S06.E05: Willsmania

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Hounded by press and adoring girls, 15-year-old William struggles to find stability after Diana's death. Charles enlists his own parents to help his son.

Dropping Thursday, December 14, 2023.

[Spartan Girl]

The writers are really going full-throttle in trying to redeem Charles and Camilla for the final stretch, aren’t they?

I did like Philip and William bonding.

[Mrsmaul2021]

Ugh I get what William is saying. "She should have been here with us, protected, not with those people" disclaimer: I am sticking with The Crown.

I don't think Charles understood or respected Diana's position within the family. Charles is the future King and Diana gave birth the other future King. She was future queen/queen mother. Those titles alone put her at great risk unlike Sarah Ferguson or any other royal in that family sans the Queen and Charles himself. I think Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip understood this too. I don't think Charles thought of her safety. He just wanted Camilla and left Diana wide open to the wolves of their world.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Mrsmaul2021

[Brn2bwild]

I'm not a fan of this William actor.  As I mentioned in the Media thread, I think that the previous William actually did a better job invoking the moody, caged, handsome William of that time period.  This William just seems bland. 

It's also a bit annoying that the show insists that unlike Diana, William was shy and didn't want the spotlight.  Neither did Diana at first!  She was hounded by the press before she was even married and had to move into the Palace for protection (at least in The Crown's version).  

[Mrsmaul2021]

1 minute ago, Brn2bwild said:

I'm not a fan of this William actor.  As I mentioned in the Media thread, I think that the previous William actually did a better job invoking the moody, caged, handsome William of that time period.  This William just seems bland. 

It's also a bit annoying that the show insists that unlike Diana, William was shy and didn't want the spotlight.  Neither did Diana at first!  She was hounded by the press before she was even married and had to move into the Palace for protection (at least in The Crown's version).  

 

 

OMG I said the same! Once again Charles is bad mouthing Diana to Camilla. 

[Spartan Girl]

I mean they didn’t call her “Shy Di” for nothing! 

[Roseanna]

1 hour ago, Mrsmaul2021 said:

Ugh I get what William is saying. "She should have been here with us, protected, not with those people" disclaimer: I am sticking with The Crown.

I don't think Charles understood or respected Diana's position within the family. Charles is the future King and Diana gave birth the other future King. She was future queen/queen mother. Those titles alone put her at great risk unlike Sarah Ferguson or any other royal in that family sans the Queen and Charles himself. I think Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip understood this too. I don't think Charles thought of her safety. He just wanted Camilla and left Diana wide open to the wolves of their world.

I think Philip was quite right: as many children, William was angry at his mum for "leaving" him, but because she was dead and he lover her, he turned his anger at his dad.  

Diana was no more an experienced bride but a 37 year old woman who after the divorce was responsible for her relationship. 

 

[Snazzy Daisy]

Overall, Willsmania is quite dull. Thanks to Ed McVey who struggles to emote Willam’s anger, pain and misery. They should’ve kept and aged up Rufus Kampa.

 

Parts that I love: ❤️

• Phillip reaching out to William with that deep, emotional talk. He steps in and sets his grandson straight. It’s the most compelling scene in this episode.
• William tells Charles point-blank that he doesn’t like to be upstaged. Ouch.
• Seeing The Gilded Age’s no moustache Oscar van Rhijn (Blake Ritson) plays Eton housemaster, Dr. Gailey. 

 

Some eye-rolling moments: 🙄🙄🙄

• Charles is portrayed as someone who acknowledges his flaws and in touch with his feelings.
• Camilla is great at giving sensible parenting advice.
• Remarks about Diana loving and comfortable being in the limelight.
• Generational traumas can be solved in 53 minutes. A hug with Pa communicates a thousand words.
• Harry is going through the same emotions as William but his pain doesn’t matter. The 13yo Harry in this episode doesn’t seem to be much affected by the recent tragedy.

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Snazzy Daisy

[Mrsmaul2021]

14 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

I think Philip was quite right: as many children, William was angry at his mum for "leaving" him, but because she was dead and he lover her, he turned his anger at his dad.  

