S03.E03: Grab Your Hankies

[cardigirl]

17 hours ago, cardigirl said:

The understudy is Howard's love interest from season 2, I believe. So that puts Howard in line as a suspect, getting rid of the "star" so his true love could get a break. 

(Not sure if this is a theory I'm going to stick with, or if it's just a fleeting thought. 🤔)

Quoting myself here because I want to build on the theory ... 

4 hours ago, phalange said:

Ben was definitely talking to a plate of cookies and not a person who would've responded. It's looking like someone poisoned the cookies then had to kill him a second time at the Arconia, but that almost seems too obvious so I'm expecting another twist.

While I'm not sure I buy the "Ben-is-talking-to-cookies" theory completely, I wanted to add that Howard provided the cookies for the table read. So another link between Howard and the murder. 

Also, yes the table read and opening night are months apart, but at the table read, EVERYONE there became aware of Ben's cookie addiction, so they would know he wouldn't refuse a gift of a plate of cookies. 

Just some thoughts. 

 

[peeayebee]

I just realized that when Oliver did the voice of his mother, it was Jiminy Glick! 

I never thought that Martin Short would become my favorite performer on this show. 

[Juneau Gal]

2 hours ago, metaphor said:

Here. I've been listening to it on Spotify, and per the articles, it should be available on the various streaming services. 

Thank you. Listening to it without the visuals brings home how beautiful a song it truly is.

[aghst]

Wow Streep can sing, especially at her age.

But no way Loretta reads the lyrics for the first time and then belts it out with the invisible band accompaniment.

Then the Ashley Park character joins in the middle of the performance and hits high notes and they were in sync.

But it's great that they chose to integrate musical performances into this season.  I don't think Short has a musical background or is noted for singing is he?

Steve Martin and Selena Gomez obviously are known for their singing.  Would be kind of ironic if they didn't perform at some point.

Obviously they want to have Meryl Streep for the whole season but there's no way Loretta would pass up that TV deal.  Nor should she.

 

[shapeshifter]

2 minutes ago, aghst said:

But no way Loretta reads the lyrics for the first time and then belts it out with the invisible band accompaniment.
Then the Ashley Park character joins in the middle of the performance and hits high notes and they were in sync.
But it's great that they chose to integrate musical performances into this season.

Hah, I was so mesmerized that my suspension of disbelief did a veritable high wire act. 
But now that you've pointed out the impossibility of this performance, I can handwave those aspects as a substitute for we TV viewers not getting the effect of being in the room with the singers.

 

2 minutes ago, aghst said:

 I don't think Short has a musical background or is noted for singing is he?

Probably not? But I enjoyed Short's idiosyncratic way of holding notes — almost guttural, but smoother — kind of like the way I enjoy Bob Dylan's inharmonious singing. 

 

8 minutes ago, aghst said:

Steve Martin and Selena Gomez obviously are known for their singing.  Would be kind of ironic if they didn't perform at some point.

Good point. At least once each episode I catch a glimpse of the long fingernails on Steve Martin's banjo picking hand and picture him playing a tune.

Didn't Selena sing with the group at the end of a previous season?

 

[peeayebee]

Now I'll have to look at Steve Martin's hand for his cotton-picking' fingernails.

Martin Short has been in a few musicals.

[TakomaSnark]

6 hours ago, metaphor said:

Here. I've been listening to it on Spotify, and per the articles, it should be available on the various streaming services. 

I tried to find it on Spotify earlier today but no luck. What's the magic search term?

1 hour ago, aghst said:

But no way Loretta reads the lyrics for the first time and then belts it out with the invisible band accompaniment.

Then the Ashley Park character joins in the middle of the performance and hits high notes and they were in sync.

 

I thought it was a wonderful musical theatre moment. In real life, people don't just break out into song and dance as they do on stage either, but theatre asks you to suspend disbelief so it can produce magical emotional realism.

[Affogato]

13 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Another thing I missed (and I do apologize if someone brought it up and I missed it) but when Loretta brought up why Little Shop of Horrors was so successful, I had totally forgotten Steve Martin was in the movie as the dentist.

Yes, Martin played the role originated by Jack Nicholson....yes, I'd forgotten that, too.

6 hours ago, cardigirl said:

Quoting myself here because I want to build on the theory ... 

