S16.E06: You Dropped a Bomb on Me

[FSC2930]

Lots of different semantics going on here.

I don’t like Gina or Clint, so I’m not on either of their “teams.” But, I had to take Clint’s side when she started in on him. She did tell him multiple times she didnt like his looks (“heard”). She did start that stuff in front of everyone about the physical attraction problems. Ginger IS an insult when you use it as a descriptor of someone you arent attracted to, and make faces and word exaggerations to go along with it (“ginger-y fea-TURES” and “GIN-geeerrrrr.”) Ugh. She asked for it.

However, there shouldnt be a male human alive that doesnt know you will be taken to the castle with torches for criticizing a woman’s weight, in public, in front of 4 other women, 3 of which are not thin, either. Clueless. Not reading the room, indeed. And worse, he needed to be walked through it by the Afterparty hostess to understand what he did wrong. He’s a clueless dude.

I don’t think Clint was equating slender and athletic, though. He was taking his turn to return a shot at her and was reaching and panicking for words that werent “not thin” or “fat.” I guarantee his preference in women are waaaay closer to “slender” than “athletic.”  Athletic sounded safe to him. Theres a ton of thin, very athletic women out there, but just as many medium to stout, not slender athletic women, too. I just think he was babbling and trying not to say slim vs heavy.

The Afterparty said a lot. Gina did bring up not being thin. They did discuss this. And the fact is, even these women are quite clear that they arent slender. Dominyque called herself “thick” (apt description) and feared Mac might be expecting “a 100 pound girl.” Even Nicole who has curiously been called “petite” described the women as “5 beautiful women with natural bodies,” code for not thin. It really is odd that 4 of the 5 women are larger, with one (Nicole) very large.

I wish someone explained to Jas (Is that Shaq’s wife?) That Arris can recognize that his girl is both objectively beautiful (the beauty contest winner) and that he can find her not attractive due to some arbitrary detail. I actually think that way about Jas… an absolutely beautiful face, but way too large a bottom for me. Arris would disagree.

It slays me that Arris thinks her excellent shape is too small, particularly as compared to the other women. It almost feels like this opinion is conveniently plugged in to balance out the issues with the other women, on a show where so many of the women are bigger, and at least 4 of the total 5 couples arent attracted to each other.

Which begs the question, do the experts select people that they guess wont work out, just for conflict interest? Its interesting, because on a show where I think no one stays together, its been the most boring season yet.

[brilliantbreakfast]

On 2/10/2023 at 10:35 AM, Doublemint said:

All of these participants are, in a way, victims of the times they are living in.   Previous generations knew how to converse, conversation was an art.   They would never say anything to insult or be inappropriately blunt and clueless.   Second, women were thinner than what the average is now.   One rarely saw shapes like these girls have unless it was a woman who had children and was older.  It probably has to do with the junk food and lots of eating out, etc.  As someone mentioned earlier, the women on the Bachelor don't look like this, so it's possible in this day and age, but not easy.    Please don't hate me, I'm an old lady now, but I see the difference so clearly because I lived at a time that was very different.  This doesn't mean things were great and there wasn't injustice - it merely refers to the way people were raised to interact in social situations.

Well I am 67 and a) I don't think these girls are particularly large, except perhaps for Nicole; and b) There were plenty of overweight people when I was a kid (including me). You're on to something about being raised how to interact in social situations. These people have spent much of their lives on smartphones or on the internet, whether it was messageboards or social media.  Young people now will text each other while sitting next to each other. It's all about the phone -- how many likes you get, who's looking at your bikini shot or your abs, who's out there better looking than the person or people you're with.

Dating? Dating is more superficial than ever. Yes, it was always about looks, but when you met people in person you either a) were attracted to their looks immediately; or b) you might not find them terribly attractive physically but you enjoyed the conversation, or they were a good dancer.

