S44.E08: Don't Get Cocky, Kid

[MerBearHou]

8 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

If they are separated somehow I'd really like to know the mechanics of it. Perhaps all the Frannie votes are paperclipped together with a sticky note on them that says "Frannie"? Jeff would still have to really fumble around.

I'd love to know too.  My thought is that Jeff is paid millions of dollars to follow the producers' guidance and do a bit of fumbling around with paperclips or sticky notes in the urn if he has to!  

[Chicago Redshirt]

16 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

But it wouldn't work that way. Having a stack of Frannie on top and a stack of Brandon on bottom wouldn't "flip," for one thing. Not unless you literally reached inside, pulled out the whole stack and replaced it upside down. More to the point, if Danny had not played the idol at all, then Jeff would have to pull out one from the top then one from the bottom, then one from the top, etc., and surely the players would notice he's either reaching under a stack or pulling from the top. It would look strange. There's not a lot of room in that little urn to really manipulate the votes when they're in there.

If they are separated somehow I'd really like to know the mechanics of it. Perhaps all the Frannie votes are paperclipped together with a sticky note on them that says "Frannie"? Jeff would still have to really fumble around.

But I'm starting to think Meander is onto something upthread. Maybe there is noticeable fumbling as Jeff is trying to make sure he's pulling out a particular vote, and the show just edits it out.

Sorry I'm so obsessed with this, but it really caught my attention this time for some reason.

I'd assume that they do the "If anybody has an idol or an advantage they want to play, now would be the time to do so." Then see if someone does. And then they break to re-adjust the order of the votes in the urn for MAXIMUM DRAMA.

[Guest]

16 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

That net challenge was just cruel. I don’t think Pukey Boy, off to the side, was too upset that Carolyn was taking so long.

Interesting juxtaposition, there.

7 minutes ago, SummerDreams said:

I think I will only be happy if Frannie wins because she is cute or even if Carson wins because he deserves it. I don't really care for anyone else. We don't even know much for anyone else to be honest. I miss the introduction videos they used to make for each player so we see them with their families and we know some things about them. Now the only people who get some videos from home are the ones with sob stories.

I don't believe they ever did introduction videos showing their families. They would just introduce themselves there on the beach in a confessional, and anything we learned about them came up through the course of conversation with other players or in later confessionals. I think even the online-only "get to know them" videos were just them talking, no friends or family in view.

It was only starting in Season 41 (the first post-COVID season) that they started including still photos (and occasionally short video clips) of their lives outside the game, as the players were talking about their difficult backgrounds, traumas, triumphs, etc.

Fair point though, about not getting to know them as people unless they have some kind of heart-tugging hook (sorry Cassidy last season and...more than half the people this season)

[HurricaneVal]

I expect having Pukey Boy go second in the twisted net tunnel was just in case Pukey Boy had to stop and puke partway through, then Carolyn wouldn't have to roll around in it for her turn.  Blech.

[Chicago Redshirt]

I'm surprised that Carson even started. I'd be like, "Sorry Jeff. There is literally no way for our team to make a comeback from this position so I'm not going to bother."

[pennben]

The timing & logistics of vote arrangement at tribal: 

Vote arranging.

[Chicago Redshirt]

Also, who was the one who said "Don't get cocky, kid?" 

I was listening for it, because (I assume) the person was riffing off of Han Solo, and I was curious who might do that.

[violet and green]

22 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Also, who was the one who said "Don't get cocky, kid?" 

I was listening for it, because (I assume) the person was riffing off of Han Solo, and I was curious who might do that.

I thought it was Kane, who at one point this ep had Jury Matt's chyron...

[eel21788]

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I'd assume that they do the "If anybody has an idol or an advantage they want to play, now would be the time to do so." Then see if someone does. And then they break to re-adjust the order of the votes in the urn for MAXIMUM DRAMA.

Before they came up with all the Lose A Vote twists, the first name out of the urn was never the person who was going home. Once it was possible that someone didn't get to vote, the vote could be unanimous for that person, so it didn't work any more.

[30 Helens]

2 hours ago, pennben said:

The timing & logistics of vote arrangement at tribal: 

Vote arranging.

Thank you for finding the proof. I knew I had read about this (I think it was the EW article), but I couldn’t remember the details or the source. And really, why WOULDN’T they arrange votes for maximum effect? It’s a TV show, after all.

