S05.E03: Mou Mou

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

In 1946, an Egyptian street vendor finds inspiration in the abdicated King Edward. Years later, he eagerly tries to integrate into British High Society.

Dropping on Wednesday, November 9, 2022.

[Roseanna]

Well, that was something new and freshing: not only a good background story to Dodi but more: the decline of the Britain is showed by Dodi's dad buying Ritz and Harrod's but however hard he tries to be like an upper class British, he is eternally seen as an outsider because of his Egyptian origin and Muslim faith.

[estellasmum]

ALEX JENNINGS IS BACK!!!!!! As much as I think the Duke of Windsor was a reprehensible person IRL, I absolutely adore Alex Jennings in this role, and it was an utter shock and delight to see him. IDK how other people will like it, but I really enjoyed this episode.

Edited November 9, 2022 by estellasmum
complete sentences are important

[Helena Dax]

Uncle Nazi played by Alex Jennings is always an utter delight, although he wasn't his usual bitchy in this episode.

Mou Mou was an interesting character. I think that his eagerness to impress the Queen played against him. I'm not British nor upper class, but I have the feeling that indifference works better in these situations. 

[Roseanna]

56 minutes ago, Helena Dax said:

Mou Mou was an interesting character. I think that his eagerness to impress the Queen played against him. I'm not British nor upper class, but I have the feeling that indifference works better in these situations. 

Only upper class can to pretend indifference. 

It was interesting to lean that they financed Chariots of fire. It tells about British runners in the Olympics in 1920. One of them was a  Jew, an outsider.

[Conotocarious]

I thought this was going to be a boring episode but I loved it. Elizabeth Debickie is SO FREAKIN’ good as Princess Diana. They actually have her hair right in this one. My god do the actors do an amazing job.

[Zaffy]

I just finished episode 5, and so far Mou Mou has been  the only remotely interesting episode this season. 
 

[txhorns79]

3 hours ago, Conotocarious said:

Elizabeth Debickie is SO FREAKIN’ good as Princess Diana.

She is utterly charming as Diana.  Momo got a big upgrade by getting to sit with her, rather than the Queen. 

[dubbel zout]

5 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

Uncle Nazi played by Alex Jennings is always an utter delight, although he wasn't his usual bitchy in this episode.

I know! He's always so completely deluded about what the Abdication meant for him afterward.

If anyone is interested in reading more about the Duchess of Windsor's final years, Caroline Blackwood's The Last of the Duchess is great. Macabre, hilarious, and very weird.

[peridot]

When the Al Fayids were trying to finance the Ritz, I wasn't sure if the hotelier's point was valid or not.  Were they just basically running on credit, or were the hotelier's being racist?

I just felt sorry for Sydney the entire episode.  It was bad enough that the Duke was talking about him like he couldn't hear, but he was dismissed from the party because he was black.  He then only had value to Al Fayid because he was the Duke's valet.  I wasn't sure what to feel about the fact that Al Fayid treated him as a friend and then cried over his deathbed.  I hated that Sydney was wistful about the Duke and then was ok with being the valet to a wannabe Duke. 

I'm surprised that it took the Royal family so long to recover the items and documents from the Duke's old house.

It was awful that the Queen went out of her way to avoid meeting Al Fayid.  If it's standard to sit beside the race sponsor, then she should have sat beside him at least once.  The meeting between Diana and Al Fayid was pretty good, they had a good rapport.

[Sailorgirl26]

I don't care how remotely close to factual this episode was or not, I loved it. 

So far, I'm enjoying this season more than I thought I would based on the tepid reviews. 

I will say its a good thing Dominic West has the voice down, because otherwise, I wouldn't be buying him as Charles in the least. And the Queen Mum was not taller than the Queen, nor thin. Those are the only two really taking me out of it. 

[secnarf]

I was a bit bored by this episode. I think I didn't immediately cotton on to the significance of the opening scene, and it went on too long before Dodi was born and I just stopped caring. And I was confused about the scene with Mohamed putting a pill in Sydney's mouth right before his death - if this were not a historical drama based on real people, I would have thought that Mohamed killed Sydney. What was that supposed to be about?

[formerlyfreedom]

Not knowing how much of this is accurate to history, but Mohamed’s devotion to Sidney while he was dying was beautiful to watch. The actor playing Mohamed is a dead ringer for the real one.

