S02.E04: His Grace the Duke

[Carolina Girl]

3 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

That makes sense. He has business contacts. He is not above putting pressure on them for something that will make his wife happy. He could also have pitched it is good for their business. The opera is a chance to "accidentally" meet people that you want to discuss business with but can't get an appointment with them during the regular workday. 

I think that was set up pretty well in the first season and there is no reason to think that Bertha has changed dramatically now that her daughter is out in society. I think she is just as controlling as ever. The fact that Gladys was so surprised she was able to go to the theatre and the party after with not much of a fight when she was clearly expecting an argument is quite telling. 

YES! I was trying to find a way to say this while @AntFTW and @RachelKM did it perfectly. Jack is going to figure out a way to build a better alarm clock and will make an absolute fortune from it. He may never become as wealthy as the Russells, but he will be able to live very well and certainly be able to quit his current job. 

I'm wondering.....do we know if any major clock inventor started life as a footman?  I have visions of him starting the company that came to be known as "Timex."  

[norcalgal]

On 11/20/2023 at 12:59 AM, BellyLaughter said:

I can’t work out if I’m meant to hate Mrs Blaine or not?!  Like is she just lonely and genuine or horny and using Larry lol 

The thing I don’t understand is the way the relationship with Mrs. Blaine and Larry played out. The first one or two times we saw her, she came across as a cougar who could turn bunny boiler (there were posts here about this vibe she exuded). But somewhere along the way, the writers made a U-turn and had her genuinely love Larry and want what’s best for him. So this whole plot seemed like a complete waste of (screen)time.  

On 11/20/2023 at 6:59 AM, rollacoaster said:

Ok...Looooord, the Russell reunion got me tearing up over here! The raw emotion and passion between those two! His pleading for forgiveness! The way she exhaled and melted in relief in his embrace! 

And the scene where he blocked that server at the fancy dinner, "Mrs. Russell is exactly where she should be." And fixing all problems by throwing copious amounts of cash at them...

I hated my favorite couple being estranged. Sooooo happy they’re simpatico again and loved the scene of their reconciliation!  🥰

Edited November 22, 2023 by norcalgal

[norcalgal]

On 11/20/2023 at 10:31 AM, Sarah 103 said:

There's part of me that wishes we could have had that quick montage. I want to see what the old fashioned pre-telephone version of "The Telephone Hour" was like among the servants. 

ditto!  This would have been really funny!

 At this point, I do not see Larry and Marion as a romantic couple, but I do see them as friends. However, I would not rule out friends to lovers as possibility. 

Count me in on this as well.

I am so glad they are back together as the power couple I know and love. It's very strange to be rooting for him when he's trying to help Bertha succeed, and then in the same episode rooting against him when he's dealing with his employees/business matters. 

George’s duality is the best thing this show has done. He’s the character we simultaneously love but also hate. Well done JF!

Enid can't help him, but I can see Oscar doing it for the fun of it. Also, he may still want revenge because George did not allow him to court and marry Gladys. 

I could see S1 Oscar being petty and vindictive to want revenge against George, but they’ve de-villainized George in S2. Also, he seems preoccupied courting….uh, what’s-her-name and didn’t hold deep feelings for Gladys,  so from Oscar’s pov, why antagonize a powerful man like George?  Just to help out a mere acquaintance (Turner)?  Doesn’t sound likely.

 

[hoodooznoodooz]

I love when someone makes Bertha happy or smile. She looks completely guileless and purely joyful, like a young girl. 

[Affogato]

21 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I don't know where they're going with this. The subplots for the servants feel like afterthoughts to me. Jack's been working on this clock for three episodes now. That's his storyline? Fixing a clock? Is he going to wind up quitting his job as footman to open a clock shop?

Given Peggy's storyline, I'm guessing Jack will meet up with someone well known and possibly get a job with them, providing us with another bit of 'gilded age' history. It actually is possible he could be 'Jack Timex', of course.

[TV Diva Queen]

22 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I don't know where they're going with this. The subplots for the servants feel like afterthoughts to me. Jack's been working on this clock for three episodes now. That's his storyline? Fixing a clock? Is he going to wind up quitting his job as footman to open a clock shop?

I joke to myself and say "if this f*cker's last name winds up being Timex...I'm done with this show"  

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

Given Peggy's storyline, I'm guessing Jack will meet up with someone well known and possibly get a job with them, providing us with another bit of 'gilded age' history. It actually is possible he could be 'Jack Timex', of course.

sorry - just saw you post....great minds.  xo

[iMonrey]

22 hours ago, RachelKM said:

We started the show with the Russells in the last stage of their transition. Jack might be at the start of his. 

