S02.E07: Wonders Never Cease

[AntFTW]

19 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

So the deal we're talking about is whatever the fake railroad company was doing, right? And Oscar just for some reason now assumes that it's done? Nothing to do with Oscar himself being an investor? 

Because if the point is that the deal is already done and Oscar just wants to get in first, the guy taking his money has no reason at all to want him to keep quiet about it. 

19 hours ago, Charlemagne said:

It is a natural assumption that after Oscar handed the Big Check over, he signed some papers (which would have undoubtedly been fake.) But, in Oscar's mind, that's it.

His particular deal is done as far as he is concerned. Payment is given, the thing of value is received.

Right, you beat me to it.

I have to say that the "scam" storyline fell flat for me. The most entertaining part is Oscar having to tell Agnes.

I would have been more entertained if it actually was something like a Ponzi scheme and got all of the Old Money people's money into the scheme. I'm doubting, now, that the check received the first time from Crowther was real.

Edited December 12, 2023 by AntFTW

[Conotocarious]

11 minutes ago, Charlemagne said:

It is a natural assumption that after Oscar handed the Big Check over, he signed some papers (which would have undoubtedly been fake.) But, in Oscar's mind, that's it.

His particular deal is done as far as he is concerned. Payment is given, the thing of value is received.

From our perspective, he is a dumbass, yes. Absolutely.

But we are witnessing right now the collapse of NFTs and Crypto. How many otherwise intelligent and competent people were scammed by those? Oscar's situation seems 100% realistic to me.

Me too. I enjoy reading books about financial scams and listening to podcasts and following the legal fallout.  And financial institutions do not do the due diligence you would expect all of the time. You’d be shocked at what is glossed over, missed or completely ignored due to FOMO and trying to follow the crowd. After the fact it’s obvious but somehow everyone is blinded beforehand,usually by the riches beyond their wildest dreams.

The execution may have been clunky but this is not an unbelievable plot point.

[blackwing]

Only one episode left this season, and in true Fellowes fashion, the storylines are all so predictable.

1.  The van Rhijns are destitute thanks to Oscar.

19 hours ago, quarks said:

4. Calling it now, without any advance spoilers: next episode, Marian realizes that she can't marry Cousin Dashiell because she doesn't love him, only to realize in the very next scene or two that she has to marry Cousin Dashiell because otherwise Agnes, Ada, Oscar and the various servants, with the exception of Clock Guy, won't have anywhere to live which is just awful, only to realize that she just can't, only to be saved at the last minute by Ada's inheritance from Rev Dead Poets. (Whoever came up with that name, thank you.) Lingering shots will suggest a future relationship between Marian and Larry.

 

This exactly.  I will add that Aurora is going to offer money (not sure if Aurora's money is her share of the van Rhijn money from her mom/dad, or if it's Fane money).  Agnes refuses to accept.  Especially when Dashiell is also a van Rhijn and has plenty of money (again, not sure if his money is from his van Rhijn mom, his Montgomery dad, or his dead wife).

Many scenes in the episode will be spent preparing for Marian's wedding.  Marian is going to say she can't go through with the wedding so soon because of Uncle Luke's death.  Ada will give a heartfelt speech about how she finally found happiness only to see it taken away, and what if she had met Luke earlier? "Follow your heart, there's no sense in waiting, you will learn to be happy."  Agnes will say they need the money and encourage Marian to marry ASAP, knowing full well that Marian doesn't love Dashiell at all... she barely knows him!  Especially bad coming from Agnes who also had a loveless marriage.

We will see the servants hustling and bustling downstairs.  We will see Aurora tasting some soup as her house prepares for the reception.

Will the Russells be invited?  Probably.  I agree with you that Marian is about to go through with it even though she doesn't want to.  We see a shot of that beaming precocious daughter (I was surprised to learn she is 14, I would have said 10).  Dashiell has recited his vows.  Now it's Marian's turn.  We are mid-vow ("will you take this man to be your lawful wedded husband") when one of the servants bursts in and passes a telegram to Ada.  Ada exclaims.  Lots of whispering.  Marian stops the priest and goes to talk to Ada, and Ada tells her the good news.  She looks up and the first person she sees is Larry with a desperate look in his eyes.  She decides not to go through with it.

2.  Oscar.  Maude Beaton is gone.  I find it hard to believe that he was the only one she was scamming, really, the van Rhijns weren't THAT rich, and it seems convenient that he was a one and done.  I also find it hard to believe that Agnes is blind to the fact about John Adams.  Oscar specifically mentioned "that's what John Adams said".  Agnes knows they are friends but she has to know they are more.  John Adams was standing up and Oscar was sobbing on his crotch.  Oscar will resume his relationship with John.