[lilabennet]

4 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I'm surprised that Carson even started. I'd be like, "Sorry Jeff. There is literally no way for our team to make a comeback from this position so I'm not going to bother."

He "tried" for the same reason Claire was an absolute idiot for sitting out so many challenges.  Players will latch on to any reason to turn the target onto someone else and away from themselves.  Everybody walked back to camp from that challenge caked in mud.  It would be so easy to stoke resentment against Carson walking back relatively clean.  They all sat in the ocean together in clouds of mud.  If he was clean-ish would Carson have been hovering on the beach in full view, wondering what they were talking about?  Or in the woods, not visible and causing idol-hunting paranoia?  Or sitting with them, awkwardly joking about not having his own Pigpen cloud?  He made the right decision.

[awaken]

20 hours ago, Chalby said:

I admit, I also thought production prearranged the order of votes read for maximum drama. All the votes were for frannie except the last 3, so do we really believe the last 3 to vote were all writing Brandon's name? Nope, it's all production.

Jeff stated on his podcast that he arranges the votes to fit with the story they’re wanting to tell. 

13 hours ago, cowgirlwen said:

Did Danny fart during the Immunity Challenge?  I had to rewind and watch it a couple more times to try to figure out what had happened.  It was a very odd sequence:

Danny:  "Jeff"

Jeff:  "Danny"

(Everyone laughing hysterically)

 

That was absolutely ridiculous, immature, and cringe worthy. I haven’t liked Danny, but now I absolutely can’t stand him.  

[Meowwww]

Sorry not sorry, I’m sick of Frannie and her googly eyed romance and her immature giggles.  Seems like a farcical slap in the face to this game. 
 

Carolyn for the win! 

[SummerDreams]

9 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

Interesting juxtaposition, there.

I don't believe they ever did introduction videos showing their families. They would just introduce themselves there on the beach in a confessional, and anything we learned about them came up through the course of conversation with other players or in later confessionals. I think even the online-only "get to know them" videos were just them talking, no friends or family in view.

It was only starting in Season 41 (the first post-COVID season) that they started including still photos (and occasionally short video clips) of their lives outside the game, as the players were talking about their difficult backgrounds, traumas, triumphs, etc.

Fair point though, about not getting to know them as people unless they have some kind of heart-tugging hook (sorry Cassidy last season and...more than half the people this season)

Really? Then I must be really confused with Big brother. I'd bet there were some introduction videos back in the day. My bad 😬

[Guest]

4 hours ago, SummerDreams said:

Really? Then I must be really confused with Big brother. I'd bet there were some introduction videos back in the day. My bad 😬

Amazing Race has done quick intro videos of the teams in their daily lives, sometimes with family, from the beginning, so you might have been thinking of that, too, if you watch that show.

[jsm1125]

15 hours ago, SummerDreams said:

I think I will only be happy if Frannie wins because she is cute or even if Carson wins because he deserves it. I don't really care for anyone else. We don't even know much for anyone else to be honest. I miss the introduction videos they used to make for each player so we see them with their families and we know some things about them. Now the only people who get some videos from home are the ones with sob stories.

I think though that we viewers are a little bit to blame for the show having so many idols and advantages and twists; if an episode is kinda boring and predictable we don't like it, we say "pff boring episode, I knew so and so was going to leave". I think it's a reason the producers are trying to create the most anticipation and drama to each episode.

I disagree that viewers are to blame for the abundance of idols, advantages and twists. No, a Pagonging wouldn’t be the most exciting thing, but they cast enough super fans these days that a Pagonging would be less likely to happen anyway. Plus, there’s a way to show everyone’s viewpoint and alliances that wouldn’t leave the audience wondering something along the lines of “Gabler had an alliance with Jesse and Cody for half the season? Since when??”

Plus, when you’re spending 1/2 the episode on a twist, you’re naturally not spending that time showing the audience camp life or interpersonal dynamics

[Taeolas]

18 hours ago, bankerchick said:

Not to flog a dead horse (but going to anyway,) I always assumed the votes were stacked in a way that created the most drama.  It just seems really unlikely to me that once Danny played an idol, production yelled 'CUT' then rearranged the votes.  That would certainly send the message that something was up and probably blunt the effect of a blindside, even if they didn't know who would be screwed.  The way the votes came out, the only options were Franny or Brandon.  It seems like it would be easy enough in this situation to have Franny votes on one side of the bucket, and Brandon votes on the other.  Jeff would pull them out in the order that would create the most drama based on whether or not an idol was played.

