S05.E10: Decommissioned

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

After heightened public scrutiny, Charles forges a new alliance in Hong Kong. Mohamed Al-Fayed offers his support to a newly-divorced Diana.

Dropping on Wednesday, November 9, 2022.

[Roseanna]

It was a good idea to show other couples that wanted divorce. Also they had different expectations and blamed the othet party.

Diana and Charles' discussion was well written. Both wanted to start anew, but then fell to their old habits.. Charles' faults are obvious, but Diana seems never to grow up. She "loved" Charles - but did she fell for the man or for the Prince of Wales?   

I guess Charles' actions against the Queen is invented for dramatic purpose, now when the battle between him and Diana is almost ended. But it makes Charles look not only illoyal but stupid as it's clear that at least *after* the divorce his best protection was his old-fashioned Mummy, the only constant in the changing world.  

[Suzn]

I find it confusing trying to pick out the fiction from fact.  Obviously unrecorded  conversations are fictionalized, but I don't know the details of the royal family's lives and I'm just left with questions.  For example. was Queen Elizabeth really so deeply attached to her yacht, the Britannia?  It seemed kind of ridiculous to me.  Also, did Charles really pressure her to abdicate in his favor?

This applies to all episodes - I thought Elizabeth Debicki was just awful as Diana.  She mimicked mannerisms which is not the same as being the character.  I was so sick of that lowered chin and looking up through her lashes.

[BloomsburyRez]

19 minutes ago, Suzn said:

For example. was Queen Elizabeth really so deeply attached to her yacht, the Britannia?  It seemed kind of ridiculous to me.  Also, did Charles really pressure her to abdicate in his favor?

There are photos/video of both the Queen and Anne openly crying at the decommissioning ceremony. Apparently she did view it as the most private escape that she had, it was also a home base during long tours. 
 

While it’s possible at points Charles did hope his mother would abdicate spending 70+ years as PoW was what allowed him to continue with Camilla. If he’d become King while married or immediately after the divorce both Charles and Diana would have had a very different life. It was controversial enough for a PoW to divorce I doubt a King could have done it. 

[Dejana]

49 minutes ago, Suzn said:

I find it confusing trying to pick out the fiction from fact.  Obviously unrecorded  conversations are fictionalized, but I don't know the details of the royal family's lives and I'm just left with questions.  For example. was Queen Elizabeth really so deeply attached to her yacht, the Britannia?  It seemed kind of ridiculous to me.  

25 minutes ago, BloomsburyRez said:

There are photos/video of both the Queen and Anne openly crying at the decommissioning ceremony. Apparently she did view it as the most private escape that she had, it was also a home base during long tours. 

In real life, the decommissioning ceremony happened in December 1997. At the time, I remember people saying it proved how out of touch the Queen was, that she could so openly weep about a thing (her yacht) but not a person. Which isn't totally fair, because the Britannia held decades of happy family memories for her as well. 

[Spartan Girl]

On 11/10/2022 at 4:32 AM, Roseanna said:

Diana and Charles' discussion was well written. Both wanted to start anew, but then fell to their old habits.. Charles' faults are obvious, but Diana seems never to grow up. She "loved" Charles - but did she fell for the man or for the Prince of Wales?   

You could say the same thing about Charles. Did he ever really love Diana, or was he just infatuated for the Manic Pixie Dream Girl and think he could fix her to his liking?

[Conotocarious]

2 hours ago, Suzn said:

I find it confusing trying to pick out the fiction from fact.  Obviously unrecorded  conversations are fictionalized, but I don't know the details of the royal family's lives and I'm just left with questions.  For example. was Queen Elizabeth really so deeply attached to her yacht, the Britannia?  It seemed kind of ridiculous to me.  Also, did Charles really pressure her to abdicate in his favor?

This applies to all episodes - I thought Elizabeth Debicki was just awful as Diana.  She mimicked mannerisms which is not the same as being the character.  I was so sick of that lowered chin and looking up through her lashes.

I could not disagree more.

That is how Diana acted. It was what she was known for. Her performance is crazy good. If she didn’t do those things people would be whining about the character acted nothing like Diana. 

