S05.E15: Possums, Pregnancy and Patriarchy

[Pallas]

Harris makes a big announcement. Meanwhile, Ben is overwhelmed with family responsibilities.

[MrsEVH]

On 2/21/2023 at 5:03 AM, Pallas said:

Harris makes a big announcement. Meanwhile, Ben is overwhelmed with family responsibilities.

I wonder if she's pregnant?

[chitowngirl]

31 minutes ago, MrsEVH said:

I wonder if she's pregnant?

🙄

[Browncoat]

What happened to Darlene's new job?

[Annber03]

"Well, I think we're overlooking the big picture here - Harris passed three tests!" 

Got a really good laugh out of that line XD. Also liked Becky's "Nobody wants to play tag with someone lying down. It's just two people tapping at each other." 

I tend to share Darlene's views on the idea of Harris having a kid, but I'm also not surprised Harris would choose to have the baby, so it'll be interesting to see how she deals with that and how the family helps with that going forward. I do agree with Mark that I think Harris will turn out to be a good mom - his thing about how she looked out for and took care of him was sweet. 

But yeah, Ben freaking out, I can sympathize with that, too :p.

[StaceyNotStacie]

8 minutes ago, Browncoat said:

What happened to Darlene's new job?

I thought the person hiring her said it wouldn’t start for a few weeks. 
 

If Harris is moving in with Darlene and Ben, Becky and Beverly Rose should move back in with Dan. She wouldn’t have to live in the basement anymore since is very one else is gone. 

[DanaK]

I’m surprised yet not that Darlene, despite her misgivings, told Harris she’ll fully support her and the baby. That’s probably the best option for a young woman who doesn’t have much money and the dad isn’t in the picture

[greekmom]

30 minutes ago, StaceyNotStacie said:

I thought the person hiring her said it wouldn’t start for a few weeks. 
 

If Harris is moving in with Darlene and Ben, Becky and Beverly Rose should move back in with Dan. She wouldn’t have to live in the basement anymore since is very one else is gone. 

Didn't Dan turn the basement into a greenhouse for the pot?

I just don't believe the show went there with Harris.  She is a young woman, with little education, menial job and and now she's decided to have the baby.  I can't believe show went there.

I feel bad for Ben. He doesn't deserve this shit.

Becky needs to smarten up with her finances. If she was renting from a stranger, they wouldn't be so forgiving with her being late with the rent. 

But I agree that if Harris moves in with Ben and Darlene, then Becky can certainly move in upstairs in Dan's house.  Where is Mark living? At Dan's or Darlene's?

[Arcadiasw]

Welp Ben you saw the disfunction before you married Darlene and you still wanted to do it. You can’t complain now.

[txhorns79]

9 minutes ago, greekmom said:

I just don't believe the show went there with Harris.  She is a young woman, with little education, menial job and and now she's decided to have the baby.  I can't believe show went there.

I suppose there is some realism in that this is how a cycle of poverty continues through generations within one family.  More to the point though, I view this as a sign the writers weren't sure what to do with the character, so they do this to her.    

[UYI]

You know, I COULD go on a rant about how the show YET AGAIN dropped the ball on the opportunity for Jackie to discuss her experience having Andy as a single mother after she realized that Harris is pregnant...but I would rather not give myself a fucking stroke in the process, so I won't. (My apologies to y'all for not going on the rant of a lifetime over this...I giveth and I taketh away...or I wait to talk about it more in the History thread, take your pick.)

But as a certified Darlene hater more often than not at this point, I do find it fitting that Harris wound up pregnant at roughly the same time that Darlene wound up pregnant with her, so:

[greekmom]

And no mention of Harris telling her father.  Did you see the retcon by Darlene how David was absent parent the whole time?

 

[Bastet]

Holy fuck.  I will go buy a field in which every TV writer who can’t think of any big storylines for their female characters other than things revolving around pregnancy – thinking they’re pregnant, wishing they were pregnant, being pregnant – can be drawn and quartered if it will stop this nonsense.

