S04.E02: The State Of The Union

[Bobcatkitten]

I'm about ready to give up on this one. The fact is I don't like any character. They are all horrible people who lie, cheat, blackmail and kill people. So it makes it hard for me to care about what's going on.

 

About Cyrus and the gay prostitute guy - I don't mean to be rude but don't you think Cyrus would wonder why a guy that hot would be hitting on him?

 

Also, I cannot buy this ongoing grief with Mellie. I found that end scene grabbing at her neck and falling down crying to be almost laughable. I mean she has never been a good mother and suddenly three months later she still can barely function? Ugh.

[Morbs]

I actually think the show did a disservice by taking such a hard line against guns.  In my opinion, conservatives fear gun control because they think advocates want to take all guns away, and I don't think that is really the agenda, it is more about background checks, closing the gun show loop hole, and limiting the sale of the more powerful weapons.  The show is perpetuating the myth that gun control means no guns, his speech was just over board, and like everyone said would not be met with the audience cheering.

[Empress1]

About Cyrus and the gay prostitute guy - I don't mean to be rude but don't you think Cyrus would wonder why a guy that hot would be hitting on him?

James was better-looking than he is too (I don't think Jeff Perry is attractive), and James made the first move. (Cyrus seems to like dark-haired guys.) Also, power talks - Cyrus is a powerful man. Lots of people would be drawn to that.

[kia112]

But even with James, it seems to me like Cyrus believed that James was hitting on him because James wanted something, not because James was drawn to Cyrus, physically or otherwise.

 

But who knows.  Everything tends to blur together on this show.  Plus they make stuff up as they go.

[Julia]

I think this is a riff on a vaguely similar situation in Barney Frank's career, and Barney Frank, who I adore, is not an Adonis.

[3girlsforus]

 

Also, I cannot buy this ongoing grief with Mellie. I found that end scene grabbing at her neck and falling down crying to be almost laughable. I mean she has never been a good mother and suddenly three months later she still can barely function? Ugh.

 

I agree with this. I think Bellamy Young is doing a phenomenal job but this fall on the ground scene was bad. I like her as the fried chicken eating, dirty shirt but clean panty-wearing, potato chips on the grave first lady heading to Mary Todd land. To me that's the sign on an psychiatric break that might have culminated in the death of her son but comes from all the other stuff - her father-in-law is her rapist (and maybe the father of her child), her husband flaunts his mistress, etc. So her son dies and she goes nutsy-cookoo. To me that's consistent with the reality that she was a crappy mother. But the fall down on the floor just wasn't the emotion I think you'd see from her. 

 

And I REALLY am craving fried chicken....

[jjj]

Many people in the public eye, and subject to public scrutiny, have learned the hard way that they need to be very careful of making new friends, and are especially cautious of anyone glomming on to them.  In his role in the WH, Cyrus is immediately recognizable in DC, so knows that not only is he a target of political favor-seekers and random famewhores, but also that most of the eyes in the bar are on him.  The whole scenario is preposterous. 

 

Mmmm, fried chicken.  And chips. 

[Haleth]

I actually teared up when Mellie was introduced at the SotU. Bellamy did a great job portraying a woman barely holding it together.

The green screen on the balcony was horrible. Took me out of the show.

Edited because I had watery eyes. I did not stand up on my hind legs.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Haleth

[jjj]

Yes, it would have been so desolate to see her out there wrapped in a blanket, looking out at the winter-dead trees and brown grass of January. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

So how did everyone take Cyrus's threat.  In telling Olivia that he would tell Fitz she called every day, was he threatening to lie or tell the truth?

A lie. I think the premise of the meet was that Olivia hadn't even been talking to Cyrus previously. Also, Olivia knows she could get in contact with Fitz when she wanted to if she wanted to.

 

During a discussion with a friend the other day about this show, I noted that the writing is so bad that it's difficult to believe that it's unintentional. I find myself trying to contextualize and/or shoehorn most of the narrative into elaborate/unlikely schemas (ie maybe Olivia's gluttony for masochism is really a political allegory on the part of liberal showrunners about minorities who elect to associate with the GOP) because, well, the nonsensical character arcs and constant inconsistency can't be part of an earnest storytelling effort, right? To wit: Olivia's repeated references to the gun control advocacy couple as "terrible people." Uh, okay. Because frustration with singular challenges as a married couple and a desire to make some money is totally more reprehensible than disenfranchising the American electorate, covering up multiple murders, and committing adultery.

 

And the public is so bent out of shape over the photos of Mellie? She may have looked goofy stuffing her face in the photos, but would the American people really be so horrified that a grieving mother sat by her son's grave, and ate some food while she was there? The tabloids that printed the photos would be pilloried, and the public would rally behind her.

 

I also don't buy that people would believe that the president's son just happened to get bacterial meningitis and die from it. The odds of that happening to someone in the U.S. are positively miniscule. Barely anyone would believe it was just an enormous coincidence.

 

And finally, Fitz is going to stand up there and basically say the Second Amendment is crap? Not just that gun control laws should be stronger, but that the right to bear arms is an idea we should abandon? I really hope we're not expected to believe that his speech was popular. Right or wrong, it would be political suicide for a president from any party to go that far. 