3.  The Opera War.  At this point, who cares?  It's gotten so boring.  Of course the Met will open, of course the Duke will be there.

4.  Peggy stories.  Marian accepts a position to teach at Mrs. Garnet's school.  This was anvilled by "if only we could get white people who aren't Irish".  Peggy will embark on a full blown affair with TT Fortune.

5.  Jack and his clock.  Armstrong will destroy the clock out of jealousy, or give the design to someone else.  But luckily, Bannister had told Jack to submit his drawings to the friend already.

6.  Watson/Collyer.  Who cares?  I frankly want him to accept his daughter's offer to get put up in an apartment as her retired father.  Then he can be off the show.  But it's Fellowes, so he's going to turn her offer down.  He's going to say something about wanting to work for an honest living, and this is him now, and if she can't accept that, then goodbye.  Angst, whatever.

16 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

Marian’s demeanor totally changes once she sees Larry. Dashiell who? Larry is so gentle and comforting with her. 💕

 

Larry and Jack have somehow become my favourite characters on this show.

[BeatrixK]

3 hours ago, Tango64 said:

I want more Mrs. Fish.

I will love it if Mrs. Fish and her thirst for gossip finds out who and where 'maude' is....because you just know if anyone is gonna fine it out, She and Aurora Fayne could use their social networks to CSI:  Gilded Age the sh*t out of it! (And Aurora is the ultimate BFF, so yeah - she will Badger and Skinny Pete this if she can find out who screwed Oscar.)

I love Larry and Marion and I don't care who knows it!

I think Bald Valet guy will end up working for George - George already knows he can trust him so....can't just have him out there, hanging out in his apartment, being retired and stuff.  But I can totally see George hiring him because he knows he can trust him.

So the Van Rhyns will either get an unexpected Ada inheritance or Marion will have to fast track Daschell....but you can't have Agnes and Ada go broke...and you most certainly will NOT have Christine Baranski playing poor!  But one way or the other, there will have to be a financial save.

I am so invested in Jack's Clock Saga and I have no earthly idea why - but i love the ingenuity and his hopefulness.

And I am so loving the Mrs. Brook/Bourdin flirtation - she's never been hit on in her entire life and I love her confusion and then her 'Oh....tee hee.'

I am going to have such sadness after next week!!!

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by BeatrixK

[ChlcGal]

11 minutes ago, blackwing said:

4.  Peggy stories.  Marian accepts a position to teach at Mrs. Garnet's school.  This was anvilled by "if only we could get white people who aren't Irish".  Peggy will embark on a full blown affair with TT Fortune.

I sincerely hope they don't go this route because Peggy will end up duking it out with Armstrong, Weird Frances and Clay as my Most Disliked Character on this show.

Affairs are my absolutely most hated storylines.

I'm kind of shocked how few characters I dislike on this show.

ETA: @BeatrixK Mrs Fish is SOOOOOOOO the shit.  Her delight at the drama last night killed me!

Edited December 11, 2023 by ChlcGal

[kay1864]

20 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

It was hard to focus on anything in that Bridge meeting besides Bertha's hat. That was a super aggressive hat. 

I think it inspired the Sydney Opera house! 😆

[Fake Jan Brady]

37 minutes ago, BeatrixK said:

And I am so loving the Mrs. Brook/Bourdin flirtation - she's never been hit on in her entire life and I love her confusion and then her 'Oh....tee hee.'

She is Mrs Bruce, so somebody must have hit on her at least once.

Could Cousin Dashell conveniently rethink his proposal when he realises he'll have to support Aunts Agnes and Ada as well...and they're not even related by blood [or is that just Marion?]

[Salacious Kitty]

4 minutes ago, Fake Jan Brady said:

She is Mrs Bruce, so somebody must have hit on her at least once.

Could Cousin Dashell conveniently rethink his proposal when he realises he'll have to support Aunts Agnes and Ada as well...and they're not even related by blood [or is that just Marion?]

Servants were referred to as Mrs. regardless of their actual marital status. And interestingly, the ladies maids were just referred to by last name (Turner, Armstrong). 

[sistermagpie]

3 hours ago, Charlemagne said:

It is a natural assumption that after Oscar handed the Big Check over, he signed some papers (which would have undoubtedly been fake.) But, in Oscar's mind, that's it.

His particular deal is done as far as he is concerned. Payment is given, the thing of value is received.

I think I'm getting it now. The only thing I had (and still have, but whatever) is the original point that I don't get why Oscar would think that some other deal has taken place before he knows about it if that was the thing he was keeping quiet.