... Or, possibly, I just put 1000% more thought into this than anyone on the show. 

I think it's most likely the latter. I see little evidence the writers have any real interest in the servant characters. The odd little scene between Mrs. Bruce and the chef felt like the typical throwaway scene the servants get each week. I can't even remember what the chef's name is. Watson is the only one that has anything resembling an ongoing story - and I had to look up his name too! 

[chaifan]

Re: Jack Timex

I know some people are semi-joking about this, but I do hope Jack doesn't end up to be some famous clock/watch maker.  I'd just like his story to reflect the "land of opportunity" that America was seen as at the time, where it was possible for someone to go from servant class to a "higher" station in life.  And that it was socially acceptable to wish to do so.  I'm perfectly happy if he leaves the service industry to be just your average, everyday watch/clock repairman, or owns his own shop. 

That said, I was curious about the history of Timex, and the timeline doesn't match up.  (Not to mention, of course, there was no "Mr. Timex", and the brand name wasn't invented until 1941.)  I don't know if there was an actual American watch/clock maker at the time who would have any name recognition today.

 

[Tango64]

58 minutes ago, chaifan said:

I'd just like his story to reflect the "land of opportunity" that America was seen as at the time, where it was possible for someone to go from servant class to a "higher" station in life. 

I agree, though when Jack's opportunity is discussed it seems we talk of him as if he's in a lowly, dirty job just scraping by in the big city. He's a servant and certainly the upper class he serves looks down on that lot in life, but compared to other men his age in New York at the time he has a quite comfortable, stable, clean, safe job. He dresses and eats well, lives and works in a beautiful, opulent home, though of course his accomodations there are modest. Nothing wrong with wanting to move up, but it's not like he's shoveling coal down at the docks and is desperate for improvement. 

All that said, I still like the clock storyline and hope his immigrant family name is something Timmexius or Casioman. Perhaps his big revelation will be to strap a leather band to that clock and put it on his wrist.

 

[AntFTW]

Wait. We never learned Jack's last name??? 😱

[Affogato]

32 minutes ago, Tango64 said:

I agree, though when Jack's opportunity is discussed it seems we talk of him as if he's in a lowly, dirty job just scraping by in the big city. He's a servant and certainly the upper class he serves looks down on that lot in life, but compared to other men his age in New York at the time he has a quite comfortable, stable, clean, safe job. He dresses and eats well, lives and works in a beautiful, opulent home, though of course his accomodations there are modest. Nothing wrong with wanting to move up, but it's not like he's shoveling coal down at the docks and is desperate for improvement. 

All that said, I still like the clock storyline and hope his immigrant family name is something Timmexius or Casioman. Perhaps his big revelation will be to strap a leather band to that clock and put it on his wrist.

 

I think that the job may look more comfortable to us than it actually is, particularly if (like Jack) you want to raise a family. 

https://driehausmuseum.org/blog/view/below-americas-stairs-domestic-servants-in-the-gilded-age

Indicates that it wasn't quite the same as the british system and that the jobs weren't considered desirable. At least there was a lot of turnover and they weren't considered desirable jobs. 

[AntFTW]

6 minutes ago, Affogato said:

I think that the job may look more comfortable to us than it actually is, particularly if (like Jack) you want to raise a family. 

It doesn't even look all that comfortable to me. Just going off of the show, It doesn't seem like they have a life outside of work.

I'm thinking about Jack taking Bridget out last season. Also, the chef asking Ms. Bruce out to a concert in the park. It seems like you have very little chance to meet someone you might like outside of work.

[peeayebee]

 

2 hours ago, Tango64 said:

All that said, I still like the clock storyline and hope his immigrant family name is something Timmexius or Casioman. Perhaps his big revelation will be to strap a leather band to that clock and put it on his wrist.

I'm voting for Jack Swatch. He's ahead of his time (so to speak).

[chaifan]

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

I think that the job may look more comfortable to us than it actually is, particularly if (like Jack) you want to raise a family. 

https://driehausmuseum.org/blog/view/below-americas-stairs-domestic-servants-in-the-gilded-age

Indicates that it wasn't quite the same as the british system and that the jobs weren't considered desirable. At least there was a lot of turnover and they weren't considered desirable jobs. 

Nice article. Thanks for the link.  I think the difference in "permanence" of the position between the US and England is an important distinction, and that's what I'm hoping Jack's storyline shows.  That servants in the US were allowed to want to be more than a servant.