 

 

While I certainly agree that Olivia is worse than the husband and the wife, I think her "terrible people" comment was about the husband telling his wife that she's worse than the Taliban, and the wife mocking her husband's torture. Not about them having marital strife, or wanting to make money.

 

As portayed, the hero couple were horrible people. At least, I would consider anybody who stabs their husband with a corkscrew a horrible person and anyone who makes fun of his wife's disability. Which is not to say our gladiators aren't horrible people in their own right...

 

In terms of the paparazzi pics of Mellie, I could totally see some elements of the press putting forth the ridicule and so forth that we saw in the episode. If we're to believe it's been three months since the death, for her to seem at odds with the glamour we expect of our First Lady, there would definitely be a backlash. Especially if people stood ready to spin this as "Fitz can't take care of his wife, how can he take care of the country" or "Fitz is too distracted by what's going on with Mellie to do what the country needs" as Lizzie stood ready to. I know it's not the same, but the recent hubbub about the "latte salute" illustrates to me that something like that probably would happen. You pretty much can't do a thing in politics without being criticized for it on this stage.

 

What was Jake's big discovery with the receipts? That Charlie killed Harrison?  I could not figure out what we were supposed to be seeing there, or the significance of Charlie in the restaurant. 

 

Jake followed the receipts that showed the different places Harrison and Adnan had supposedly gone before ending up in Phoenix and being killed there. He got surveillance video from one of the restaurants. Charlie was sitting at a table alone and he had ordered two meals. So it told Jake that Charlie was involved in creating the fake trail of evidence Harrison and Adnan going to Phoenix. If Charlie's involved, then B613 is probably involved. If B613 is involved and Jake didn't know it, then presumably Eli/Rowan is involved. So now Jake has got a lead and will presumably be going after both B613's motive for killing Harrison and Eli/Rowan.

[jjj]

Thank you, Chicago Redshirt!  That makes sense! 

[WhineandCheez]

Mellie is eating junk food and drinking booze.  And she's still a size 6-8, I would say.  AIN'T REAL LIFE.

 

I can totally see a hot guy going for Cyrus.  A hot guy who wants a political  favor or even just a rich guy. Like I tell my boyfriend when he talks about cute girls in their 20s, "You don't have THAT much money."

[jjj]

But Cyrus has been on the hill long enough to know that getting hit on is never just getting hit on.  There is always something in the background, either a favor, access, or Scandal impending! 

[thewhiteowl]

But Cyrus has been on the hill long enough to know that getting hit on is never just getting hit on.  There is always something in the background, either a favor, access, or Scandal impending! 

 

 You'd think it might cross his mind since he set-up the ex VPOTUS's husband with his own,

[Dusty]

 

but would the American people really be so horrified that a grieving mother sat by her son's grave, and ate some food while she was there? The tabloids that printed the photos would be pilloried, and the public would rally behind her.

 

Perhaps it's my cynical nature but I totally believe that it would happen.  I think that there would be some people who would rally behind her and say that it was wrong but I've found, especially in this internet age, a negative minority is louder than a positive majority.  Just look at the headline from that shitty tabloid New York Daily News when Chelsea Clinton had her baby.  Don't get me started on the comment section of any article, positive or negative, about her baby.  I totally believe that tabloid would stoop so low even in the death of a child.  I think most sensible people would rally behind her but I think it would generally happen in a sitting at home saying "that's just wrong" kind of way.  Our political system is so damn messed up that I could believe something like this happening IRL.  From either party.  I don't have much faith in the common decency of people when it comes to things like politics or religion.

[Oblique Angle]

 

LMAO. This show, this show, this show..............

Not sure I understand why the post was called out for laughs. It was a sincere answer to another poster's question about Mellie's broken necklace.

[Catherinewriter]

"I hope that we see a scene where Mellie becomes aware of Hal being the one to have infected Jerry. Given the dynamic that existed between Mellie and Hal, there's got to be some fallout from that."

OhMo, I hate to admit it, but I don't remember how Jerry died/was killed. I thought it was Maya. Who is Hal and what did he do to infect Jerry? And was Maya involved at all?

I love Mellie, even though I don't like the character that's been written for her. She's just hitting it out of the park.

And for those who miss Kate Burton, word on that.

[Ohmo]

First off, thank you to Oblique Angle for the explanation about the pearls.  I liked the response, but I want to say thanks more formally as well.

 

OhMo, I hate to admit it, but I don't remember how Jerry died/was killed. I thought it was Maya. Who is Hal and what did he do to infect Jerry? And was Maya involved at all?

 

 

No, Hal killed Jerry on Rowan's order.  Rowan gave Hal a ring that dispersed the bacteria.  Hal was on the First Family detail for a public appearance by Fitz, Mellie, Jerry IV, and Karen.  (I can't remember for what.  There was a political reason that Mellie and Fitz had to appear with the kids.)  Hal put his hand (on which he was wearing the ring) on Jerry's shoulder to walk him out on stage.  The bacteria presumably was aborbed through the skin, and the kid dropped within minutes in front of Mellie, Fitz, and the assembled crowd.

 

Rowan told Fitz that Maya did it so he'd have political cover to have her killed.  Fitz and Olivia both believe it was her mother, but it was, in fact, her father who had Jerry killed.  Hal worked for B613.