While I'm not sure I buy the "Ben-is-talking-to-cookies" theory completely, I wanted to add that Howard provided the cookies for the table read. So another link between Howard and the murder.

I am positive that the scene was written so that he absolutely could have been talking to a plate of cookies, and I'm absolutely sure that was deliberate. That does not mean he is talking to a plate of cookies.

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, aghst said:

But it's great that they chose to integrate musical performances into this season.  I don't think Short has a musical background or is noted for singing is he?

Martin Short sings and has been in musicals. In fact, he won a Tony for Best Lead Actor in a Musical in the 90s (nominated 1 other time) and was recently Lumiere in the live Beauty and The Beast. It might not be the first thing you think of when you think of him but he's no slouch in that department. 

14 minutes ago, Affogato said:

Yes, Martin played the role originated by Jack Nicholson....yes, I'd forgotten that, too.

Jack originated that part?  Now I learned something. 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Irlandesa

[Affogato]

13 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

Martin Short sings and has been in musicals. In fact, he won a Tony for Best Lead Actor in a Musical in the 90s (nominated 1 other time) and was recently Lumiere in the live Beauty and The Beast.

Jack originated that part?  Now I learned something. 

Actually, now that I think of it, Nicholson was the maschochistic dental patient, but very memorable, much more so than the original dentist.

Roger Corman's 1960s little shop of horrors is a good movie, in its own 'bad way and has an interesting story behind it.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Shop_of_Horrors. It has a different, more sober message than the musical and later movie,although it is a comedy

3 minutes ago, Affogato said:

 

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Affogato

[moonorchid]

4 hours ago, aghst said:

I don't think Short has a musical background or is noted for singing is he?

 

I had no idea but he actually does. I listened to his 2014 memoir recently “I Must Say” and he was a part of “Godspell” in the 70’s and done little bits of theater through out his career and just like to sing in general. 

[TakomaSnark]

15 minutes ago, moonorchid said:

I had no idea but he actually does. I listened to his 2014 memoir recently “I Must Say” and he was a part of “Godspell” in the 70’s and done little bits of theater through out his career and just like to sing in general. 

Godspell is a ground zero for great comedy actors.

 

 

[aghst]

22 minutes ago, moonorchid said:

I had no idea but he actually does. I listened to his 2014 memoir recently “I Must Say” and he was a part of “Godspell” in the 70’s and done little bits of theater through out his career and just like to sing in general. 

OK I guess I should have said Martin Short isn't known for music.

Or not as well known.

Neither is Steve Martin though obviously he's sung in his standup and in movies?  Or at least danced in them.

Selena started out as a musical artist but seems mostly an actress now.  She could probably sell records though if she recorded new music.

[chitowngirl]

1 hour ago, aghst said:

Neither is Steve Martin though obviously he's sung in his standup and in movies?  Or at least danced in them.

King Tut

[Yeah No]

38 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

King Tut

Beat me to it!!

[aghst]

58 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

King Tut

 

18 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Beat me to it!!

 

It's fun but is it really the best example of musical prowess?

 

[MisterGlass]

Steve Martin and the Steep Canyon Rangers Tiny Desk Concert.  And for a full range of his musical work, his Youtube channel.

ETA:  He also has a take on a murder ballad called Pretty Little One (some dark references).

Edited August 17, 2023 by MisterGlass

[Snazzy Daisy]

Easter Eggs:

The opening credit - a Death Rattle inspired lighthouse.

 

A Little Shop of Horrors reference for Steve Martin.

 

The Shining carpet pattern in Ben's penthouse - the twins theory?

 

A meta shot of Tobert.

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by Snazzy Daisy

[oldCJ]

On 8/15/2023 at 9:30 PM, ofmd said:

It reminded me of that song from The Rocky Horror Picture Show. "Touch-a touch-a touch-a touch me, I wanna be dirty.... Thrill me, fullfill me... Creature of the night!!"

Rocky Horror also has “There’s a Light” while OMITB has “Look for the Light”, both with harmonising melisma of the word light during the duet. It feels like too weird of a coincidence for the only two songs thus far from Death Rattle Razzle Dazzle to have lyrics from Rocky Horror Picture Show. 

If it is purposeful, then one could begin to wonder if “Science Fiction/Double Feature” from Rocky Horror was the inspiration for the crab men on the island. The film Attack of the Crab Monsters was part of an actual science fiction double feature. 