But if all he's keeping quiet is the "great investment opportunity" that he got before Russell, sure it makes sense he'd tell him now.

Just to be clear, my issue isn't that I think anybody would be too smart to fall for a con. People do it all the time, even those you wouldn't think would, and even with other people jumping up and down telling them it's a scam. I just think a better writer who actually cared about this stuff would have written it better so it wouldn't seem like Oscar is saying hello to Russell this morning just so he can find out he's been scammed. His having been turned down by Russell for Gladys just doesn't seem like enough of a motivation for him since he doesn't seem all that humliiated to me, or that sensitive about it.

1 hour ago, Fake Jan Brady said:

She is Mrs Bruce, so somebody must have hit on her at least once.

Nah, that just means she's the housekeeper or the cook, I think.

[JenE4]

In a twist everyone saw coming, Maud Beaton scammed Oscar out of nearly all the Van Rhijn’s fortune.

And, oh well, Reverend Luke’s dead.

But, fear not, Jack is just getting started on his goddamned clock maker journey!

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by JenE4

[peeayebee]

4 hours ago, Charlemagne said:

It was implied - much like it's implied that people go to the bathroom on this show but we never actually see it.

Get me my smelling salts!

(But, yes, there are so many examples of things happening in shows/movies that we don't see because we don't need to see.)

I felt rather distraught seeing that Oscar had indeed been scammed. In previous eps I had strongly suspected that was happening, but I was literally crying out, "Oh no!" as I watched. 

Although I hated it happening, I completely buy that Oscar was taken in. If it had been a man telling him about this business opportunity, he wouldn't have fallen for it so easily, if at all... that is, if it wasn't a man he was interested in. But he WAS interested in Maud. He was looking for a woman to court and then wed. She charmed him. She did not seem devious or worldly. He fell for her. After that, he wanted to show her that he trusted her and she could trust him. 

 

3 hours ago, chaifan said:

As I said above, there are some plot holes, but this is the basic gist of where Oscar was at - if he were a cartoon character he'd be jumping around screaming "I'm rich! I'm rich!". 

 

 

I gasped when Forte fell. I hate that he was killed off so quickly.

Edited December 12, 2023 by peeayebee

[Pop Tart]

6 hours ago, AntFTW said:

It's funny that Ada said they should ask Mrs. Fish's husband because his grandmother was a Stuyvesant, and no one took her up on that.

I re-watched the ep where Aurora introduces Maud to Oscar and talks about her to Oscar and then the rest of the family. It’s clear she’s basing everything on Maud’s appearing to have money and what she’s heard about her. One of the things she’s heard about Maud is that she’s maybe the illegitimate daughter of Jay Gould. And when Maud talks to Oscar for the first time she says she’s been living in Paris, which is why no one knows her and that she’s spent time with Mrs. Fish.

So young woman moves to NY with companion and starts spreading word about her own background by getting in with Mrs Fish, who’s a major gossip who collects interesting people. She flaunts money so she appears wealthy and lets everyone think that all that wealth comes from her robber-barron father Jay Gould. But you can’t ask her about Jay Gould because she’s illegitimate.

It’s a perfect setup and I’ll give JF credit for laying the clues from early in the season.

As to Oscar, I think others have covered how he was drawn in by the classic grift. But I’ll add that I think he was even more vulnerable than usual because George shut him down so hard as regards Gladys. I think there was some part of him that wanted to prove he could play with the big boys.

[blackwing]

6 hours ago, AntFTW said:

It's funny that Ada said they should ask Mrs. Fish's husband because his grandmother was a Stuyvesant, and no one took her up on that.

I could have sworn that Aurora or somebody had said they would ask someone and confirm the Stuyvesant connection.  I guess nobody did.

2 hours ago, Fake Jan Brady said:

Could Cousin Dashell conveniently rethink his proposal when he realises he'll have to support Aunts Agnes and Ada as well...and they're not even related by blood [or is that just Marion?]

Dashiell is a van Rhijn, I would assume his mother was the sister of Agnes' husband.  Agnes is his aunt by marriage, so he's not related by blood to Ada or Marian.  Which is why he said at one point that he and Marian aren't really cousins.

In the scenario where we are assuming that Marian will feel obligated to marry Dashiell so that she can save the family financially... I think that omits the fact that Dashiell is already a van Rhijn.  So regardless of whether he marries Marian or not, shouldn't he feel some familial obligation to support and help Aunt Agnes?   Ada and Marian would just be the side beneficiaries since they live with Agnes.

[Brn2bwild]

They couldn't have given Ada and Luke even half a season of marriage before introducing the terminal illness?  It's almost comical how quickly Luke went from "Gee, a little back pain" to "Now he's dead."  The courtship lasted longer than the marriage.