[andromeda331]

I really don't know much about Dodi's family so it was interesting to see that. I like @Roseanna's comment about how it showed the decline of Britain which it really did with Fayid buying the Ritz and Harrods. It was really crappy of the Queen to not sit with Fayid but did like Diana and him getting along.  I liked him taking care of Sydney at the end. That was really nice.

The Queen Mother kept mentioning what things of Edward's should go where. Well, then you go. I get why Elizabeth didn't want to go given how crappy her uncle was. But I'm surprised no one thought until then thought about getting a hold of his papers. You'd think someone from the Crown would have been over there going through all that stuff for that reason. 

I didn't know they provided the money to produce Chariots of Fire. That's such a really good movie. 

[Ellaria]

I was surprised to see that a full episode was devoted to Mohamed Al-Fayed. It was an excellent episode and highlighted all that has been written about his desire to be recognized as part of British high society.

Great to see Alex Jennings again. He really is brilliant as the Duke of Windsor.

I enjoyed the break from the Charles/Diana drama. 

[dubbel zout]

4 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

But I'm surprised no one thought until then thought about getting a hold of his papers. You'd think someone from the Crown would have been over there going through all that stuff for that reason. 

Because the Duchess of Windsor's French lawyer had an iron grip on everything. The return of objects is something that should have been hammered out after Edward abdicated. Maybe it was and everyone ignored it? Who knows. 

[Brn2bwild]

12 hours ago, secnarf said:

I was a bit bored by this episode. I think I didn't immediately cotton on to the significance of the opening scene, and it went on too long before Dodi was born and I just stopped caring. And I was confused about the scene with Mohamed putting a pill in Sydney's mouth right before his death - if this were not a historical drama based on real people, I would have thought that Mohamed killed Sydney. What was that supposed to be about?

I was bored as well.  I'm not interested in Dodi Fayed or his family.  I might have liked the episode better if it had aired later in the season, but right now, we barely know this version of Queen Elizabeth II, Charles, and Diana.  Let us get to know them first before giving us an episode from the perspective of someone outside of the family.  

Edited November 10, 2022 by Brn2bwild

[PRgal]

One thing I never realized was that Dodi had an American accent.  I suppose he got it from schools he attended?  Or watching TV/movies?  

[SoTheresThat]

On 11/9/2022 at 9:27 PM, secnarf said:

I was a bit bored by this episode. I think I didn't immediately cotton on to the significance of the opening scene, and it went on too long before Dodi was born and I just stopped caring. And I was confused about the scene with Mohamed putting a pill in Sydney's mouth right before his death - if this were not a historical drama based on real people, I would have thought that Mohamed killed Sydney. What was that supposed to be about?

The camera panned past a bottle of morphine tablets right before.  He was giving Sydney a pain pill. 

It was very touching how Mou Mou cared for Sydney at the end.  It choked me up a little bit.

Loved this episode!

Edited November 11, 2022 by SoTheresThat

[Lady Whistleup]

That was a very slow-paced, leisurely episode. Not sure I liked it, but I did enjoy seeing Alex Jennings again, and also the bond between Sydney and Mou Mou was nice.

I also liked the scene between Mohamed and Diana. It captured something people always said about Diana -- whatever her private demons, she was always able to disarm strangers with her charm and charisma almost immediately.

[BloomsburyRez]

48 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I also liked the scene between Mohamed and Diana. It captured something people always said about Diana -- whatever her private demons, she was always able to disarm strangers with her charm and charisma almost immediately.

Yes, besides a few scenes of much younger carefree Diana last season it’s the first that showed that she did have this natural ability with people, a change from the doe eyes and heavy drama (which there was but she was popular for a reason). 
 

Three episodes in and the Queen is a background bit player in these past two. When she is shown she does not resemble either public knowledge of the Queen, or the character that’s been established over the past four seasons. We are supposed to believe that a woman who has spent decades traveling to places she probably wouldn’t have chosen and talking to thousands of people because it’s her job suddenly decides to flake out at an event showcasing something she really really loves to hang with her sister and BFF, knowing that a giant part of what makes horse events happen are donors with deep pockets. The woman was a literal workhorse herself! Another giant eye roll of her not knowing/caring about possessions at the mansion until he mentioned grandma’s pearls.

The secretary who she sent to fetch the items and find someone to entertain al Fayad was actually Diana’s brother-in-law.

[Cheezwiz]

This was an interesting little side-journey. I was expecting it to be dull, but it kept me engaged.