[AnimeMania]

Martin Short was in both seasons of the Musical Comedy TV Series Schmigadoon! on Apple TV+, I am almost positive that he was signing.

Selena Gomez just announced she is coming out with a new song today.

[DoctorAtomic]

On 8/14/2023 at 11:46 PM, redpencil said:

I think Ben is absolutely talking to a plate of cookies.

 

That was my guess on the second cut to Ben. He said something like "you're no good for me." 

 

[BaggythePanther]

18 hours ago, aghst said:

Selena started out as a musical artist but seems mostly an actress now.  She could probably sell records though if she recorded new music.

Selena started out on Barney then jumped to the Disney Channel as a teenager before she started singing. I’ve always thought of her as an actress who sings, funny to see others think the reverse.

 I thought Ben was speaking with Loretta. He had some real animosity towards her in the premiere and I’m waiting for that to come back into play. Wonder if Loretta and Ben’s brother were getting close (professionally) and Ben didn’t like it?

[Ilovepie]

On 8/15/2023 at 6:21 PM, Abra said:

Gut Milk sighting!

Not just Gut Milk - Gut Milk Zero!

I like coming here and hearing all of the theories - It never occurred to me about Ben talking to cookies. I don't really watch this show to try to figure it out. I just like the three of them. I miss the three of them working together on the podcast.

Loved the monologue about the gal from Duluth and the ear worm from a musical. Mean but true. The song was great, and Meryl Streep actually sounded good. I saw Mama Mia when it came out and thought her singing was pretty mediocre.

 

[chitowngirl]

My favorite video of Meryl singing

[SoWindsor]

Where did this cookie theory originate?

The show does feel like it lost the magic of the first 2 seasons. Separating the trio isn't working for me.

It seems like this is more a season about Meryl Streep than the trio. 

[Frost]

Quote

Speaking of, she is damn near stealing the show  [....  ]

I'm torn about Meryl Streep being on this season.  I think she is dominating the series so far and I don't like that.  Steve Martin hasn't really had anything to do so far.  I like the trio and I'm not happy about the fact that they've been physically separated for 3 episodes.

On the other hand, Meryl is wonderful as Loretta and the nanny ballad was amazing.  

I thought Meryl was going to be more of a cameo, not a main character.

[AnimeMania]

26 minutes ago, SoWindsor said:

Where did this cookie theory originate?

If you mean on this website, I said in the first post of the first episode.

[kay1864]

On 8/16/2023 at 4:57 AM, phalange said:

Loretta booking a show that's a spinoff of an offshoot of an offshoot of Grey's Anatomy

Omg it was clearly an offshoot of an offshoot of a Grey’s Anatomy spinoff, not a spinoff of an offshoot of an offshoot of Grey’s Anatomy.
 

I’ll bet you support the People’s Front of Judea. (splitters!)

[Yeah No]

2 hours ago, Frost said:

I'm torn about Meryl Streep being on this season.  I think she is dominating the series so far and I don't like that.  Steve Martin hasn't really had anything to do so far.  I like the trio and I'm not happy about the fact that they've been physically separated for 3 episodes.

On the other hand, Meryl is wonderful as Loretta and the nanny ballad was amazing.  

I thought Meryl was going to be more of a cameo, not a main character.

I was hoping she was going to be more of a supporting character like Nathan Lane was, not a main character.  That said, I thought she and Martin Short were wonderful both together and apart in this episode.  It's just too bad her inclusion appears  be coming at the expense of the prominence of the original main crew as a group.  Martin Short does appear to have a greater role than the other two this season so far.  I also feel torn about all of this.

Speaking of Nathan Lane, I just passed the theater where his new play "Pictures from Home" is playing.  It's too bad he couldn't be on this this season, although I just found out he will be on season 2 of "The Gilded Age".

 

 

[sistermagpie]

I haven't felt like Meryl Streep was dominating the show--not that I've really measured. Obviously her story is what starts the season so I think thematically her story (waiting her whole life for her break) is important, but I don't think she's taking time away from the main characters. The main characters would be separated anyway, because that's their story this season. Mable's alone and feeling lost and the two guys are unaware of how she feels. Charles had a romance the first season, now Oliver has one. Loretta might turn out to be an interesting contrast to Mable who's also getting a late start.

So I just assume they're establishing Loretta and her special place in the cast of the play as an older actress who never got her chance and as Oliver's love interest, and they're doing that early on while the the three main characters have grown apart so they can come back together again. Loretta's more important than Streep, because she's saying something about the time of life Charles and Oliver are at.

