S01.E06: Crown Jewels

[chaifan]

This show really surprised me.  I watched the first season of Bridgerton simply because of the hype.  I liked it, didn't love it, liked the supporting cast far more than Daphne and Simon.  I liked season 2 much, much more.  But even after that season, I wasn't really invested in what would happen in Season 3.  So I tuned into this without high expectations.  And, I'll admit, it really blew me away.  I'm sad that it's only 6 episodes and that we got so little time with Charlotte and George together.  I loved the flash forwards into the "modern" Bridgerton.

I made this remark in the Ep 5 thread, but I'll repeat it here...  I don't need a second season of Queen Charlotte, but I'd love if they did a season for Agatha and another for Violet.  Charlotte and George could be supporting cast, and we'd see their story progress.  (And see what happened to Reynolds!  Poor Brimsley.)  I would love to know how Agatha regained her family's wealth and what happened with the titles.  I do not recall any mention of her being subject to her son's control in Bridgerton, so I'm wondering if George made it so she kept her title and was able to be head of household.

I know it's so easy to get swept away in these period (with liberties) pieces, with the big sweeping dresses and jewels, but wow!  This show provided so much eye candy.  What stunned me the most were young Charlotte's tiara's and hair jewels, as well as the hair styles around them (or the other way around?).  Those are amazing creations!  I don't care if they aren't period appropriate (I have no idea, actually, but assume they aren't). 

A few comments about the actual episode/wrapping up of the series...  There's been speculation above about whether Lady Danforth was pregnant with Lord Ledger's baby.  During the episode, I was wondering the same thing, as Lady D kept touching her mid-section during her conversation with the Queen's brother.  But by the end, I don't think so.  I think her reasons for turning down the Queen's brother were just as she stated.  I was glad to see that the affair with Lord Ledger was a one-off, and that he took her reputation into consideration.  I didn't like the affair, and would have rather it been an almost-affair.  I liked that Princess Augusta and Charlotte had come to common ground by the end, and I also liked Augusta and Agatha's change in relationship.  I can totally buy into Augusta liking Agatha as a sparring partner - she really has no one to talk to like that, no one who will really challenge her on her own views.  The Parliament men just challenge her on what she is representing for the King.  The ending was perfect, with the swtichbacks between young and old Charlotte and George. 

So, well done Shonda!  Well done!

 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

I think we were meant to draw parallels between how Charlotte raised her children and how Princess Augusta acted as a mother to George III. In both cases, both women felt the need to protect George due to his fragile mental health, almost to the exclusion of all else. And both women ultimately became obsessed with making sure that the line moved forward.

In both cases, Charlotte and Augusta were doing their best in difficult circumstances. Augusta was trying to find the most appropriate treatments for her son. We know that the doctor's treatment was barbaric but she didn't. And Charlotte was doing her best to be both a mother and father to her children and be a queen but something had to give (and that something was maternal instincts).

I like that this show recontextualized all the times Charlotte has asked about the king's death. For one, I think initially we were supposed to think she couldn't wait for his death but this show has made it clear she has lived with that fear for a long time and that it scares her because she loves him. And secondly, because the line hadn't been secured, the question indicates her worry about her family's future.

(Incidentally, the baby that Princess Victoria is pregnant with grows up to become Queen Victoria, who herself had 9 children. Of course, they are all direct ancestors of the current monarch).

[ursula]

6 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I like that this show recontextualized all the times Charlotte has asked about the king's death. For one, I think initially we were supposed to think she couldn't wait for his death but this show has made it clear she has lived with that fear for a long time and that it scares her because she loves him. And secondly, because the line hadn't been secured, the question indicates her worry about her family's future.

 

As far back as season 1, there was a scene between Charlotte and the old King that showed how much she loved and misses him. Since then, I realized her constantly asking if he was dead a mask to show how much she dreaded it.

The succession crisis - if you could really call it a crisis with 12 children after the Regent - just started this year when her grand-daughter died, so she wasn't worried about her family's future.

And you know, it really hits me now. That when she gets Edward's news and immediately goes to see George - this is why she was so desperate and urgent about having a grand-child. She didn't want George to die without knowing that his lineage was secure.

[Orcinus orca]

I know I am in the minority as I didn't love it as much as everyone else.  The costumes and jewels were incredible and it was fun to see the early days of Lady Danbury.  But there was so little time with George and Charlotte and way too much time spent on the screaming and torture. 

And I'm not quite sure what the whole "garden in bloom" with Agatha and Violet was supposed to add except a chuckle.  Was it to set up later seasons in Bridgerton?  I haven't read the books so I have no idea.

With that said, the final scene was wonderfully done and was a two Kleenex moment for me.

[Bill1978]

I admit I was really hesitant to watch this. I couldn't understand why we were getting a prequel for what was essentially a minor supporting character instead of Season 3. But then, my mum told me she was watching it and recommended watching it and I thought maybe I should since I was the one who recommended Bridgerton to my parents. And then my best friend said she was enjoying, so I caved, and I am so glad I did.

One of my big concerns holding me back was concern of the potential historical accuracy, but when the show started with the disclaimer 'While based on real people we've made stuff up cause it's a drama not a documentary' card I was able to chill and enjoy the ride.

I was not expecting to be a mess with that final scene under the bed but kudos to everyone involved in creating that moment. From what I can gather the real George & Charlotte loved one another despite his condition and that came through with this show.