 

ETA: Forgot one very important detail.  Hal also worked for the Secret Service.  He reported details about the White House to Rowan (Olivia's dad) for B613.  Mellie became fond of Hal.  (Not romantically.  She'd often get him involved in one of her sideways plans.)  For that reason, I would like to see Mellie become aware of exactly who killed her son.  I'd think there would be fallout from that.  It'd be another difficult blow for Mellie to take.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Ohmo

[2KllMckngBrd]

OhMo, I hate to admit it, but I don't remember how Jerry died/was killed. I thought it was Maya. Who is Hal and what did he do to infect Jerry? And was Maya involved at all?

And for those who miss Kate Burton, word on that.

Papa Pope had Jerry killed. If I am keeping it all straight... There's a scene between Olivia and Papa after Maya stabbed his ass, where she is crying a twisted narcissistic river about Fitz losing the upcoming election. Sally had gotten the hero edit and bump after going all USA USA, we'll put a boot in there ass, after the church bombing. So Cyrus and Liv knew that America was loving Sally about then, and that she would win the next day. Olivia is telling all this to Daddy, and that all she wants is Fitz to be Pres again, 'cuz of course it's his turn, and he deserves it. So Papa Pope decides that Fitz has taken and soiled his baby, Olivia. And that Fitz can win if the country feels bad about his dead son, so he decides to kill, pun intended, 2 birds w/1 deadly syringe. He has Jerry injected w/meningitis. I think the line is, "Fitz took my child, so I took his".

 

The level of crazy brought by Kate Burton's Sally is missed, and needed. KB and Bellamy Young are such great actresses.

 

 

(Not deleting, but I see while I was typing Ohmo already answered your question. Sorry Ohmo-and you did a much better job doing it too)

Edited October 4, 2014 by 2KllMckngBrd

[Ohmo]

(Not deleting, but I see while I was typing Ohmo already answered your question. Sorry Ohmo-and you did a much better job doing it too)

 

2KllMckngBrd, nothing to be sorry about.  I didn't remember any of that jazz that you wrote about Olivia and Rowan.  I only focused on how Jerry actually died.  Explaining Scandal often takes more than one person to keep it all straight as to how things happened. :)

[Happytobehere]

I think Mellie was on the road to a nervous breakdown all of last season. Remember the drinking and the outbursts? Jerry's death was just the straw that broke the camel's back. So just dealing with her child's death will not address what got her this state.

I so want Jake to kick Oliva to the curb right as she is finally realizing how he is more than a Booty Call. I don't think its a coincidence that the only time when I saw anything approximating happiness from Olivia was when she was away with Jake. She treats him like a FItz back-up without grasping the fact that Jake remains the only person aside from Huck who is always there trying to pick up the pieces of her latest devastating trauma.

I have not liked Abby since Season Onewhen it was so clear that deep down she couldn't stand her. As far as we've seen, nothing you have achieved has been done sans Olivia. Prior to Liv giving you a life Abby, you were simply an extension to the batterer you were married to. You wouldn't even be employed now GABBY were it not for your connection to Olivia.

I have always hated Quinn and she is causing me to hate Huck. She just drains the life out of every scene she is in.

Fitz, go somewhere, cause please.

If the series does not end with Liv and Mellie having love and happiness with other men, while Fitz is left with nothing but the Jesus Juice, I will know all the jabs at Shonda and her shows is true - minus that racist crap printed by the Times.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Happytobehere

[Happytobehere]

Just look at the headline from that shitty tabloid New York Daily News when Chelsea Clinton had her baby.  Don't get me started on the comment section of any article, positive or negative, about her baby.  I totally believe that tabloid would stoop so low even in the death of a child.

I know the cover page you are referrencing and it appear in the New York Post. While The Daily News is indeed shitty. The New York Post is shittier.

[Nanrad]

Her lecture to Mellie was eye roll-inducing. Jacqueline Kennedy led the nation in mourning for her husband because the American people had just lost their President, and also because she understood the images and events that transpired in the days immediately post-assassination would constitute a major aspect of his legacy. Incomparable in most respects to the death of a child. Mellie should have indeed thrown her off of the balcony.

 

 

I actually liked the speech, but I thought the delivery was off--it was too fast and too harsh. I know SR likes fast delivery, but it would've been better with a softer, slower touch. 

 

Jackie's motivations may have been different, but at the end of the day, she still lost someone close to her--her husband. Abby noted that there were Americans who lost their children too and Mellie would be someone they looked to because of their own experience. For me, that's what made the speech. Yes, Mellie's loss is terrible, but other people lose kids as well. It doesn't mean you can't mourn, but spending all of your time mourning while neglecting your duty is just too much. I mean, Mellie has been doing this for three months AND it's not like she has to go out everyday. So, while Jackie's motivations were greater, Mellie has to go out as a First Lady because she is an extension of her husband's image and it could hurt him, but it could also give the nation hope. 

[PrincessTT]

First off, thank you to Oblique Angle for the explanation about the pearls.  I liked the response, but I want to say thanks more formally as well.

