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S02.E06: Lost in Translation

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RachelKM

RachelKM

I'm a sucker for this show. I loved this episode. I'm sure someone will point out it's flaws. But for now, I'm just enjoying the feeling this episode gave me, and not just for the Kirk/Uhura/Spock moment at the end.

Is it weird that however much I'm positively dispose though indifferent to Spock and Chapel, I am 100% shipping Kirk* and La'an? 

Not sure how I feel about the Kirk brothers sibling stuff. It wasn't bothersome. It just felt out of step or discordant with the rest of the episode.  The rest was lovely and that felt a touch out of place. I did enjoy the running theme of Sam's carelessness with cleaning up after himself annoying Spock. 

I absolutely loved all the acknowledgements of Hemmer. He was wonderful and his absence should be felt by the crew for a while.

* For me, "Kirk" will always refer to James T. Sam is Sam. No disrespect to Sam. It's just that my brain won't process them in any other way.

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baldryanr

baldryanr

(edited)

The continuity police should be happy with this one - I think it was always assumed that Kirk only met Pike when he was promoted to Fleet Captain and therefore handing off the Enterprise, but those two going hand in hand was never explicitly confirmed. 

That being said, I'm not sure why Starfleet gave him a temporary promotion instead of just telling everyone that Pike's in charge.  We've seen other instances of Picard, Sisko, etc. taking charge of a group.

Edited by baldryanr
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tv-talk

tv-talk

The Devil in the Dark redux 5.0 as Trek has done this story many times, surely my fav episode of the season so far. Kirk, Spock, and Uhura at the end was just perfect, and yes I will happily cop to being more interested in those characters than La/an, Uhna, Ortega et al. Jim "Kirk" Carrey isnt Chris Pine but still doing a solid job as young Kirk within the framework of this show.

  • Like 6
ofmd

ofmd

A well done episode, marred for me by the fact that I really, really dislike this Kirk. Really. I've tried, honestly. So that final scene I'm sure I'm supposed to find iconic fell flat for me. Nice colors though, and a fun bar.

I've come to like Sam (and wished he'd decked his brother in the end instead of telling him how proud he was... alas) and also the new engineer (forgot her name).

To have both Uhura and Una deal with their grief for Hemmer - after 5 episodes - felt a bit forced to me.

And boy, do they like their romance subplots!

Celia Gooding did great, and it was nice to "see" Hemmer again.

  • Like 2
marinw

marinw

(edited)
2 hours ago, tv-talk said:

The Devil in the Dark redux 5.0 as Trek has done this story many times,

Yep. Refining and mining is never going to be without some consequences. It was nice that Pike listened to Uhura. 

So this Enterprise has something akin to 10 Forward.

This episode made me smile and gave me a nice Trek hug.

Edited by marinw
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kay1864

kay1864

- 235 years from now, will they even know the term “gas station”?

- If only the Enterprise had security personnel who could go after a rogue officer before they blow a hole in the ship. And Uhura hesitates because… her phaser doesn’t have a Stun setting?

- Sickbay has more than one nurse!

- Pike destroys the refinery based on the word of a hallucinogenic communications officer. At the least, Kirk could have presented him the brain scans on the iPad supporting that…but gee, that would have slowed the plot down wouldn’t it?

Season 2 has been simply great, but this episode was not.

  • Like 7
historylover820

historylover820

Join me in those who liked this one. Can I have a seat?

Not entirely sure we needed Kirk in this one (and I agree -- James Kirk can only be "Kirk." George Samuel Kirk is "Sam." Sorry, Sam.) But the more I see Paul Wesley, the more I like him. Even though I kind of hated Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow. But I like him.

And I have absolutely no issues with Kirk and Pike meeting now. Even though, yes, not sure why a temporary Fleet Commander. I've heard of battlefield promotions, but this wasn't battlefield. Not really. But, the meeting is absolutely valid and doesn't muck up canon (although, I did say last week that I've given up tying SNW into TOS).

I'm OK with both Una and Uhura dealing with their grief over Hemmer now (and, boy, that appearance of zombie Hemmer in the turbolift--talk about a jump scare! I about hit the ceiling! Una was now thrown in to deal with Pelia (who, I agree above -- she didn't completely annoy me. But I still hate the accent Carol Kane is putting on), and she's needing to get over her grudge against getting the C on her paper and dealing with the loss of her friend. Plus, Una's been a little busy since Hemmer's death. Uhura obviously hasn't dealt well with death in the past and it manifests itself now.

