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S02.E07: Wonders Never Cease


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Alright. I absolutely teared up during Agnes & Luke's talk.  Agnes is tough but she's loyal and very loving.  And Luke's final talk with Ada?  Oh man .. major tears.  Such sweetness and love.

I also loved Bertha & George's discussion about the opera wars.  Their support of each other is wonderful to see.  Mrs. Astor showed her soft, white underbelly in that charity meeting.  That lady is S-C-A-R-E-D.

Peggy - listen to your mother.  She speaks sense.

Mrs Fish is my spirit animal.  Her love of drama is me.

Damn.  Is there anything Bannister doesn't know about?? 

Oh Larry. You're a good guy.  And George! You helped him reveal the truth. Now secure Marian.

Jack!!! Awesome!! Something happy!

Oscar.  You fool. You utter, utter fool. Not just yours but your mother's? 

How the hell am I supposed to wait a week till the next episode???

Edited by ChlcGal
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I figured that Mrs. Astor would offer Bertha a box at the Academy. It was a smart move.

Perhaps, Oscar would do a little more due diligence next time. As a banker, he should know that... but as a fortune hunter, he didn't give a fuck.

Bannister coming through, helping Jack!

How many episodes we have this season? Is it also 9 episodes like last season?

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Could the Van Rhijn’s now be poor? Gasp! Poor Ada, they let her be happy for one episode and then kill off Luke, that was fast, too fast. And now she might be poor thanks to Oscar.

Good news for Collier and Jack. And for the new school Peggy and her Mom are championing. 
I’m getting bored with the Opera war between Bertha and Mrs. Astor. I’m still shipping Marian and Larry. 

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Well everyone who predicted Oscar would lose all of Agnes's money was either very prescient or privy to spoilers. This strikes me as a rather stupid plot twist that makes Oscar look like an idiot. I could see someone like Larry making such a foolish mistake given his lack of experience in the business world, but Oscar is supposed to be a banker. To invest all of his family's money in some sham business without doing the least due diligence on the alleged company and their odds of getting a good return is just laughable.

Agnes doesn't come off well either entrusting her entire fortune to her son. She knows he is prone to be reckless and make choices she doesn't approve of. I can't imagine any reason she would have allowed him access to withdraw the entirety of their accounts.

Now if it turns out Ada inherits a large fortune of her own from her husband of two days, as others have speculated with or without access to spoilers, I will be doubly mad. Just - it's dumb.

Speaking of Larry he looks like a little boy playing grownup talking to the guy about giving credit to the architect's wife. George is just so domineering and charismatic it makes Larry look even younger than he actually is.

Where does Peggy get the money to have such beautiful clothes? She's wearing a different fashionable outfit in every scene she's in, not to mention an exquisite gown at the rooftop party. I can't imagine she makes that much as Agnes's secretary or as a writer at The Globe. Do her parents give her an allowance? She doesn't seem like the type that would accept it. Especially since she was largely estranged from them until recently.

I hope we're done with this stupid clock story. I can't believe this is what passes for a servant story. The show seems to think I care about Jack far more than I do.

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Meh: Saw all of that Oscar shite coming, and I think I can see the future.  Agnes isn't moving house.

Not meh:   EMILY! They did copy her court dress, which can live with. It was lovely.  The real opening of the brooklyn bridge was more dramatic, involving PT Barnum and elephants and more, but this was ok.  We don't know the exact real story of Emily and her husband because correspondence was burned up.

Peggy better watch out for mom, she's on the case. More Audra McDonald is a pure joy.

 

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3 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Where does Peggy get the money to have such beautiful clothes? She's wearing a different fashionable outfit in every scene she's in, not to mention an exquisite gown at the rooftop party.

I imagine from her parents. I've always been of the belief that her parents give her money.

Edited by AntFTW
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How did Oscar have access to moms money? He seemed to be in an allowance and the dissolute guy we met last season would have spent it.

i know he’s a banker. Did he… embezzle the funds? Without asking?