I also didn't expect to get so caught up with Brimsley & Reynolds. And truth be told, I was more invested in their relationship that George & Charlotte. I think because they were fictional characters, I was more invested because I didn't know how their relationship was going to end. That dance scene got me quite teary, because they were so happy and free in that moment and then boom Brimsley is dancing by himself after he had that little discussion with The Queen about never marrying.

Spoiler

When I Will Always Love You started playing it annoyed me because it is not a love song in the true sense of the word but after reading about the cut scene between Older Brimsley and Older Reynolds in was the perfect song choice for those two to dance to.

I hope we get to find out what happened to Reynolds in S3 of Bridgerton. That's the only closure I need from this limited series. And as others said, I don't need a second season of this as it concluded perfectly. If they didn't have that bed scene, a second season would be justified, but I can't think of a better end to George & Charlotte's story than that.

It was also nice to see the older ladies of Bridgerton be given storylines that didn't revolve around marrying off their offspring. In Bridgerton, there is no room for their story to be given the attention it needs, so this series was the perfect place to do that exploration.

[roseslg]

I thought this was streets ahead of any of the Bridgerton shows, especially given all of the extra, non-book side-stories. 

I don't watch TV for history, but it was nice to have that blended in with the fiction.

Although this pairing was the youngest we've had so far, it was definitely the most human and that's why it's better. At 17, Charlotte made a choice to stay and to love knowing that it wasn't going to be a cakewalk. George chose to let her in and not go it alone.  We all know it won't end well, they know it won't end well, but to them the choice was worth it.

 

Lot's of grumbling about Lady Danbury and her relations with her husband. There is a lot of modern judgement on historically accurate representation. History is not butterfly and rainbows.  We never see Agatha saying no to marital relations. She of course described it as a chore. Would she have wanted to say no? Of course, but that was not her role. She wouldn't have thought she could say no since she was groomed for him since the age of three. After his death, she realized she could say no, she had agency over her body and she used it.  

I am sure there are millions who see it as a chore, but have sex because it's a their duty.

 

People watch Bridgerton for escapism and angst, but as a grown ass woman I much preferred this grown-ass story-line 😂.

 

The acting is also better. 🤷🏾‍♀️

[ursula]

3 hours ago, roseslg said:

Lot's of grumbling about Lady Danbury and her relations with her husband. There is a lot of modern judgement on historically accurate representation. History is not butterfly and rainbows.  We never see Agatha saying no to marital relations. She of course described it as a chore. Would she have wanted to say no? Of course, but that was not her role. She wouldn't have thought she could say no since she was groomed for him since the age of three. After his death, she realized she could say no, she had agency over her body and she used it.  

IMO, I had no issue with the fact that the show depicted Lady Danbury in what in modern times, we would call an exploitative relationship that was treated as business as usual back in the day.

However, I took issue that we kept having repeated montages of her having sex with her husband. Outside the first one and the last one where he dies, it was unnecessary and gratuitous. They established from the beginning that she had a bath right after sex with her husband, so all they could have done was just replace a scene of her husband pounding on her with one of her grumbling in the bath. It would have passed across the same message with less fan disservice.

Edited May 21, 2023 by ursula

[Roseanna]

On 5/7/2023 at 5:29 AM, shapeshifter said:

Lord Ledger broke off the affair with Lady Danbury because he loved her and realized her reputation would be ruined otherwise.

I think that reason was that lord Ledger loved his teenage daughter and prioritized her before his own feelings, not wanting her to hear either rumors about himself or quarrels with his wife about his affairs - to him, the most precious thing in the world was to that his daughter thought highly about him. 

[Roseanna]

On 5/18/2023 at 6:37 PM, eleanorofaquitaine said:

(Incidentally, the baby that Princess Victoria is pregnant with grows up to become Queen Victoria, who herself had 9 children. Of course, they are all direct ancestors of the current monarch).

 

On 5/19/2023 at 12:52 AM, ursula said:

The succession crisis - if you could really call it a crisis with 12 children after the Regent - just started this year when her grand-daughter died, so she wasn't worried about her family's future.

 

It was really odd that Charlotte fel that the succession crisis was over when one daughter-in-law became pregnant - after her granddaughter had died in childbirth and the baby died too. 

Irl 1-2 Bridgerton family's eight children would probably died in infancy.

[Roseanna]

On 5/6/2023 at 12:48 AM, Enero said:

I really enjoyed how the show didn't just stop at the royal family granting people of color in England titles, they started to explore how it went beyond just titles that tradition meant that anyonr granted titles were also granted  land to go with those titles, and then what happens when the Lord of the house dies, what's the line of succession? Will that wealth be allowed to be passed on within the family? If so, how? Very interesting topics.

This is supposedly be a Regency period, so the problem was odd.

[Scarlett45]

I watched this in three sittings, so I didn’t get a chance to post episode by episode but I wanted to say:

1. The casting and chemistry of Corey Mylchreest (Young King George) and India Ria (Young Queen Charlotte) was OFF THE CHARTS. Corey’s cheekbones were making me swoon, and his facial work displayed all of his emotions. She is as cute as a button and I want to see them both in more things!!
 

2. Whoever did the makeup was phenomenal because I couldn’t help but admire Young Lady Danbury’s makeup in every scene, her face was exquisite, she was a beautiful alluring woman but not a girl, an adult woman coming into her own. Also her husband looked absolutely atrocious (which was intentional), he wasn’t an evil man (he wasn’t cruel and he didn’t abuse her or anything), but being married to him was awful. As cute as Prince Adolphus was, I don’t blame her for not wanting to marry and be forced to have more children she didn’t want. 
 