And, of course, she's also just important because while the three leads can all sing, the musical needs to be performed by the cast of Oliver's show, so this big musical number was going to be sung by Loretta. So while Loretta does seem like a more complex (meaning harder to pin down as quickly) character with more screen time than some other supporting roles on the show, I think the stories of the three leads would be the same even if she wasn't because of what they've already been through and where they are in the show at this point.

ETA: In fact, I won't be surprised if she's dead at the end of the season--and not as a murder victim.

Edited August 18, 2023 by sistermagpie

[ofmd]

I like Loretta (well, so far - she'll probably turn out to be awful) but I miss the Arconia and its weird denizens being front and center. Plus our trio of course.

I'm just not that interested in most of the theatre people or documentary dude. Maybe just too many new characters for me, and for such short seasons.

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

ETA: In fact, I won't be surprised if she's dead at the end of the season

All the above posts about Streep Fatigue also made me suspect Loretta may soon be among the departed — which makes me wonder how Selena Gomez as Mabel would render the Lighthouse song.

[AnimeMania]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

All the above posts about Streep Fatigue also made me suspect Loretta may soon be among the departed — which makes me wonder how Selena Gomez as Mabel would render the Lighthouse song.

Rather than Loretta dead, I prefer that she go off to her TV Show career, maybe Kimber puts something in her drink that keeps her from signing for a while and Loretta is forced to leave the production to do the TV Show.

[jsm1125]

Any idea if we’ll see Urusula this season? Though a background character, I liked her energy. 

[AgathaC]

I also haven’t really been bothered by Meryl or felt like she was taking over. Probably helped that she wasn’t even in episode 2. Hubby and I aren’t big fans. I don’t dislike her at all, just have no strong feelings about her. But that song. I liked it when we watched the episode last night. Loved it when I watched it this morning on YouTube. And was flat-out bawling the third time and feeling a strong urge to call my parents. So, I guess I would call that successful. 😉

As a lifelong musical fan (bordering on “nut”), I kind of love they’re turning the play into a musical. And I love it even more that, aside from the lullaby, it looks dreadful.

Count me among those who think Ben was talking to cookies. It sounded to me like it was supposed to make us think it was Loretta, which pushes me more to “It’s a twist and he’s talking to an inanimate object.”

As I said, I’m not a huge Streep fan, but I find myself getting more and more interested in her character. Is she a nice person finally getting her big break? Or does she have more than a little Eve Harrington in her?

[Frost]

Quote

Is she a nice person finally getting her big break? Or does she have more than a little Eve Harrington in her?

Wasn't the Nanny only supposed to have one line, in one scene, at the audition?   Loretta's part does seem to be growing steadily.

[aghst]

If they get someone like Meryl Streep, they're going to feature her as much as possible, as much as she wants to work, which could be all the episodes of the season or maybe half.

Streep probably wouldn't have signed on unless they showed her that she was going to play a major character in the season arc.

She's only done TV later in her career, probably not getting as many movie offers?

But also TV shows now have a season-long narrative, whereas 20-30 years ago, it was mostly broadcast network TV and they did standalone episodes, a couple dozen a year, with a lot of guest stars.  So movie stars might make a little cameo here and there but not sign on for multiple episodes as often as they do now.

[Arcey]

I'm not feeling this season so far. Too much going on with too many people. This episode felt like a hot mess to me. Jumped all over the place and didn't make a lot of sense.

No one's mentioned this so far, so I wonder if there was something wrong with my Hulu feed. When Meryl was singing, none of the words matched her lips, like a really, really bad lip syncing. I think with Kimber as well, but I mostly was watching Meryl/Loretta. The song was quite lovely, but I was so distracted, I could only see the bad lip syncing.

If I am the only one who's seeing this, how would something like that happen on Hulu?

Edited August 18, 2023 by Arcey
typing

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Arcey said:

I wonder if there was something wrong with my Hulu feed. When Meryl was singing, none of the words matched her lips, like a really, really bad lip syncing. I think with Kimber as well, but I mostly was watching Meryl/Loretta. The song was quite lovely, but I was so distracted, I could only see the bad lip syncing.

If I am the only one who's seeing this, how would something like that happen on Hulu?