 

twice this season we had Big Important Plot Points that began and ended in two episodes. First Peggy’s baby. Now Ada’s marriage. It’s BORING. And JF missed a chance to tell a story that hardly ever gets told- middle aged romantic love. 

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23 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Where does Peggy get the money to have such beautiful clothes? She's wearing a different fashionable outfit in every scene she's in, not to mention an exquisite gown at the rooftop party. I can't imagine she makes that much as Agnes's secretary or as a writer at The Globe. Do her parents give her an allowance? She doesn't seem like the type that would accept it. Especially since she was largely estranged from them until recently.

 

I don't get the impression that a modern girl in that time would be the same in ours, someone who won't take money from her parents. They don't want her walking around looking like a poorer person. 

This show is definitely cranking up the soapiness this season, but I don't get why JF is so determined to rush through stuff. If we'd gotten to know and like Forte more and depend on him and Ada as a couple his death would be more meaningful without losing any of the short-nature of the marriage. It does make it seem like the reverend is going to leave Ada money, as if most of his purpose was to fill up the coffers after Oscar's mistake. Sort of like a certain short term fiance conveniently saved everything on his other show. JF does not have interest in his rich people being poor.

At least George's not firing on the workers was given a ruthless, strategic spin.

It was hard to focus on anything in that Bridge meeting besides Bertha's hat. That was a super aggressive hat. 

Making Oscar put his entire family fortune into this scam is pretty ridiculous. It's one thing for him to get scammed because of his own greed, assumption that a young woman can't be playing him and him being a fortune-hunter himself, but why would he put all of that money in anything, much less a company he didn't check at all? It's pretty funny that he goes all that time giving money to the company and then the whole thing falls apart just because he decided to say hi to his neighbor. 

12 minutes ago, Conotocarious said:

No one is privy to spoilers. The problem is Julian Fellowes storytelling is TIRED.

 

Exactly. There's not even any reason to try to look up spoilers on a Julian Fellowes show.

In fact, there was a comment on a T&Lo post that summed up the show so beautifully. The person said they spent every episode knowing exactly what was going to happen next while also feeling like they must have missed a scene.

Edited by sistermagpie
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3 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

It's pretty funny that he goes all that time giving money to the company and then the whole thing falls apart just because he decided to say hi to his neighbor. 

Well... I cracked up! 😂

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5 minutes ago, Conotocarious said:

I mean, Oscar isn’t the first banker to make stupid stupid investments. The Big Short, anyone?

don’t assume that because someone is a banker or handles large amounts of money means they are sound decision makers.  Practically every financial crisis ever proves otherwise.

Being a banker doesn't mean you stop making bad or stupid investments, but there usually is some amount of due diligence. Whether that due diligence is sufficient or not is a separate question but Oscar conducted none.

Edited by AntFTW
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9 minutes ago, quarks said:

4. Calling it now, without any advance spoilers: next episode, Marian realizes that she can't marry Cousin Dashiell because she doesn't love him, only to realize in the very next scene or two that she has to marry Cousin Dashiell because otherwise Agnes, Ada, Oscar and the various servants, with the exception of Clock Guy, won't have anywhere to live which is just awful, only to realize that she just can't, only to be saved at the last minute by Ada's inheritance from Rev Dead Poets. (Whoever came up with that name, thank you.) Lingering shots will suggest a future relationship between Marian and Larry.

I honestly feel like I've already watched all this happen!

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8 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

Being a banker doesn't mean you stop making bad or stupid investments, but there usually is some amount of due diligence. Whether that due diligence is sufficient or not is a separate question but Oscar conducted none.

There’s a lot of following the crowd and FOMO. Nothing new. These scams are a tale as old as time.

 

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Oscar, after getting beaten up and having his money stolen from the male hustler: I have learned my lesson!

Oscar, after getting led around by the nose and having his money stolen from a female con artist: Clearly, I learned the wrong lesson!

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I'm glad they finished the Watson/Collyer/Russell valet storyline.