 

Arranging the votes has been addressed multiple times. But in general, remember, Reality TV shows have a LOT more production behind them than is apparent. Contestants basically need to be ready for long pauses basically at any time so production can get into position or figure out where the story is going next. As others have pointed out (and contestants have often said) Tribal Councils are usually a hell of a lot longer than we see on screen, often going for hours. And the article above pointed out, they have an extra 30ish minutes just to "Tally the votes" off set, so they can stack them in the way they anticipate will tell the best story. In an earlier thread, there was an article/story of a contestant who basically searched the voting booth for an advantage, because they've become that paranoid to look for them; that search was never shown nor even hinted at in show. 

That article (about tallying) also confirmed that Jeff can change the order on the fly if needed, so the votes are probably stacked in a way to help him easily tell which will be which. Likely they are grouped by name, and then there might be vertical slots that can hold them upright, so Jeff can easily pull from one group or the next without having to reach under the pile or anything like that. 

Reality Editing "magic" does things like cut out most of the planning on Iron Chef after the ingredient reveal, and makes those "12 hour builds" on Lego Masters seem to be 1 day when they're usually broken across 2 days. It also cuts out all the time needed to get beauty shots on food (and design shows) between the contestants finishing and the judges judging. Apparently on other shows, like the finale of Ru Paul's Drag Race, they'll often film multiple winners, so no one knows who actually won until the episode airs. 

[ljenkins782]

23 hours ago, Shermie said:

I wonder if Carson wishes he did the net thing first so he could breeze through it. I’m sure he practiced it a jillion times. 

Carolyn is one of those people who, if given a choice between expressing themself or staying quiet, will always express themself. Whether it’s actual talking or moaning or grunting or just rolling her eyes, Carolyn will let you know what’s on her mind.

I don't know about that. Carolyn is edited together to show her reacting at all times, but that's all her reactions stitched together and she's obviously bitten her tongue quite a bit and is playing along with the persona that the others have assigned to her. She speaks her mind in her confessionals that are then paired with those scenes, but in the moment, she's done a pretty good job of keeping her actual thoughts to herself.

I'm not sure if she's just this season's designated "character" or if she really goes deep, but she seems well poised to go deep based on her secret idol and the fact that the others seem to regard her as a goat who can be dealt with at any time they choose. 

Quote

Carolyn happened after their Bro-down …”I’ll see you at the merge”!  Kidding!  I think they perceived correctly the shot fired over the bow in taking out Matt.  Honestly, YamYam might have been the better vote there for both Ratu & Soka (with perfect hindsight vision to keep the war at bay a bit longer until they built a more substantial vote block) last week to reduce number of ‘floaters’ who could wreck either side. That would have reduced Carson’s ability to work as counter agent in both of the larger tribes. 

I definitely Yam Yam would have been a better choice to vote out than Matt. Matt's feelings were written all over his face all the time, while Yam Yam is playing all sides and probably lying to everyone. Yes, Frannie and Matt were a twosome, but that could have been exploited to someone's advantage by using them as a 2-for-1 vote as Matt would have done anything Frannie asked, they could be split up later. Yam Yam seems like an agent of chaos and they may regret keeping him. 

[Sarahsmile416]

I’m a bit late to the discussion- but one thing that really bugged me was Lauren’s (or Heidi’s?) comment to Carolyn “You should be working with me” - it was so condescending.  Not, “we should work together” but YOU should work with ME.  I know they all underestimate Carolyn, but this really bothered me for some reason.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I think though that we viewers are a little bit to blame for the show having so many idols and advantages and twists; if an episode is kinda boring and predictable we don't like it, we say "pff boring episode, I knew so and so was going to leave". I think it's a reason the producers are trying to create the most anticipation and drama to each episode.

I wouldn't blame the audience. Yes the show needs to come up with ways to stay fresh but they've gone way too far with all the twists that they've mostly ruined the gameplay. Meanwhile we've been seeing the same old obstacle course/puzzle challenges for years now. Maybe they should put a little effort into updating those.