[Affogato]

17 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

They couldn't have given Ada and Luke even half a season of marriage before introducing the terminal illness?  It's almost comical how quickly Luke went from "Gee, a little back pain" to "Now he's dead."  The courtship lasted longer than the marriage.

Yeah. That pisses me off. 

[RachelKM]

27 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

They couldn't have given Ada and Luke even half a season of marriage before introducing the terminal illness?  It's almost comical how quickly Luke went from "Gee, a little back pain" to "Now he's dead."  The courtship lasted longer than the marriage.

It's even more absurd when you realize that this whole season has taken place over 2 months. E1 was Easter Sunday.  Easter 1883 was early-ish, but still March 25.  The Brooklyn Bridge dedication/opening was May 24, 1883. I've kept plants alive longer than that.* 

 

*Note to reader, I have committed to only ever raising succulents in order to end my reign of terror on innocent and unsuspecting plant life. 

Edited December 12, 2023 by RachelKM

[BeatrixK]

3 hours ago, Fake Jan Brady said:

She is Mrs Bruce, so somebody must have hit on her at least once.

Could Cousin Dashell conveniently rethink his proposal when he realises he'll have to support Aunts Agnes and Ada as well...and they're not even related by blood [or is that just Marion?]

Ohhhhh......I like that idea!

AND...it leaves Marion with a reputation-saving out.  Although I don't think Bertha would have time to give two hoots about whoever Larry wants if she is too busy trying to reign the Duke back in for Gladys.

[AntFTW]

16 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

As to Oscar, I think others have covered how he was drawn in by the classic grift. But I’ll add that I think he was even more vulnerable than usual because George shut him down so hard as regards Gladys. I think there was some part of him that wanted to prove he could play with the big boys.

In addition to that, I think he saw Maud Beaton as possibly his last shot at getting what he wanted. Even though Oscar is always around other wealthy women, there aren't many young ladies that are as wealthy as a daughter of Jay Gould or George Russell. Maud Beaton represented that second opportunity that he fumbled with Gladys, an uber-wealthy woman with a blank slate. Maud Beaton was relatively new, and unaware of Oscar's reputation. It gave Oscar that second chance to fill in the blanks as he would have with Gladys.

Edited December 12, 2023 by AntFTW

[weaver]

10 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Servants were referred to as Mrs. regardless of their actual marital status. And interestingly, the ladies maids were just referred to by last name (Turner, Armstrong). 

I remember learning this from the original and far superior Upstairs, Downstairs.  Mrs. Bridges was the cook and what an endearing character she was.   She had never been married.  That was a series in which one could get invested in all of the characters, both upstairs and downstairs.  

[Roseanna]

12 hours ago, blackwing said:

I will add that Aurora is going to offer money (not sure if Aurora's money is her share of the van Rhijn money from her mom/dad, or if it's Fane money). 

Aurora's husband lost much money in S1 when the old money mean ried to beat George.  

[Roseanna]

13 hours ago, Charlemagne said:

From our perspective, he is a dumbass, yes. Absolutely.

But we are witnessing right now the collapse of NFTs and Crypto. How many otherwise intelligent and competent people were scammed by those? Oscar's situation seems 100% realistic to me.

You are right. Intelligent and competent people can be fooled if they (1) overestimate their abilities, (b) are greedy and (c) forgot the maxims "if it looks too good to be true..." and "never put all eggs in one basket". 

[BeatrixK]

Too bad Turner didn't answer the door, since Maude just happened to use Oscar's former partner in crime as her 'residence.'

Wasn't Maude the one who asked Oscar how he knew Turner/Mrs. Winterton at the Duke Dinner?  Did Maude know whose address she was using as hers?

Would Turner be an unseen partner in this and give them Oscar as a mark?  Seems too coincidental for Oscar's scam lady to just happen to use Turner's house as her 'front'?

Would Turner have gone 'long game' and try to get the Van Rijhn money because it WAS Agnes who got her fired.   A long game to make a little cash and get revenge in the process?

 

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by BeatrixK

[caburrito]

I really wish we didn't already know John's last name is Trotter because then the last shot of the season finale could be a dramatic closeup of John signing the patent application as

John Timex

That's just about the only way a season-long story arc about a guy inventing an oilless escapement could be justified.

Now please don't anyone go to wikipedia and tell us that Timex was founded in 1854 and ruin the joke.

[Baltimore Betty]

10 hours ago, RachelKM said:

*Note to reader, I have committed to only ever raising succulents in order to end my reign of terror on innocent and unsuspecting plant life. 

