S05.E06: Devil You Know

[Neurochick]

I thought Val Alden's death was so bizarre that I wasn't sure it really happened.  I was like, WTF?  It was like, bang, it was over, and then his head was blown off, which was like...yikes.  I wonder what those two actors in the next room were thinking.

 

On the other hand, Chalky's death was like poetry; we never see him go down; it just fades to black and the record scratches; reminded me of Richard's death, how it was a silent ending, which was quite haunting since it was the end of a season.  

[RealityGal]

The brothel is a good independent revenue stream for Luciano, who is trying to consolidate power, while still lying low from the old power structure. I think Narcisse knows that and is playing ball to survive. Luciano isn't going to off him unless he has someone better to take his place. As much as the mafia is violent, all the mass killings are spread pretty far apart. Luciano is trying to establish the mafia exec board so they can all operate quietly and make a lot of money. His point to Capone: same rules everywhere. So they don't have to shoot up every single city all the time. So, I don't think he'd be inclined to off Narcisse. If anyone does, I think it will be from his own circle. 

 

I think Narcisse might actually keep the promise, just to get her out of his life for good. He got rid of Chalky, he can let her go to Memphis and be a singer. 

 

The only think with Narcisse is that he is the sort that will always look like he has a chip on his shoulder because his business was taken over by Lucky.  I think the best thing for Lucky would be to bring in someone who won't have that chip on their shoulder and he doesn't have to worry about being upset or potentially trying to switch sides.  I think the first time Lucky was arrested it was actually due to being nailed for prostitution (which is something he had very little hand in) so given Narcisse's deal with the FBI I wonder if that isn't something that will come up.  Lucky may see Narcisse as being "too smart for his own good"  Unfortunately though I think you may be right because its too late to introduce someone new to take over Narcisse's business.  But I still need for Narcisse to die, if not at the hands of Lucky than at the hands of someone.

[HollaMcDollar]

I can't remember but is Narcisse involved in the Harlem heroin trade? The mob ran the heroin trade in Harlem those days (in addition to other rackets) but would run it all through an African American figurehead in Harlem... Does Narcisse currently on play that role for Lucky? I just cannot recall off the top of my head.

[curious87]

Did anyone else understand what went on with Narcisse and Chalky? They seemed to make a deal for Chalky to work for him, then suddenly he shoots him, and Chalky seems to understand it?

[HollaMcDollar]

Here is a link to the “In Memorium: Chalky” video from the HBO website that is mentioned at the end of the credits of last night’s episode… Good stuff

[apgold]

 

I thought Val Alden's death was so bizarre that I wasn't sure it really happened.  I was like, WTF?  It was like, bang, it was over, and then his head was blown off, which was like...yikes.

 

ITA.  I loved when he started screaming at Capone "I am NELSON VAN ALDEN, HEAR ME ROAR" and then his head got blown off.  I think they showed that lingering shot at his corpse to say "Yeah, folks, he's dead!"

 

Michael Shannon needs an Emmy nod - he was perfect in this role.  He's busy making movies (he's in the upcoming 99 Homes w/Andrew Garfield) and does the occasional play in NY, so I don't worry for his career.

 

As for Capone, well his goose is cooked.  So even if Van Alden died, he did play an instrumental role in getting the ledgers that will send Al to prison.

Edited October 13, 2014 by apgold

[ethalfrida]

The memoriam WAS touching. RIP, Chalky...

That is the second series I've seen him in where his c

Thanks for posting it.

Edited October 13, 2014 by ethalfrida

[Neurochick]

After watching a second time, one thing confuses me, why didn't Chalky just kill Narcisse right there, in that room, right in front of daughter and everybody else?  I mean what were the bodyguards going to do, really?  Probably nothing; they probably all secretly detest Narcisse.  I've actually met guys like that in real life, who think they're better than everybody and usually everybody hates them and just can't wait for them to shut the fuck up.  I can see someone killing Narcisse just to finally shut him up.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Neurochick

[terrymct]

After watching a second time, one thing confuses me, why didn't Chalky just kill Narcisse right there, in that room, right in front of daughter and everybody else?  I mean what were the bodyguards going to do, really?  Probably nothing; they probably all secretly detest Narcisse.  I've actually met guys like that in real life, who think they're better than everybody and usually everybody hates them and just can't wait for them to shut the fuck up.  I can see someone killing Narcisse just to finally shut him up.

