the writers choice to have Beth hold the baby instead of a gun in season three was sexist on their part. Its a choice that would never have happened if Beth had been Ben.

 

Is it sexist or simply realistic, considering Beth's life? Should the writers ignore the extreme likelihood that an old, southern Christian man would shelter, shield and protect his young daughter?  Is it sexist to show that some women are more gentle and fall on the 'nurturing' spectrum rather than the ass-kicking one? There are all kinds of women in the world; I think this show has done a decent job at showing that variety. Tyreese would rather hold a baby than a gun. Father Gabriel would rather hide until it all goes away...are these sexist characterizations or just another example of TPTB showing that men and women come in all shapes, sizes, personalities, backgrounds, skills and strengths?

 

 

 

I also think even when you remove Darryl from the equation Beth death is still sexist. It all goes back to the same question of why Beth. Afterall why not kill Noah or Carol?

 

Everyone's clock is ticking. Why NOT Beth this time? Why do they kill any of the people they kill? Before this season is done, I'm sure another character will bite the dust. The show ain't shy about killing off their characters. I'm just not sure I understand the charge of Beth's death being sexist. This show is pretty equal opportunity as far as killing off both men and women, IMO. Perhaps when the show returns, Beth's death will just end up being used to further Daryl or Rick's story rather than Maggie's, but for now, I will wait and see how it plays out.

 

Quite honestly, I have been fucking AMAZED at the outcry over Beth's death because she was such a non entity to me and everyone I know who watches the show. No other female character has had such a reaction. Not even the tragic loss of younger, blonder girls had led to such uproar.  

Edited January 27, 2015 by NoWillToResist

[ghoulina]

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I will go on record as saying - I don't HATE Beth. I don't really have an issue with the character herself. She was not compelling enough to be a favorite, but she didn't elicit a strong, negative reaction like Andrea or The Guv. She didn't really bother me at all prior to season 4. But once they started giving her a lot more to do, after the fall of the prison, I would say I became mildly annoyed. And again, it wasn't the character herself - it was the actress. We all have different opinions on this and could go round and round for days, but EK was a very weak actress. I could never fully get into her scenes, because I found her awkward posing and stilted speech to be really distracting. 

 

And my disdain for her definitely had nothing to do with Daryl. It's no secret that I'm a huge Carol fan and IF he had to be with anyone, I'd prefer it be her. But I also am pretty anti-ship, and don't really want to see a bunch of people pairing up. It just feels forced and trite to me. And beyond that, I just didn't see anything between Beth and Daryl more than friendship. But, no, Daryl doesn't really factor into my issue with Beth. If she had been with Rick...or Carl...or Glenn....and was given a whole damn bunch of lines, I'd be just as annoyed, because she simply cannot pull off being anything more than a background character. 

 

And, honestly, I find the idea that Beth detractors are reacting based on their love for Daryl or Daryl-with-Carol, to be pretty sexist itself. 

Edited January 27, 2015 by ghoulina

[bosawks]

Quite honestly, I have been fucking AMAZED at the outcry over Beth's death because she was such a non entity to me and everyone I know who watches the show. No other female character has had such a reaction. Not even the tragic loss of younger, blonder girls had led to such uproar.

That's an interesting point. "The Grove" was stellar and the death of Mika and Lizzie played out as tragedy. The mid season finale was not in the same league dramatically and the death of Beth played out as farce.

Would there have been this type of uproar if her episode carried the dramatic weight of "The Grove"?

[Timetoread]

I'm glad she's gone.  Honestly, and watch the fandom dissolve into self immolation in protest, I wouldn't lose much sleep if Daryl died either - he's alright but not a favorite.  I don't particularly care for Carol or Melissa McBride acting as Carol either.  Glen's been boring lately.  Rick's beard is making me gag and pray for safety.  Pee pants must die or else.  Tyrese, I got a bullet with your name on it.  Judith is crazy cute, but really what good is she for the next 15 years or so?  Maggie says no words except "Glen".  Sasha, kinda boring too.  Abraham's hair is too red.  Eugene's hair is too mullet.  Michonne is my fave so I'd wince a bit at that one.  Carl however, for some reason I can't fully articulate, is the only character whose death would leave me inconsolable.  But other than that, when we signed on - after just one season - we saw that the actual point of it is that NO ONE IS SAFE.  By definition apocalypse means that everybody dies.  And death isn't sexist or racist or ageist or any ist.  This is just a group of people who keep running until death catches them.  I'm sorry EK's fans didn't figure that out in four and a half seasons, but if they are true, they can follow her to her next project. 