2 hours ago, Tango64 said:

He dresses and eats well, lives and works in a beautiful, opulent home, though of course his accomodations there are modest. Nothing wrong with wanting to move up, but it's not like he's shoveling coal down at the docks and is desperate for improvement. 

The big catch is that as a domestic servant, your "home" was linked to your job.  If you lost your job, you lost your home.  If you wanted to take another job, you'd have to have enough money saved (ha! good luck!) or earn enough to pay for a room immediately. 

And I'm not saying there's anything "wrong" with Jack's current position as a servant, but I'm hoping that this working on the alarm clock story line serves a purpose of showing the "land of opportunity" and that someone in the US could go from servant to a better position. 

[ChlcGal]

5 hours ago, AntFTW said:

Wait. We never learned Jack's last name??? 😱

Jack's last name is Trotter.  He said it last season when telling the story of his mother's death 

[TidalCreek]

Warning: Decidedly picky point ahead, read at your own risk. 😊

Ok, I’m just going to say it. Something about Peggy’s storyline kept bugging me and I wasn’t sure what it was until this week when she went down south.

While I really like the general story (her going down to Tuskegee, getting a first-hand look at the aftermath of slavery and the Civil War, wanting to flex her journalistic muscles, etc.) and I’m eager to see where it takes her, this is what bothers me: She’s supposed to be from Philadelphia (right? I think I remember that detail) but she talks with a distinctive southern accent and yet has never been to the south. Her mother and father had a tiny bit of a southern “twang,” but I attributed that to their having been in or near the south at some point in their lives. (Were they former slaves who moved north? Can’t recall.) But growing up with that influence shouldn’t have given Peggy SUCH a heavy southern accent (and hers is more pronounced than theirs).

This might seem like a tiny detail, but for someone from the south who notices accents (I’m from Charleston, and trust me, we do not talk like people from Georgia or Alabama or Mississippi or North Carolina, thank you very much – and I’m not being a snob, although being from the Grand Dame of the South requires that I should be when required😊).

Anyone else notice her accent, or is it just me?

 

[AntFTW]

15 minutes ago, TidalCreek said:

Warning: Decidedly picky point ahead, read at your own risk. 😊

Ok, I’m just going to say it. Something about Peggy’s storyline kept bugging me and I wasn’t sure what it was until this week when she went down south.

While I really like the general story (her going down to Tuskegee, getting a first-hand look at the aftermath of slavery and the Civil War, wanting to flex her journalistic muscles, etc.) and I’m eager to see where it takes her, this is what bothers me: She’s supposed to be from Philadelphia (right? I think I remember that detail) but she talks with a distinctive southern accent and yet has never been to the south. Her mother and father had a tiny bit of a southern “twang,” but I attributed that to their having been in or near the south at some point in their lives. (Were they former slaves who moved north? Can’t recall.) But growing up with that influence shouldn’t have given Peggy SUCH a heavy southern accent (and hers is more pronounced than theirs).

This might seem like a tiny detail, but for someone from the south who notices accents (I’m from Charleston, and trust me, we do not talk like people from Georgia or Alabama or Mississippi or North Carolina, thank you very much – and I’m not being a snob, although being from the Grand Dame of the South requires that I should be when required😊).

Anyone else notice her accent, or is it just me?

I can forgive that.... and the reason I can forgive that is because her parents are seemingly Southern. Obviously, her father is a former slave from the South. I assume her mother is also from the South because she says they moved up North to have a life they couldn't have in the South.

My parents are southern, not just geographically but also culturally. My parents are from Georgia, and so is the rest of my family. Thankfully, they moved to a city in Florida and had me. Growing up, people always said I talked like I was from "the country", which I didn't understand because I'm not "country" in any way, shape or form; and I didn't believe I sounded like someone from the country. If I did sound like I had a "southern twang", it definitely came from my parents.

[Tango64]

43 minutes ago, TidalCreek said:

Anyone else notice her accent, or is it just me?

This Georgia boy thought the same thing. If her parents retained strong Southern accents she might have certain words she pronounced like she heard from them and maybe a soft lilt of the South, but she likely would not sound like she grew up way down yonder. Someone should have suggested the actress dial it back a bit.

(A Charleston accent is probably my favorite. 🙂)

[AntFTW]

1 hour ago, TidalCreek said:

Warning: Decidedly picky point ahead, read at your own risk. 😊

Ok, I’m just going to say it. Something about Peggy’s storyline kept bugging me and I wasn’t sure what it was until this week when she went down south.