I appreciate the realism of generational poverty exacerbated by young women of the working class being saddled with children, but come the entirety of hell on in the context of this particular show.  We've seen it.  Again and again.  Harris has been smart about this shit all along, from getting the morning after pill when she wasn’t sure if she and her first partner had used the condom correctly to breaking up with Aldo when he wanted to use her as a brood mare, but now she’s not only knocked up but opting to parent in spite of all that is logical?

I will say, though, this wasn’t quite as awful as I’d have expected for this stupid-ass storyline:

- I loved Jackie realizing what was up and covering for Harris, and later telling her she'd had an abortion and feels nothing but relief (that's a past event we'd never heard before, but every survey ever conducted shows relief is the emotion most frequently felt by women who've had abortions, a reality not at all presented on TV, so I'll go with it).

- I also loved Darlene's desperate reaction, saying she wished she'd had Harris later, talking about the cycle of poverty, and snarking about Harris going up to Darlene's childhood room Harris will eventually pass on to her own pregnant kid.  But then, after Harris made the opposite decision, pledging to be there for her.

I still hate it, mind you, just not as much as I thought I would upon reading the episode title and description.

Moving on:

- In the opening scene, didn't Mark reference waking up at Dan's?  I thought he lived with Darlene and Ben.  Presumably he just slept there, but there was something a little odd about it.

- Ben's "Since I need every dime I can get as your entire family is living with me" needed to be said.  And I laughed at him grabbing three beers to faux congratulate Harris.

- Harris and Mark had another lovely scene together, with him reflecting on how she stepped in as a quasi-parent to him.  It's still a profoundly stupid idea to encourage someone because they'll make a good parent in time to crap out a kid now, but it's sweet.

[UYI]

That's another thing I forgot to mention earlier:

I'm perfectly fine with Jackie saying that she had an abortion, despite never saying anything about it before...and yet, it's STILL like Andy never existed to begin with. 

I know that I should WELL past surprised that this universe seems to forgot everything about Andy (and Fred, for that matter), and I won't dwell on it any further so as not to lead to both a stroke AND an embolism, but STILL.

This fucking show, man. 

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by UYI

[OLynn33]

Stumbled upon some speculation online when I was googling Harris the character's supposed age that the actress herself might be pregnant. Unconfirmed rumour apparently...

[Arcadiasw]

5 hours ago, greekmom said:

 

Becky needs to smarten up with her finances. If she was renting from a stranger, they wouldn't be so forgiving with her being late with the rent. 

 

I think Becky is smart and knows what she is doing: being that family member that takes advantage of others. If she wasn't renting from family, Becky would have the rent money on time

 

 

[Egg McMuffin]

The interesting thing about both Andy and Jerry (who still exists in this universe, as he was mentioned in the first season of the Roseanne revival): it would give the writers more story ideas if they used these characters. We could see Jackie as a parent. We could find out why Jerry doesn’t have much to do with the family.

I agree that Harris would not have a baby at her age, not after seeing how young marriages and parenthood hindered the previous generation’s prospects. But I’ve never bought the whole story arc for Becky either. I know they want a dynamic between her and Darlene that is similar to Roseanne and Jackie from the original series (the sarcastic grounded sister vs the flighty sister). But I don’t buy that this is the same Becky who was a straight A student in the original series, prior to her unfortunate recasting.

[greekmom]

4 hours ago, Egg McMuffin said:

The interesting thing about both Andy and Jerry (who still exists in this universe, as he was mentioned in the first season of the Roseanne revival): it would give the writers more story ideas if they used these characters. We could see Jackie as a parent. We could find out why Jerry doesn’t have much to do with the family.

I hope that Jerry is a successful at whatever and decided to not deal with these people who take advantage of family.