Chalky needed his paladin moment. Unfortunately, he wasted it on Daughter, even if she was a stand in for Maybelle, rather than on his family or community....the people he held dear until he started lusting after her.

[ganesh]

They could have come in and killed Daughter and daughter though. We don't know what was said outside the room. I think Chalky was a walking dead man since his daughter got killed anyway. 

 

Luciano might not have anyone to replace Narcisse either. You're going to need another black guy to be in charge, and he might just not have the time to find the right guy. It's more trouble than it's worth at this point. 

[HollaMcDollar]

I thought Chalky left Narisse alive b/c he was the one who had the power to get Daughter on the radio.... If he killed him Daughter would never make it on the radio...

[monakane]

I thought Chalky left Narisse alive b/c he was the one who had the power to get Daughter on the radio.... If he killed him Daughter would never make it on the radio...

 

She may not have made it on the radio, but she would have been free of Narisse.  

[Trooper York]

It is an interesting turn of events because Lucky Luciano was framed by Thomas Dewey for controlling prostitution in NYC and got a 30 to 50 year sentence that was later commuted because of his assistance to the Navy during WW2. Interestingly enough it was then Governor Dewey that commuted his sentence and gave him the Joe Giudice solution.

 

Deporting him to Italy.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Trooper York

[ZaldamoWilder]

I thought Chalky left Narisse alive b/c he was the one who had the power to get Daughter on the radio.... If he killed him Daughter would never make it on the radio...

 

She won't make it on the radio anyway.   Chalky alluded to Narcisse keeping his promise in his last words.  Something like:

 

Chalky:  you gone keep your word right?

Narcisse:  how will you know?    (can I tell you how thick I am, I didn't get that Chalky was about to bite it until this moment)

 

I can't remember what Chalky said next but Narcisse's answer was something like:  yeah ok, let's go with that.    He couldn't even let a dead man have the benefit of the lie.  Guy's a dick.

[RealityGal]

After watching a second time, one thing confuses me, why didn't Chalky just kill Narcisse right there, in that room, right in front of daughter and everybody else?  I mean what were the bodyguards going to do, really?  Probably nothing; they probably all secretly detest Narcisse.  I've actually met guys like that in real life, who think they're better than everybody and usually everybody hates them and just can't wait for them to shut the fuck up.  I can see someone killing Narcisse just to finally shut him up.

 

I don't think he wanted to put his revenge before the safety of his daughter....again.  The bodyguards would certainly kill Chalky IMO, they don't know him, they don't know if they want him to be the boss, even if Narcisse died, there is probably someone within his organization that would want to take over.  And I don't think you could just let someone kill your boss without the organization itself looking weak.  I'm sure they all secretly detest Narcisse, and they may have plans to kill him, but it will be so that someone else within the organization will take over.

[alynch]

They could have come in and killed Daughter and daughter though. We don't know what was said outside the room. I think Chalky was a walking dead man since his daughter got killed anyway.

 

Yeah, when Narcisse refused to let the kid leave the room, there was definitely an implication of "If you kill me, she dies."

[MulletorHater]

Here is a link to the “In Memorium: Chalky” video from the HBO website that is mentioned at the end of the credits of last night’s episode… Good stuff

 

This made me tear up all over again!  I loved the dynamic of Chalky's family, particularly how he interacted with his wife and the life they were trying to create for their children.  I remember being heartbroken when Maybelle was left at the altar.  Poor tragic girl!

 

On a personal note, The Old Ship of Zion was one of my grandmother's favorite gospel songs especially when sung by someone who could really blow.  And, on a shallow note, Chalky could rag his ass off; whoever was dressing the actor did an awesome job.

 

RIP, Chalky!

[txhorns79]

I thought the juxtaposition between Chalky and Van Alden's deaths were almost too much.  Chalky was given an almost Harrow like send off (which truly was the most touching death this show has done), while Van Alden died liked he had lived for the past few seasons, an almost farcical death.  

 

I just figured that Chalky had to do what he did because his only choice was kill Narcisse, but get Daughter and Daughter Jr. killed, or let them go and die himself.  He couldn't let another of his children die in service of his goals.  It's sad that the only way to give some of these characters closure seems to be to kill them. 

[Neurochick]

I remember being heartbroken when Maybelle was left at the altar.  Poor tragic girl!