I have kept a primrose going for two years and have no idea how, it has made a liar out of me so I feel you, I totally feel you.

11 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

They couldn't have given Ada and Luke even half a season of marriage before introducing the terminal illness?  It's almost comical how quickly Luke went from "Gee, a little back pain" to "Now he's dead."  The courtship lasted longer than the marriage.

Sadly I have known of a couple of people that felt unwell, went to the doctor and found out whatever it was was at stage 4+ and within a month or so it was done.  I got the impression that Luke had been complaining of a bad back for a long time and the doctor did not know what he was dealing with and it all just caught up with him. His doctor called in another doctor who diagnosed him when it was too late. 

I do think Luke had a lot of money from his family but chose to live a simpler life as clergy and not fall back on that money, just do good work and live within the means the church allowed him.  

Marian can claim that she is in a period of mourning and could not even think of planning wedding when Aunt Ada was grieving, it would be a good "out," of her engagement.  Larry asking Marion to take a walk might signify the start of some real feelings between them. 

I would have thought the Opening of the Brooklyn Bridge would have been a ribbon cutting and everyone walking across the bridge, but they just had fireworks?

Oscar might have to get a job! Oh the horror, the horror!

I am glad that Watson and his daughter finally met up and she wants him in her life.

I wish they would put a little eye make up on Gladys Russell, that girl is terribly plain, I know it was the era of no make up but still. Poor thing.

 

 

 

 

[chaifan]

2 hours ago, BeatrixK said:

Would Turner have gone 'long game' and try to get the Van Rijhn money because it WAS Agnes who got her fired.   A long game to make a little cash and get revenge in the process?

I love this concept, but I'm going to say "no", simply because I don't think Fellowes has that multiple layer chess ability in him.  Honestly, it hadn't even registered with me that it was the Winterton's home that Oscar had knocked at.  I probably wasn't paying close attention. 

I'm still hoping Mrs. Fish and her social network come to the rescue and track down Maude.  Though I suppose that will have to wait until next season.  Really, it's just a way to get more Mrs. Fish on screen.  She's a hoot!

21 minutes ago, caburrito said:

Now please don't anyone go to wikipedia and tell us that Timex was founded in 1854 and ruin the joke.

Oh, we all covered that a few threads ago.  😆

One reason I think the marriage to Dashiel will not happen...  this show moves far too slowly to have a child actor involved.  Someone said above the daughter is supposed to be 10, but already looks older than that.  With the show covering 2 months every season, pretty soon that actor is going to be 18 playing an 10 and 1/2 year old.  For that reason alone, I see an early exit for Dashiel and family.

 

[HappyHanna]

3 hours ago, BeatrixK said:

Too bad Turner didn't answer the door, since Maude just happened to use Oscar's former partner in crime as her 'residence.'

Wasn't that the Whitmore residence, not Winterton?

[blackwing]

50 minutes ago, chaifan said:

I love this concept, but I'm going to say "no", simply because I don't think Fellowes has that multiple layer chess ability in him.  Honestly, it hadn't even registered with me that it was the Winterton's home that Oscar had knocked at.  I probably wasn't paying close attention. 

 

One reason I think the marriage to Dashiel will not happen...  this show moves far too slowly to have a child actor involved.  Someone said above the daughter is supposed to be 10, but already looks older than that.  With the show covering 2 months every season, pretty soon that actor is going to be 18 playing an 10 and 1/2 year old.  For that reason alone, I see an early exit for Dashiel and family.

 

I didn't know that was the Winterton home either.  I cannot recall, did we ever see a scene of her opening the door?  If so, how did she get in?  Didn't Oscar pick her up from there?  Was she already standing outside?

That was me that referenced the girl being 10.  On the show they said she was 14, but I said she looks 10.  Or at least she acts 10.  She certainly doesn't act like a 14 year old to me.

1 hour ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Oscar might have to get a job! Oh the horror, the horror!

He already has a job, he is a banker.  Not sure where he works since I don't think we've ever seen him working.  I still don't understand how he was able to access all of his mother's money, I would have thought in the past that she would have laid down strict rules about how much of her money he can invest or access.

 

[TV Diva Queen]

15 hours ago, BeatrixK said:

I love Larry and Marion and I don't care who knows it!

 

 

this made me laugh out loud soooooo hard!  Slow clap my friend...slow clap

[Marley]

Pretty sure that wasn’t the Winterton’s house.

These ppl really do party all night lol they are always coming home when it’s light out and mid morning. 

[Pop Tart]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

I'm still hoping Mrs. Fish and her social network come to the rescue and track down Maude.  Though I suppose that will have to wait until next season.  Really, it's just a way to get more Mrs. Fish on screen.  She's a hoot!