1 minute ago, Francie said:

Oscar, after getting beaten up and having his money stolen from the male hustler: I have learned my lesson!

Oscar, after getting led around by the nose and having his money stolen from a female con artist: Clearly, I learned the wrong lesson!

Poetic justice! I love it.

I hope we've settled the debate on whether Oscar is a fortune hunter.

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56 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Well everyone who predicted Oscar would lose all of Agnes's money was either very prescient or privy to spoilers.

As I said on an earlier episode thread, I just watch way too much Leverage.  This whole episode mirrored so many Leverage reveals, down to the mark running into a building to find an empty  office space. 

That said, I think this was decently done, especially Oscar's breakdown to John, and the end scene with Oscar and Agnes is probably my favorite scene of Oscar's.

So we have a few possibilities/probabilities for how the VR household will survive.  Will it be:

a) Rev. Dead Poet is secretly filthy rich, and Ada inherits?

b) Cousin Dashiel has more money than we know and can cover Agnes and Ada?

c) Marian's "worthless" stocks are now worth something, and she becomes the new VR head of household?

d) Marian dumps Cousin Dashiel and marries Larry, who provides the VR's with an infusion of cash?

or e) Mrs. Fish wasn't just spying on conversations to be nosy, she knows something about Maude and will somehow lead Larry to her and he will recover most of the money?

While I would love (e) to happen, I think (a) is the most likely, and would also provide a fun set up for reversal of power dynamics in the VR household for Season 3.

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3 minutes ago, chaifan said:

or e) Mrs. Fish wasn't just spying on conversations to be nosy, she knows something about Maude and will somehow lead Larry to her and he will recover most of the money?

While I would love (e) to happen, I think (a) is the most likely, and would also provide a fun set up for reversal of power dynamics in the VR household for Season 3.

I hope (e) doesn't happen. I want them down and out for a little while! 😭

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38 minutes ago, quarks said:

And sure, bankers make mistakes all the time. But Oscar was introduced to us as someone who deliberately spies on his neighbors for financial advantage, and tries to learn things to achieve his goals. This felt out of character.

I've seen posts pointing out the parallel between this story and Robert Crawley (Downton Abbey) losing Cora's fortune making bad investments in railways. 

The lack of Julian Fellowes' imagination aside, the difference here is that the Crawleys, as aristocrats, were notoriously bad at managing money and out of touch with the real world, hence the need for Cora's fortune in the first place.

A fortune hunter, by definition, wants money. They don't throw what they have against the wall to see what sticks. And Oscar is a banker. Do you know what bankers do when they loan money to borrowers? They assess whether or not the borrower has the means to repay the loan and make good on the investment. The idea that Oscar never even bothered to check whether or not this was even a real company is absurd.

I realize Oscar was under the impression that Maud was on the up and up. That much I can believe. But here again it's necessary to throw away our modern take on this situation. A man of Oscar's position and means in that era would not rely solely on the actions or circumstances of a woman. He would have at least made a modicum of effort to determine whether or not this alleged company could reasonably guarantee a good return. 

This is a classic case of "idiot plot." In order for it to work, everyone involved has to be idiots. 

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1 hour ago, ChlcGal said:

 

Mrs Fish is my spirit animal.  Her love of drama is me.

I did love her being a complete weirdo and maneuvering herself so she could hear the gossip.

5 minutes ago, chaifan said:

This whole episode mirrored so many Leverage reveals, down to the mark running into a building to find an empty  office space. 

 Yes, a lot of tv shows and movies have done variations of that plotline.

I did think the scene between Agnes and Luke was lovely.   

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Oscar: Maud Beaton, the woman who led me there...

Me: No, no Oscar. Take some accountability. You led yourself there.

