Why Grammar Matters: A Place To Discuss Matters Of Grammar

[Haleth]

14 hours ago, fairffaxx said:

Today, Sen. Kamala Harris asked Atty. General William Barr whether the Pres. had "suggested" that Barr do something or other.  Barr was unsure about the word "suggested", so Harris asked whether the Pres. had "hinted" or "inferred" that a course of action should be taken.   I was so distraught at her misuse of "inferred" instead of "implied" that I can't even remember what the subject of her question was. 

I'll forgive the error because the snark was so delicious.

[Ohwell]

2 hours ago, Haleth said:

I'll forgive the error because the snark was so delicious.

Yes, but if you're going to snark, especially in front of cameras, you'd better be correct.  Otherwise, it diminishes the snark.  

[fairffaxx]

7 hours ago, Ohwell said:

Yes, but if you're going to snark, especially in front of cameras, you'd better be correct.  Otherwise, it diminishes the snark.  

And this is the part of her questioning that keeps getting replayed as an admiring example of how tough she is.  So her error is being spread far and wide, without anyone commenting on it as far as I've seen -- which just goes to show that very few people know or care about grammatical correctness.  Soon, misusing "infer" to mean "imply" will be just as accepted as misusing "literally" to mean "figuratively" is.  I miss William Safire!

[SuprSuprElevated]

35 minutes ago, fairffaxx said:

Soon, misusing "infer" to mean "imply" will be just as accepted as misusing "literally" to mean "figuratively" is.  I miss William Safire!

Seems like this "literally" nonsense is often used as a replacement for "actually" or "really" also, and can often be omitted altogether with no change to the thought.  It truly annoys me to the nth degree.

[legaleagle53]

3 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Seems like this "literally" nonsense is often used as a replacement for "actually" or "really" also, and can often be omitted altogether with no change to the thought.  It truly annoys me to the nth degree.

Don't you mean, "It literally annoys me to the nth degree"?  😜

[SuprSuprElevated]

7 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Don't you mean, "It literally annoys me to the nth degree"?  😜

See there?  lol

[shapeshifter]

This should be  widely  distributed:

[Browncoat]

I love that! 

[Milburn Stone]

I have a quarrel with it. "Their" should only be used as a plural possessive pronoun. The graphic depicts a single figure. This perpetuates one of the most grievous errors known to grammar.

Perfectly acceptable in colloquial, spoken speech. Completely not in written speech.

Edited May 4, 2019 by Milburn Stone

[shapeshifter]

38 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

I have a quarrel with it. "Their" should only be used as a plural possessive pronoun. The graphic depicts a single figure. This perpetuates one of the most grievous errors known to grammar.

Perfectly acceptable in colloquial, spoken speech. Completely not in written speech.

There are two of them in the their illustration; you just can't see them because they are identically dressed identical twins, with one standing directly behind the other.
Better now?

[Milburn Stone]

44 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

There are two of them in the their illustration; you just can't see them because they are identically dressed identical twins, with one standing directly behind the other.
Better now?

That helps. 🙂

[fairffaxx]

Sorry, I can't agree that it's "[p]erfectly acceptable in colloquial, spoken speech".  This is not a matter of colloquial being colorful (e.g., "ain't") when spoken but too informal for written speech.  Wrong is wrong, and "they" is always wrong when referring to a single subject, simply because it's inaccurate.  It means more than one ("... And thick and fast they came at last, and more, and more, and more!"), not one whose gender is indeterminate.

[shapeshifter]

46 minutes ago, fairffaxx said:

Sorry, I can't agree that it's "[p]erfectly acceptable in colloquial, spoken speech".  This is not a matter of colloquial being colorful (e.g., "ain't") when spoken but too informal for written speech.  Wrong is wrong, and "they" is always wrong when referring to a single subject, simply because it's inaccurate.  It means more than one ("... And thick and fast they came at last, and more, and more, and more!"), not one whose gender is indeterminate.