[Wizardpatch]

The real reason Becky wishes she had her kid 20 years ago is because she would have just had her mom take care of her. 

[Rocknrollzombie]

32 minutes ago, Wizardpatch said:

The real reason Becky wishes she had her kid 20 years ago is because she would have just had her mom take care of her. 

If it was original Becky, I don’t think she would just dump her kid on her parents, her or mark. Mark wouldn’t be for the idea he wouldn’t want Roseanne having the burden of taking care of his and Becky’s kid.

Conners version of Becky yeah for sure. 

[emmyG]

5 hours ago, Egg McMuffin said:

The interesting thing about both Andy and Jerry (who still exists in this universe, as he was mentioned in the first season of the Roseanne revival):

That was then. In The Conners they've specifically said Dan and Roseanne had only three children.

Just because we saw it with our own eyes doesn't mean it counts. Even the flashback footage gets edited to change the past.

They might change their minds again and have Jerry suddenly exist if they have an idea for him, but the way things are, we can't assume any continuity beyond any individual episode.

[Colorado David]

Interesting episode for a change, which I like. I agree with the earlier poster - Harris is way too smart to have an accident of this sort. Was her reason (which I cant recall correctly) for going off the pill valid? Was it feeling queasy or something like that?

and please remind me, the father....was this the twerp who tried to be a squatter in their house?

[marceline]

Under no circumstances should Harris be a mother. None. Abortion, adoption, selling the baby on the black market, whatever... Harris raising a child should not happen.

[kitkat343]

6 hours ago, Arcadiasw said:

I think Becky is smart and knows what she is doing: being that family member that takes advantage of others. If she wasn't renting from family, Becky would have the rent money on time

 

 

And it's pretty shocking to see her casually dump the soul sucking parenting tasks on Ben immediately after not paying her portion of the rent.

 Am I correct in understanding that she's still an undergraduate?  There's no way she should be taking in person classes if she can't handle working, being a parent and taking classes.  She doesn't have to enroll at the University of Phoenix or another expensive, low prestige for profit school; there are plenty of public universities that have online courses and degrees now.  If she has no money, then she needs to take online community college courses, then after two years transfer to the University of Illinois or another  public university with online degrees and then maybe for her graduate degree she can study in person if her field doesn't have online degrees.  

The actor playing Ben looks utterly exhausted and defeated; did anyone think for a second how hard it might be for him to take responsibility for Harris' kid when he is unable to have his own biological children if he stays married to Darlene.     It seems pretty unrealistic that a man in his position wouldn't run for the hills, but no reasonable man would have married Darlene given the fact that she cheated on him and treated him like garbage so maybe they'll stay together.

Edited February 23, 2023 by kitkat343

[One Tough Cookie]

Just popping in say I as really angry about la-da attitude Becky and Darlene had about the mortgage, not to mention Becky asked Ben to tye the shirt, and had the nerve to tell him to volunteer doing someone else's.  And Darlene making the unilateral decision that Harris will be moving in them w/o talking to Ben first.  He should get now. 

[greekmom]

1 hour ago, Colorado David said:

and please remind me, the father....was this the twerp who tried to be a squatter in their house?

Yep it was that twerp.  The fact that that POS is the father should be enough for Harris to rethink her decision.

[Egg McMuffin]

I really like the actor who plays Ben. He’s probably the only sympathetic character on the show. Run, Ben!

[iMonrey]

Quote

Holy fuck.  I will go buy a field in which every TV writer who can’t think of any big storylines for their female characters other than things revolving around pregnancy – thinking they’re pregnant, wishing they were pregnant, being pregnant – can be drawn and quartered if it will stop this nonsense.

Preach. I cannot tell you how unreasonably angry this episode made me. Aside from the fact that pregnancy stories are the imaginative equivalent of bankruptcy, Dan's cavalier attitude about just "making it work" when you can't afford children and Becky encouraging Harris to have a kid while she's still young made me hate both of them for their idiocy. Neither attitude takes into account the child itself, they are entirely selfish motivations that doom a child to a life where they will have to scrape and claw just to get by.

