Beth: You're going to miss me when I'm gone...

[kikismom]

In this picture, everyone is smiling...except NR.

 

Where is EK's right hand?

[Pete Martell]

I don't remember that scene either, actually. Huh. 

 

I think that the show built Beth up to kill her off. For shock value and Daryl's pain and loss of innocence, and so on. I don't feel like they tested her and she failed. Beth became a popular character (in some places), so I don't think that is why they pulled the trigger (no pun intended). I just wish they'd handled a lot of things differently if she had to go. But I've started trying to keep quiet about this because some of the behavior in fandom got so crazy I just detached entirely. To be honest with you this is the only TWD place I even go to now, which makes me feel kind of sad. 

[Watcher0363]

The last straw for me was when she is kidnapped, bashed on the head, held captive and forced to participate in horrible things like dumping dying people into an elevator full of flesh-eating dead, slapped around, harassed, and molested, and then when told she better come across with something useful for her captors, she says "I can SING! "

Okay, I have to call foul on this one. It did not quite go down that way. But anyway by the time she ended up at Grady, she had seen stuff that would make her Grady time seem like a picnic. She saw her mother turn, then she saw Shane shooting bullets in her while screaming rhetorical questions at her dad. Voting on whether to hang an somewhat innocent person. Ready to share a can of dog food with Carl. Watching her dad's leg being amputated. Suffered through 3 attacks on the prison the last one from a tank. I am sure to Beth the Grady people were just another kind of not nice people. Or perhaps she was all Maya Angelou in her head and was in the mind set of "I know why the caged bird sings." Third option, she knew her snowflake powers would soon win the day and she would be headlining karaoke night at G to R to A to the DY. While the other wards chanted sing machine, sing machine, sing machine.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Watcher0363

[kikismom]

^^^^^

You left the reverb switch on again. and again.

[weightyghost]

The marathon over New Years made me still wonder about the relationship between Beth and Maggie. In season 2, Maggie notes that her 'step mother' is in the barn, along with her step brother. We see Beth crying over her own mother. If I recall correctly, Maggie has talked about her own mother being gone long before the apocalypse. Which makes it seem like Maggie and Beth were step-sisters, not blood related. 

 

However, Hershel always was indicated as both their father (never step-). It's possible then that they are half siblings, but that means Maggie's mother would have died, and Hershel re-married within 6 years (as I think there's a 6-7 year difference between Maggie and Beth) which I suppose isn't that hard to believe. In that case, Maggie would still consider Beth's mom to be her step mother right. However, her calling it a step-brother indicates that Beth also should be a step- sibling, unless Hershel married for a 3rd time at some point. Or Maggie was born first, step brother born, Hershel + step mother married, Beth being born. 

 

Am I overcomplicating this? Or were they never clear on it? 

 

Re: Beth being set up for a bigger storyline - this was her storyline. In a show that speeds through things, having a half season dedicated to mostly her character, that was her set up. Every character has a chance for a larger storyline, and I don't think she was robbed of that. If like, Rosita was killed, I would say she was robbed of growing as a character. But Beth has been around for 3 years now. She has grown. She had her time. I don't really feel like one character is more deserving than another, despite my desire to see some over others.

[AngelaHunter]

Watching her dad's leg being amputated.

 

Let us not forget dad's amputated head.

[ghoulina]

Not to nitpick, but Beth didn't actually see Herschel's leg being amputated. Rick did that while they were all still down in the cafeteria, and Beth was back up in the cell block. She did see him bleeding out and losing consciousness shortly thereafter, though. And yes, I agree she'd seen a lot of traumatizing shit and slapping someone over the crease in a uniform was probably small potatoes in comparison.

[Bongo Fury]

Am I overcomplicating this? Or were they never clear on it? 

 

I don't know how I 'know' it but Maggie and Beth being daughters of Herschel with different mothers is a given. Whether Shawn was Beth's brother or half brother I never gave it much thought. But according to TWD wiki; Maggie's mother died when she was very young, Herschel remarried to a woman named Annette and they had a daughter named Beth, Shawn was Annette's son from a prior marriage. Annette and Shawn were barn walkers.