Oooo. I hate when that happens. 
Thank goodness it didn't happen for me.

What device are you watching on?

[Arcey]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

What device are you watching on?

Samsung smart tv. I also have Roku I can use, but I like the TV remote better. I should watch it using Roku to see if that makes a difference.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Arcey said:

Samsung smart tv. I also have Roku I can use, but I like the TV remote better. I should watch it using Roku to see if that makes a difference.

It's worth a try.
I get different reception on my 2 Over The Air antennas that seems to switch back and forth with regards to what they can pull. 
But I do watch everything else on Roku TVs now, and sometimes there's a delay (not the speech, I don't think) from one to the other (if I'm doing laundry or something and have the same show on in both rooms). 
IDK. It doesn't seem like any of this could be sunspots or satellites or internet lag. 
Good luck! 
I think you'll really like it if you can get the synchronization worked out.

[Yeah No]

17 hours ago, aghst said:

If they get someone like Meryl Streep, they're going to feature her as much as possible, as much as she wants to work, which could be all the episodes of the season or maybe half.

Streep probably wouldn't have signed on unless they showed her that she was going to play a major character in the season arc.

She's only done TV later in her career, probably not getting as many movie offers?

I was thinking all the same things.  I'll bet she only agreed to this if she were a major character.  And I also think the show thought it needed something to keep the audience's interest like an actor even more major than Nathan Lane. 

I'm not a huge Streep fan.  I'll be honest, I don't know if I think she lives up to the hype although I think she can at times be a good actress.  I didn't especially love her as Julia Child, but I think she was better than the actress that played her on a recent TV series.  I do think she's capturing the creepy-kookiness that goes very well with this show so far.

[paramitch]

Ben's hidden-camera monologue, in full:

“You’re not supposed to be here. Go! No, you’re not gonna go, are you? You’re just gonna sit there, acting all sweet. We both know you’re bad. I want you. I want you so fucking bad. But you’re gonna ruin my career. And I’m gonna like it.”

So yeah. I agree that it is TOTALLY ABOUT COOKIES! 🤣

I enjoyed this one more than the last one, although the "Let's Put on a Musical!" aspect is driving me BONKERS, because there is no way on God's green earth that someone -- much less Oliver -- is writing music, lyrics, book, and score for a musical (even adapting from an existing stage play) in four months with major investors AND getting it performance- and stage-ready at the same time.

I've co-written two musicals and it takes a minimum of a year or two to even get to workshop phase at light speed. And another year or two to refine and get funding and move glacially into actual production, IF you ever get there. So I basically just sat here seething going "That's not how musicals work." "That's not how musicals work." "THAT'S NOT HOW MUSICALS WORK." AGGHGH!

Which I know is stupid of me and SUPER irritating, so I promise to get over this and shut up about it soon. But -- seriously -- Oliver is a director, not a songwriter, not a composer! Aghghgh. So his magically writing this gem (versus the schlocky very Oliver-believable "Creatures of the Night") bugged me. But it's lovely and Meryl and Ashley did a beautiful job on it. Still -- I almost believed the musical when it was a dumpster fire and an obvious failure. I'm just (probably overly) irritated at "Oliver pulls out a perfect sweet  Bareilles-esque lullaby" as an 11th-hour revelation.

So obviously they're just pulling our legs with this stuff and I need to get over it. 

Also, Bareilles co-wrote "Look for the Light" with songwriters/producers Benj Pasek & Justin Paul, who are known for Greatest Showman and won an Oscar for La La Land (they won it for "City of Stars," but I still think "The Fools Who Dream" should have won instead). They are also multiple Tony winners for Dear Evan Hansen. So it's interesting that it is melodically so very Waitress-esque. 

On 8/15/2023 at 12:45 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Glad that Oliver did apologize for his outburst to Loretta about not letting her out of her contract.  It's easy to forget that underneath all of the enthusiasm, outlandish behavior, and general Martin Short-ness of everything that Oliver really is someone who once he its attached to something or someone, he can be really lash out and be insecure if things go in unexpected directions.

I was angry with Oliver there -- she had the chance at a regular role on a major TV show, a role with the kind of financial stability actors never get (even just for the pilot, if we're pretending it was a Shondaland-type thing), and he was a total ass about it. I appreciated that he apologized, but it was really not a good look for him.

On 8/15/2023 at 8:36 AM, peeayebee said:

I thought the best part was the monologue Donna did. It was awesome. 