Diana was no more an experienced bride but a 37 year old woman who after the divorce was responsible for her relationship. 

 

 

 

Philip was the "hero" in this ep and I should have clarified. In no way am I blaming Charles for her death but Charles never respected her position in that family and by divorcing her, he left her wide open to predators, jackals, scavengers, anybody wanting a piece of that life or wanting any shot/glimpse of Diana.  He seemed more upset when Camilla was hounded by the press but turns around and get upset when Camilla does not get the same adoration as Diana.  

[MadyGirl1987]

35 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

I think Philip was quite right: as many children, William was angry at his mum for "leaving" him, but because she was dead and he lover her, he turned his anger at his dad.  

Diana was no more an experienced bride but a 37 year old woman who after the divorce was responsible for her relationship. 

 

Exactly. I think Philip read it right. It was the classic anger stage of grief, and as you pointed out many children will redirect that to the surviving parent. I also agree that it was not Charles or the royal family’s fault she died. It was a freak accident where many different factors played a part. If the driver wasn’t drunk, if the press weren’t chasing, if Diana and Dodi had stayed at the Ritz, if she was wearing a seatbelt. That whole night is full of factors and “what-ifs” that, change any one of them, she might have lived. And yeah, Diana was an adult responsible for her choices. She chose to go to Paris with Dodi, she chose to get in that car. She didn’t cause her own death, and I don’t want it to seem like I’m blaming her, because I’m not, but I think it does her a disservice to treat her like a child who didn’t have any control of her life.

Apart from the blaming Charles, though, I really felt for William in this. I could definitely relate to how he just wanted to be as normal as possible and hated how people were reacting to him in the aftermath. I when my mom passed away  that was pretty much how I felt. I find comfort in normality and hate the attention on me. When my dog passed away earlier this year, I actually told my sister I was most dreading having to tell people at work because I didn’t want to be the focus of a lot of grief and sympathy. So I could definitely feel for William here. Also felt so uncomfortable for him with all that attention from the press and teen girls. So hard for a young boy to deal with, even in the best of times.

[txhorns79]

Best part was Anne being all Marcia Brady with Charles: "But Charles, you didn't have any friends..."

[Demian]

4 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

Seeing The Gilded Age’s no moustache Oscar van Rhijn (Blake Ritson) plays Eton housemaster, Dr. Gailey. 

And now I'll be waiting for the housemaster to blow all of William's money on a scammy railroad investment scheme.

[Straycat80]

5 hours ago, MadyGirl1987 said:

Exactly. I think Philip read it right. It was the classic anger stage of grief, and as you pointed out many children will redirect that to the surviving parent. I also agree that it was not Charles or the royal family’s fault she died. It was a freak accident where many different factors played a part. If the driver wasn’t drunk, if the press weren’t chasing, if Diana and Dodi had stayed at the Ritz, if she was wearing a seatbelt. That whole night is full of factors and “what-ifs” that, change any one of them, she might have lived. And yeah, Diana was an adult responsible for her choices. She chose to go to Paris with Dodi, she chose to get in that car. She didn’t cause her own death, and I don’t want it to seem like I’m blaming her, because I’m not, but I think it does her a disservice to treat her like a child who didn’t have any control of her life.

Agree 100% with this. I felt bad for William in this, it must have been hard losing your mother in such a public way and then having to deal with the press and finding yourself a teen heart throb when you didn’t want to be. 
I liked the talk between Phillip and William and then the hug between William and Charles. 

[dubbel zout]

 

6 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

• Camilla is great at giving sensible parenting advice.

At least someone is telling Charles it's not all about him. 

[Spartan Girl]

9 hours ago, Mrsmaul2021 said:

Once again Charles is bad mouthing Diana to Camilla. 

I guess Ghost Diana was right about Charles’ regrets passing. Now we’re back to “nothing’s my fault” and whining about not being able to see Camilla because he’s a “prisoner of public opinion.” 

I’m glad William ripped him a new one when he tried to give the big speech about his own grief. Too bad it didn’t seem to sink in. Instead of owning up to any accountability for the way he treated her, he’s just baffled that William is mad at him. JFC. Maybe if he admitted his guilt, I would’ve been more moved by the hug at the end, but noooooo.

