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S05.E02: The Good Listener

Athena

By Athena
in Boardwalk Empire [V]

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SomeJabroni

SomeJabroni

(edited)

Wow.  After what I thought was a rather lackluster previous season, I am really enjoying this season a lot.  The writing itself seems better - no daughters (capitalized or no) wasting precious screen time, and I'm also really liking the pacing of each person's story as well as its actual content.  As to the flashbacks; I generally consider flashbacks the sign of hack writing or simply an overused trope, but I think these flashbacks of Nucky's childhood are excellent.  My only nitpick would be that they should have been shown around the time Jimmy got whacked; either interspersed with Jimmy's scenes of conspiring against Nucky or perhaps shortly thereafter.  And I'd really REALLY like to see some background on Gillian & how she got involved with Nucky & the Commodore.

 

ETA:  The 'special delivery' to Meyer Lansky at the end!  I knew he was gonna get got as soon as he sat down with Nucks, but did not even place him as the guy who killed Billie Kent.  Revenge served cold, indeed!

 

I'm still processing Eli & Van Alden...

Edited by SomeJabroni
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SomeJabroni

SomeJabroni

was the guy killed at the end responsible for Billie's death?

 

I'm almost positive he was.  The way that waiter mentioned what a great actress Billie Kent was, then the camera panned directly to a picture of her on the wall, made me think that was what they were going for in that scene.

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alynch

alynch

(edited)

was the guy killed at the end responsible for Billie's death?

 

Yep, he was Rosetti's #2 back in season 3, who eventually killed him. He appeared again a few times last season, now working for Masseria.

 

Regarding the writer's theory about the show's endgame, 

half of it is already confirmed to be true. Winter said in one of his promotional interviews that we will see Young Gillian during these flashbacks, and I can't imagine any reason to feature her except to show Nucky procuring her for The Commodore.

 

I hope the D.C. characters haven't been completely abandoned for this final stretch. I'd love to see Esther, Gaston Means, and J. Edgar at least one more time.

Edited by alynch
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Lambie

Lambie

(edited)

I love me some fruit loop Gillian! I love the fake out that it could have been a spa and it turned out to be an asylum. Also loved the weirdness with the warden(?) and Gillian's clothes. Who is she going to write her crazy letters to? I can't wait to see how this turns out.

What did Van Alden say as they were running away from the stick-up? Why must this always be ______? Hilarious. Nothing has changed with him, for sure.

Still hate the time skip. It's too far. No one would remember a chorus girl 8 years later. No one barely knew her when she was alive which is why she was Nucky's project. Loved hearing Eddie singing in the beginning. I miss those early days of BE as much as Nucky does, I think.

Little Nucky continues to blow me away. Great acting.

Edit: it was "pandemonium!" Absolutely perfect coming from him.

Edited by Lambie
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thuganomics85

thuganomics85

(edited)

Ah, so after last week's nudity-free episode, they had to counter it tonight, with a whole "Naked women in a psych ward" scene.  Oh, Boardwalk Empire.  I was going to add they also got their Gretchen Mol nudity out of the way too, but I wonder if that was a body-double, since we only saw her from the back.  Maybe she's have enough of that.  Either way, I'm strangely happy to see Gillian back. She's a nutter, who has done horrid things, but she has a had a horrible life, so I can see why she became like this.  Plus, on this show, there are characters who have done way worst.  I am curious to see what her endgame will be.

 

Back in Chicago!  Al is loving the life, and I'm glad Ralph is still around.  But, of course, the Van Alden and Eli team was just awesome.  Those two together are something else.  Interesting to see how Eli is really hurting from being away from his family, while Van Alden being with his family seems to just make him go crazier.  Either way, I think I'm going to love this.  Shea Whigham has always been an underrated talent, and Michael Shannon at this point, has perfected playing characters who always seem this close to snapping and blowing shit up.  I'm not sure if I want these two to go out together in a blaze of glory, or somehow continue to dodge the bullets.

 

No surprise that Lucky and Lansky are still in an alliance, and are trying to bide their time, and just take over.  But Nucky now knows the hit attempt was their doing (at least he thinks it was them.  I'm still confused over that), and is already fighting back.  Although, judging from history, I at least know where some of this is going.  But, next week could be very interesting if the previews are true, and Lucky/Lansky might work with 

Dr. Narcisse.

 

The flashbacks surprisingly continue to be great.  Really love the actors playing young Nucky and young Commodore.  