3. By episode 5 I realized we had not seen an older version of Reynolds, and given that Brimsley was dancing alone in the garden I had assumed Reynolds had died. Freddie Dennis as Reynolds did a lot with what he was given too. 

4. I had to chuckle and Violet and her garden metaphors. She is a beautiful kind hearted woman, I don’t doubt there would be many men interested in her (not even for marriage if she doesn’t want that, just for companionship). I have been told menopause does that to some women, their sex drive goes up. Given Hyacinth is 10, and Anthony is 28 she’s likely in perimenopause.

I know this was set to be a miniseries, but the cast is so strong, I’d love for them to continue this in between seasons of Bridgerton. 

[Scarlett45]

On 5/18/2023 at 8:30 AM, chaifan said:

I made this remark in the Ep 5 thread, but I'll repeat it here...  I don't need a second season of Queen Charlotte, but I'd love if they did a season for Agatha and another for Violet.  Charlotte and George could be supporting cast, and we'd see their story progress.  (And see what happened to Reynolds!  Poor Brimsley.)  I would love to know how Agatha regained her family's wealth and what happened with the titles.  I do not recall any mention of her being subject to her son's control in Bridgerton, so I'm wondering if George made it so she kept her title and was able to be head of household.

That would be a great idea. I’d love seeing Violet and Edmund court and get married etc. 

[retired watcher]

1 hour ago, Roseanna said:

This is supposedly be a Regency period, so the problem was odd.

Queen Charlotte takes place way before the regency.

[ursula]

3 hours ago, Roseanna said:

I think that reason was that lord Ledger loved his teenage daughter and prioritized her before his own feelings, not wanting her to hear either rumors about himself or quarrels with his wife about his affairs - to him, the most precious thing in the world was to that his daughter thought highly about him. 

If he was thinking of his teenage daughter, he won't have been going on "walks" with Lady Danbury for so long in the first place. Not saying that Lord Ledger obviously didn't care about his daughter and her opinion of him, but it seems a stretch to think that after days of indulging in such scandalous behavior (those walks alone would have been enough to get tongues wagging, even without the actual sex), he suddenly woke up and remembered his daughter. 

 

3 hours ago, Roseanna said:

It was really odd that Charlotte fel that the succession crisis was over when one daughter-in-law became pregnant - after her granddaughter had died in childbirth and the baby died too. 

Well to be fair, Charlotte was shocked when her daughter mentioned her miscarriages so I don't think that's something that crosses her mind very often, or at all.  Probably the result of having 15 successful pregnancies in 20 years (losing 2 children, not even to sickness but to bad vaccine reactions).

[roseslg]

2 hours ago, retired watcher said:

Queen Charlotte takes place way before the regency.

I think it was mentioned in a Bridgerton season that she continues to dress how they did when they met so George would be able to recognize her. Just another layer of sadness. 

 

As someone said earlier, the chemistry was off the charts. I know episode 4 was not liked for the repetitiveness, but I like how we got to see George's first reaction upon seeing her trying to climb the wall.  From the look he gave her and that smile, homeboy was clearly smitten. 

 

We also get the scene with him looking at her playing chess by herself which mirrored an earlier episode with her watching him coming in from working on the fields.

 

There is a lot of showing and not telling in the writing which I appreciate.  Was it perfect? No, but I like that it presented shades of gray. Even the relationship between Agatha and Lord Ledger as much as I don't condone adultery, I get it. 

 

Flawed characters all around where the flaws continue to exist. 

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, ursula said:

If he was thinking of his teenage daughter, he won't have been going on "walks" with Lady Danbury for so long in the first place. Not saying that Lord Ledger obviously didn't care about his daughter and her opinion of him, but it seems a stretch to think that after days of indulging in such scandalous behavior (those walks alone would have been enough to get tongues wagging, even without the actual sex), he suddenly woke up and remembered his daughter. 

I think Lord Ledger brought his daughter on the walk so 1. He wouldn’t lose his nerve to end it, 2. It’s a way to end the affair without insulting Lady Danbury or causing a scene. 

When teenage Violet showed up Agatha knew it was over and she understood, there was no need for an emotional scene or injured pride. 

[DearEvette]

16 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I think Lord Ledger brought his daughter on the walk so 1. He wouldn’t lose his nerve to end it, 2. It’s a way to end the affair without insulting Lady Danbury or causing a scene.

Yeah. this was my read.

He also mentions her reputation and how sterling it was.  So I think he thought better of continuing their liaison not just because he was a family man, but because he knew she was concerned about the precariousness of her position until the succession issues were resolved and he did not want any possible discovery of them to stain her reputation.

[meep.meep]

On 5/21/2023 at 1:32 PM, retired watcher said:

Queen Charlotte takes place way before the regency.

The earlier scenes (George and Charlotte getting married) are before the regency, but the later scenes (Charlotte telling her children to procreate) are during the regency.  The Prince of Wales is referred to as the Prince Regent.  He served as regent from 1811 to 1820, but who knows where the show falls in that timeline.

[quarks]

6 hours ago, meep.meep said:

The earlier scenes (George and Charlotte getting married) are before the regency, but the later scenes (Charlotte telling her children to procreate) are during the regency.  The Prince of Wales is referred to as the Prince Regent.  He served as regent from 1811 to 1820, but who knows where the show falls in that timeline.