Donna's monologue was fabulous. Cruel, but fabulous:

“You need a showstopper. That’s how musicals make money. A song so irresistible it's like a syringe that shoots from Broadway straight into the neck of Debbie from Duluth. Who becomes an addict from the first second she hears it during girls' night out at the Calorie Pit. And an addict will do anything—anything—to get her fix. Even if she has to take a middle seat on a red-eye to New York City, where, for the low, low price of everything she’s got, Debbie can have the privilege of sitting in the finest rear balcony seat in all the land to finally, finally see that show with that song she can’t stop belting out all over fucking Duluth.

"So. Do you have anything that good. Do you have a showstopper?”

On 8/15/2023 at 11:10 AM, Phebemarie said:

It reminded me a little of a song from the Jekyl and Hyde musical.  

To me, "Creatures of the Night" sounds very classic Sherman Brothers-like, like an angry version of "Chim-Chim-Cheree," right down to the galloping piano and waltz tempo (with some bad Phantom/Jekyll & Hyde lyric pastiches thrown in).

On 8/15/2023 at 12:23 PM, tennisgurl said:

The meta commentary about liking the first season of the podcast more and then later about how they wont do three female killers in a row were quite funny, it does certainly make me wonder. 

"Nothing unites people like a common enemy. Or a good cheese plate."

I laughed out loud at both of those, too.

On 8/15/2023 at 3:11 PM, shapeshifter said:

Tobert would have filmed the baby elephant dying without rendering assistance = possibility of Tobert being a cold blooded killer…

I DEFINITELY think that the Tobert story was meant to imply that Tobert saw Ben die, and he sat there and filmed it because his ambition won out over his humanity.

On 8/15/2023 at 4:57 PM, ajsnaves said:

My theory, there are multiple killers. As there are multiple “Bens.” 3 in fact.  And their names are Ben, Glen, and Roy. Loretta killed “Ben” on opening night at the theater.  Probably with the cookies he’s talking to in the video.  After he was killed, “Glen” took his place. “Glen” was killed by Dickie in the Arconia.  That is why he was apologizing in the penthouse while Mable and Tobert were listening from the confessional, I mean armoire. In around Episode 6, “Roy” will turn up. The big reveal will involve the three bassinets in Oliver’s apartment. 

Possible twist. “Glen” and “Roy” were the ones who were murdered.  And Dickie is really “Ben.”. They were triplets hired by Brazzos because they could work more hours by swapping them out. 

This is AMAZING! Amazing.

On 8/15/2023 at 7:07 PM, LADreamr said:

It's possible that Ben didn't snatch the camera away from Tobert, but that Tobert actually planted it in his dressing room.  For whatever reason, having his own plan to make a documentary about Ben's death, rather than his premier on Broadway.

I think this too, 100%.

On 8/15/2023 at 9:42 PM, shapeshifter said:

Jesse Williams (Tobert) is 42; Selena Gomez (Mabel) is 31.
So, yeah, he is "a little" old for her, unless he's supposed to be, maybe, 35-37-ish?

Yeah, I get so damn tired of this trope. But I'll wait and see. Tobert is kind of charming (and very attractive), so -- who knows.

On 8/15/2023 at 9:52 PM, moonorchid said:

Speaking of Martin Short, we are only 3 eps in and he is KILLING! From all angles! In so many ways, this show is tailor made for Martin Short! He actually has been a very well rounded actor his entire career and it truly feels like finally he has a project that lets him tap into that. I am buying him being funny, being dramatic, and being a romantic lead…who saw that chemistry with Meryl Streep coming? Lol. 

I adore Martin Short, and I love him in this role. I agree that he's doing amazing things with it, even if I still find it so hard to believe that Oliver is really, truly supposed to be straight. 

On 8/16/2023 at 1:57 AM, phalange said:

When Charles talked about everyone bringing their hankies, everyone agreed except for Bobo, I think. 

Bobo definitely did not agree! I noticed that too. Hmm...

On 8/16/2023 at 6:35 AM, cardigirl said:

While I'm not sure I buy the "Ben-is-talking-to-cookies" theory completely, I wanted to add that Howard provided the cookies for the table read. So another link between Howard and the murder. 

Great observation! 

On 8/16/2023 at 6:39 AM, peeayebee said:

I just realized that when Oliver did the voice of his mother, it was Jiminy Glick! 