[Haleth]

Quite honestly, I have been fucking AMAZED at the outcry over Beth's death because she was such a non entity to me and everyone I know who watches the show.

I'm on this train. To me she was just there, not a very well developed character. As a character she didn't bother me, we all know teenage girls who are sweet but very naive and somewhat entitled. It's nice the actress had a story arc but it seems natural that without her father or sister or any friend to protect her Beth was doomed. Her death didnt move me.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Haleth

[halgia]

Stop talking about Beth fans. Talk about the show. The moratorium is still in place, and when people go places they're not supposed to go bad things happen.

[Nashville]

Personally, I've had the impression Beth's tenure on the show exceeded the writers' initial expectations. After Beth's unsuccessful suicide attempt, I'd originally expected her character to exit stage right shortly thereafter - either through infection/complications, a second more successful suicide attempt by her own hand, or death by walker. I've always halfway wondered if (a) a modest Beth bump in the character popularity polls had Production deciding to keep the character around a leetle while longer, but (b) they never could figure out exactly what to DO with her. And after a while they got tired of trying to think up something - and the Beth-associated ratings bump was never THAT big - so they put her down with a bullet to the head.

[NoWillToResist]

 I've always halfway wondered if (a) a modest Beth bump in the character popularity polls had Production deciding to keep the character around a leetle while longer, but (b) they never could figure out exactly what to DO with her. And after a while they got tired of trying to think up something - and the Beth-associated ratings bump was never THAT big - so they put her down with a bullet to the head.

 

I may be muddling the timelines a bit but I'm sure I've read that TPTB were writing Beth's death well before the Beth-heavy post-prison eps aired. If I'm remembering that correctly, then her death was planned long before those eps brought Beth into the limelight, increasing the character's popularity.

 

I would, however, like to know whether TPTB had decided to kill Beth off when they were writing those post-prison episodes. Like, did they intentionally write some Beth-heavy stuff in order to give her impending death more punch to the audience and other characters (like they did with Bob)? Or did they just decide to kill a character in the MSF, put a bunch of character photos on a dart board, threw a dart at it blindfolded and the character photo which got the dart would be killed? :)

[CletusMusashi]

I'll accept that they spent a long time intending her death. But as for actually writing it, I think they spent about two or three minutes, tops.

[Bongo Fury]

I would, however, like to know whether TPTB had decided to kill Beth off when they were writing those post-prison episodes. Like, did they intentionally write some Beth-heavy stuff in order to give her impending death more punch to the audience and other characters (like they did with Bob)? Or did they just decide to kill a character in the MSF, put a bunch of character photos on a dart board, threw a dart at it blindfolded and the character photo which got the dart would be killed? :)

 

I sure as hell hope that TPTB have this series laid out in broad form at least for the next several seasons. They CAN'T just be making it up as they go along. Can they? This sure as fuck better not turn out to be another LOST.

 

For example, I would think that when S4 ended they were looking at something like this for S5a:

* CDB escapes from Terminus, Carol achieves redemption in the process and is accepted back into the group. 

* The survivors of Terminus take on the role of The Hunters from the comic, Bob = Dale.

* Resolve he Beth storyline w/ Beth dying in the MSF.

 

And then the writers fill in the details and they shoot it. I would hope that in hashing out the details, it was rare that the filmed version deviated from the outline. I hope they have a plan here, I hope they have a story to tell, and I sure hope they aren't just making it up as they go along.

[Mu Shu]

So, did Beff ever make it on Sharknado?  Ahm still not a gonna eat that mud snake.     

[CletusMusashi]

IT WAS A RATTLESNAKE!!!

In no southern dialect whatsoever are rattlesnakes referred to as "mud snakes!"