 

I'm not sure how accurate the source is, but it sounds pretty reasonable.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Bongo Fury

[Ocean Chick]

I had it all worked at at one point.  Maggie was 22 according to Glenn when we met her.  Beth was 16.  So a difference of 6 years. Maggie said she started acting out when her dad married Annette when she was 14 (smoking and shop lifting).  So Beth would have been 8 when Hershel and Annette married.  So the choices are:

 

1.  Maggie and Beth are half sisters, and Hershel waited 8 years after Beth was born before he married her mom.  Hard to believe that such a religious man would father a child out of wedlock and not marry the mom, but it happens.

 

2. Maggie and Beth are step sisters, and Beth has a different birth father.  It could be that her father was out of the picture early in Beth's life - maybe even before she was born - by death or just disinterest.  Therefore, if Hershel was the only father Beth knew, she could well refer to him as simply her father, and think of him that way as well.  Especially if Annette and Hershel dated for quite a while before getting married.

 

I, myself, am leaning towards #2.

[ghoulina]

I think they're supposed to be half-sisters, Hershel is father to both girls. But the writers, as per usual, were very careless with the details, so that when you add it all up it makes little sense. 

 

The only other option would be that they are full sisters, and Annette was stepmom to BOTH girls, but Beth was SO young when Hershel married her (two, according to the above?) that she just called her mom right away and had a much closer relationship to her. 

[mightysparrow]

Beth was strictly a plot device.  I think they knew she was going to die in season 5, just not how they were going to do it.  I also think they were taken by surprise when 'Bethyl' blew up since no one had even noticed Beth was on the show before.  They decided to run with it and built it up into this great love affair when all 'Still' and 'Alone' were REALLY about was Daryl's man-pain.

 

Meanwhile, poor little Emily Kinney thinks that all the hype was because of HER.  I think she really believed that she was finally going to get a chance to strut her stuff on the show and become a big star.  She really thinks she can act!!!  The script for 'Slabtown' must have made her wee head swell even larger.  And then, 'BOOM!!!!!!'.  She must have been devastated.  What makes it even sadder is that while she's writing 'Beth and Dary'l in her journal, Chandler had already figured out she wasn't long for this earth.  A child was hipper than she was. 

[Mu Shu]

Coral may be "hipper", but is he "Twitter verified"?  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.    I didn't think so. 

 

I think Daryl and Carol were supposed to be disposable characters, but the actors made something out of their roles.   Emily didn't.   Girl needs some serious acting lessons and more seasoning.   Problem is, she may look like an ingénue, but she's pushing thirty and has to fight off actual teens and early twentysomethings for roles.   It's hard out there for a Beth. 

[AngelaHunter]

I also think they were taken by surprise when 'Bethyl' blew up since no one had even noticed Beth was on the show before.  They decided to run with it and built it up into this great love affair when all 'Still' and 'Alone' were REALLY about was Daryl's man-pain.

 

Meanwhile, poor little Emily Kinney thinks that all the hype was because of HER.  I think she really believed that she was finally going to get a chance to strut her stuff on the show and become a big star.

 

Exactly. I've said it before (I think) that no one even noticed her much until "Still" (so the fangirls could bang Daryl vicariously) and wouldn't have given a shit about her life or death if not for that hope. This ridiculous outcry has nothing to do with her as a character in her own right.

 

After the prison, had she ended up wandering around, singin',  with Tyreese and the children, the fans STILL wouldn't have given much of a hoot about her.

 

And to "Strut her stuff" would require she have some stuff to strut, which, after being given every opportunity to shine, she lacked. I'm pretty sure even I could put on a better drunk act than she did and I'm no actress. Either she's talent-free or maybe we should think she was a secret alcoholic and all that moonshine didn't affect her in the least.

[kikismom]

Coral may be "hipper", but is he "Twitter verified"?  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.    I didn't think so. 

You just made me think of Holly Hunter in O Brother Where Art Thou? ---"He's bona fide!!"