Quote

Thank you for finding the proof. I knew I had read about this (I think it was the EW article), but I couldn’t remember the details or the source. And really, why WOULDN’T they arrange votes for maximum effect? It’s a TV show, after all.

The link answered my question which was whether they need to be re-arranged after an idol has been played. Apparently not, so it must mean there is a bit of fumbling going on in there and the show edits it out.

[Lantern7]

Given how much she hearts Matt, and given how they are now a couple, I have to wonder if Frannie would be open to playing to lose. She gets voted off,  aye she gets some Ponderosa snugglebunnies action. Nope . . . she is playing to win. Maybe she gets the title in the name of avenging Matt. Why not?

Those nets need to be thrown out. That’s some Challenge-type stuff, where you just know someone is going to get trapped. Carolyn might be a pill, but seeing her thrash wasn’t fun. Only way it could have worse is if she banged her head on Noelle’s discarded leg.

Even with the meddling, puking and farting, I think this is a good season. Minimum, it’s more interesting than S43, and I don’t think any background players (Heidi, Lauren) will win because the editors have more to work with this time. I’m convinced they couldn’t make a Gabler win work, so they focused on the yahoos around him. Does that make sense?

Here’s Erik’s cartoon for this week:

I can’t co-sign on this. Yam Yam might be a mythical character, but not from Where The Wild Things Are. I’m still convinced he’s a final day goat . . . which means he’ll be the next to go or he’ll win the darn thing.

[Matty]

I'm enjoying this season too. It's fun watching "The Three Stooges" stick together through thick and thin and survive every tribal council. They entertain me. Especially Yam Yam and Carolyn. Two people who are different, bonding and playing a good game. The cast members seem to enjoy Yam Yam's humor. So do I. If they stick together and don't turn on each other they will go far in the game.

[DEL901]

1 hour ago, Matty said:

I'm enjoying this season too. It's fun watching "The Three Stooges" stick together through thick and thin and survive every tribal council. They entertain me. Especially Yam Yam and Carolyn. Two people who are different, bonding and playing a good game. The cast members seem to enjoy Yam Yam's humor. So do I. If they stick together and don't turn on each other they will go far in the game.

I want to see their faces when Carolyn finally uses her Idol.  

[Nashville]

On 4/19/2023 at 8:03 PM, mojoween said:

Although, I don’t understand why Brandon’s pals thought four was greater than six.  

They didn’t, but they did think seven (Ratu’s four + Tika’s three) was greater than Soka’s three.  
Both the Ratu 4 and the Soka 3 seemed to take for granted getting Tika’s 3 votes in alignment with their own.

 

On 4/20/2023 at 3:06 PM, iMonrey said:

But I'm starting to think Meander is onto something upthread. Maybe there is noticeable fumbling as Jeff is trying to make sure he's pulling out a particular vote, and the show just edits it out.

Sorry I'm so obsessed with this, but it really caught my attention this time for some reason.

IMHO you’re waaayyy overthinking this, because we aren’t seeing one uninterrupted strip of video from voting to reveal.  I’d be pretty certain that immediately after Jiffy says “it’s time to tally the votes”…

1. Everybody on-set then hears the director shout “CUT!!!”
2. Some Production wonk grabs the vote urn and takes it somewhere out back off-set.
3. Production staff then spends 15-20 minutes reviewing the votes and debating what order of revelation would generate the most suspense and/or misdirection.
4. Once Production makes up their collective minds, the votes are arranged accordingly in the urn.
5. The urn is then returned to Peachy’s podium.
6. The director shouts “ACTION!”, and Jeff picks right back up where he’d previously left off.

 

On 4/20/2023 at 3:54 PM, pennben said:

The timing & logistics of vote arrangement at tribal: 

Vote arranging.

Thank you for saving me a ton of typing.

 

[Skooma]

On 4/20/2023 at 4:54 PM, pennben said:

The timing & logistics of vote arrangement at tribal: 

Vote arranging.

Thanks for confirming what a dozen or more of us were saying.  Appreciate it.