 

 

You're right.  I thought she left the guy (I don't think she wanted to marry him though), but it was his family who stopped the marriage, which I didn't get because, seriously, they didn't know what Chalky did for a living?  

[redapplecigs]

RIP Chalky. I never thought that Michael K. Williams could play a character I loved as much as I loved Omar, but Chalky White came very, very close. Kudos to Williams for several brilliant seasons on a show that didn't always know what to do with his character.

I won't miss Van Alden nearly as much, but props to Shanon for going balls out with a batshit crazy character!

As sad as I am to see the long death march begin with these characters (which I guess really began with Richard's death last season), I can't say I disagree with their sad fates.

These are bad men (and women). They are reaping what they have so diligently sowed over the past several seasons. They have profited on the death, destruction and misery of those around them and those types of profits always come with the corresponding losses.

I have been pleasantly surprised with the quality of this final season and I will be truly sad to see it go. But I have been, and will continue to, enjoy every moment of the ride.

Edited October 14, 2014 by redapplecigs

[Shriekingeel]

Futility, the hallmark of bad writing. All these futile deaths of characters we're invested in give me absolutely no hope for any kind of interesting ending to the series. Just get it over with.

[lucindabelle]

Wow. Tough to take. Kind of a coincidence though that chalky bumped into both daughter and Narcisse, was it it? Or did I miss something?

[Ursula Parrott]

I prefer to think that Van Alden and Chalky are just resting, like parrots.

[NutMeg]

I don't think any death will shock and sadden me as much as Jimmy's - he was such a powerful character, such a major one, still had a high potential for redemption and a lot to live for, people who loved him, etc.

 

Chalky, like Richard before him, had done what he could for those he loved and had lost the will to continue living. It is so sad for Chalky that Daughter ever happened. Not only is it sad that a guy turns his back on a nice family for a nice piece of voice, but he did that for a nice piece of voice who was introduced by someone he never trusted, and I was always disappointed that as a savvy guy he never considered that she could be a Trojan horse - or rather that he refused to consider that possibility.

 

My frustration is so high because we never saw anything worthy in Daughter (or I should say I never did), so his infatuation with her remains a cipher. I know we saw that his family was "unappreciative", or rather that he felt unappreciated, but that brings to mind parents who say "I would never have talked like that to my dad" but would hate to have with their kids the distant relation they had with their dad. I thought it was clear that his family loved him, warts and all, even if sometimes they were hinting that, you know, warts can be removed.

 

His death however was logical. He had lost his family, through dead or estrangement brought about by his mistakes. Seven (?) years in a penal environment must then have taken their toll. He seemed to not even consider escaping, but did thanks to external factors. But his family was gone, his "great love"/infatuation was gone, only thing left was revenge for all these losses. And then, just as he's about to get revenge, he finds that his 'great love"/infatuation lives on, in the form of Daughter and daughter. Alive, he's a threat to them. Dead, he might (not will) be useful to them, which is better than a threat. So he sacrifices himself. And does get the hero treatment (no visual of bullet impact for him, just a close up, slow fall in, a song in his head, they the song interrupted and the scratch of the needle. As deaths go, he may have had the most tender one so far.

 

And now, back to Narcisse. The reason I hate him so is his hypocrisy, do what I say, not what I do, unless I order you to. When talking about Luciano he told Chalky something like 'he allows me to run my own business, but under him", or something similar, I was struck by how that is exactly what he did to Chalky in the previous season. I hope the irony wasn't lost on Chalky (who used to be wise before Daughter, etc.).

 

Van Alden on the other hand died as he had lived since we've known him. So while I'm sadder to see his character go, because, contrary to Chalky, he was still a big part of the narrative, it makes sense that he ended as he did. And he got to go in a blaze of glory, under his own name and while trying to kill/get Al Capone. Pretty good send-off for the character, I think.

 

Methinks Nucky will not survive the season, but I would be shocked if he bit the dust next episode. All flashbacks have to mean that we're going to feel sad when he does, and are him taking stock of his life, aren't they? But if he's going all out against his enemies next episode I'll be rooting for him and his crew. Hopefully Eli's disfavor with Al Capone will send him back to AC, I need to see the brothers together this season! (otherwise than in flashback...)

 

Please let Mickey Doyle live... 