 

ETA: Regarding Oscar being scammed, I was convinced that Oscar would lose his money, but on the fence on whether it was a scam. The one thing that kept me on the fence about whether it was a scam was Oscar, himself, voluntarily throwing himself into it. In other words, to me, it didn't look like Maud Beaton was luring him into a scam but Oscar was luring himself. Oscar and Maud were building a companionship, and it is expected that they talk about their day and their problems. Maud telling Oscar about her "business" and saying how much she doesn't want to be part of it didn't seem like scam behavior to me. Maud didn't imply or hinted that she needed Oscar's help or his money. Maud didn't imply or hint that she even wanted Oscar to go to their office. Oscar invited himself to that office with no pressure from anyone to do so; Oscar offered his money with no pressure from anyone to do so. No one asked Oscar to write a check, or two checks. Oscar led himself to the slaughter, and refused to take 'no' for an answer. Maud Beaton, quite literally, didn't have to convince or lure or pressure Oscar to do anything. That's what kept me on the fence about whether it was a scam.

Also, someone told me last week that the scene where Oscar goes into the empty office in this episode was in the season trailer. I didn't recall seeing that in the trailer, and still didn't see it after rewatching the trailers. Had I seen it, it definitely would have put me on the "scam" side.

Edited by AntFTW
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My favorite moments from this episode:

The adorable Pumpkin! 🐶

AD79728C-4BA2-4D55-8A6F-00BB1D426052.jpeg

Mrs. Bruce watching the fireworks with Chef Baudin from a secluded rooftop.

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Marian’s demeanor totally changes once she sees Larry. Dashiell who? Larry is so gentle and comforting with her. 💕

Quote

MARIAN: “It doesn’t seem fair when Aunt Ada is such a gentle, kind soul. I mean, I wouldn’t be here if it weren’t for her. She was the one who sent for me from Pennsylvania.”

44E30C0E-D6E1-46DD-BB5C-2E1C6FF7A067.jpeg

 

Edited by Snazzy Daisy
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2 minutes ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

Marian’s demeanor totally changes once she sees Larry. Dashiell who? Larry is so gentle and comforting with her. 💕

I noticed too. She completely dropped her guard with Larry and got vulnerable with him. She didn't do that with Dashiell.

3 minutes ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

Mrs. Bruce watching the fireworks with Chef Baudin from a secluded rooftop.

7B6CF615-96A5-4F01-9EE3-0039CD265112.jpeg

That roof has never spent a day outside!

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3 hours ago, chaifan said:

a) Rev. Dead Poet is secretly filthy rich, and Ada inherits?

Irl it couldn't be a secret as a suitor should have presented his financial situation to the father or guardian (as Oscar tried to do to George). Ada of course has no guardian and Agnes gave her supoort for her marriage only in the last minute. Otherwise she surely would have demanded to know how her sister would be provided as a wife and a widow. Were there pensions for priests' widows?

Does anybody know if there were marriage settlements in the US as in Britain?

 

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5 hours ago, ChlcGal said:

Peggy - listen to your mother.  She speaks sense.

Yes, but her reasoning "I raised you better" would only irritate Peggy and make her do just the opposite, especially as both parents wants her to "live her life" (i.e. to marry a suitable man) instead of writing about others' lives.

Peggy seems to be astonishly naive after all her experiences. If she wants one day to publish books, she should be determined to make choices that make that possible.

It was a red flag that Mr Fortune served Peggy strong liquor. He doesn't act according her best interests.

 

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7 hours ago, chaifan said:

As I said on an earlier episode thread, I just watch way too much Leverage.  This whole episode mirrored so many Leverage reveals, down to the mark running into a building to find an empty  office space. 

That said, I think this was decently done, especially Oscar's breakdown to John, and the end scene with Oscar and Agnes is probably my favorite scene of Oscar's.

So we have a few possibilities/probabilities for how the VR household will survive.  Will it be:

a) Rev. Dead Poet is secretly filthy rich, and Ada inherits?

b) Cousin Dashiel has more money than we know and can cover Agnes and Ada?

c) Marian's "worthless" stocks are now worth something, and she becomes the new VR head of household?

d) Marian dumps Cousin Dashiel and marries Larry, who provides the VR's with an infusion of cash?

or e) Mrs. Fish wasn't just spying on conversations to be nosy, she knows something about Maude and will somehow lead Larry to her and he will recover most of the money?