Princess Charlotte of Wales died in November 1817; Queen Victoria was born in May 1819. 

The historical Queen Charlotte died in November 1818, but since this show isn't exactly focused on historical accuracy or timelines that make any real sense, and she's a very popular character, I can easily see the show deciding that in the Bridgerton universe, Queen Charlotte didn't die until November 2030. Or November 2040. Or November 2050....you get the point. 

Edited May 23, 2023 by quarks

[secnarf]

1 hour ago, quarks said:

Princess Charlotte of Wales died in November 1817; Queen Victoria was born in May 1819. 

The historical Queen Charlotte died in November 2018, but since this show isn't exactly focused on historical accuracy or timelines that make any real sense, and she's a very popular character, I can easily see the show deciding that in the Bridgerton universe, Queen Charlotte didn't die until November 2030. Or November 2040. Or November 2050....you get the point. 

I think you mean 1818? ;)

I didn't realize that she didn't survive to see Victoria's birth - with the last scene in this episode, that is quite sad. Also that does mean she should be dying pretty soon in the Bridgerton universe. I think time will cease to have meaning and she will remain alive for the duration of the series (but I haven't read the books so that is pure spec).

[quarks]

1 hour ago, secnarf said:

I think you mean 1818? ;)

I didn't realize that she didn't survive to see Victoria's birth - with the last scene in this episode, that is quite sad. Also that does mean she should be dying pretty soon in the Bridgerton universe. I think time will cease to have meaning and she will remain alive for the duration of the series (but I haven't read the books so that is pure spec).

I did indeed mean 1818!  Edited to correct that, but I decided to leave the other years as 2030, 2040 and 2050 just for the amusement factor, even though I think I meant 1830, 1840 and 1850.

The Bridgerton timeline is a bit messed up. The first season definitely takes place in 1813. The second season apparently takes place about a year after that in 1814, or 1815 at the latest. Queen Charlotte definitely takes place in 1817/1818, so at least two, possibly three or four years later - and yet Violet Bridgerton, chatting with Lady Danbury, makes it sound as if everything in season two happened just three or four months earlier at most. Based on that, I'm not expecting Bridgerton to pay close attention to the historical timeline. 

[HelloooKitty]

If Nicolas Hoult and Franco the younger had a baby it would be George.  

[retired watcher]

On 5/22/2023 at 4:41 PM, meep.meep said:

The earlier scenes (George and Charlotte getting married) are before the regency, but the later scenes (Charlotte telling her children to procreate) are during the regency.  The Prince of Wales is referred to as the Prince Regent.  He served as regent from 1811 to 1820, but who knows where the show falls in that timeline.

I was talking about the scenes with young Charlotte. I know the flash forwards are the Regency. 

[catrice2]

I think it's OK for people to sometimes need each other for different reasons but love is not involved.I didn't read lady Danbury or ledger as being in love but two lonely people who showed each other kindness,admired  and desired each other.

At that point after being oppressed and abused for so long it would be wrong to think that the first man she had decent sex with it was true love. Rightly so it was written that she realized she needed to be herself and find herself before worrying about a man.

The scenes between them were not intended as love but to make sure it could not be accused of wanting her as a fetish that there was respect there.

 

[Snow Fairy]

Regarding the conversation between Agatha and Violet, it did have hidden meaning.

Violet showed Agatha that she knows about the affair and wanted to get rid of the birthday crowns because she thinks her father is not the man she thought he was. But Agatha's words that Violet should keep the birthday crowns because they are cheerful say to Violet that there was actually nothing deeper happening and her father was still the man Violet remembers.

They will be ok in the future.

[BloomsburyRez]

On 5/18/2023 at 11:37 AM, eleanorofaquitaine said:

(Incidentally, the baby that Princess Victoria is pregnant with grows up to become Queen Victoria, who herself had 9 children. Of course, they are all direct ancestors of the current monarch).

Today actually was the 204th anniversary of Queen Victoria’s birth. But it’s always mind blowing how few generations separated these monarchs.  The late Queen remembered and was very close to her grandfather George V (he was Queen Victoria’s grandson). But in fact her own father was only 6 when his great grandmother Queen Victoria died! 
 

The two princes did have a double wedding. The older, William was the one who asked about loving his bride. He eventually became William IV after his brother’s death and he and his wife Queen Adelaide were very happy, however they did not have children that lived to adulthood. Adelaide cottage was built for her, it’s the current home of William & Kate.

The next brother Edward married Princess Victoria who was the sister of the Prince that Princess Charlotte (the young woman who died in childbirth) was married to. He died a few months after his daughter the future Queen Victoria was born. He was the first royal to travel to Canada & the US, and Prince Edward Island is named for him.

And continuing George’s (and Charlotte’s) line, the Queen’s grandfather was George V, her father was George VI, and her great-grandson will be George VII. And if for some reason William & Kate’s oldest son does not become King  then England will have the first Queen Regnant named Charlotte. 

Edited May 25, 2023 by BloomsburyRez

[Llywela]

This was a lovely little series. Full of inaccuracies and anachronisms, but lovely to watch. The young Charlotte and Agatha were an absolute delight. So was the young Brimsley. And George. Wonderfully drawn characters played by fantastic young actors.
 