Singular they dates back to the 14th century (https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/).

[supposebly]

And the rant in the 17th century against singular 'you'

http://allthingslinguistic.com/image/146771865157

[shapeshifter]

39 minutes ago, supposebly said:

And the rant in the 17th century against singular 'you'

http://allthingslinguistic.com/image/146771865157

This could verily have been written by one of us regular posters to this thread if it did not end with a preposition, heh:

[Milburn Stone]

46 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

This could verily have been written by one of us regular posters to this thread if it did not end with a preposition, heh:

That going from singular thou to you--that was when it all started heading south.

[Anduin]

I'm not going to bother linking to the source, but I just saw a use of 'conflictory'. I understood what it meant, and it was used in the correct place. But seriously?

[CoderLady]

1 minute ago, Anduin said:

I'm not going to bother linking to the source, but I just saw a use of 'conflictory'. I understood what it meant, and it was used in the correct place. But seriously?

Ugh. Why couldn't they use "conflicting?" It's already been nicely broken in and ready to use.

[RealHousewife]

They constantly incorrectly use each other vs one another on Days of Our Lives.

[Silver Raven]

I just saw an ad for NBC's "the Village" that said on the screen, "All of the season has lead up to this".

[AimingforYoko]

22 minutes ago, Silver Raven said:

I just saw an ad for NBC's "the Village" that said on the screen, "All of the season has lead up to this".

What their talking about is the amount of lead this season had. If you feel ill, talk to you're doctor. 

(Yes, I see what I did they're.)

Edited May 14, 2019 by AimingforYoko

[Jacqs]

I have a problem with intellectualists because they claim to be "of the people", but are so out of touch with the average person it is not funny.

[Sandman87]

I saw the following sign today on a freeway off-ramp for a narrow, winding road: "Trucks and RV's not recommended."

How did they manage to get it only half right?

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, Sandman87 said:

I saw the following sign today on a freeway off-ramp for a narrow, winding road: "Trucks and RV's not recommended."

How did they manage to get it only half right?

I blame this rule from the Chicago Manual of Style for sowing the seeds of confusion regarding the use of the apostrophe:

Quote

7.15: Plurals for letters, abbreviations, and numerals

Capital letters used as words, numerals used as nouns, and abbreviations usually form the plural by adding s. To aid comprehension, lowercase letters form the plural with an apostrophe and an s (compare “two as in llama” with “two a’s in llama”). . . .

the three Rs

x’s and y’s

I also imagine that the person who composed the text for the sign decided that doing it both ways would look more like a mistake than that he did not know which was correct.

Or, possibly he just expected the person who passed on the text to the sign painter to Google it and find which was correct, but for reasons of ignorance, carelessness, pride, or fear of correcting the boss—or maybe even relishing an opportunity to expose a presumed mistake by the boss—that did not happen.

[Moose135]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Or, possibly he just expected the person who passed on the text to the sign painter to Google it and find which was correct, but for reasons of ignorance, carelessness, pride, or fear of correcting the boss—or maybe even relishing an opportunity to expose a presumed mistake by the boss—that did not happen.

[Giuseppe]

On 4/23/2019 at 12:24 PM, bijoux said:

On 4/11/2019 at 2:16 PM, Browncoat said:

I've never heard "all of the sudden" either.

This morning, the radio DJs made my ears bleed and almost made me wreck my car.  They were talking about the clerk at the 7-11 who caught some kid shoplifting, but the clerk decided to "give he and his brother" the food instead of calling the cops. 

Ohh hell, it's spreading. I've been noticing the subjective I being used in place of the objective me for a while and it's insane. Now this too? 😥

People mix this up ALL THE TIME and it's literally *snark* driving me insane. They'll say "give the food to he and his brother", but then turn around and say something like "him and his brother went to the store". UGH. NO!

Give the food to him. Give the food to his brother. Therefore, give the food to him and his brother.

He went to the store. His brother went to the store. He and his brother went to the store.