I love and adore Martin Short. I hate Jimmy Glick, whose entire schtick seems to be "I'm fat so I'm funny."

On 8/16/2023 at 11:30 AM, aghst said:

Wow Streep can sing, especially at her age.

She started out doing musicals and plays with music off Broadway way back before she made it big, most notably Secret Service and Alice at the Palace, etc.

On 8/16/2023 at 1:29 PM, Irlandesa said:

Martin Short sings and has been in musicals. In fact, he won a Tony for Best Lead Actor in a Musical in the 90s (nominated 1 other time) and was recently Lumiere in the live Beauty and The Beast. It might not be the first thing you think of when you think of him but he's no slouch in that department. 

Yeah, it is pretty funny to me how all the major players involved with this show has been heavily involved with Broadway or major musicals for TV and film! I feel like they're definitely pulling out leg with some of this Broadway stuff this season (but lovingly).

On 8/16/2023 at 3:54 PM, moonorchid said:

I had no idea but he actually does. I listened to his 2014 memoir recently “I Must Say” and he was a part of “Godspell” in the 70’s and done little bits of theater through out his career and just like to sing in general. 

Oh, I loved I Must Say. And the ending had me genuinely choked up.

On 8/16/2023 at 4:18 PM, aghst said:

OK I guess I should have said Martin Short isn't known for music.

Or not as well known.

Neither is Steve Martin though obviously he's sung in his standup and in movies?  Or at least danced in them.

Selena started out as a musical artist but seems mostly an actress now.  She could probably sell records though if she recorded new music.

If it helps, Martin Short is a Tony winner who has done half a dozen musical projects over the past 40-50 years, while Steve Martin is a multiple Grammy-winning songwriter, performer, Tony nominee, and Drama Desk Award winner who also co-created the lovely multiple Tony nominee (but short-lived) Bright Star (with Edie Brickell) plus Picasso at the Lapine Agile and Meteor Shower. Plus bonus points for singing the Dentist song in Little Shop! And Selena of course is a music superstar.

On 8/16/2023 at 7:07 PM, MisterGlass said:

Steve Martin and the Steep Canyon Rangers Tiny Desk Concert.  And for a full range of his musical work, his Youtube channel.

ETA:  He also has a take on a murder ballad called Pretty Little One (some dark references).

Thank you for linking these! Steve is a true Renaissance man. He has really inspired me with all the different things he's done -- he's an amazing writer, actor, performer, musician, songwriter, art collector/enthusiast, etc. He can pretty much do anything.

On 8/17/2023 at 9:40 PM, sistermagpie said:

In fact, I won't be surprised if [Loretta's] dead at the end of the season--and not as a murder victim.

This!! I ABSOLUTELY think Loretta will be kicking the bucket before the season's ending. It's written all over her. Right after she's pinpointed as being the murderer, has one more triumphant solo, and proclaims her love for Oliver.

On 8/18/2023 at 2:59 AM, shapeshifter said:

All the above posts about Streep Fatigue also made me suspect Loretta may soon be among the departed — which makes me wonder how Selena Gomez as Mabel would render the Lighthouse song.

Aw... that would be kind of lovely to hear, though.

[chitowngirl]

18 hours ago, Arcey said:

No one's mentioned this so far, so I wonder if there was something wrong with my Hulu feed. When Meryl was singing, none of the words matched her lips, like a really, really bad lip syncing. I think with Kimber as well, but I mostly was watching Meryl/Loretta. The song was quite lovely, but I was so distracted, I could only see the bad lip syncing.

If I am the only one who's seeing this, how would something like that happen on Hulu?

If you haven’t fixed the problem yet, try exiting out to the menu and then resume watching. Sometimes that resets everything and synchs it.

[peeayebee]

2 hours ago, paramitch said:

I enjoyed this one more than the last one, although the "Let's Put on a Musical!" aspect is driving me BONKERS, because there is no way on God's green earth that someone -- much less Oliver -- is writing music, lyrics, book, and score for a musical (even adapting from an existing stage play) in four months with major investors AND getting it performance- and stage-ready at the same time.

I've co-written two musicals and it takes a minimum of a year or two to even get to workshop phase at light speed. And another year or two to refine and get funding and move glacially into actual production, IF you ever get there. So I basically just sat here seething going "That's not how musicals work." "That's not how musicals work." "THAT'S NOT HOW MUSICALS WORK." AGGHGH!