On 5/5/2023 at 10:48 PM, Enero said:

I really enjoyed how the show didn't just stop at the royal family granting people of color in England titles, they started to explore how it went beyond just titles that tradition meant that anyonr granted titles were also granted  land to go with those titles, and then what happens when the Lord of the house dies, what's the line of succession? Will that wealth be allowed to be passed on within the family? If so, how? Very interesting topics.

That actually really bugged me. I can see why Shonda went with it as a plot point, but it was an anachronism too far for me - it just isn't possible to create a new peerage title without settling the issue of succession up-front, succession is inextricably linked to the act of creation. Creation of a new title requires Letters Patent, and succession forms an integral part of the Letters Patent proforma, decided and laid out anew for each individual case. I could live with all the other anachronisms, and I understand why the plot wanted this one to be part of the story, but it was an anachronism too far for me and broke my suspension of disbelief.

Plus, you know, wealth and property laws in the 18th century weren't so far removed from ours - once land and property were legally bestowed upon someone, they belonged to them and would pass to the next in line upon that person's death, the land and property wouldn't 'revert to the crown' even if the title did, not unless there was no legitimate heir. And the show covered over a year, in the earlier timeline. The legalities would very definitely have been worked out in that time.

I guess I just know too much about how these things work to be able to suspend my disbelief in this regard!

Did not spoil the show, though. I found the overall story really moving and far more engaging than the fluffiness of regular Bridgerton.

On 5/7/2023 at 5:52 AM, Enero said:

Speaking of the heirs I thought out of the 13 of them at least one, heck maybe even two would’ve been traditional in having a solid marriage and a couple of kids but they were all “virgins” and “whores”. Lol. And perhaps they all turned out so non traditional because of the mental illness of their father? Though I don’t know how much of an impact that would’ve had since they likely didn’t see much of either one of their parents and were raised by nannies.

• The court ladies making disparaging remarks about Queen Charlotte’s taste in music as the young protege Mozart brilliantly played the piano, per the Queen’s request as she enjoyed his music and found him to be talented. I had to laugh at the ladies of the court ignorance.
•  
• Charlotte refusing to drink alcohol due to her 2nd pregnancy. I guess it could be argued that she is well aware of the power of alcohol and concluded that it might not be good for her pregnancy, even though there was no scientific data to back that up at that time. My understanding is during that period women continued to drink, smoke etc. while pregnant as they didn’t know the negative affects it could have on the baby.
• George joining Charlotte while she was giving birth. This was absolutely unheard of back then. But we saw it on this show. That was actually one of my favorite George moments, not only him helping her through the birth, but when he remind the Archbishop of where his bread is buttered and told him move out of his way. Loved it!

Well, the Prince Regent was married and had a daughter (who died in ep1) so they weren't all 'virgins and whores'. Not all of the daughters were unmarried, either. Just most of them!

I can forgive the court ladies being ignorant of Mozart, since he was still just a recently discovered child prodigy at the time, rather than the world-famous classical musician we remember him as today!

Charlotte refusing alcohol due to her pregnancy was a definite anachronism, but it made for a good shorthand to convey her second pregnancy. Although of course it would have been just as easy for her to simply say it. And yes, George attending her during the birth was another anachronism, but a great character moment.

On 5/8/2023 at 12:00 AM, greekmom said:

The romance between the two footmen were also well done.   I would have liked to know how Renyolds passed.  I also liked how Billsbury was very honest with the Queen in the present time telling her that she wasn't a very good mother (which I don't understand why she didn't make any matches for her daughters.  Really it is her fault that her daughters died as spinsters). 

Well, historically speaking, it was more down to George than Charlotte that most of their daughters never married.

Also, it's Brimsley, not Billsbury.

On 5/8/2023 at 4:36 AM, quarks said:

It might well become her business? After all, Violet still has six unmarried kids, and we don't know the marital status of Lady Danbury's kids - or, for that matter, possible grandkids. So Violet kinda does have a vested interest in knowing whether or not any of those four kids might be a half sibling.  Especially if Lady Danbury does end up having a fifth kid, passing that kid off as Lord Danbury's - sure, she didn't look pregnant/seem to be pregnant at the end of this series, but who knows?

I think it very unlikely that Lady Danbury had a fifth child by Lord Ledger - and if she had, I think enough time had passed by the time she actually slept with him that she'd have found it hard to pass the child off as her late husband's.

On 5/18/2023 at 2:30 PM, chaifan said:

Lady Danforth

Danbury. Her name is Lady Danbury. Not Danforth.

[quarks]

2 hours ago, Llywela said:

 

I think it very unlikely that Lady Danbury had a fifth child by Lord Ledger - and if she had, I think enough time had passed by the time she actually slept with him that she'd have found it hard to pass the child off as her late husband's.

 

 

Sure, but Violet, unlike people watching the show, has no idea when this affair began. For all that Violet knows, the affair started before the birth of Lady Danbury's fourth child - a child born before Lord Danbury's death.

[Macbeth1966]

On 5/15/2023 at 1:00 PM, TVForever said:

Except that it wasn't for story purposes- that part actually happened. You'd think that having 15 children would have taken care of that problem, but nope. Plenty of "illegitimate" children apparently, but precious few legitimate heirs, with most of them dying in infancy.

And Queen Victoria was born a year after Queen Charlotte had died.  So she died not knowing if there was an heir.

[wanderingstar]

I was pleasantly surprised by this series. Didn't expect it to have as much depth as it did. It was more character study than anything else, and I rather enjoyed that.

Loved to see the beginning of Charlotte and Agatha's friendship. Also loved all of Agatha and Violet's scenes in the present day. 