The "actual" mud snake is Farancia abacura, a big, fat, beautiful, completely harmless, glossy-black salamander-eater with brightly-colored belly markings that extend up onto its lower sides. But as much as I love snakes, I'm not a nazi about regional common names not being as organized as taxonomists would prefer them to be. I'd be wide open to, for example, the idea that whatever neighborhood Beth grew up in had a strange habit of calling water snakes "mud snakes." But a solid-land species from a group that pretty much anybody who knows there is more than one type of snake can easily identify? That's just moronic. 

I've been holding this herpetology rant back forever. But now that I've let it just run its course, all I can say is... Daryl... you tried. You really honestly did as much as you could with the material you were given. Not knowing the difference between a baby mud snake and an adult ringneck? Sometimes that can be confusing. But a terrestrial, dull, blotchy, triangular-headed thing with really rough scales and a rattle on its tail is probably not a mud snake. This is like mistaking a great horned owl for a sparrow hawk.

Daryl got off easy. Dawn also tried to teach Beth, Now Dawn is dead and everyone who she occasionally cared about in moments of sanity is trapped in the same lollicop nightmare they always were, but with all the extra chaos that comes with a power vacuum. 

Although actually... speaking of power vacuums... there could be one Lorde HandyManne holed up in there, who steals most of the intelligent people into his secret organization, running and maintaining all the equipment, while the rejects try to run the asylum. 

Scary thing is: that might still be the best system we've seen yet on this god damn show.

Edited February 1, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[CarpeDiem54]

Great rant, Cletus!

[kikismom]

IT WAS A RATTLESNAKE!!!

In no southern dialect whatsoever are rattlesnakes referred to as "mud snakes!"

The "actual" mud snake is Farancia abacura, a big, fat, beautiful, completely harmless, glossy-black salamander-eater with brightly-colored belly markings that extend up onto its lower sides. But as much as I love snakes, I'm not a nazi about regional common names not being as organized as taxonomists would prefer them to be. I'd be wide open to, for example, the idea that whatever neighborhood Beth grew up in had a strange habit of calling water snakes "mud snakes." But a solid-land species from a group that pretty much anybody who knows there is more than one type of snake can easily identify? That's just moronic. 

I've been holding this herpetology rant back forever. But now that I've let it just run its course, all I can say is... Daryl... you tried. You really honestly did as much as you could with the material you were given. Not knowing the difference between a baby mud snake and an adult ringneck? Sometimes that can be confusing. But a terrestrial, dull, blotchy, triangular-headed thing with really rough scales and a rattle on its tail is probably not a mud snake. This is like mistaking a great horned owl for a sparrow hawk.

 

 

Thank you.

[AngelaHunter]

a rattle on its tail is probably not a mud snake.

 

Yeah, the rattle was pretty much a give away, even to people who can't normally tell a garter snake from a gardenia. I do remember being confused and wondering, "What's a mud snake?" and thinking perhaps it was a regional label for a rattlesnake which I still found odd.

 

Daryl got off easy. Dawn also tried to teach Beth, Now Dawn is dead and everyone who she occasionally cared about in moments of sanity is trapped in the same lollicop nightmare they always were, but with all the extra chaos that comes with a power vacuum.

 

 

Excellent summation of why that arc was pointless.

 

 

 

Not even the tragic loss of younger, blonder girls had led to such uproar.

 

True! Hahaha!!

[Watcher0363]

For the perfect parody on what a writer writes, what the director infers from the written word and what they can afford to put on the screen. See SG-1's "Wormhole Xtreme"

 

Martin Lloyd (Willie Garson): Okay, scene 23 takes place on another planet. So do you think aliens eat apples?
Crew Member: Why not? They speak English.

 

Director (Peter DeLuise): We've already established that one shot stuns and two shots kills. Nick just shot everybody twice.
Martin: So, three shots disintegrates them.
Director: You know what? I'm going to pretend you didn't say that, because that is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard you say.

 

Director: Because you're "out of phase".
Yolanda: So, how come I don't fall through the floor?

Martin: Never ask a writer where he gets his ideas. In truth, we don't know.

[SoSueMe]

I'm watching TWD marathon right now and it has reminded me how much I hated Lori. Analyzing my hate, I find some of it is due to the good job the actress did of portraying a bitch. I hated the character of Beth for exactly the opposite reason. EK did an awful job, imo. 