**********************************************************************************************************

Not only Daryl and Carol were supposed to be temp characters; they've talked about how Jon Bernthal's performance made them scrap original plans to have Shane die early and kept him around at least for another season and probably gave his career a huge boost.

 

Tom Cruise has talked about how he was only a walk-on with a couple lines in Taps but he could see the actor couldn't do it and made sure he was ready to fill the better role.

You rarely get chances, look how old NR, MMB, are...they knew this was opportunity knocking and if they could impress it would change their lives. EK is 30 and ought to know better. Instead of ending up complaining about the lease on her apartment, she should have spent money on a scene coach, anything, to make the most out of this chance.

[Mu Shu]

If Emily were canny, she would start a youtube channel and make serious bucks from just walking around doing thangs 'n stuff.   People who have never been on TV are making a killing doing nothing but recording their boring daily life, and she has a built in network bein' a TV star and all.    Teen girls would hang on her every word, and fight in the comment section. 

 

Or, she could get a hostess gig at Chili's. 

[ghoulina]

I do these really cheesy aerobic dance workouts, the videos are from the 80s. One of the background girls totally reminds me of Beth. So there's an idea for EK....

[AngelaHunter]

Today. 4:46 pm

 

Quote

If Emily were canny, she would start a youtube channel and make serious bucks from just walking around doing thangs 'n stuff.   People who have never been on TV are making a killing doing nothing but recording their boring daily life, and she has a built in network bein' a TV star and all.

 

Excellent idea. After all, many people seem to be interested in the doings (and the ass) of that nasty skank, Kardashian, so why not? Maybe you should "Tweet" or "Twitter" or whatever,  your idea to Emily.

Edited January 9, 2015 by AngelaHunter

[Watcher0363]

As long as there are Comic Cons, Emily shall never go hungry nor need to don a peppy smile and a red apron. Emily "Drama" Kinney. Plus there is always a Sci Fi channel original movie with your name on it.

[AngelaHunter]

Plus there is always a Sci Fi channel original movie with your name on it.

 

Oh, darn, she missed "Sharknado", but I'm sure there are many other projects coming up that could use her talents.

[Nashville]

Oh, darn, she missed "Sharknado", but I'm sure there are many other projects coming up that could use her talents.

Actually, casting for Sharknado 3 DOES appear to be in the works....

[CletusMusashi]

Is it a musical?

[Nashville]

Hey, Emily! I heeeeaaaaarrrr... SOUNDTRACK!!!

[AngelaHunter]

Hey, Emily! I heeeeaaaaarrrr... SOUNDTRACK!!!

 

I'm sure one of you talented people can write the lyrics to the Sharknado Theme.

 

OTOH, if Tara Reid ("the Sharknado Star") is too busy with her new activity - "Shirtless Bowling" -  it could be Emily's big movie break. I'm sure with time and patience she can learn to drum up an expression stronger than mild consternation, right?

[Mu Shu]

Today. 4:46 pm

 

Excellent idea. After all, many people seem to be interested in the doings (and the ass) of that nasty skank, Kardashian, so why not? Maybe you should "Tweet" or "Twitter" or whatever,  your idea to Emily.

Sorry, I'm 42 this year, so I'm an old and not on the Twitter.   Emily will just have to figure it out on her own. 

 

Emily could totally do better than Tara Reid.   Emily doesn't look strung out.   Hell, I'm doing better than Tara Reid, and I'm famous for being lazy. 

Edited January 10, 2015 by Mu Shu

[Bongo Fury]

Sorry, I'm 42 this year, so I'm an old and not on the Twitter.   Emily will just have to figure it out on her own. 

 

Here's a question for our assembled experts from another old fart.

 

Do you have to be a Twit to post on Twitter?

[AngelaHunter]

Do you have to be a Twit to post on Twitter?

 

I may BE a Twit, but no Tweeting or Twittering or any of that other stuff for me. I don't even Facebook, mainly because I don't care what someone had for lunch, what time they got up or what dreary new parables they've posted.

[Iguessnot]

The only reason I got a facebook account was for a food coupon. I probably only look at my page 3 times a year. I just don't understand putting all your business in the street.