It was a treat to see Alex Jennings again in flashbacks, and the actors playing Mohammad Al Fayed and Sydney Johnson were fantastic. It sounds like it was probably fictionalized, but the role reversal at the end with Fayed nursing Sydney was touching.

Elizabeth Debicki was also great in her scene with Fayed at the races - she totally nailed Diana's mannerisms and easy charm.

[Roseanna]

3 hours ago, BloomsburyRez said:

We are supposed to believe that a woman who has spent decades traveling to places she probably wouldn’t have chosen and talking to thousands of people because it’s her job suddenly decides to flake out at an event showcasing something she really really loves to hang with her sister and BFF, knowing that a giant part of what makes horse events happen are donors with deep pockets. The woman was a literal workhorse herself!

I don't know if the incident happend irl or not, but it showed as a means of drama showed that how rich Mou Mou became and how much he tried, he couldn't be accepted by the British aristoctracy - not only because of his race, but because he was a merchant. Sydney should have said him that - as well as expensive gifts to the Queen weren't a good idea.  

[BloomsburyRez]

5 hours ago, Roseanna said:

don't know if the incident happend irl or not, but it showed as a means of drama showed that how rich Mou Mou became and how much he tried, he couldn't be accepted by the British aristoctracy - not only because of his race, but because he was a merchant. Sydney should have said him that - as well as expensive gifts to the Queen weren't a good idea.  

I understand, you could feel a level of second hand embarrassment for his trying so hard. My main quibble is that yes this is historical fiction but the Queen that they are presenting now bares little resemblance to the previous two Queens. If Claire Foy’s Queen tried to duck out of sitting with him someone older would have lectured her. Olivia Coleman’s Queen would have steeled herself to spend some time then probably said a few lines later to Phillip about how overbearing this guy was.  
 

If they are trying “the Queen is racist” narrative that also conflicts with what has been shown in the past four seasons especially remarks made to Phillip or Thatcher when they made racist comments. 

[Snazzy Daisy]

Among the first five, this is the most fascinating episode for me.

So, basically Mou Mou is a clout chaser! 😆

Seeing how the friendship between Mou Mou and Sydney unfolded, it’s interesting and also heartwarming.

I love the Ali Ali and Dodi Dodi scene at the end. Diana and Mou Mou really get along so well. She’s a better (and more fun) companion than QE2.

From an earlier scene - Wallis is so relevant that they don’t even bother to translate that word… 😆

[tennisgurl]

The Duke of Windsor was a lousy person, both in the show and in real life, but I love Alex Jennings's portrayal of him so that was a delightful surprise. Really interesting episode, I certainly did not expect a whole episode about Mohamed Al-Fayed. I am not sure how much was real and how much was dramatized, but I thought it was a really interesting look at race, class, and society. 

I thought it felt off that the Queen wouldn't sit with Mou Mou even for that one race, she's supposed to be all about following the rules and keeping her feelings on the inside, even if she thought he was a thirsty social climber I would think she could at least be polite for an afternoon. But that did lead to Mou Mou and Diana hitting it off, and that was really nice to see. We see a lot of Diana's personal struggles in this show so its good to be reminded of how charming she was in her public life and why she was so massively popular and has become this pop culture icon. 

You would think that the Windsors would want to get those letters and diaries back as soon as possible, the last thing they need in the middle of a bunch of scandals about their personal lives is a bunch letters getting published which detail Uncle Nazi's flirting with fascists. 

[Spartan Girl]

Well, I wasn’t expecting an episode about Dodi and his family, but it was interesting to see the British monarchy from a different viewpoint. It’s tragically ironic how much young Mohammed revered the royals despite his father’s stance about the colonizers.

Hi, Uncle Nazi and Wallis. You’re still the worst.

[Straycat80]

All I knew about Mohamed Al Fayed was that he owned Harrods and was father to Dodi, so this was interesting and I liked the story about him and Sydney.  

[greekmom]

Interesting back story on the Al fayed family. Poor Al fayed SR trying to get in good with the royal family only to be spurned.

I did like the whole royal valet storyline.

Also the relationship in the end with Al fayed sr and Diana.

The Queen can be dense at times.

[PeterPirate]

Here is another article about Sydney Johnson that includes several photos of him.

Elizabeth Debicki killed it as Diana.  And Mohammed Al Fayed was portrayed magnificently.  On the other hand Dodi Al Fayed came across somewhat unfavorably.  I suppose they have their reasons for that.  

David Windsor came across pretty well in this episode.  Fortunately I re-watched Vergangenheit last week so I was inoculated against having any positive feelings for the old reprobate.  