While I really like the general story (her going down to Tuskegee, getting a first-hand look at the aftermath of slavery and the Civil War, wanting to flex her journalistic muscles, etc.) and I’m eager to see where it takes her, this is what bothers me: She’s supposed to be from Philadelphia (right? I think I remember that detail) but she talks with a distinctive southern accent and yet has never been to the south. Her mother and father had a tiny bit of a southern “twang,” but I attributed that to their having been in or near the south at some point in their lives. (Were they former slaves who moved north? Can’t recall.) But growing up with that influence shouldn’t have given Peggy SUCH a heavy southern accent (and hers is more pronounced than theirs).

This might seem like a tiny detail, but for someone from the south who notices accents (I’m from Charleston, and trust me, we do not talk like people from Georgia or Alabama or Mississippi or North Carolina, thank you very much – and I’m not being a snob, although being from the Grand Dame of the South requires that I should be when required😊).

Anyone else notice her accent, or is it just me?

 

12 minutes ago, Tango64 said:

This Georgia boy thought the same thing. If her parents retained strong Southern accents she might have certain words she pronounced like she heard from them and maybe a soft lilt of the South, but she likely would not sound like she grew up way down yonder. Someone should have suggested the actress dial it back a bit.

(A Charleston accent is probably my favorite. 🙂)

I kinda think Mrs. Scott has more of a southern twang than Peggy 🤔

[Shermie]

Bertha, Gladys, Agnes, Ada, Enid. What we call “nursing home names”, although women with those names have mostly even aged out of nursing homes now. I remember when the couple on Mad About You named their baby Mabel and I just gagged. Just no.

Anyway, the show. I love the unabashed soapiness. Agnes’s sad little dinner for one was just desserts, sorry not sorry. If you’re going to be a joyless prig about everything, people don’t want to spend time with you.

As for the minister proposing so quickly. I’m hoping it’s not because he has nefarious intentions because I like Ada and want her to have some joy. I’m wondering if it’s because of the times and their age - they’re probably both very prim and proper (he because of his vocation and she because she’s so sheltered), and even a kiss would seem improper without some kind of formal commitment. 

Turner (or Mrs. Winterbottom or whatever her name is) sure moved up the society ladder quickly. I mean, she was a fired maid last season, which I assume is within a year in the show’s timeline. How would she get the money and connections to makeover herself and fool some rich old guy (and his friends) and get married within a year?

I don’t understand Mrs. Astor being so unconcerned about losing the Winterbottoms and their friends as patrons of their Academy. Seems the number of patrons is limited as is, and they’re losing them to the Met by the day. The incredible snobbishness of the Astors and their group is so weird, especially because it’s a true story. The Academy actually closes 3 years after the Met opens.

[peeayebee]

11 hours ago, TidalCreek said:

Anyone else notice her accent, or is it just me?

Actually, I did notice it but didn't think about it much, other than to say, Did she always sound like that?

I'll offer this explanation: Her growing up with parents who had Southern accents is a factor, but also many people unconsciously adopt an accent or way of speaking when they're around other people. For instance, whenever my mother came back to the States after visiting relatives in England, she always sounded more English.

[Affogato]

13 hours ago, Shermie said:

Bertha, Gladys, Agnes, Ada, Enid. What we call “nursing home names”, although women with those names have mostly even aged out of nursing homes now. I remember when the couple on Mad About You named their baby Mabel and I just gagged. Just no.

Anyway, the show. I love the unabashed soapiness. Agnes’s sad little dinner for one was just desserts, sorry not sorry. If you’re going to be a joyless prig about everything, people don’t want to spend time with you.

As for the minister proposing so quickly. I’m hoping it’s not because he has nefarious intentions because I like Ada and want her to have some joy. I’m wondering if it’s because of the times and their age - they’re probably both very prim and proper (he because of his vocation and she because she’s so sheltered), and even a kiss would seem improper without some kind of formal commitment. 

Turner (or Mrs. Winterbottom or whatever her name is) sure moved up the society ladder quickly. I mean, she was a fired maid last season, which I assume is within a year in the show’s timeline. How would she get the money and connections to makeover herself and fool some rich old guy (and his friends) and get married within a year?

I don’t understand Mrs. Astor being so unconcerned about losing the Winterbottoms and their friends as patrons of their Academy. Seems the number of patrons is limited as is, and they’re losing them to the Met by the day. The incredible snobbishness of the Astors and their group is so weird, especially because it’s a true story. The Academy actually closes 3 years after the Met opens.