 

 

No, Hal killed Jerry on Rowan's order.  Rowan gave Hal a ring that dispersed the bacteria.  Hal was on the First Family detail for a public appearance by Fitz, Mellie, Jerry IV, and Karen.  (I can't remember for what.  There was a political reason that Mellie and Fitz had to appear with the kids.)  Hal put his hand (on which he was wearing the ring) on Jerry's shoulder to walk him out on stage.  The bacteria presumably was aborbed through the skin, and the kid dropped within minutes in front of Mellie, Fitz, and the assembled crowd.

 

Rowan told Fitz that Maya did it so he'd have political cover to have her killed.  Fitz and Olivia both believe it was her mother, but it was, in fact, her father who had Jerry killed.  Hal worked for B613.

 

ETA: Forgot one very important detail.  Hal also worked for the Secret Service.  He reported details about the White House to Rowan (Olivia's dad) for B613.  Mellie became fond of Hal.  (Not romantically.  She'd often get him involved in one of her sideways plans.)  For that reason, I would like to see Mellie become aware of exactly who killed her son.  I'd think there would be fallout from that.  It'd be another difficult blow for Mellie to take.

 

I thought it was Tom (Fitz's guy) who was working both Secret Service and B613. 

[Ohmo]

PrincessTT is correct.  According to finale recaps written by TVLine and the Washington Post, it was Tom.  I always had trouble with the various male Secret Service agents.  Guess I wasn't paying enough attention.  Not to be mean, but this new guy (Dave?) is bald, so maybe that will help me remember what his name is.

[panthergirl13]

Whoever frosted Lizziebear's hair, and Cyrus'...well whatever the hell is on the top of his head...they must be found, and, well, I'll leave that to the imagination. No where in nature, or a Crayola box, does that color occur.

My mother had a similar color at one point that I dubbed "Palomino".

 

Other "highlights" for me this week:

 

- The balcony scenes which were clearly shot on the set of The Truman Show

- The "paralyzed" woman who has the ability to cross and uncross her legs in her wheelchair

- That fucking Shonda Rhimes cadence. Honestly, I know that Sorkin is an annoying person and the West Wing had his 'schtick' all over it, but it was GOOD schtick. Quality schtick. And it didn't feel like you could swap out any of the actors from one part to another and it wouldn't matter. (in Rhimes' case, you can swap them from one SHOW to another and they wouldn't skip a beat.)

 

I'll keep hate-watching, usually while doing something else, just so I can come here and commiserate with the rest of you hate-watchers.

Edited October 4, 2014 by panthergirl13

[stafford]

Does Shonda care so little about the viewers that she thinks it's okay to have the State of the Union speech that is given in fucking January surrounded by green grass, trees full of green leaves and outdoor flower pots filled with annuals? (jjj, pointed this out on the first page of postings). It totally took me out of the story (what little story there is). I find it so insulting that Shonda doesn't care about those pesky details.

I've decided I can no longer hate watch this show-I just can't watch it any longer. The writing is terrible and the acting even worse (and I'm including Bellamy). They might as well have used the green screen to show a shark jumping over the Washington Monument. I saw the cast on the Ellen show last week and they all seemed so pleased with themselves that they have a hit TV series. I can't believe the critics are not ripping this show to shreds. In the case of Scandal the emperor truly has no clothes (boots, yes-clothes, no).

God awful.

[lion10]

Okay episode and I'll say it since nobody else has: it was very nice to see Kerry Washington's back.

[wanderingstar]

Does Shonda care so little about the viewers that she thinks it's okay to have the State of the Union speech that is given in fucking January surrounded by green grass, trees full of green leaves and outdoor flower pots filled with annuals? (jjj, pointed this out on the first page of postings). It totally took me out of the story (what little story there is). I find it so insulting that Shonda doesn't care about those pesky details.

Shonda & the writers have never seemed particularly interested in doing genuine world building for this show. Just like they've never seemed too keen on character development.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Gillian Rosh

[Anna Yolei]

Does Shonda care so little about the viewers that she thinks it's okay to have the State of the Union speech that is given in fucking January surrounded by green grass, trees full of green leaves and outdoor flower pots filled with annuals? (jjj, pointed this out on the first page of postings). It totally took me out of the story (what little story there is). I find it so insulting that Shonda doesn't care about those pesky details

I thought that irritated only me. That sort of oversight would embarrass Ryan "Continuity is a Thing?" Murphy.

[lunastartron]

That was 149 years ago, so I'm not sure how that is relevant to now, and that's not even mentioning how that is a whitewashing of history (no pun intended). The Democrats were once infiltrated by the Dixiecrats who found a new home in the Republican party, especially after they implemented the Southern Strategy. They have ridden that misogynistic and racist horse to this very day. Also, Republicans have since disavowed the end of slavery what with some of them being signatories to a document declaring that black people were better off during slavery. Fitz couldn't possibly be elected even in the 1970s, let alone now. His election and ability to suffocate a Supreme Court justice are equally improbable,  but they are both real, so we have to run with it.

 

I am only here for Mellie these days. I've always loved her the most and Bellamy Young is slaying. I've also always thought that she was the best actress on the show. The character and the actress are so good.

 

Did anyone think last night's "Lenny Skutniks" were based on Gabby Giffords and her husband? I thought of them immediately when they gave the background of the characters. If so, that is really shitty of Shonda. 