While I would love (e) to happen, I think (a) is the most likely, and would also provide a fun set up for reversal of power dynamics in the VR household for Season 3.

you are forgetting f) the watch takes off and Jack becomes rich and successful and winds up supporting everyone, including all the other servants.  

 

And of course  there's the extra stupid possibility of Ada inheriting a ton of money now, and of the family somehow losing it again, and then Marian marries Larry, who will provide a second infusion of cash to resolve this problem the second time.   Possibly really stupid plots for season 3 and 4.  The good news is that at least the show is better, even if the plots are still awful (and Jack got his patent!)

 

 

I also agree with everyone who said that Agnes has too much sense to let Oscar control her money, but I wonder if it was left somehow in a trust she controlled until her son turned 18 and then he gained control of it?  This show was much weaker last season, so I don't remember much of it and might have missed where it was stated that Agnes stupidly gave Oscar control over the family money, but that wouldn't really be in character for her (she's quite bright and really likes controlling everyone) but this isn't the most brilliantly written show so its possible she handed over control of her finances for plot purposes.

Edited by kitkat343
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Small nitpick about the scene where Marion meets Larry and she’s all decked out in pretty pastels:  there’s been a death in the family and there’s a dead body in the house. Shouldn’t there be a mourning wreath on the door and the inhabitants wearing black?  That felt jarring to me. 

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Bye, Luke!  It was nice knowing you for a minute.  

Oh, Oscar.  Smitten by a pretty face and greed so he loses his mother's fortune just as predicted.  (And now we know Maud was a fraud (heh) too.)  

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

This is a classic case of "idiot plot." In order for it to work, everyone involved has to be idiots.

Oscar is certainly an idiot.

Yeah, it's pretty clear that if not in the season finale, surely next season something/someone is going to bale out their financial mess.  I'm betting on the conveniently wealthy, conveniently dead spouse.  

In 1983 my husband and I were newlyweds.  We made the spontaneous decision to go into NYC for the 100th anniversary celebration of the Brooklyn Bridge.  It was one of those memorable times you never forget.  (And we almost didn't make it home because of the crowds.  Just barely caught the last train to CT.)  So watching the celebration during this show brought back a lot of memories.  It must have been a similar atmosphere - pure joy and awe.

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1 hour ago, Trillian said:

Small nitpick about the scene where Marion meets Larry and she’s all decked out in pretty pastels:  there’s been a death in the family and there’s a dead body in the house. Shouldn’t there be a mourning wreath on the door and the inhabitants wearing black?  That felt jarring to me. 

A good observation. Mourning clothes weren't a matter of choice, there was a strict code for them, according to how near realtive the deceased person was. Luke was Marian's uncle by Ada's marriage.

On the other hand, when Marian arrived to Agnes's house after her father's death, she didn't wear black but some kind of muted color and Agnes forbid her even that and ordered her new dresses in order to catch suitors. 

And Marian didn't change her dress in the earlier episode - she went straight from the school to the party. Who does that even today?

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10 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

Could the Van Rhijn’s now be poor?

Relatively. Maybe they will afford only a small house and three servants.

10 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Where does Peggy get the money to have such beautiful clothes? She's wearing a different fashionable outfit in every scene she's in, not to mention an exquisite gown at the rooftop party. I can't imagine she makes that much as Agnes's secretary or as a writer at The Globe. Do her parents give her an allowance? She doesn't seem like the type that would accept it. Especially since she was largely estranged from them until recently.

We have bveen shown that both her parents have given her money. While they understandable want to show their love thus, it isn't a good tactic to get her return home. It will more wiser to let her experience what kind of life she can afford on her own. They know she doesn't lack food or shelter.