This is my most hated grammar peeve, with 'should of, would of, could of" coming in second. I swear, this is what's going to eventually lead me to murder someone.

[Brookside]

"Everything has to be disinfected anymore."

[praeceptrix]

5 hours ago, Brookside said:

"Everything has to be disinfected anymore."

Eek! What, exactly, is that supposed to mean?

I have only seen that bizarre use of "anymore" in the work of a particular author of fanfiction (tv adjacent, ergo on topic!). Every time the author used it I found myself shaking my head, wondering why (the author was pretty decent, aside from that quirk).

Another huge annoyance in fanfiction (& elsewhere): the nearly ubiquitous omission of the final "ed" (e.g. "he had his hands clasp behind his back" "the plan is suppose to work")! I understand that the authors are just spelling words as they hear them, and many speakers don't enunciate the "ed." I even appreciate it when used to write an accent (Cockney, Southern drawl, etc.). But 99% of the time, it's just flat-out wrong and drives me nuts.

[Melgaypet]

I really need people to stop using 'discrete' when they actually mean 'discreet.'

[Ohwell]

I'm tired of people using "thirsty" as a slang word for a person who is needy or interested in someone. 

I hate the word "woke."

I blame it on the young'uns.

[Milburn Stone]

56 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

I'm tired of people using "thirsty" as a slang word for a person who is needy or interested in someone. 

I hate the word "woke."

I blame it on the young'uns.

Agree right down the line. I wonder if thirsty = appetite for [your human need here] originates with the Most Interesting Man in the World. He always signed off with, "Stay thirsty my friends." Or does the abomination predate him?

[Ohwell]

10 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

Agree right down the line. I wonder if thirsty = appetite for [your human need here] originates with the Most Interesting Man in the World. He always signed off with, "Stay thirsty my friends." Or does the abomination predate him?

I thought he meant it literally, as in "Stay thirsty my friends" and keep drinking my beer.  LOL 

[fairffaxx]

8 hours ago, praeceptrix said:

... Another huge annoyance in fanfiction (& elsewhere): the nearly ubiquitous omission of the final "ed" (e.g. "he had his hands clasp behind his back" "the plan is suppose to work")! I understand that the authors are just spelling words as they hear them, and many speakers don't enunciate the "ed." I even appreciate it when used to write an accent (Cockney, Southern drawl, etc.). But 99% of the time, it's just flat-out wrong and drives me nuts.

The example of this that I see most often is "cliché" -- "It's so cliché to think that all dogs chase cats".  Makes me grit my teeth.

[Ohwell]

Also, I'll be so happy when the phrase "throwing shade" goes away.

[Mittengirl]

And “clapped/clapping back”.

[Ohwell]

11 hours ago, Mittengirl said:

And “clapped/clapping back”.

Yes!

[Brookside]

"Muggsy frequently comes to work with her & lays under the desk."

The quote is from another thread.  Apparently Muggsy is a dog yet lays eggs.  There's a place waiting for Muggsy at Ripley's Believe it or Not.

(And yes, this is just one of hundreds of examples of the misuse of "lay" that I've seen.  Ugh.)

[Milburn Stone]

6 hours ago, Brookside said:

(And yes, this is just one of hundreds of examples of the misuse of "lay" that I've seen.  Ugh.)

No lie.

[Anela]

On 5/2/2019 at 6:01 PM, fairffaxx said:

  Soon, misusing "infer" to mean "imply" will be just as accepted 

I do this, and I actually thought about this last night - wondered about it. I was tempted to say that I literally thought about it last night. 😉 I do love visiting this thread, just in time to see a couple of examples that I know I am guilty of. I even had a dog named Muggsy, twenty years ago. A little Cocker Spaniel that had been dumped in the pound.

[fairffaxx]

Anela, I forgive you pretty much anything because you rescued an abandoned animal -- the sins of grammar misuse (and much else) pale mightily against that.  Many thanks for helping!