Edited by thuganomics85
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BusyOctober

BusyOctober

I'm a little concerned that Al Capone (or his accountant) will figure out Mueller & Eli "stole from Peter to pay Paul".  One bag of an estimated $20 G's is missing, but Behold! another bag with that amount arrives in 24 hours?  But maybe Al's coke & syphilis addled brain won't be sharp enough to see it.  I wonder if BE will reenact DeNiro's "Baseball" scene from The Untouchables?  Was anyone else waiting for the elevator car to drop or for guns blazing when the doors opened on each floor when Eli & Mueller left All's??  I was so anxious until "Mutt & Jeff" safely walked off the elevator!

 

Can someone remind me why Eli had to split town and hide out w/ Al in Chicago?  I can't remember what happened to trigger that event.

 

I knew that was Joe Kennedy at the meeting!  Now there's an up and comer poor Irish boy who knew how to keep legitimate biz separate from the dirty side.  Talk about an "empire"! As a young Bostonian, entrenched in Kennedy lore and adoration, I was surprised when I learned a bulk of the Kennedy dynasty was built on booze.

 

Very relieved we didn't have to see Gillian suffer through a prison rape, but wouldn't her clothes be at least a decade out of fashion for Ms. Matronly Matron?  But I suppose being au courant  didn't matter in the Depression.

 

(sigh) Narcisse is back next week.  I was hoping he'd be gone after last season.  His character was very tiring IMO.

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Neurochick

Neurochick

(edited)

Last season Eli killed an FBI agent who I think was an Elliot Ness wannabe.  Eli beat the guy's brains out in his own home, so he had to go bye bye before the Feds arrested him, or I think that's what happened.

 

I can't stand Gillian and I wish she would go away forever, but I think that's because they really wasted her character.  I really thought she would have tried to hook up with Richard in season 3, being that Richard was Jimmy's friend and well, if she can't have Jimmy, she'll have his best friend.  I think that would have been interesting, especially if she fell for him.  

 

But now I just find Gillian a loathsome character, sure she had a shitty life, but she slept with her own son and that was NOT right, no matter how you were raised.

 

Ugh, Narcisse...I wish he'd just go away, or maybe Chalky can kill him once and for all.

 

Nice to see another "Wire" alum in this show, Jim True-Frost, as Elliot Ness.

Edited by Neurochick
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hincandenza

hincandenza

Eli killed that crooked federal agent in his living room, the one that was reporting to J. Edgar Hoover (after Eli agreed to sell out Nucky and others), hence his removal from AC, and why he's fittingly paired with van Alden/Mueller in Chicago, who himsef fled AC for similar reasons on the other side of the badge.

I do get that the lackey was once working for Rosetti, and thus responsible in part for Billie's death, but I thought he killed Rosetti himself at the end of that season, on *behalf* of Nucky, as penance/loyalty test so as to keep himself alive. Revenge for that now, especially 8 years later, seems odd- even more so since that guy worked for Mazano, at least formally speaking. And for that matter, why did that guy ever tell the earcutter where Lansky was- it seemed as soon as the waiter mentioned Billie and he looked at that picture, he knew he was a dead man. Did he just stay seated until the nice Cuban killed him and cut off his ear, after helpfully writing down the address Lansky would be at that very night?

I'm also confused on Lansky and Lucciano. They are still in cahoots, and aiming to be the final two standing, but unless I completely misheard I thought one takeaway from that bordello meeting was that they *didn't* try to have Nucky killed in Havana, and Lansky really was just saying hi when he coincidentally ran into Nucky, because it would be awkward not to... but that for some reason they wanted this Mazano guy, and Nucky, believing otherwise.

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Drogo

Drogo

 

I can't stand Gillian and I wish she would go away forever, but I think that's because they really wasted her character.  I really thought she would have tried to hook up with Richard in season 3, being that Richard was Jimmy's friend and well, if she can't have Jimmy, she'll have his best friend.

 

See, and for me, having her live happily ever after with Richard Harrow would be a waste of her character. 

Gillian's the most interesting character on the show.  I think we'll see more of how she became herself as the season goes on.  I'm expecting a brutal flashback too. 

 

 

I thought one takeaway from that bordello meeting was that they *didn't* try to have Nucky killed in Havana, and Lansky really was just saying hi when he coincidentally ran into Nucky, because it would be awkward not to...

 

They were responsible... when Siegel gets on Meyer's case for talking to him before the hit, Meyer says "He saw me, Benny... Better to face it head on."

 

 

I do get that the lackey was once working for Rosetti, and thus responsible in part for Billie's death

 

He was Rosetti's lieutenant... his 2nd in command... far from a lackey. 

 

He had it comin'... Sold out Rosetti to Nucky, sold out Masseria to Maranzano, sold out Maranzano to Lucky/Meyer, and sold out Lucky/Meyer to Nucky.

