Why Grammar Matters: A Place To Discuss Matters Of Grammar

[Zella]

  On 9/28/2021 at 7:42 AM, shapeshifter said:

Actually, I think “sharp dresser” is still used. But not just “sharp” alone as an opinion of something’s cultural value?

Expand  

I feel like I only ever hear "sharp" in relation to someone's appearance, usually men. "He looks sharp." 

I usually don't mind slang and even kind of enjoy it, but I'm still trying to wrap my mind around "based." I keep seeing people (usually on Reddit) expressing solidarity with "based," but I always read it as "biased" and assume they are ready to fight. 

[Milburn Stone]

I had never heard of this usage of "based" until reading your post, @Zella, but Urban Dictionary came to my rescue to tell me what it means! I'm meeting my old people posse (irony intended) for lunch later today and intend to use it at least five times in conversation. They will be amazed how I'm up to date with the latest lingo!

Based.

[shapeshifter]

  On 9/29/2021 at 1:39 PM, Milburn Stone said:

I had never heard of this usage of "based" until reading your post, @Zella,

Expand  

Neither have I heard "based" used this way. 
*Sigh* 
I knew this day was coming as soon as I was given an offer I couldn't refuse to retire as a college reference librarian.
Or maybe it's just that I've been neglecting to watch TMZ once a week to keep up on pop culture in order to be on the same page with the students.

A contextually better example than what Urban Dictionary offers would be appreciated.🙃

Edited September 30, 2021 by shapeshifter

[Zella]

I've only seen it this year! I think it must be pretty new. We used to have a teenager who worked at my library during the summers who would teach current slang to us, but he has since moved on to college and I no longer have a slang tutor. But I still remember his lessons about "lowkey" after he used it in what seemed to me as a weird way. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

  On 9/28/2021 at 4:04 PM, Zella said:

I usually don't mind slang and even kind of enjoy it, but I'm still trying to wrap my mind around "based." I keep seeing people (usually on Reddit) expressing solidarity with "based," but I always read it as "biased" and assume they are ready to fight. 

Expand  

Is that what that's supposed to mean? I'm seeing it on Facebook a lot, so the usage is spreading.

[shapeshifter]

From my Twitter feed:

[Milburn Stone]

This does come up on TV a lot, but it comes up everywhere else too, and it's been troubling me lately. The phrase "if not" can mean two diametrically opposite things, with no way to tell which meaning is intended.

Case in point: "The situation was made dangerous, if not life-threatening."

Meaning #1: The situation was made dangerous, although not life-threatening.

Meaning #2: The situation was made dangerous, and very possibly life-threatening!

 

[shapeshifter]

  On 12/3/2021 at 6:31 PM, Milburn Stone said:

This does come up on TV a lot, but it comes up everywhere else too, and it's been troubling me lately. The phrase "if not" can mean two diametrically opposite things, with no way to tell which meaning is intended.

Case in point: "The situation was made dangerous, if not life-threatening."

Meaning #1: The situation was made dangerous, although not life-threatening.

Meaning #2: The situation was made dangerous, and very possibly life-threatening!

Expand  

Isn't it usually #2? 

ETA: Greater context can be everything.

Edited December 3, 2021 by shapeshifter

[Milburn Stone]

  On 12/3/2021 at 6:59 PM, shapeshifter said:

Isn't it usually #2? 

ETA: Greater context can be everything.

Expand  

I think context with this is only possible with the spoken word. Alarm in the voice, and yes, it's #2. No way to tell on the printed page.

(Next time you come across it on the printed page, put it to the test, and see if the two opposite interpretations are about as likely as each other.)

[Annber03]

This is a mouthful of a headline: 

 

[shapeshifter]

  On 12/6/2021 at 5:30 AM, Annber03 said:

This is a mouthful of a headline: 

 

Expand  

This👆is what happens when the copy editor has no writing skills.  

[LexieLily]

  On 12/6/2021 at 5:30 AM, Annber03 said:

This is a mouthful of a headline: 

 

Expand  

Well, it would have been a medical miracle if she gave birth before getting pregnant with his child. 