It is a sign of our ages that those names sound like 'old lady' names. Many of them became popular again, names seem to do that.

I suspect that she went to Europe and met up with  him there, so he didn't meet or marry her in New York, where she would have been found out. We were told they married in Europe. 

He didn't seem too upset with the idea she might have worked as a companion, instead of a ladies maid, and I imagine she presented herself as a Ada or Marion--genteel and not too rich, with some out of date clothing of decent quality she might have acquired as a maid, and the knowhow to make those items go far, with different collars and accoutrements. 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Affogato

[Roseanna]

3 hours ago, Affogato said:

I imagine she presented herself as a Ada or Marion--genteel and not too rich, with some out of date clothing of decent quality she might have acquired as a maid, and the knowhow to make those items go far, with different collars and accoutrements. 

I would believe it if Turner had married a naive young man like Larry, but I find strange that an older gentleman like her husband wouldn't try to find out her background. 

Of course, we don't her background, either. Maybe her family lost their fortune and she was forced to work. In the first season she always thought to be better than other servants. 

[peeayebee]

I think Mr Winterton is simply trusting of his wife. She charmed him and used her feminine wiles to get him to propose. She swept him off his feet. She's good at being two-faced. He was taken in.

[oceanblue]

Larry's parents would have sussed out a fraud.  The old guy made his own decision and it was not with the big head.

[Sarah 103]

On 11/22/2023 at 12:04 PM, chaifan said:

I know some people are semi-joking about this, but I do hope Jack doesn't end up to be some famous clock/watch maker.  I'd just like his story to reflect the "land of opportunity" that America was seen as at the time, where it was possible for someone to go from servant class to a "higher" station in life.  And that it was socially acceptable to wish to do so.  I'm perfectly happy if he leaves the service industry to be just your average, everyday watch/clock repairman, or owns his own shop. 

Yes! This is exactly what I want/hope to happen with his storyline. I want him to ultimately be successful enough to have his own shop. 

On 11/22/2023 at 3:29 PM, chaifan said:

I think the difference in "permanence" of the position between the US and England is an important distinction, and that's what I'm hoping Jack's storyline shows.  That servants in the US were allowed to want to be more than a servant.

This is a crucial and important point. It explains Jack and also why most of the other servants seem supportive of him. They understand that being in service, especially for someone of Jack's generation, may not be a lifelong career. 

21 hours ago, Shermie said:

Bertha, Gladys, Agnes, Ada, Enid. What we call “nursing home names”, although women with those names have mostly even aged out of nursing homes now.

8 hours ago, Affogato said:

It is a sign of our ages that those names sound like 'old lady' names. Many of them became popular again, names seem to do that.

Names go in cycles. What for one generation is an old person name, to a slightly younger generation is a pretty name that you do not hear much any more. I would much prefer Ruby, Opal, and Pearl instead of the more modern names (like all the spellings of Caitlin or spelling "Brittany" with three "t"s or two "n"s)or something that looks like someone trying to come up with a name based on letters they drew while playing scrabble. 

[Roseanna]

On 11/23/2023 at 6:42 AM, Shermie said:

I don’t understand Mrs. Astor being so unconcerned about losing the Winterbottoms and their friends as patrons of their Academy. Seems the number of patrons is limited as is, and they’re losing them to the Met by the day. The incredible snobbishness of the Astors and their group is so weird, especially because it’s a true story. The Academy actually closes 3 years after the Met opens.

Mrs Astor can't know what happens in the future. The Academy has had a long list of "new money" people who had waited for years a box of their own, so she is confident that they will be happy now when they finally get it - i.e. that being socially accepted by the "old money" is more important to them than listening  Metropolitan's superior musical program. Not that such as Bertha cares for music, evidently Metropolitan can offer other benefits that helps it to win. 

[Roseanna]

On 11/22/2023 at 10:29 PM, chaifan said:

I'm hoping that this working on the alarm clock story line serves a purpose of showing the "land of opportunity" and that someone in the US could go from servant to a better position. 

I would rather like a plot where Jack made a invention but then he would be duped to give up his rights to it. 

[iMonrey]

21 hours ago, Affogato said:

It is a sign of our ages that those names sound like 'old lady' names. Many of them became popular again, names seem to do that.

Emily and Emma were two names I always thought of as old lady names when I was growing up. They really came back into popularity in the last 30 years or so.