[shanndee]

You know, I am finding it amazing that EK has managed to do exactly what Katia Winter has done on Sleepy Hollow (that is, kept us talking about them both when things should have been laid to rest)

 

Both women portrayed characters that were not objectionable when they were in the background as minor characters. Then their characters were given more to do and the weakness of the actresses became very apparent to a large section of the audience. They both slowed the plot. At least Beth was killed. I'm afraid Katrina will be the death of Sleepy Hollow.

 

Both characters were minor, but they have both been divisive and they both have the fan base talking.

 

Interesting.

[GreyBunny]

Yeah, the rattle was pretty much a give away, even to people who can't normally tell a garter snake from a gardenia. I do remember being confused and wondering, "What's a mud snake?" and thinking perhaps it was a regional label for a rattlesnake which I still found odd.

What irks me is some people call garter snakes "gardner" snakes.  Ugh!  I thought a mud snake was some kind of cousin to the water moccasin, I never would have guessed they were using the name for a rattler.

 

the Beth-associated ratings bump was never THAT big - so they put her down with a bullet to the head.

 

Over at Rotten Tomatoes "Slabtown" is the worst rated episode of season 5.  Heh. 

Beth was always a redshirt, they wouldn't have hired an older actress to play a teen if they meant to have the character stick around.  She should have remained a background character because she was horrible as a main character and the actress couldn't pull her own weight. Gimple flat-out said he didn't want to write for Beth anymore and I don't blame him. 

 

Putting a bullet in Beth's head was a mercy killing.

[CletusMusashi]

 

Both women portrayed characters that were not objectionable when they were in the background as minor characters. 

Blasphemy! Katrina was always boring! She's the main reason I quit bothering to watch that show. Beth, even when she was singing, never actually made me contemplate giving up on the show. I may have thought she was an idiot sometimes, like in that "Hey, wouldn't it be therapeutic to burn down our shelter in the middle of the night so we can walk through these dark zombie-filled woods" crapfest, but even that wasn't boring. It was just stupid. The only main character TWD has had that was almost as boring as Katrina was Bob.

I think a better character to compare her to might be Tara. Tara is young, female, cute, optimistic, prone to short-term foot injuries, and willing to fight but not really what you would call a hardened badass. Also, Tara is single. Oh, obviously the shipping possibilities are different. I don't see Tara ending up with Daryl, that's for sure. But single characters are characters who you can stick into whatever adventure you want without triggering off a bunch Glenn-and-Maggie type angst. So it's a really valuable niche for the writer to have someone in. But two someones in too similar a set of demographics might be more than they need. Beth may have been rendered somewhat redundant by the fact that, ultimately, Tara was a better "Beth" than Beth was.

Edited February 2, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[kikismom]

 

Tara was a better "Beth" than Beth was.

Alas, Father Gabriel is not a better "Dale" than Dale was.

[CletusMusashi]

Dale was also killed for redundancy. They had Heschel taking over the Kindly Old Guy role, plus they still had Lori to cover the Big Googly Eyes role. That doctor at Grady knew exactly how this show works. 

Edited February 2, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[CletusMusashi]

Alas, Father Gabriel is not a better "Dale" than Dale was.

I think Father Gabriel is the new Lori.

[GreyBunny]

Nah, Lori was Lady MacBeth. Father Gabriel is a coward but he isn't mean and he knows where Carl is.

I think Tyreese is more "Dale" than Gabriel.  It seems like Tyreese and Glenn are dividing the moral compass duties.

 

Tara was a better "Beth" than Beth was.

 

Even though Tara is in the grown-up slot and Beth was just a kid, yeah.  If there's a young woman trying to navigate the ZA world I'd much rather it be Tara than Beth.  

Edited February 2, 2015 by GreyBunny

[NorthstarATL]

 

I think a better character to compare her to might be Tara. Tara is young, female, cute, optimistic, prone to short-term foot injuries, and willing to fight but not really what you would call a hardened badass. Also, Tara is single. Oh, obviously the shipping possibilities are different. I don't see Tara ending up with Daryl, that's for sure. But single characters are characters who you can stick into whatever adventure you want without triggering off a bunch Glenn-and-Maggie type angst. So it's a really valuable niche for the writer to have someone in. But two someones in too similar a set of demographics might be more than they need. Beth may have been rendered somewhat redundant by the fact that, ultimately, Tara was a better "Beth" than Beth was.