[Roseanna]

2 hours ago, Suzn said:

For example. was Queen Elizabeth really so deeply attached to her yacht, the Britannia?  It seemed kind of ridiculous to me. 

Some people are attached to their bike, car or sailing boat. Why not to the yacht that was like a holiday home (with servants) to her?

[Suzn]

1 hour ago, Conotocarious said:

I could not disagree more.

That is how Diana acted. It was what she was known for. Her performance is crazy good. If she didn’t do those things people would be whining about the character acted nothing like Diana. 

It doesn't look like natural movements.  As I said, she mimics and I never believe for a minute that it is spontaneous. I never see her lost in the role.  I should have expected getting called out for an unpopular opinion. 

[Conotocarious]

22 minutes ago, Suzn said:

It doesn't look like natural movements.  As I said, she mimics and I never believe for a minute that it is spontaneous. I never see her lost in the role.  I should have expected getting called out for an unpopular opinion. 

It looks natural to me. And the voice is dead on. So much so I wondered if they used excerpts from the actual Martin Bashir interview.

[Ellaria]

I loved this season. Thought it was much better than S4 which was swallowed up by the early Charles/Diana drama. These characters felt lived in; accustomed to being unhappy with their lives and weary of the limitations placed on them.

I was skeptical of the casting of Dominic West but he was brilliant in showing Charles’ discontent, hubris and self-importance. Jonny Lee Miller was terrific. He was the voice of reason to the viewers as well as the royal family.

I think that the show was fair in its presentation of Diana and her choices and how those choices affected everyone around her.

[peridot]

I laughed when they showed the montage of Diana continually pressing "no" to "Do you want a monarchy?".  It was awful, but hilarious when  Charles' brothers said that the public didn't want him to be king.  I loved his sour look when his painting gift was upstaged by the gag gift of the singing fish.

It was pretty awful that Dodi and Mohamed constantly talk in Arabic in front of others, and Mohamed's wife just says "you'll get used to it".  It's very rude, but I guess it's tolerable considering the money the Al-Fayids have.

Charles keeps on being a snake in the grass.  I'm glad this secret meeting with the PM got back to the Queen.  I loved that he was bumped to business class on the plane!

The ending was kind of abrupt, I thought there would be another episode.

[Helena Dax]

There's something's almost comical in the way Charles tries to use every opportunity to get his mother retired.

It's interesting that Dodi seems to have the same relationship with his father that Charles has with his mother. I didn't know anything about him until this season, but I can't tell I'm impressed (although Chariots of Fire is a great movie). The whole scene in the restaurant was painful to watch.

I'm surprised they put Charles in business class while the members of the government travelled in first class. It wasn't a personal trip, right? The Government wanted someone from the BRF there.

[Roseanna]

21 minutes ago, Helena Dax said:

It's interesting that Dodi seems to have the same relationship with his father that Charles has with his mother. I didn't know anything about him until this season, but I can't tell I'm impressed (although Chariots of Fire is a great movie). The whole scene in the restaurant was painful to watch.

Comparation with Dodi who is basically a playboy is favorable to Charles who has actually done something (Prince's trust, ecology). Poor Diana. 

[Roseanna]

7 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I was skeptical of the casting of Dominic West but he was brilliant in showing Charles’ discontent, hubris and self-importance. Jonny Lee Miller was terrific. He was the voice of reason to the viewers as well as the royal family.

Aren't those qualities you mention contradictory to being "the voice of reason"?

[Ellaria]

3 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Aren't those qualities you mention contradictory to being "the voice of reason"?

Please go back and re-read my post. I think that you are confusing my two statements.

[Brn2bwild]

This was probably my least favorite season, maybe edging out Season 3.  At least with Season 3, we had Diana in our future.

I tried to figure out what wasn't working for me.  One thing was definitely Charles's undeserved glow-up with Dominic West's casting.  I don't see Charles in this attractive, charismatic man.  Another thing was that while Elizabeth Debicki had Diana's look and mannerisms down pat, what was missing from her was warmth.  Emma Corrin's warmth really burst from the screen in Season 4.  You could feel that she genuinely cared.

