S18.E19: Sister Wives: Talk Back Part 1 (Special Episode)

[Yeah No]

2 hours ago, Teafortwo said:

I think TLC may be testing the waters for more of these look back/pillow talk type shows. They've milked 90 Day Fiance eight ways to Tuesday and back, and even aired multiple Family Chantel seasons. Imo they are looking for a way to milk this show further. They must know that Gwendlyn and Mykelti have done well with their patreon rewatch/commentary. I think there's still enough interest out there for a least a couple more seasons. They were still filming as recently as Avalon's birthday. Ah well, time will tell.

Maybe they're acting like they're wrapping up "Sister Wives" because they intend to come back with a new spin on it and call it something else, like "Sister Wives:  The Aftermath".  Similar to the way "Breaking Amish" turned into "Return to Amish".  I can see that happening.  But I can't see endless interview shows and nothing else either.  It should be interesting to see how they handle it in the future.

[Orcinus orca]

8 hours ago, Teafortwo said:

I think TLC may be testing the waters for more of these look back/pillow talk type shows.

Except there is virtually nothing new to see.  Just endless repeats of "loved them/loved them not", "my wives betrayed me", dry-cry scenes, flashbacks to what we've seen umpteen times already, and happy ex-wives.  I have no desire to see any more of Christine's Sparkle Pony Princess scenes, Janelle is just rolling with it, and Meri is selling crap from her Polyester Palace.  Count me out.

[kimaken]

Islandgal140 said:

I'm kinda mad at Meri because she has me agreeing with Kody. She had an emotional online affair at worst, at best she was highly flirty and was entertaining "possibilities" with a man, but she won't even admit to that.

What gripes me the most about the catfish scandal is that Kody gets a total pass for his part in this. If he had remained a husband to Meri, would she have been online looking for friends, companionship, love? Her only child was away at college and rarely at home and her so-called spiritual hubby couldn't bear to so much as give her the time of day! I recall she said that he'd be in her bed but he wouldn't touch her (not even hold her hand) nor speak to her. What kind of marriage is that?

[Yeah No]

6 minutes ago, kimaken said:

What gripes me the most about the catfish scandal is that Kody gets a total pass for his part in this. If he had remained a husband to Meri, would she have been online looking for friends, companionship, love? Her only child was away at college and rarely at home and her so-called spiritual hubby couldn't bear to so much as give her the time of day! I recall she said that he'd be in her bed but he wouldn't touch her (not even hold her hand) nor speak to her. What kind of marriage is that?

Exactly, I've been saying similar, except I can't believe he didn't have some kind of manipulative hold on her to stay in that sham marriage for appearances' sake with the TV show.  At that point he didn't want the public to know the truth about their relationship.  He was acting like they still had a "spiritual marriage" so he could keep pushing the "polygamy is wonderful" BS.  Also like you say, he wanted a total pass with the public on dumping her by spinning it that they were still together spiritually if not legally.  That was smoke and mirrors to hide the truth so he wouldn't look like a bastard dumping Meri to marry Robyn.  I can't believe, though, that MERI bought that BS from him.  That I still have trouble accepting.  She keeps claiming he never told her how he really felt so she thought she was still in a relationship with him, but with all that's coming out now she would have had to be completely delusional if she didn't know he was dumping her with a capital D.  And I have a hard time believing she'd be THAT delusional.  If I could see it almost 3,000 miles away on a highly edited TV screen there's no way she could have missed it. 

I rather think Meri was forced into pushing that sham "spiritual marriage" on the TV show by Kody and he did it by threatening her somehow if she didn't do it.  Maybe he threatened to cut her off from the TV show or suffer some other consequences she would not have wanted to risk.  I also wonder if he didn't hold the TLC contracts over her head.  They may have had something in them about having to keep to the original "script" of the big happy polygamous marriage and Meri not being married or in any kind of relationship with Kody would have threatened that image, which at that point neither Kody nor TLC were willing to give up.  

So when Meri engaged the catfish I think she did it knowing he had completely released her.  He for sure wouldn't have wanted her to pursue a new relationship so she tried to do it surreptitiously, but then got found out.  Of course rather than admit the truth to the public and look bad, he spun it that she betrayed him.  And she still didn't say anything for fear of some kind of retribution. 

[islandgal140]

10 hours ago, Teafortwo said:

I think TLC may be testing the waters for more of these look back/pillow talk type shows. They've milked 90 Day Fiance eight ways to Tuesday and back, and even aired multiple Family Chantel seasons. Imo they are looking for a way to milk this show further. They must know that Gwendlyn and Mykelti have done well with their patreon rewatch/commentary. I think there's still enough interest out there for a least a couple more seasons. They were still filming as recently as Avalon's birthday. Ah well, time will tell.

Believe it or not, the last time I checked, SWs was beating 90 day ratings wise so this would make sense. In fact, it saw the highest ratings it had since it premiered so expect to see more of these. I definitely think this is in part to the shit show imploding. This is the payoff that many, including me, have been waiting for.

I officially stopped watching the 90 day franchise because of the oversaturation and overload, but yes I can see TLC trying to milk more out of this franchise, but I hope not to the extent that I become sick of it. 

 

[kimaken]

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

So when Meri engaged the catfish I think she did it knowing he had completely released her.  He for sure wouldn't have wanted her to pursue a new relationship so she tried to do it surreptitiously, but then got found out.  Of course rather than admit the truth to the public and look bad, he spun it that she betrayed him.  And she still didn't say anything for fear of some kind of retribution. 

