S27.E11: Finale and After the Final Rose

[Lamb18]

Kaity sounds like she memorized her speech.

[b2H]

Kaity won the game, but I don’t think she won the prize.

[Lamb18]

The ring is too big for her finger.

[Riplet68]

Why doesn't Zach look happy? Sitting there next to Jesse, He looks like he's about to throw up. Maybe cause of his encounter he just had with Gabi?

I hope He and Katy are still together and can make it work. It would be nice for a change. Watching all that had to be hard for Katy though.  Which I know zach was trying to avoid THAT particular drama (the pick being blindsided by what happened when the lead was on other dates), but still, did she know all the stuff he told Gabi?

Edited March 28, 2023 by Riplet68

[EllenB]

Kaity could do so.much better, but I guess she's happy. He made some dumb moves, but he's not entirely loathsome, and the final four women were probably the nicest bunch in a very long time.

[Lamb18]

He looks like he's holding back tears.

[JenE4]

Did Zach just pull the old American Idol fake out, “I’m sorry to tell you…. … … … You’re going to Hollywooooood!” Kind of hard to feel happy for them after the wringer he just put Gabi through. But Kaity was my pick from night one. So I feel like despite this sudden turn, I do want to be happy for them.

[hyacinth]

Why do I never like the lead at the end?    (Andrew Firestone, I do not mean you.)

[SallyAlbright]

2 minutes ago, EllenB said:

Kaity could do so.much better, but I guess she's happy. He made some dumb moves, but he's not entirely loathsome, and the final four women were probably the nicest bunch in a very long time.

He made some huge mistakes, but he had very good taste in his final four. All of them were lovely and seem genuinely nice. 

[Diana Berry]

6 minutes ago, SallyAlbright said:

Yep, I liked that because this show messes with everyone, including the leads. Look how everyone now hates Zach and is calling him scum and a sociopath, etc. Clayton admitted after his season last year that he received death threats and had extreme mental health issues and suicidal thoughts etc. So did Tino after Rachel's season. I'm sure Zach will now face the onslaught and yes he was a dumbass but he didn't murder anyone. Gabi is humiliated, Zach will be raked over the coals and Kaity will probably also be hurt all so the producers could drum up some extra drama. 

I like the pretty people and the pretty places and find this show entertaining so I guess I'm part of the problem. But I don't think the show needs to go so far to humiliate all of the people involved. They pressure the lead and the contestants into doing things that are out of character or that they later regret and then they leave them with no help or counseling afterwards.

We will never know if production told Zach to handle things about that night and if he was just following the script for ratings.  Im Sure there is an nda and he has to be the goat in the press. 

[phlebas]

Just now, hyacinth said:

 

Just now, hyacinth said:

Why do I never like the lead at the end?    (Andrew Firestone, I do not mean you.)

Avoid the rush, hate them from the start

[Riplet68]

I've pretty much never liked the male lead. Nick was the first Male season I watched, and I liked him, but any of the men since then....not really.  Peter was just slimy seeming, Clayton was lost and kind of an idiot, Colton just didn't register, I didn't watch the dude before MIchelle I didn't even watch because he just seemed so boring

Saying all that, I went into this season without a lot of hope, but I really liked it. The women were pretty much great, and I really like Zach.  He just made a mistake in his attempt to keep everything on the up and up, so I totally understand why he did what he did...just his timing of his discussions with eveyrone wasn't good

Edited March 28, 2023 by Riplet68

[phlebas]

2 minutes ago, phlebas said:

 

I should not have tried to out-drink Jesse. I can't operate this chat room now

[alexa]

And he says he knew it was her and had to wait.  So don’t tell Gabi you didn’t know until the night before.

[b2H]

Just now, alexa said:

And he says he knew it was her and had to wait.  So don’t tell Gabi you didn’t know until the night before.

The hypocrisy is complete.  He kept her because she was easier to let go in the finale than Ariel.  I have seen this pattern before.  Now, Gabi knows all of it.

[phlebas]

2 minutes ago, Riplet68 said:

I've pretty much never liked the male lead. Nick was the first Male season I watched, and I liked him, but any of the men since then....not really.  Peter was just slimy seeming, Clayton was lost and kind of an idiot, Colton just didn't register, I didn't watch the dude before MIchelle I didn't even watch because he just seemed so boring

My first Bachelor season was Arie's.  Like Zach, he had a GREAT group of women.  Like Zach, he was boring AF and didn't deserve them.  But I hope Zach & Kaity end up as happy as Arie and (eventually) Lauren

[Lamb18]

I wonder if he was nervous about how Kaity would react to his scene with Gabi, and that was why he seemed serious before she came out.