This Diana seemed all performative, with no warmth.  She didn't seem to care about her sons; you barely saw any interaction with William and Harry (Harry who? He had maybe two nonspeaking appearances), and we know her relationship with her sons was really important to the real Diana.  Because this Diana didn't seem to truly care, I felt less invested in her than in Season 4, and I think it dragged down my enjoyment overall.  

Edited November 12, 2022 by Brn2bwild

[iMonrey]

The gimmick of showing other divorcing couples didn't really work for me but I liked the rest of the episode. I really had no idea that Martin Bashir tricked Diana into giving that interview and I had to go look it up to confirm it. I came into this season thinking there was nothing new to learn about Diana at this point because her story has already been told about a thousand times, but I was proven wrong. I learned quite a bit more about her this season.

Quote

Another thing was that while Elizabeth Debicki had Diana's look and mannerisms down pat, what was missing from her was warmth.  

I can see on the one hand why she was cast because she did have the look and the mannerisms down pat. But what I had a hard time getting past is how she towered over everyone! The woman is a giant. Diana should not be taller than Prince Phillip!

[BuckeyeLou]

16 hours ago, peridot said:

I laughed when they showed the montage of Diana continually pressing "no" to "Do you want a monarchy?".  It was awful, but hilarious when  Charles' brothers said that the public didn't want him to be king.  I loved his sour look when his painting gift was upstaged by the gag gift of the singing fish.

It was pretty awful that Dodi and Mohamed constantly talk in Arabic in front of others, and Mohamed's wife just says "you'll get used to it".  It's very rude, but I guess it's tolerable considering the money the Al-Fayids have.

Charles keeps on being a snake in the grass.  I'm glad this secret meeting with the PM got back to the Queen.  I loved that he was bumped to business class on the plane!

The ending was kind of abrupt, I thought there would be another episode.

I wondered if that scene of Diana watching the Opinion Quiz on TV & then pressing "NO" on her phone was fictionalized?  I cant imagine that Diana would be voting against her son's future

[Spartan Girl]

41 minutes ago, BuckeyeLou said:

I wondered if that scene of Diana watching the Opinion Quiz on TV & then pressing "NO" on her phone was fictionalized?  I cant imagine that Diana would be voting against her son's future

Probably was, but considering what a bang-up job the family did with raising Charles as the heir, one couldn’t blame her if she didn’t want William to be tainted in the same way. What mother wouldn’t want to protect her child from being burdened with such a responsibility?

[Snazzy Daisy]

Overall, the season finale was underwhelming.

The only best part was Diana happily spamming the telephone vote.

“You can’t be blamed for living a long life.”

I cannot imagine Charles would say this IRL. He knows his mama would never abdicate.

[QQQQ]

On 11/10/2022 at 3:32 AM, Roseanna said:

It was a good idea to show other couples that wanted divorce. 

I liked it, too. It reminded me of When Harry Met Sally.

[dubbel zout]

"New Britain" is a terrible name for a royal-adjacent yacht.

The actor playing Tony Blair didn't quite have the voice down.

[greekmom]

I feel bad that Diana lost Dr. Khan. I think that he would have made her very happy but it was an impossible union given that there were issues with religion and their different stations. Dodi was in the social standing but I think he was just a distraction and a way for her to feel safe due to his money.  Can we fault her for that? I mean Jackie O did the same.
My favourite has to be Micheal Sheen as Tony Blair. But like I said before, Johnny Lee Miller killed it as Major. Also, Elizabeth Debicki  did a fantastic job.
Charles really liked to worm his way in seeing if he can get Mummy to abdicate whenever possible.
I felt bad about those kids in Hong Kong being out in the rain.

With so many fictionalized private conversations, I would have liked to see the one with Diana confronting Camilla at the beginning at some party. Diana claimed as much in the Morton book.
 

[GHScorpiosRule]

32 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

"New Britain" is a terrible name for a royal-adjacent yacht.

The actor playing Tony Blair didn't quite have the voice down.

And my mind kept yelling “You, Sir, are No Michael Sheen!”😅

[Spartan Girl]

I did kind of like the scene with Mohammed seeing Diana in her lonely box at the ballet, and inviting her to dinner and later the yacht. Mainly because the blue dress was so pretty. But the part where the paparazzi was chasing her car sent a chill down my spine.