[Affogato]

11 hours ago, Roseanna said:

I would rather like a plot where Jack made a invention but then he would be duped to give up his rights to it. 

Why do you hate Jack? 

I found a season 1 interview, but the actor makes the character sound so full of optimism...

https://hollywoodlife.com/2022/01/31/the-gilded-age-jack-treacher-ben-ahlers-season-1-interview/

[Roseanna]

10 hours ago, Affogato said:

Why do you hate Jack? 

I found a season 1 interview, but the actor makes the character sound so full of optimism...

https://hollywoodlife.com/2022/01/31/the-gilded-age-jack-treacher-ben-ahlers-season-1-interview/

I don't hate Jack. I only want his character be tested and tried. 

Generally, simply "success stories" seem trivial to me when compared f.ex. "Gold turned into sand" in the musical Kristina från Duvemåla, based on the immigrant epos of Vilhelm Moberg.   

Guldet Blev till Sand (with English captions) - YouTube

[Roseanna]

On 11/22/2023 at 5:52 AM, norcalgal said:

The thing I don’t understand is the way the relationship with Mrs. Blaine and Larry played out. The first one or two times we saw her, she came across as a cougar who could turn bunny boiler (there were posts here about this vibe she exuded). But somewhere along the way, the writers made a U-turn and had her genuinely love Larry and want what’s best for him. So this whole plot seemed like a complete waste of (screen)time.  

There was inconsistencies: Mrs Blaine began the affair in the manner that showed that she didn't intended it to be serious and appeared in public with him as if she didn't care a bit about her reputation. She seemed also to be jealous of Marian, so many predicted here a good reason that she would cause trouble to Larry if he wanted to end the affair before she did. But of course, we didn't know anything about her feelings.

However, do we know her feelings now? Maybe she only answered automatically "I love you too" when he declared his love? Maybe she didn't even believe he was serious - people sometimes say such things after making love. The only sure thing was that she didn't like that he didn't care about her reputation.

We don't even know if she had married him without Bertha's intervention - maybe she had, maybe she didn't after realizing that she enjoyed her freedom as a widow more (even if it lasted only a few years after which she would be considered too old to atract men).

As for "wanting what's best for him", Bertha appealed with reasons that were best for Mrs Blaine in the long run: would she want to lose Larry's love and see him waiting for her death as she had waited for her husband's death? 

[Affogato]

15 hours ago, Roseanna said:

I don't hate Jack. I only want his character be tested and tried. 

Generally, simply "success stories" seem trivial to me when compared f.ex. "Gold turned into sand" in the musical Kristina från Duvemåla, based on the immigrant epos of Vilhelm Moberg.   

Guldet Blev till Sand (with English captions) - YouTube

I was joking. 
 

the period had its share of both stories so I hope it becomes more than just a thing Jack does. 

[ProudMary]

On 11/22/2023 at 3:16 PM, peeayebee said:

I'm voting for Jack Swatch. He's ahead of his time (so to speak).

This may not be as far fetched as you might think. 

I've been thinking about classic American clock/watch companies. I remembered that my Mom had a beautiful Hamilton watch from the late 1930s so I looked up their history. 

[JenE4]

On 11/25/2023 at 3:43 AM, Roseanna said:

There was inconsistencies: Mrs Blaine began the affair in the manner that showed that she didn't intended it to be serious and appeared in public with him as if she didn't care a bit about her reputation. She seemed also to be jealous of Marian, so many predicted here a good reason that she would cause trouble to Larry if he wanted to end the affair before she did. But of course, we didn't know anything about her feelings.

However, do we know her feelings now? Maybe she only answered automatically "I love you too" when he declared his love? Maybe she didn't even believe he was serious - people sometimes say such things after making love. The only sure thing was that she didn't like that he didn't care about her reputation.

We don't even know if she had married him without Bertha's intervention - maybe she had, maybe she didn't after realizing that she enjoyed her freedom as a widow more (even if it lasted only a few years after which she would be considered too old to atract men).

As for "wanting what's best for him", Bertha appealed with reasons that were best for Mrs Blaine in the long run: would she want to lose Larry's love and see him waiting for her death as she had waited for her husband's death? 