The show is playing loose with the timeline again.  Diana met the Al Fayeds at a polo tournament in 1986.  Villa Windsor opened in December 1989, and Sydney Johnson died the following month.  Also, Chariots of Fire came out in 1991, well before the purchase of Harrods.  They did weave the various elements together into a nice, rather complicated narrative.  But in the end the portrayal of Elizabeth snubbing Al Fayed was off-putting for me.  (I am assuming that was another fictionalization by the show.  Pics or it didn't happen, I say.)

[Spartan Girl]

Also want to add that the guy playing Dodi is kind of cute. Just sayin’….

Edited November 13, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[Lady Whistleup]

11 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

The show is playing loose with the timeline again.  Diana met the Al Fayeds at a polo tournament in 1986.  Villa Windsor opened in December 1989, and Sydney Johnson died the following month.  Also, Chariots of Fire came out in 1991, well before the purchase of Harrods.  They did weave the various elements together into a nice, rather complicated narrative.  But in the end the portrayal of Elizabeth snubbing Al Fayed was off-putting for me.  (I am assuming that was another fictionalization by the show.  Pics or it didn't happen, I say.)

It appears the Queen and Mohamed did meet. I don;t know how warm the interaction was but I doubt it was as chilly as the Crown depicted.

I sometimes think Peter Morgan simply never liked QE2 or was inspired by her character, because he often writes these little moments of shittiness from her .

[Straycat80]

48 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Also want to add that the guy playing Dodd is kind of cute. Just sayin’….

I was wishing he would stop slouching, he looked a little hunchbacked. 

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, PeterPirate said:

Here is another article about Sydney Johnson that includes several photos of him.

Elizabeth Debicki killed it as Diana.  And Mohammed Al Fayed was portrayed magnificently.  On the other hand Dodi Al Fayed came across somewhat unfavorably.  I suppose they have their reasons for that.  

David Windsor came across pretty well in this episode.  Fortunately I re-watched Vergangenheit last week so I was inoculated against having any positive feelings for the old reprobate.  

The show is playing loose with the timeline again.  Diana met the Al Fayeds at a polo tournament in 1986.  Villa Windsor opened in December 1989, and Sydney Johnson died the following month.  Also, Chariots of Fire came out in 1991, well before the purchase of Harrods.  They did weave the various elements together into a nice, rather complicated narrative.  But in the end the portrayal of Elizabeth snubbing Al Fayed was off-putting for me.  (I am assuming that was another fictionalization by the show.  Pics or it didn't happen, I say.)

Actually, 1981

[Athena5217]

4 minutes ago, Straycat80 said:

I was wishing he would stop slouching, he looked a little hunchbacked. 

I took it as, “my father is driving me crazy because he wants me to fire the Black guy and he is obsessed with   British royalty” slouching.

Doesn’t matter who you are or how much money you have —parents can still drive you crazy.

[jeansheridan]

2 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

Also, Chariots of Fire came out in 1991, well before the purchase of Harrods.  Th

2 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

Also, Chariots of Fire came out in 1991, well

It came out in 1981. 

2 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

Here is another article about Sydney Johnson that includes several photos of him.

Thanks for the link! Wow the actor was a good match. Plus...pugs!

[Peace 47]

My favorite portion of the episode was the montage showing the Duke of Windsor tutoring Sydney on English culture contrasted with older Sydney doing the same for Mohamed Al-Fayad.  It was really well-edited, directed and acted.  It was this montage where the episode really took off for me.  The actor who played older Mohamed Al-Fayed was really compelling.

The characterization of QEII continues to be brutal (which I’ve felt was the case since S3, although it’s on another level this season).  Barely featured, and when she is, portrayed as out of touch, disinterested in her job and racist(?).  Oof.  The Queen had her many flaws, but this show seems to be making up new ones for her.

[BloomsburyRez]

3 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

On the other hand Dodi Al Fayed came across somewhat unfavorably.  I suppose they have their reasons for that. 

Actually I had only ever read him described as a spoiled playboy, I had no idea he was a producer on Chariots of Fire. He was also portrayed as having a conscience and wanting to establish himself. I actually viewed him more favorably. The way his father was portrayed however now makes the true love narrative he continues to push make a lot more sense. 

[Roseanna]

20 hours ago, BloomsburyRez said:

I understand, you could feel a level of second hand embarrassment for his trying so hard.