I also was annoyed by the SORAS of Harry and treating him like an afterthought. He loved Diana and was struggling too, but evidentially the show wants to pretend otherwise. Though I did enjoy the bit of their paper ball fight on the plane.

And I was moved by the scene at Diana’s grave.

Edited December 15, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[peridot]

I was a bit confused by the ages of William and Harry in this - they kept drinking so casually.

It's pretty disgusting that all the girls sent love letters to the prince after his mother died. 

It made me laugh some when William dropped those truth bombs on Charles.  It looked like Charles was jealous when all the girls where screaming at William.  I just shook my head when he started to simper about the effect on Camilla.

I liked the scene between Philip and William, I was glad to see some of the original actors in the home videos.  The first seasons were really great.

Edited December 15, 2023 by peridot

[sistermagpie]

10 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

The writers are really going full-throttle in trying to redeem Charles and Camilla for the final stretch, aren’t they?

Oh god, yes. I did not believe at all these scenes of Charles being so emotionally intelligent and eager to be a supportive father and telling William how great he was. It's great having William point out that Charles hates anyone who upstages him, but the show seems to want to make that seem like it's more just a way for William to lash out at patient Charles who understands rather than a deep, deep character issue.

9 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I mean they didn’t call her “Shy Di” for nothing! 

Exactly - it was literally right there in the name in the beginning. Charles would never have married her if she was what she would become from the start!

4 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Best part was Anne being all Marcia Brady with Charles: "But Charles, you didn't have any friends..."

TBF, Charles was probably looking at himself as played by Dominic West, who bears no resemblance to a Charles who was ever friendless.

[Constant Viewer]

Something about Pryce's performance reminded me a lot of Matt Smith. Maybe it was seeing the flashback movies.

[dubbel zout]

17 minutes ago, Constant Viewer said:

Something about Pryce's performance reminded me a lot of Matt Smith. Maybe it was seeing the flashback movies.

That was very good physical casting; you could believe Smith would age into Pryce, or at least I can.

[Ellaria]

Jonathan Pryce saved this episode for me. Such a brilliantly nuanced performance. I’ve actually loved the 3 actors who have played Philip throughout this series.

This sounds mean but Charles’ emotional journey is exhausting. Frankly, I just don’t care. Why do I like everyone else - including Camilla - better than him? Maybe Dominic West has something to do with it. He is a good actor but I find him completely charmless.

 

[Brn2bwild]

35 minutes ago, Ellaria said:

This sounds mean but Charles’ emotional journey is exhausting. Frankly, I just don’t care. Why do I like everyone else - including Camilla - better than him? Maybe Dominic West has something to do with it. He is a good actor but I find him completely charmless.

 

He is miscast for this role, and not just because he doesn't look like Charles.  I've liked him in other roles, such as Jean Valjean in a recent Les Miserables miniseries.

[Blakeston]

10 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

Harry is going through the same emotions as William but his pain doesn’t matter. The 13yo Harry in this episode doesn’t seem to be much affected by the recent tragedy.

I thought this was a bizarre choice. We now know that Harry was completely and utterly devastated by his mother's death. Showing him joking around as if nothing had happened rubbed me the wrong way.

Also, they seemed to have aged Harry about 8 years overnight.

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, Blakeston said:

 

Also, they seemed to have aged Harry about 8 years overnight.

Yeah, they went from an actor who was about 13 when they filmed the first four episodes to an actor who is 23, even though in reality only a few months have passed in the timeline between episodes.  It's an odd casting choice, and is pretty far removed from resembling the real Prince Harry during that time period. 

[CeeBeeGee]

 

On 12/14/2023 at 12:31 PM, Snazzy Daisy said:

 

• Harry is going through the same emotions as William but his pain doesn’t matter. The 13yo Harry in this episode doesn’t seem to be much affected by the recent tragedy.

 

That really bothered me. Look, the name of the episode gives it away, it's going to focus on William. But you can have a moment or two of Harry struggling--a quick take to him, a long shot with him in the background. If someone is mugging around like that in the way of such a devastating event, there's a reason (denial, relief from grief, etc.). It would've been nice to show even a glimpse that Harry too was grieving and struggling. Maybe their self-medicating was supposed to hint at that.