I agree. I also think TLC, while enjoying the ratings boost the catfish scandal brought to the show, probably wouldn't (probably still won't as long as the show continues) allow Meri to say anything else except that she's "the victim". In some respects she is a victim of being catfished, but she wouldn't have been had she not been seeking something better online. I think there are a lot more details to this whole saga that TLC won't let her speak about. Even a recent mention about Robyn knowing about the catfish incident while it was happening was downplayed. I hope once the show is finally over and Meri writes her Tell All book, she'll finally spell it all out--what was really going on with her and Kody, why she sought out someone online, how/why she fell for who she believed that person was (I agree with you that Meri believed Kody released her as she was ready to leave the family and run away with her dream guy), and what parts Robyn and her pal, Kendra, had in the whole debacle.

I also hope she spills the tea on whatever hold Kody had on her to make her stick around and  put up with all his BS after the catfish scandal. I think Christine making the bold move to leave finally woke Meri up to the possibility that she, too, could finally get out from under his oppressive control.

[Kellyee]

Quote

I'm kinda mad at Meri because she has me agreeing with Kody. She had an emotional online affair at worst, at best she was highly flirty and was entertaining "possibilities" with a man, but she won't even admit to that.

What gripes me the most about the catfish scandal is that Kody gets a total pass for his part in this. If he had remained a husband to Meri, would she have been online looking for friends, companionship, love? Her only child was away at college and rarely at home and her so-called spiritual hubby couldn't bear to so much as give her the time of day! I recall she said that he'd be in her bed but he wouldn't touch her (not even hold her hand) nor speak to her. What kind of marriage is that?

Meri got sucked in by a catfish because she was lonely and depressed after her husband and her "friend" manipulated her into accepting a legal divorce so they could get married to each other instead. I agree with you that Meri should be honest about it, but I think she is still in a lot of denial. 

Kody continues to brand Meri with a scarlet letter for her online affair so that he can justify his shitty treatment of her. Because when you consider how Kody treated Meri, it makes you a lot less sympathetic when he whines about loyalty and how he's been supposedly betrayed by members of his family. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RoxiP]

20 hours ago, BAForever said:

Agree RoxiP. Want to add though that I believe some of his daughters also have his number- Aspyn and Gwen for sure, and I think Maddie and Ysabel too. Janelle continues to surprise me with her calm way of dealing with her separation. It's kind of easy to paint Christine with a mean girl mentality because she can be way over the top. Same cannot be said for Janelle. I believe every word she says. 

I also agree with you BAForever.  I think the older girls are over Kody and his mistreatment of them and their mothers.  I think the ones (adult offspring) that still maintain a relationship with Kody and Robyn are using them for their own agendas.  Can't blame them - Kody has been using them for years.

I agree - Christine is over the top - but she's living her best life and personally I believe she is growing up for the first time in her entire adult life.  She is having to take responsibility for her own life and choices but realizing they are hers to claim - something I suspect she hasn't had in years.  Janelle - she's just an ocean of calm.  I think when she finally came to the conclusion that she was done it was a relief to her.  Meri still seems to be grappling with her own life but she was in "captivity" the longest.  Honestly she probably is in the best place since she has two existing business ventures to fall back on.  I wish all of them well.

[margol29]

I'm not sure if this was the right episode, I watched 19 & 20 together, but I lost count of the number of times Robin rolled her eyes when Kody was talking. One time I think they got stuck in the upwards part of the roll! 🤪

[Meow Mix]

One thing I noticed was Kody saying that he and Meri could b friends if she didn't become bitter over the divorce.  I wanted to slap him for that.  He treated her like garbage for years and humiliated her repeatedly on national TV and now he will deign to be her friend as long as she doesn't hold him to account.  Fundies love to use the word bitter to shut down any disagreement or call to accountability.  Kody used it on Ysabel as well when all he could talk about was how he hoped she wouldn't be bitter that he blew off supporting her when she had surgery.  He had no concern for her, just that she wouldn't think badly of him.  

Regarding the catfish, I think Meri is holding onto the fact that when she initially went online, she wasn't on a manhunt.  She probably was just genuinely looking for community.  The problem is that she won't admit that had that been a real guy, she would have been gone.  I wish she would acknowledge that because no one would blame her after the way Kody and Robyn treated her.  And I still want to know how Robyn, Kendra, and the catfisher were connected.  I suspect Robyn is deeper into that whole thing than we know.

[kimaken]

14 hours ago, Meow Mix said:

Regarding the catfish, I think Meri is holding onto the fact that when she initially went online, she wasn't on a manhunt.  She probably was just genuinely looking for community.  The problem is that she won't admit that had that been a real guy, she would have been gone.  I wish she would acknowledge that because no one would blame her after the way Kody and Robyn treated her.  And I still want to know how Robyn, Kendra, and the catfisher were connected.  I suspect Robyn is deeper into that whole thing than we know.

I agree--and I still think that TLC doesn't want her to say anything more than the "I'm the victim" line. I do wonder if she were to now say, "yes, I would have definitely left Kody and the family had Sam been real"--how would Kody react?

Edited December 28, 2023 by kimaken
replace missing letter in the word

[Gramto6]

27 minutes ago, kimaken said:

I agree--and I still think hat TLC doesn't want her to say anything more than the "I'm the victim" line. I do wonder if she were to now say, "yes, I would have definitely left Kody and the family had Sam been real"--how would Kody react?