Until the 1970s, models were people that were mostly seen by women and girls, outside of Playboy, which not every boy had.  And there was more recognition of the difference between fantasy and reality. Now, with social media, Instagram, and filters, anyone can look better than they actually do, and people have more access to images of conventionally attractive people than they used to. Life is no longer about living, it's about showing it off on social media. EVERYTHING is a trophy to be compared with your friends' -- partner, travel, kids, house, etc. So what you get is people like Kirsten, with a checklist. Or Alyssa from a few seasons ago with her cowboy fantasy. And guys like Airris and Nate and Olajuwon -- players who think they can stop playing. Now it's swipe, swipe, swipe, until you see someone who looks like your fantasy. And if you're not theirs, you say dating doesn't work and you sign up for a show like this...except you still have your checklist and you think these "experts" whose job is to create entertaining TV will fulfill it.

It seems everyone on this show at this point is on it for the recognition -- the reality show "stardom." You watch the matchmaking and it's all about me me me me me -- they never talk about building a life, or sharing a life, or being there for someone else. It's all about "I'm ready" or "It's time" or "I want a baby." I'll bet not one of the people on this show have ever done the work to figure out why they're not meeting the kind of people they want, or whether what they want is realistic, or even exists.

When you look at the couples who ARE still together, they are there through sheer hard work, commitment and persistence. Many of them have gone through rough times together (Doug/Jamie, Jamie/Beth, Shawniece/Jephte) but have managed to make it work or keep trying. All they get today is people who check out when what they want isn't waiting for them at their matched-for-TV wedding.

[Retired at last]

39 minutes ago, FSC2930 said:

And worse, he needed to be walked through it by the Afterparty hostess to understand what he did wrong. He’s a clueless dude.

Sounds like Mitch from last season, who also had no idea what impact his words had.

[Elizzikra]

Quote

Jas (Is that Shaq’s wife?) 

No. Jasmine is married to Airiss and Kirsten (not KRistin) is married to Shaq.

[Doublemint]

4 hours ago, brilliantbreakfast said:

Well I am 67 and a) I don't think these girls are particularly large, except perhaps for Nicole; and b) There were plenty of overweight people when I was a kid (including me). You're on to something about being raised how to interact in social situations. These people have spent much of their lives on smartphones or on the internet, whether it was messageboards or social media.  Young people now will text each other while sitting next to each other. It's all about the phone -- how many likes you get, who's looking at your bikini shot or your abs, who's out there better looking than the person or people you're with.

Dating? Dating is more superficial than ever. Yes, it was always about looks, but when you met people in person you either a) were attracted to their looks immediately; or b) you might not find them terribly attractive physically but you enjoyed the conversation, or they were a good dancer.

Until the 1970s, models were people that were mostly seen by women and girls, outside of Playboy, which not every boy had.  And there was more recognition of the difference between fantasy and reality. Now, with social media, Instagram, and filters, anyone can look better than they actually do, and people have more access to images of conventionally attractive people than they used to. Life is no longer about living, it's about showing it off on social media. EVERYTHING is a trophy to be compared with your friends' -- partner, travel, kids, house, etc. So what you get is people like Kirsten, with a checklist. Or Alyssa from a few seasons ago with her cowboy fantasy. And guys like Airris and Nate and Olajuwon -- players who think they can stop playing. Now it's swipe, swipe, swipe, until you see someone who looks like your fantasy. And if you're not theirs, you say dating doesn't work and you sign up for a show like this...except you still have your checklist and you think these "experts" whose job is to create entertaining TV will fulfill it.

It seems everyone on this show at this point is on it for the recognition -- the reality show "stardom." You watch the matchmaking and it's all about me me me me me -- they never talk about building a life, or sharing a life, or being there for someone else. It's all about "I'm ready" or "It's time" or "I want a baby." I'll bet not one of the people on this show have ever done the work to figure out why they're not meeting the kind of people they want, or whether what they want is realistic, or even exists.

When you look at the couples who ARE still together, they are there through sheer hard work, commitment and persistence. Many of them have gone through rough times together (Doug/Jamie, Jamie/Beth, Shawniece/Jephte) but have managed to make it work or keep trying. All they get today is people who check out when what they want isn't waiting for them at their matched-for-TV wedding.