 

 

 

No, that's not true. And, it is actually worse than it is portrayed in the media because even in cases where white men should be earning less (having less education, not living on the coasts, and working in typically lower paying jobs), they still make more than white women, who're the women who earn the most. I know that there has been an insidious lie that white men earn less than Asian men, but that has been revealed as a lie. If you're interested in looking at the wage breakdown across racial and gender lines, especially as they intersect, here's a study.

I think it's less "every party has been progressive" (as the previous poster put it) and more "institutionalized racism has encompassed every part of the political apparatus." The myth that Southern Democrats defected en masse to the GOP during the 1960s is just that, a reductive myth. While Nixon and later strategists like Atwater certainly did exploit racial tensions for their electoral prerogatives, the Democratic party retained control in many Southern states continuously from Reconstruction to the millennium, even with the Republican Revolution of '94. George Wallace almost won the Dem presidential nom in '72, four years after the implementation of the Southern Strategy. Georgia - in terms of the state legislature or governorship - didn't turn red until 2002; Arkansas's Congressional delegation only flipped in the late aughties. Neither West Virginia nor Kentucky have shifted wholly to the GOP, and the elder statesman of the national Democratic party until 2010 from WV was an emeritus of the KKK who went on national television this side of 2000 defending the use of the term "n***ers," only to be eulogized in adulatory terms by party leaders upon his death.

 

 

 

I actually liked the speech, but I thought the delivery was off--it was too fast and too harsh. I know SR likes fast delivery, but it would've been better with a softer, slower touch. 

 

Jackie's motivations may have been different, but at the end of the day, she still lost someone close to her--her husband. Abby noted that there were Americans who lost their children too and Mellie would be someone they looked to because of their own experience. For me, that's what made the speech. Yes, Mellie's loss is terrible, but other people lose kids as well. It doesn't mean you can't mourn, but spending all of your time mourning while neglecting your duty is just too much. I mean, Mellie has been doing this for three months AND it's not like she has to go out everyday. So, while Jackie's motivations were greater, Mellie has to go out as a First Lady because she is an extension of her husband's image and it could hurt him, but it could also give the nation hope. 

Considering the context - in which Abby was motivated by desire to one-up Olivia professionally - I found the monologue rather crass and distasteful. Additionally, although I understand the symbolic import of the role, the title of "First Lady" is an informal one and the position unelected. As the President's children are also private citizens in that neither they nor their mother were voted into office (and the death of the first son does not destabilize the country in the manner that a Presidential assassination would), I don't think Mellie is under any obligation to grieve in a proscribed or prescripted way.

[l star]

I liked Abby's speech to Mellie. Abby doesn't know Mellie or the Grants. She doesn't have children. She has no idea how it is to grieve in front of the world. She was basically armchair-ing it like I do when I comment about some celeb tragedy on a gossip blog. She had no business even being on that balcony but like Olivia would have, she went anyway and got lucky. I also think that is why it resonated with Mellie. Abby's Jackie Kennedy comparison was bull but the reference wasn't. Mellie had to go to the SOTU for the same reason she had to give a press conference after Fitz was shot- the role and expectations for the first lady are about the country, not Mellie. I think her comment about most people not having months to fall apart resonated with Mellie's highly educated, ambitious side. People aren't just seeing her as grieving; they are seeing her as wallowing in her grief like a lazy rich person. That I think resonated with Mellie who knows and understands the value of appearances for her and her family.

 

I also thought it was a nice contrast to how everyone else has treated Mellie. Cyrus tries to push but folds quickly. The only way I can describe the behavior we've seen from the Secret Service is sweet (which makes scenes like the chips at the gravesite even sadder and I didn't think that was possible after they showed Fitz working while he patiently waited for her in the car. From the previous scene, it seems he just dropped everything to go and that is as heartbreaking as Mellie sitting on his grave like she's sitting by Jerry's bed). Those people know Mellie and are giving her what they think she needs. I think Abby was essentially the public's voice calling Mellie back to her duty which really has little to do with Mellie needs.

 

All that said, I am looking forward to the Abby/Olivia throw down that is definitely coming. Fitz and Cyrus may not think she's important enough to even remember her name correctly (a pet peeve of mine- that kind of disrespect is just asshole behavior) but I think she can give Olivia a fight.

 

It's nice seeing Olivia talk and smile with someone who can have her name in his phone as 'Liv'. It's nice seeing her in anything resembling an actual relationship. I just wish she would stop with the relationship definitions and treat Jake like a friend. They can have sex, they can date, whatever. But if she would just chill and not only act like he is someone she trusts and likes but also treat him that way, I think the whole situation would be a lot happier. I do wish we could have Jake without B-613 but at least his investigation makes sense. My only issue with him looking into Harrison's death is why the hell isn't Olivia doing it?

I had a thought while watching this episode.  "I might actually have voted for Fitzgerald Grant."   I liked him.  Its not him I hate.  Its the Fitz/Olivia pairing that grates.  I actually like him when he is not mooning over Olivia.