Which I know is stupid of me and SUPER irritating, so I promise to get over this and shut up about it soon. But -- seriously -- Oliver is a director, not a songwriter, not a composer! Aghghgh. So his magically writing this gem (versus the schlocky very Oliver-believable "Creatures of the Night") bugged me. But it's lovely and Meryl and Ashley did a beautiful job on it. Still -- I almost believed the musical when it was a dumpster fire and an obvious failure. I'm just (probably overly) irritated at "Oliver pulls out a perfect sweet  Bareilles-esque lullaby" as an 11th-hour revelation.

So obviously they're just pulling our legs with this stuff and I need to get over it. 

Disbelief.... SUSPENDED!

 

Quote

 

Donna's monologue was fabulous. Cruel, but fabulous:

“You need a showstopper. That’s how musicals make money. A song so irresistible it's like a syringe that shoots from Broadway straight into the neck of Debbie from Duluth. Who becomes an addict from the first second she hears it during girls' night out at the Calorie Pit. And an addict will do anything—anything—to get her fix. Even if she has to take a middle seat on a red-eye to New York City, where, for the low, low price of everything she’s got, Debbie can have the privilege of sitting in the finest rear balcony seat in all the land to finally, finally see that show with that song she can’t stop belting out all over fucking Duluth.

"So. Do you have anything that good. Do you have a showstopper?”

 

Thanks for transcribing that. Great writing and great delivery.

 

Quote

I love and adore Martin Short. I hate Jimmy Glick, whose entire schtick seems to be "I'm fat so I'm funny."

I generally found Jiminy Glick to be hilarious, but I didn't like the physical shtick he did in the interviews, like falling off his chair and then awkwardly getting back onto it. I don't remember his size being a major part of the comedy.

 

 

[chaifan]

13 hours ago, paramitch said:

there is no way on God's green earth that someone -- much less Oliver -- is writing music, lyrics, book, and score for a musical (even adapting from an existing stage play) in four months with major investors AND getting it performance- and stage-ready at the same time.

Not to mention getting the rights to Death Rattle.  I don't think Oliver wrote it, he was just directing.

 

On 8/15/2023 at 7:57 PM, ajsnaves said:

My theory, there are multiple killers. As there are multiple “Bens.” 3 in fact.  And their names are Ben, Glen, and Roy.

This matches with the baby going from 1 to three. Triplets abound!

 

[sjankis630]

On 8/16/2023 at 3:07 PM, peeayebee said:

Martin Short has been in a few musicals.

Yes indeed. I had no idea until I read his autobiography " I Must Say"

He started out in Godspell up in Canada starring with Eugene Levy, Gilda Radner, Andrea Martin, and Paul Schaffer.

They all starred in "Godspell." Then they became comedy legends

[cardigirl]

So ... my initial reaction to this episode  was that I didn't enjoy it as much as the first two, but upon re-watching it, I enjoyed it much more. Oliver shutting himself in the kitchen so he could rant "You're screwed, Putnam!" was hilarious. I laughed out loud at that scene! 🤣 

I still found the conversation between Mabel and Tobert weird, and the way Jesse was delivering his lines was so very monotone. I was bored. 

I ended up really liking the lullaby on the second viewing. Very pretty. 
 

 

[chaifan]

7 hours ago, cardigirl said:

I still found the conversation between Mabel and Tobert weird, and the way Jesse was delivering his lines was so very monotone. I was bored. 

I agree with all of this.  It was fine that it was weird in the beginning, since they were both lying to each other about why they were in the penthouse.  Also, if you're hiding in an armoire because someone else is in the apartment, why the hell are you having a conversation at all??? 

It's nice to see Mabel with people (sort of) her own age, but I really enjoy her so much more when she's with Oliver and/or Charles. 

 

[Milburn Stone]

I hate it when a show wants me to feel something when every fibre of my being feels the opposite. Case in point, the nanny song. It could not have been more generic. A blend of two songs associated with a certain other nanny (Chim Chim Cheree and Feed the Birds) filtered through the modern-day-Broadway machine to produce some sort of 3D-printed, denatured, ersatz nothing.

If the intent of the sequence had been for us to understand the song was terrible and all the Rattle community were fools for loving it, I would have been all-in with the satire of what passes for art these days. That clearly was not the intent.