 

On 12/14/2023 at 8:25 PM, Spartan Girl said:

I also was annoyed by the SORAS of Harry and treating him like an afterthought. He loved Diana and was struggling too, but evidentially the show wants to pretend otherwise. Though I did enjoy the bit of their paper ball fight on the plane.

And I was moved by the scene at Diana’s grave.

What's a SORAS? And yes, the scene at Diana's grave was lovely.

My thoughts as I was watching:

For the love of God Dominc West, can you please, please go five seconds without making that stupid moue with your mouth? Debecki had tics as well, but they were at least recognizably Diana's tics. You're already wrong for Charles and every time you do that thing with your mouth, you just remind us that you're Dominic West and not Charles. The directors/showrunner really should've put a stop to that.

"Tears and self-pity.." Oh my God Elizabeth, what the hell is wrong with you???! What a callous, dismissive thing to say! Why didn't these poor kids get therapy?????

I love those green velvet-accented upholstered chairs in the scene where Charles surprises William at tea at Windsor.

Damn. William with the truth-bombs.

In a way, it's rather a sequel to Paterfamilias, one of my very favorite episodes of The Crown.

Edited December 17, 2023 by CeeBeeGee
typo

[Bill1978]

31 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

What's a SORAS?

Soap Opera Rapid Aging Syndrome. 

[Roseanna]

6 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I’m glad William ripped him a new one when he tried to give the big speech about his own grief. Too bad it didn’t seem to sink in. Instead of owning up to any accountability for the way he treated her, he’s just baffled that William is mad at him. JFC. Maybe if he admitted his guilt, I would’ve been more moved by the hug at the end, but noooooo.

But that would be support William in his magical thinking way that the way Charles had treated Diana caused her death when in fact it had nothing to do with it. 

"She would be safe with us" - as if royals had died died in accidents, get sick. or even get assassinated.  

William is too young to realize that when the marriage fails, it's rarely that only one party is responsible. Or, even more importantly, to admit that his parents' marriage couldn't succeed because they were too different persons. 

[Spartan Girl]

10 hours ago, peridot said:

It's pretty disgusting that all the girls sent love letters to the prince after his mother died. 

Seriously. I was a teenage girl, I know how dumb we can be, but JFC. I liked the one girl that just expressed condolences for Diana, that was nice, but the ones raving about how sexy he was bordered on Fatal Attraction!

[cardigirl]

I loved this episode. And I think Dominic West is doing a great job. 

I did think that a lot of viewers might not care for it, because it was somewhat sympathetic to Charles, but I'm not one of them. 

And loved seeing Matt Smith again in the role, on the family movies. 

Edited December 15, 2023 by cardigirl

[sistermagpie]

9 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

"Tears and self-pity.." Oh my God Elizabeth, what the hell is wrong with you???! What a callous, dismissive thing to say! Why didn't these poor kids get therapy?????

But she's right--stiff upper lip was her thing. I found that much more realistic than Charles being just so ready to support William in all the right ways. I believe that he's more comfortable with emotions than the queen, but this just seemed like too much.

7 hours ago, Roseanna said:

William is too young to realize that when the marriage fails, it's rarely that only one party is responsible. Or, even more importantly, to admit that his parents' marriage couldn't succeed because they were too different persons. 

I actually think he does realize it and knew it before the accident. He's been uncomfortable with Diana making him her confidante all the time while always seeming to get along with his father just fine too. But now that she's dead, he's just grasping for some way things could have been different. When Diana told him she didn't want to be in the UK for Camilla's birthday, he probably thought she was being a bit dramatic, but now that she's dead he feels bad about it and is 110% on her side.

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

I actually think he does realize it and knew it before the accident. He's been uncomfortable with Diana making him her confidante all the time while always seeming to get along with his father just fine too. But now that she's dead, he's just grasping for some way things could have been different. When Diana told him she didn't want to be in the UK for Camilla's birthday, he probably thought she was being a bit dramatic, but now that she's dead he feels bad about it and is 110% on her side.