Yes - all great points about life today and the unreal expectations, etc. etc. I also see that people in their 20's & 30's and almost childlike in their behavior and expectations of others to defer to their wishes.  People in earlier generations were adults with adult lives in their 20's for the most part.

[StatisticalOutlier]

3 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

My tiny, tiny two granddaughters wanted to try on my wedding dress.  They are both double 00 in size.  Neither tiny girl could button it up!

There's a guy who collects Marilyn Monroe items, including her clothes.  A section of his website is about Monroe's actual size, based on her clothes and other documentation, to refute the common belief that she was "plus sized."

https://themarilynmonroecollection.com/marilyn-monroe-true-size/

Her first modeling contract listed her dimensions as 5'6" and 120 pounds, 36-24-34, size 12.  There's a chart showing today's sizing vs. the sizing back in Monroe's day.

Even when she gained weight, it looks like she weighed about 140 pounds at her heaviest.

As for Jean Harlow, there's a site that quotes from a fan magazine:

Q. How much do you weigh, and what are your exact measurements?

A. According to the studio wardrobe department's chart, I am five feet, one and one-half inches tall and weigh one hundred and eight pounds. My other measurements are: bust, thirty-five inches; waist, twenty-three and a half inches; hips, thirty-five and a half inches. I wear size twelve dresses, size six-and-a-quarter gloves and size three-and-one-half-B shoes.

https://carole-and-co.livejournal.com/127380.html

In contrast, most of the women this season appear to have much bigger hip measurements than bust measurements, and all that meat in that area, especially when exposed by a bathing suit or encased in lycra, makes them look very non-Monroe/Mansfield/Harlow like.

[Katie111]

Anyone think maybe Aeris is not attracted to Jasmine’s teeth but he just doesn’t want to say that?  That would be a turnoff for me.  I wonder how she won so many pageants with crooked teeth.  Other than that I think she is very attractive.

 

I thought Nicole and Chris’s conversation about how they like to just watch TV on work nights was cute.  I think that’s what the majority of people do in real life. 

[Lindz]

Nic said she'd have sex on the 2nd day of the honeymoon?!?!! & Airris talked about sex to the guys & the group before the honeymoon & hasn't tried anything. 🤣🤣 How out of touch! Like. Do they realize another person is involved?!?! 

[Lindz]

Did I see a tooth missing from Kirsten's mouth or is her overbite that severe it just looks like she's missing a back tooth? 🤔🧐

[JenE4]

On 2/9/2023 at 2:47 PM, Empress1 said:

Right. “Redheads pay me!” Girl, stop.

Yeah, the whole “I specialize in gingers” and “My ginger clients aren’t offended” was really giving me similar vibes as a racist saying “I have Black friends.” You are not helping yourself here!

Their biggest problem is that they both said something insulting, but then they each doubled-down that the other was in the wrong. Clint at least recognized that they both said something insulting. But instead of apologizing for what he said and saying he was hurt by what she said—full stop. It was like, you can’t be mad at me because you said this first. Then Gina was just only you were wrong and what I said was fine because I own a salon that gingers frequent. If they can’t acknowledge the other’s perspective, then they have no chance of ever having a successful relationship with anyone.

ETA: Also, is it just me or do Clint and Gina practically have the exact same hair color??

Edited February 12, 2023 by JenE4

[Alexander Pope]

52 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

Yeah, the whole “I specialize in gingers” and “My ginger clients aren’t offended” was really giving me similar vibes as a racist saying “I have Black friends.” You are not helping yourself here!

Their biggest problem is that they both said something insulting, but then they each doubled-down that the other was in the wrong. Clint at least recognized that they both said something insulting. But instead of apologizing for what he said and saying he was hurt by what she said—full stop. It was like, you can’t be mad at me because you said this first. Then Gina was just only you were wrong and what I said was fine because I own a salon that gingers frequent. If they can’t acknowledge the other’s perspective, then they have no chance of ever having a successful relationship with anyone.

ETA: Also, is it just me or do Clint and Gina practically have the exact same hair color??