[alynch]

Please let Mickey Doyle live... 

 

I have trouble envisioning Mickey surviving, mostly because I still expect that $500,000 life insurance policy against him to come into play before we're through.

[Fisher King]

Heh. I'd forgotten about the life insurance police. Wasn't that Rothstein's doing?  He's dead and I don't like the idea of Mrs. R getting a dime BUT I do feel that Mickey Doyle should get his just desserts. He has always been a snickering, giggly, back-stabbing weasel.  No attempt at redemption can endear him to me.

 

I was expecting Van Alden's demise but not in the same episode as Chalky's.  If there were more than two episodes left I'd probably allow myself to be sad about it.

 

[NutMeg]

I have trouble envisioning Mickey surviving, mostly because I still expect that $500,000 life insurance policy against him to come into play before we're through.

 

Chekov's gun and all, in this series those I expected to die (such as Doyle) lived and prospered, and those I thought were there for at least a little while longer were gone much faster. Who knows, maybe for once Chekov's gun doesn't apply. Mickey is the least tormented soul on BE, isn't he? Actually, he doesn't have one tormented bone in his body. I hated him initially but I now I love him for that. - of course, with my record, he'll probably be dead at the beginning of next week episode, and that howl you'll hear will be mine :-)    

 

Edited because "I hating him" is not good.

Edited October 14, 2014 by NutMeg

[ZaldamoWilder]

NutMeg I think I love you for "piece of voice"

[alynch]

Heh. I'd forgotten about the life insurance police. Wasn't that Rothstein's doing?  He's dead and I don't like the idea of Mrs. R getting a dime BUT I do feel that Mickey Doyle should get his just desserts. He has always been a snickering, giggly, back-stabbing weasel.  No attempt at redemption can endear him to me.

 

Rothstein sold the policy to Nucky last season, so Nucky would receive any payout. Frankly, Mickey still being alive in a season that's kind of built upon Nucky having money troubles has never really made much sense to me. I guess we're meant to believe that Mickey has made himself indispensable to Nucky in the ensuing years.

[Fisher King]

Thanks for the reminder (again), alynch. 

I guess any chance of Nucky having a halfway successful endgame depends on the few allies he has left.  Mickey being chief among them.  Sucks for Nucky, I'm afraid.

[MulletorHater]

I don't think any death will shock and sadden me as much as Jimmy's - he was such a powerful character, such a major one, still had a high potential for redemption and a lot to live for, people who loved him, etc.

 

Chalky, like Richard before him, had done what he could for those he loved and had lost the will to continue living. It is so sad for Chalky that Daughter ever happened. Not only is it sad that a guy turns his back on a nice family for a nice piece of voice, but he did that for a nice piece of voice who was introduced by someone he never trusted, and I was always disappointed that as a savvy guy he never considered that she could be a Trojan horse - or rather that he refused to consider that possibility.

 

My frustration is so high because we never saw anything worthy in Daughter (or I should say I never did), so his infatuation with her remains a cipher. I know we saw that his family was "unappreciative", or rather that he felt unappreciated, but that brings to mind parents who say "I would never have talked like that to my dad" but would hate to have with their kids the distant relation they had with their dad. I thought it was clear that his family loved him, warts and all, even if sometimes they were hinting that, you know, warts can be removed.

 

His death however was logical. He had lost his family, through dead or estrangement brought about by his mistakes. Seven (?) years in a penal environment must then have taken their toll. He seemed to not even consider escaping, but did thanks to external factors. But his family was gone, his "great love"/infatuation was gone, only thing left was revenge for all these losses. And then, just as he's about to get revenge, he finds that his 'great love"/infatuation lives on, in the form of Daughter and daughter. Alive, he's a threat to them. Dead, he might (not will) be useful to them, which is better than a threat. So he sacrifices himself. And does get the hero treatment (no visual of bullet impact for him, just a close up, slow fall in, a song in his head, they the song interrupted and the scratch of the needle. As deaths go, he may have had the most tender one so far.

 

And now, back to Narcisse. The reason I hate him so is his hypocrisy, do what I say, not what I do, unless I order you to. When talking about Luciano he told Chalky something like 'he allows me to run my own business, but under him", or something similar, I was struck by how that is exactly what he did to Chalky in the previous season. I hope the irony wasn't lost on Chalky (who used to be wise before Daughter, etc.).