15 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And my mind kept yelling “You, Sir, are No Michael Sheen!”😅

Seriously. Why couldn’t they have gotten him instead? Who cares if he’s older? If HBC could play Margaret on this show, and the Queen Mum in King’s Speech, that could work too.

I had to cackle at Charles being made to sit in business class.

Final verdict on the season: not bad, but kind of uneven. There were some good episodes, like the Margaret/Peter reunion and the Russia episode. Still not feeling the new cast as a whole. Elizabeth Debicki wasn’t terrible as Diana—the hair was perfect and there were moments of her nailing her mannerisms. But the writing for her was all over the place, and it failed to recapture the warmth and spark that Emma had. It could have been so much better.

Well, in any case, I’m anxious to see how the final season will go down.

[dubbel zout]

1 minute ago, Spartan Girl said:

But the part where the paparazzi was chasing her car sent a chill down my spine.

I rolled my eyes. Same with the Guy Fawkes fireworks going off when Diana was taping her interview with Bashir. I GET IT.

Peter Morgan has never been subtle.

[monakane]

This is my least favorite season.  I hate the way they are portraying the queen like she is a wishy washy door mat.  I don't believe for 1 second that the queen was anyone's door mat.  My favorite Elizabeth is Claire Foy and Olivia Colman captures her well also.  The center of the show should be Elizabeth and she felt like a supporting player.  I also did not care about the couples in the divorce episode.  They could have used that time on other story lines.  I hope the final season is an improvement.

[swanpride]

As always I feel it is kind of odd what they put in and what they left out this season. Ie it was really odd that they did a whole episode about Phillip exploring his "roots" in Russia while not mentioning once how Germany played into all that history they were talking about, or the utterly lack of mentioning the EU. I know, this is more about the family than the politics, but considering that they do delve in politics once a while, one has to wonder why they leave out certain things. 

In addition, while I enjoyed the symbolism with the ship, considering that it was never mentioned before in any other season, it was a little bit clunky that this is now supposedly an oh so important place. (The cutting off point was also off, I was expecting them to cover the whole 1990s...but I guess they are stretching the concept out as long as possible now....still it feels as if the show was basically treating water). 

[Marley]

They did do a whole episode about Philip and his family in Germany a couple seasons ago. I think maybe it was season 2. 

[leighdear]

On 11/11/2022 at 2:51 PM, Conotocarious said:

It looks natural to me. And the voice is dead on. So much so I wondered if they used excerpts from the actual Martin Bashir interview.

According to her interview in VOGUE, she worked with a voice coach and tapes for several months. 

[jschoolgirl]

The actress who plays the Queen Mother takes me out of the scene every time.

[Brn2bwild]

3 hours ago, swanpride said:

As always I feel it is kind of odd what they put in and what they left out this season. Ie it was really odd that they did a whole episode about Phillip exploring his "roots" in Russia while not mentioning once how Germany played into all that history they were talking about, or the utterly lack of mentioning the EU. I know, this is more about the family than the politics, but considering that they do delve in politics once a while, one has to wonder why they leave out certain things. 

In addition, while I enjoyed the symbolism with the ship, considering that it was never mentioned before in any other season, it was a little bit clunky that this is now supposedly an oh so important place. (The cutting off point was also off, I was expecting them to cover the whole 1990s...but I guess they are stretching the concept out as long as possible now....still it feels as if the show was basically treating water). 

It is weird that there wasn't more focus on German reunification or the dismantling of the Soviet Union, which was a big deal at the time.  Then again, this is a series that went through a whole season with the 1980s and Margaret Thatcher without once mentioning Ronald Reagan.

[Conotocarious]

1 hour ago, leighdear said:

According to her interview in VOGUE, she worked with a voice coach and tapes for several months. 

The preparation certainly shows. I am doing a rewatch and it’s just uncanny. 

[cpcathy]

1 hour ago, jschoolgirl said:

The actress who plays the Queen Mother takes me out of the scene every time.