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ganesh

ganesh

No surprise that Lucky and Lansky are still in an alliance, and are trying to bide their time, and just take over.

 

Considering history, they are in the process of inventing the modern mafia. I was confused when Luciano was all like "eh we don't talk." Because it would have been an egregious rewriting of history.

 

He had it comin'... Sold out Rosetti to Nucky, sold out Masseria to Maranzano, sold out Maranzano to Lucky/Meyer, and sold out Lucky/Meyer to Nucky.

 

Guys like that outlive their usefulness. You know they can be bought and there's a point where the return on paying them just isn't there. It's easier to just wipe them out. He had to go and the fact that he had a hand with Billie is a bonus. 

 

I could watch just Van Alden grumping around for an hour. I hope he makes it through the show. 

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Avaleigh

Avaleigh

(edited)

I thought this episode was much stronger than the premiere. I thought it was great.

Loved the elevator scene. I can watch Eli and Van Alden with each other all day long--wasn't expecting to enjoy that so much. I also lol when Van Alden told him that he reeked of urine. I was sure he was going to say booze and then wondered why those ladies and the elevator operator weren't visibly disgusted and uncomfortable taking a ride with a urine soaked passenger.

I enjoyed seeing the scenes with Al now that he's officially on top. All of that over done laughter--I was again reminded of a moment in the show The Sopranos where the boss Tony's wife tells Tony that his underlings have to laugh at whatever stupid jokes he happens to make because they're scared of him and they feel like they have to kiss his ass. I strongly felt that the same sort of vibe was taking place in the hotel room scenes with Al. Then something that actually is funny (at least IMO) is met with silence like when Al is clearly too fucked up on drugs to remember why he wanted to talk to that guy Mike (?) after being all insistent moments before with his brother that he needed to talk to the guy Mike ASAP.

It was nice to see Nucky forced into stating the fact that he's a bootlegger in front of men like that. Satisfying.

So Gillian is just now getting writing paper after six or seven years? Yikes. I too am glad that there wasn't a sexual angle to what the warden wanted. I'm guessing she'll write to Nucky and she'll try to guilt him into helping her. I don't think she has any other options.

As far as the actual scene in the mental health facility- -all I could think was how difficult it would be to keep any remaining sanity if one were forced to live in conditions such as those for years on end. Ugh, and I felt awful to see Gillian being forced into the role of playing a "good girl" again. It was definitely a shout out to the season 3 finale where Nucky and Eli find her after she's been forcibly injected with heroin and she's hallucinating that she's a child again who has just been "good" for Nucky by having endured the Commodore's rape of her.

I agree about it feeling a bit unrealistic that Billie would be so well remembered or that her murder would be addressed in that way nearly a decade later.

Tonino isn't very good at reading a room, is he? I actually raised my eyebrows when he decided to sit after Luciano, Lansky, and Siegel made it a point of standing at that moment.

Nucky's father just might be the very worst. What an awful man. Why wouldn't the Commodore have given the money to Nucky's mother or hell even to Nucky? I also felt a callback to the first season where Nucky was all pissed when Hans Schroeder spent the money he'd given Margaret in order to help their family. It makes sense why Nucky was so angry with Hans because Hans totally reminded him of how horrible his own father would be.

Edited by Avaleigh
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jcin617

jcin617

maybe Al's coke & syphilis addled brain won't be sharp enough to see it.

It didn't seem like them returning the money even registered with Al (or he didn't really care);  note they didn't even count the money or try to keep it seperate from the other piles to count later.

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Drogo

Drogo

"It wouldn't be ethical." "The law's a shield, sir, not a sword."

 

Hey St. Willie, remember when you killed a guy and framed your roommate for it?  And it ended up with your father as a fugitive in Chicago for the murder of a federal agent, destroying the lives of your mother and countless younger siblings?  Yeah, me neither.

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editorgrrl

editorgrrl

Will's ethics were questioned at the job interview, just as his Uncle Nucky's were all those years ago.

It's reassuring to see a flashback pay off.

 

Wow.  After what I thought was a rather lackluster previous season, I am really enjoying this season a lot.  The writing itself seems better - no daughters (capitalized or no) wasting precious screen time, and I'm also really liking the pacing of each person's story as well as its actual content.  As to the flashbacks; I generally consider flashbacks the sign of hack writing or simply an overused trope, but I think these flashbacks of Nucky's childhood are excellent.  My only nitpick would be that they should have been shown around the time Jimmy got whacked; either interspersed with Jimmy's scenes of conspiring against Nucky or perhaps shortly thereafter.  And I'd really REALLY like to see some background on Gillian & how she got involved with Nucky & the Commodore.