Even if that's the case, it doesn't change the fact that everything William said to Charles was 100% true. He wasn't responsible for the accident itself, but that doesn't change the fact that he hurt Diana. His heart was NEVER in the marriage, and it was always with "the other one." And maybe he couldn't change that, but he still could have done things differently. Like show her a little more compassion and respect instead of resenting all the attention she got and mocking her behind her back to Camilla and Anne.

Just because William never called him out on it before Diana died doesn't mean he wasn't aware of it until now. 

Edited December 15, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[sistermagpie]

27 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Even if that's the case, it doesn't change the fact that everything William said to Charles was 100% true. He wasn't responsible for the accident itself, but that doesn't change the fact that he hurt Diana. His heart was NEVER in the marriage, and it was always with "the other one." And maybe he couldn't change that, but he still could have done things differently. Like show her a little more compassion and respect instead of resenting all the attention she got and mocking her behind her back to Camilla and Anne.

Just because William never called him out on it before Diana died doesn't mean he wasn't aware of it until now. 

Agreed--I was just referring to the idea that William always saw his parents' marriage in very simple, black and white terms that didn't make them both flawed, complicated people. I think he did see them both as flawed--but that didn't mean he couldn't have had opinions on their behavior that were legitimate. He's not confused or wrong about what he's saying to Charles here, just pushing it a little further in his grief. 

And frankly, he has good reason to be annoyed at Charles suddenly acting like they all (or at least him and William!) need to come together to mourn Mummy as if there's no conflict between their two very different relationships with her. "We'd worked out our differences" is a pretty laughable line.

Edited December 15, 2023 by sistermagpie

[Sweet-tea]

On 12/14/2023 at 9:38 AM, Brn2bwild said:

I'm not a fan of this William actor.  As I mentioned in the Media thread, I think that the previous William actually did a better job invoking the moody, caged, handsome William of that time period.  This William just seems bland. 

It's also a bit annoying that the show insists that unlike Diana, William was shy and didn't want the spotlight.  Neither did Diana at first!  She was hounded by the press before she was even married and had to move into the Palace for protection (at least in The Crown's version).  

I don't like him as much either. He also looks too old to me. Wasn't William supposed to be 15 or 16 in this episode? The actor looks to be in his 20s. They should've used the previous actor and switched to this one when they get to the William and Kate years. The other Harry actor was also much more age-appropriate. Why did they switch to the older one? It's only been a few months since she died. 

You are so right. Diana was shy at first! There was a lot of talk about it in the press. 

They are trying to make Charles look like a sensitive, caring dad. This isn't the impression I've gotten from stories about the real Charles. The scene of them hugging did pull at my heart strings though. Understated but lovely. 

Anyone notice the stark contrast between Camilla and Diana in one of the phone scenes with Charles? Camilla is all, "Oh don't worry about me, I'm fine" stiff upper lip, unselfish, whereas they've shown many scenes of Diana as needy and erratic. Perhaps Camilla is a no-nonsense type of woman, but I can't help but think they're glossing her up as part of the Charles redemption arc. 

I remember William being very popular but were girls really screaming and carrying on like that? 

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by Sweet-tea

[Helena Dax]

Loved Philip in this episode, didn't care that much about everything else. And I agree that it's weird to see Harry so little affected by his mother's death when William is angsting all over the place. 

[tennisgurl]

I know that this is going to be pretty William centric going forward, but I was sad to see so little of Harry. He should have been going through the same angst and grief as William but he seems to be just living his best life. Plus his age up was really distracting, I know that this show always does age ups, but this was way too jarring. 

Its going to be interesting seeing how the show wraps up, as we deal with the passing of Diana and the way that has affected the monarchy. 

This show has struggled so much with Charles, its like they either want to make him a perfectly lovely guy or make him an absolute monster, swinging back and fourth season to season. I don't buy him being emotionally mature enough to deal with William in this way, although I do think that he does miss Diana and regrets how bad things got. I don't think that Charles is at all responsible for her death but I can see why William blames him. The constant public fights between his parents was clearly rough on the kids, he probably always had a lot of anger towards his parents that is now being mixed with his grief over his mother and its much easier to be angry at the still living parent than the dead one.  