Thank you!! Ginger Pot meet Ginger Kettle!!

[Boo Boo]

I don't like Clint, but if she's perfectly comfortable criticizing him for being a ginger, then basically fuck her.

Saying you don't think gingers are attractive is not the same as not liking blondes.  It's the whole package b/c you're talking about someone's coloring too.  

And great she owns a salon.  But if that's all she can talk about that would get old really quick.  Especially if its a bragfest which I suspect with Gina it is.  

 

[Kiss my mutt]

I’d love to know what the name of her salon is so I can check the Yelp reviews. 

[Elizzikra]

4 hours ago, JenE4 said:e.

ETA: Also, is it just me or do Clint and Gina practically have the exact same hair color??

Not on my screen. To my eyes, Clint is definitely a redhead, although it’s more a darker auburn than a firecracker red. Gina’s hair is dark brown and she may have some reddish highlights in there.

[Kimboweena]

3 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

I’d love to know what the name of her salon is so I can check the Yelp reviews. 

Her salon is called Slay Bae. Found a Facebook and Instagram page.  Can't find any reviews on Yelp. Just one review on the FB page, of course, it's positive.

[JenE4]

18 minutes ago, Kimboweena said:

Her salon is called Slay Bae. Found a Facebook and Instagram page.  Can't find any reviews on Yelp. Just one review on the FB page, of course, it's positive.

This name is going age fast. It’s as if someone named a frozen yogurt place Yolo FroYo. Or, a realistic example, Moe’s Southwest Grill, which was no doubt founded in the 90s, having dishes called The Monica Lewinsky and The Close Talker.

Edited February 12, 2023 by JenE4

[Chatty Cake]

I don’t really care for Clint or Gina but she did get the ball rolling by announcing to him that she’s not into gingers. Yes it was offensive especially since he was offended.  His comment the following day was equally rude and in front of everyone. I can see why the ladies were pissed at his comment.
The other thing that hasn’t dawned on them is that when they signed up for the show, their so called type went out the window since they allowed someone else to choose a spouse for them. They need to keep it short and sweet when discussing past types. 
I have a feeling the newlyweds have shifted from wanting to be married to wanting to be on tv. When I first started watching, I did get the feeling they wanted a partner. 
Why is Airris on?  He doesn’t seem into the marriage at all. The guy that said he rode horses but never did? What was that? Poor Shaq. The person he ended up with doesn’t seem into him at all. 

[seacliffsal]

Gina was certainly leading the 'Clint is horrible' brigade and I think that she thinks very highly of herself.  When speaking about her outrage at Clint she stated that her career is empowering women.  Making them beautiful so that they feel empowered.  Hopefully her clients feel empowered whether or not they have recently had their hair done.  Her statement reflects a viewpoint that beauty = empowerment, which, no.  I like getting my hair done, etc., but it certainly isn't what makes me a highly qualified and intelligent professional.  But, it tracks with her ability to be critical/mean to her new spouse and feel justified while doing so but when he makes a critical/mean comment to her it means that he is the devil.

[suzeecat]

I don't think the term "Ginger" has been considered derogatory in the US, but I'm from the "Gilligan's Island" age . . .

Ginger:

 

[Crashcourse]

I think "Ginger" back then was just a cute name that had nothing to do with hair color, like Ginger Rogers, who was blonde.  

[Nancybeth]

I've been thinking a lot about the "gingery" comment and I think Clint's issue is that gingery maybe implies more than having red hair. It can also describe someone also has pale skin and maybe even freckles -- features that can be "cute" on girls but may not be considered handsome or manly on men. 

[KateHearts]

6 minutes ago, Nancybeth said:

I've been thinking a lot about the "gingery" comment and I think Clint's issue is that gingery maybe implies more than having red hair. It can also describe someone also has pale skin and maybe even freckles -- features that can be "cute" on girls but may not be considered handsome or manly on men. 

I agree and posted similarly above. When my kids (all in their 30s) were growing up, redheads were often the picked-on kids in school.  Somewhere along the line redheads became associated with pale skin, freckles, and negative personality traits. Which is too bad; redheads are fairly rare and can be just as beautiful (or not!) as people with brown or blonde hair!