My impression is that Mrs Blaine truly fell in love with Larry. She had been married to a much older man as her status marriage, and now that he kicked the bucket, girl was going to get hers with a dashing young buck. If she married someone 20 years older before, now she’s going for someone 20 years younger. We already have a long-established pattern on this show that when Bertha opposes you in social matters, you are going to lose big time. Mrs Blaine is terrified that Bertha is going to ruin her if she continues on with Larry. I feel that there’s something already precarious about her social standing that she’s staying in RI full-time, even in the off season instead of also living in NY. But maybe that was just a way to explain why we hadn’t met her yet, and she doesn’t have a husband who needs to be in the city because of work. But anyway, I think we are to believe her intentions with Larry are pure, and Bertha is the big impediment in their true love match. Will Larry defy her and pursue Mrs Blaine anyway? Also based on patterns of this show, pretty sure he will. Not sure whether Bertha just won the battle or the war there, but considering Larry is just getting started on the house and social season in RI is still underway, it’s a pretty good bet we will be seeing more of Larry and Mrs Blaine. Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if Mrs Blaine took up with Mrs Astor to get Larry more jobs on the RI mansions just to stick it to Bertha.  Or, conversely, if you don’t continue our relationship, I can’t have you working in my home. Then what’s Bertha going to do because either way it’s helping or hindering Larry establishing himself in business?

Edited November 26, 2023 by JenE4

[Roseanna]

1 hour ago, JenE4 said:

Will Larry defy her and pursue Mrs Blaine anyway? Also based on patterns of this show, pretty sure he will. Not sure whether Bertha just won the battle or the war there, but considering Larry is just getting started on the house and social season in RI is still underway, it’s a pretty good bet we will be seeing more of Larry and Mrs Blaine. Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if Mrs Blaine took up with Mrs Astor to get Larry more jobs on the RI mansions just to stick it to Bertha.  Or, conversely, if you don’t continue our relationship, I can’t have you working in my home. Then what’s Bertha going to do because either way it’s helping or hindering Larry establishing himself in business?

Larry doesn't know his mum's interference, from his POV Mrs Blaine decides to end the relationship on her own initiative. I can't like a man who doesn't respect the woman's "no" (but Fellowes has a tendency to such scenes like Pamuk and Mary's second husband show in Downton Abbey).

What has this couple common, except sex? 

[chaifan]

3 hours ago, JenE4 said:

My impression is that Mrs Blaine truly fell in love with Larry. She had been married to a much older man as her status marriage, and now that he kicked the bucket, girl was going to get hers with a dashing young buck.

By "status marriage", are you meaning that Mrs. Blaine, as a younger woman, purposely sought out a wealthy much older man?  (Like Turner.)  I don't know why, but for some reason I assumed her marriage was arranged, not chosen, and that part of the attraction to Larry is that she was choosing her suitor this time.  (And the age, and that he's hot...)  I don't know if she was truly in love with Larry, but I also think the affection - at whatever level you want to call it - was genuine.

 

2 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Larry doesn't know his mum's interference, from his POV Mrs Blaine decides to end the relationship on her own initiative.

Oh, he knows.  He knows his mom summoned Mrs. Blaine, and there was a conversation, and then Mrs. Blaine ends the relationship.  I'm sure he's put 2 + 2 together on this.  I'm hoping for a bit of fall out on that, a good fight scene between Bertha and Larry.  I mean, Bertha will win, of course, because she wasn't wrong in anything she said.  

 

 

[iMonrey]

5 hours ago, JenE4 said:

Not sure whether Bertha just won the battle or the war there, but considering Larry is just getting started on the house and social season in RI is still underway, it’s a pretty good bet we will be seeing more of Larry and Mrs Blaine.

Once the plans are drawn up and construction begins (which it has), there's very little left for the architect to do. If there's a structural problem that arises during construction, the construction foreman might need to contact the architect, but that's about it. It wouldn't necessarily require Larry to have any contact with Mrs. Blaine. But I suppose it's a good enough excuse, plot-wise, for them to have to see each other again.

[Scarlett45]

On 11/19/2023 at 8:57 PM, Straycat80 said:

Poor Larry, he was really in love with Mrs. Blaine, but his mother was right, she was too old for him and couldn’t give him an heir, which back then was important. Good episode tonight. 

I’m kind of terrifed she will become pregnant. She’s what? 38-42? And she was married to an old man for so many years HE may have been the reason she doesn’t have kids. Although I think she would do better falling for a Dashiell type- a guy in her peer group who’s a widower whom can socialize with her openly. She’s certainly pretty and wealthy enough to attract her pick of a guy 40-50 who’s handsome and on her social level. 