A great idea for a spin-off - Mrs. Fish Investigates.

[taanja]

18 hours ago, Charlemagne said:

The difference is that the deal is done (or so he thinks.)

It's the difference between knowing a hot stock tip before you secure your position and keeping that tip secret so no one else invests and then telling people that you invested after the fact.

The thing that changed was this: at one point he wasn't an investor... and then at another point he thought that he was an investor.

A big enough investor that he saw himself as approaching the same level as George Russell (or on the way to it.) This was about Oscar's pride as much as his greed.

And, yes, all those things that you mentioned are, indeed, red flags. Con artists deliberately look for people who ignore red flags - for whatever reason. Cons don't work on everyone. They just need to work on someone.

Thank you.

You have actually stated quite succinctly 'the con" That is exactly what happened and Oscar was the perfect "mark"

They have said Oscar works at the bank --but not ONCE has he been shown to work in any way shape or form. (They show other people working -- George Russell for one) they even showed dead preacher preaching that one time.

Like you said -- he is a "gentleman banker" - Meaning he does nothing . All the grunts do the work. He just has the title.

Maude herself was just a figure of rumor and innuendo.

 

[Roseanna]

4 hours ago, BeatrixK said:

Would Turner have gone 'long game' and try to get the Van Rijhn money because it WAS Agnes who got her fired.   A long game to make a little cash and get revenge in the process?

Agnes didn't get Turner fired. Turner didn't even know of Agnes's letter to Bertha - which Bertha ignored because Agnes didn't tell what man she spoke (although Bertha guessed right: Oscar, but she didn't care of it). 

Turner got fired because Bertha saw her touch Larry's arm. And Bertha guessed quite right: it was just the same first move which Turner began George's seduction with. 

Generally, on the basis what we have seen of Turner, she hasn't brains nor nerves to play "the long game". 

[Roseanna]

2 minutes ago, taanja said:

They have said Oscar works at the bank --but not ONCE has he been shown to work in any way shape or form. (They show other people working -- George Russell for one) they even showed dead preacher preaching that one time.

Like you said -- he is a "gentleman banker" - Meaning he does nothing . All the grunts do the work. He just has the title.

We don't know what Oscar does at the bank if anything (if gentleman worked at that time, they did only a few hours per day). But we had been shown that the bank is a good place to get useful information: it was at the bank Oscar learned news that George was losing his fortune and stopped courting Gladys.

[Affogato]

11 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

We don't know what Oscar does at the bank if anything (if gentleman worked at that time, they did only a few hours per day). But we had been shown that the bank is a good place to get useful information: it was at the bank Oscar learned news that George was losing his fortune and stopped courting Gladys.

He is a person of good breeding who other people of good breeding will talk to about their finances. New money will be honored by his invitation into society. He will do some small moves and others will do the heavy lifting. 

Edited December 12, 2023 by Affogato

[Jodithgrace]

For all we know, he’s a teller. 

[taanja]

17 hours ago, kay1864 said:

I think it inspired the Sydney Opera house! 😆

Right!

I re-watched that scene just to see THAT hat!

[Affogato]

There was a gilded age woman financier!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hetty_Green

i coulded find much on gilded age tellers

[iMonrey]

20 hours ago, Charlemagne said:

That was part of the con. The fictional railroad was in competition with Russell's. Going to him to ask about the investment would be like warning him, in a way, of a competing move that meant money for Oscar and less money for Russell (theoretically.)

Emphasis mine. This is the main problem with this plot. This was a fictional company. Even the night watchman at the office building had never heard of this company. It would be one thing if Maud and her co-conspirator were pretending to be shareholders in a real company that Oscar and everyone else knew about, and one that Oscar could verify was indeed in competition to acquire this railroad. But it wasn't. It was just something they made up that nobody had ever heard of before.

And that is what makes this story so unbelievable, and makes Oscar look like a complete idiot.

[Tango64]

That wasn't the Winterton's house where Oscar was looking for Maude, right? A butler we've never seen answered and then a man we've never seen, who said only he and his wife lived there.

 

[AntFTW]

6 hours ago, BeatrixK said:

Would Turner have gone 'long game' and try to get the Van Rijhn money because it WAS Agnes who got her fired.   A long game to make a little cash and get revenge in the process?

I don't think so.

Maud Beaton and Crowther really played a long game here. They had to actually spend money to scam Oscar, and hope that the money received in the end was worth the expense. Maud had to play and look the part, wear expensive clothes, and do expensive things.