This. Some of the casting seems like it was rushed, like someone just pointed to headshots and just went, “Fine, uhhh, this one…”

[katha]

9 hours ago, monakane said:

This is my least favorite season.  I hate the way they are portraying the queen like she is a wishy washy door mat.  I don't believe for 1 second that the queen was anyone's door mat.  My favorite Elizabeth is Claire Foy and Olivia Colman captures her well also.  The center of the show should be Elizabeth and she felt like a supporting player.  I also did not care about the couples in the divorce episode.  They could have used that time on other story lines.  I hope the final season is an improvement.

Agree that they overdid it and focused too much on the Wales trainwreck, but I get what they were going for. Diana was largely overshadowing the BRF, including the Queen, during the 90ies. And tbh the more critical look at Elizabeth in particular during that time seems also warranted. She was always very, very conservative and unwilling to change things, and by the 90ies it had calcified into this stiff-upper-lip persona that seemed very out of touch compared to Diana. I'm sure she's in for a character arc next season where she regains her footing. And the tension of how much is Elizabeth in particular merging into the institution and losing herself in it has always been a central theme of the show. I think Morgan wanted to show that at that point in time, the pendulum had swung too far. 

I think a lot of this was clumsily done, but I got the narrative intent and it worked for me some of the time. 

[BloomsburyRez]

10 hours ago, swanpride said:

In addition, while I enjoyed the symbolism with the ship, considering that it was never mentioned before in any other season, it was a little bit clunky that this is now supposedly an oh so important place.

It was shown in the first three episodes of season two. Phillip uses it on his tour, then the Queen joins him onboard when it arrives in Lisbon. 

[MsMalin]

Sorry but I am on the side of not liking the actress who played Diana at all. She lacked the charisma of the real.Diana. And I know she can't help it but she was way too tall. The hair and the eyes were excellent but just because she could nod her head down and look up through her eyes that doesn't mean she is doing a good impression.

The Queen  mother always seemed jolly to me. This one missed the mark and was too thin.

I thought all others did a good job, especially Camilla. I didn't think I would like Dominic West but I think he did a good job. Felt sorry for William if that portrayal was true to life.

Was very surprised that was the last episode.

[truthful]

A silver lining for Major, who now having lost the election, can fully concentrate on his true calling in life: as a marriage counsellor.

I really enjoyed this season compared to last season. I thought it was a lot more complex, and I found the portrayal of Diana much layered and more dimensional. 

[TOL]

17 hours ago, jschoolgirl said:

The actress who plays the Queen Mother takes me out of the scene every time.

YES!  She was horribly miscast. In looks, she was more similar to Queen Mary (her mother-in-law) that the Queen Mum.  Surely there was someone more plump and less doddering they could have cast

[Roseanna]

2 hours ago, truthful said:

A silver lining for Major, who now having lost the election, can fully concentrate on his true calling in life: as a marriage counsellor.

I hope he will have time to his family. His only fault seems to have that he took an extra job although his children longed for him. 

I admire how gracious he was towards Blair after he had lost the election I guess that, unlike Thatcher, politics wasn't his only life.

[Straycat80]

Not my favorite season, I did enjoy it though. I think it was the casting. The queen mother was the worst, couldn’t they have found an actress who at least resembled her a little? She was not a scrawny bird of a woman. I was ok with the queen and Diana, although it was almost comical how the actress towered over everyone, she was so tall. 
Nice build up to  Dodi and Diana for the next season which I can’t wait for. 

[Oosala]

I was surprised to see Charles working so hard to get the queen to abdicate.  It was a story line in more than one episode.  If that part was true, Charles was a real prick.  The actress playing Camilla was too attractive.  The hair was right (easy to do that), but the real Camilla's face was very weather-worn and horsey even at that age.  I hate Camilla.

The actress playing Blair's wife was a good fit.  I saw her display Cheri's fugly smile/grimace a couple of times.  So with the change in prime minister, we must now say goodbye to John "Sick Boy" Major.  Johnny, we hardly knew ye.

[txhorns79]

27 minutes ago, Oosala said:

So with the change in prime minister, we must now say goodbye to John "Sick Boy" Major.  Johnny, we hardly knew ye.