That was the interpretation of the British aristocracy, but one can question their smug sureness that they were entitled simply because of birth.

[PeterPirate]

6 hours ago, BloomsburyRez said:

Actually I had only ever read him described as a spoiled playboy, I had no idea he was a producer on Chariots of Fire. He was also portrayed as having a conscience and wanting to establish himself. I actually viewed him more favorably. The way his father was portrayed however now makes the true love narrative he continues to push make a lot more sense. 

The part that struck me was Dodi's lack of, say, gallantry when he met Diana, and his choice not to sit with the princess when given the chance.  They painted him as a mixed bag, maybe that was for the sake of drama.  

[Roseanna]

7 hours ago, Peace 47 said:

My favorite portion of the episode was the montage showing the Duke of Windsor tutoring Sydney on English culture contrasted with older Sydney doing the same for Mohamed Al-Fayad. 

The funniest part for me was that irl the duke of Windsor was no expert even in the aristocratic clothing code. Frances Donaldon tells in his biography that because he was educated in the Royal Navy, he made those little mistakes which even the smallest schoolboys in Eton knew were "non-U". He would have labelled as a "cad", had he not been the Prince of Wales.

[PeterPirate]

10 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

It appears the Queen and Mohamed did meet. I don;t know how warm the interaction was but I doubt it was as chilly as the Crown depicted.

I sometimes think Peter Morgan simply never liked QE2 or was inspired by her character, because he often writes these little moments of shittiness from her .

Gaah.  Now I'm ticked off.  Not only are these photos from two different meetings between the two, but they are walking together in the first photo.  

[Lady Whistleup]

1 hour ago, PeterPirate said:

Gaah.  Now I'm ticked off.  Not only are these photos from two different meetings between the two, but they are walking together in the first photo.  

There are more photos from different occasions. Again, I don't think these two were friends in any sense of the word, but it does seem like they had a cordial enough relationship. 

[PeterPirate]

37 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

There are more photos from different occasions. Again, I don't think these two were friends in any sense of the word, but it does seem like they had a cordial enough relationship. 

The truly ironic thing here is that none of these photos show Elizabeth sitting with Fayed in that exalted box.  Morgan could have had them meet on the turf before the event, with Diana performing the official duty.  Same basic message while retaining historical accuracy. 

[Spartan Girl]

Well, regardless of the historical inaccuracy regarding the queen, I did like how Diana instantly hit it off with “Mou Mou” and teased him about the Harrod’s gift bag. She wasn't called the People’s Princess for nothing.

[Blakeston]

Diana will complain to anyone who will listen about the royals, won't she?

I couldn't tell if race had anything to do with the Queen's snubbing of Mou-Mou. Far and away the most racist thing we saw was Mou-Mou firing a waiter for the crime of being Black. (And he did this after whining about discrimination when he put in his bid for the Ritz, when it sounded like the concerns about him were pretty valid.)

I'm glad that he came around and developed a close bond with Sydney, but a Black person shouldn't need to be extraordinary to be valued as a human being.

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, Blakeston said:

Diana will complain to anyone who will listen about the royals, won't she?

I couldn't tell if race had anything to do with the Queen's snubbing of Mou-Mou. Far and away the most racist thing we saw was Mou-Mou firing a waiter for the crime of being Black. (And he did this after whining about discrimination when he put in his bid for the Ritz, when it sounded like the concerns about him were pretty valid.)

I'm glad that he came around and developed a close bond with Sydney, but a Black person shouldn't need to be extraordinary to be valued as a human being.

I actually found Mou Mou's attitude towards Black people pretty realistic for his generation.  And I think it would be for some in Dodi's as well.  There are plenty of groups who face discrimination from the "mainstream," yet are racist towards other groups different from themselves.  Especially if there are social class differences.  Mou Mou would less likely (unlikely? Won't?) have that kind of attitude towards, say, a Black lawyer.  

[chocolatine]

I don't know if that was the show's intention, but I thought Dodi came across as a wet dishrag, especially in contrast to Mohammed.

I have heard the story many times before of Mohammed being spurned by the BRF, so the theme of the episode rang true for me even if specific events didn't.

[Domenicholas]

I found out something interesting about the Al Fayad family after this episode. Dodi's mother was Samira Khashoggi. Now I don't want into trouble for posting about politics, but google the last name if you want to find out about a really interesting family connection.

[Lady Whistleup]

This is a good fact check of the episode:

https://time.com/6226938/the-crown-mohamed-al-fayed-dodi/