I know! Who would have thought Fitz could seem genuinely presidential and electable? I am really liking this continued focus on Fitz/Mellie. I thought Fitz holding Mellie while she cried was a striking mirror to the end of last season. Fitz was falling apart alone in the Oval Office, and Mellie held him and tried to get ahold of Olivia like he asked. Now he orders the Secret Service out to hold her and giving her whatever she says she needs. While I don't think Olivia and free reign to wallow are what either of them actually need, it's nice watching them stand together. I may not believe that this couple has a happy home life but I can believe they can survive the hell that is two presidential campaigns and weathering the presidency. That is more interesting to me than Vermont ever was.

 

What was going on with VP Andrew and Cyrus? I don't remember them hating each other before. Maybe when Fitz was having his 'bad nights' Andrew tried to step up a little too far?

 

Cyrus and his grief just aren't hitting for me. Which is odd because I do think he would grieve like he had never hired someone to kill James. I think it is more about the Grants' tragedy showing him he is a sad old man with little to show for it once Fitz's term is done. That I can roll with but I need them to stop calling it massive grief for James.

What did Fitz mean when he told Olivia "you at least owe me that."? Was he talking about Jerry's death, or something more personal between the two of them? I forget if he knows or suspects that Olivia's father was involved with Jerry's sudden illness.

I think he meant her leaving. They are supposed to be true loves, soul mates, etc. Yet when he found out his father raped his wife, his son died, and he had to step into his second term when he was falling apart, Olivia took off without even a text to tip him off. For that, I absolutely think she owes him. You don't do that to people you love. I do object to him using it to get time with her though because that will inevitably lead to cringe-worthy anger sex and/or general Olitz crap and I don't want it. Let me keep this Fitz that I can like and this Olivia who can be a functioning person on her own. I am liking seeing their separate worlds much more than the White House show last season became.

Edited October 5, 2014 by l star

[La Tortuga]

 

Considering the context - in which Abby was motivated by desire to one-up Olivia professionally - I found the monologue rather crass and distasteful. Additionally, although I understand the symbolic import of the role, the title of "First Lady" is an informal one and the position unelected. As the President's children are also private citizens in that neither they nor their mother were voted into office (and the death of the first son does not destabilize the country in the manner that a Presidential assassination would), I don't think Mellie is under any obligation to grieve in a proscribed or prescripted way.

 

While I agree with you in that I think Mellie shouldn't be under any obligation to grieve in a proscribed way (because no one should), I don't think that changes the societal expectation that she is obligated to behave in certain ways, just like the Queen of England. The fact that her position was not an elected one doesn't diminish the fact that The First Lady is a highly public role, and that this role is a tool in every modern president's toolbox. In that respect, the First Lady's position is probably more powerful and more vulnerable to exploitation than that of the Queen of England, precisely because the First Lady is considered a reflection of her husband, who in turn is trying to convey his own excellence in all areas of his life and push an agenda that requires public support to achieve. This is evidenced on the show by the recurring appearance of arranged political marriages, with politicians seeking spouses that meet a standard of respectability and potential for public appeal. Moreover, Mellie is well aware of her role; she's been tapped to run interference a number of times in the last 3 seasons. She doesn't want to play anymore, and I for one don't blame her, but that doesn't change the fact that the role is hers until Fitz leaves office.

 

First Ladies really do get a raw deal. I'm not sure living in the White House is worth the price these women pay.

[Empress1]

- The "paralyzed" woman who has the ability to cross and uncross her legs in her wheelchair

If she has use of her hands, she could pick up her legs to cross and uncross them.

[Julia]

They are supposed to be true loves, soul mates, etc. Yet when he found out his father raped his wife, his son died, and he had to step into his second term when he was falling apart, Olivia took off without even a text to tip him off. For that, I absolutely think she owes him. You don't do that to people you love.

I don't know that staying between a married couple when they're going through something like that is a loving act. It's perfectly clear that Fitz would never voluntarily step away or let Olivia step away if he were given a choice. It was also pretty clear that he decided to stick with his marriage. I think leaving was the first decent choice she's made pretty much ever.

[formergr]

I know this show isn't realistic, but there are still certain things that just really bug me.

 ...

 

I also don't buy that people would believe that the president's son just happened to get bacterial meningitis and die from it. The odds of that happening to someone in the U.S. are positively miniscule. Barely anyone would believe it was just an enormous coincidence.

 

For what it's worth, about 4,100 people a year (http://www.cdc.gov/meningitis/bacterial.html) are struck with bacterial meningitis in the United States, and 500 die from it, so it's not completely unbelievable that Jerry died from it by chance.

[Dowel Jones]

Cyrus has been on the hill long enough to know that getting hit on is never just getting hit on.  There is always something in the background, either a favor, access, or Scandal impending!

 

I think the barroom scene was meant to show that alcohol played a large part in the process.

 

Regarding Abby's turn as Presidential Press Secretary, I know that her off-hand comment stirred some consternation in the WH staff, but, really, show?  In real life, I would think that a Press Secretary who made a joke out of mental illness and jabbed at a member of the White House Press Corps would be savaged in the press the next day.  Her credibility would be ruined, even with the apology.  She doesn't get to be OPA Abby anymore.  She has a real job now.