[Riplet68]

oooo....I forgot Arie...I hated him

[phlebas]

Zach's moving to Austin?  I thought he already lived in Austin

[FlyingEgret]

The whole Fantasy Night Week storyline still feels hinky to me. Like it was all made up and Gabbi drew "the one to sleep with Zach" short straw. And the only reason to do that is because Zach and Kaity were a lock from Night One and as Gabi said, "sex sells"

Full disclosure - I am not here for the right reasons and don't trust Reality TV at all...

[SallyAlbright]

3 minutes ago, phlebas said:

Zach's moving to Austin?  I thought he already lived in Austin

I assume he lived/lives in Austin but has been in LA for several months now between The Bachelorette, then the Bachelor and all the press commitments for it. His parents are in CA so maybe he just stayed with them in between? I wish Jesse had clarified. 

[MissPriss]

Zack is so excited for Charity to be put through the wringer like he was. Some friend. 🙃

[phlebas]

I am going to start pre-hating this Undercover Brother twist now.  For like nine reasons.

[Lamb18]

Is Charity's brother going to live in the house--I guess he is!

I wonder if he will be the next Bachelor and he's on Bachelorette so America can get to know him.

[JenE4]

Okay, we all loved Charity’s brother, but that “disguise” was hilariously bad. If he was really “undercover” he could have dressed as himself—I didn’t recognize him, and I really liked him on hometowns. I’m glad he’ll be there. I bet he’ll give her good advice on who’s There for the Right Reasons.

[kazza]

12 minutes ago, SallyAlbright said:

He made some huge mistakes, but he had very good taste in his final four. All of them were lovely and seem genuinely nice. 

Agree. It’s the first season in a very long time that the lead and women all displayed normal feelings and didn’t act out for their 15 minutes of fame. Both Ariel and Gabi were articulate in calling out Zach’s mistakes, and he owned his missteps. 

Oh and my interest in the next season of the Bachelorette just went up to a 15 out of 10. Well done show, well done. 

 

[GracieK]

I hope Charity doesn’t spend all season licking her teeth. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

I am flabbergasted at how incredibly boring that entire finale was.  The only interesting part was Charity, so at least something good to look forward to.  All the stuff that Gabi complained about has been the normal parts/tradition of the show since day 1 so I left confused about all that, but honestly, I will forget this all happened in 5 minutes.

[Katie111]

I wanted Jesse to ask Zach why he slept with Gabi.  That’s the part of this whole thing that made no sense to me.  And then maybe follow up with “then how does Kaity trust you if you can’t not have sex with someone?”.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, GracieK said:

Kaity has seemed extremely medicated both meeting his parents and on her date with Zach. Or maybe she’s just really drunk.

OH MY GOD.  I said that she was putting me to sleep, too!  Does she always talk like that?  Then Gabi started whispering this episode too and I was like ARE BOTH OF THEM LIKE THAT?

[Katie111]

1 minute ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

OH MY GOD.  I said that she was putting me to sleep, too!  Does she always talk like that?  Then Gabi started whispering this episode too and I was like ARE BOTH OF THEM LIKE THAT?

I found Kaity’s voice almost intolerable this episode.  I don’t know if it was just because she was shown a lot more than in other episodes or if it really was more annoying.
 

Gabi looked beautiful in every scene.  I especially loved her outfit meeting the parents.   Kaity is really beautiful but I think she could use a cut, color and a keratin. 
 

Zach came across so fake tonight.  He just opens his mouth and says nothing.  

An I the only one that didn’t find Zach’s family living up to their “fun” reputation?  His mom was nice, his dad seemed a bit like Zach (too rehearsed), and his sisters seemed pretty disinterested.  They seem nice enough but I was seeing a “super fun” family. 

[tinkerbell]

Gabi knew, and let us know she knew, when she stepped out of the limo and admonished producers not to let Kaity step out into the mud. She knew Kaity was meeting Zach after her, so Kaity was getting the proposal. 

[nickp1991]

this season was going to end badly when Neil Lane couldn't be bothered to show up

[Melonie77]

40 minutes ago, Lamb18 said:

Is Charity's brother going to live in the house--I guess he is!
I wonder if he will be the next Bachelor and he's on Bachelorette so America can get to know him.