Maybe it was because last season gave Margaret Thatcher a very heavy focus, but it really did feel like they did very little with Major.  From the show, you'd think that his entire agenda in office was trying to get the Queen a new yacht, while playing divorce court with Diana and Charles.  

[truthful]

1 hour ago, Oosala said:

I was surprised to see Charles working so hard to get the queen to abdicate.  It was a story line in more than one episode.  If that part was true, Charles was a real prick.  The actress playing Camilla was too attractive.  The hair was right (easy to do that), but the real Camilla's face was very weather-worn and horsey even at that age.  I hate Camilla.

The actress playing Blair's wife was a good fit.  I saw her display Cheri's fugly smile/grimace a couple of times.  So with the change in prime minister, we must now say goodbye to John "Sick Boy" Major.  Johnny, we hardly knew ye.

If that abdication part was true then I can't decide if Charles is insanely stupid or stupidly insane. And as much as Charles is a stuffy prick I don't think he's so dimwitted or crazy to go against his own mother. 

[Roseanna]

1 hour ago, truthful said:

If that abdication part was true then I can't decide if Charles is insanely stupid or stupidly insane. And as much as Charles is a stuffy prick I don't think he's so dimwitted or crazy to go against his own mother. 

Becoming the Prince of Wales, Charles vowed loyalty to the Queen, even laying his life for her.

[pasdetrois]

On 11/11/2022 at 3:28 PM, Suzn said:

I should have expected getting called out for an unpopular opinion. 

I'm with you. The voice and pronunciation are excellent, but the tucked chin and big eyes thing was overdone. I also was disappointed in the casting of Charles and others. But I liked Miller's portrayal of Major.

Perhaps one reason Elizabeth loved the yacht was it was her honeymoon suite?

Would Charles really have been forced to sit in business class on a commercial flight? What about security?

[truthful]

1 hour ago, pasdetrois said:

I'm with you. The voice and pronunciation are excellent, but the tucked chin and big eyes thing was overdone. I also was disappointed in the casting of Charles and others. But I liked Miller's portrayal of Major.

Perhaps one reason Elizabeth loved the yacht was it was her honeymoon suite?

Would Charles really have been forced to sit in business class on a commercial flight? What about security?

Apparently he did fly business class to Hong Kong.

https://www.theage.com.au/world/charles-first-class-whine-on-business-class-flight-20060224-ge1ti1.html

Edited November 15, 2022 by truthful

[ahpny]

On 11/12/2022 at 12:18 AM, peridot said:

Charles keeps on being a snake in the grass.  I'm glad this secret meeting with the PM got back to the Queen.  I loved that he was bumped to business class on the plane!

This seemed petty and stupid. But why couldn't Charles simply pay for an upgrade to first class if that was so important to him? I doubt that would have broken the royal bank account, and what of frequent flyer miles, no?

Regarding the royal yacht, it is understandable how emotionally attached the Queen could become to it after 43 years, and of course its decommissioning parallels her own approach toward obsolesce. But it is still jarring that the precious few times we see her betray any emotion at all is for an ostentatious play thing to which almost no one else can relate. She's also shown to be far nicer and warmer to her dogs and horses than to just about any people, including her husband and children. This just isn't relatable and doesn't play well with the commoners. It's another repeat of how hard it is to commiserate with her as one of her many castles burns. She still has many others. Few of us do.    

[truthful]

4 minutes ago, ahpny said:

This seemed petty and stupid. But why couldn't Charles simply pay for an upgrade to first class if that was so important to him? I doubt that would have broken the royal bank account, and what of frequent flyer miles, no?

Regarding the royal yacht, it is understandable how emotionally attached the Queen could become to it after 43 years, and of course its decommissioning parallels her own approach toward obsolesce. But it is still jarring that the precious few times we see her betray any emotion at all is for an ostentatious play thing to which almost no one else can relate. She's also shown to be far nicer and warmer to her dogs and horses than to just about any people, including her husband and children. This just isn't relatable and doesn't play well with the commoners. It's another repeat of how hard it is to commiserate with her as one of her many castles burns. She still has many others. Few of us do.    

I think all the first class seats were fully booked out.