Quote

I'm perfectly fine with Jackie saying that she had an abortion

Jackie did not say she had an abortion. The episode was painfully conspicuous in avoiding usage of that word. God forbid they enrage anyone by raising the very practical issue that if Harris herself is opposed to abortion she might consider adoption. 

Quote

- In the opening scene, didn't Mark reference waking up at Dan's?  I thought he lived with Darlene and Ben.  Presumably he just slept there, but there was something a little odd about it.

No, Mark lives with Darlene and Ben. He said he woke up and nobody was home so he knew they had all gone over to Dan's. (I don't know how he got there though. Uber?)

[Wizardpatch]

1 hour ago, greekmom said:

Yep it was that twerp.  The fact that that POS is the father should be enough for Harris to rethink her decision.

I found it very unrealistic that no one besides Jackie seemed to be concerned that the homeless goober will be in their lives from now on or just a deadbeat dad.

Edited February 23, 2023 by Wizardpatch

[txhorns79]

2 hours ago, kitkat343 said:

 

The actor playing Ben looks utterly exhausted and defeated; did anyone think for a second how hard it might be for him to take responsibility for Harris' kid when he is unable to have his own biological children if he stays married to Darlene.

I can only hope they are building to some kind of blow up because Ben was treated very disrespectfully in this episode.  It was obvious that Darlene had not said a word to him about moving Harris into their home, and I can't even with that.  Someone needed to sit Harris down and talk with her about what it means to be the primary caregiver for a baby.  

[emmyG]

34 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Preach. I cannot tell you how unreasonably angry this episode made me. Aside from the fact that pregnancy stories are the imaginative equivalent of bankruptcy, Dan's cavalier attitude about just "making it work" when you can't afford children

Whatever happened to the Dan who was quietly angry and depressed about Darlene throwing her future away, even when she was far better situated to take care of a baby than Harris? (Darlene's sudden excitement about motherhood was totally out of left field, but at least she had a plan. And a partner, before they retconned him into a deadbeat.)

[kitkat343]

1 hour ago, Wizardpatch said:

I found it very unrealistic that no one besides Jackie seemed to be concerned that the homeless goober will be in their lives from now on or just a deadbeat dad.

I would guess that everyone else is assuming deadbeat dad.  But at this point, David is gone (and retconned into a deadbeat dad) and if I recall correctly Emilio hasn't been seen since he married another woman (and must be a deadbeat if everyone else is raising Beverly Rose) so aside from Dan  all the fathers seem to disappear.

 It's interesting to see the contrast between Jackie's husband and Ben; the extended family doesn't seem to be dumping their nonsense on him, and he even stood up to Becky and called her out on how badly she was treating Jackie and the rest of her family.

[Arcadiasw]

37 minutes ago, kitkat343 said:

 

 It's interesting to see the contrast between Jackie's husband and Ben; the extended family doesn't seem to be dumping their nonsense on him, and he even stood up to Becky and called her out on how badly she was treating Jackie and the rest of her family.

That's probably why they don't dump nonsense on him. They know he won't take it.

[Rocknrollzombie]

Okay so I saw the clip of Becky asking Ben to help BR with her tie dye project 🙄(mom of the damm year). “It’s due tomorrow, and I have class tonight.”
Talk about procrastination, what about the other hours of the day Becky couldn’t sit down with her kid and do the tie dye project.
 

 My nieces are both in community college and they have kids 9/8 and they make time for them help them with homework and get their own college work done.

And saying she doesn’t have the rent money because textbooks and clothes for Beverly rose. 

okay the textbook thing there are so many ways college students can get textbooks for free(cough pdf versions available on some sites) or joining a group on FB for her college where students trade and sell used textbooks.

as for the clothes what the hell is she buying for Beverly rose designer clothes..or something.

the more I learn about this season the more I’m glad I dropped the show like a brick.