[Nashville]

Well... I'm 52, and I have Twitter.  And Facebook.  And Instagram.  :)

I don't put much out there - at all - but it's handy for keeping track with what's up with the kids, and people I care about.

[kikismom]

 I just don't understand putting all your business in the street.

Agreed. Although I do put a lot of my family's business on here! 

Which is not really going to make a difference since a lot of it appears in the papers near and far, not to mention on television on the evening news. If you think I'm exaggerating for comic effect---sadly, I'm not.

Edited January 11, 2015 by kikismom

[GreyBunny]

I'm ancient too and I have facebook, twitter, and tumblr.  I don't post things that are too personal, just stuff I wouldn't mind the world seeing (and no I'm not a Kardashian).  I generally use twitter to yell at politicians and news media personalities and tell them they're idiots when they say or do something stupid, and my tumblr is not much more than a place for me to fangirl over Hannibal/Mads Mikkelsen.  (It's funny seeing the posts by other fans talking about Mads and their daddy fantasies and I'm all, "'Daddy?' Mads isn't too much older than me," and I have to realize I'm old enough to be many of the other tumblr fans' mother).

 

I'd love to see EK on Sharknado 3...as long as she gets eaten by a shark.  Tara Reid looks busted but she has a sense of humor about it and I kind of love her.

Edited January 11, 2015 by GreyBunny

[Iguessnot]

Agreed. Although I do put a lot of my family's business on here! 

Which is not really going to make a difference since a lot of it appears in the papers near and far, not to mention on television on the evening news. If you think I'm exaggerating for comic effect---sadly, I'm not.

I've enjoyed a lot of your posts and evidently that you have a real lively bunch around you.

[RedheadZombie]

I posted in the season two thread that I watched one of those episodes recently - first time since it originally aired - and I was surprised by how different the Beth character was.  I actually think Beth devolved.  She looked like a young woman in her mid-twenties, wore normal clothes, and seemed more like the physically strong farmer's daughter that she was supposed to be.  None of that waif business, standing around slouched with slumped shoulders, blinking doe-eyed at the camera.  And this was during her suicidal period! 

[NurseGiGi]

I have 'the Facebook', as my sister calls it but I don't post anything on it.  I like it for keeping up with former coworkers and old friends who post pics of their families and grand youg'uns.  I'll never understand why some people get on there and post there whereabouts, though.  Which lets some people know your house is empty or your teens are at home alone. *shaking my head*

 

If EK is smart she will find herself a good acting couch to take advantage of her brief celebrity status.  Although, I do wonder about her emotional maturity and whether she's really equipped to deal with the amount of rejection that comes with an acting career.

 

I think we need to start a write in campaign for EK to appear in Sharknado 3.

Edited January 11, 2015 by NurseGiGi

[kikismom]

 

If EK is smart she will find herself a good acting couch to take advantage of her brief celebrity status. 

I believe the phrase is "casting couch"...still works though.

 

 

 you have a real lively bunch around you.

That's what the FBI said!

[AngelaHunter]

Quote

I believe the phrase is "casting couch"...still works though.

 

I don't think even the casting couch would be enough to bring her any measure of success in the acting business or even in commercials.

 

The only fame she's ever going to have, she's had, peaking with fanvids like this one, resulting in panty-bunching from the fangirls:

 

[YT]

[/YT]

 

 

[Watcher0363]

That video was funny, however I keeping checking IMDB to see if she gets one more episode listed under the Walking Dead. Because if she does get one you know it will be a love scene flashback. Then her Walking Dead journey will be complete. Else Daryl's, "you know" renewed faith in mankind will spawn a thousand theories of speculation and the Walking Dead universe will ever be plagued with the did they or did they not question.

[NurseGiGi]

Please tell me that video was just a bad dream.  I could only watch a few seconds of it.

[AngelaHunter]

I could only watch a few seconds of it.

 

Well, shucks, you missed the "best" parts then! It was edited to have Beth say "I never..had sex" in the cabin game, and then some sex scene edited also to make it look like them. A regular pot boiler it is!