[Oblique Angle]

I think he meant her leaving. They are supposed to be true loves, soul mates, etc. Yet when he found out his father raped his wife, his son died, and he had to step into his second term when he was falling apart, Olivia took off without even a text to tip him off. For that, I absolutely think she owes him. You don't do that to people you love.

<insert here the laundry list of ways Fitz has abused his power of office to force Olivia to bend to his will (although many times little effort was required)>

 

Even though Olivia's occasionally called on Fitz to use his power for favors to her (e.g., getting her mommy the terrorist out of the country), I think the "owe me" list is still heavily in her favor at this point. He's the married man who's still publicly clinging to his wife and marriage, and has the fate of the nation in his grasp. I don't think Fitz has much room to be making demands of her. AFAIC, the "you owe me" business was just another instance of Fitz' pernicious sense of entitlement.

[Ohmo]

While I agree with you in that I think Mellie shouldn't be under any obligation to grieve in a proscribed way (because no one should), I don't think that changes the societal expectation that she is obligated to behave in certain ways, just like the Queen of England. The fact that her position was not an elected one doesn't diminish the fact that The First Lady is a highly public role, and that this role is a tool in every modern president's toolbox. In that respect, the First Lady's position is probably more powerful and more vulnerable to exploitation than that of the Queen of England, precisely because the First Lady is considered a reflection of her husband, who in turn is trying to convey his own excellence in all areas of his life and push an agenda that requires public support to achieve. This is evidenced on the show by the recurring appearance of arranged political marriages, with politicians seeking spouses that meet a standard of respectability and potential for public appeal. Moreover, Mellie is well aware of her role; she's been tapped to run interference a number of times in the last 3 seasons. She doesn't want to play anymore, and I for one don't blame her, but that doesn't change the fact that the role is hers until Fitz leaves office.

 

First Ladies really do get a raw deal. I'm not sure living in the White House is worth the price these women pay.

 

 

Intellectually, I understand what you're saying, but I think the fact that Jerry was a child changes things.  OK, so he was a teenager, but he wasn't an adult.  He was 16---not old enough to vote or drink and barely old enough to drive.  It's not even like he told Fitz and Mellie he wanted to join the military and they sent him off to combat.  He was 16!  There is a vast difference to me between Jackie losing JFK in office, and Jackie losing JFK Jr. or Caroline while JFK was in office.  I was born several years after JFK and Camelot, and my mother has told me about the loss of baby Patrick.  However, that was light years of difference from the social media era that we're in now.  Thankfully, in this era, we have never seen a major world leader lose a younger child while in the public eye.  We have no idea what that looks like, but I'm hard-pressed to think that the "rules" would be so cut-and-dry.  Things would beome very complicated, i think.

 

The Queen of England reference also makes me consider something else.  William was 15 when Diana died.  If God forbid, HE had been in that car in Paris instead of his mother, no one would have given a rat's ass about what Elizabeth felt.  Every photography lens in the world would have been trying to get a picture of Diana's reaction, and she also was not known to be particulary stable all the time.  Makes me think that what we're seeing with Mellie might not be all that far-fetched.  The world has just been fortunate enough to not have had to deal with that situation...and hopefully it never will.

[jjj]

They might as well have used the green screen to show a shark jumping over the Washington Monument.

 

Indeed, if they are going for fantasy backdrops, why not GO for it?

[Dowel Jones]

However, that was light years of difference from the social media era that we're in now

 

The recent PBS series on the Roosevelts had an amazing tidbit.  As most everyone now knows, FDR was paralysed and had to be carried from his car to his wheelchair.  Even the public was prohibited from photographing him at this time, and if citizens were witnessed doing so, the Secret Service confiscated their cameras and destroyed the film.

[Crucial]

I feel so so bad for Mellie.  I can't imagine that happening and I can see her handling it that way and not caring at all.  I know I wouldn't care at all about anything happening in the US.  But I did like the 'smack down' if that's what it's called because it was real, honestly real for Mellie.  I guess a first lady would do that and should do that but still.  I'm glad they showed her deciding her dress, her reactions on the speech, and afterwards.  Mellie was so so hard and I felt so bad for her (Bellamy thank you for that).  Oh Cyrus please don't fall for that set up.  You are smarter than that.  Portia, I hate your character but dang if you don't make your role fun, lol.

[wanderingstar]

AFAIC, the "you owe me" business was just another instance of Fitz' pernicious sense of entitlement.

 

 

Yep. I'm still irked that Olivia didn't just punch him in the face and walk out. And this is coming from someone who is NOT an Olivia fan.

[PrincessTT]

Intellectually, I understand what you're saying, but I think the fact that Jerry was a child changes things.  OK, so he was a teenager, but he wasn't an adult.  He was 16---not old enough to vote or drink and barely old enough to drive.  It's not even like he told Fitz and Mellie he wanted to join the military and they sent him off to combat.  He was 16!  There is a vast difference to me between Jackie losing JFK in office, and Jackie losing JFK Jr. or Caroline while JFK was in office.  I was born several years after JFK and Camelot, and my mother has told me about the loss of baby Patrick.  However, that was light years of difference from the social media era that we're in now.  Thankfully, in this era, we have never seen a major world leader lose a younger child while in the public eye.  We have no idea what that looks like, but I'm hard-pressed to think that the "rules" would be so cut-and-dry.  Things would beome very complicated, i think.