Yeah, it has flaws. Again, I'm not entirely sure we needed Kirk in the mix, particularly since we never see the Farragut, but I liked him being there.

23 minutes ago, Prevailing Wind said:

While I really liked this episode, that DID take me out of the story. And they mentioned it more than once.

Eh. We still have phrases like "put the cart before the horse" and "sleep tight." Historical phrases that are in every day language that are not longer current. These kinds of things don't bother me.

  • Like 14
Stardancer Supreme

Stardancer Supreme

2 hours ago, historylover820 said:

Join me in those who liked this one. Can I have a seat?

 

Sure! Pulling up my chair right now.  I am basking in the warm and fuzzy feelings on this episode.

The canon forever folk should be a little less hostile this week as we see the beginnings of TOS with the formation of Kirk, Uhura, and Spock.  I liked the story of the week and I will admit to catching on to the deuterium aliens attempting to "communicate" with Uhura about their pressing issues faster than she did. If you are the only one hearing them, they were trying to talk to you!  

Anyway, I felt the emotional beats in between the story with Sam, Kirk, Uhura, La'an, Pelia, and Una was well done.  Clearly something will happen to Sam that informs Kirk's continual Starfleet traumas, Uhura finally deals with the deaths of her family and Hemmer, Spock is trying to enjoy this brief dalliance with Chapel but he can't, La'an faces being the only one who had the knowledge of the temporal adventure with AlternateKirk that she can't really talk about, and Una resents Pelia for replacing her friend.  Pike, Ortegas, and M'Benga got a few words in and that pretty much covers the whole crew.

I love that Spock will forever hate Sam for being messy. I saw that Vulcan eye roll!

Sibling rivalry is a bitch. Will we get to see the great George Kirk at least once? This looks like shades of the LaForge daughters grappling with their father's legacy and each other.

Kirk seeing Spock and Chapel's chess game and commenting on it was a nice little throw back to his skills we saw before.

I am truly enjoying what we are getting in this series.

 

  • Like 10
paulvdb

paulvdb

41 minutes ago, CarpeFelis said:

Anachronisms like this have been bugging me. Especially in cases where someone’s favorite song is something we, the audience, are familiar with. Anyone here have a favorite song that’s from 200+ years ago?

Mine's not, but there are people who love classical music from composers like Mozart and Bach. So I guess my question would be which present day songs people will still love 200+ years from now.

  • Like 6
giovannif7

giovannif7

(edited)
58 minutes ago, CarpeFelis said:

Anachronisms like this have been bugging me. Especially in cases where someone’s favorite song is something we, the audience, are familiar with. Anyone here have a favorite song that’s from 200+ years ago?

[soapbox] I have a lot of favorites from the baroque and classical periods of the 1700s that I listen to regularly, by composers like Mozart, Bach, Haydn and Beethoven. Even if people don't know the names of the compositions (like Für Elise, Rondo Alla Turca and Toccata and Fugue in D Minor), many recognize the melodies when they hear them and are familiar with the composers. I have no problem believing that a future character can develop a love of specific songs or types/styles of music from centuries earlier. One of the tragedies of the elimination of the teaching of music and the arts in schools has been the loss of knowledge/appreciation for popular classics of the past. I would love to think that this mistake will be remedied at some point in the future, and people will once again open their minds and appreciate great music, regardless of the style or when it was popular. [/soapbox]

Edited by giovannif7
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thuganomics85

thuganomics85

I'm choosing to believe that Spock and Chapel were still just playing that chess game the entire time, since we never really saw them involved with the main arc.  It must have been intense!

Glad to get an Uhura-centric episode here and Celia Rose Gooding really got a lot of moments to shine.  I liked that they revisited Hemmer and reminding us how close they were and why she would be effected by his death going forward (especially since she witnessed the end.)  The stuff about her family was sad as well.  Not sure how much of this is inline with the Uhura from the original series, but I liked it.

Kirk is back and I thought this was the best use of him yet.  Still feeling out Paul Wesley in this role, but I felt like he interacted better with Gooding compared to La'an/Christina Chong from episode three.  And the stuff with him and Samuel is pure sibling drama, heh.  Nothing against the actor playing Sam, but the Vampire Diaries viewer in me is now picturing Ian Somerhalder in that role and getting more Salvatore banter and arguments in space (at least Wesley gets to change it up and mainly be the instigator here!)

Still not wild about Pelia, but the scene with her and Una mainly worked.

I kind of wanted to see Pike actually tell the admiral "Okay, look!  I did blow up the refinery and it might seem on the surface that I did that just on the word of one of my possibly hallucinating officers, but there is more to it than that!"  But if anyone would find the words to pull that off, it would be him!