No doubt TLC didn't/doesn't want Meri to say anything other than "victim". If she had found a real person then, and actually left Kootie, I think his head would have exploded! He had her so much under his thumb it would never have occurred to him she would go so quickly. And that would have set the stampede to leave him going a lot sooner!  End of show much sooner...

Edited December 28, 2023 by Gramto6

[Sandy W]

20 minutes ago, Gramto6 said:

No doubt TLC didn't/doesn't want Meri to say anything other than "victim". If she had found a real person then, and actually left Kootie, I think his head would have exploded! He had her so much under his thumb it would never have occurred to him she would go so quickly. And that would have set the stampede to leave him going a lot sooner!  End of show much sooner...

Meri may have found an ideal person then if she had been more realistic in assessing what was going on with "Sam".  Did she really think a younger, handsome, multi millionaire was madly in love with her and ready to swoop her off to a life of luxury? Come On!!!

What did she think she was bringing to the table? Her intellect? Her status as a trophy wife? Her ability to interact with "Sam's" international business associates? Her wit and charm?

The whole saga read like a cheap bodice- ripper romance novel and Meri's ego was along for the ride.

 

[kimaken]

15 minutes ago, Sandy W said:

Meri may have found an ideal person then if she had been more realistic in assessing what was going on with "Sam".  Did she really think a younger, handsome, multi millionaire was madly in love with her and ready to swoop her off to a life of luxury? Come On!!!

Considering how naive and sheltered polygamous girls are (and Meri was a 19-yr old virgin when she married Kody--I believe he was her first and only boyfriend), plus how lonely and vulnerable Meri was at that time (this was after the real divorce and K&R's legal marriage) I can see how she would overlook logic/believability and focus on a "fantasy dream come true" dream.

[Madding crowd]

Many women fall for these cat fishers and while I can’t understand it, I think it is a combination of being lonely and naive. I think Meri grew up kind of sheltered in the fundie world and it takes a long time to be fully up to date for these women. As for being positive that she would have left if he would have been real- there is no way to know.
It’s kind of like women who get mad saying “If Margot Robbie wanted my husband he would leave me” or guys who think their wives would leave for George Clooney. If our fantasies became reality would be leave our family to pursue them? I think in the end most people wouldn’t and Meri is still in love with Kody to this day. 

[Rabbit Hutch]

Just finished the Clap Back, or the Talk Smack, or the Yackety Yack, eppie and I can't believe that Meri is STILL lying about the catfish even after all of these years.  It's sooo sad.  Who in the heck is she protecting or lying to?

Meri, you had an emotional affair...so be it.  Own your s**t.  Sheesh, how OLD are you! You look like an idiot and a fool and neither look is good on you.  I have no respect for you at all.  

Crikey, these people.  🙄 

[GeorgiaRai]

I don't think we can know what Meri would've done "if he'd been real".  This was a predator whose goal was to trick, manipulate and exploit; who would likely say, suggest, encourage, promise, plot and threaten far beyond what someone would do if they were genuinely seeking a relationship (platonic or otherwise).  

I don't think Meri was a fool or an idiot, just naive & vulnerable. IMO, she has nothing else to answer for. 

[General Days]

On 12/26/2023 at 2:11 PM, islandgal140 said:

I'm kinda mad at Meri because she has me agreeing with Kody. She had an emotional online affair at worst, at best she was highly flirty and was entertaining "possibilities" with a man, but she won't even admit to that. Her stance is that she was just making friends. LOL! This is why if she is indeed writing a book, I doubt I would read it and if I did I wouldn't put too much stock in it. 

I just realized why I could never do a full re-watch. There is no way in hell I could relive the catfish saga. Nope!

Not to talk you into a rewatch — I skip those episodes too, but early on in the catfish revelations, Meri did admit to being in love or thinking she was in love or feeling love for the fake persona. 

She did say "friend," in this episode, and it drove me nuts, but she didn't say "just a friend," so her use of "friend" felt to me to be more of a euphemism.

When she said it, after I pushed down the urge to throw a shoe at my TV, it did feel to me like she knew it wasn't the right word, but that she didn't know what to call it (at least not in any way that wouldn't be more even embarrassing to her). 

Sam wasn't her lover, even her cyber-lover, because Sam didn't exist. I can see how in Meri's eye, that means there was no emotional affair, because her affair partner never existed. Only the person who victimized her exists.

 

On 12/26/2023 at 7:56 PM, Meow Mix said:

It was harder to pick out Meri's sarcasm about the jacket Robyn brought out to her, but rewatching the scene, she was being low key sarcastic.  So I think people missed it.

 

I got the sarcasm the first time I watched it. Meri was giggling and rolling her eyes when she said it (usually her wit is drier). 

I think we've just been watching her (especially, but all of the OG3 to some extent) be fools for so long, that when one of them makes some sort of joke about wanting Kody's love, it's easy to miss that it's a joke. It feels more in character for them to be suckers than comedians.

 

18 hours ago, Meow Mix said:

Regarding the catfish, I think Meri is holding onto the fact that when she initially went online, she wasn't on a manhunt.  She probably was just genuinely looking for community.  The problem is that she won't admit that had that been a real guy, she would have been gone.  I wish she would acknowledge that because no one would blame her after the way Kody and Robyn treated her.  And I still want to know how Robyn, Kendra, and the catfisher were connected.  I suspect Robyn is deeper into that whole thing than we know.