Edited February 23, 2023 by Rocknrollzombie

[Yogisbooboo64]

5 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Someone needed to sit Harris down and talk with her about what it means to be the primary caregiver for a baby.  

THIS!

First of all, she gets pissy when the family has the audacity to be pissed/concerned about her irresponsible dumbass, then she expect everyone to fucking pitch in?!!  She reminds me of that selfish bitch Denise Huxtable-Kendall from The Cosby Show….goes to Africa to ‘work’ then comes home with a husband and annoying stepdaughter and gets upset because Cliff and Clair were rightfully angry at her choices. 

If Harris is so adamant on keeping the baby, then let her….I would tell her that I’m not lifting a finger, that’s your child, YOU raise her since you’re so goddamned all-knowing and grown.

While Ben had me cracking up this eppy, in thinking about it I felt bad for him.  I wonder if he is going to eventually blow up at everyone for taking him for granted.

 

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by Yogisbooboo64

[Bastet]

Another thing that bothers me about turning previously responsible (in terms of taking care of her reproductive health) Harris into a mother is that she and that loser were together for about five minutes and probably weren't monogamous -- if they'd been also using condoms like they should, her birth control problems wouldn't have resulted in a pregnancy.

[MissLucas]

Time to write some fan-fic where Ben never returns from that trip to get another pound cake. 

 

[Rocknrollzombie]

11 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Time to write some fan-fic where Ben never returns from that trip to get another pound cake. 

 

I volunteer as tribute to write it

[juliet73]

I'm really tired of the characters not saying anything on the other's entitlement.  Why is it Ben's responsibility to pick up school supplies for Beverly Rose and another student?  Becky doesn't have the rent either and he says nothing!  If she was living on her own, I doubt the landlord would be shopping for tie dyes and giving her a pass on not paying the rent on the time.  And Harris deciding to keep the baby, but telling Darlene and Ben that everyone should pitch in on night feedings and diaper changes.  They both sit there and say nothing.  Since when is it everyone else's responsibility to take care of HER baby?  She's lucky her family is providing her a roof over her head and other basic needs.  If Mark has a job at Whole Foods, why can't he pay for his field trip?

I didn't think Darlene's house was big enough to house all these people, but then again, I didn't think Dan's house was either.  I agree that Becky and BR should move back to Dan's and have Darlene and her kids should be living with her.  

Count me in the group that are frustrated about Jackie and her never mentioned before abortion, but Andy is still non existent.  

[StaceyNotStacie]

3 hours ago, Yogisbooboo64 said:

While Ben had me cracking up this eppy, in thinking about it I felt bad for him.  I wonder if he is going to eventually blow up at everyone for taking him for granted.

 

Since we’re already into February, I wonder if we’ll get a season finale where Ben finally snaps and storms out after an argument with Darlene and the cliffhanger is if he is going to return. 
 

I just hope this baby isn’t a premature birth like Harris and Beverly Rose were. Maybe she’ll have a boy and name him Conner to keep up the naming tradition. 

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Preach. I cannot tell you how unreasonably angry this episode made me. Aside from the fact that pregnancy stories are the imaginative equivalent of bankruptcy, Dan's cavalier attitude about just "making it work" when you can't afford children and Becky encouraging Harris to have a kid while she's still young made me hate both of them for their idiocy. Neither attitude takes into account the child itself, they are entirely selfish motivations that doom a child to a life where they will have to scrape and claw just to get by.

I was incredibly pissed just reading the premise. I knew what they were going to do. What cheap, lazy writing. I think I'm pretty much done with this show.

[One Tough Cookie]

36 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I think I'm pretty much done with this show.

I say that too, but it's a train wreck that you can't not stop and look at.