[StatisticalOutlier]

28 minutes ago, Nancybeth said:

I've been thinking a lot about the "gingery" comment and I think Clint's issue is that gingery maybe implies more than having red hair. It can also describe someone also has pale skin and maybe even freckles

He actually said that--red hair, pale skin, and freckles.

[Jeanne222]

Sometimes it's how you say something as much as what you say.

Gina seemed to be talking down to Clint.  Making him feel less than!

[DrewPaul2010]

On 2/12/2023 at 2:00 PM, Chatty Cake said:

The other thing that hasn’t dawned on them is that when they signed up for the show, their so called type went out the window since they allowed someone else to choose a spouse for them. They need to keep it short and sweet when discussing past types. 
 

You would think that! Many of the participants seem to feel the 'experts' have to find the perfect mate of their dreams. Anything less than that is a let down. I don't understand why some folks come on the show, agree to get married and don't give it any chance to succeed.

Chris and Nicole seem for real. But that can change.

Mack and Dom ~ Nothing to negative but not much positive.

Shaquille - Unlike Clint he didn't lose his confidence because she threw some shade about him being bald. She comes off as if she is the word from on high about how he should be and how he should be and how the marriage should be. I hope he stands his grounds. He's a cool guy.

[starlightlost]

On 2/9/2023 at 5:45 PM, brilliantbreakfast said:

At this point, I can only think these matches are being done SPECIFICALLY for conflict...and that's just cruel.

BINGO 

[starlightlost]

On 2/12/2023 at 11:35 AM, Kiss my mutt said:

I’d love to know what the name of her salon is so I can check the Yelp reviews. 

Check out Slay Bae Beauty Co. reviews on Google. 4.7 however, most of them were from the last 3 days...🤔

[seacliffsal]

Is there a meaning to Slay Bae that I'm not seeing?  Otherwise I just don't get the name.  

[LennieBriscoe]

I think it's "Kill it, Baby"--- like, "That look is killer!"

[starlightlost]

2 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

Is there a meaning to Slay Bae that I'm not seeing?  Otherwise I just don't get the name.  

What LennieBriscoe said. I must add though that this name is awful for the simple fact that these are currently trendy words. In 5 years none of the kids on TikTok will be saying them anymore lol

[seacliffsal]

3 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

3 hours ago, starlightlost said:

What LennieBriscoe said. I must add though that this name is awful for the simple fact that these are currently trendy words. In 5 years none of the kids on TikTok will be saying them anymore lol

I think it's "Kill it, Baby"--- like, "That look is killer!"

Somehow I messed up the quotes, but thank you so much for explaining this to me.  Now that I'm retired from teaching I am no longer up on current slang, etc.

Although trend words change, I think it's also not a great name because some people (like me...) won't know what it means.  I guess she is going after a specific market/clientele.  

[Elizzikra]

5 hours ago, starlightlost said:

What LennieBriscoe said. I must add though that this name is awful for the simple fact that these are currently trendy words. In 5 years none of the kids on TikTok will be saying them anymore lol

In five minutes, even…

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 2/13/2023 at 10:22 PM, DrewPaul2010 said:

Shaquille - Unlike Clint he didn't lose his confidence because she threw some shade about him being bald.

I think I detected some hair, making me think he's lost a lot of hair and just shaves the rest.  That means he's doubly bald.  He's bald because he has no hair in certain areas, and he chooses to be bald by shaving his whole head.  So is she criticizing his genes or his style choices?  Dude can't win on that one.

[Maximadc]

On 2/8/2023 at 9:32 PM, kikicat said:

I wasn't paying attention during the horse ride. Did Mack say something about a horse pooping out of its vagina??? I'm really hoping I misheard that. (I MISHEARD, THANK HEAVEN!) Will have to watch the repeat because I missed a lot in the first hour.

Is ginger an offensive term? I've never thought so. But then I like gingers. Except Clint.

OK, this time I'm wishing we had a two-hour episode. 