I bet the producers had their interns reading social media and forums and realized Charity's pick as Bachelorette was disappointing to a huge number of people.
Further sleuthing on their part led them to discover some thought Charity's brother was cute when they saw him during HomeTowns. Perhaps they came to the conclusion that they would need something extra to make up for a boring lead.
So they came up with this gimmick to try to get people to watch.
Not working on me. I've had enough of producer manipulation for now.
Charity was stiff and dull in the few minutes Jesse interviewed her on her first night...a night that should be exciting and lively! I'm still not watching her season and can always find out what happened with her brother from news sites at the end of the season.

They managed to make Gabby and Rachel double bachelorettes even though they ended up #'s 2 and 3 on the Clayton season. The show should have found a way to go with Gabi or Ariel from this season for this current bachelorette. After what Gabi was put through she deserved to be made a lead.

[Recyclorette]

The way Gabi handled Zach after his rejection was so satisfying!  She was so dignified in refusing to listen to his BS.  And she was positively stunning tonight in both her appearance and her Zach take down.  Go Gabi, you are amazing!  You deserve better than this loser.

Charity's preview, though . . . that foolishness with her brother was beyond stupid, even for this show.  I hate silly stunts like that.  Just one more reason not to watch.  

 

[Melonie77]

12 minutes ago, Recyclorette said:

Charity's preview, though . . . that foolishness with her brother was beyond stupid, even for this show.  I hate silly stunts like that.  Just one more reason not to watch.  

Thank you!
They are trying to manipulate people into watching a disappointing choice for a lead.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Melonie77

[Melonie77]

I still like Zach and think he had good intentions but he didn't think the no-sex plan out well enough. He said Sean gave him the idea but perhaps he didn't consider that Sean let his choice of no-sex be known much earlier - I think from the start. And Sean's decision was made public to everyone at the same time - not to each girl individually while on the overnight date.

I like Zach and Kaity as a couple and hope she can get past the mistakes he made last week. Based on how emotional she was with his family I think she was really upset by the way the end developed especially since she and Gabi were so close. We certainly never saw her depressed and tipsy or seemingly medicated like that before!

Here's a cute clip with the two women drinking and getting silly in a hot tub before home towns week...

 

[Melonie77]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I am flabbergasted at how incredibly boring that entire finale was.  The only interesting part was Charity, so at least something good to look forward to.  All the stuff that Gabi complained about has been the normal parts/tradition of the show since day 1 so I left confused about all that, but honestly, I will forget this all happened in 5 minutes.

The finale was too drawn out but I don't think Charity's season will be better than this one was. She was stiff and dull, sabotaged some of the other women, and constantly cried while dabbing at her eyes in a performative manner. 🙃

[Ms Blue Jay]

I really like her.

[Andyourlittledog2]

Listening to these three rehash their feelings over and over and over and over and over is a long slog for three hours. I have never been more bored. The slow negative energy that simply did not let up was just too much and three hours of it!  It's like a looooonnnng therapy session between these three, on air, facilitated by Jesse. I just can't with this again.

[Back Atcha]

3 hours ago, Melonie77 said:

I like Zach and Kaity as a couple and hope she can get past the mistakes he made last week.

I'm guessing they'll have different or no partners by Thanksgiving.

4 hours ago, Recyclorette said:

Charity's preview, though . . . that foolishness with her brother was beyond stupid, even for this show.  I hate silly stunts like that.  Just one more reason not to watch.  

We're to presume that his get-up will fool most of the men on the show.  EGAD!  I'm not a regular watcher and I gave too much of my time to Zach et al.  I don't plan to watch the next season.

[Back Atcha]

5 hours ago, Lamb18 said:

The ring is too big for her finger.

Wouldn't it be nice to know that it fit Gabi's.  Wouldn't it be nice for GABI?

 

5 hours ago, Lamb18 said:

He looks like he's holding back tears.

Not often enough.

 

5 hours ago, GracieK said:

I hope Charity doesn’t spend all season licking her teeth. 

And CRYING!  Her make-up was fabulous...rarely any little "rivers" of tearstains 

[SallyAlbright]

8 hours ago, SallyAlbright said:

I assume he lived/lives in Austin but has been in LA for several months now between The Bachelorette, then the Bachelor and all the press commitments for it. His parents are in CA so maybe he just stayed with them in between? I wish Jesse had clarified. 