[shapeshifter]

  On 12/6/2021 at 6:55 AM, shapeshifter said:

This👆is what happens when the copy editor has no writing skills.  

Expand  

Or maybe this is what happens when there is no copy editor?

Upon further checking, it appears to me that a Twitter or other social media algorithm may have contributed to this unfortunate string of words by cropping them for length from the only slightly less egregious wording seen on this page:   
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10273929/Personal-trainer-Maralee-Nichols-gives-birth-NBA-star-Tristan-Thompsons-baby-dad-time.html 

  Quote

EXCLUSIVE: Personal trainer Maralee Nichols, 31, gives birth to NBA star Tristan Thompson's baby after she became pregnant with his child and 'he insisted she get an abortion' while he was still dating Khloe Kardashian

Expand  

But is it acceptable in British English to say that someone “fell pregnant,” as is stated further down that page?

  Quote

At one point, Thompson insisted his personal trainer lover get an abortion and offered her $75,000 in hush money after she fell pregnant while he was still dating Khloe Kardashian, court filings claim.

Expand  

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by shapeshifter

[supposebly]

  On 12/6/2021 at 12:53 PM, shapeshifter said:

that someone “fell pregnant,”

Expand  

It makes it sound like some sort of Victorian made-up disease. Like "the vapors".

[shapeshifter]

  On 12/6/2021 at 2:07 PM, supposebly said:

It makes it sound like some sort of Victorian made-up disease. Like "the vapors".

Expand  

Hah! That's sounds like a much better explanation of the derivation of the Brits saying "she fell pregnant" than the variety of acrobatics I was imagining!

[supposebly]

Or maybe like you fall down into some pregnancy pot hole.

[Bastet]

  On 12/6/2021 at 12:53 PM, shapeshifter said:

But is it acceptable in British English to say that someone “fell pregnant,”

Expand  

Yep, I've read/heard it several times.

[Annber03]

  On 12/6/2021 at 10:26 AM, LexieLily said:

Well, it would have been a medical miracle if she gave birth before getting pregnant with his child. 

Expand  

LOL, that's what some of the replies underneath that tweet were saying, too :D. Now THAT would be a headline!

[Milburn Stone]

Also, it seems problematic that the headline refers to the baby as his child. Isn't it theirs? Maybe "Personal trainer Marilee Nichols gives birth to boy conceived with NBA star Tristan Thompson."

[Zella]

  On 12/6/2021 at 12:53 PM, shapeshifter said:

Or maybe this is what happens when there is no copy editor?

Expand  

Yeah as a freelance copyeditor, this strongly smells of "nobody copyedited this shit" to me. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Zella

[SuprSuprElevated]

  On 12/6/2021 at 12:53 PM, shapeshifter said:

But is it acceptable in British English to say that someone “fell pregnant,” as is stated further down that page?

Expand  

I'm old enough to remember hearing people use the term 'PG' to describe a pregnant woman, as I guess pregnant was just too scandalous a word to utter in public.  

[meowmommy]

I’m right this minute reading A Slow Fire Burning by Paula Hawkins, and dang if I didn’t just read on page 57:

  Quote

“After Carla fell pregnant, he was even less-minded to travel, and once the baby was born, less so still.”

Expand  

 

Edited December 8, 2021 by meowmommy

[Haleth]

Honestly, it sounds like she tripped and landed on his penis.  

I hate when that happens.

[AimingforYoko]

This a headline on a major site:

[Leeds]

Anymore when I'm doing Prime Rib. I do it on a rack in a half sheet.

Ignoring the fact that for some reason the author thinks two sentences are better than one, I can't stand the misuse of "anymore".

[Haleth]

  On 12/18/2021 at 12:02 PM, Leeds said:

Anymore when I'm doing Prime Rib. I do it on a rack in a half sheet.

Ignoring the fact that for some reason the author thinks two sentences are better than one, I can't stand the misuse of "anymore".

Expand  

I don't know what author you are quoting but anymore seems to be a Midwest thing.