[talktoomuch]

Why do people think adding a possessive apostrophe to the word "kids" also adds another syllable? If I have to hear about another "kidses" feelings or "kidses" stuff I'm going to...nothing really. Just keep getting annoyed.

[Browncoat]

That awkward moment when you're thinking warehouse, and typing storage, and somehow end up with "whorage".  Fortunately, I caught it before I sent the e-mail.  To my boss.

[Sandman87]

From a local ad: "I'm announcing this now because the timeline for these deals are uncertain." Yes it are.

Seen on the back of a truck: "Driver's wanted." I took it to mean that the driver is on the run from the police.

On 6/3/2019 at 11:18 AM, Ohwell said:

I'm tired of people using "thirsty" as a slang word for a person who is needy or interested in someone.

It makes me think of the liquified chicken restaurant from Invader Zim. "Are you thirsty for chicken?"

[shapeshifter]

Note: When phoning United Health Care about a time sensitive change that will effect benefits, even if the UHC agent's inconsistent use of English grammar makes it impossible to comprehend what next steps are necessary to assure continued health insurance coverage, do not tell the agent that you do not understand what she is saying because of her use of non-standard English, and do not illustrate the problem by identifying her use of an incorrect preposition, because she can then close your case.

[Milburn Stone]

55 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Note: When phoning United Health Care about a time sensitive change that will effect benefits, even if the UHC agent's inconsistent use of English grammar makes it impossible to comprehend what next steps are necessary to assure continued health insurance coverage, do not tell the agent that you do not understand what she is saying because of her use of non-standard English, and do not illustrate the problem by identifying her use of an incorrect preposition, because she can then close your case.

Excellent advice. But it does point out the worst problem with incorrect grammar. (Which no one in this conversation needs pointed out, but I can't help myself.) Which is that frequently, it makes the intention of the speaker or writer incomprehensible! I'm not talking about the accent of a non-native speaker; that's a separate problem, and not really anyone's fault. I'm saying a native English-speaker, English-as-a-first (and possibly only) language speaker who uses poor grammar runs the risk of the receiver literally not knowing what the speaker/writer is trying to say! (I've had this happen when editing someone else's copy. "I'd know how to fix this if I had the slightest clue what you mean!")

Edited June 15, 2019 by Milburn Stone

[rur]

Has anyone else seen the promo for Pearson (a spinoff from Suits) and thought, "Jessica Pearson would know the difference between anxious and eager"?

[Jacqs]

In one of my past lives, I was an English teacher. Maybe I am overly sensitive to this, but a number of prominent broadcasters still think they are being correct when they say "Joe went to the store with Jim and I." In that case, the correct pronoun (objective versus subjective) is ME. If you are not sure, take out the "Jim and" and use both words. You'll know right away. I am directing this to a particular NYC morning show host but hope it may be useful for others. You're (not your) welcome!!! 

[Ohwell]

Another phrase I'm sick of hearing is "spill the tea."  It just sounds so stupid.

[topanga]

1 minute ago, Ohwell said:

Another phrase I'm sick of hearing is "spill the tea."  It just sounds so stupid.

There's so much slang out there. Probably not more than when during my teenage/20-something years, but it sure seems like it. 

I hear young people constantly talking about spilling tea, being thirsty, something being Awk [ward], something being Stan (I don't know what that one means), flaming on people, etc. 

Oh, and a plug is supposed to be a drug dealer/drug corner. Go figure. 

If only I could understand the logic behind some of these words. Like when you can break down an English word into its Latin or Greek (or French or Spanish) roots. I just don't get that satisfaction from today's slang. LOL

Yeah, get off my lawn. 

[Annber03]

1 minute ago, topanga said:

something being Stan (I don't know what that one means), flaming on people, etc. 

A stan is somebody who is a super obsessed fan of somebody, to the point of defending and supporting them no matter what they do. The term came from Eminem's song "Stan", which is about an Eminem fan that goes VERY disturbingly overboard with his interest in the guy and his music.