The ending with George and Charlotte in their spot under the bed was lovely. What a beautiful full-circle moment for them. Wonderfully played by both actors.

I wonder what happened to Reynolds. I so enjoyed his and Brimsley's relationship. I hope it got to last at least a little while.

[Macbeth1966]

I really loved this series as well.  Very unexpected as I only liked but did not love Bridgerton.  But I have friends who said it was great, so I thought I would give it a try.

And it is truly, truly great.  It probably helped that Shonda controlled the story and wasn't limited by a book's narrative.  And it is a mini series.  Shonda has shown herself to be a great showrunner and her shows are very popular.  But sometimes the stories do need to end before they become a parody.  I am looking at you Grey's Anatomy.

I was truly stunned and was moved by this story.  And it deserves to be rewarded.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Macbeth1966

[andromeda331]

I love this series. I knew I would like the series. I love Charlotte and Lady D. in Bridgerton. I have had issues with Violet in the other series but I really liked her here. I love the focus of them young and older women.

I love Charlotte and George. They were such a really great couple. They loved her. And I loved Charlotte accepting his mental illness as part of him. That half of him was enough. I'm sadden by her bad relationship with children but it makes sense. She had to put  her focus on George, his mental illness and the country. That left no real time for her . I liked learning the fictional reason why her daughters never married. For her. I love her and Brimsley's relationship. I liked her talk with William. How happy she was at Victoria's pregnancy and going to tell George. Poor, poor George. But they still had a moment. It made me cry.

I love Lady D. she worked to protect the titles and lands her son and their side got. I like that she had men since her husband that she liked and/or maybe even loved. She really liked Charlotte's brother, and he really would have given her a great and secure life. But I liked her reaction to heirs. Yeah, he would love her sons but still want and needs an heir or two. Agatha's done with that. I like that she chose the life she did. Her freedom.

I like how Violet handed finding out that Lady D. and her father had an affair. I really wasn't sure how this was going to go. I didn't want it to ruin their friendship. I really love their friendship and theirs with Charlotte. It didn't. Good for Violet. I hope she finds love again. She really seems like she would want to remarry.

[Scarlett45]

6 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I like how Violet handed finding out that Lady D. and her father had an affair. I really wasn't sure how this was going to go. I didn't want it to ruin their friendship. I really love their friendship and theirs with Charlotte. It didn't. Good for Violet. I hope she finds love again. She really seems like she would want to remarry.

I would love for these Queen Charlotte episodes continue on with a focus on the parents and their happenings, and scenes in the past. Violet and Edmund’s courtship for example. 

[Fireball]

On 5/20/2023 at 7:45 AM, Orcinus orca said:

I know I am in the minority as I didn't love it as much as everyone else.  The costumes and jewels were incredible and it was fun to see the early days of Lady Danbury.  But there was so little time with George and Charlotte and way too much time spent on the screaming and torture. 

And I'm not quite sure what the whole "garden in bloom" with Agatha and Violet was supposed to add except a chuckle.  Was it to set up later seasons in Bridgerton?  I haven't read the books so I have no idea.

With that said, the final scene was wonderfully done and was a two Kleenex moment for me.

I feel the same. I didn't love it. George and Charlotte had such wonderful chemistry, but we didn't spend enough time with them.  I actually was very excited after the first episode and felt like I was going to finally get to watch a love story.  But then we had all the screaming and torture and spent why too much time in the present day. I was annoyed with the time spent with Violet. What did the "garden in bloom" have to do with anything? This was the Queen's story not Violet's.

I agree the final scene was wonderful.

[wlk68]

I really enjoyed this series. Binged the whole thing on one rainy Sunday. 

Am I the only one who thought the actor playing George looked like Nicholas Hoult who played Peter on The Great? Huzzah!

[Llywela]

6 hours ago, wlk68 said:

Am I the only one who thought the actor playing George looked like Nicholas Hoult who played Peter on The Great? Huzzah!

You aren't the only one, no. Others have commented on the resemblance in these threads.

The funny part is that this series and The Great are roughly contemporaneous. Charlotte married George in 1761. Catherine the Great married Peter in 1762. Now there's a crossover to contemplate!

Edited June 5, 2023 by Llywela

[CountryGirl]

I'm a puddle, folks. An absolute puddle.

Show had me on the verge of tears for most of the episode.

Starting with Charlotte forcing George to tell he does not love her and only then will she go. To which he finally admits his love and it's as beautiful and glorious a moment as I could imagine.

That moment with George and Charlotte, basking in the afterglow and George being utterly sweet and sexy as he talks to his unborn child.

Lady Danbury, awaiting some more "solitude" with Lord Ledger only to have him show up with Violet and it is clear that their relationship is over, though I hate that we don't even get the why. Perhaps he cannot do that to his wife. Perhaps he cannot do that to his daughter. Perhaps he cannot do that to Agatha herself.

Charlotte giving birth to George IV with George at her side, bathing her forehead, and being the support and strength she so desperately needs in the most vulnerable moments of her life.

How in the world did she do this over and over again?

Agatha and Adolphus promenading at the park together and it's really too bad there is absolutely zero chemistry between them as both are gorgeous and would have the most amazing babies, but Agatha sees Ledger playing with Violet and he sees her and it's all so tragic.

Augusta meeting baby George being held by his proud father and him dismissing her concerns about his son. He insists that his son is "perfection" and looks his mother straight in the eye as he says it. Michelle was wonderful in these moments as she looks at the baby and then at her son, repeating "perfection."