 

I agree. J.O. (the catfish) targeted Meri right on Twitter, (with several personas, because Sam had "friends" who were tweeting at Meri too, and they were all figments of J.O.'s mental disease). 

She hit it off with the Sam persona on Twitter in the public eye and it felt like friendship at first. It just turned fake romantic really quick. It's not like she went on Tinder or Ashley Madison. I see a lot of fannish discussions that frame it as if she went looking, when really she was just the dupe.

 

4 hours ago, Sandy W said:

Meri may have found an ideal person then if she had been more realistic in assessing what was going on with "Sam".  Did she really think a younger, handsome, multi millionaire was madly in love with her and ready to swoop her off to a life of luxury? Come On!!!

What did she think she was bringing to the table? Her intellect? Her status as a trophy wife? Her ability to interact with "Sam's" international business associates? Her wit and charm?

The whole saga read like a cheap bodice- ripper romance novel and Meri's ego was along for the ride.

 

 

I like @Madding crowd's take on this.

 

4 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

Many women fall for these cat fishers and while I can’t understand it, I think it is a combination of being lonely and naive. I think Meri grew up kind of sheltered in the fundie world and it takes a long time to be fully up to date for these women. As for being positive that she would have left if he would have been real- there is no way to know.
It’s kind of like women who get mad saying “If Margot Robbie wanted my husband he would leave me” or guys who think their wives would leave for George Clooney. If our fantasies became reality would be leave our family to pursue them? I think in the end most people wouldn’t and Meri is still in love with Kody to this day. 

 

[Mothra]

I want to talk about Crybrows' wedding dress.  First of all, Kotex picked it out?  They don't know that this is the girly stuff that helps create bonds among sister-wives?

Second, as I recall, did any of the other wives have a wedding-dress shopping spree like Crybrows did?  I can't remember what Janelle wore; I think Merry had a read wedding dress, and Christine wore some home-made ugly thing.

Third, this was Crybrows' second wedding.  This would've been the time to wear a gorgeous cocktail dress or even an evening gown, but really, for a second wedding?

I hate these people with the heat of a burning sun, even old Christine, but I sure do like watching them.

Since I've been gone, Live Chat has disappeared from my screen.  That's the best reading--can anybody point me to it? Tnx.

[General Days]

1 hour ago, Mothra said:

Second, as I recall, did any of the other wives have a wedding-dress shopping spree like Crybrows did?  I can't remember what Janelle wore; I think Merry had a read wedding dress, and Christine wore some home-made ugly thing.

Meri made her wedding dress (which I think looks like a professionally made gown, or at least it photographed well).

Janelle (who had been previously married to Meri's brother Adam) wore a dark blue dress to her reception, and Meri and she coordinated their outfits.

Christine's mother, Annie, made her dress, but Anne was being shunned by the Allred family by then (for divorcing the old man and leaving the cult), including Christine. I don't even think Christine went to her mom's place for fittings. Annie could not attend the sealing, because she had left the faith, and I believe she was not included in the reception. (Annie was also heartbroken that her daughter was marrying into a situation she herself had escaped only a few years prior.)

Quote

Third, this was Crybrows' second wedding.  This would've been the time to wear a gorgeous cocktail dress or even an evening gown, but really, for a second wedding?

Mormon (both mainstream Latter-day Saints, and the Browns' fundy sect, the AUB) wedding ceremonies are different from mainstream Christian ones. Mormons have their union sealed in the temple, in a ceremony that only other baptized, adult Mormons with Temple Recommends can attend.

I don't know the AUB's specific clothing dictates for weddings, but I would imagine they're at least as strict as those of the mainstream LDS church (read the LDS clothing requirements here). Janelle wouldn't have worn that dark dress during her sealing ceremony. She wore it to the small family reception after. 

Janelle would have worn white temple robes for the sealing itself. Kody would have been dressed all in white for all of his sealings, too. The bride and groom also wear green aprons, which I think it supposed to represent the fig leafs Adam and Eve covered themselves with after realizing they had sinned.

I've cued up this video of a mainstream LDS sealing in the Temple to when the bride and groom approach the altar, so you can see what they wear.

 

Meri and Christine's wedding gowns were modest enough that they might have worn their dresses for the sealing itself, as well as the reception after, provided the AUB doesn't make the brides wear Temple robes, and also allows sufficiently modest gowns.

Although Robyn's gown had long sleeves, it did not cover her collar bones, so she couldn't have worn it to her ceremony (at least not without some insert that would cover the offending flesh). 

I honestly think Robyn just got a gown because TLC paid for stuff, since they featured the wedding reception on the show.

Quote

Since I've been gone, Live Chat has disappeared from my screen.  That's the best reading--can anybody point me to it? Tnx.

The Live Chat is still on the first page. It's just quite a bit of the ways down, because it hasn't been open in a couple of weeks (the schedule hasn't been all that clear). For at least one of the One-on-One episodes (formerly Tell Alls), we had our live chat at the beginning of the episode thread. Here's a direct link to the live chat thread. I hope that helps.

[Orcinus orca]

interesting footage of a wedding.  The groom's getup looks like some sort of Indian costume.  What's with that?

[Mothra]

14 hours ago, General Days said:

Meri made her wedding dress (which I think looks like a professionally made gown, or at least it photographed well).

Janelle (who had been previously married to Meri's brother Adam) wore a dark blue dress to her reception, and Meri and she coordinated their outfits.