 

The Queen of England reference also makes me consider something else.  William was 15 when Diana died.  If God forbid, HE had been in that car in Paris instead of his mother, no one would have given a rat's ass about what Elizabeth felt.  Every photography lens in the world would have been trying to get a picture of Diana's reaction, and she also was not known to be particulary stable all the time.  Makes me think that what we're seeing with Mellie might not be all that far-fetched.  The world has just been fortunate enough to not have had to deal with that situation...and hopefully it never will.

 

Our Prime Minister David Cameron and his wife Samantha lost their 6 year old son in 2009 the year before he became PM, they were very much in the public eye at the time though. Trying to remember back to it I think the media were, on-the-whole, quite respectful and gave them the privacy to grieve; however it still gets used in newspaper headlines when Cameron talks about the NHS, just this week he gave a speech about the NHS and referenced the great care his son had received and the papers the next day focused on how Samantha had been close to years rather than talking about the actual content of the speech. 

 

It didn't seem like anyone told them they had to follow certain rules or grieve in a certain way though. 

[DearEvette]

Well, I am obviously in the minority here.  I think Mellie's storyline feels indulgent and am not in any way wowed by Bellamy Young's portrayal.  I think part of the problem is I didn't give two fucks about Jerry so Mellie's wallow just doesn't touch me.  I am not invested in her pain.  I am also cynical enough to feel that the flourishes added to this subplot (the clothing, the fried chicken, the snappy little one-liners) is nothing but a calculated ploy to create buzz about it.  Something to make it twitter worthy and repeatable.  it worked.  Eh, with all the scenes of her eating food at least she is literally chewing scenery instead of figuratively the way she always does.

 

Honestly, I found Harrison's funeral and the small, sad little revelation about his non-family and background more affecting that all the scenes about Mellie mourning combined.

[NeenerNeener]

 

No, that was Matthew Del Negro. I know him from The Sopranos, where he played Carmela's cousin Brian, the financial advisor.

And some of us also know him from Teen Wolf. So, at last we learn why Mama McCall kicked Papa McCall to the curb!

[l star]

<insert here the laundry list of ways Fitz has abused his power of office to force Olivia to bend to his will (although many times little effort was required)>

 

Even though Olivia's occasionally called on Fitz to use his power for favors to her (e.g., getting her mommy the terrorist out of the country), I think the "owe me" list is still heavily in her favor at this point. He's the married man who's still publicly clinging to his wife and marriage, and has the fate of the nation in his grasp. I don't think Fitz has much room to be making demands of her. AFAIC, the "you owe me" business was just another instance of Fitz' pernicious sense of entitlement.

I'm with you that he owes her and if she had told him no to a request I would agree with her. But regardless of the balance of the relationship, I still think saying you love someone then skipping out on them when they need you most without even a 'see ya' note is bad form. Olivia doesn't owe him anything for leaving. She owes him for the way she did it IMO. That said, an 'I'm sorry for not letting you know I was going' would completely fulfill any obligation for me. She does not need to bend to his every whim now. His expectation and her acquiescence shows both his feelings of entitlement to her skills and services and her willingness to take all his bad behavior like she enjoys it (which I frequently think she unfortunately does).

 

While the loss of a child would definitely garner sympathy, I'm not surprised at all about the headlines. If Mellie wasn't photographed grieving, she would be raked over the coals as cold. Shown crying, she's falling apart. Shown in a truly private moment of grief, she's nuts. Shown not clinging to Fitz, they are breaking up in grief. There is very little latitude in the press and social media anymore for reaction to anything. Everyone expects their own version of grief on their own timetable and if that person doesn't follow it, they are criticized. I think those headlines would happen, as would headlines then defending her, which would move into talk shows and radio discussion, all blown to massive proportion through social media discussion.

[topanga]

 

Cyrus and his grief just aren't hitting for me. Which is odd because I do think he would grieve like he had never hired someone to kill James.

Cyrus is acting like he never imagined living without James, which is crazy. I think the writers want the audience to forget about Cyrus' hit on James , much like they want us to forget about the President's assassination attempt and Jake's knockdown of Olivia that put her in the hospital. When you think about it, if something happened in a prior season that doesn't gel with this season's storyline, we're supposed to pretend it never happened.  If the plot point don't fit, you must forget.

[Julia]

I'm not impressed with this season so far, but I can kind of buy Cyrus' response. He can't function if he recognizes what's happened and what his role in it was, and so he doesn't. Cyrus has left all of his humanity behind in the service of Fitz, who on some level he recognizes that he resents bitterly for being born rich and pretty and getting the place Cyrus thinks he could have gotten for himself, if he weren't plain and short and gay. Then Fitz, even though he was handed everything, fucked up badly enough in a huge spasm of self pity and self indulgence that James, the only person who actually cared about plain, short, gay Cyrus, had to be killed to cover up his bullshit.

What does Cyrus have left, other than being the puppet master with his hand up Fitz' ass? And he can't do that if he lets himself know what he's done.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Julia

[La Tortuga]

If she has use of her hands, she could pick up her legs to cross and uncross them.

 

She could, but the question remains why she would particularly want to if she has no sensation in her legs. Surely not for her own physical comfort.