[ofmd]

I thought the writing had improved this season (not to 'really good,' but to 'quite bearable, sometimes even funny.' But now they believe that yet another unplanned baby storyline is a good idea?! Sorry, even if the actress is pregnant, have her sit behind plants or carry big bags, idc. It's almost as if the writers think that each and every poor woman is careless with her sexual health/ contraception. It's also incredibly lazy.

Boy, I'm having a tough week with my tv shows, even the good ones!

 

[peacheslatour]

Quote

I thought the writing had improved this season (not to 'really good,' but to 'quite bearable, sometimes even funny.' But now they believe that yet another unplanned baby storyline is a good idea?! Sorry, even if the actress is pregnant, have her sit behind plants or carry big bags, idc. It's almost as if the writers think that each and every poor woman is careless with her sexual health/ contraception. It's also incredibly lazy.

I think they must. It's horribly insulting. But like One Tough Cookie, I may be back. Mostly because I like all you so much.

[ofmd]

And Ben is mutating into a low-key alcoholic, just like Dan! Isn't that fun to watch?

Although, coming to think of it, didn't he and Darlene want a baby only a couple of seasons ago? I remember my eyeballs rolling to the back of my head. Be careful what you wish for...

I think I'm done. Abbott Elementary and Frasier rewatches will have to do for my comedy needs.

ETA: On the bright side, I think this show was already in the shark pool anyway.

Edited February 24, 2023 by ofmd

[CrystalBlue]

Just when you think this show can't get any worse or ridiculous, it does.  I wonder if this qualifies for jumping the shark.

[ams1001]

20 hours ago, Bastet said:

- In the opening scene, didn't Mark reference waking up at Dan's?  I thought he lived with Darlene and Ben.  Presumably he just slept there, but there was something a little odd about it.

He said when he woke up and found there was no food in the house he figured everyone was at Dan's.

(Go grocery shopping yourself, Darlene. Jeez.)

How many bedrooms are in this house, anyway? Once the baby comes they're gonna have 7 people living there?

[greekmom]

11 hours ago, kitkat343 said:

The actor playing Ben looks utterly exhausted and defeated; did anyone think for a second how hard it might be for him to take responsibility for Harris' kid when he is unable to have his own biological children if he stays married to Darlene.     It seems pretty unrealistic that a man in his position wouldn't run for the hills, but no reasonable man would have married Darlene given the fact that she cheated on him and treated him like garbage so maybe they'll stay together.

Wonder if the next storyline will be Ben has a heart attack. 

9 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Preach. I cannot tell you how unreasonably angry this episode made me. Aside from the fact that pregnancy stories are the imaginative equivalent of bankruptcy, Dan's cavalier attitude about just "making it work" when you can't afford children and Becky encouraging Harris to have a kid while she's still young made me hate both of them for their idiocy. Neither attitude takes into account the child itself, they are entirely selfish motivations that doom a child to a life where they will have to scrape and claw just to get by.

Jackie did not say she had an abortion. The episode was painfully conspicuous in avoiding usage of that word. God forbid they enrage anyone by raising the very practical issue that if Harris herself is opposed to abortion she might consider adoption. 

Remember Dan and Roseanne were the idiots that took that windfall from the cushy government job that Dan had and instead using to pay off the mortgage, sock it away on their 401K, or do something practical, they blew it all on a trip to Disney and took everyone and their mother.  That would have been at least a 50K trip.

[mythoughtis]

Harris feels able to assume that everyone will pitch in and raise her child because everyone has been mooching off Dan for  decades. Even when they move out they steal from his refrigerator. In addition they’ve already been raising Beverly Rose.  Neville’s lecture to Becky accomplished nothing 

Edited February 24, 2023 by mythoughtis

[Colorado David]

This generation. Hell every generation past 2000. It's about MY feelings, not everybody else's, nor the unborns to come. NO thinking ahead, just tiktok NOWNOWNOW how do i feel and act. Sorry but thinking ahead has been gone and left behind with current society.