Tara is gay. So she fills a demographic and "shipping" possibilities that are different than Beth's. I just re-watched Beth throwing her pig-tailed self on her zombie mom. She outlived her sell-buy date by quite a few seasons based upon that scene alone.

[BrokenRemote]

Blasphemy! Katrina was always boring! She's the main reason I quit bothering to watch that show. Beth, even when she was singing, never actually made me contemplate giving up on the show. I may have thought she was an idiot sometimes, like in that "Hey, wouldn't it be therapeutic to burn down our shelter in the middle of the night so we can walk through these dark zombie-filled woods" crapfest, but even that wasn't boring. It was just stupid. The only main character TWD has had that was almost as boring as Katrina was Bob.

I think a better character to compare her to might be Tara. Tara is young, female, cute, optimistic, prone to short-term foot injuries, and willing to fight but not really what you would call a hardened badass. Also, Tara is single. Oh, obviously the shipping possibilities are different. I don't see Tara ending up with Daryl, that's for sure. But single characters are characters who you can stick into whatever adventure you want without triggering off a bunch Glenn-and-Maggie type angst. So it's a really valuable niche for the writer to have someone in. But two someones in too similar a set of demographics might be more than they need. Beth may have been rendered somewhat redundant by the fact that, ultimately, Tara was a better "Beth" than Beth was.

Yeah, but if Beth had suddenly become the main focus of the show with all the others acting out of character and spending half their diminished screen time discussing how great Beth was, it would have been just as bad as Sleepy Hollow! :D

[shanndee]

*snorts with laughter*

 

Hey, I wasn't talking about shipping or the stupidity of the characters (although we could go on for days on those tow topics! :D ). I was merely noticing how two very weak actors who portrayed poorly developed characters have managed to divide two fan bases. We're also all talking about these weak actors long after we should have moved on. 

 

How did people with so little talent get so much power?

 

Anyway, carry on! :D

[NoWillToResist]

Beth was always a redshirt, they wouldn't have hired an older actress to play a teen if they meant to have the character stick around.  . 

 

Dumb question: was Beth in the graphic novel, or was she, like Daryl, an invention of the show?

 

I'm not sure I agree that Beth was meant to be disposable because she's an adult playing a teen since, especially with TWD's long filming schedule, puberty fucks with continuity. That said, it blew my mind to find out that EK is 29. My husband honestly thought I was lying when I told him that. :)  I had to pull up her IMDB profile before he would believe me. And I don't even blame him! :)  EK needs to go to one of those "guess my age" booths at carnivals and clean them out! :D

Edited February 2, 2015 by NoWillToResist

[BrokenRemote]

But wouldn't  you think, considering how fast the actors playing Carl and Judith (I know, several babies) are growing, that if they'd planned Beth for the long haul they'd have wanted someone about 15 or so that we could really see growing up?  I don't know that it's definitive, just feels like one reason of many why the character hasn't seemed like she was meant to live on in anything but our hearts.

[Mu Shu]

Mud snake is on the idiot writers, not Betthily. Still ain't a eatin' this mud snake, no how. Maybe she meant murdered snake? Muscular snake? "Ahm not eating muh (my) snake. ??

[NoWillToResist]

But wouldn't  you think, considering how fast the actors playing Carl and Judith (I know, several babies) are growing, that if they'd planned Beth for the long haul they'd have wanted someone about 15 or so that we could really see growing up?  I don't know that it's definitive, just feels like one reason of many why the character hasn't seemed like she was meant to live on in anything but our hearts.

 

I think that since Beth wasn't a main character like Carl, TPTB probably thought they'd hit the jackpot when EK walked in to audition for Beth. She looks ridiculously young - believably so, too - with none of the downsides of using a young actress (schooling issues, industry restrictions on shooting hours, puberty issues etc.)

 

Since i don't know if Beth is a character in the graphic novel, I don't know whether her time was cut short, kept on target, or if it's not applicable because she was an invention for the show.

[Nashville]

You know, I am finding it amazing that EK has managed to do exactly what Katia Winter has done on Sleepy Hollow (that is, kept us talking about them both when things should have been laid to rest)

 

Both women portrayed characters that were not objectionable when they were in the background as minor characters. Then their characters were given more to do and the weakness of the actresses became very apparent to a large section of the audience. They both slowed the plot. At least Beth was killed. I'm afraid Katrina will be the death of Sleepy Hollow.