I guess I'm that big of a sucker, because them ending the episode with this version of Spock, Kirk, and Uhura was a great moment.  Here's to them repeating that once Bones, Scotty, Sulu, and Chekov join the gang (fingers crossed!)

  • Like 3
marinw

marinw

(edited)

Oh Number One, when your Engineer gets a "funny feeling" or somesuch best to respect their instincts. Scotty and LaForge were (will be?)  great examples. There was that great talk between Geordi and Data in "The Defector" of how instinct and gut feelings are the result of all you experience and knowledge, not a contradiction to hard facts.

Edited by marinw
  • Like 5
Chicago Redshirt

Chicago Redshirt

8 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

Anachronisms like this have been bugging me. Especially in cases where someone’s favorite song is something we, the audience, are familiar with. Anyone here have a favorite song that’s from 200+ years ago?

I'm sure there are a bunch of classical fans who love Mozart or Beethoven or whoever, so yes.

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Starchild

Starchild

10 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

Kirk seeing Spock and Chapel's chess game and commenting on it was a nice little throw back to his skills we saw before.

I thought I heard dialogue in TOS that suggested Kirk learned from Spock. But I suppose it doesn't have to mean he learned from the beginning, only that Spock helped to sharpen Kirk's skills.

 

9 hours ago, giovannif7 said:

[soapbox] I have a lot of favorites from the baroque and classical periods of the 1700s that I listen to regularly, by composers like Mozart, Bach, Haydn and Beethoven. Even if people don't know the names of the compositions (like Für Elise, Rondo Alla Turca and Toccata and Fugue in D Minor), many recognize the melodies when they hear them and are familiar with the composers. I have no problem believing that a future character can develop a love of specific songs or types/styles of music from centuries earlier. One of the tragedies of the elimination of the teaching of music and the arts in schools has been the loss of knowledge/appreciation for popular classics of the past. I would love to think that this mistake will be remedied at some point in the future, and people will once again open their minds and appreciate great music, regardless of the style or when it was popular. [/soapbox]

One of my guilty pleasures is watching a reaction video on YouTube, where a young person who's never heard music from my generation listens to it for the first time. Their faces when they hear someone like Karen Carpenter for the first time is everything. And inevitably there's the comment about "no autotune back then."

  • Like 7
TVbitch

TVbitch

I'm pretty sure that was the alien who sang the intro on the Beastie Boys "Intergalactic" 🤣 ... "Intergalactic, planetary, planetary, intergalactic."

Regarding gas station: It did sound funny, but I am currently reading "The Wager," a brilliant nonfiction book about a British warship in the 1740s (fighting the Spanish and their own captain!) and there are lots of phrases we still use in everyday conversation that originated on these sailing vessels. I had no idea.  

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paigow

paigow

9 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

Regarding gas station: It did sound funny, but I am currently reading "The Wager," a brilliant nonfiction book about a British warship in the 1740s (fighting the Spanish and their own captain!) and there are lots of phrases we still use in everyday conversation that originated on these sailing vessels. I had no idea.  

Gene Roddenberry used Horatio Hornblower as the foundation for creating Kirk

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QuantumMechanic

QuantumMechanic

(edited)
5 hours ago, marinw said:

Oh Number One, when your Engineer gets a "funny feeling" or somesuch best to respect their instincts. Scotty and LaForge were (will be?)  great examples. There was that great talk between Geordi and Data in "The Defector" of how instinct and gut feelings are the result of all you experience and knowledge, not a contradiction to hard facts.

Or Scotty in "That Which Survives".  Enterprise would have blown up if he didn't pay attention to his instincts.

2 hours ago, Starchild said:

One of my guilty pleasures is watching a reaction video on YouTube, where a young person who's never heard music from my generation listens to it for the first time. Their faces when they hear someone like Karen Carpenter for the first time is everything. And inevitably there's the comment about "no autotune back then."

"Rainy Days and Mondays" reaction videos are awesome!

Edited by QuantumMechanic
  • Like 4
tennisgurl

tennisgurl

Count me in as another one who really liked this episode, it really hit on a lot of classic Trek themes, especially on meeting new species who are truly alien and finding ways to communicate with them. It was a great showcase for Celia Gooding and Uhura, she did a great job and it showed her skills as a professional and showed what a good person she is. Mining really always does create problems, from TOS to here, the Federation really needs to triple check for new lifeforms! 