Christine's mother, Annie, made her dress, but Anne was being shunned by the Allred family by then (for divorcing the old man and leaving the cult), including Christine. I don't even think Christine went to her mom's place for fittings. Annie could not attend the sealing, because she had left the faith, and I believe she was not included in the reception. (Annie was also heartbroken that her daughter was marrying into a situation she herself had escaped only a few years prior.)

Mormon (both mainstream Latter-day Saints, and the Browns' fundy sect, the AUB) wedding ceremonies are different from mainstream Christian ones. Mormons have their union sealed in the temple, in a ceremony that only other baptized, adult Mormons with Temple Recommends can attend.

I don't know the AUB's specific clothing dictates for weddings, but I would imagine they're at least as strict as those of the mainstream LDS church (read the LDS clothing requirements here). Janelle wouldn't have worn that dark dress during her sealing ceremony. She wore it to the small family reception after. 

Janelle would have worn white temple robes for the sealing itself. Kody would have been dressed all in white for all of his sealings, too. The bride and groom also wear green aprons, which I think it supposed to represent the fig leafs Adam and Eve covered themselves with after realizing they had sinned.

I've cued up this video of a mainstream LDS sealing in the Temple to when the bride and groom approach the altar, so you can see what they wear.

 

Meri and Christine's wedding gowns were modest enough that they might have worn their dresses for the sealing itself, as well as the reception after, provided the AUB doesn't make the brides wear Temple robes, and also allows sufficiently modest gowns.

Although Robyn's gown had long sleeves, it did not cover her collar bones, so she couldn't have worn it to her ceremony (at least not without some insert that would cover the offending flesh). 

I honestly think Robyn just got a gown because TLC paid for stuff, since they featured the wedding reception on the show.

The Live Chat is still on the first page. It's just quite a bit of the ways down, because it hasn't been open in a couple of weeks (the schedule hasn't been all that clear). For at least one of the One-on-One episodes (formerly Tell Alls), we had our live chat at the beginning of the episode thread. Here's a direct link to the live chat thread. I hope that helps.

Thank you very much, General, especially for the video of an actual temple wedding.  I think it was a lovely service.  And Kotex did wear his white suit for a couple of his weddings, but not the hat--it looks like a turban?

And I think you're right; the TLC money and promotion made Crybrows' wedding what it was, but it still was wrong for Kotex to have anything to do with choosing the dress.  Somebody said of her famous father (Theodore Roosevelt?) that he was the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral.  I think that's true of Kotex as well.

[Orcinus orca]

10 minutes ago, Mothra said:

Thank you very much, General, especially for the video of an actual temple wedding.

No mention of love in the entire service.  Guess that's not a Mormon thing.

[xwordfanatik]

5 minutes ago, Orcinus orca said:

No mention of love in the entire service.  Guess that's not a Mormon thing.

They sure encourage "be fruitful and multiply," though.  Fundamental religions of any sort wouldn't work for me.  I don't believe in breeding beyond one's ability to parent and afford the kids they produce.  JMO

 

[SongbirdHollow]

Wait, wtf is a PATRIARCHAL GRIP? What a freaking cult. 

[Orcinus orca]

27 minutes ago, SongbirdHollow said:

Wait, wtf is a PATRIARCHAL GRIP? What a freaking cult. 

That whole ceremony was creepy.

[Quickbeam]

First impression….these folks have huge houses. I’m sitting here in a 1200 sq ft house wondering where I went wrong. 

[Mothra]

4 hours ago, Orcinus orca said:

No mention of love in the entire service.  Guess that's not a Mormon thing.

Well, see, Kotex didn't promise to *love* them, so he's in the clear, soul-wise.

[Granny58]

On 12/26/2023 at 7:56 PM, Meow Mix said:

What was with Robyn messing with her hair?  At one point while Kody was talking she was stroking it frantically. 

self soothing behavior.  She's miserable. 

On 12/26/2023 at 11:25 PM, Teafortwo said:

I think TLC may be testing the waters for more of these look back/pillow talk type shows.

Honestly, I'm all in.  These were enjoyable.  

[Granny58]

On 12/27/2023 at 9:04 AM, kimaken said:

What gripes me the most about the catfish scandal is that Kody gets a total pass for his part in this.

I, for one, NEVER gave him a pass for this.  It's 99.99% on him.  

On 12/27/2023 at 9:32 AM, Yeah No said:

she would have had to be completely delusional

I think she actually was.

[Pickleinthemiddle]

I noticed all three of the OG's dresses covered their collarbones.  But not Robyn's.  Maybe the brown dress she wore did.

Also did anyone else notice in the Meri and Christine wedding photos that Kody has his hand in his pocket?  Almost like I'm bored.

[goofygirl]

He was holding the pencil.

[General Days]

On 12/29/2023 at 10:35 AM, Mothra said:

And Kotex did wear his white suit for a couple of his weddings, but not the hat--it looks like a turban?

Don't go by the Browns wedding day photos. I don't think that Kody would be photographed in the hat. And he would have been in all white for all of the sealing ceremonies.

LDS and AUB sealings are more or less secret. That's why basically all the Browns have ever said about their wedding ceremonies is that they are different and sacred to them (as if the rest of us don't hold our own ceremonies sacred -- don't get me started).

That video (of an LDS sealing) is the product of hidden camera footage. The wedding photos we have of all the Brown weddings are not from the sealing. They're from their receptions.

2 hours ago, Pickleinthemiddle said:

I noticed all three of the OG's dresses covered their collarbones.  But not Robyn's.  Maybe the brown dress she wore did.