[shapeshifter]

  On 12/18/2021 at 12:02 PM, Leeds said:

Anymore when I'm doing Prime Rib. I do it on a rack in a half sheet.

Ignoring the fact that for some reason the author thinks two sentences are better than one, I can't stand the misuse of "anymore".

Expand  

“Quoth the Raven ‘Nevermore.’” (Poe)
“Anymore when I'm doing Prime Rib.” (Midwesterner)

 

[Ohiopirate02]

I just saw this one over on Twitter, and I just do not know how it evolved--using distain for disdain.  It sets my teeth on edge just reading it, and I look disdainfully on those who make this error even if I agree with them.

[Zella]

  On 12/20/2021 at 6:10 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

I just saw this one over on Twitter, and I just do not know how it evolved--using distain for disdain.  It sets my teeth on edge just reading it, and I look disdainfully on those who make this error even if I agree with them.

Expand  

I'm having a hard time processing why anyone would do that. Also the internet tells me that distain is its own word meaning to discolor. Why not just bring back distain in all of its own glory instead of using it incorrectly? I distained the new hoodie I bought last week with chocolate from a cookie a couple of nights ago, though I disdain neither the cookie nor the hoodie. 

[shapeshifter]

  On 12/20/2021 at 6:15 PM, Zella said:

I'm having a hard time processing why anyone would do that. Also the internet tells me that distain is its own word meaning to discolor. Why not just bring back distain in all of its own glory instead of using it incorrectly? I distained the new hoodie I bought last week with chocolate from a cookie a couple of nights ago, though I disdain neither the cookie nor the hoodie. 

Expand  

I assume someone(s) typed "distain" because that's how the word sounded to them when they heard it pronounced, and then, since "distain" is a word, there was no autocorrect to signal it was not a word. 

But maybe just one person did that, and now many are copying?

[ABay]

What I find so depressing about things like distain, would of/could of/should of, all intensive purposes, etc. is that people who do that shit have apparently never read a book.

It's especially depressing when I read one of those here. Would of seems popular.

Edited December 20, 2021 by ABay

[SoMuchTV]

  On 12/20/2021 at 6:10 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

I just saw this one over on Twitter, and I just do not know how it evolved--using distain for disdain.  It sets my teeth on edge just reading it, and I look disdainfully on those who make this error even if I agree with them.

Expand  

Interesting to see this posted now.  I don't think I had ever seen that usage before (literally!) until a few days ago when someone on a different forum used it 3 times in the same post.  I briefly thought, would it be a kindness to pm the poster to let them know, so they don't end up using it in a powerpoint in front of their boss?  Then I though, naahh...  It probably didn't help that even though they seemed otherwise fairly literate, I did tend to not agree with them.

Edited December 20, 2021 by SoMuchTV

[Anduin]

  On 12/20/2021 at 6:10 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

I just saw this one over on Twitter, and I just do not know how it evolved--using distain for disdain.  It sets my teeth on edge just reading it, and I look disdainfully on those who make this error even if I agree with them.

Expand  

I like to think I'm pretty good with words. Not perfect, but pretty good. Until today, I didn't realise that it's disdain. I pronounce it with a t, so I'd probably spell it that way. Once again, English fails to make sense.

[JustHereForFood]

  On 12/20/2021 at 7:15 PM, ABay said:

What I find so depressing about things like distain, would of/could of/should of, all intensive purposes, etc. is that people who do that shit have apparently never read a book.

Expand  

Or maybe they do it on purpose? My peeve is with intentionally misspelled words, like boi or smol. I don't visit Tumblr where this seems to have originated, but it seems to be popular now even in other places on the internet. (I know I probably should not comment on someone's English since it's not my first language, but it makes me irritated when I had to learn those words by heart and can just see that it's wrong.)

[Irlandesa]

  On 12/21/2021 at 5:36 PM, JustHereForFood said:

Or maybe they do it on purpose? My peeve is with intentionally misspelled words, like boi or smol. I don't visit Tumblr where this seems to have originated, but it seems to be popular now even in other places on the internet.