The stuff with the Kirk brother sibling rivalry was a bit out of place, but I still thought it was pretty good. I know that we have all started to get tired of nostalgia bait, but I still got happy chills when Spock and Kirk met for the first time and they and Uhura sat together. And oh yeah, I saw that very first Spock eyeroll at Kirk! Truly a momentous moment in the franchise. 

I'm glad to see that so many people still miss Hemmer, I know that I do. I still think that killing him off was one of the shows worst calls and part of an issue that all of modern Trek has, they are constantly creating really good characters but then writing them off before they've reached their full potential. 

  • Like 6
Affogato

Affogato

On starships people have a lot of time to kill and it seems holodeck programs heavily mine history for subject matter. Familiarity with old music or old technology would be a common geeky pursuit. Gas station might be a common phrase all over the galaxy, or a star fleet phrase for fueling stations.

It is good to know that, while Pike is loyal and inspires loyalty, Kirk is smarter than Pike. Kirk's intelligence isn't acknowledged that much, but it was part of what made him friends with Spock, just like his emotional intelligence connected him to McCoy. The underpinnings of their threesome.

  • Like 5
baldryanr

baldryanr

18 hours ago, kay1864 said:

- Pike destroys the refinery based on the word of a hallucinogenic communications officer. At the least, Kirk could have presented him the brain scans on the iPad supporting that…but gee, that would have slowed the plot down wouldn’t it?

It's still a leap, but not to that extent.  Two good officers from different ships experiencing the exact same symptoms?  Plus Pike did look to Kirk (youngest XO in the fleet!) after Uhura said she was certain, and Kirk nodded his agreement. 

As for anachronistic language, it's been established that Pike loves using antiquated expressions.  His crew would read up on the subject just to make sure they don't stand around looking befuddled whenever he throws one out there.

  • Like 1
paigow

paigow

(edited)
10 minutes ago, baldryanr said:

As for anachronistic language, it's been established that Pike loves using antiquated expressions.

Dude uses open flame to cook, rides a horse and lives in the mountains...

TOS!Kirk was a Lincoln Fanboy [but had no clue about Clark Gable]

TNG!Picard was Holo!Dixon Hill

TNG!Data was Holo!Sherlock Holmes

31 minutes ago, Affogato said:

On starships people have a lot of time to kill and it seems holodeck programs heavily mine history for subject matter. Familiarity with old music or old technology would be a common geeky pursuit.

 

Edited by paigow
  • Like 1
Chicago Redshirt

Chicago Redshirt

4 hours ago, Affogato said:

Kirk's intelligence isn't acknowledged that much, but it was part of what made him friends with Spock, just like his emotional intelligence connected him to McCoy. The underpinnings of their threesome.

If you mean Kirk's intelligence isn't acknowledged that much within pop culture, maybe. But TOS has Kirk as a Renaissance man who described as a stack of books with legs when he was at the academy and one of the toughest instructors, who routinely beats Spock at chess, and who outthinks AIs and supposed "superior intellects" left and right.

  • Like 6
statsgirl

statsgirl

We seem to do a lot of harm encountering new species on Star Trek. (I'm still upset about the Horta.) Does Star Fleet Academy not teach a course on how to examine your assumptions before going out there to encounter new worlds?

I'm really glad that the lead for the episodes is being spread around. For both TOS and Next Gen, there was the A team who got the stories, and the B team who were lucky to be featured once a year.

James seems to be the kind of person who is kind to strangers and a jerk to family.

Has La'an ever talked to Pelia about their adventure in the past? It's because of La'an that Pelia started her career in engineering.

Not feeling Spock/Chapel at all. I choose to consider this universe AU so there is hope for La'an and Kirk yet.

20 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

Anachronisms like this have been bugging me. Especially in cases where someone’s favorite song is something we, the audience, are familiar with. Anyone here have a favorite song that’s from 200+ years ago?

So many. The Skye Boat Song, Greensleeves, the Hallelujah Chorus at Christmas, the song that Don Giovanni uses to seduce Zerlina in Mozart's opera 236 years ago.

  • Like 10
wanderingstar

wanderingstar

I really loved this episode. Celia Rose Gooding is wonderful as Uhura. I love that the story was partly about her facing the losses of her family and Hemmer (nice to see him again, even if just in phantom/zombie form). I like the show taking time to acknowledge the impact of Hemmer's loss on the crew. 

Poor La'an. It sucks that she can't talk about her encounter with AU Kirk.

My heart swelled when the camera panned out on Kirk, Spock, and Uhura.

This show is a gem.