No, the brown dress didn't cover her collarbones, but that was just her dress for the big family photo, which was taken on the day of the wedding reception. Neither Kody nor Roby would have been allowed to wear brown (or other non-white colors, other than the green apron) during their sealing.

 

She either wore the white gown (if the AUB allows that) WITH an insert to make the neckline conform to AUB standards, or she wore a temple gown.

They — and all of the people who attended the sealing — would have worn their temple garments (the infamous Mormon underwear) under whatever they wore for the sealing, too. I believe the AUB uses an older style garment than mainstream LDS people now wear. 

I'm unconvinced that Robyn and Kody really had their sealing ceremony on the day the production taped the wedding reception episode. Part of me wonders if they were sealed before she moved to Lehi, or at least as soon after as they could be.

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by General Days
added photo

[Meow Mix]

Thanks @General Daysfor all the useful information.  When I was in college, I took a class on sects and cults and I remember learning about sealing being for LDS eyes only.  Even the room where it's done is off limits to anyone else.  BTW, the green apron they wear looks to be borrowed from Masonic tradition.  The Masons wear something like that and from my vague recollection, how you wear the apron denotes your status in Masonic hierarchy.

As part of that class, I actually attended Sunday services at a local Mormon ward.  It was fascinating and confirmed for me that I would make a terrible Mormon.  People could have taken bets on how quickly I could get myself excommunicated.  And I only saw that many pregnant women in one place at my OB/GYN's office.  Anyway, as part of the main service, a family spoke giving their experience of going to the temple as a family to be sealed.  So sealing isn't just for newly married couples, entire families will do it as well.

[General Days]

28 minutes ago, Meow Mix said:

Thanks @General Daysfor all the useful information.  When I was in college, I took a class on sects and cults and I remember learning about sealing being for LDS eyes only.  Even the room where it's done is off limits to anyone else.  BTW, the green apron they wear looks to be borrowed from Masonic tradition.  The Masons wear something like that and from my vague recollection, how you wear the apron denotes your status in Masonic hierarchy.

As part of that class, I actually attended Sunday services at a local Mormon ward.  It was fascinating and confirmed for me that I would make a terrible Mormon.  People could have taken bets on how quickly I could get myself excommunicated.  And I only saw that many pregnant women in one place at my OB/GYN's office.  Anyway, as part of the main service, a family spoke giving their experience of going to the temple as a family to be sealed.  So sealing isn't just for newly married couples, entire families will do it as well.

I took a very similar class, and also attended services, but I cannot for the life of me remember what the talk was that day. (Mormons don't have professional clergy — all baptized men and priesthood holders.)

I believe the sealing of families, like you describe above, only happens when the parents weren't sealed at marriage (so if a couple didn't have a temple wedding for whatever reason, or if they converted to Mormonism after marriage).

One of the reasons, I believe, that Robyn and Kody so wanted Kody to adopt Dayton, Aurora, and Breanna, is so that they could be sealed to him and Robyn. If I recall correctly, Robyn and Preston did not have their union sealed by the AUB. They might have made themselves ineligible, because Robyn was pregnant.

I also think that's one of the reasons why Meri, Christine, and Janelle were so passionate about Kody legally adopting the kids. The adoption would have met the AUB's standards for including the kids in Kody and Robyn's eternal bond (or would have provided the AUB a rationale to seal the whole family after the fact).

[Orcinus orca]

2 minutes ago, General Days said:

I also think that's one of the reasons why Meri, Christine, and Janelle were so passionate about Kody legally adopting the kids. The adoption would have met the AUB's standards for including the kids in Kody and Robyn's eternal bond (or would have provided the AUB a rationale to seal the whole family after the fact).

Gotta populate that planet.  Of course, it's going to be a pretty barren one now IF they even believe any of that anymore.  I doubt it - the whole religious aspect tanked years ago except for Janelle.

[Mothra]

1 hour ago, General Days said:

Don't go by the Browns wedding day photos. I don't think that Kody would be photographed in the hat. And he would have been in all white for all of the sealing ceremonies.

LDS and AUB sealings are more or less secret. That's why basically all the Browns have ever said about their wedding ceremonies is that they are different and sacred to them (as if the rest of us don't hold our own ceremonies sacred -- don't get me started).

That video (of an LDS sealing) is the product of hidden camera footage. The wedding photos we have of all the Brown weddings are not from the sealing. They're from their receptions.

No, the brown dress didn't cover her collarbones, but that was just her dress for the big family photo, which was taken on the day of the wedding reception. Neither Kody nor Roby would have been allowed to wear brown (or other non-white colors, other than the green apron) during their sealing.

 

She either wore the white gown (if the AUB allows that) WITH an insert to make the neckline conform to AUB standards, or she wore a temple gown.

They — and all of the people who attended the sealing — would have worn their temple garments (the infamous Mormon underwear) under whatever they wore for the sealing, too. I believe the AUB uses an older style garment than mainstream LDS people now wear. 

I'm unconvinced that Robyn and Kody really had their sealing ceremony on the day the production taped the wedding reception episode. Part of me wonders if they were sealed before she moved to Lehi, or at least as soon after as they could be.