I was wondering why they took the furniture. The scammers could have literally just fled and left the office furniture. I guess they'll use it on the next scam without having to shell out for furniture. 😂

[RachelKM]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

It was just something they made up that nobody had ever heard of before.

And that is what makes this story so unbelievable, and makes Oscar look like a complete idiot.

This is the part that bugged me the most. It is and was not possible to to create a company and make a big play without anyone hearing about it. And being new would make it more noteworthy. 

Doing business under a LLC or Corp obscures the individuals but not the business entity.

And merely asking about the name of a company and what a co-worker thought of it would not tip a hand.  All you have to say is that a friend had recently invested in it and you were worried about them... you know, the thing Oscar claimed to be doing before he showed up at the meeting and invested himself? 

I know people have referred to him as a gentleman banker, and I'm sure he was. But even getting the job through connections and nepotism, he'd have to blind and stupid not to know how to ask simple verification questions. 

I get that we are supposed to see Oscar as the classic dupe, greedy, overconfident and so deep in his own con that he couldn't see he was being conned. And, sure, as to Maude. But he planned to marry Maude if he could and so her money might become his money. And he saw her as someone who could be manipulated. I would expect him to look into the company to make sure she wasn't duped out of his her money by anyone other than him.

3 hours ago, Tango64 said:

That wasn't the Winterton's house where Oscar was looking for Maude, right? A butler we've never seen answered and then a man we've never seen, who said only he and his wife lived there.

 

Okay, cool. I was so confused by that exchange.  The name given was unfairly similar. But that wasn't Mr. Winteron

3 hours ago, AntFTW said:

I was wondering why they took the furniture. The scammers could have literally just fled and left the office furniture. I guess they'll use it on the next scam without having to shell out for furniture. 😂

I assume it was rented.  It's not easy to clear a place out with huge pieces of heavy furniture. Although, now that I think about it, I doubt very much that this show bothered to think about that and just went with what would be the most dramatic show, i.e. a totally empty office.

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by RachelKM

[janeyjay]

3 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

A great idea for a spin-off - Mrs. Fish Investigates.

I would watch this the moment it dropped. Many amateur investigators are pretty much nosy busybodies and Mrs. Fish is the gold standard of nosy busybody.

[Baltimore Betty]

3 hours ago, Jodithgrace said:

For all we know, he’s a teller. 

Hah! Sadly he couldn't tell when someone was fleecing him! LOL.

[Baltimore Betty]

George Russell is victorious in his staving off the strike at his mines, has a plan for later on down the road, his plan is to have everyone hate the Irish and the Jews...sigh. He seemed so proud of this plan.  

All the women of note meet for a charity meeting of some kind and I noticed that all the women sit facing all different directions, like the host (Mrs. Fane?) couldn't move the furniture so everyone could face each other?

Oscar should get a PI to track down anyone else who has been taken by Maud and her cohort and launch a search for the pair and either have them arrested or get their money back, something for redemption for his financial loss.

 

 

 

[JenE4]

5 hours ago, blackwing said:

I didn't know that was the Winterton home either.  I cannot recall, did we ever see a scene of her opening the door?  If so, how did she get in?  Didn't Oscar pick her up from there?  Was she already standing outside?

That was me that referenced the girl being 10.  On the show they said she was 14, but I said she looks 10.  Or at least she acts 10.  She certainly doesn't act like a 14 year old to me.

He already has a job, he is a banker.  Not sure where he works since I don't think we've ever seen him working.  I still don't understand how he was able to access all of his mother's money, I would have thought in the past that she would have laid down strict rules about how much of her money he can invest or access.

 

Yes. The one time Oscar picked Maud up from “her home,” she was already waiting outside, which came as a great shock to him that she was just standing on the sidewalk. They had a whole conversation about her wanting to enjoy the weather. So the show really dragged this scene out to make a point that he never saw her inside this home.

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Emphasis mine. This is the main problem with this plot. This was a fictional company. Even the night watchman at the office building had never heard of this company. It would be one thing if Maud and her co-conspirator were pretending to be shareholders in a real company that Oscar and everyone else knew about, and one that Oscar could verify was indeed in competition to acquire this railroad. But it wasn't. It was just something they made up that nobody had ever heard of before.

And that is what makes this story so unbelievable, and makes Oscar look like a complete idiot.

I might be mistaken, but I thought the point of his investment was to get in on the ground floor of a brand-new railroad company that was being founded by some high rollers, including (but not limited to) Jay Gould. So to me it made sense that there was no way to do research on it, especially since Crowley was very secretive on whom all the other investors were. (Oscar brought up Jay Gould’s name and Crowley never confirmed nor denied.) But I admit I might be wrong because after hearing that George’s railroad won the bid, maybe it was supposed to be an established railroad company and they were only raising money for the bid, not to establish the company altogether. But it really made it seem like he was investing in the company itself not just funding one bid.