Here's what Zach tells PEOPLE:

But first Shallcross can't wait to move back to Austin, where Biggar recently relocated.

"I've been itching to get back," he says. "With filming, it's kept me in L.A. and California — it's cool and all, but it's no Austin. I can't wait to spend [time] with Kaity and just be out in public."

[Jax7917]

I haven't watched yet so not looking at comments but I am trying to watch on Hulu as I usually do the next day and it's not on there. Anyone know why and when it will be on?

[bosawks]

I do think this process grinds you down and quite possibly makes you clinically insane and I don't think that Zach was blessed with a personality that handles stressors particularly well.

I can't envision what on earth a lifetime of Zach conversations could possibly entail but that being said he doesn't seem like a complete sociopath and she seems nice enough, so, good luck kids!

[SallyAlbright]

5 minutes ago, bosawks said:

I do think this process grinds you down and quite possibly makes you clinically insane and I don't think that Zach was blessed with a personality that handles stressors particularly well.

I can't envision what on earth a lifetime of Zach conversations could possibly entail but that being said he doesn't seem like a complete sociopath and she seems nice enough, so, good luck kids!

I obviously do not know him and never will, but as a fellow people pleaser I recognize signs of that in him. He seems genuinely rattled and upset when other people don't like him or react badly to him, which is also something I struggle with. I know that if I had seen Gabi so upset because of my actions and had her (politely) scold me on live TV, I would have still been very rattled and upset and basically felt terrible by the time Kaity came out. I wasn't surprised that he still looked a bit distracted even though he genuinely seems smitten with Kaity. When I hurt someone or screw up, I have a very hard time not dwelling on it and frantically try to make things right (and often that's not the right approach). 

His attempt to be "the good Bachelor" and declare sex off the table is another example to me of him trying to do what he thinks is the right thing and will make people think well of him, but he's human and messed up. People pleasing and wanting everyone to like you can be very difficult but can also end up hurting the people around you (as evidenced by his burning desire to be honest upsetting both Gabi and Kaity). It's something I've really had to work on as an adult and hopefully after this Zach will learn more about himself, relax with Kaity and not read what people think of him on social media! 

Kaity seems awesome, confident, mature and easygoing so she might actually be a great match for him. He and Gabi both seem to worry a lot about what other people think of them and I can totally relate but they may have stressed one another out. 

[DEL901]

I wonder if some of Zach’s people pleasing tendencies can be traced back to that story his dad told about them being so devastated when they were told he was certain to die.  Now he never wants to cause anyone any problems.   Somewhere in one of the interviews one of his family said Zach even used to tattle on himself when he misbehaved.  He needs everyone to be happy with him.  Kaity might be the best person because she seems to be low drama.  

[SallyAlbright]

31 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

I wonder if some of Zach’s people pleasing tendencies can be traced back to that story his dad told about them being so devastated when they were told he was certain to die.  Now he never wants to cause anyone any problems.   Somewhere in one of the interviews one of his family said Zach even used to tattle on himself when he misbehaved.  He needs everyone to be happy with him.  Kaity might be the best person because she seems to be low drama.  

She seems low drama and carries herself with a quiet confidence that is really attractive and I would think calming to be around. He seemed to visibly relax around her for most of this season in a way that wasn't shown with some of the other (also amazing) women. 

[Back Atcha]

1 hour ago, SallyAlbright said:

She seems low drama and carries herself with a quiet confidence that is really attractive and I would think calming to be around.

Yeah...what happened with Gabi?  She was all fun and games for most of the season.  Did some production assistant tell her that she NEEDS to "bring the drama."  Is THAT when she became a bundle of "not good enough" insecurities? And OMG.."second, second choice, second place, got the second rose."  Just wait a second!

Edited March 28, 2023 by Back Atcha

[Recyclorette]

12 hours ago, Melonie77 said:

Thank you!
They are trying to manipulate people into watching a disappointing choice for a lead.

Exactly.  Wouldn't be surprising if they've already chosen the brother as the next bachelor.

It's getting to the point where this show is actually insulting.  Do they really think we're that enthralled with men taking showers?  Do they not see that we left silly stunts back in kindergarten?  Heck, they'll probably have the brother taking showers next season!

One last thought since the finale:  Zach is like a little kid who has to run his mouth whenever something is on his mind, with no regard for the impact of his words on his listener.  How long before Kaity gets real sick of that?