Their eyes meet and there is much understanding in that moment and it's another time when I felt for Augusta.

One scene where I was not tearful, but proud, was the face-off between Agatha and Augusta. The Queen Mother's steely veneer slipping for just a few moments as she calms a sobbing Agatha. She shares her own past struggles with a cruel father-in-law who beat her son and...her, along with some generous nips of pear brandy. Was she implying rape? How awful. She is nothing if not a survivor as is Agatha and I loved her words here: "I do not like you. However, you have been an … admirable adversary thus far. Our battles bring me satisfaction" She again asks of news of Buckingham House and Agatha counters with asking about her son's title. 

Those moments where young George, feeling like a failure after his inability to get out of the carriage, let alone address Parliament, is hiding under the bed and young Charlotte climbs under with him, and have one of the truest conversations they've ever had. He doesn't want her to have "half a life" and she insists she does not and will not. Her hand reaches for his his as he looks at her.

The gorgeous ball George and Charlotte throw to satisfy Parliament, the Lords (I hear the Bobs in my head), and their upper echelon subjects. Dancing to "I Will Always Love You" was sheer perfection.

Another moment where Agatha and Ledge meet eyes but nothing more will ever come of that again.

Reynolds and Brimsley sharing a dance out of sight and hearing of the other guests and staff.

Later, older Brimsley, dancing on his own, and what happened to Reynolds???

Charlotte telling George she is expecting again and she tells him his line will continue. "Our line" he corrects her.

Later, older Charlotte getting a visit from George IV and Elizabeth, who finally snaps and tells her mother about how hard they've been trying to give her the royal babies she is demanding but have nothing to show for it but miscarriages and heartache. Charlotte is heartbroken to learn this and learn, too, that they didn't feel they could come to her, their own mother.

Agatha and Violet, in present-day, having tea that is more of an inquisition as Violet has sensed something in the air (well, that and the birthday hat she found on Agatha's mantel, half-tucked behind a fancy box). It's clear she doesn't buy that Adolphus was Agatha's gardener but when Agatha marvels at the birthday hats, she cannot bring herself to confront her friend (or condemn her, I think). Violet admits the hats are "filled with memories, ones I do not want to let go of." Agatha, facing away from her, looking at the hats, and her face is full of bittersweet remembrance. When she turns back to face Violet, there's a look between them that says Violet knows and Agatha knows she knows. She tells her to leave the hats where they are as "they are lovely." Indeed.  I hope we see more of this plotline in the next season of Bridgerton, even if I wish we could have more of Queen Charlotte, as it easily my favorite and strongest of the franchise.

Charlotte learns that son Edward and new bride Victoria are expecting (the future Queen Victoria) and she shares an honest-to-goodness embrace with her son. 

But it's the final moments, where she goes to tell George the happy news, that sent me over the edge. When he's drawing on the wall and rambling, she cannot get through to him. But she thinks of something that might penetrate and her kneeling by the bed gives him pause as she gives him a look before sliding underneath the bed they once shared.

If you are not ugly-crying by now, you must be made of stone. He comes back to her again, calling her by her name and she grabs hold of this moment of lucidity to share that Edward and his wife are going to have a child.

In an echo of that moment at the George IV ball, she tells him "Your line will live on" and he responds, "Our line." She repeats, "Our line" as he takes her hand.

And she looks at him and sees young George. 💔😢

They share a kiss as my heart is breaking a little bit. He remarks "Fancy meeting you here" and she laughs, then he says "You did not go over the wall."  Her face when she looks at him and says, "No, George. I did not go over the wall" and his eyes are so full of love.

He's looking at a young Charlotte and OMG, yep, I'm a puddle and I need an entire box of tissues at this point.

 She sees him as young George again and we cut away with just their shoes peeking out and my goodness, what a beautiful, heartfelt moment.

How is this show over already? I want and need so much more.

Now, off to read the other posts.

[Artsda]

I teared up when they were both under the bed. That scene flashing to younger selves and didn't go over the wall was so perfect. 

With the whole premise of coming out season to find a match that the 15 children didn't marry through it.  That Charlotte was asking Violet how she had 2 marriages in 2 years. Charlotte was there. I guess it was to show difference between 2 absent parents versus hands on ones. 

Liked Lady D deciding she didn't want to be the Queen's brother for the marriage and give heirs root. I enjoyed her with Violets father. 

Where's Renyolds? I thought he was just living with George, but then they didn't show him. 

[Llywela]

9 hours ago, Artsda said:

That Charlotte was asking Violet how she had 2 marriages in 2 years. Charlotte was there. I guess it was to show difference between 2 absent parents versus hands on ones. 

Charlotte was there, but she was an external observer of events rather than an active participant. She knows that Violet managed to get two children married off in two years because she watched it happen but her observations did not tell her how it was achieved.

Not all of Charlotte's children were unmarried going into this season; it wasn't 13 all unmarried (15 children in total but only 13 survived into adulthood). The Prince Regent had a wife and daughter - it was the daughter's death that triggered the race to create a new heir, because there was no spare. They'd all been satisfied that one heir was sufficient, Charlotte included, only to belatedly realise that they were wrong. At least one of the daughters was also married but had no children - we saw her telling Charlotte about her many miscarriages in one of the episodes.