Expand  

Boi predates Tumblr by decades.  It's about 30 years old.  And it's specific to a certain slang pronunciation in my head. I believe it started in hip hop culture.  Then it was adopted by skater culture. 

As a native English speaker, I appreciate that there are layers to why it exists.  But as someone who learns foreign languages, this kind of thing drive me crazy in those languages because sometimes I don't see what the misspelled word is supposed to refer to.

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Irlandesa

[SVNBob]

  On 12/21/2021 at 5:36 PM, JustHereForFood said:

My peeve is with intentionally misspelled words, like boi or smol.

Expand  

To my understanding, "smol" has a very specific meaning: small and impossibly adorable.  For example:

Mama cat is small.  The kitten is smol.

[Llywela]

  On 12/22/2021 at 7:18 AM, SVNBob said:

To my understanding, "smol" has a very specific meaning: small and impossibly adorable.  For example:

Mama cat is small.  The kitten is smol.

Expand  

Yeah. Generally speaking, when this kind of deliberately false spelling catches on, it means it has become a word in and of itself in the language of the internet - in the same way that corners of the internet also have a distinct grammar and syntax that probably wouldn't be used elsewhere. It's all part of how language evolves.

(I agree that poor spelling and grammar can be annoying. But this particular example is something entirely different because it isn't a typo, it is a specific linguistic construct)

[BlackberryJam]

The actual misspelling that makes my eye twitch? Tounge. It's spelled tongue. It doesn't rhyme with lounge. 

[meowmommy]

  On 12/22/2021 at 7:54 PM, BlackberryJam said:

Tounge. It's spelled tongue. It doesn't rhyme with lounge. 

Expand  

Mercifully, I've never seen that abomination.

[Shelbie]

I’ve seen going rouge instead of going rogue. Makes me smile to think of someone using makeup to veer off course. 

[Ohiopirate02]

Another one that cracks me up is using loose for lose.  That extra O sure does change the meaning of some sentences.

[Annber03]

On a related note, I've seen people use "waste" when they mean "waist". So someone will talk about a person wrapping their arms around someone's "waste", which, uh....no. 

[meowmommy]

  On 12/22/2021 at 9:33 PM, Shelbie said:

I’ve seen going rouge instead of going rogue. Makes me smile to think of someone using makeup to veer off course. 

Expand  

I try to assume, charitably, that in those cases it's probably a typo.

[Zella]

My favorite misuse of a real word was about 10 years ago on some discussion board I have since long forgotten. Someone meant to complain about grisly nudity--I think they meant graphic but okay--but instead ranted quite extensively about grizzly nudity. I refrained from chiming in that bear asses bothered me too. 

[JustHereForFood]

  On 12/22/2021 at 9:33 PM, Shelbie said:

I’ve seen going rouge instead of going rogue. Makes me smile to think of someone using makeup to veer off course. 

Expand  

When it's the same letters, just in different order, I probably won't even notice. There was some research a while ago that the brain processes the text as if it were spelled correctly, if the first and the last letters are correct and the rest in the middle are all there, just in a different order.

[SuprSuprElevated]

  On 12/22/2021 at 10:05 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

Another one that cracks me up is using loose for lose.  That extra O sure does change the meaning of some sentences.

Expand  

And variations like "sorry for your lost", "it's hard to loose someone this time of year", or "I was shocked to see that he past away".

 

[WendyCR72]

  On 12/22/2021 at 10:05 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

Another one that cracks me up is using loose for lose.  That extra O sure does change the meaning of some sentences.

Expand  

OMG! That one is agonizing for former English-major me. It's everywhere!

[Leeds]

I just heard a "journalist" on Good Morning America talk about a performer "daybyooting" a new album.

[shapeshifter]

  On 12/25/2021 at 2:30 PM, Leeds said:

I just heard a "journalist" on Good Morning America talk about a performer "daybyooting" a new album.

Expand  

Google and I are gonna need more context.

[Leeds]

  On 12/25/2021 at 4:03 PM, shapeshifter said:

Google and I are gonna need more context.

Expand  

Sorry!  I think she meant "debuting".