Quote

The vote-arranging even accounts for potential twists. A few years ago, Probst told EW, “I stack the votes prepared for them to play the idol, as that is the assumption I always make. If they play the idol, I read the votes as read and we usually eliminate their votes off the top so we can delay the reveal of who is going home. If they don’t play the idol, then I have to pull the votes out in an order different from the way they are stacked.”

This from that article was what I was saying all along.  It is easy to pull from the bottom of the stack too.

[TVMovieBuff]

What I like about this season, is the players are wearing CLOTHES. Not running around in dirty underwear or bathing suite all the time. 

We still see some bare-chested men, but not always. The women aren't always using the buff for a tube bra. They wear shirts and shorts, and I think it looks better for TV. 

[peachmangosteen]

I feel like TPTB may have provided them all their clothes too because I'm pretty sure several of them came from Target.

[Nashville]

3 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I feel like TPTB may have provided them all their clothes too because I'm pretty sure several of them came from Target.

Shopping the Andy Herrin Garanimals collection, no doubt.

[HappyDancex2]

Yam squared is starting to bug.  
 

It seems like everyone’s faces are starting to clear up.  I wonder if the merge beach has less sand fleas or toxic leaf sap or wood mold that was wreaking havoc on many.  

[Cornhusker12]

On 4/23/2023 at 12:56 AM, HappyDancex2 said:

It seems like everyone’s faces are starting to clear up.  I wonder if the merge beach has less sand fleas or toxic leaf sap or wood mold that was wreaking havoc on many.  

Speaking of what is and isn't shown on camera, am I remembering correctly that there are still post-merge reward challenges happening, but they don't show them in episodes anymore for some reason? I swear I remember hearing that during a previous post-Covid season. Seeing Jamie at tribal council made me think about it again. Her hair looked nicely done and just seemed cleaner than the rest of the tribe haha, and I wondered if she had won some kind of spa reward or something.

To me, that would explain things like Jamie's fresh look, apparently some peoples' faces clearing up according to @HappyDancex2, and even some relationships changing on a whim. IF they are still doing those challenges/rewards, we are missing out big time. So much relationship-building happens during that part of the game.

Edited April 24, 2023 by Cornhusker12

[jsm1125]

I know Jessica Lewis (from Millennials vs. Gen X) indicated that, when she played Survivor, one of the rules before the season began filming was that production would make sure you had access to your things, regardless of what beach you ended up on.

Did that rule change after her season? Just for this episode in order to needlessly fuck with the players? 

[violet and green]

On 4/21/2023 at 7:43 AM, violet and green said:

I thought it was Kane, who at one point this ep had Jury Matt's chyron...

I've rewatched the start, and it was Kane who said this and as he was saying it they had Matt, security whatever in red under him.

[Hanahope]

13 hours ago, jsm1125 said:

I know Jessica Lewis (from Millennials vs. Gen X) indicated that, when she played Survivor, one of the rules before the season began filming was that production would make sure you had access to your things, regardless of what beach you ended up on.

Did that rule change after her season? Just for this episode in order to needlessly fuck with the players? 

We don't know.  it sounds like it was just this episode and Jeff is just shrugging at the change, taking Julie's line "expect the unexpected."  it is kindof bullshit, since the missing bag, and Matt making a big deal about it, is what really got him voted out.  

Edited April 25, 2023 by Hanahope

[fishcakes]

15 hours ago, jsm1125 said:

I know Jessica Lewis (from Millennials vs. Gen X) indicated that, when she played Survivor, one of the rules before the season began filming was that production would make sure you had access to your things, regardless of what beach you ended up on.

Maybe she just meant that was in the event of a tribe shuffle or unexpected move to another beach. I can't think of any specific examples, but I seem to recall in the past that sometimes people have gone to TC without their bags, been voted out, and then had to leave their things behind.

[Taeolas]

Yeah I would expect that if you are permanently moved from one camp to another camp for some reason during the game, production would make sure your gear moved with you, both to not disadvantage you and not advantage the former camp (who would otherwise have access to your stuff).

But in this case, it wasn't a permanent move, it was a temporary isolation to let both sides do their scheming as needed, so there was no need for production to move gear around. 

After he was voted out, I'm sure Production made sure his gear was removed before the castaways got back to camp in any case. 

It does show that you should make sure you have everything you might need for Tribal Council on you at all times at the very least.