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Sandman

Sandman

(edited)
On 7/20/2023 at 11:23 PM, CarpeFelis said:

Anyone here have a favorite song that’s from 200+ years ago?

Love me some “Ombra mai fu”! And so much of Handel and Bellini and pretty much all of Mozart, really.

I agree the jump scare with Zombie Hemmer in the turbolift was very effective. Celia Gooding did a great job, but I always like her. I even liked the first meeting of Spock and Kirk. 

But I already hate the relationship between Sam and James Kirk. They just seem to bring out the worst in each other, in ways that make both seem childish. It’s not cute, and it doesn’t strike me as especially nuanced or even all that realistic. In Uhura’s place, I’d have been itching to slap them both. “At least your family’s not DEAD, you egotistical moroons!”

Edited to add: Does anyone ever stun a Redshirt?

Edited by Sandman
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Stardancer Supreme

Stardancer Supreme

1 hour ago, Sandman said:

But I already hate the relationship between Sam and James Kirk. They just seem to bring out the worst in each other, in ways that make both seem childish. It’s not cute, and it doesn’t strike me as especially nuanced or even all that realistic. In Uhura’s place, I’d have been itching to slap them both. “At least your family’s not DEAD, you egotistical morons!”

 

You don't have a sibling that you are competing with for the love and validation of your absent father figure?  I assure you that James and Sam's relationship is quite realistic.

  • Like 4
Chit Chat

Chit Chat

I liked the episode but didn't understand why it took Uhura so long to figure out that someone was trying to communicate with her.  That was my initial thought when she heard the humming in her ear while on the bridge and the alien appeared in the turbo lift.  Yes, the hallucinations were scary, but that initial contact seemed obvious to me. 

On 7/22/2023 at 8:45 PM, Sandman said:

But I already hate the relationship between Sam and James Kirk.

Sam comes across as a whiny brat.  He's too old to be acting like that!

On 7/22/2023 at 10:04 PM, Stardancer Supreme said:

You don't have a sibling that you are competing with for the love and validation of your absent father figure? 

Can't say that I do!  

I liked the closing scene with Kirk, Spock and Uhura.  Nicely done, show!

  • Like 2
Chicago Redshirt

Chicago Redshirt

1 hour ago, Chit Chat said:

I liked the episode but didn't understand why it took Uhura so long to figure out that someone was trying to communicate with her.  That was my initial thought when she heard the humming in her ear while on the bridge and the alien appeared in the turbo lift.  Yes, the hallucinations were scary, but that initial contact seemed obvious to me. 

Sam comes across as a whiny brat.  He's too old to be acting like that!

Can't say that I do!  

We are genre-savvy and have probably seen variants of the plot of imperfect communication attempts a number of times.

Cadet Nyota Uhura has not as far as we know experienced extra-dimensional aliens and has no frame of reference for "aliens communicating with you might make you see and hear things that no one else does." The most plausible explanation -- especially before it was known that others had experienced something similar -- was that she was sick or that there was something wrong with her. Even knowing that one other person was experiencing something similar, it is not obvious that the cause would be aliens that they haven't been able to detect. It could just as easily be radiation or disease, for example.

Sibling rivalry is real, and can turn anyone into a whiny brat at any age. From what we've seen of Sam Kirk in SNW, it seems like the one apple fell far from the other apple, and the tree.

  • Like 2
Charlemagne

Charlemagne

On 7/20/2023 at 10:23 PM, CarpeFelis said:

Anachronisms like this have been bugging me. Especially in cases where someone’s favorite song is something we, the audience, are familiar with. Anyone here have a favorite song that’s from 200+ years ago?

Lots of folks have a favorite classical piece of music. We still know and appreciate Beethoven to this day.

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Chit Chat

Chit Chat

6 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Cadet Nyota Uhura has not as far as we know experienced extra-dimensional aliens and has no frame of reference for "aliens communicating with you might make you see and hear things that no one else does."

It seems like she would've had many examples demonstrated to her of how an alien might communicate with her or her ship while becoming a translator and communications office at Star Trek Academy.  That would be Communications 101 in my book!!  ;) 

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Chicago Redshirt

Chicago Redshirt

25 minutes ago, Chit Chat said:

It seems like she would've had many examples demonstrated to her of how an alien might communicate with her or her ship while becoming a translator and communications office at Star Trek Academy.  That would be Communications 101 in my book!!  ;) 

How frequently do you think there have there been extradimensional aliens undetectable by Starfleet instruments of the time who attempted to communicate via telepathic images that reference the person's past?

If not many, then I hope you could understand why that would not be Communications 101 or even Communications 567.

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