[NurseGiGi]

Well, shucks, you missed the "best" parts then! It was edited to have Beth say "I never..had sex" in the cabin game, and then some sex scene edited also to make it look like them. A regular pot boiler it is!

Nooooooooooooooo!!!!

[Nashville]

I don't recall some of the scenes in that video clip.

Must've missed them while I was getting a coke out of the fridge.

Or something like that.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Nashville

[CarpeDiem54]

I don't recall some of the scenes in that video clip.

Must've missed them while I was getting a coke out of the fridge.

Or something like that.

Or you're like me and went for electro shock therapy to wipe them from your mind.

[kikismom]

ohhhhhhhnonononononohahahahahaha!

I just played the video, while I'm doing the wash, and the "extra footage" scenes came on right as my washer went spazz and started thumping and the dishes rattling and it really adds a lot to the scene.

Carpe Diem 54: do you have an address for that shock doc, or do you think I could DIY it with the car battery and jumper cables?

[Morrigan2575]

I'm sure Beth/Emily fans are already aware but if not, Emily Kinney will have a guest star role on Forever, not sure on the details.

 

http://www.spoilertv.com/2015/01/forever-episode-116-emily-kinney-to.html

[Emily Thrace]

Exactly. I've said it before (I think) that no one even noticed her much until "Still" (so the fangirls could bang Daryl vicariously) and wouldn't have given a shit about her life or death if not for that hope. This ridiculous outcry has nothing to do with her as a character in her own right.

After the prison, had she ended up wandering around, singin', with Tyreese and the children, the fans STILL wouldn't have given much of a hoot about her.

And to "Strut her stuff" would require she have some stuff to strut, which, after being given every opportunity to shine, she lacked. I'm pretty sure even I could put on a better drunk act than she did and I'm no actress. Either she's talent-free or maybe we should think she was a secret alcoholic and all that moonshine didn't affect her in the least.

Thats bullshit, plenty of people cared about Beth for who she is. They may hang out on Bethyl boards but thats just because they tend to be a safe haven from the verbal shrapnel. The fact is Beths story has been dogged by sexism the whole way through. Why wasn't she clearing the prison with her sister? Or even going on runs in season 4? If she had been a seventeen year-old boy it wouldn't even have been a question. Instead because shes a girl she gets to hold the baby.

Jennifer Lawrence couldn't have made much of an impression with the scraps EK got in season 3. For fucks sake Carol got more lines than she and Carol was supposed to be dead by episode 5. EK has years of dance training and spent all kinds of time flying around on a wire (She played Tinkerbell on Broadway before the show). All of which can make for great action scenes. Except we're never going to see that because TPTB see female characters as disposable and have no interest in women as anything but victims.

[CletusMusashi]

I suspect a tad of hyperbole in that last sentence. They showed Maggie, for example, working on the fence right next to Rick. But.. yeah. They did seem to "need" to keep Beth weak so that the heroic men could still have their traditional roles. At least until the only plan the writers had left was "kill this character off on schedule." During the later parts of the Dawn arc, I honestly have no idea WTF they were doing with her! Well, look on the bright side. The worm has turned. Nowadays, the damsels in distress tend to be played by Eugene or Father Pee Pants. Somehow it's not an improvement.

Edited January 23, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[GreyBunny]

Jennifer Lawrence could have acted circles around EK with what EK was given because she's a good actress and EK isn't.  So what if EK was flying around like Tinkerbell, I'm sure the other actors also have special skills that aren't being used because those skills aren't relevant to the characters they're playing.  Besides it looked like EK got to use some of those so-called action skills in Slabtown and she was using the machine gun alongside Maggie during the prison riot.

 

Except we're never going to see that because TPTB see female characters as disposable and have no interest in women as anything but victims.

 

Except for Michonne, Carol, Maggie, Tara, Sasha, Rosita, and other female characters on the show who are more than just victims or aren't victims at all.  Plenty of the men on the show have been victimized too, no less than the women. The real sexism I see are from those who project Beth onto the rest of the women and don't see them as separate individuals who have their own stories and personalities - as if since Beth was a redshirt and died an ignoble death then that must be true of all of the rest of the women.  As for being disposable, EVERYONE is disposable, even Rick might not survive the series.  The only one who seems to have real plot armor is Carl as it appears the series might end up being his story. 