 

Nutmeg, thank you for so eloquently describing why the Chalky/Daughter hook-up frustrated and pissed me off to the highest level of pissivity.  I just never felt she was all that and 5 bags of chips--certainly not worth all the upheaval that ensued in Chalky's life from the moment she and Narcisse entered it.  My husband and I also felt some subtle manipulation by the writers to paint Chalky's wife in a less-than-flattering light to make it "understandable" why Chalky would prefer Daughter to her.  After several years of marriage, I would think that both Mr. and Mrs. White knew exactly what they were getting and got exactly what they bargained for.  That Chalky chose to let his guard down and ignore his most basic instincts infuriated me.  It's like from the moment he met Daughter, his brain cells took a permanent vacation.  It was just one bad decision after another and each consequence grew progressively worse.  After the set-up and failed attempt on his life by Pugsly, I fully expected Chalky to put as much distance between himself and Daughter as possible.  But, the moment they went on the run together, I knew my hopes were futile.  There simply would be no going back.  My husband looked at this mess with disbelief and constantly asked, "Bruh--what are you doing?!"

 

As for Narcisse, the things I despised most about him were his superciliousness and hypocrisy.  As someone mentioned upthread, he sold smack to his own people in Harlem.  This, while he was painting himself as some kind of Marcus Garvey-like figure who wanted to elevate Blacks and free them from a slave mentality, while painting Caucasians as the scourge of humanity.  Yet, he treated people of both races with contempt and considered Chalky (with his barely literate country ways) and Pugsly as lower than dirt beneath his shoe.  He had no problem pimping out Daughter (albeit, with her permission) counting on her good looks and talent to keep Chalky otherwise occupied.  The White woman who claimed that Pugsly raped her was nothing more than disposable garbage to him.

 

I want that bastard to die a painful and undignified death, with the dogs licking his bones in the middle of the alley.  The worst thing that could ever happen to a narcissist like Narcisse would be to die like scum and to leave no trace behind indicating that he ever existed.

[paigow]

Writing The Nucky Thompson Oath of Allegiance should guarantee the survival of Mickey Doyle.

[NutMeg]

Thank you so much MulletorHater, I'm happy to see others share that opinion :-)  Your post is incredibly insightful and worth the read, thanks a  bunch for it.

[Neurochick]

After several years of marriage, I would think that both Mr. and Mrs. White knew exactly what they were getting and got exactly what they bargained for.  That Chalky chose to let his guard down and ignore his most basic instincts infuriated me.  It's like from the moment he met Daughter, his brain cells took a permanent vacation.  It was just one bad decision after another and each consequence grew progressively worse.  After the set-up and failed attempt on his life by Pugsly, I fully expected Chalky to put as much distance between himself and Daughter as possible.  But, the moment they went on the run together, I knew my hopes were futile.  There simply would be no going back.  My husband looked at this mess with disbelief and constantly asked, "Bruh--what are you doing?!"

 

 

I think it was mentioned that Chalky did a favor for his wife's father (basically killing someone) and that was why he was allowed to marry his wife; that would explain the huge difference between Chalky and Mrs. Chalky; remember her making a comment about her husband's "country ways?"

 

As for Daughter and Chalky, isn't that what happens in real life?  People get married, they get settled and then BAM, they meet someone who sets them aflame and there's no going back.  I'm a straight woman and I think Margot Bingham is gorgeous!  I think Chalky met her and was like, "she's hot AND she can sing."  It might have been over had Narcisse not beat the shit out of Daughter, which only make Chalky angrier at Narcisse.  The thing is, sometimes when people fall in love, they loose all sense.  

Edited October 14, 2014 by Neurochick

[Former Nun]

Futility, the hallmark of bad writing. All these futile deaths of characters we're invested in give me absolutely no hope for any kind of interesting ending to the series. Just get it over with.

 

Shrikingeel...I'm afraid I'm following you on this path.   Showing the easy way out is so lazy.

[HollaMcDollar]

If Mickey Doyle plays true to his real life inspiration then I fear he may not be long for this world....

[Gudzilla]

RIP Nelson Van Alden. Like everything else even your death was pandemonium.

[vesperholly]

 

As deaths go, he may have had the most tender one so far.