If any individual singles out any one group of people based on their nationality, gender, religion, color of their skin etc and then said ‘I don’t like them’, yes, it becomes offensive 

[qtpye]

On 2/13/2023 at 12:38 PM, suzeecat said:

I don't think the term "Ginger" has been considered derogatory in the US, but I'm from the "Gilligan's Island" age . . .

Ginger:

 

 

On 2/12/2023 at 5:00 PM, Chatty Cake said:

I don’t really care for Clint or Gina but she did get the ball rolling by announcing to him that she’s not into gingers. Yes it was offensive especially since he was offended.  His comment the following day was equally rude and in front of everyone. I can see why the ladies were pissed at his comment.
The other thing that hasn’t dawned on them is that when they signed up for the show, their so called type went out the window since they allowed someone else to choose a spouse for them. They need to keep it short and sweet when discussing past types. 
I have a feeling the newlyweds have shifted from wanting to be married to wanting to be on tv. When I first started watching, I did get the feeling they wanted a partner. 
Why is Airris on?  He doesn’t seem into the marriage at all. The guy that said he rode horses but never did? What was that? Poor Shaq. The person he ended up with doesn’t seem into him at all. 

Does anyone think that Gina would not have any problems with Gingers if Clint looked like Prince Harry?

[LennieBriscoe]

2 hours ago, qtpye said:

 

Does anyone think that Gina would not have any problems with Gingers if Clint looked like Prince Harry?

Perhaps if he were Prince Harry! 😉👑

[Retired at last]

I think that many of these people did want to get married, but only if "the experts" matched them with their Santa wish list. When confronted by someone less than dictated, they weren't buying it.

[qtpye]

2 minutes ago, Retired at last said:

I think that many of these people did want to get married, but only if "the experts" matched them with their Santa wish list. When confronted by someone less than dictated, they weren't buying it.

Absolutely.

I think after the excitement of the wedding wore off, Gina saw Clint sitting on her bed bare-chested in all his glory and said "Hell, No!!!".

I think she is using her dislike of red hair (which I find beautiful) as an excuse. 

She just does not like Clint and will never give him a fair chance.

Airiss looked at the show as a good way to get some extra cash, social media exposure, and maybe some sex.

He knows that Jaz is not that girl and he has gone back into his F-boy mindset.

I don't think he is attracted to her but it is a very typical F-boy play to "pretend" you do not want a woman as a way to manipulate her.

[lh25]

7 hours ago, Retired at last said:

I think that many of these people did want to get married, but only if "the experts" matched them with their Santa wish list. When confronted by someone less than dictated, they weren't buying it.

Good way to put it!  It drives me crazy when they say things like "they aren't my usual type".  They are on a show to find a mate.  Because presumably they haven't had any luck.  With that "usual type"

[Doublemint]

On 2/13/2023 at 3:19 PM, Crashcourse said:

I think "Ginger" back then was just a cute name that had nothing to do with hair color, like Ginger Rogers, who was blonde.  

I knew a "Ginger" who's real name was Virginia.  I think this is one of the knicknames for Virginia - Ginny, Virgie & Ginger.

[FSC2930]

Anyone unfamiliar with the joking that usually accompanies the term “ginger” should watch the ginger episode on South Park.

[Crashcourse]

14 hours ago, Doublemint said:

I knew a "Ginger" who's real name was Virginia.  I think this is one of the knicknames for Virginia - Ginny, Virgie & Ginger.

You're right.  I just looked up Ginger Rogers and her real name was Virginia.

[LennieBriscoe]

On 2/17/2023 at 10:56 AM, Retired at last said:

I think that many of these people did want to get married, but only if "the experts" matched them with their Santa wish list. When confronted by someone less than dictated, they weren't buying it.

In the voice of Kenan Thompson as host of SNL "Celebrity Jeopardy":Yes! Yes!

Like the show should be them, but successful! 

[Elizzikra]

Quote

I think that many of these people did want to get married, but only if "the experts" matched them with their Santa wish list. 

Like the show is a personal shopper but for a spouse...