Edited January 18, 2015 by GreyBunny

[duckseason]

Beth had a tiny fanbase.  It didn't get any decent numbers until she and Daryl wound up alone together and some people thought she was going to end up bouncing on Daryl's magic peen.  There may be some genuine Beth fans but they're vastly outnumbered by the Twilight Bethyl peen-bouncing crowd.

[Bongo Fury]

... The fact is Beths story has been dogged by sexism the whole way through. ...

 

The only thing dogging the Beth story line was the primitive acting skills of EK. She was a minor, background character, who was never intended to play a prominent role on the show. But unlike other minor, background characters like Carol or Daryl, the actor playing the role was unable to raise there character above initial intentions. TWD has proven repeatedly that a character can rise above what they were suppose to be, IF the actor has the appropriate skill. The writing on this show is uneven for EVERYONE, but it's the skilled actors who are able to rise above those limitations and make their character truly compelling. EK never had that ability.

 

[kikismom]

The fact is Beths story has been dogged by sexism the whole way through. Why wasn't she clearing the prison with her sister?

 

When the lower levels of the prison were cleared, only Maggie went; when the yard was cleared Maggie and Carol cleared and later on Michonne and Sasha. Beth did kill walkers at the fence So probably not sexism.

                                                                                                          

Or even going on runs in season 4?

Maggie, Carol, Michonne, and Sasha went on runs; again---probably not sexism.

If she had been a seventeen year-old boy it wouldn't even have been a question. Instead because shes a girl she gets to hold the baby.

Carl was younger than Beth, but he had already killed walkers---but that didn't stop his father (Rick) from taking his gun away, scolding him for saying the word shithead (and after the war with the Gov destroyed the prison and it looked like Judith was eaten! ), Rick even was telling him to brush his teeth and play Legos with Patrick. If anything, age is what mattered, not gender. Both Rick and Herschel wanted their children to stay innocent and uncorrupted by the world. Hershel already treated Maggie as an adult,  but not the youngest he referred to as "little Bethie"; and Rick finally gives in and tells Carl "You're a man now" in After.

BTW---no character is more associated with "gets to hold the baby" than Tyreese.

Jennifer Lawrence couldn't have made much of an impression with the scraps EK got in season 3. For fucks sake Carol got more lines than she and Carol was supposed to be dead by episode 5. EK has years of dance training and spent all kinds of time flying around on a wire (She played Tinkerbell on Broadway before the show). All of which can make for great action scenes. Except we're never going to see that because TPTB see female characters as disposable and have no interest in women as anything but victims.

 

I have really tried; but I cannot find any record of EK playing Tinkerbell on Broadway. If you know a source, let me know here. These are the only credits I could find for her:

http://www.broadwayworld.com/people/Emily-Kinney/

 

Overall---during the entire run of the show---TWD has killed off a lot more male characters than female.

In the immediate group---"Camp Dinner Bell"---the females we knew that were "disposed" of were  Amy, Jacqui, Sophia, Patricia, Lori, Andrea, Beth.

The male characters were Ed, Jim, Otis, Jimmy, Shane, Merle, T-Dog,Herschel, Bob. (not even counting Axel and Oscar?).

Seems fairly balanced.

Edited January 19, 2015 by Dougal
Formatting.

[CletusMusashi]

There could be a valid point here about her acting failing to elevate the material. She was actually better at acting silently than at acting noticeably. I thought a lot of her quiet, stoic schtick during the Grady arc was extremely well done, but I'm not sure even it truly "stands out" compared to some of the silent scenes that have been done by, for example, Rick or Michonne. Emily's acting usually makes me say "She's not a bad actress. People are kind of rough on her." Andrew's makes me say "Rick may be an idiot, but that is one hell of a great actor."

Edited January 18, 2015 by CletusMusashi