 

Thank you again for all this fascinating information.  It had never occurred to me that post-Merry weddings would have been official Mormon/FLDS ceremonies--sealings--because they all seemed so casual about observing their religion in other ways (did any of the children go away to serve as missionaries, for example?).  What they presented, to me at least, was "normal" American wedding stuff, with the exception of Kotex being the officiant of some services.  How crafty and deceitful of them!  It would have been a simple matter to announce that cameras were not permitted at the "real" Mormon wedding, and then moved on to the reception, which we apparently *were* invited to. 

If the goal was to demystify polygamy, that's another big fail.  Not not showing the ceremony but in trusting the viewer to accept that there is a sacrosanct part of the religion that outsiders are not welcome to participate in.  I think we are adults enough to understand that someone's true religious beliefs might not be something they want on TV, especially since those beliefs or misinterpretation of those beliefs have led literally to people dying in their defense.

I mean, trying to understand how multiple wives work out in real life was enough for me.  I got enough Mormon mysticism from Big Love.  It's where Harry Dean Stanton showed us how to talk to god via a big black hat.

[Emmeline]

On 12/23/2023 at 6:22 PM, goofygirl said:

I kinda loved that Crybrows just had to keep telling him what to say, and patting his hand.  These two are a match all right!

I believe this is why Robyn was so uncomfortable on these 2 shows.  She could not control what was coming out of his mouth.  Except for the moment she put her hand over his mouth for going after the viewer.  Kody is full of contradictions.  He is just so pathetic and delusional.

[xwordfanatik]

If he ever had the ability to think for himself, Crybrows obliterated it.  Kootie is her puppet, and she runs the show.

[altopower]

2 minutes ago, xwordfanatik said:

If he ever had the ability to think for himself, Crybrows obliterated it.  Kootie is her puppet, and she runs the show.

She sure seems miserable with how that turned out. I would really hate to be holed up in a house with him all the time.

[General Days]

 

19 hours ago, Mothra said:

Thank you again for all this fascinating information.  It had never occurred to me that post-Merry weddings would have been official Mormon/FLDS ceremonies--sealings--because they all seemed so casual about observing their religion in other ways...  

 

The Brown parents have always indicated, on the show, that they had religious sealings at their "church," and that the ceremonies were secret and sacred. They've said on camera that they wouldn't talk more about their weddings. In other words, they've made no secret of it being secret.

The parents are not mainstream LDS (i.e. they are not part of the mainstream church known as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints), and they are not part of the FLDS (the Rulon Jeffs/Warren Jeffs group, whose full name is The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints or FLDS for short).

The Brown parents are (or at least were) members of the AUB (Apostolic United Brethren, aka the Allred Group).

 

20 hours ago, Mothra said:

(did any of the children go away to serve as missionaries, for example?)

 

I don't know if the AUB has missionaries now. They didn't used to.

None of the sects that are outside of the mainstream Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is all that big. I'm not sure they'd even have the ability to establish a mandatory missions program.

Regardless, none of the OG13 Brown kids are part of the AUB, or any other fundamentalist Mormon sect, as far as we know. I think perhaps the one benefit the kids realized from being on the show is that they broke free of Mormon fundamentalism.

Certainly none of Meri, Janelle, and Christine's kids are Mormon fundamentalists. I'm not sure about Robyn's kids (although Mykelti and Gwen have seemed to indicate that none of the kids will be involved in polygamy, and the way this was said, it seemed to include Robyn's older kids).

As I understand it (from Gwendlyn and Mykelti's content) the adult kids are a mix of evangelical Christian, mainstream LDS, and agnostic/atheist, with a little bit of paganism.

 

20 hours ago, Mothra said:

What they presented, to me at least, was "normal" American wedding stuff, with the exception of Kotex being the officiant of some services.  How crafty and deceitful of them!  It would have been a simple matter to announce that cameras were not permitted at the "real" Mormon wedding, and then moved on to the reception, which we apparently *were* invited to. 

 

I was only talking about the Brown parents' weddings (Kody's weddings to Meri, Janelle, Christine, and Robyn).

The adult children's weddings, featured on Sister Wives, were not AUB weddings, or any kind of Mormon wedding.

They were just "normal American" weddings. No one was being deceitful about that. You took my previous post as saying much more than it did.

 

20 hours ago, Mothra said:

If the goal was to demystify polygamy, that's another big fail.  Not not showing the ceremony but in trusting the viewer to accept that there is a sacrosanct part of the religion that outsiders are not welcome to participate in.  I think we are adults enough to understand that someone's true religious beliefs might not be something they want on TV, especially since those beliefs or misinterpretation of those beliefs have led literally to people dying in their defense.

 

I don't know how else to say that they couldn't have shown the parents' spiritual weddings (sealing ceremonies) on TV. They take place in an Endowment House and are secret ceremonies which are only open to adult, baptized, members in good standing. They cannot even talk about the ceremony on TV. The sect won't let them.

I don't think the goal was ever to demystify polygamy though. I think the goal was to make it look less threatening -- to put another face on it other than the one the Warren Jeffs' FLDS put out, of child brides in prairie dresses. 

They wanted it decriminalized and/or legalized. They didn't care if the rest of America understood it. They cared that they be allowed to practice their brand of the faith, which doesn't include the marriage of minors.

[ginger90]

Just wanted to stick this here. This was at least 5 years ago, I remember posting it at the time. Maddie and Mykelti were not allowed to join, but Garrison was.

[mythoughtis]

Maddie and Garrison weren’t trying to join at the same time or in the same church location.  Maddie tried to join in Utah while she was in college, IIRC.  

[Absolom]

Different bishops will make different decisions and the Brown offspring may have been asked different questions and given different answers.