For as much ridiculous stuff as Philip says, every once in awhile he totally comes through.

[Jodithgrace]

Poor Harry. Not only did they age him up, but they gave him the haircut from hell. This new actor doesn’t look at  Harry did, at all, and instead looks like he wandered in from Harry Potter. I wonder if they are going to give him short shrift.

I was fascinated by all the outfits William wore just to go to school. The long frock coat he was wearing at dinner, that white tie thing he was wearing in the chapel…I can just imagine American kids being given that dress code. 

Ah William, enjoy that floppy hair. 

[Roseanna]

10 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I know that this is going to be pretty William centric going forward, but I was sad to see so little of Harry. He should have been going through the same angst and grief as William but he seems to be just living his best life.

There are many ways to react to to loss. William is openly angry, so his family and  notice how he is hurting and at least try to help him. Instead, Harry shut himself from feelings, so it would have demanded a psychoatrist to notice that he isn't okay. 

Also, Charles's siblings never got much space. 

[Peanutflutter33]

On 12/14/2023 at 10:38 AM, Brn2bwild said:

I'm not a fan of this William actor.  As I mentioned in the Media thread, I think that the previous William actually did a better job invoking the moody, caged, handsome William of that time period.  This William just seems bland. 

I agree but also think that’s the point. Early on, both William and Harry show typical college behavior like drinking and partying. But William quickly matured and realized his duty which may seem boring and bland compared to his brother. It mirrored the comparisons always made between Elizabeth and her sister. 

[Brn2bwild]

37 minutes ago, Peanutflutter33 said:

I agree but also think that’s the point. Early on, both William and Harry show typical college behavior like drinking and partying. But William quickly matured and realized his duty which may seem boring and bland compared to his brother. It mirrored the comparisons always made between Elizabeth and her sister. 

But the scenes in which he is boring and bland aren't just scenes where he is intentionally being serious - it is every scene.  

And I would disagree with comparisons to Queen Elizabeth II and her sister.  As played by Claire Foy, she was incredibly expressive and vibrant in her role, despite being the "staid" older sibling.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Brn2bwild

[RunningMarket]

I giggled and did a little air punch when they said "a school for the deaf" as part of their visit. That's my highschool, and I graduated the year prior. (At the time, I was insanely jealous of my younger friends still there.) To clarify, the school for the deaf was integrated into a regular highschool, and there was a lot of (at the time) advanced technology around the entire campus to accommodate it. I remember the utter chaos of those 3 visiting. Manhole covers and mailboxes being removed from the streets, detours, the whole bit.

As with much of the first half of the season, I'm also going to take "conversations that didn't actually happen for 1000, Alex." 

[Sailorgirl26]

23 hours ago, Jodithgrace said:

Poor Harry. Not only did they age him up, but they gave him the haircut from hell. This new actor doesn’t look at  Harry did, at all, and instead looks like he wandered in from Harry Potter. I wonder if they are going to give him short shrift.

I was fascinated by all the outfits William wore just to go to school. The long frock coat he was wearing at dinner, that white tie thing he was wearing in the chapel…I can just imagine American kids being given that dress code. 

Ah William, enjoy that floppy hair. 

I waas coming here to say this . .  the actor playing Harry is just not a good casting choice. Even though Dominic West isn't great as Charles, I can still somewhat see it. But the acctor playing Harry? Not. At. All. 

[BloomsburyRez]

On 12/15/2023 at 1:24 AM, CeeBeeGee said:

In a way, it's rather a sequel to Paterfamilias, one of my very favorite episodes of The Crown.

I thought the same, down to Phillip paraphrasing what Dickie said to him that he’d make mistakes with his own sons.

I mentioned in another thread that this season you can believe that Imelda Staunton & Jonathan Pryce are playing the characters established by Claire Foy & Matt Smith (which was not the case last season).

[HappyHanna]

15 minutes ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

23 hours ago, Jodithgrace said:

Poor Harry. Not only did they age him up, but they gave him the haircut from hell. This new actor doesn’t look at  Harry did, at all, and instead looks like he wandered in from Harry Potter. I wonder if they are going to give him short shrift.