 

11 hours ago, chaifan said:

By "status marriage", are you meaning that Mrs. Blaine, as a younger woman, purposely sought out a wealthy much older man?  (Like Turner.)  I don't know why, but for some reason I assumed her marriage was arranged, not chosen, and that part of the attraction to Larry is that she was choosing her suitor this time.  (And the age, and that he's hot...)  I don't know if she was truly in love with Larry, but I also think the affection - at whatever level you want to call it - was genuine.

Likely she was married in her late teens or early 20s to an older man whom she didn’t enjoy being married to much. Not saying he was awful or abusive but it wasn’t personally fulfilling. Now she can do what she wants when she wants with her money. I do think her affection for Larry was genuine but she’s right, she’s still got more to lose. She has a lot of life left and doesn’t want to be shunned by society when this all blows up. 
 

 

[Scarlett45]

I forgot to state- if we are going to have scenes of sexual tension between Peggy and Thomas- let his wife leave him or something. I don’t like putting our Peggy in such a position. She’s been through enough, the last thing she needs is the scandal of being in a compromising position with her married boss!

[ferjy]

On 11/19/2023 at 10:36 PM, chaifan said:

Maybe I just truly don't get the "I've spent less than 10 hours in your presence, but I'm in love and know I want to spend the rest of my life with you".

Fastest courtship in the west! (Well, east.)

“Nice to meet you, Reverend Forté.”

“Oh look at this beautiful painting.”

“I do!”

I was expecting them to court for most of the season if anything was going to come of it.

I suppose the week after the wedding Ada will have a miracle baby. 😛

 

[Ilovepie]

On 11/20/2023 at 3:13 AM, BeatrixK said:

She is in the way of my dream of Marion and Larry falling in love and so she is a time waster if you ask me!  lol

You read my mind! Maybe this experience will help Larry mature and become the adult man that Marion needs? 😂

[Scarlett45]

On 11/27/2023 at 2:49 PM, ferjy said:

Fastest courtship in the west! (Well, east.)

“Nice to meet you, Reverend Forté.”

“Oh look at this beautiful painting.”

“I do!”

I was expecting them to court for most of the season if anything was going to come of it.

I suppose the week after the wedding Ada will have a miracle baby. 😛

 

I was expecting them to court for most of the season too. 
 

But hell no on the baby idea. 🤣

[Baltimore Betty]

On 11/26/2023 at 10:23 PM, Scarlett45 said:

I forgot to state- if we are going to have scenes of sexual tension between Peggy and Thomas- let his wife leave him or something. I don’t like putting our Peggy in such a position. She’s been through enough, the last thing she needs is the scandal of being in a compromising position with her married boss!

I had a thought about Thomas, I think he told Peggy he was married just to avoid any sort of entanglement because he is not up for a romance/heartache.

 

[Camera One]

Turner's husband was younger than I thought he'd be.  I thought it must have been someone ready to keel over any moment.

So now we have seen Bertha burn both of her children's love interests.  I don't feel badly for Larry.  Given they're the first couple we've seen unclothed in bed together, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a baby in the works.

Peggy's trip and the debate at the dinner table was interesting.  I too was shocked when the editor guy opened his door with his shirt off, though that whole half of the screen was blurry.  Once again, the most random moments in the episode were completely blurry for no reason.

I'm not sure what I think about Ada and the minister.  I do like seeing Ada happy and Marion helping her to meet up, but I don't feel much romantic chemistry yet and it's going too fast.  I can't see this show breaking up the two sisters living together.

The house is so small you can hear that kid's alarm clock ringing?  

The show is making me want to see Mrs. Astor and the Academy fail.  I expected to see Mr. Winterton ask Bertha about a box at the Met (and getting his friends to switch over) resolving the financial problems, but George somehow "handled" it.

What does Mrs. Astor think of Aurora spending so much time with Mrs. Russell?  I'm surprised she isn't asking Agnes to threaten her a little.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Camera One

[buckboard]

On 12/1/2023 at 3:57 AM, Baltimore Betty said:

I had a thought about Thomas, I think he told Peggy he was married just to avoid any sort of entanglement because he is not up for a romance/heartache.

 

The real life Fortune was very much married at the time.  He did separate from his wife, but not until 1908, much later than when the incident at Tuskegee took place.

But who knows what fictional take the storyline will follow.

Edited December 3, 2023 by buckboard

[ChiCricket]

On 11/20/2023 at 12:31 PM, Sarah 103 said:

There's part of me that wishes we could have had that quick montage. I want to see what the old fashioned pre-telephone

This made me think of this picture. It drove me nuts until I found it.

 I like to imagine this is like all the servants gossiping about Turner. 😁