 

Both characters were minor, but they have both been divisive and they both have the fan base talking.

 

Interesting.

At least Katrina can rock a nice corset. Beth could've never pulled off that look.

[RedheadZombie]

I've read that Hershel actually had many children - none of whom were named Beth.

 

I watched some season two episodes last night.  I've posted that I think the character of Beth actually regressed over time, and I now also believe that EK's acting abilities regressed as well.  She was able to emote misery and hopelessness  during her suicidal moments, and did tears pretty well.  There was also the moment when she showed a mean girl we've never before seen in Beth, by cruelly asking Lori why she got pregnant.

[Bongo Fury]

Beth is purely a TV character, no similar character in the comics or game.

[kj4ever]

I'm on this train. To me she was just there, not a very well developed character. As a character she didn't bother me, we all know teenage girls who are sweet but very naive and somewhat entitled. It's nice the actress had a story arc but it seems natural that without her father or sister or any friend to protect her Beth was doomed. Her death didnt move me.

Same here, except I was starting to get interested in her character once she was taken out of the protected and coddled environment.  So just when she was getting interesting the kill her.  Boo show, Boo.

[Milaxx]

I may be muddling the timelines a bit but I'm sure I've read that TPTB were writing Beth's death well before the Beth-heavy post-prison eps aired. If I'm remembering that correctly, then her death was planned long before those eps brought Beth into the limelight, increasing the character's popularity.

 

I would, however, like to know whether TPTB had decided to kill Beth off when they were writing those post-prison episodes. Like, did they intentionally write some Beth-heavy stuff in order to give her impending death more punch to the audience and other characters (like they did with Bob)? Or did they just decide to kill a character in the MSF, put a bunch of character photos on a dart board, threw a dart at it blindfolded and the character photo which got the dart would be killed? :)

 

IIRC they had indeed been planning her death for at least a year prior. I think the increased screen time was an attempt to make her a well rounded character so that people cared when she died instead of leaving her as some vague red shirt like Jacqui or half the Woodbury folks were (Tyreese's girlfriend Karen included).

You know, I am finding it amazing that EK has managed to do exactly what Katia Winter has done on Sleepy Hollow (that is, kept us talking about them both when things should have been laid to rest)

 

Both women portrayed characters that were not objectionable when they were in the background as minor characters. Then their characters were given more to do and the weakness of the actresses became very apparent to a large section of the audience. They both slowed the plot. At least Beth was killed. I'm afraid Katrina will be the death of Sleepy Hollow.

 

Both characters were minor, but they have both been divisive and they both have the fan base talking.

 

Interesting.

I call Katrina the Beth of Sleepy Hollow all the time. Both characters have stayed well beyond their expiration point and many find their increased screen time annoying as it takes a way from characters that many want to see.

 

Dumb question: was Beth in the graphic novel, or was she, like Daryl, an invention of the show?

 

I'm not sure I agree that Beth was meant to be disposable because she's an adult playing a teen since, especially with TWD's long filming schedule, puberty fucks with continuity. That said, it blew my mind to find out that EK is 29. My husband honestly thought I was lying when I told him that. :)  I had to pull up her IMDB profile before he would believe me. And I don't even blame him! :)  EK needs to go to one of those "guess my age" booths at carnivals and clean them out! :D

As mentioned Beth does not exist in the comic books.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Milaxx

[NoWillToResist]

 There was also the moment when she showed a mean girl we've never before seen in Beth, by cruelly asking Lori why she got pregnant.

 

Well, really though, weren't we ALL thinking that? :D

 

Beth is purely a TV character, no similar character in the comics or game.

 

Ah, many thanks. So, I'll stick with my theory that the character of Beth got increased screen time/development/attention for the sole purpose of trying to give her death impact (like Bob). Had they killed her off before the fall of the prison, I doubt it would have made a blip on most people's radar. MMV, naturally.

 

I'm just disappointed that that they didn't give her a death that resulted in an emotional reaction from me. I mean, I barely gave a fuck about Bob, but the little development he was given before he got bitten made me care about him and I was sad to see him go. His death was kind of random and unnecessary but not surprising for the ZA.