 

Nucky's father just might be the very worst. What an awful man. Why wouldn't the Commodore have given the money to Nucky's mother or hell even to Nucky? I also felt a callback to the first season where Nucky was all pissed when Hans Schroeder spent the money he'd given Margaret in order to help their family. It makes sense why Nucky was so angry with Hans because Hans totally reminded him of how horrible his own father would be.

 

Great catch, Avaleigh! Like SomeJabroni, when I heard about the seven-year jump I thought it was lazy writing. But I have been pleasantly surprised by the way the flashbacks are being used.

 

And I, too, would like to see young Gillian. But isn't she at least 10 years younger than Nucky? Meaning the flashbacks would have to jump forward.

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Pallas

Pallas

I also felt a callback to the first season where Nucky was all pissed when Hans Schroeder spent the money he'd given Margaret in order to help their family. It makes sense why Nucky was so angry with Hans because Hans totally reminded him of how horrible his own father would be.
Great catch, Avaleigh!

 

Truly: thank you for the reminder, Avaleigh.    

 

And you too, Show.  I feel as if the showrunner and writers steeped themselves in Boardwalk's early creative juices, before opening this closing.  At least, re-immersed themselves within Nucky's original character profile and shadings, since the dramatic line they had in mind five years ago was rubbed out with Jimmy and his kin, save Gillian and Tommy.

 

Now in 1931, Tommy is already older than Gillian was when her life was commandeered.  Will we see Tommy spared by Richard's intervention as surely as Gillian was subverted by Nucky's?  

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Neurochick

Neurochick

Hey St. Willie, remember when you killed a guy and framed your roommate for it?  And it ended up with your father as a fugitive in Chicago for the murder of a federal agent, destroying the lives of your mother and countless younger siblings?  Yeah, me neither.

 

 

That's true.  Willie was the reason that FBI guy went after Eli, because he knew what Willie had done.  

 

I don't know, I just can't muster any sympathy for Gillian, she's such an awful character, she was so horrible to Richard when she didn't have to be.  Why isn't she in prison for killing that Jimmy look alike?  Why isn't she in a real jail?  Did she pretend to be crazy and of course, everybody believed her, because she's such a good girl?  I hope she doesn't try to write Tommy and fuck up that poor child's head.  What an awful woman.

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kay1864

kay1864

Loved the elevator scene. I can watch Eli and Van Alden with each other all day long--wasn't expecting to enjoy that so much. I also lol when Van Alden told him that he reeked of urine. I was sure he was going to say booze and then wondered why those ladies and the elevator operator weren't visibly disgusted and uncomfortable taking a ride with a urine soaked passenger.

I'm guessing Mrs Hat With Feathers wore so much perfume that she could smell little else.

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ganesh

ganesh

It was nice to see Nucky forced into stating the fact that he's a bootlegger in front of men like that.

 

It's also kind of stupid because Nucky is going to be legally controlling the distribution of rum in a couple of years and he's going to may them pay through the nose for being dicks to him. 

 

It's not like he was ashamed. "I'm the biggest bootlegger. I make money. A lot of it."

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TV Diva Queen

TV Diva Queen

Since no one mentioned it, I must be wrong.  Wasn't the Treasury agent (who was handed the book by Woodrow ((would that be Woodrow Wilson))., the same guy that Al couldn't remember why he summoned him?

 

I think the Commodore didn't hand the wife the money because he really didn't give a shit if the daughter had a proper burial or not. It was all about power.  Handing the cold hard cash to the poor man ....so he's in your debt. FOREVER. 

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Avaleigh

Avaleigh

TV Diva Queen, I thought it was about the Commodore wanting Ethan Thompson's vote. All I was thinking is why wouldn't he just go after the mother's instead? I agree that he didn't seem to care at all about the actual tragedy.

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Neurochick

Neurochick

(edited)
I think the Commodore didn't hand the wife the money because he really didn't give a shit if the daughter had a proper burial or not. It was all about power.  Handing the cold hard cash to the poor man ....so he's in your debt. FOREVER.

 

 

The Commodore wasn't even going to give anything; it was his assistant who reminded him about Nucky's father, "he votes."  That's when the Commodore coughed up the money.

Edited by Neurochick
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Drogo

Drogo

I thought that caricature might be a little "too" recognizable as far as caricatures go.. turns out it's the exact same Billie we were first introduced to in the S3 premiere, at Nucky's New Years party.