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1 hour ago, Trillian said:

Small nitpick about the scene where Marion meets Larry and she’s all decked out in pretty pastels:  there’s been a death in the family and there’s a dead body in the house. Shouldn’t there be a mourning wreath on the door and the inhabitants wearing black?  That felt jarring to me. 

Did you notice that she had a black velvet ribbon around her waist and down the side of her dress?  I believe that was what was designating mourning.  Young unmarried women didn’t wear the full black.  I’m surprised Larry didn’t make note of it.

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11 hours ago, ChlcGal said:

Oscar.  You fool. You utter, utter fool. Not just yours but your mother's? 

 

HA! Called it!

Also, HA!

ETA: I find the insinuation that people who guessed this were privy to spoilers pretty low.

Edited by ofmd
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11 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I hope we're done with this stupid clock story. I can't believe this is what passes for a servant story. The show seems to think I care about Jack far more than I do.

At least we didn't have to suffer (yet?) with a "stolen invention" story. I suspected the seemingly-kind clock club person might be angling to "steal" Jack's wonderous clock invention. Not so much, so far. Nevertheless, the clock tanget story continues to be wontonly stupid. Because the Patent Office never bases the patentability of an invention on an inventor's membership in any group, Jack's admission into the ridulously German-sounding clock club wouldn't change anything. However, it remains true even today that it can be  shockingly easy to renew a patent application after the Patent Office rejects it. 

The Brooklyn Bridge story was far more successful. As with a prior episode that featured the electrication of downtown Manhattan, this is where this series can shine. There's far more to mine in the technological and social progress taking place at this time than in wallowing in the opera box wars. The wonder and joy that all seemed to have with the Brooklyn Bridge's opening reads true. And it's a fundamental part of how the world we now live in came to be. That all could share in that wonder and joy was nice to see, even if the different groups weren't together to do that. 

Edited by ahpny
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this past february me and the 23yo daughter did a walking tour of the brooklyn bridge.  it was my take away that only the Roebling staff (house hold and engineering) knew the depth of Mrs Roeblings contribution.  I seriously doubt that anyone thanked her at the ceremonies.  I get that its TV...but I found that part a little ridiculous.  She didn't even get a her name on a plaque until recent years and its a very small, non-descript one at that.  

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3 hours ago, kitkat343 said:

I also agree with everyone who said that Agnes has too much sense to let Oscar control her money

But is that really true from her pov? From all we know, and I have only foggy memories of season 1, so I might have forgotten, but afaik, Oscar has been a perfectly competent, conservative banker. (Or maybe he secretly gambled with people's money but it hasn't come out yet.) So why should you not take advantage of the banker in your family to take care of your money?

As for his private life... He keeps most of that secret. And chasing rich daughters half his age... That was not considered abnormal, if a tad obvious. I bet that from Agnes' pov, he's a bit of a rambunctious bachelor, not the sleazy, greedy guy that we've come to know and tolerate.

Edited by ofmd
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11 minutes ago, ofmd said:

But is that really true from her pov? From all we know, and I have only foggy memories of season 1, so I might have forgotten, but afaik, Oscar has been a perfectly competent, conservative banker. (Or maybe he secretly gambled with people's money but it hasn't come out yet.) So why should you not take advantage of the banker in your family to take care of your money?

As for his private life... He keeps most of that secret. And chasing rich daughters half his age... That was not considered abnormal, if a tad obvious. I bet that from Agnes' pov, he's a bit of a rambunctious bachelor, not the sleazy, greedy guy that we've come to know and tolerate.

I think the thing is Maud convinced the matchmaking cousin she was who she says she is. Matchmaking cousin tells Oscar. Oscar trusts her. It is matchmaking cousin’s propensity to gossip and drama.  Os ar has likely been conservative with money so far. 

Edited by Affogato
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Yeah, but as a banker, Oscar should have double-checked the business he was so eager to invest in... and leave the family money well alone. (That said, maybe he has no personal money at all, just a generous allowance?) He is an idiot imho, but Agnes isn't necessarily.

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