 

But for Beth, TPTB had her, in a fit of pique, stab an armed person with itty bitty scissors which would in no way do any real damage. Her death was only shocking to me in its stupidity. There were any number of ways they could have taken Beth out without making me want to roll my damned eyes. If they were going to give her such a shitty exit, I'm kind of annoyed that they wasted time on expanding her character. She'd been getting stronger and more pro-active yet, rather than die during their escape attempt, or while defending a patient, or while fighting one of the bad cops - anything which MIGHT make me actually go "awwww, well good for her for trying!" - she gets taken out by Dawn because she doesn't know that gun beats scissors every time. Bah.

Edited February 4, 2015 by NoWillToResist

[TallulahBelle]

I'm just disappointed that that they didn't give her a death that resulted in an emotional reaction from me. I mean, I barely gave a fuck about Bob, but the little development he was given before he got bitten made me care about him and I was sad to see him go. His death was kind of random and unnecessary but not surprising for the ZA.

 

Where I think her death is going to bring that emotional impact, is coming up - in how the group is in the next ep and on.  I didn't particularly react to her death, but I did react to Maggie falling to her knees in grief (I also subscribe to the belief that Maggie not mentioning her sister or her father in the time after the fall of the prison was her not wanting to verbalise her sorrow and loss, although I agree that the writers and LC could have SHOWN us a little of it, even just blank thousand yard stares etc).  I felt it in Carol and Daryl's faces and the look of shock on Rick's face immediately after she died.  I didn't dislike Beth, I just felt no connection to her as a character but I do think the loss of her will impact this group - it has to, because regardless of how tough and hardened they've become, they lost one of theirs and someone who had been one of theirs for a while.  I hope that we get to see them all grieve, especially Maggie (and in the trailers I've seen, she appears to certainly be doing that).  That, I think, will engender an emotional reaction to Beth dying (for me, at least - mileage, etc.)

Edited February 4, 2015 by TallulahBelle

[NoWillToResist]

In a way, I suppose I shouldn't be comparing Beth's death to Bob's because he knew it was coming whereas Beth didn't (though one could argue that she should have thought it was a possible outcome of her actions). I'm sure that the upcoming eps will show how Beth's death has impacted the others, but I guess I was hoping for more of a...personal?...reaction when she died, just based on the loss of Beth herself. I mean, she was a sweet kid.

 

I cried when Mika died; I found her death to be utterly horrifying and traumatic. Cheering when Lori died may not have been my proudest moment but at least I felt something at her death. Whereas I'm not really sure that I'd count my "WTF? Pfft, whatever" at Beth's passing as much of a reaction.

 

Naturally those left behind will pull the majority of the emotional reaction, but normally the loss itself garners more of a reaction from me, whether it's the method of death or sadness at the loss of the character...but Beth's passing failed on both counts for me.

[RedheadZombie]

Well, really though, weren't we ALL thinking that? :D

 

Well, it was a bitch move considering Lori was only trying to help Beth.  Lori not only performed CPR on Hershel, she saved Beth three times.  First when she realized Beth was hiding the knife, second when she broke into the bathroom where Beth had slit her wrist, and third when she pulled her out of Patricia's arms.  Maybe this is why Beth was so devoted to caring for Judith.

 

I actually like this snotty version of Beth better than what she became.  No way was season two Beth - the one who calls her father clueless, criticizes his character, sasses a pregnant woman who's only trying to help her, and tries to guilt her sister into a suicide pact --- no way is this girl so ridiculously naïve that she thinks it's a priority to experience liquor in the midst of running for your life, while accompanied by a checked out man-child, or stupid enough to prove she's a rebel by burning her only shelter, and flipping off the building that did nothing but provide shelter.  In other words, I feel they took a real teenager and morphed her into a Disney princess simpleton.  She's a farmer's daughter.  She's been wringing chicken's necks, helping castrate animals, and the rest of the physical labor that comes from being a farmer, but takes cuticle cutters to a gun fight.

 

I never disliked Beth until this last season.  And now I realize I only dislike her because they changed her for the worse, and regressed the character.

[Nashville]

The moral of Beth's death: Don't bring scissors to a gunfight.