That they all, perhaps, should have paid more attention to the danger of having only one legitimate heir before that heir's premature death was the general thrust of Lady Whistledown's mockery all season. The whole family was too complacent. And Charlotte's interest in the Ton's marriage market as a distraction from her family problems then compounded the issue, making her too easy a target for Lady W's sharp pen.

[Tyro49]

We're the valets real people, or just fictional?

[quarks]

4 hours ago, Tyro49 said:

We're the valets real people, or just fictional?

George III had a number of valets, but Brimsley and Reynolds were created for the show.

[LilJen]

On 5/15/2023 at 9:21 AM, mrsbagnet said:

They had the sex the day he brought her the hat. Lord Ledger has some serious game! 😂

maybe he had a secret pheromone spray he put on them hats!

[rejnel]

How does Augusta get to say (about George) “I secured my son as king?”  Wasn’t he simply in line and bound for the throne?

Edited June 10 by rejnel
Correcting a confusing typo.

[quarks]

On 6/9/2024 at 3:11 PM, rejnel said:

How does Augusta get to say (about George) “I secured my son as king?”  Wasn’t he simply in line and bound for the throne?

Couple of different things in play here:

1. George III was born in 1738. He was the grandson of the then-king George II.

In 1745, when he was seven years old, a number of Scots, aided by some English nobles, rebelled against his grandfather, George II, and attempted to put Charles Edward Stuart, better known as Bonnie Prince Charlie, and his father James Stuart, on the throne. (This is more or less what is going on at the start of Outlander.) Charles and James were the grandson and son of the last Stuart king, James VII and II, and a number of people believed that the Stuarts had a better claim to the Scottish/English thrones than did George II.

This rebellion completely failed, but the Jacobites, as they were called, never completely lost hope of trying to restore the Stuart monarchy.

2. Bonnie Prince Charlie was still alive in 1760, when George III was crowned king, and still hoping to claim the throne, making various attempts here and there to raise money and support for his claim. None of this ever came to much, but until he died in 1788, George III had to deal with this rival in exile.

3. Beyond this, the Hanovers (George I, George II, Prince Frederick, George III, George IV, and William IV) had a history of not getting along with their heirs at all, with the exception of William IV who seems to have genuinely got along with and liked his niece Victoria.  So not surprisingly, a few people openly speculated that because of all of this fighting, George II would not leave the throne to his oldest son, or to his oldest son's oldest son, but to another son or grandson.

So it wasn't entirely clear cut at the time. 

[rejnel]

15 hours ago, quarks said:

Couple of different things in play here [ . . . .]

So it wasn't entirely clear cut at the time. 

Brilliant, quarks, thank you for spelling out all that history so clearly!

I've just finished the series. When I like something, I try to anti-binge it to last longer. And I adored Queen Charlotte, start to finish. The casting in particular was extraordinary--love the young Charlotte actor's work in particular. And I don't know how Corey Mylchreest isn't a giant movie star. (Looks like he played Edmund in Kenneth Branagh's Lear, so I'll seek that out!)

When Augusta thanked Charlotte for making George happy, I teared up. When I heard the first notes of "I Will Always Love You," I thought it would be for Agatha and Ledger, and that we'd get to see them dance, an idea I liked. But when it turned out to be Brimsley and Reynolds, well, it wrecked me. Older Brimsley dancing alone wrecked me MORE. And by the time Charlotte and George met under the bed, well, I was leaning over my elliptical sobbing. (Good workout.)

No doubt there were all kinds of flaws to this show, but, oh, did I enjoy it!

And I am loving S3 of Bridgerton and have managed to hold off on the 4th episode till today, when E5-8 come out, so I've got more happy viewing ahead. 

[shapeshifter]

On 6/12/2024 at 7:19 PM, quarks said:

Couple of different things in play here:

1. George III was born in 1738. He was the grandson of the then-king George II.

In 1745, when he was seven years old, a number of Scots, aided by some English nobles, rebelled against his grandfather, George II, and attempted to put Charles Edward Stuart, better known as Bonnie Prince Charlie, and his father James Stuart, on the throne. (This is more or less what is going on at the start of Outlander.) Charles and James were the grandson and son of the last Stuart king, James VII and II, and a number of people believed that the Stuarts had a better claim to the Scottish/English thrones than did George II.

This rebellion completely failed, but the Jacobites, as they were called, never completely lost hope of trying to restore the Stuart monarchy.

2. Bonnie Prince Charlie was still alive in 1760, when George III was crowned king, and still hoping to claim the throne, making various attempts here and there to raise money and support for his claim. None of this ever came to much, but until he died in 1788, George III had to deal with this rival in exile.

3. Beyond this, the Hanovers (George I, George II, Prince Frederick, George III, George IV, and William IV) had a history of not getting along with their heirs at all, with the exception of William IV who seems to have genuinely got along with and liked his niece Victoria.  So not surprisingly, a few people openly speculated that because of all of this fighting, George II would not leave the throne to his oldest son, or to his oldest son's oldest son, but to another son or grandson.

So it wasn't entirely clear cut at the time. 

Wow. So not only would studying history help me with Jeopardy!, but it might explain WTF is going on in current

Spoiler

politics

as well.
 

23 hours ago, rejnel said:

Brilliant, quarks, thank you for spelling out all that history so clearly!

Ditto!

 

[PRgal]

Regarding anachronisms in the series:  The most stand-out for me were Christmas trees, which I thought was introduced by Prince Albert during the Victorian era (despite Charlotte being from Germany)