I was fascinated by all the outfits William wore just to go to school. The long frock coat he was wearing at dinner, that white tie thing he was wearing in the chapel…I can just imagine American kids being given that dress code. 

Ah William, enjoy that floppy hair. 

Expand  

I waas coming here to say this . .  the actor playing Harry is just not a good casting choice. Even though Dominic West isn't great as Charles, I can still somewhat see it. But the acctor playing Harry? Not. At. All.

He looks like a younger Eddie Redmayne to me, it's distracting. Also the actor is 23, he's not believable as a, what 15 or 16 year old? Not that the William actor was believable as a teenager either but I can almost as a college student. 

[sistermagpie]

40 minutes ago, HappyHanna said:

He looks like a younger Eddie Redmayne to me, it's distracting. Also the actor is 23, he's not believable as a, what 15 or 16 year old? Not that the William actor was believable as a teenager either but I can almost as a college student. 

Harry should be something like 13 at this point. He's a kid!

[Soapy Goddess]

I'm probably going to show my ignorance with this question, but since it was part of this episode, I'll ask anyway:

Why was Will's pen engraved "W. Wales" when his last name is Mountbatten?? I get the Prince of Wales, but usually when something is engraved it's usually first name (or initial) and last name. Any title is usually underneath the first & last name (i.e. John Doe, CEO or President)

I also heard Harry referred to as Harry Wales, but I don't recall the scene. 

 

 

[Roseanna]

2 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

I'm probably going to show my ignorance with this question, but since it was part of this episode, I'll ask anyway:

Why was Will's pen engraved "W. Wales" when his last name is Mountbatten?? I get the Prince of Wales, but usually when something is engraved it's usually first name (or initial) and last name. Any title is usually underneath the first & last name (i.e. John Doe, CEO or President)

I also heard Harry referred to as Harry Wales, but I don't recall the scene. 

During WW1, George V ordered that the the royal house is called Windsor. When Elizabeth II became the Queen, it was announced that the name stands, despite her marriage with Philip Mountbatten (see Season 1).  

Before Andrew was born, the Queen announced that her descendants who aren't in direct succession order would use the surname Mountbatten-Windor (see Season 2). 

The royal children who are in direct succession order don't use surname, but are called by their father's current title. Officially they were Prince Wiliam of Wales and Prince Harry of Wales. However, at school and in the miliitary they were called William Wales and Harry Wales.

 

[PRgal]

On 12/14/2023 at 4:43 PM, Demian said:

And now I'll be waiting for the housemaster to blow all of William's money on a scammy railroad investment scheme.

Well, it was the late 90s, so it would have been some dot-com scheme.  

[GHScorpiosRule]

This was SO RIVETING! That I…fell asleep.

Halfway through.

[MJ Frog]

Everything that I've heard about Charles paints him in a good light as a father, so I don't find him particularly unbelievable here. At least, no more unbelievable than Prince Philip (a character I actively hated for long stretches of this show) suddenly being a font of fatherly wisdom. Charles has faults aplenty, and we have seen many of them. There are no shortage of reasons to be angry with him. But he isn’t Snidely Whiplash either -- few people are. He can be childish and selfish, but he has also been shown to be capable of genuine sensitivity and depth of feeling. In the context of this drama he is a complicated fellow, as are many people, and that complexity is a hallmark of good writing.

[Hanahope]

i agree with others that the casting change, mostly for harry, really took me out of the show.  the show runners needed to keep the same cast from the prior episode.  either both from this one, or both from the last one.  having harry age up 3-4 years in 3-4 months was ridiculous.  it was slightly less noticeable for Wills, but even he aged up a couple of years in a couple of months.  

that said, i do see how the showrunners are definitely making this season very "crown friendly" portraying Liz, Charles, Camilla, all very sympathetically.  its almost veering into propaganda, particularly the Diana/Dodi/MouMou episodes.   

Edited December 18, 2023 by Hanahope

[Spartan Girl]

Philip being a better grandfather than a father was the only thing I found remotely believable.