 

1956231381.jpgBillie_kent.jpg

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hammaboo

hammaboo

TV Diva Queen, I thought it was about the Commodore wanting Ethan Thompson's vote. All I was thinking is why wouldn't he just go after the mother's instead? I agree that he didn't seem to care at all about the actual tragedy.

At that time there would have been no voting for women - we just went through the Suffragettes in the first season or two within the show. (Nucky was pimping out Margaret to make speeches to the Votes for Women crowd)  Ethan's vote would have been the only one that mattered. 

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alynch

alynch

Women voted in 1920.  What year are in we in BE years?

 

We're in 1931. The flashbacks take place in 1886.

 

Not sure whey anyone's mentioning Woodrow Wilson. He's been dead for seven years in 1931. They actually mentioned his death early in season 4.

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Avaleigh

Avaleigh

(edited)

Gah, Hammaboo, I was momentarily forgetting that the flashbacks take place sometime in the 1880s, I can't remember the exact year. 

 

ETA

Alynch beat me to 1931.

 

The music was great in this episode. I liked that version of Creole Love Call and I liked hearing the elevator operator whistle Happy Days Are Here Again.

Edited by Avaleigh
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cattykit

cattykit

I liked how they fooled us into thinking Gillian was at a spa.  Then they fooled us into thinking they were going to use the tired old lesbian prison warden trope...and they didn't. 

 

I don't think Tonino was specifically killed because of Billie Kent, but it was just one more nail in his coffin. 

 

I really wish they weren't wrapping this up in eight episodes. 

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txhorns79

txhorns79

The flashbacks take place in 1886.

 

I think they are in 1884, not 1886.

 

I liked how they fooled us into thinking Gillian was at a spa.  Then they fooled us into thinking they were going to use the tired old lesbian prison warden trope...and they didn't.

 

I liked both fake outs with Gillian.  Though I wonder how many times poor Gretchen Mol has gotten the week's script and it says something to the extent of "Gillian and secondary character have a conversation...in the nude." 

 

 

Hey St. Willie, remember when you killed a guy and framed your roommate for it?  And it ended up with your father as a fugitive in Chicago for the murder of a federal agent, destroying the lives of your mother and countless younger siblings?  Yeah, me neither.

 

I thought that was the whole point of the scene, i.e. Willie knew he was talking about himself when talking about how crime destroys everything.

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jordanpond

jordanpond

(edited)

Since no one mentioned it, I must be wrong.  Wasn't the Treasury agent (who was handed the book by Woodrow ((would that be Woodrow Wilson))., the same guy that Al couldn't remember why he summoned him?

 

I

TV Diva Queen, I believe he was the same person.

 

I was wondering if anyone can answer this question for me -- It seemed at last season's end that even though the Feds knew that Eli killed Knox/Tolliver, Narcisse was commanded to provide the black man of his choice to take the rap for the killing. So I didn't understand then, and still don't understand now, why Eli had to flee to Chicago. The Feds were getting a killer that they could convict. So why couldn't Eli just stay in Atlantic City?

Edited by jordanpond
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ChipBach

ChipBach

I miss Rothstein. Did they mention how he died?

He was shot to death in his office after we welshed on a $200K gambling debt.  I believe it was Luciano who was believed to have had him killed.  Apparently his luck went really, really cold and he went into a pretty quick death spiral.  I was looking forward to the show letting us see him get a piece of humble pie before he went down... 

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editorgrrl

editorgrrl

Can someone remind me why Eli had to split town and hide out w/ Al in Chicago?  I can't remember what happened to trigger that event.

 

Eli killed that crooked federal agent in his living room, the one that was reporting to J. Edgar Hoover (after Eli agreed to sell out Nucky and others), hence his removal from AC, and why he's fittingly paired with van Alden/Mueller in Chicago, who himsef fled AC for similar reasons on the other side of the badge.

 

It seemed at last season's end that even though the Feds knew that Eli killed Knox/Tolliver, Narcisse was commanded to provide the black man of his choice to take the rap for the killing. So I didn't understand then, and still don't understand now, why Eli had to flee to Chicago. The Feds were getting a killer that they could convict. So why couldn't Eli just stay in Atlantic City?

 

According to the Entertainment Weekly recap, "Eli has been hiding out in Illinois since 1924, having betrayed his brother Nucky for the 85th time in the series."

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jordanpond

jordanpond

Editorgrrl, thanks for the reply and the link. But I'm still confused, since Nucky appeared to have been the one who brokered the deal to get Eli off the hook for the Knox killing, and who arranged his transport to Chicago.. So, if Eli isn't fleeing Nucky, and Narcisse's scapegoat got him off the hook with the Feds, I still don't understand why he couldn't have stayed in New Jersey.

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