Chalky's death was eloquent in the way it was filmed (the broken record as the screen goes black), but nothing will trump Richard Harrow's complete face as he walks towards Julia and the family ... that will always be the saddest, most touching death to me. I watched the "In Memoriam" for Chalky and looked up the one for Richard. Chalky's was sad, especially when Maybelle was killed, but I legit cried at Richard's.

 

I'm more disappointed that they offed Van Alden. Ever since he turned tail and started working for Capone, "Husband" has been bringing the comic relief like no other. Michael Shannon rocks.

Edited October 15, 2014 by vesperholly

[RealityGal]

Chalky's death was eloquent in the way it was filmed (the broken record as the screen goes black), but nothing will trump Richard Harrow's complete face as he walks towards Julia and the family ... that will always be the saddest, most touching death to me. I watched the "In Memoriam" for Chalky and looked up the one for Richard. Chalky's was sad, especially when Maybelle was killed, but I legit cried at Richard's.

 

I'm more disappointed that they offed Van Alden. Ever since he turned tail and started working for Capone, "Husband" has been bringing the comic relief like no other. Michael Shannon rocks.

 

I have been thinking about Chalky more than I should, mostly because I hate Narcisse so damn much.  But I think Chalky is such a tragic figure in some ways.

 

He sort of reminds me of Sigrid in a way.  I think that she idealized her dream of becoming this American wife, and the reality never lived up to the dream and she became sour and bitter.  I think Chalky, all his life, wanted what he got, a respectable wife, a beautiful daughter, an intelligent son.   By all looks of it a devoted and loving family.  He had money, he carved out a piece of life that made him money and gave him a level of respect in his community.  But I don't think his dream made him happy.  There always seemed to be a part of him that just never quite seemed comfortable, or maybe never even thought he was good enough for all the things he had.  Maybe he punished himself for not being happy with the things that should have made him happy.  I feel like Chalky really wanted to be happy with his beautiful life, and I certainly think he loved Maybelle to pieces, but I never got the feeling he was fully happy, even though it must have been what he worked so hard for.

 

I couldn't even watch Chalky's death, I just couldn't.  But I think the most beautiful, most heartbreakingly beautiful line was when Daughter said something like "we should leave together", and Chalky says, in a tone of voice thats almost playful "but that doesn't make any sense, we're going in two different directions."  And I almost teared up in that moment, because it was in that moment that I knew and I knew that Chalky knew, and I knew that Daughter knew.  He didn't make a big deal of it, he didn't try to escape it, he just accepted it, and tried to make light of it.

 

I don't think anything will be as beautiful as Richard Harrow's death.  That ranks right up there with the series finale of six feet under for me (which had me crying like a little girl)

[Avaleigh]

Chalky's death and Richard's are basically tied for me in terms of sadness and tears. If forced to choose though I think the dialogue from Chalky's final moments gave his scenes the edge for me.

When he talks about freedom being nothing more than a dream, an illusion- -I'm almost tearing up now. So sad and insightful. Even Narcisse seemed haunted by the truth of that statement.

Also the dignified way he faced his killers, straightening his suit, holding his head high, telling them it was all right almost as though he didn't have hard feelings over the fact that these men have been ordered to kill him. Then closing his eyes as he hears Daughter's voice in his head for a few precious seconds.

It's a fictional character and I'm still feeling devastated over here.

[buttercupia]

I started tearing up when Chalky said "baby girl", and didn't stop until it was over. 

[smcallah]

Writing The Nucky Thompson Oath of Allegiance should guarantee the survival of Mickey Doyle.

 

Yes, he must live past the finale just because of the "as long as you both shall live" from this oath.  That was the best.

[hincandenza]

Good point on the forgotten insurance policy: if Nucky wants to fund getting Mrs. Rothstein off his back and other miscellaneous expenses, then well...

 

... except that Mickey is exactly the kind of plot-armored comic relief character who will outlive them all.  Besides, this far into the Depression, the odds that the life insurance company even still exists in the middle of the Depression- much less will pay out $500,000 on the death of a connected gangster like Mickey Doyle (and who's been keeping up the payments the last 7 years?) are astronomically low.  Doesn't mean they won't write that in the script, but according to measuringworth.com, the wealth value of $500K in 1924 or 1931 would be something like you or I getting a $30-40 million dollar insurance payout today.

[Aprilshowers]

 

Despite both of my favorite characters being killed in the same episode this was probably one of the greatest BE episodes of the series.