[AntFTW]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Emphasis mine. This is the main problem with this plot. This was a fictional company. Even the night watchman at the office building had never heard of this company. It would be one thing if Maud and her co-conspirator were pretending to be shareholders in a real company that Oscar and everyone else knew about, and one that Oscar could verify was indeed in competition to acquire this railroad. But it wasn't. It was just something they made up that nobody had ever heard of before.

And that is what makes this story so unbelievable, and makes Oscar look like a complete idiot.

My understanding is that they tied in a little truth in their scam. The acquisition target is real. I think we learned from George, when he talks to Oscar, that the railroad company that they were supposedly acquiring is real. George put in a real bid for a real company. What wasn't real was company doing the acquisition; the company buying the railroad; the company in which all investors "pooled their money" is fake.

That layer is believable. It's common that special-purpose or single-purpose entities are created solely for completing one transaction, like an acquisition. It give some anonymity for investors. In my experience, it's normal that you limit the amount details you share about a deal until the deal is closed. If its a public company, the news of a bid to acquire a public company can't be hidden (not sure if that applied in the 1880s).

Oscar is a banker, but we don't know what kind of banker he is. He's clearly not a banker that deals in acquisitions.

The part that's unbelievable for me - maybe it's my ignorance because I have no idea how they managed office buildings in the 1880s- is that they were able to set up shop in an office space and building watchman has no knowledge of anyone being there. They had pay someone some rent money to be there.

These people are shelling out funds to keep the charade going, and it's not cheap... and the only target is Oscar? That just doesn't sit well with me.

Edited December 12, 2023 by AntFTW

[Carolina Girl]

On 12/11/2023 at 7:40 AM, Marley said:

The dramatic scene with Oscar admitting to losing most of the family money made me laugh because again you could see it coming from a mile away so I was not shocked at all.

Why does this little voice tell me that somehow next season Larry will tell George about the con job and GEORGE finds a way to get Agnes' fortune back for her, (probably via Pinkerton) which will now make her indebted to Bertha......plotline for Season 3.  

[BeatrixK]

4 hours ago, Affogato said:

There was a gilded age woman financier!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hetty_Green

i coulded find much on gilded age tellers

Hetty Green is fascinating.

Girl would make the Couponers look like Moira and Alexis Rose on Rodeo Drive.

[BeatrixK]

54 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

My understanding is that they tied in a little truth in their scam. The acquisition target is real. I think we learned from George, when he talks to Oscar, that the railroad company that they were supposedly acquiring is real. George put in a real bid for a real company. What wasn't real was company doing the acquisition; the company buying the railroad; the company in which all investors "pooled their money" is fake.

That layer is believable. It's common that special-purpose or single-purpose entities are created solely for completing one transaction, like an acquisition. It give some anonymity for investors. In my experience, it's normal that you limit the amount details you share about a deal until the deal is closed. If its a public company, the news of a bid to acquire a public company can't be hidden (not sure if that applied in the 1880s).

Oscar is a banker, but we don't know what kind of banker he is. He's clearly not a banker that deals in acquisitions.

The part that's unbelievable for me - maybe it's my ignorance because I have no idea how they managed office buildings in the 1880s- is that they were able to set up shop in an office space and building watchman has no knowledge of anyone being there. They had pay someone some rent money to be there.

These people are shelling out funds to keep the charade going, and it's not cheap... and the only target is Oscar? That just doesn't sit well with me.

This bugged me, too. 

My first assumptiion is that they of course have a security person in on it. 

Oscar went with her during the day during normal business hours - I know they did something similar in American Hustle, but they also explained HOW they did it.  This was all Here one day, gone now with Oscar's Money - PEACE OUT!

It was just....weird that there wasn't even a half assed 'Oh, that company closed Friday'...just 'This office has been empty'  

?????

Edited December 12, 2023 by BeatrixK

[caburrito]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

And that is what makes this story so unbelievable, and makes Oscar look like a complete idiot.

But but but... Mr. Crowther showed him a booklet!

I think I'd like it better if Maud and Crowther were just figments of Oscar's imagination, like some sort of Tyler Durden situation (after all, like Crowther said, "The first rule of the Casterbridge Pacific Company is you do not talk about the Casterbridge Pacific Company.") Or maybe ghosts.

edit-

Come to think of it, if Oscar has the booklet, maybe he can find out who printed it and the printer can give him a lead if Maud/Crowther didn't cover their tracks well enough with the printer.

Edited December 12, 2023 by caburrito