[Roslyn]

On 12/30/2023 at 12:19 PM, Meow Mix said:

Thanks @General Daysfor all the useful information.  When I was in college, I took a class on sects and cults and I remember learning about sealing being for LDS eyes only.  Even the room where it's done is off limits to anyone else.  BTW, the green apron they wear looks to be borrowed from Masonic tradition.  The Masons wear something like that and from my vague recollection, how you wear the apron denotes your status in Masonic hierarchy.

As part of that class, I actually attended Sunday services at a local Mormon ward.  It was fascinating and confirmed for me that I would make a terrible Mormon.  People could have taken bets on how quickly I could get myself excommunicated.  And I only saw that many pregnant women in one place at my OB/GYN's office.  Anyway, as part of the main service, a family spoke giving their experience of going to the temple as a family to be sealed.  So sealing isn't just for newly married couples, entire families will do it as well.

If memory serves, Joseph Smith was a Mason and many of the LDS ceremonies and rituals mirror Masonic traditions.

[Mothra]

9 hours ago, General Days said:

 

 

The Brown parents have always indicated, on the show, that they had religious sealings at their "church," and that the ceremonies were secret and sacred. They've said on camera that they wouldn't talk more about their weddings. In other words, they've made no secret of it being secret.

The parents are not mainstream LDS (i.e. they are not part of the mainstream church known as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints), and they are not part of the FLDS (the Rulon Jeffs/Warren Jeffs group, whose full name is The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints or FLDS for short).

The Brown parents are (or at least were) members of the AUB (Apostolic United Brethren, aka the Allred Group).

 

 

I don't know if the AUB has missionaries now. They didn't used to.

None of the sects that are outside of the mainstream Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is all that big. I'm not sure they'd even have the ability to establish a mandatory missions program.

Regardless, none of the OG13 Brown kids are part of the AUB, or any other fundamentalist Mormon sect, as far as we know. I think perhaps the one benefit the kids realized from being on the show is that they broke free of Mormon fundamentalism.

Certainly none of Meri, Janelle, and Christine's kids are Mormon fundamentalists. I'm not sure about Robyn's kids (although Mykelti and Gwen have seemed to indicate that none of the kids will be involved in polygamy, and the way this was said, it seemed to include Robyn's older kids).

As I understand it (from Gwendlyn and Mykelti's content) the adult kids are a mix of evangelical Christian, mainstream LDS, and agnostic/atheist, with a little bit of paganism.

 

 

I was only talking about the Brown parents' weddings (Kody's weddings to Meri, Janelle, Christine, and Robyn).

The adult children's weddings, featured on Sister Wives, were not AUB weddings, or any kind of Mormon wedding.

They were just "normal American" weddings. No one was being deceitful about that. You took my previous post as saying much more than it did.

 

 

I don't know how else to say that they couldn't have shown the parents' spiritual weddings (sealing ceremonies) on TV. They take place in an Endowment House and are secret ceremonies which are only open to adult, baptized, members in good standing. They cannot even talk about the ceremony on TV. The sect won't let them.

I don't think the goal was ever to demystify polygamy though. I think the goal was to make it look less threatening -- to put another face on it other than the one the Warren Jeffs' FLDS put out, of child brides in prairie dresses. 

They wanted it decriminalized and/or legalized. They didn't care if the rest of America understood it. They cared that they be allowed to practice their brand of the faith, which doesn't include the marriage of minors.

Again, thank you.

I do not recall the Brown parents explaining about their sealings.  I do not have the world's best memory, so I probably forgot, or maybe wasn't watching if it occurred early in the series.  At any rate, you've set me straight, and I feel like I owe Kotex et al. an apology.

Ask me about snake handlers.  That I know about.

[Pickleinthemiddle]

On 12/30/2023 at 10:59 AM, General Days said:

m unconvinced that Robyn and Kody really had their sealing ceremony on the day the production taped the wedding reception episode. Part of me wonders if they were sealed before she moved to Lehi, or at least as soon after as they could be

I've thought the same thing.  They seemed to cozy to be unmarried.  

[Mothra]

Announcement:  I am no longer referring to Kotex as "Kotex."  In my book, he is now and forever Kidney Brown.  Or maybe Knifedkidney Brown.  Nope.  Too long.  Kidney Brown.  Knifed Brown?  No.  Kidney is better.  Kidney Brown.  Rolls off my damn tongue.

Acknowledgments and appreciations to Merry Brown.

Thank you for your kind attention.

Mothra

[Gramto6]

8 hours ago, Mothra said:

Announcement:  I am no longer referring to Kotex as "Kotex."  In my book, he is now and forever Kidney Brown.  Or maybe Knifedkidney Brown.  Nope.  Too long.  Kidney Brown.  Knifed Brown?  No.  Kidney is better.  Kidney Brown.  Rolls off my damn tongue.

Acknowledgments and appreciations to Merry Brown.

Thank you for your kind attention.

Mothra

Kidney Brown is a good name! I've tried out Kotex and it didn't feel right, but I still lean more towards Kootie Brown. I mean really, don't you think there just must be kooties in that hair? Just looking at him makes my skin crawl...could that be kooties too?? I don't think it really matters which we call him. Bozo works for me too, he has the hair!! Frankly I'd like to not call him anything, or even give a thought to him at all.  Worthless excuse for a human....

[Meow Mix]

I like Kodilocks myself.  But some time ago on another discussion, my autocorrect suggested Kidney and I went with it.