 

 

Absolutely agree. I am literally at a loss for words, I  am verklempt.

 

Just where to start. The whole episode was a revelation. I think this show needs some awards for this episode alone.

 

So many things to comment on. 

 

So that was Chalky's daughter, sad sad moment..RIP Chalky..

 

Eli and Van Alden being confronted by Ralph and Co OMG I was laughing so hard at their reactions...I was hoping that they'd be able to leave before Al got there...that whole scene after was just holy crap. You knew something was coming when we attacked Capone, but damn if I wasn't rooting for him. That of course was all in vain. 

 

Eli has to get out of there and fast!

 

I knew it! Knew that kid was Gillian that was hiding stuff under the boardwalk.

 

I've said it before I'll say it again that young Nucky is amazing to watch those mannerisms just everything. You'd swear it was a young SB

 

I knew Nucky was in trouble when those broads "wanted" him in the back alley, not like him to make such mistakes. But he was super drunk so...

 

The ending credits were just perfect, the record player spinning around and around as the song disappeared.

 

 

 

Holy hell show, what is going to happen next??

[lovetowrite73]

IF the kid is really Tommy, I don't understand why he would be gunning for Nucky. Who in his "family" would have known anything about Nucky and his past discretion? Do you think Richard would have told his wife?  I would assume the wife might have shared with Tommy how awful Gillian was though.

[Neurochick]

Has it been confirmed that the boy is Tommy?  I never even considered that the kid was Tommy.

[Avaleigh]

The signs definitely seem pointed in the direction of that kid being Tommy. The age is slightly off but everything else seems like it fits.

He grew up on a farm; he looks like a young Jimmy with dark hair; he's being featured quite a bit for a new character who doesn't have anything to do with the overall plot so far; he's the first thing Nucky sees when Nucky wakes up from dreaming about Gillian when she was dressed as a boy; there's the point being made about how Nucky wants to "leave something behind" etc.

I don't know, I'm convinced. Why else are they spending so much time with the character?

Edited October 16, 2014 by Avaleigh

[RealityGal]

IF the kid is really Tommy, I don't understand why he would be gunning for Nucky. Who in his "family" would have known anything about Nucky and his past discretion? Do you think Richard would have told his wife?  I would assume the wife might have shared with Tommy how awful Gillian was though.

 

Maybe Grammy Dormondy has been in touch?

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I've always had a soft spot for Mickey Doyle (even when he's been annoying as heck) because one side of my family is Polish and Mickey is the only Polish-American gentile gangster featured on the show. (Early in the series Mickey changes his last name from Kuzik to Doyle to fit in with the Irish, just as the real-life inspiration for his character changed his last name from Cusick to Duffy.) I've always hoped for Mickey Doyle to become something more than a stereotypical "goofy Pole" character & I think that's finally started to happen this season. He's become well, likable. I even see some depth and humanity in his character with regard to how he treated the boy many of us think is Tommy. I hope he makes it out of BE alive, but given that he's become likable, I doubt he will (and the poster above who mentioned the real-life gangster who inspired Mickey Doyle is correct about the historical facts not looking good for Mickey; however this character really has little in common with his real-life inspiration aside from being Polish, a bootlegger from Philly, and changing his name).

That said, I totally expect Mickey to die before BE ends now.

Edited October 16, 2014 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[RealityGal]

I've always had a soft spot for Mickey Doyle (even when he's been annoying as heck) because one side of my family is Polish and Mickey is the only Polish-American gentile gangster featured on the show. (Early in the series Mickey changes his last name from Kuzik to Doyle to fit in with the Irish, just as the real-life inspiration for his character changed his last name from Cusick to Duffy.) I've always hoped for Mickey Doyle to become something more than a stereotypical "goofy Pole" character & I think that's finally started to happen this season. He's become well, likable. I even see some depth and humanity in his character with regard to how he treated the boy many of us think is Tommy. I hope he makes it out of BE alive, but given that he's become likable, I doubt he will (and the poster above who mentioned the real-life gangster who inspired Mickey Doyle is correct about the historical facts not looking good for Mickey; however this character really has little in common with his real-life inspiration aside from being Polish, a bootlegger from Philly, and changing his name).

That said, I totally expect Mickey to die before BE ends now.

 

At this point in BE, its almost a sign of respect to get killed off.